Promoting Women's Economic Security w/ Rachel Pearson

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There are few things that make people successful.

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Taking a step forward to change their lives is one successful trait, but it takes some

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time to get there.

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How do you move forward to greet the success that awaits you?

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Welcome to Next Steps Forward with host Chris Meek.

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Each week, Chris brings on another guest who has successfully taken the next steps forward.

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Now here is Chris Meek.

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Hello, I'm Chris Meek, and you've tuned to this week's episode of Next Steps Forward.

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As always, it's a pleasure to have you with us.

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Our special guest today is Rachel Pearson.

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Rachel is the founder and chief executive officer of Engage for Women.

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Engage for Women is a nonprofit organization dedicated to promoting women's economic security

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through bipartisan and common sense solutions.

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What a novel idea, Rachel.

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Rachel has extensive experience in elective politics, providing strategic planning and

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counsel for Fortune 500 companies, leading associations, social impact organizations,

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nonprofits and individuals.

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Her dedication to bringing together members of Congress, senior staff, and corporate leaders

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is widely recognized by both sides of the aisle as unique and constructive.

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And it was that drive for coming together to find common sense solutions that inspired

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her for founding Engage for Women in November of 2018.

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Rachel Pearson, welcome to Next Steps Forward.

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Thank you so much for having me.

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My next step forward was to jump in and do something really, really hard.

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Your music is just to jump in, jump in and do the thing that nobody thinks is possible.

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So there you go.

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But I'm delighted to be here.

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No, really looking forward to our conversation today.

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And before we dive into the weighty issues of economic security, voting trends and bipartisan

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policymaking, let's get to know you.

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You have extensive experience in elective politics, as well as strategic planning and

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counsel for corporations, nonprofits, social impact organizations, and many others.

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Tell us about your career and why you were drawn to elective politics, strategic planning

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and serving the clients that you've served, beginning with your very first foray into

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elective politics and why you're so motivated to do that.

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My very first, I'm going to go one step before my first elective campaign job, my first foray

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to campaign politics, because I worked for a governor of Ohio.

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That was the first time that I, quote unquote, worked for the taxpayer in an official capacity.

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And that was George Voinovich from Ohio, God rest his soul.

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And then I left his office to work on a Senate campaign, which we lost.

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My first campaign was a losing campaign.

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It was then Mike DeWine, who ended up being a senator and is now currently governor of

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Ohio, but he ran for the Senate in an ill-fated campaign against John Glenn.

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And that was my first exercise in campaign politics.

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And I did that and was bitten by a bug.

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Fast forward by a little bit, Mike DeWine ran again.

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He said, come work on my campaign.

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I did.

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He won this time, said, come to Washington with me, or maybe I said to him, I want to

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go to Washington.

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That's probably more what I did.

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And he said, I will take you to Washington.

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So I worked on his Senate staff for a brief period and then left to open a campaign business,

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if you will, campaign election consulting business, officially became part of the swamp.

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So I think that, but it was those two men in Ohio that brought me to Washington that

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sort of launched it all.

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Setting aside Engage for Women for the moment, what have been some of the favorite projects

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or causes and favorite people you've worked with over the years and what ranks them so

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high?

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I'll do sort of one, for one, I'll say a group of people, which is Engage related, but not.

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And that is my favorite people and some of the people that I admire most in the world

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are family caregivers, people that are caring for an aging parent, a sick child, or someone

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in their family who needs their help.

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That strain, both emotionally, financially, physically, I find incredibly admirable.

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Recently, I lost my mom and my dad had been her caregiver and watching that was quite

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something to see.

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And then spending so much time with women that are caregivers.

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To add something, to add a name, if you will, or one or two names, I think top of mind for

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me right now that Engage has been celebrating is the work of Senator Marsha Blackburn and

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Senator Blumenthal from the state of Kentucky who passed the children's, I think it's called

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the COSA bill, which is Kids Online Safety Act, which passed the Senate 91 to three,

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which I think is an accomplishment that cannot be heralded enough in this day and age.

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So I admire Senators Blackburn and Blumenthal for their tenaciousness and building the coalition

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necessary to get that kind of vote in the Senate.

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A former guest and a current Voice of America host, Donna Rice Hughes, was instrumental

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in that legislation.

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So I'm very, very familiar with that.

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So I appreciate you flagging that and raising it.

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I'm honored to do it.

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I'm honored to do it.

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I couldn't help but notice you founded Engage for Women in November of 2018.

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So I'm assuming that was just after that year's general election.

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Was there any significance in that timing?

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I could try to be coy and say no, but that wouldn't be true.

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I, like many people, was a bit unnerved by what was happening in the political world

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around me, what I saw happening in my political family of origin, which is the Republican

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Party.

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And if I can be more specific, the Midwestern Republican Party of George Voinovich and Mike

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DeWine and others.

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So I was trying to find a way to process that constructively.

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And I also, what I had been doing, as you mentioned at the top, doing a lot of convening.

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So those things intersected, the fact that I was really spending a lot of time with Republicans

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and Democrats together very intentionally.

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And so getting the ringside seat to those relationships, which were so respectful, so

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enthusiastic and yet as frustrated as we all feel out in America looking in, those were

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some of the things that prompted it.

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It was either, as I often say, I had to put all my anger somewhere.

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There was also not just anger, there was hope and energy and trying to make things better.

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But there was also a lot of sort of anger and frustration.

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As you've gone through the bipartisanship world, have you done any work with organizations

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like No Labels or others that are trying to find the purple, if you will, in America?

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I have.

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The folks at No Labels, a number of those at the very top in the leadership of No Labels

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are very, very good friends of mine.

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And I have tremendous respect for their courage and also their commitment and love of country.

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I participated in some early No Labels conversations many years from where they have been in sort

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of their evolution in the last year or two.

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Ultimately, it was not the right fit for what I was looking to do, but I am admiring

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of the fact that they coalesced what is actually the same audience in many ways that is the

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engaged audience.

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We just are offering and doing different things, but it taps into the same energy, the same

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frustration, the same group of people, I believe.

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So Nancy Jacobson has been a guest there in the past and a little bit off topic here,

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but just staying with the bipartisan concept, they really pushed hard this year for that

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third party candidate, probably the most they've done since their inception.

