A Voice of Courage w/ Travis Conover

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Speaker 1: There are few things that make people successful. Taking a step forward to change their lives is one successful trait, but it takes some time to get there. How do you move forward to greet the success that awaits you? Welcome to Next Steps Forward with host Chris Meek. Each week, Chris brings on another guest who has successfully taken the next steps forward. Now here is Chris Meek.

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Speaker 2: Hello, I'm Chris Meek, and you've tuned in to this week's episode of Next Steps Forward. As always, it's a pleasure to have you with us. Our special guest today is Travis Conover. Travis is an actor, writer, producer, and director. He began his performance career touring with the Extreme Martial Arts Demonstration Team, Pil Sung under the leadership of Master Adam Grogan. He made his on-screen acting debut co-starring in The Trial of Everett Mann, which won several awards at some of the world's largest film festivals, including the prestigious Cannes Film Festival. Shortly after, Travis booked an acting and producing role in The Penitent Thief, which hit theaters in 2020. During Travis's career, he has written and produced several short and feature films. One of his latest projects, Lions and Lambs, focuses on raising awareness about human trafficking, a topic he is particularly passionate about. Wes Conover, welcome to Next Steps Forward.

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Speaker 3: Thanks for having me, I appreciate it.

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Speaker 2: We've got some notes here and some questions from our producer, but before we start, I gotta learn more about the Extreme Martial Arts Demonstration Team. How'd you get into that, what'd you do?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's actually kind of a funny story. So when I was, I think I just turned 16, or I was about to turn 16, my buddies from high school came to me during lunch, And his name was Jerry. He's one of my best friends at the time. And he was like, hey, we got two free weeks of martial arts. And this guy came up to us, we were in the mall, and he said, hey, here's a flyer, this will get you two free weeks. And I was like, if it's free, it's for me, right? So I'll try it out. And I was a wrestler at the time, and just kind of an athlete overall. So I was like, this should be really fun. And who doesn't like watching karate movies when they're a young kid or whatever? So I took the two free weeks, and literally the first day that we were there, we left and I was like, well, I'm doing this for the rest of my life. Like, this is the greatest thing ever. So we, after the two free weeks, just me and one of my other friends signed up. The other, there was four of us, the other two didn't. And within three months, actually, he was like, okay, this guy's really serious. So I started student teaching, and then I started teaching there within six months. course, just the younger ranks because I was only like a yellow belt at the time. And I think I was, I think by the time I was a red belt, I was teaching full time. I was teaching from ages like four to 74. And I had Master Adam Grogan. This was under Master Ryan Miller at Saratoga Springs, New York. And Master Adam Grogan was at a tournament that I was at. And there was a couple different things. There was forms, there was sparring, weapons, and then board breaking. So I competed in I think everything but weapons, and I won my first two divisions, and it was gets to board breaking. And I was like, I really want to try something that I've never seen anybody do before, because I always like to kind of push the envelope, you know. And my dad was, my dad was, you know, an acrobat. He was on his high school team. He was like a tri-state champion on the rings. So just super athletic. And I was like, I'm going to teach myself how to backflip over a board and then break it on the way down. So because why not? Yeah, because why not? Right? Because we're kind of like that. So I did. So I stood on a chair in my backyard for a day or two. And I just started backflipping off of it. And then got to the place where I could comfortably backflip over something and then chop a board on the way down. So I did. And Master Adam Grogan had started Team Pilsung. He was on a performance team. He's been on performance teams for 15, 20 years already by that time. And he came up to me afterwards and he came up to Master Miller and he was like, do you mind if I train your guy and recruit him to my team? So he offered me a position on the team and then started as one of the newbies, Red Belt. By the time I got to to Black Belt, I became one of the team captains, and we toured the country for a couple of years and just did shows, and yeah, it was a blast.

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Speaker 2: How old were you when you were doing that? If you started at 16, by the time you progressed?

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Speaker 3: Red Belt's about three years away from that, so I was like 18 or 19 by the time I got my Red Belt, and then I think I was 20 when I achieved Black Belt, so.

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Speaker 2: So after flipping off a chair and breaking a board, you didn't want to try out for American Gladiator or anything like that?

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Speaker 3: Well, actually, you know, I was, well. Of course you tried out for it. I would love to be on American Gladiator or American Ninja Warrior. Um, but I, um, you know, really started training in, uh, the fighting aspect of it, which is Olympic style sparring. They actually call it Olympic sparring because it's one of the few fighting styles other than like, you know, boxing and wrestling, which have made it to, uh, the Olympics. So I was training to go to the Olympics, uh, for sparring, but But there was a different plan, you know, and that didn't end up happening. But I was pretty serious about it for a long time. And it would have been cool. But I just don't think ultimately it would have led me to where I am today, which is where I want to be and where I'm happy.

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Speaker 2: All right. So let's get back on track with that master plan or alternative plan into your life here. What inspired you to pursue a career in the film industry? And how'd you get your start?

