Faith, Prayer and Politics w/ Pastor Lorenzo Sewell

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There are few things that make people successful.

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Taking a step forward to change their lives is one successful trait, but it takes some

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time to get there.

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How do you move forward to greet the success that awaits you?

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Welcome to Next Steps Forward with host Chris Meek.

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Each week, Chris brings on another guest who has successfully taken the next steps forward.

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Now here is Chris Meek.

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Hello, I'm Chris Meek, and you've tuned to this week's episode of Next Steps Forward.

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As always, it's a pleasure to have you with us.

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This is a very special episode because it's the 200th installment of Next Steps Forward,

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and we have a very, very special guest today.

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Pastor Lorenzo Sewell is the senior pastor of the 180 Church in Detroit, Michigan.

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Pastor Sewell was born and raised in Detroit and grew up in a physically and verbally abusive home.

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High school was a challenging time for him as his father went to prison and his younger

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brother was killed.

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Lorenzo became heavily involved in drugs and drug dealing and became a gang leader in East Detroit.

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Needless to say, his life ultimately took a dramatic turn somewhere along the way, and

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that's a story that he will tell far, far more powerfully than I ever could.

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Pastor Lorenzo Sewell, welcome to Next Steps Forward.

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Chris, I'm so holy ghost happy to be here today.

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I am so grateful that Jesus has given me an opportunity to tell my story all for his glory.

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Now we appreciate your time.

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I know how busy you are, and so we're going to grind this out for you, and you got a big

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meeting coming up after this.

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So tell me about the Best Friends gang and people like White Boy Rick and how they and

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your own family's involvement with drugs and gangs influenced your own upbringing.

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Well, my great-grandfather, he was a part of the black mafia.

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He was shot 17 times.

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My uncles and my dad, they're all in prison for murder except for one uncle.

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My dad's side, so my paternal family was filled with murderers, filled with men like

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the Apostle Paul, who quite frankly were doing the wrong things, thinking they were doing

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a good job.

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And that's my story.

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My story was I was mentored by murderers, student of the street.

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I was on the corner of Kilbourne and Queen on the east side of Detroit.

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You mentioned White Boy Rick, you mentioned the Best Friends gang, which the FBI has noted

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is one of the murderous gangs in the very context and construct of American history.

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I was reared and raised during this time.

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I was on the corner of Kilbourne and Queen playing Atari video games, right, before there

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was Xbox, before there was PlayStation, Chris.

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I know you remember Atari, don't you?

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I do.

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I do.

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My receding hairline tells you that.

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Yes, sir.

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Yes, sir.

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And the shots rang out.

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I was 11 years old.

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I'll never forget the first time a gang leader came to me and said we were going to go and

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shoot a man.

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Can you imagine that?

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Can you imagine being a kid, being filled with a context of crime?

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Can you imagine, instead of resolving your conflicts with understanding, you resolve

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your conflicts with guns and not the gospel?

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And Jesus saw fit on April 18, 1999, to reach out to a sinner like me.

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I was illiberated.

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I was out of my mind.

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I was in Daytona Beach and, Chris, somebody prayed for me.

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And when someone prayed for me, I experienced then what I know now as conviction.

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I was convicted by the Holy Spirit.

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I was convicted as it pertains to drug dealing.

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I knew that drug dealing was wrong.

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And as a matter of fact, Chris, I finally found out that what I wanted to do by murdering

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a man who was beating my sister, that I was wrong.

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And that's what Jesus did for me.

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And when he saved me, when he filled me with his spirit, he called me into ministry, called

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me to preach the gospel.

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I want you to imagine this.

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I was a dope dealer on Friday, but I became a hope dealer on Monday.

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And that's what Christ did for me.

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You mentioned April 18, 1999.

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That was when you had your road to Damascus encounter with Christ.

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Now, first, some people in the audience may have heard the biblical story of the apostle

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Paul and the road to Damascus, but may not remember or recognize its importance.

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And others may not be familiar with it at all.

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Would you share the biblical account with us and then share your own road to Damascus

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encounter?