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Your own personal view, being in the political arena, why is it so difficult to get that

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third party involved?

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I think we still like our two-party identity in this country in a way.

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We grudgingly like our elephants and our donkeys.

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I mean, we're still relatively young.

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We don't have a long history of mutations of the Whig Party and the Tory parties and

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all of those things.

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I mean, we're mutating a lot right now, I would make the argument, within the Republican

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Party and the Democratic Party.

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That's a very sort of uneducated, unpolitical scientist answer, but I think fundamentally

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it's been a way that we thought about our political activity for such a long time, our

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political engagement, if you will, such as it is.

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I think it's hard to break that.

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And so I think that was part of their challenge.

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And in their defense, the two political parties reared their head at the idea of a third party

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candidate.

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So they poked, as the expression goes, no labels to define job of poking the bear.

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And I would say also to their credit, poked a bear of where power derives.

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And they are not, although I disagree with a third party candidate in some cases, right

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now, I do not disagree with them about many of their frustrations and the role that political

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parties play that's destructive for both of them.

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No, I appreciate that insight.

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What inspired you to focus on bipartisan solutions for women's economic security, especially

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when there's been such a partisan divide since 2018?

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In one of those moments, sort of aha moments, as you hear people have, I was sitting at

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dinner with a pollster and a pollster, and I've been in and around campaign politics

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and in around members of the United States Congress for a long time and said, you know,

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women are the majority, the voting majority in nearly every congressional district in

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this country.

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And I thought, wow, I mean, I knew that, but I thought about it in a totally different

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way.

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And the second evolutionary thought, at least for me at that dinner, was I looked across

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at the women at the table that were part of a small conversation.

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I thought, why is it that I don't look at you and feel like we're the majority?

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Why is it that I don't look at you and feel like, okay, we've got this, like we're going

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to decide, like we can have control over the agenda, we can help prioritize the agenda.

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And I thought, I don't feel that at all looking at other women.

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So when I realized that, and I realized our elective power, then as Engage has trademarked,

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that led to the trademark of the phrase that women outnumber, outvote, and outlive men,

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which is very central to the way that I try and think about coalescing us as the majority,

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which I think needed some reframing and needed a little rebranding, if you will.

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How do you define economic security for women, and is it all different from economic security

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for men and couples?

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Yes and no.

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I mean, as I always say, a woman's economic security, oftentimes she's responsible for

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the economic security of her husband, if she's the primary breadwinner.

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She's responsible for the economic security of her children, if she's a solo mom or a

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divorced mom or a single mom, or she's caregiving and paying for some of the healthcare bills

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of her parents.

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So they're impossible to separate, but I do believe that the challenges to women in the

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workforce do have some unique aspects that obviously men do not have.

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And I also am always very clear to say there is no women's economic security without some

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very good men.

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And I also want to just say as well that I'm very careful to make the point that men can

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legislate very responsible economic security for women.

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They may not do it as much as I would like, but this idea that men can't pass responsible

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policy for women or that they've never done that is absurd.

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But there are some unique experiences that women have economically that I think deserve

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us looking at our issues on our own.

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Before I forget, where can people find you?

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Engagewomen.org.

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And I am Rachel at Engagewomen.org.

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Thank you.

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Issues these days tend to be pigeonholed into women's issues and men's issues.

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What if the case of economic security for women is not just a women's issue?

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Well, it's a pure economic engine issue for the United States.

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For instance, women are a very large percentage of people in creating and building small businesses.

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Small business, as you know, is what is it?

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It makes up, I was looking at some figures last night, it makes up 44% of our national

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economy.

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And women, I often say, are entrepreneurial either by design or necessity, by desire,

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because they've got the urge or out of necessity because they've got to survive and figure

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out a way to do it.

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So we are part of the workforce in every way.

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When we leave the workforce, there are great challenges to the American economic engine

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working as we saw during COVID.

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So you cannot take us out of the equation at any level because we fuel it.

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I mean, we're equal partners in workforce and generating the American economy and making

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it grow.

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As we think about economic security, we also have to look at the other side of the coin.

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What factors lead women to economic insecurity that may not or do not affect men as profoundly?

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Well, I think the biggest thing is that it's not every woman's story, but it is the majority

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of women's story.

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And that is that women end up being the mothers and the wives and the caregivers quite often.

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And so one of the things that makes Engage unique is that we talk about the economic

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threat of a woman's life and it should be obvious, but particularly in the nonprofit

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and public policy world where things get so siloed, which I understand because it's

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difficult to do everything and you have to be very focused to be successful.

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But one thing leads to another.

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I mean, that young girl, when she takes her first breath, if she doesn't have food, if

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she doesn't have an education, if she doesn't have an emotionally stable home, if she doesn't

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have love, all of that is going to affect her ability to go to her next stage of development.

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And when you see this over and over, I mean, you see it over and over, one thing leads

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to the next thing.

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And the data, if a woman can't read by the time she's in sixth grade, her education is

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significantly off track in the beginning.

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If a woman, if a young girl, young lady has not received her high school diploma, she's

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automatically in a very tougher position to accrue wealth over the course of her life.

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And we see this crescendo, if we think about the thread holistically, she then may leave

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the workforce to have her children, her marriage, if she has one, God willing, will be successful.

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But 50% of marriages in this country end in divorce.

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It may not be successful, in which case women never do well in divorce.

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She may be a single mom who's decided to blaze that trail for herself.

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She may just be a single woman who ends up in her 40s when she should accumulate her

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highest degree of wealth, ending up having to leave the workforce to take care of her

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parents.

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So all of this, the threat of a woman's economic life is the succession, the successive steps

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that a woman lives that affect her ability to accrue wealth and ultimately have what

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I would hope for everybody and for women in this case is a dignified retirement.

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And it's also why it's important early on, as I said earlier, as I mentioned, that women

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outlive men.

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They can outlive men quite significantly, which means that they are responsible in many

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cases for their own retirement.

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We have 46% of black women in this country which retire to poverty.

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I think the number is 20, I think it's something like 25% of people in this country live solely

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on social security.

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That makes having a dignified retirement pretty darn hard.