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Speaker 3: So I've answered this question wrong a few times, I found out. But the Christianese answer, and everybody will find out by the end of the interview that I'm a believer, but the Christianese answers, as I like to call it, is it's my calling from God. And I do believe that. But the reality is, and I start to get choked up just saying it, it's like it is the only place that I feel like I really, truly belong in the world, is creating movies. Seriously. I love it that much. And it's, it's not all I think about, but outside of, you know, God, family, friends, like it is my, it is my, you know, strongest desire to create movies. I don't know how to explain it, but I absolutely love it. And that's really the right answer is like, people ask, like, what, what am I supposed to do? Right? You found what you're supposed to do? What am I supposed to do? I'm like, what is it that keeps you up at night? What do you feel like you have to do? So I just I feel like I have to do it. I can't get away from it. And every time I try to quit, I can't, so.

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Speaker 2: You're obviously very blessed. And my listeners and viewers know I'm a huge country fan. And Brian Luke has a verse in his song, do what you love and call it work. And so you seem to be one of those blessed people. So congratulations. I love this job here. So I think I'm blessed as well. So I think we're a couple of lucky guys. Yeah, I agree. So Travis, we hear so many stories about actors, writers and directors who were on their very brink of giving up when they got their big break or something similar happened. Have you had a pivotal moment in your career that either kept you in the business or changed your course in the industry?

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Speaker 3: The first part of that question, you said they end up giving up right before they get a big break? Right. Yeah, man. I've tried to give up before too. Had those moments where it was like, the pain that I'm enduring is not worth it because if you're not in the entertainment industry, you just really can't get it, you know, unless you do maybe something similar, but this is the hardest field, or certainly has been for the last several decades. It's the hardest field to actually go into, and unless you just get super lucky, and some of these guys do, right? The Will Smiths and some of these guys get so lucky with their break where it just comes along. My good friend, Mark D'Alessandro, he's one of the most legendary stuntmen of all time. He was Sylvester Stallone's guy for 40 years, he was his main guy, and for 37 years or so. But he was a football player, so he was really in great shape, you know, looked just like Stallone did, kind of in his prime. And he gets in an elevator with him. And Stallone's looking at him. He's like, you kind of look like me. You ever do stunts before? And he's like, oh, I'm just a college football player. Maybe that'd be fun. So he brings him on. The guy becomes Rambo, and he becomes Demolition Man, and The Specialist, and all these major movies that Stallone was in. Cliffhanger, he is the guy that does all of the crazy stunts. So, you know, that's one of those things where you can't really make that up. It just was just meant to be in that moment. So my career has not been like that. You know, looking back on it, it probably shouldn't be this way, but I have fought tooth and nail for everything. And I have been rejected so many times that I've had every right and excuse to give up. And I just, like I said, I just couldn't, I just couldn't get myself to do it. I would have days where it was like, why is this all not working out? Like, I know I'm supposed to be here. I know this is what I'm the best at. I know this is what I feel 100% aligned with. Why is it so darn hard? And I think the answer is timing. You know, God's timing is better than my timing. But yeah, I've almost quit a couple of times, you know.

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Speaker 2: Well, you mentioned a moment ago about being rejected so many times. How do you deal with that? You know, is it a personal inflection? Is it a gut check? Is it a, you look for the higher calling of God? Is it all of the above, none of the above?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, good question. I would say it's kind of all of the above. You know, there's been a lot of times where I just, just want to fall apart, you know, and I have to, like, genuinely take a step back and look at the reality of the situation. Because you always want things to go faster, right? I feel like that's kind of the human condition is like, even if things are moving along at a decent clip, like, man, if I could just be this, or if I could just be there, or if I could just make this much money or whatever. So I found a couple things, I found the only way to actually truly be disappointed with something is if you set an expectation. And so it's really just coming back to like, okay, if I'm called to do this and it's what I know that God told me that I'm supposed to do, then why am I trying to force my own expectations and my own plans on a bigger plan? So, the thing that I've gotten really good at more recently, and it took a decade to do this, to learn how to do this, is to take my expectations off it, and just say, hey, not my will, but yours, and see where that takes me. And it seems like when I take my foot off the gas, everything just starts falling into place. I don't know why or how that is, but that just seems to be, you know, what it is. But rejection is one of the hardest things for people to deal with. And, you know, especially when you feel like you're being rejected by God, right? It's like the being that created me is saying it's not your time right now. And that hurts, that hurts your feelings if you can't see from the other perspective. So yeah, it's been really tough and it's been a challenge. There's been a lot of times that I've just sat there, you know, a big pile of mush crying like, man, this is never going to happen. And, uh, there's always something there to pick me up. So I'm just grateful for that.