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Yeah.

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You know, Chris, the apostle Paul is the greatest example of someone who proves that Jesus is

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real.

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The apostle Paul, he was a Pharisee of Pharisees.

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He trained up under Gamaliel.

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The apostle Paul was essentially, could have been the next high priest, but the apostle

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Paul was a man who persecuted, literally kidnapped and killed Christians because he believed

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that what they were doing was blasphemy, according to the Old Testament.

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He believed that what they were doing, he was there when the first martyr was murdered,

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Stephen.

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He carried the coats of those that stoned Stephen.

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And it was Stephen that looked up into heaven and he saw Jesus standing at the right hand

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of the father.

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And that had an impression on Paul.

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So it is in my own life.

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I remember my grandmother praying.

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I remember my mother, Chris, when I was coming into the home and liberated on ecstasy and

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acid.

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I remember her anointing my head with oil.

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And I remember feeling like my high came down because I met the most high as it were,

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but I didn't know really what was going on, kind of like the apostle Paul and the Bible

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says in Acts chapter number nine, that as the apostle Paul had letters, because he was

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a lawyer, he had letters to go into persecute any of the Christians that were part of this

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way are part of what we know now is the church of Jesus Christ.

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And on his way there, the Bible says that he, there was a great light that shone in

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that knock him off his beast.

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And he heard a voice and that voice said, Saul, why do you persecute me?

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And he said, who are you Lord?

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And he, Jesus said, it's hard for you to kick against the pricks.

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And that was me.

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It was in Daytona beach.

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I was cutting myself, self mutilation.

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I was on acid, ecstasy, shrooms.

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I was, as it were like a proverbial Paul on my road to Damascus.

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I thought I was doing right, but I was on my way doing wrong.

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And it was a security guard that prayed for me.

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And when you prayed for me, I asked Christ to come into my life.

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And it was a week later, April 18th, 1999, that I got baptized.

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Although I had drugs in my pocket, I got baptized.

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Although I received the gospel and I still was a drug dealer, Chris, I got baptized and

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it was on that same day that I went to my distributor and I told him I was done.

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I thought it was going to take my life, but he didn't.

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He said he respected me.

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And that just shows me how powerful Jesus is and that he's able to take us from the

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gutter most to the uttermost.

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It's amazing that he respected you because most people you hear stories about, you can't

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get out of the gang unless you're in a body bag with a tag on your toe.

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Why do you think this was so different?

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I really believe that Jesus was preparing me then for what I know now.

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I believe that Jesus was preparing me for a life of boldness as it pertains to politics.

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I believe he gave me the boldness to say, like Esther, if I perish, I perish.

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Simply, Chris, it had nothing to do with me.

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It had everything to do with the good Lord and his calling on my life to be able to let

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the good people of Detroit and all those that are in Democratic strongholds, you know, because

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I have had my life threatened since President Trump has come to my church.

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I have had my family threatened.

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I've had threats of my church being bombed.

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I've lost social position.

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So I believe Jesus was preparing me in the calling to him for my calling for him.

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I was going to get to that later in the show, but since you brought it up, let's go right

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for it now.

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You know, we don't talk a lot about politics on the show, sort of three things that we

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don't talk about for a handful of reasons, but you said you've always been Republican

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because you believe in the Bible.

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Explain that to us.

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Always.

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I've always been Republican because I've always believed the Bible.

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I remember when my bishop, Bishop Andrew Jonathan Davis Merritt, he asked me if I voted.

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And it was the first time I was able to vote.

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It was in 2000.

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And I left the church and I went and registered and I voted.

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And I remember praying, Chris, this was not a political stunt.

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This was a spiritual stunt.

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This wasn't me trying to affiliate with a certain group of people.

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It was me trying to affiliate with God.

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I wasn't looking to worship a donkey or elephant.

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I was looking to give glory to the lamb that was slain.

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And in me giving him glory, I've always voted straight ticket Republican for my entire life.

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That's what I've always done.

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So when President Trump came to our church, I looked at it as a prayer moment.