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But it's engaged, seeks to be a new voice in the conversation, not so new anymore, hopefully

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established voice that's reminding everyone that these things are interconnected, which

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is obvious, but it gets, you get so siloed in your work to remember that one impacts

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the other.

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In what ways does the gender wealth gap, not just wage gap, influence women's long-term

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economic stability compared to men?

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I think that it does tremendously and I think that I am not an economist to debate it.

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There is clearly a gender gap, but in many ways less reported is that the gender gap

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is equaled in some ways as well too for people starting out.

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The big challenge is when women leave the workforce to have children and that we just

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don't have easy solutions for that.

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So two people now can enter the workforce, a young man and a young woman can enter the

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workforce and so much work has been done.

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It's not perfect, but more often than not, they are often paid the same wage.

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And they're accumulating, accumulating and doing well.

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And then the first big moment happens, which is the woman has that baby and has to be a

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mom and decide what she's going to do and then the burden of childcare costs and everything

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else enter into play.

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So they have to make those family decisions and that then is where the separation and

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the wealth gap really, really happens is when women start to make decisions about if they're

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going to have a family and what responsibilities are incumbent upon them in that choice.

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As you note on your website, the American economy is changing rapidly because of automation,

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the expansion of the gig economy, trade disruption, and the growth of the information economy.

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Those forces must affect different women, millennial women, self-employed, women about

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to retire, women just joining the workforce in many different ways.

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Is economic security for women different depending on their age?

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Sure.

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I mean, I mean, obviously, yes, a woman starting out would have no nest egg.

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A woman, an older American, an older American woman may decide that she wants to be in the

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workforce for mental stimulation.

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She may be prepared for retirement or she may have some for retirement, but she wants

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a little bit more for retirement to do some things she wants to do.

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So naturally, you would just have to say that it's different, it can be different depending

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on how much work time is put in.

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To the earlier point about automation and AI, I'm like everybody worried and a bit unnerved

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about seeing a lot of jobs, particularly in the retail industry and in other ways that

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are being in sectors like that, that were perhaps minimum wage jobs are slightly above,

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but where people are being replaced, if you will, that's probably too well.

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Some people would think that's exactly the right word, others might take issue with it.

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But there's a segment of the population that was able to survive and make a living in those

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jobs seem to be disappearing.

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And I'm very, very worried about that.

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Engage for Women has four goals or priorities.

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Let's take them one at a time.

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The first of that mission is, quote, to provide all American women, regardless of race, religion,

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or gender identity, with the keys to economic security.

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What are the keys to lifelong economic security and how can you ensure that women attain them?

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Well, that sounds very lofty that we say that and a bit self-grandizing.

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So let me, some of that is, if you will, trying to inspire people, but to answer the

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question succinctly, what Engage works very hard to do at this moment and the nonprofit's

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life is to advocate for issues and legislation and educate around issues and legislation

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that will help women achieve their economic security, whether that's the responsible paid

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family leave legislation, whether that's the responsible childcare legislation, but

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to talk about how these are the priority of American working women and we need to come

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up with solutions to help them navigate the challenges in their life to reach economic

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security.

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And the second, Engage for Women seeks, quote, to be a new women's movement which mobilizes

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elected, nonprofit, and corporate leaders to address economic security.

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Is there any part of past women's movements on which Engage for Women can build upon?

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Oh, sure.

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I mean, I think there are things that inherently women like to do together.

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I think there are things men like to do together.

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That's not a one and not the other.

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I think that when during COVID particularly, when I would meet a bunch of women on a screen

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who I'd never met before and they'd never necessarily even met each other before, you

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would say things like childcare or caregiving and you might as well have had fireworks go

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off.

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I mean, just in the sheer joy of having that commonality of experience, being able to talk

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about that commonality of experience with people that really understood it.

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So I do think there are unique challenges in women's lives that we like to talk to each

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other about.

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We feel connected.

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They know our struggle.

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We know their struggle, that sort of thing.

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And women are mighty when they set their mind to something and that can be learned.

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I mean, obviously, Engage is a bit different in some things that we don't do, which you'll

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probably ask about, but generally speaking, a bunch of women together in a room if they're

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single-minded or share a goal is a pretty amazing force.

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Why haven't existing women's movements addressed issues related to economic security and how

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is Engage Women filling that gap?

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I think, and again, this is going to be very clear to everybody that's listening or reads

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this, is that this is not the only reason, but I think it is a reason.

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I think many women's organizations organizationally came together.

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Their mission was around issues of reproductive rights and right-to-life issues.

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And that historically was a fight that needed to happen.

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We're still in that fight, obviously.

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But that was a fight that was the core, if you will, the kernel of why women were coming

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together.

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And that's a different conversation than women's economic security.

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And so because thoughtful women can disagree on their positions on that subject, we have

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never really felt our full majority power.

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That's why the big thing that makes Engage unique in many ways initially in our founding

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was that we decided that we were going to take those off the table of conversation,

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stepping, reproductive rights, right-to-life positions, and judicial nominations, which

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in hindsight, with this being the first presidential election post-Dobbs, I wonder if I would have

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done exactly the same thing, but I absolutely would have.

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Because if women are 51% in the room, if they automatically take their sides on that issue,

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you're in the 25, 26 range, and you never collectively come together to feel your power.

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And you're also made to feel initially if that is the first thing that you organize

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around that you don't have commonality, when we know by all polling, and it's a lived experience

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for me with founding Engage, that 98, 99% of women, when their heads hit the pillow

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at the end of the day, are worried about their economic health and the economic health of

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their families.

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But I also want to say very clearly on something that even I may hold as the single most important

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factor to vote on this year, whether I do or not, the point that I want to make is there

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are multiple organizations on both sides of the issue where you can participate and activate

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and be engaged in.

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And those are organizations that are remarkably successful and in that fight.

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In fact, it is nine, what is it, nine cents, 90 cents of every dollar goes to reproductive

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rights in this country, which is pretty remarkable if you think about it.

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If women's causes are underfunded generally, and then 90 cents out of that dollar is going

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to reproductive rights, they have cornered the market, if you will, and again, for reasons

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that are incredibly important and still are to numerous, numerous women.

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But the point in this, just in it, is we'll never feel our majority of our 51 or 52%.