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Speaker 2: No, no. I appreciate sharing that cause I'm sure it's not easy to kind of relive some of those challenging or difficult moments. And you know, the show, one of the things we focus on is, is that empowerment. And I love the phrase you just said, not my will, but yours. Yeah. Everyone's going through struggles. Everyone's got their challenges. Everyone's got life. Certainly in a post-COVID world, we're trying to figure out what life looks like, and so I think that's a very simple phrase, but a very concrete, direct, solid phrase for people to listen to, to swallow, engulf, and live by. So thank you for sharing that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, it's true.

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Speaker 2: Travis, who were some of your mentors or influences when you were starting out, and even today, and how they impact your career?

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Speaker 4: Wow.

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Speaker 3: That's a big one. Influences I can definitely, and mentors I can give you too. So I would say, obviously as a martial artist, I had a couple masters that were like really impactful, a couple of teachers. You know, I mentioned their names, Master Brian Miller, Master Adam Grogan. They were really huge, like in my development as a person before I jumped into the entertainment career. When I was a teenager, honestly, I was such a different person that if you put us side by side, you would not be able to recognize him. As a teenager, I was really hurt inside, and I used the anger and the frustration to hurt other people, and that's kind of the cycle of abuse. That's kind of how it happens. I'm not saying I was abused, but my parents split when I was really young, and one parent believed X and the other parent believed Y, and it was just such a difference of lifestyles that I was like, which way do I go, right? It was like, I'm literally being torn down the middle. Again, that's not their fault. They actually really loved me and both cared for me the best that they knew how, but they just had really different worldviews. So it was kind of like, I felt like I was two different people. And of course, that's gonna make you not like yourself because you don't even know who you are. So that's kind of where I was at. So I had this really high false bravado and I was, you know, it didn't help that I was really athletic and worked out super hard. So I was in great shape and I was, you know, had all my hair back then, I was handsome and, you know.

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Speaker 2: I have the good old days, I'm with you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. So I could, you know, I could kind of use my looks and my charm as a weapon and it was really destructive. and God has humbled me so much in that area. And I've just really changed. Now it's like, I wanna serve people, I wanna bless them, I wanna impact them with great stories, you know? And I'm trying to remember the original question, but what was the original question?

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Speaker 2: No, that's all right. That's fine, because I wanna go on if that's all right. You know, did you have the same faith you do today, back at that point when you were torn and you see, I won't say troubled, but using things to your advantage in terms of your personal traits?

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Speaker 3: Yes and no. So, like I said, one parent was kind of living a Christian lifestyle, one was not, was choosing a different lifestyle. And I knew what I believed to be true. But it was really hard to follow. And that was probably the biggest struggle in my childhood and teen years was like, do I follow this God that I know is real, but is making me have self-control and self-discipline and all these things? Oh, that was your question. It was my mentors. So yeah, I was really torn up. So yeah, it was really tough. I knew it was right, but I just couldn't get myself to do it most of the time, you know, it's just really hurting. And that just led to confusion and it was really tough. But yeah, my martial arts instructors were great mentors. And then as I got into the film industry, all of that was taken away from me, you know, because I moved to a different location and obviously quit all the things that I was doing and sold. I actually had a martial arts studio that I was running from like 22 to 25, we were the became the biggest in town, like immediately, I ended up about to start buying all the other schools in town. And then this film opportunity came up. And I'm like, this is what I've been wanting to do for 25 years, like I have to just if I don't do it now, it's never gonna happen. Right. So I sold my school to somebody who I was about to buy their school from them and just eat up every school in town and become number one and sold my school and just moved down to New York City and just went all in. And I kind of lost all my mentors. I lost my, my support system for the most part. You know, I had a little bit of family down in Jersey, but, um, and, and they definitely supported me, but it was different. And, uh, that I think really made me lean on God the most. And it actually, that where I was the loneliest and when I was going through the most rejection and the hardest struggle was definitely where I became, my faith became rooted and the strongest it's ever been by far.