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I looked at it as a moment to lead a leader to Christ.

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I looked at it as a moment not to necessarily lift up a donkey or elephant, but to lift

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up the lamb of God who died for the sins of the world.

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You mentioned you've had your life threatened, your family's life threatened by having President

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Trump there.

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What message were you hoping to convey by hosting Donald Trump and how you balance that

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with the spiritual mission of the church?

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Well, the Bible says that we ought to pray, first of all, for those that are in authority.

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The Bible teaches from the book of Genesis to Revelation that it is a political book.

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But we know that Abraham, he engaged Melchizedek, which was the king of Salem.

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We know that Abraham later on, he engaged Pharaoh.

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So did Isaac.

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So did Jacob.

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So did Isaac was an advisor to Pharaoh.

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We know that the Apostle Paul, when he spoke in the Pauline Epistles, specifically the

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Pastorial Epistles to Timothy, he told his protege, pray first of all for those who are

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in authority so we may lead an honest and a peaceable life unto all godliness with fear

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and meekness because it's God's will that none shall perish, but that all should come

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into the knowledge of the truth.

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My desire in bringing President Trump to the church was simple obedience.

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My desire was to pray over him and to relay the commission that the church needs to get

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back to her rightful position in America and that's influencing politics, that we as the

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church, as body believers, we don't need to take a back seat to politics, but we need

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to be proactive and we need to steer the direction of our country through politics.

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President Trump not only came to your church, but he did so on his birthday weekend, which

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I know was very, very special to you.

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Why was his visit so out of the ordinary and why the timing of his visit speak volumes

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to you?

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Well, because President Barack Obama, he never came to our community specifically.

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Our community is the least of these and we felt like this was the first president since

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Ronald Reagan, to be frank with you, that had come to Detroit.

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It wasn't since Ronald Reagan came during the RNC back in 1980 that there was a presidential

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candidate that came to Detroit.

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There's a difference between being a president and coming to Detroit, but being a presidential

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candidate on your birthday weekend after you were just in court for 34 felonies to come

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to the city of Detroit, it meant that he really cared, it meant that he was genuine

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for him to open up opportunities for me and my church, be it at the RNC and praying all

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over the nation and all over the state to glorify the name of Jesus.

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It just says a lot to him as a person and it says a lot about him as an individual.

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You mentioned earlier that churches with black congregations have historically invited Democratic

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candidates and elected leaders to visit.

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How did the congregation respond to President Trump's visit and were there any challenges

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or conflicts that arose from hosting not just a political candidate, but a Republican?

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Well, we got intimidated, Chris.

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We've had our vote suppressed.

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We've lost social position.

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There are people in my church that has been kicked out of their houses.

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But isn't that Jesus?

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Isn't that what Jesus calls us to?

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Doesn't Jesus call us to that type of sacrifice and serving him and honoring him and loving

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him?

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He calls us to a self-sacrificing Christianity that says, God, I will stand up for you and

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you deserve the glory, the honor, and the praise.

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So yes, we've been kicked at, we've been mocked, we've been spit upon, and people have said

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all types of things to us.

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They threatened us.

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They said they would come by my house and they'd hurt my wife.

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They've said all that.

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But what about Jesus?

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Didn't he bear an old rugged cross for me?

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Wasn't he hung high and stretched wide for me?

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Didn't they beat him beyond recognition?

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So surely I can go through a little bit of political persecution so that people can know

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the spiritual King of Kings and Lord of Lords who went through the most persecution for

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our sins.

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Do you see any irony in the fact that the late Reverend Martin Luther King Jr. is deified

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for his leadership in the civil rights movement, which required him to bend the nation's political

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will, yet pastors are still criticized for being involved in politics?

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Chris, I believe it's the greatest conundrum in Christianity that Dr. Martin Luther King

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had a doctorate in theology and he was political because he was spiritual.

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But you have so many people that when it comes specifically to Republican politics, they're

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demonized.