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The other side of that is how we agree on 98%, let's say, of everything when we're collectively

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together unless we decide that potentially we may have to agree to disagree on that.

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So it's not that simple.

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Not that simple.

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Not that simple.

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But, you know, I say it with love, you can belong to two organizations at one time.

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I mean, you can learn from Engage, you can learn about bipartisan legislation, you can

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get informed, you can participate in our events, watch us, use us as a barometer, and

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you can also belong to Right to Life or you can belong to Planned Parenthood.

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I mean, those things, one does not exclude the other in my mind.

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The third pillar, and we talked about this somewhat with the first priority, Engage promotes

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the pillars of economic security, lifelong education, health and workforce, generational

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caregiving, and financial prosperity.

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We are guided by inclusion, innovation, and inquiry.

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What strategies are you using to ensure that this movement is inclusive of women from different

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socioeconomic, racial, and geographic backgrounds?

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We are working very hard to not talk about women's numbers as a monolith.

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I mean, women are not a monolith, and the economic story for women of color is different

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than it is for, in some cases, for women, for white women.

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But so we're doing it in a way that feels right to me, which is to be cognizant of it,

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to not be fast and loose about how we talk about women as if every woman's experience

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is the same.

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But I also believe that we have much more in common than we are different.

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And so if lots and lots of subgroups and identities is something that you want evaluated when

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you look at women's economic policy, you may not necessarily find everything that you're

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looking for with Engage.

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But we are trying to be incredibly responsible in being inclusive about women's experiences.

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And so much of that too is regional, as well as it is racial, as well as it is any number

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of things.

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But also, our North Star is that we are more alike than we are different, and that together

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we are the majority.

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So as the majority, why are we not imprinting more what the priorities are of our public

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servants?

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How do you envision the role of younger women in this new movement?

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And how are you engaging the next generation of female leaders?

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Young women, look, I've been as moved as anybody by seeing the political energy and

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the early voting by young women in this country.

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I'm excited that they are taken to the polls and that they're volunteering for campaigns

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because it's the only way that democracy is going to survive and flourish.

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At the same time, they go together.

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I'm excited to see them participating because I'm really, really worried about the figures

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and the data that talk about the cynicism.

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Maybe I'm using that word, I'm not sure that they would, but the cynicism they feel towards

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our institutions.

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And I think in some cases, the lack of awareness and the lack of admiration for how we came

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to these institutions and how many people fought for them, died for them, defined them,

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and how they make the United States of America totally unique and the miracle that I think

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it is.

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So I'm very excited that young women are flying their flags and marching to the polls.

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And my biggest hope is that after this election is done, whether they are happy with the outcome

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or not, that they don't resort to cynicism or they don't result to being disrespectful

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to this country, which I would argue has given us more opportunity than perhaps anybody

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else realizes around the globe.

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So it's a double, it's a double, it's a double for me.

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They got to stay in it.

402
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As for future political dancers, second part of your question, future women leaders, look,

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you got to run and it's hard and it's not for everybody.

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I'm a little bit of a contrarian about this from the standpoint that I don't think the

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answer to everything is just to elect more women.

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I'm part of the swamp in Washington and believe you me, women are every bit as partisan as

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men are.

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I mean, Speaker Pelosi, God bless her, got elected with the largest class of women in

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the House of Representatives several, a couple of election cycles ago.

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I didn't see those women locking arms, saying kumbaya, coming out of the Capitol steps saying

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let's work together.

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So power is just that and partisanship is an important power signifier.

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But I think when more women are holding office, it has a distinct, it makes a distinct impact

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on the conversations and priorities.

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And that's why my hope is that the representation becomes even more equal just because of what

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women bring to it from their personal experience.

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Are you familiar with an organization called the Policy Circle?

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I am.

419
00:32:13,660 --> 00:32:14,660
I am.

420
00:32:14,660 --> 00:32:15,660
Yes.

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00:32:15,660 --> 00:32:16,660
I went to one of their lunches quite a while ago.

422
00:32:16,660 --> 00:32:17,660
Yeah.

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I see a lot of synergies there.

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One of the co-founders, Sylvie Leger, has been on our show.

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And so as you're talking through this, I see a lot of things that could potentially be

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done together, which is great.

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And finally, Engage for Women celebrates bipartisanship no matter who wins an election.

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It's the only path forward.

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00:32:32,340 --> 00:32:36,140
Our country is so politically divided that celebrating bipartisanship and moving forward

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no matter which party wins is a Herculean, if not almost impossible task to accomplish

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these days.

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What's the cause of today's highly partisan political environment?

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I don't think it's one factor.

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I talk about it as a knot, which may actually, upon reflection, may not be the perfect descriptor.

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What I mean by that is that the various threads are so tightly coiled together, you have to

436
00:33:05,260 --> 00:33:09,500
look at it in some ways in its entirety.

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00:33:09,500 --> 00:33:17,660
I do not think it's a solve one problem and this will all go away.

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00:33:17,660 --> 00:33:21,460
But of the top of them, of course, which I'm sure have been discussed at length on your

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00:33:21,460 --> 00:33:27,620
program are the professionalization of politics as a way to make a living, the consultant

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class, the money spent on politics.

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That's certainly a factor.

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I think media bears an incredible responsibility and the business of media has a lot to do

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with the situation we find ourselves in.

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But I would also say, and I say this a lot, and I think it shocks people a little bit

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and it's my intent, but I also believe it's the truth.

446
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I think it was Thomas Jefferson said or amended one great French philosopher, of course, of

447
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which there are many.

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But, you know, you get the government you deserve.

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And I'm a little tired of sitting in rooms with everybody being mad at Congress and never

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turning the mirror on themselves.

451
00:34:12,100 --> 00:34:17,780
I mean, while many of us just sort of had faith that members of Congress would do the

452
00:34:17,780 --> 00:34:22,020
responsible thing for their countries and we were living our lives or working on the

453
00:34:22,020 --> 00:34:28,980
weekends for survival or taking our kids to sports practice or like me watching law and

454
00:34:28,980 --> 00:34:34,100
order reruns on the couch or something, you know, the fringes on both sides of the political

455
00:34:34,100 --> 00:34:36,740
aisle took over the political parties.