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Speaker 2: Between acting, writing, producing, and directing, you obviously wear so many different hats and have so many responsibilities. Let's start with acting. Was acting the first step you took in the profession? And please tell us about that first role.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, acting is definitely my first love. That's where I cut my teeth in the entertainment industry. Maybe for a follow-up, I'll go into a lot more of the story, but it's definitely how I started. It's definitely where I just saw myself. I was like, well, I'm just going to be an actor, but I went down to New York City on my way down. I mean, this is so cool how everything worked out, but on my way down to New York City, I was in great shape. I was third-degree black belt. I was teaching Taekwondo all the time. I was literally on the mat six hours a day. And I was mid-20s, you know, I was kind of prime time. And I sell my school pack up, moving down to New Jersey and knowing that I'm gonna have to audition in New York City to really start becoming an actor. And I just went all in. And on my way down, I had everything I owned in a car, which was very little at the time because I kind of got rid of everything. And so I was driving down to New York City, and I get a call from one of my student's parents, and her name was Elizabeth. She was like, hey, I know you don't know this because we don't talk about it, but I'm actually a producer for Bruce Weber, who's this major fashion director. And New York City is like the fashion capital of the world, right? So he's got a major office in the Meatpacking District, which is a really nice area of New York City. And he wants you to come see him because he needs a martial artist for Ralph Lauren's spring collection. I'm like, what? So I went from zero to 60 on day one. It was really, really cool. So that was like, that was a modeling role. And I did some martial arts with some like world-class models and stuff like that. And it was kind of weird because you go down, you know, I lived in upstate New York. And when I went down to New York city and I started working with these like very high-end models from all over the world. All of the women were the same height as me or taller. I'm like, what? And all the guys were like 6'4". You know, I'm like, what is going on? I don't really like this. But it was fun. It was really exciting. So the first thing I ever did was actually modeling outside of just like a couple little martial arts short films that my team did. But the first like real paid gig was with Ralph Lauren's spring collection. So that was really massive leap forward, you know, and then I started auditioning for some acting roles, ended up landing some stunt roles cause they saw clearly my martial arts pedigree was really, really lended itself to fight choreography and stunts. So I ended up doing a bunch of that cause I'd already done it in live shows. I could easily do it on camera. Camera's way easier than live shows. So the first time, and you mentioned this earlier, The first time that I felt like, okay, I'm really an actor now was in the trial of Everett Mann. And that was directed by Mike St. Gerard, incredible missionary actually. And the movie is a play, the words, it's a play of words on the trial of every man. It's basically every man's journey of kind of being locked in a jail cell of their own desires. And then when they realized that they're a mess, kind of breaking free from that jail cell through the blood of Jesus Christ, right? So that's, it's really an analogous to the Bible. And it was such a big role, but I was on set in the White Hand Prison in Pennsylvania for like three or four days and getting the hotel and having people come pick me up. And I was like, all right, I'm really an actor now. This is cool. So it was really fun.

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Speaker 2: So I want to go back to your fashion show with Ralph Lauren. Okay. I'm having a hard time envisioning you in a pink polo shirt with your collar up breaking some boards. What did they have you do for the fashion show?

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Speaker 3: So what I ended up doing was Bruce Weber does these themes, right? So he kind of like makes these like mini stories in the commercials that he does. So the commercial was kind of a day out with the cool kids, right? Because all the cool kids wear Ralph Lauren clothing, of course. So that's according to them. According to them, exactly. Yeah. So what I was doing was I was kind of like their martial arts instructor. So I wasn't wearing the pink polo or anything. I was actually in a uniform or a gi or a dobok, whatever you want to call it. So I was actually in uniform for most of it. And I ended up wearing a couple outfits from Ralph Lauren, but it was really more just me being, you know, a decent looking martial artist.

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Speaker 2: Did your gi have the horse on the left pocket?

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Speaker 3: No. Okay, good. Good answer. Actually, I said Team Kill Song, and I don't remember. It might've been blank. I'm trying to remember. It was a long time ago now, like 10 years ago.

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Speaker 2: How do you typically prepare for a role? Do you have a lot of time to learn your lines and get in your character's head?

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Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. So live shows are obviously very different live shows. You have to know your lines inside out front to back, you know in your sleep and There's a couple different ways to memorize lines But it is a muscle. So just like you can go to the gym and get stronger biceps if you do curls You can learn and practice memorizing lines but the key is for a movie is really understanding the story. So even if I forget exactly how a line is said, but the heart of that line or the spirit of that line is still comes through, I end up changing a lot of the scripts that I get, not out of dishonor to the story, but just to make them fit who I am a little bit. So I changed the wording a little bit, changed kind of the flow of how it's said, but the spirit of it stays the same, if that makes sense. But it is a muscle. You just learn how to get better at memorizing and it just happens.

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Speaker 2: It's interesting. I never thought about, to your point, make it the spirit of who you are. So it's your words, not the writer's words. And is that common for other actors to do?

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Speaker 3: I would say the more you develop your acting chops, the more it becomes common. If you're kind of in those novice productions with newer actors, they try to say the line's exact. And, you know, they're really studying really hard and doing their, they call it homework, like acting homework on each thing. And they're just, you know, they're trying to show up and be the best they can, which is, you should, right? I agree with excellence every time. But as you really develop your chops and you become comfortable in your skin and you develop like kind of like a language and a brand, that perfectionist view kind of goes away and you start to just be like, okay, this is what they're expecting me to be because it's who they hired, right? And they know who I am at this point. And I'm just gonna show up like I've been there before and crush it, you know, that's kind of my mentality now. I don't get nervous, I don't think, I don't overthink it. I memorize the lines and then I have fun and I play with them, you know, that's kind of how it works for me.

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Speaker 2: Just crush it, it's a new t-shirt slogan.

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Speaker 3: That's it, man.

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Speaker 2: What has been the most challenging role you've played so far, and what made it so challenging?