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But Democrats all over Detroit, they have leaders come from all over the nation, specifically

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Democratic propagandizers that come into our community and try to galvanize poor black

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people to vote Democrat.

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But as soon as a Republican comes, as soon as a white person comes, can you imagine that,

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people getting mad because white people come to church.

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Wow.

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Isn't that amazing?

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Now let's think about that when black people tried to be a part of the Methodist church

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and black people tried to be a part of different churches, we would say, oh, they can't believe

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it's so bad.

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It's so wrong.

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But as soon as in 20, can you imagine that in 2024, a white man comes to a black church

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and now all of a sudden there's something wrong with it?

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I'm actually speechless, which is hard to do for me here, Pastor.

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Maybe as a follow up to having President, well, then candidate Trump, did Vice President

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Harris reach out to you or did President Biden reach out to you to come to your congregation

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and your community?

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We actually reached out to President Biden before President Trump reached out to us because

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President Biden, he was in Detroit for the NCAA annual banquet.

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He was here.

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So we thought it'd be wise for him to come by.

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He never did.

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He never responded.

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VP Harris and people from our community, they reached out to her, but she was too busy at

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a dance party with Beyonce.

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She was too busy hanging out with, you know, Oprah.

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She didn't have time for the least of these.

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She didn't have time for the average people.

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So President Biden chose the rubber chicken dinner at the NCAA versus speaking to your

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congregation?

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Yes.

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We won't go any further into that.

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So you mentioned before the Republican National Convention, which you were invited to speak

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at.

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Were you surprised by that invitation and what were your emotions as you're speaking

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to the delegates, the nation, the world, and what was your message that night?

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Chris, quite frankly, I didn't know what was happening in Milwaukee.

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I was asked by Reverend Al Sharpton's right hand man.

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He asked me, do you want to know if the Republican Party is using you?

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And I said, well, yeah, I want to know.

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He says, well, ask them if you can speak at Milwaukee.

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And that's how the invitation to the RNC happened.

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It happened because, quite frankly, someone thought the Republican Party was using me.

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They didn't know that God was using the Republican Party to lift up the name of Jesus all throughout

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this country and all throughout this land.

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And that was my message at the RNC.

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Chris, it was a speech that I had prepared, but once President Trump got shot, we changed

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the whole speech.

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And I didn't present a speech.

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I preached a sermon.

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And the sermon I preached was Jesus Christ was glorified, that Jesus Christ is the only

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one that can invite a sinner like President Trump, a sinner like you and I, to come to

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the throne of grace.

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I preached a message, a message whereby people would understand it was a millimeter miracle

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that saved President Donald Trump.

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It wasn't by his might nor by his power.

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So that was the message at the RNC.

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And as a matter of fact, I thought I would get arrested because when the name of Jesus

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was lifted up so high in a political context, I didn't know what was going to happen.

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I didn't get approval by man, but I was approved by heaven.

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So to God be the glory.

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You mentioned Donald Trump's critics before, and we know he has many, and note that he's

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been married three times.

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He's an adulterer.

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He's had a civil judgment against him for forcing himself on a woman and been accused

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by multiple women of sexual assault.

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He's been convicted of 34 counts of falsifying business records.

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He's stiffed contractors and filed for bankruptcy six times.

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And I'm often asked, how can evangelicals support such a man for the highest office

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in the country?

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Well, you got to open the Bible.

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You just got to open the Bible.

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If anyone says, why would you support Donald Trump?

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Why would you read King David?

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Why would you read the Psalms?

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Why would you quote, why would you be willing to even read the nativity scene that was recorded

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by a hustler, a tax collector, Matthew?

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Why would you be willing to read two thirds of the New Testament that was written by the

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man that we've already forementioned, the apostle Paul?

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Why would you be willing to read the Torah, Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy,

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knowing that Moses was a murderer?

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If you condemned and criticized President Donald Trump and will not receive him, well,

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just throw the Bible out because the entire book is littered with literature, with people

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that have characters that are compromised.

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The only one that's perfect in the Bible is Jesus.