456
00:34:36,740 --> 00:34:39,980
And so we have to contend with that.

457
00:34:39,980 --> 00:34:46,340
Our lack of engagement, our stepping back, our complaining and not voting in primaries

458
00:34:46,340 --> 00:34:52,180
nationally in this country in any significant way is on us.

459
00:34:52,180 --> 00:35:01,940
And so I am very keen to make that point to people who want to place all the blame on,

460
00:35:01,940 --> 00:35:06,980
you know, 535 members of Congress in a White House, because I don't I don't, you know, I

461
00:35:06,980 --> 00:35:11,540
don't necessarily believe they they they deserve all of that.

462
00:35:11,540 --> 00:35:15,780
My wife always says, if you don't vote, you can't complain about it.

463
00:35:15,780 --> 00:35:16,980
Yeah, I think that that's true.

464
00:35:16,980 --> 00:35:19,700
And I would just underscore if we don't go to vote in primaries.

465
00:35:19,700 --> 00:35:23,700
I mean, you know, the irony is not lost on me or shouldn't be lost on anybody else, that

466
00:35:23,700 --> 00:35:27,540
the overriding thing is, you know, is people don't like their choices.

467
00:35:27,540 --> 00:35:32,420
Well, you know, we you know, many states ran primaries.

468
00:35:32,420 --> 00:35:35,700
I mean, you didn't you know, on the Republican side, they didn't rush right out and make a

469
00:35:35,700 --> 00:35:36,500
different decision.

470
00:35:36,500 --> 00:35:38,500
Those voters didn't or on the Democratic side.

471
00:35:38,500 --> 00:35:45,060
And a lot of these states, the primary turnout is incredibly low and fairly disheartening.

472
00:35:46,180 --> 00:35:51,060
When people are as frustrated with the choices that they have now, seemingly, it's like,

473
00:35:51,060 --> 00:35:54,100
can't we rewind and say, well, gosh, if we'd done this.

474
00:35:55,620 --> 00:36:01,700
But the last piece of it, you know, to place to place blame in this portion of the conversation,

475
00:36:01,700 --> 00:36:04,660
you know, we can give it to the political establishment.

476
00:36:04,660 --> 00:36:07,780
We can give it to the media.

477
00:36:07,780 --> 00:36:09,620
We can take some on ourselves.

478
00:36:09,620 --> 00:36:12,580
And then we also have to be smart about reforms, too.

479
00:36:12,580 --> 00:36:18,260
I mean, you know, what are what are some of the reforms that need to be looked at seriously,

480
00:36:18,260 --> 00:36:22,100
whether it's gerrymandering, whether it's campaign finance reform, whether it's rank

481
00:36:22,100 --> 00:36:23,060
choice voting?

482
00:36:23,060 --> 00:36:27,620
And then, you know, what's going to work with this constitution in this moment in time?

483
00:36:27,620 --> 00:36:29,060
I mean, we're going to have to try.

484
00:36:29,780 --> 00:36:36,580
My feeling is we're going to have to try a number of things and call and shine a light,

485
00:36:36,580 --> 00:36:43,060
you know, not live in the darkness, as they say, about a number of the things that that

486
00:36:43,060 --> 00:36:47,300
help perpetuate dysfunction before we get to the bottom of it.

487
00:36:48,580 --> 00:36:52,420
What are some of the biggest challenges you've faced in promoting bipartisan cooperation

488
00:36:52,420 --> 00:36:53,380
and how have you overcome them?

489
00:36:55,300 --> 00:36:56,260
You know, I say a lot.

490
00:36:56,260 --> 00:36:56,820
It's funny, Chris.

491
00:36:56,820 --> 00:36:59,540
I say I feel like I should be not me.

492
00:37:00,340 --> 00:37:05,620
I mean, I worked and created a bipartisan conversation, hope to do that, you know,

493
00:37:05,700 --> 00:37:09,220
and it's on my tombstone when I go to heaven, but if I'm so lucky.

494
00:37:09,860 --> 00:37:13,220
But the first one is that this should be huge.

495
00:37:13,220 --> 00:37:16,580
I mean, you know, I was looking at some Gallup numbers last night.

496
00:37:16,580 --> 00:37:20,420
Forty three percent of people in this country consider themselves independents.

497
00:37:20,420 --> 00:37:22,900
Well, that is code for bipartisanship.

498
00:37:22,900 --> 00:37:27,540
That's code for people having some semblance of being knowing that people have to work

499
00:37:27,540 --> 00:37:33,220
together and being unhappy, self-identifying as a Republican or self-identifying as a Democrat.

500
00:37:33,220 --> 00:37:42,420
So the biggest frustration I have is just it's in the initial like 45 or 30 to 45 seconds

501
00:37:42,420 --> 00:37:45,300
when I say I want to talk about bipartisanship.

502
00:37:45,300 --> 00:37:49,860
And it doesn't matter if I'm on the Upper East Side of Manhattan where I was last week

503
00:37:49,860 --> 00:37:55,460
for a luncheon or if I'm talking to people when I'm at home in Northwest Ohio or I'm

504
00:37:55,460 --> 00:37:57,700
talking to people on Zoom that I've never met.

505
00:37:57,700 --> 00:38:04,820
There is disbelief and exasperation and total frustration.

506
00:38:04,820 --> 00:38:06,020
And that's the hardest thing.

507
00:38:06,900 --> 00:38:09,860
The hardest thing immediately.

508
00:38:09,860 --> 00:38:16,100
But then what I've learned is and I feel quite privileged to be in this situation because

509
00:38:16,100 --> 00:38:20,740
I sit in Washington, D.C. and I get to spend a lot of time with senior staff and people

510
00:38:20,740 --> 00:38:24,980
that are elected and get to know them and see them interact with each other.

511
00:38:24,980 --> 00:38:30,100
I have amazing bipartisan stories of friendship and people working together.

512
00:38:30,100 --> 00:38:35,380
And these are things that these are stories that are very underreported, very not told,

513
00:38:36,180 --> 00:38:37,860
which is essentially the same thing.

514
00:38:37,860 --> 00:38:44,900
But the stories of bipartisanship, part of the reason that people are so skeptical

515
00:38:46,260 --> 00:38:51,300
is because bipartisan successes are not shouted from the rooftops.