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Speaker 3: Definitely the Jesus character in Trial of Everman. It was my first film. Funny story, you know, God bless him. Mike Girard is an awesome, awesome guy. He was actually a really talented actor too, and director, but he's a missionary by trade right now. But he just really felt called to make this movie. And he's like, man, you're too young for this character and you're, you know, you just, you're not really what I envisioned, but every time I pray about it, you're the guy. And I'm like, well, you don't have to hire me, you know, but if I'm the wrong guy, then I'm the wrong guy. He's like, you're not though. You're the right guy, even though you're just not what I expected. I'm like, okay, that's, that's fine. You know, so it was my first, like, like I said, it was my first real serious role. And about halfway through, I think it was like day two or three, he was like, I was like asking him, I'm like, hey, you know, I just want to know, are you happy with what I'm delivering? Cause I was, like I said, when you're a newer actor, you're like obsessed with, am I getting this right? Am I ruining the whole movie? And you kind of want that validation. And this is not a knock on Mike, by the way, this is not saying this is what a director should do. And it's not what a director should do. But he was also a new director. And he goes, he goes, Honestly, Travis, you're, you're kind of hard to work with. And, and, you know, I'm a little worried you might ruin the movie. And I'm like, it took me back so so much. I mean, my stomach was in knots for like months. And I'm sure he doesn't know this happened. But I thought I literally had ruined the movie. Because my performance, I'm very subtle on camera or and I certainly was even more subtle in the beginning because on a close-up shot, right, like if you're used to watching theater, an actor is like very demonstrative and they have, you know, these huge motions and everything because people in the back row have to see you. But on camera, when it's here, your face, your eyes and your face tell the whole story. You can be very subtle. And I was very subtle and just eye eye movements and mouth movements. And that was intentional for me. I want to be really grounded. You know, Jesus Christ is, at least my view of him at the time was like, he's super grounded and he's focused and he knows exactly what he's saying. And there's no mistakes coming out of his mouth, you know, that kind of thing. So that's kind of how I was playing it because I was an analogous to the person of Jesus In the movie and I think he he mistook he was not looking at the camera monitor He was looking at me like I was on a stage acting and he's like you're not giving me what what I need For this movie, so I was really hurt by that And he wasn't trying to hurt me, but I just was offended, you know Or I was upset because I thought I ruined the movie So anyway, I finished my performance and there's other things I could tell you in there, but it's not worth it, but He he Messaged me about three months later. He goes. Hey You know, do you have some time to talk? I Said yeah, sure. Give me a call. So it gives me a call. He's like, hey, I edited the edited the film So it's it's totally done and I've been viewing it at a couple different churches that I'm really connected with in my mission business and he's like I'm showing it to the adults and I'm showing it even to like the teens and the younger kids he goes and everybody thinks you're amazing and I was like you know the weight of the world came off my shoulders and I was like okay why you You know, like what happened because you said I ruined your movie and and he was like, man, it's just your performance is so honest. And it's like so truthful. He goes, just watching. He was like, he's like, I cry every time I've seen the movie 100 times I edit it because but we just cry every time. It's like so honest and it's so pure. And I was like, well, that was God because I thought I screwed the whole thing up, you know, but that was definitely my most challenging experience was the hardest character to play because how do you play Jesus? And yeah, I think that was probably the most intense experience that I've had, but it taught me a lot, taught me a lot.

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Speaker 2: You just said, how do you play Jesus? You know, knowing how strong your faith is, how did you do that? How did you come about that saying, how am I going to play this knowing who I think of him?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, man, that was tough. Um, I think, you know, as a believer, I think as a believer, um, the more that you kind of submit yourself to God, the more you become like him. So it was really just a lot of like, I don't want the audience to see me. I want them to see you. And how, how can I do that? You know, just really being honest with them. because that's that's how people should pray if they've never prayed before it's just like just be really honest god already knows anyway but he wants you to say it to him you know he wants you you to know it so i was just like god like i don't want them to see me of course i want this to be a great performance for my career so that people can look at it and say you know he's talented but all at the same time it's really about you and i even was willing to forfeit my spot in the movie for the movie to be served the best, you know, there's Mel Gibson one time gave up the lead role in the movie Gladiator, which as we know is a multiple Academy Award winning movie. And he goes, this role is not for me. He goes, I don't know who it's for right now. But I can tell you, I just don't feel like it's a role for me. Like it's that role for me. And that was, of course, a huge paycheck and a huge opportunity. And he probably would have won another Academy Award with that movie. But he knew that it was designed for someone else. And that's when Russell Crowe stepped in and of course, crushed it, right? So I knew the role was for me, if Mike felt that way. And I felt confirmation from the Lord. And I just said, I don't want to be the one scene, I want you to be seen. And, you know, he, he honored that, even through the hard, the hardship of making it and the doubt and everything that played through my head a a million times, but he just honored that prayer, and I think he made it work, so.

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Speaker 2: Do you prefer challenging roles like that one, or are these ones much more fun?