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Now, you do have people like Daniel and Joseph where the Bible doesn't necessarily say anything

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negative about, but we know that Joseph, he was an arrogant kid.

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I mean, you can just read the text, you know?

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And Daniel was in a context where it was quite frankly, debauchery and lasciviousness in

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the Babylonian empire.

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And also the other empires, the Persian empire.

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So we know that no one is perfect.

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We've all sinned.

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We've all fallen short from the glory of God.

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We're not looking for a pastor-in-chief, we're looking for a commander-in-chief.

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And quite frankly, I'm believing God for President Trump's soul.

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That's what it all comes down to.

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I've had an opportunity to pray with him in secret and openly, probably out of all black

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pastors in this presidential campaign who's in a democratic stronghold, I've had more

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of a forward voice, and I'm believing God for him, Chris.

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I believe that God can save me.

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I believe that God can save President Donald Trump and his entire family.

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You mentioned you don't want a pastor-in-chief, you want a commander-in-chief.

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I love that.

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Where do you expect him to take our country, and especially as it relates to Christian

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values in the next four years and beyond?

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You know, that's a very good question.

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The first thing I want him to do is be the gospel, right?

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We have enough churches, we have enough Bibles, we have enough preachers.

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The church needs to be the church because the church has a bad rap, specifically in

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black communities.

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We need President Donald Trump to allow the church to be a fiduciary, to be essentially

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a conduit to resources as it pertains to HUD, as it pertains to the Community Reinvestment

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Act, and as it pertains to small business administrations.

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We need to make sure that the church becomes what DHS is today, right?

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We want to be the compassion entity and conduit.

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We don't feel like the government should be making those decisions.

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We believe that the church should be the compassion and accountability agent, and that's

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my prayer.

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My prayer is that President Trump will regulate the resources that are already in poor communities,

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and in doing so, he will be able to actually live out the gospel, not just proclaim the

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gospel.

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Do you expect to stay in touch with President Trump or serve as some sort of a special advisor

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to him?

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Well, I've already been in Washington once, and I plan on being in Washington a lot more

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because, quite frankly, he is our president, but he's also our employee, Chris.

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He's our president, but we've got to hold him accountable.

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He's our president.

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How much I love President Donald Trump.

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I'm going to hold him accountable.

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I'm going to hold him accountable for election integrity.

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I'm going to make sure he hears our court cases that we have in the Eastern District

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Court as it pertains to Black people who are saying they never voted.

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I'm going to hold him accountable as it pertains to the regulations, right?

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So I do plan on being an advisor, but Chris, I'm not looking to make friends.

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I'm not going to make change.

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So I know sometimes that comes with a little bit of aggravation, but the president has

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been amazing.

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He has opened up the door to us.

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He has been nothing but inviting to us, but I believe we have a very short window to make

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a lot of change.

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They always say in politics, if you want a friend, buy a dog.

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So I totally understand your perspective on that.

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What role should pastors and faith leaders play in shaping political opinions or guiding

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their congregations on political issues?

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Well, we need to apply the Bible and we need to make sure that good people do good things,

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right?

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We need to make sure that everyone in our congregation, that they're equipped as it

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pertains to politics, who's running locally, who's running gubernatorial offices, who's

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running and we need to make sure that people understand the fiscal matters.

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We need to go back to how our country started.

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You can become a politician.

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You can run for politics.

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The church had to pick you to be in the politics, right?

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And we need to get back to that place.

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We need to get back to the place.

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I'm not saying that America ought to be a theocracy.

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I'm not saying that.

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What I'm saying is local church pastors should be at the table instead of on the menu.

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Because when you're on the menu, somebody made a decision for you.

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But when you're at the table, you make the decisions.

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And I believe that pastors need to be at the table and we need to make sure that our people

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are at the table, that they're equipped to be in city council, to be mayors, to be legislators,

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to be congressmen and women.

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That's where our people in church, that's what needs to happen.

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I believe Christian schools need to be imperative.

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I believe we need to be funding Christian schools, classical learning schools.