516
00:38:51,940 --> 00:38:57,140
And because our system right now is currently obsessed with politics and not with governing.

517
00:38:58,020 --> 00:39:00,980
And those are two very different things.

518
00:39:00,980 --> 00:39:08,660
And we live now at least in the culture and a constant state of politics and never conversations

519
00:39:08,660 --> 00:39:09,380
about governing.

520
00:39:09,940 --> 00:39:13,460
And the irony is, is the only path forward is for people to work together.

521
00:39:13,460 --> 00:39:14,660
There is no other way.

522
00:39:15,620 --> 00:39:21,060
So when I get that first 30, you know, 30 seconds of like, oh, my God, bipartisanship,

523
00:39:21,060 --> 00:39:22,260
it's like, but wait a second.

524
00:39:22,260 --> 00:39:23,700
There is no other way.

525
00:39:26,180 --> 00:39:26,740
It's shocking.

526
00:39:27,860 --> 00:39:31,060
You know, you mentioned earlier how you've got 10 percent each side of the parties.

527
00:39:31,780 --> 00:39:32,980
You know, they're in the bully pulpit.

528
00:39:32,980 --> 00:39:37,140
You know, I've always said that America is a bell curve where you've got 75, 80 percent

529
00:39:37,700 --> 00:39:42,740
different shades of gray or purple here, but it's the ones with the bullhorn that get the

530
00:39:42,820 --> 00:39:45,140
viewers, the listeners, the social media hits.

531
00:39:45,140 --> 00:39:49,220
And to your point, that's very unfortunate because the things that are getting done,

532
00:39:49,220 --> 00:39:53,060
the bipartisanship projects and works that are being done are not getting the recognition

533
00:39:53,060 --> 00:39:53,540
they deserve.

534
00:39:54,260 --> 00:39:57,060
And then more yes to all of that.

535
00:39:57,060 --> 00:40:03,140
But also, you know, we have a lot of big things coming up for this country and a lot of problems

536
00:40:03,140 --> 00:40:04,580
that need to be addressed.

537
00:40:04,580 --> 00:40:11,220
And so we have got the bell curve, as you say, those 75 percent and you can call it

538
00:40:11,220 --> 00:40:15,860
70 or, you know, play with your numbers as much as you want, have got to make the decision

539
00:40:15,860 --> 00:40:17,220
to be heard.

540
00:40:17,220 --> 00:40:21,700
I mean, the classic example or not class, it is a classic example, but that sounds sort

541
00:40:21,700 --> 00:40:22,260
of quaint.

542
00:40:22,260 --> 00:40:30,260
And I mean it much more, much more urgently than that is there are 48 million family caregivers

543
00:40:30,260 --> 00:40:31,060
in this country.

544
00:40:31,620 --> 00:40:34,260
Seven out of 10 caregivers are women.

545
00:40:34,260 --> 00:40:37,380
That's women caring for an aging parent or sick child.

546
00:40:38,020 --> 00:40:42,260
The solutions are very difficult to find and they're very expensive.

547
00:40:42,260 --> 00:40:46,100
But the fact of the matter is, is these women suffer in silence.

548
00:40:46,100 --> 00:40:48,580
I so often living their lives doing it.

549
00:40:48,580 --> 00:40:52,500
I can't think of another sort of group of Americans.

550
00:40:52,500 --> 00:40:54,900
I mean, 48 million Americans is a large group.

551
00:40:54,900 --> 00:40:59,460
For instance, the AARP, which is the 50 plus Americans in this country, they say their

552
00:40:59,460 --> 00:41:04,260
membership is 33 million people, 33 or 38, one of the two.

553
00:41:04,260 --> 00:41:07,140
But the point is, is there 48 million family caregivers?

554
00:41:07,140 --> 00:41:09,620
I mean, they don't all belong to a caregiver's union.

555
00:41:09,620 --> 00:41:14,340
I mean, they are living their lives, putting one foot in the other, putting one foot in

556
00:41:14,340 --> 00:41:15,540
front of the other rather.

557
00:41:16,100 --> 00:41:24,180
And so some of it is just to that 75, if you will, your 75% bell curve point is that a

558
00:41:24,180 --> 00:41:28,420
lot of people don't know where to organize to come together.

559
00:41:29,140 --> 00:41:34,100
And so when I talk about my hope for engagement in new women's movement, it is we are the

560
00:41:34,100 --> 00:41:37,700
place where women find it's not toxic.

561
00:41:37,700 --> 00:41:43,860
It's not too hot one way or the other that makes them realize they've got to invest again

562
00:41:43,860 --> 00:41:49,940
in saying to members of Congress, you know, I'm a caregiver and this is darn tough.

563
00:41:49,940 --> 00:41:58,180
Or, you know, I'm really worried about my daughter and what she's going to do with AI.

564
00:41:58,180 --> 00:42:02,900
And I don't want to have a four year college, but whatever it is, we've got to start impressing

565
00:42:02,980 --> 00:42:04,900
upon them what our priorities are.

566
00:42:06,340 --> 00:42:10,420
What strategies has Engage Women found effective in getting leaders from opposing political

567
00:42:10,420 --> 00:42:12,900
parties to collaborate on economic security for women?

568
00:42:14,980 --> 00:42:18,980
Look, I say a lot of 535 members of Congress.

569
00:42:18,980 --> 00:42:19,540
I don't know.

570
00:42:19,540 --> 00:42:21,460
There may be 10 or 20 bad apples.

571
00:42:22,580 --> 00:42:28,580
By that, I mean, you know, people that are not taking their job seriously or not responding

572
00:42:28,660 --> 00:42:39,460
to constituent mail or, you know, being 100% a person that has 100% ideology about anything

573
00:42:39,460 --> 00:42:41,860
that doesn't want to sit with the other side.

574
00:42:41,860 --> 00:42:46,980
And I say that because most people, the majority, the vast majority in Congress of people that

575
00:42:46,980 --> 00:42:52,420
serve in Congress care desperately about this country and have come here because they want

576
00:42:52,420 --> 00:42:53,700
to do good work.