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Speaker 3: Well, this is gonna sound maybe some way, but it's not meant to be some way. Most of the roles I play right now are not a challenge, because you kind of fall into a type, And if you're getting cast for the right roles, and this is a note to newer actors, if you're getting cast for the right roles, it shouldn't be this super challenging hardship to go do a great job at that role. Now, one thing I will say is, is if somebody tried to cast me for a person that's really scared and timid and, you know, getting bullied and stuff like that, I am so not aligned with that character. probably be really difficult to play. I've never been bullied to someone that I couldn't just head butt, you know, and get them out of my face. So I don't know what that feels like. So that probably be really hard for me. But it also wouldn't be the right role for me. If there's a role that just straight up doesn't work, and doesn't make sense for me, I won't even audition for it. And if somebody wants me to play that role, I probably won't even play it. So there really shouldn't be roles that challenge you to the point where you're going to mess it up, they should really fit who you are, because you want to be as natural as possible. And if you're playing like all these super challenging roles, just to see if you can, you probably can't.

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Speaker 2: As a writer, how do you approach developing a character, and for instance, does your acting experience influence your writing, and what do you find most rewarding about the writing process?

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Speaker 3: Good questions. So there's a saying, I forget who originally said it, but you write what you know. And all of the characters that I put in the movies that I write anyway, all of even the names of the characters are the names of my sons, because you just write what you know. And most of the characters in the movies that I write are based on people that I actually have experience with. So even the villains are people that I know and played a villainous role in my life, or my perception of them was villainous in a way, or, you know, the best villains are actually the ones that think they're the good guy. You know, look at Thanos. He thought he was going to rid the universe of half the people so that everybody else would have abundance and resources and everything, right? So he thought he was actually, I'm doing the right thing. This is the righteous thing to do. So writing characters is actually pretty easy for me because I realized really early on doing it that I just put my best friends in the script. That's amazing. That's what I love.

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Speaker 2: I love that. So Chris the bully or Mike the good guy.

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Speaker 3: Exactly, that's it. That's terrific. Exactly.

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Speaker 2: Is writing something that you do every day And is it even possible to think about writing when in the middle of an acting, producing, or directing gig?

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Speaker 3: All of these, you know, all of these things are muscles. So you just train them, you just train them to be sharp and you learn how to access your creativity much more quickly. And now as I write a script, I see the whole movie playing in my head. I mean, I see every single shot that I want to achieve As I'm writing it, so like I'm literally writing, thinking of how to direct it and thinking of how to produce it all at the same time. It's really fascinating. And I don't know, I know that that's partially a gift and it's something that has been given to me, but I think it's something that can be developed in people as well.

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Speaker 2: Are there screenwriters or films that have influenced your approach to writing the most?

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Speaker 3: Totally, yeah, totally. So growing up, um, my, my father is, uh, he's a pretty macho guy. You know, he was, he always had a super fast tuned motorcycle. Uh, you know, he grew up racing cars and, and motorcycles and he was a bodybuilder and he was just, you know, he was a bad dude, you know, he's just a cool guy. And maybe not in the traditional sense even because he was also a man of God from the time that I Realized, you know that I knew him, you know, two three years old on he was a he was a believer So he was never cursing or drinking or smoking. He wasn't like the Marlboro man but he was a cool cool dude, and he was strong and he was fast and he was fierce and So he was like a superhero to me seriously, so he inspired me to become a lot of who I am today and Because my parents split when I was one or two years old. I was like one and a half I think The people that were like my dad are the ones that I watched so the Stallones and Schwarzenegger and Van Damme and all these guys Were kind of like my surrogate fathers throughout the week so I'm You know born to be an action hero, you know born to kick butt and then of course getting into martial arts Help that quite a bit so, um, I Would say probably some of the most influential movies are like the Rambo series And I think it's kind of funny how I know the real Rambo now, right? I know mark mark D'Alessandro We call him uncle mark. He's amazing guy comes over to my house and hangs out with my boys and But yeah, I would say probably Sylvester Stallone was one of my biggest influences, Jean-Claude Van Damme. These guys inspire a lot of movies. I have a film that I've spoken with some big directors and producers to that really the major inspiration was First Blood. And it goes in a very different direction than First Blood, but yeah, it has a lot of of those undertones and those vibes. And the lead character is very stoic and manly and quiet and, you know, kind of like a Rambo. Yeah, so definitely.

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Speaker 2: I'm picturing Tom Hanks and Mel Gibson, not Rambo and Rocky as your mentors, if you will. So I love that angle. So thank you. Yeah. How do you approach the development of a new story?

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Speaker 3: I'll answer that in just a second. I will tell you Mel Gibson right now is probably my biggest influence. So when I was younger, it was definitely the, the macho eighties action heroes. I'd say Mel Gibson, you know, regardless of his shortcomings, because we all have them and I don't judge anybody based on one or two little things that they've done throughout their life, but Mel Gibson, I'd say is probably the best. Overall package that I've ever seen. He's the best writer, director, actor, probably that's ever lived. And that's my personal opinion, but the dude is on another level. And I really would love to work with them someday anyway

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Speaker 2: So here that mail Travis wants to work with you for listening yes, it's not a call Mel is on this

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Speaker 3: My book is open brother I'd love love to work with them so If you could give me that question one more time, I just wanted to yeah, no, no, I appreciate that

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Speaker 2: How do you approach the development of a new story idea?