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I want to make sure that these schools have pre-K through 12th grade entities and quite

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frankly a pipeline of leaders, right?

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Because I believe we have lost our civic engagement.

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I don't believe most people even know the three branches of government.

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I don't believe people even know how many people are in Congress.

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If you were to just ask the average person, you know, what is a lame duck session?

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I don't believe people would even know.

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And because of that, people are stuck.

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And it behooves pastors to get back to Dr. King and his mantra and his model to use the

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pulpit for political persuasion.

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So we've been discussing politics and religion.

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How do you see the role of the church in modern urban communities, especially a city like

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Detroit?

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Well, the church, first of all, we need to repent.

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The first thing we need to do is tell our community, our community, sorry, sorry for

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being bummed, paid for by the Democratic Party and being not willing to stand up and speak

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truth to power.

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That's number one.

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Number two, we need to stop blaming white people.

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We need to say it's the white man.

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It's the white man.

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It's the white man's fault.

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It's, you know, this nation is systemically racist.

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You know, these things are sad.

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These type of conversations, Chris, are counterproductive and they just aren't true.

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I mean, if America is systemically racist, explain Barack Obama.

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00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:45,720
Explain Tim Scott.

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00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:47,040
Explain Condoleezza Rice.

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00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:48,040
Explain Colin Powell.

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I mean, come on.

427
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Let's explain me.

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Forget it.

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Explain me.

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You know, if Trump is so racist and the Republicans are racist and white people are so racist,

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why does a black kid from the east side of Detroit who's not received one dollar from

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the Trump campaign, and to be honest with you, haven't given a dollar either, let's

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just be honest with you, you know, how would I get the opportunities I get?

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You know, so I think those are the things we need to do.

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We need to be honest with our communities and we need to make sure that our communities

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have options.

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00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:20,040
So Pastor, I know we've got a short show today because you have a very important meeting

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coming up with a congressman from your district.

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00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:24,920
So with that, we have just a few minutes left.

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Take a stand up a conversation with advice or a story that helps our audience feel less

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stressed, more resilient, and become more empowered.

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To all those that are watching, I want to let you know that God loves America and God

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chose you for such a time as this.

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I want to encourage you that regardless if you're a political infant, or you're a political

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pediatrician, or you're a political surgeon, God has a call for you.

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He loves you.

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And if you would be willing in this time to take ownership of this amazing country that

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has sent out missionaries, millions of them all over the world, we've changed the world

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through America, I want you to ask God to rekindle your passion for America, regardless

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of who's in office, Jesus is on the throne, and I want to encourage you that God has called

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you to be his hands and feet for such a time as this.

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One thing I like to pride myself on this show, Pastor, is it's a show of firsts.

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I mentioned to you earlier before the show about Charles Haley eating in a pizza restaurant,

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live with pizza in the neck on his neck.

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I think this might be the first show I've done from a car.

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So thank you for taking the time to meet with us today.

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God bless you, Chris.

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Pastor Lorenzo Siwa, thank you so much for being with us, and I want to wish you a very

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00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:31,520
Merry Christmas and a very happy holiday season, sir.

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00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:34,580
And thank you to our audience, which now includes people in more than 50 countries,

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00:24:34,580 --> 00:24:37,320
for joining us for another episode of Next Steps Forward.

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00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:38,320
I'm Chris Meek.

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00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:42,840
For more details on upcoming shows and guests, please follow me on Facebook at Facebook.com

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00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:47,800
forward slash ChrisMeekPublicFigure, and on X at ChrisMeek underscore USA.

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We'll be back next Tuesday, same time, same place, with another leader from the world

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00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:55,520
of business, politics, public policy, sports, or entertainment.

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Until then, stay safe, and keep taking your next steps forward.

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Thanks for tuning in to Next Steps Forward.

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Be sure to join Chris Meek for another great show next Tuesday at 10 a.m. Pacific Time

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and 1 p.m. Eastern Time on the Voice America Empowerment Channel.

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This week, make things happen in your life.

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I'm Chris Meek.

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I'll see you next time.

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Bye.