577
00:42:54,260 --> 00:43:01,860
And, you know, behind the camera, there are lots and lots of them working wholeheartedly

578
00:43:01,860 --> 00:43:08,740
together, feeling each other out about what compromises might be, trying to understand

579
00:43:09,700 --> 00:43:15,620
what wiggle room they might have to persuade them to be with them on a certain amendment

580
00:43:15,620 --> 00:43:17,300
or a certain piece of legislation.

581
00:43:18,500 --> 00:43:20,660
So what's our strategy?

582
00:43:20,660 --> 00:43:24,980
Our strategy really, quite frankly, is the goodness of many of them inherently.

583
00:43:26,100 --> 00:43:33,860
And it's also to be, and I don't mean this to sound too cute, but also be positive.

584
00:43:33,860 --> 00:43:42,580
I mean, for me, the thing that's most demoralizing and the thing that should be most urgently

585
00:43:42,580 --> 00:43:45,380
not tolerated is walking away from the table.

586
00:43:45,780 --> 00:43:50,500
I mean, the fact of the matter is, is, you know, if you walk away from the table at a

587
00:43:50,500 --> 00:43:54,020
compromising table and you say, I give up, I'm going to walk away.

588
00:43:54,020 --> 00:43:58,020
Then you're essentially saying to the people that really need your help, I don't have to

589
00:43:58,020 --> 00:43:59,860
sit there and do this hard work anymore.

590
00:44:00,580 --> 00:44:03,780
And you're essentially saying to, you know, you're saying to yourself, well, I guess they

591
00:44:03,780 --> 00:44:08,020
don't need, you know, the little benefit that they were going to get, or they don't need

592
00:44:08,020 --> 00:44:12,020
this regulation change, and I'm just going to be angry and walk away.

593
00:44:12,020 --> 00:44:17,060
That to me is what I find not in service of the American people.

594
00:44:18,820 --> 00:44:22,900
You've mentioned a few times that women are a larger voting bloc, but despite them being

595
00:44:22,900 --> 00:44:27,060
a larger bloc, are there barriers preventing political leaders from prioritizing women's

596
00:44:27,060 --> 00:44:30,100
economic issues, or are there some other forces at work like inertia?

597
00:44:30,180 --> 00:44:32,740
I think inertia is part of it.

598
00:44:32,740 --> 00:44:45,460
And I think that women's political interests have for far too long been sort of sub-categorized

599
00:44:46,180 --> 00:44:49,780
in the reproductive rights space, right to life issues.

600
00:44:52,100 --> 00:44:59,860
Their economic challenges, their economic needs, their social needs, their economic

601
00:45:00,180 --> 00:45:04,820
challenges have been not seen as the priority of the nation.

602
00:45:06,020 --> 00:45:17,140
And I think COVID was one of the first lightning strikes, if you will, when Congress realized

603
00:45:18,420 --> 00:45:24,900
the vital piece that women play in this country's economic success and in their workforce.

604
00:45:25,060 --> 00:45:28,500
There's some patriarchy involved in that.

605
00:45:28,500 --> 00:45:30,900
There's some condescension involved in that.

606
00:45:32,660 --> 00:45:38,260
There's women not being as organized as I think they should be in all of that.

607
00:45:38,260 --> 00:45:48,180
So it's not one thing, but I think all of those are very fair to put on the list of reasons why

608
00:45:49,140 --> 00:45:54,420
women, and I also want to say family policy, women and their children

609
00:45:56,660 --> 00:46:01,620
policy doesn't rank higher than it should, I believe.

610
00:46:03,140 --> 00:46:06,260
Do you see any trends or bright spots where women's voting power is starting

611
00:46:06,260 --> 00:46:09,220
to shift the conversation toward economic security and political campaigns?

612
00:46:10,260 --> 00:46:10,820
Yeah, I do.

613
00:46:11,780 --> 00:46:19,060
Engage has spent the last two years working very closely with a Senate and House working groups

614
00:46:19,060 --> 00:46:23,380
dedicated to common sense solutions around paid family leave.

615
00:46:24,260 --> 00:46:27,060
And they are led in these groups in the House.

616
00:46:27,060 --> 00:46:32,260
It's led by Chrissy Houlihan, Representative Houlihan and Representative Bice from Oklahoma

617
00:46:32,260 --> 00:46:33,940
and Pennsylvania, respectively.

618
00:46:33,940 --> 00:46:39,700
And in the Senate, it's led by Senator Gillibrand and Senator Cassidy.

619
00:46:39,780 --> 00:46:45,220
And these groups that have, I believe, four members, Republicans and Democrats on both sides

620
00:46:45,220 --> 00:46:50,180
have worked diligently for two years, maybe a little bit longer, actually,

621
00:46:50,180 --> 00:46:58,660
on looking at what is possible, where agreement is, and what shot we have at doing something.

622
00:46:58,660 --> 00:47:05,460
And lots of advocates and NGOs and philanthropists have spent an incredible amount of time and

623
00:47:05,460 --> 00:47:12,260
resources over the last decade or so lifting up the challenges of family leave.

624
00:47:12,260 --> 00:47:17,620
And in the case of family leave, we really think of it as four buckets, if you will.

625
00:47:17,620 --> 00:47:25,220
There's parental leave, there's paid family and sick leave, and then there's military leave,

626
00:47:26,260 --> 00:47:28,500
and then family caregiving leave.

627
00:47:28,500 --> 00:47:36,180
And so how, in the current state that we are in budget-wise in the United States,

628
00:47:36,180 --> 00:47:44,980
what is possible? How would it be paid for? And how can we get something over the finish line?

629
00:47:44,980 --> 00:47:53,700
We've been working really hard on that. And it's very exciting to see the spirit in which

630
00:47:53,700 --> 00:47:56,260
Republicans and Democrats in those working groups are working on it.

631
00:47:56,260 --> 00:48:03,300
Now, with that said, if this stuff was easy, it would be done already. I mean, it's really hard.

632
00:48:03,300 --> 00:48:06,980
And what's really hard about it is because everything is really expensive.

633
00:48:08,580 --> 00:48:11,940
Well, and maybe as a follow-up to that, do the Democrats and Republicans have

634
00:48:11,940 --> 00:48:14,980
different visions and approaches to achieve economic security for women?