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Speaker 3: Hmm Yeah, so I've written probably Half a dozen or more feature films or in a couple TV shows. So I've got a process now where it begins With a spark begins with an idea could be It could be a scene that I saw from a movie And Tarantino does this too. He'll see one scene from a movie where he's like I really like the direction of that one scene and the aesthetic of that one scene and then he built a whole story off of that I Just like Rambo just like one or two scenes from Rambo I'm like that I want to make a whole movie about that right or a whole movie in that direction So it's a spark. It could be a dream that I have it could be something that I've seen already It could be a person that inspires me to tell a whole story right I've written I'm in the process of writing a movie right now now, um, which is about my grandfather, uh, being in the Navy. And, uh, I'm really fascinated with the Japanese culture I have been for, for 20 years. I'm actually learning Japanese right now. My goal is in the next like year or two to be like completely fluent in Japanese. So I just love that culture. So the movie is based on, and this is top secret info, but it's based on my grandfather. the first black ship captain to ever pilot a ship with a white crew in World War II. And it's based on a Japanese girl that my grandfather in real life actually met and fell in love with during World War II. So it's this really awesome like triangle of extremely different people from all over the world, right? You have somebody in the 1940s, who's, you know, dealing with, you know, segregation and all this stuff. And then you have my grandfather who is this really sarcastic, funny, lighthearted, you know, dancing, boxing, drumming, just really fun guy, super charismatic, my grandfather, and he was also just one of the kindest souls I've ever met. And then you have this, this Japanese girl who's has a rich family, but she's rebelling against the rebelling against the kind of social norms in Japan in the 1940s. They're extremely strict and, you know, and they still are, right? The Japanese culture, again, I'm fascinated with it. I think there's so much honor in that culture, but she's kind of rebelling against that and falling in love with this white guy. And so it's a great story and it's an epic and it's a period piece, obviously. So a lot of times people and characters and just little snippets of reality spark this major story.

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Speaker 2: When can we expect to see that?

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Speaker 3: Man, not my will, but his, right? So, could be five, 10 years before that one hits, but it's gonna hit.

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Speaker 2: I just wanna throw it out there. I did some acting in high school, so if we need an extra, you've got my number, just give me a call and we'll get Mel on board and we'll make it a show. 100%, let's do it. Script writing is very different from writing a book and describe for people who may not know how screenplay looks different from a book.

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Speaker 3: So I think the beginnings are kind of similar. At least the way that I write. I am writing a book as well kind of about my life and just about how my experiences shaped who I was or who I am. am. Again, that's like way on the back burner right now, just because all the stuff I'm doing in production. But I just start with an outline. So like, where do I want this story to go? So I think having the beginning in mind, or having the end in mind, I'm sorry, from the beginning, is really important. And in a movie, at least, which is something I'm much more experienced in, is if you have the end in mind and you know where you want to start, and then you know who's going to be involved in that story. So it's really like beginning, end, and who's walking along this journey. The story kind of writes itself, seriously. It's really fascinating, at least for me, and I can't speak for anybody else, but I know for me, if I have a strong outline, the movie and the characters will fill in the blanks in the outline and make it something really, really special. So it really, uh, at this point in my experience in my career, the movies kind of just write themselves, writing a book, man, that's been way more challenging for me. Uh, especially cause it's like auto biographer, uh, I'm not autobiographical. Yeah. Autobiographical. So because it's autobiographical, that is much more difficult. I hate talking about myself. My wife is finding things out that I did, you know, like significant things that I'm finding, she's finding out like years after we've been married. She's like, you never told me that. I'm like, I just don't like talking about myself. You know, so it's tough.

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Speaker 2: That's a challenge. I understand that. So my producer, Eric, as always, has way over done it in terms of my notes. I've only gone through about two of my eight pages, but I want to jump ahead here because we've got about six or seven minutes left to what connected us. And a big issue and a focus for me on the show is anti-human trafficking. Yeah. And I wanna talk about Lions and Lambs if we can. We can. So I know when someone is working on a project as big as a feature film that things can change along the way. And that's certainly been the case with your planned film, Lions and Lambs. And I think the direction you're considering now could have an even greater impact. How did Lions and Lambs start out? What has happened to change its course? And where is it likely headed now?