635
00:48:16,740 --> 00:48:23,540
Do they? Yes, I do. And then I think there's vast agreement. I think

636
00:48:23,860 --> 00:48:30,100
these are stereotypes, but stereotypes happen for a reason. Democrats, as evidence in Build Back

637
00:48:30,100 --> 00:48:40,580
Better, wanted to create and shape some new, very large programs. Republicans tend to not,

638
00:48:40,580 --> 00:48:45,140
well, tend to, that's being polite, I guess. Republicans are virtually never in that camp.

639
00:48:45,140 --> 00:48:52,820
They'd like to take smaller steps, see success before they create something big and expensive.

640
00:48:52,820 --> 00:48:56,260
I mean, look, when you give people something, anybody, you give me something, you give you

641
00:48:56,260 --> 00:49:01,540
something, Chris, it's very hard to take it away. We like what we have. So, you know, we're in the,

642
00:49:01,540 --> 00:49:11,140
they play their roles well, that tension, they play it well. But there's vast agreement in what

643
00:49:12,100 --> 00:49:21,620
the challenges are. It's just very difficult to figure out how to pay for it. And again,

644
00:49:21,620 --> 00:49:27,540
this is where the majority of women need to get engaged in a new way and say, this is the priority.

645
00:49:27,540 --> 00:49:31,780
This is our priority. You may think that this is your priority, but we're the ones that go to the

646
00:49:31,780 --> 00:49:36,580
polls and vote. And we're telling you that our number one priority is retirement security,

647
00:49:37,140 --> 00:49:43,860
or our number one priority is parental leave. And so your priority may be quite different than mine,

648
00:49:43,860 --> 00:49:49,380
but I'm the one that gets to vote for you. So, you know, hear me roar, basically. And that's

649
00:49:49,380 --> 00:49:56,020
where we have, I mean, we have the elective power. We can say, it's not quite this simple,

650
00:49:56,020 --> 00:50:00,340
but women could say, and polling shows it, for instance, that these are the things they're

651
00:50:00,340 --> 00:50:07,380
thinking about. So, you know, hear us. What new laws would you like to see to address

652
00:50:07,380 --> 00:50:10,340
women's economic security and what's it going to take to get them enacted?

653
00:50:11,540 --> 00:50:19,300
I would like to see some aid given to family caregivers. I would like to see some aid given

654
00:50:19,300 --> 00:50:24,740
on the paid family leave side, as I just was referencing. And I would very much like to see

655
00:50:24,740 --> 00:50:32,100
some new thinking on childcare and some new thinking on people that work in childcare.

656
00:50:32,100 --> 00:50:37,300
We're vastly under-resourced, I guess would be the spiffy way of saying we don't have nearly

657
00:50:37,300 --> 00:50:43,060
enough childcare in this country. Senators Britt and Senators Kaine, right before Congress left

658
00:50:43,940 --> 00:50:49,300
for October, introduced some new legislation for childcare and childcare providers.

659
00:50:50,020 --> 00:50:59,380
Those areas are very important and very important to women. And I feel not hopeful for all of them,

660
00:50:59,380 --> 00:51:06,820
but I also feel hopeful that in this next Congress, we have a real shot at addressing

661
00:51:06,820 --> 00:51:09,780
some family policy that has not been addressed for quite a while.

662
00:51:11,060 --> 00:51:14,660
We've been talking about bipartisanship throughout the show. Can you share a success

663
00:51:14,660 --> 00:51:18,820
story or two where bipartisan collaboration led to tangible economic benefits for women?

664
00:51:19,940 --> 00:51:27,060
Well, yes. I mean, I'm also famous in my own mind, Chris, and maybe my family,

665
00:51:27,060 --> 00:51:31,940
since it's a small family, so I don't mean it as self-grandizing, but I'm famous in that I can

666
00:51:31,940 --> 00:51:36,100
make everything a women's economic security argument. Just give me something and I'll tie

667
00:51:36,100 --> 00:51:45,780
it right back. But we can argue with the way the COVID relief package has happened, but the Senate

668
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responded, the Congress responded very quickly and very succinctly in keeping many women and

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many small businesses afloat during that time and many families afloat. We cannot say maybe it was

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too much and too long, and it's part of the reason we have the price tag or the debt rather that we

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do, but that was real action to save Americans and Americans and their families. I would also say in

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the infrastructure bill, all the money that has yet to be realized, which is frustrating to me,

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but around broadband is really, really important and rural broadband. I mean, broadband is a women's

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economic security issue. It was easy to sort of say that during COVID when women were driving around

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to parking lots looking for Wi-Fi so that their kids could go to school, but I don't know how

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anybody is supposed to survive today if you can't apply for a job, if you don't have the capacity

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for telehealth, if you don't have the capacity to talk to your teacher's schools, if you don't have

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the capacity to pay your bills online. So the massive investment that the government has made

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in broadband, again, yet to be realized and their challenges, but that is a significant

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thing. And quite frankly, some Republicans took some heat for voting for that large of an

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expenditure and a lot of Republicans didn't vote for it. So those are two biggies that

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don't often get looked at that way, which is why I think you also have to cast a broad lens about it

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because people don't think of broadband being a women's economic security issue, but it absolutely

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is. Rachel Pearson, as someone who's an only child from a single mom, thank you for the work that you

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do. Oh, bless your heart. You must have one amazing mom. She was a rock star. Well, thank you for

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having me. There are a lot of rock stars out there and a lot of women without children,

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but like myself, who's a very proud aunt and is participating in the family and very proud

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of my nephew and all that he's accomplishing. So I always want to be reminded, I've always been

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mindful of the women that not only are doing it solo like your cool mom or getting to be an aunt

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like me, or just a woman that's lit up by being an entrepreneur and may not have children, but

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is creating jobs and economic growth for America. So hats off to everybody. I'm Chris Meek, run of

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time. We'll see you next week. Same time, same place. Until then, stay safe and keep taking your

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next steps forward. Thanks for tuning in to Next Steps Forward. Be sure to join Chris Meek for

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another great show next Tuesday at 10am Pacific Time and 1pm Eastern Time on the Voice America

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Empowerment Channel. This week, make things happen in your life.

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Transcribed by https://otter.ai