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Speaker 3: Hmm. Well, I'm going to try to be fairly concise because I'm long-winded if you couldn't tell. You've got seven minutes. Take all the time you need. I like stories, right? So, Lines and Lambs just began, again, as this passion, this spark that was in me of like, This industry, this human trafficking industry is massive, it is divisive. It's evil. It is a multi, multi-billion dollar industry and it's all over America. It is one of the largest coverups in the world. And I will say that with all boldness, it is a cover up. And the reason I say that is because I know for a fact that there are government officials, there are local police, there are movie stars, there are movie producers and directors who are directly involved. There are pastors of churches, right? And it is, it is infiltrated every aspect of our culture and it's evil and it's awful. So as you find these things out, what do you do about it? Right? It's like, wow, okay, that's huge. And it's way bigger than me. So do I just give up and not worry about it? Right. Is that the right answer? So, you know, lions and lambs was, okay, I have a big family. I can't go boots on the ground and go vigilante justice. That's, that's not righteous and right. So I can't do that. Even though, you know, kind of the man in us wants to do that sometimes, or the human in us wants to do that sometimes. So I'm like, okay, what I can do is I can give a voice to these people. maybe through the medium that I understand the most, which is filmmaking. So we started, I made a short film. It started actually, it was going to be an episodic and I was like, let's just make, you know, 10 to 15 minute episodes and we'll make a whole season and then we'll stitch that together and make a film, which would still work. So it was one kind of continuous story that would be, you know, two hours long or so. But then it became something much bigger as I started writing it. And I was like, well, what if we just do a feature film and we crowdfund and just get people galvanized around this subject? Because who wouldn't want to donate to something where we're bringing awareness to human trafficking, right? And this is all before Sound of Freedom came out, by the way. I didn't know if Sound of Freedom existed yet. So long story shorter, I got hacked on my meta account. I had 5,000 friends on Facebook. I had thousands of followers on Instagram. Sex traffickers took over, because I started doing a media tour around it. I started looking for crowdfunding sources and started going on the news, started going on podcasts and doing all this PR. And even I'm on the cover of Voices of Courage, the magazine, and just started getting myself out there and bringing awareness to this thing. And it started rattling these human traffickers, and they hacked my meta account and put child pornography on my meta account. And which is so far from who I am, and it obviously was extremely aggravating. And there's no justice around that. They took my account down, and they would not hear my appeal. I'm like, I'm actively fighting this. Why would I put it on Facebook? Like, that doesn't make any sense. And they completely got rid of all my social media, which of course was their plan, so that I couldn't continue to advertise on social media. And so that didn't scare me as much as it fueled the fire, but I'm like, okay, so my GoFundMe is being, for the movie, is being shadow banned. my social media accounts are being hacked and taken down. And I'm like, we're on the right track because the powers that be don't want this to get out there, right? And you can take that whichever way you want to, I really don't care. But there are people that do not want it to get out there. So I knew we were on the right track, but I also knew I had to take a step back because I would need a couple million dollars to make a movie of that magnitude and to do it real justice, or at least a million dollars. there's a lot of action in it, you know, it's, it's, it's a rescue mission, man. And, uh, so, um, we put it on the back burner for a short time and I was just like, not my will, but yours and, uh, ended up running into a gentleman who owns the largest, um, well, he owns two things. He owns the largest number of beds in the country for trafficking victims to come in and have a safe place to go. And he owns, uh, or he's, uh, privy to a technology that, um, only a few people in the world have, and it can track trafficked, uh, people, uh, a million people at a time, it can track them in real time using, using technology that everybody has in their pocket, right? It's wild. So, and I'm not going to divulge much more than that because I don't think I because I don't think I should, but the stuff that this gentleman has done. So I'm like, okay, if you make a movie like Sound of Freedom which was phenomenal by the way, and I'm not, I have nothing bad to say about that movie because it's great. And it brought a ton of awareness. But instead of just having one movie, why don't we make it an episodic again and we start telling real life stories of how these soldiers are breaking down doors, rescuing these children and beating up the bad guys, but they're real stories. And I think if we did that and we made an episodic where it was, you know, and this costs money, that's why it's on hold right now. But if we made an episodic and released one every month and re-galvanized the world every single month of like, you're still knocking on your door, this is still real. You better do something about it. Our children are being stolen and they're being taken advantage of and all these things and sold for millions of dollars. I think if we just kept reminding the world that these traffickers would start to have no choice but to stop and to get scared and to back down and yeah, that's my thought. So where it's going to go is up to God, but I think that would be a really good place to start.

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Speaker 2: Travis Conover, thank you so much for being with us today. We got connected from Andy Berger and Voices of Courage, and so I really appreciate you bearing this cross. I'm right there with you. I'd love to work more with you on this. So thank you for your time. Truly, truly appreciate it.

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Speaker 3: Thank you for having me. I appreciate you bringing me on, and it was a pleasure.

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Speaker 2: Likewise. I'm Chris Meek. We're out of time. We'll see you next week. Same time, same place. Until then, stay safe and keep taking your next steps forward.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for tuning in to Next Steps Forward. Be sure to join Chris Meek for another great show next Tuesday at 10 a.m. Pacific time and 1 p.m. Eastern time on the Voice America Empowerment Channel. This week, make things happen in your life.