Small Actions, Big Impact w/ Dr. Resa Lewiss & Dr. Adaira Landry

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There are few things that make people successful.

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Taking a step forward to change their lives is one successful trait, but it takes some

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time to get there.

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How do you move forward to greet the success that awaits you?

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Welcome to Next Steps Forward with host Chris Meek.

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Each week, Chris brings on another guest who has successfully taken the next steps forward.

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Now here is Chris Meek.

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Hello, I'm Chris Meek, and you've tuned to this week's episode of Next Steps Forward.

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As always, it's a pleasure to have you with us.

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Our special guests today are Dr. Dara Landry and Dr. Risa Lewis.

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Dr. Landry is an assistant professor at Harvard Medical School and an emergency medicine physician

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at Brigham and Women's Hospital.

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She studied and trained at the University of California, Berkeley, University of California,

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Los Angeles, New York University, and of course, Harvard.

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Dr. Landry has nearly a decade of experience mentoring students and early career professionals.

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She's also a healthcare contributor for Forbes, an entrepreneur, and a keynote speaker.

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She co-founded Writing in Color, a nonprofit that teaches the craft of writing.

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She lives in Boston with her three daughters and husband.

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Dr. Lewis is a professor of emergency medicine at the University of Alabama at Birmingham.

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She's also a TEDMED speaker, Time's Up healthcare founder, entrepreneur, award-winning educator,

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mentor, and point of care ultrasound specialist.

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Dr. Lewis studied at Brown University, the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine,

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the National Institutes of Health Howard Hughes Research Scholars Program, Harvard Emergency

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Medicine, and Mount Sinai St. Luke's Roosevelt.

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She hosts the Visible Voices podcast, amplifying content in the healthcare, equity, and current

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trend spaces.

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She lives in Philadelphia.

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Earlier they authored Microskills, Small Actions, Big Impact, which was published by

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HarperCollins in April.

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Dr. Landry and Dr. Lewis, welcome to Next Steps Forward.

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Thanks for having us.

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It's great to be here.

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So we have a 57-minute show, and I think I just used up 50 minutes of it with your introductions

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and your education backgrounds.

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Before we start getting to the conversation, what don't you two do?

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It's amazing.

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There's plenty.

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And I think based on what you generously shared with the audience, a lot of the ways we're

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able to accomplish, the skills we learned to accomplish what we accomplished.

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For you to be able to share that long list, we put it right into this book of Microskills

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to help everybody be able to accomplish everything that brings them joy that they want to in

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their professional lives.

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And we certainly don't do it all at once.

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I think Risa and I have had waves of periods of time where we were really busy with lots

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of titles and responsibilities, and waves where we've been able to have more free time,

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more creative space, more energy for just self-compassion and self-care.

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I love it.

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Well, let's get right into it.

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Let's start by defining what Microskills are.

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How are they different from regular skills or what we tend to think of as traditional

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workplace skills?

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Yeah.

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I'll start with, it sounds like what it is.

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These are small, fundamental building blocks or steps to accomplish, for example, large

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goals, large projects, even habits that you think some people have it and some people

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don't.

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We really think that when you have those feelings in the workplace, you can break things down

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into small building blocks that not only are additive to help you accomplish that large

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thing, but also they translate so that to the best of our ability, we wrote a very comprehensive

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business self-help book.

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If there are things that we didn't cover, and to be clear, there are things we didn't

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cover just because, it's a way of thinking that we want the reader to take home, that

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they can then apply to those things that they encounter in their professional journeys.

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I think Risa and I have both been in situations where we needed help with a large goal, like

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how to become a better public speaker, how to become a subject matter expert, how to

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navigate conflict.

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We might have gotten varied responses from people around us, or maybe we got no response.

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We wanted to write a book that felt like a guidebook, like a playbook, a toolkit that

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was full of very actionable, concrete skills, because we know what it's like to want something

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and to not be sure where to start, to feel overwhelmed by change and what needs to occur,

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and just not knowing really how to take some ambition and really put legs on it and make

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it move.

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You make the point in the book that it's built on one core, easy-to-learn principle, which

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is every big goal, complicated task, healthy habit, and what we think of as character traits

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can be broken into small, learnable micro-skills that can be practiced and incorporated in

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real time.

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Has the concept of micro-skills been around a while?

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Is it based on new science research, or is your perspective a new approach to micro-skills?

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Actually, no, it's not a new concept.

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It's been used in different arenas, in education and sociology training.

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It's been used there for, I think, I've seen research going back decades.

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The way I have first seen it myself was in medical education, teaching doctors how to

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do certain procedures.

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Just to quickly give an example at a high level, if a medical student or a doctor-in-training,

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a resident, were to be asked to go, let's say, resuscitate a patient, like someone who's

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really critically ill, if they were just told to go resuscitate a patient, that might be

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a very overwhelming task.

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What a lot of educators do is instead break down the 40 or 50 somewhat steps that would

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actually constitute resuscitating a patient, so assigning teams.

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How do you actually assign people their roles?

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How do you do chest compressions properly?

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How do you pick which medications to give?

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All of those very small fundamental things allow you to get to the building block.

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Those small fundamental things are micro-skills.

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They're skills that can be fine-tuned, refined, assessed.

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We really wanted to take that concept of there are these small actions that we make at work,

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and hopefully we get into some of those in this hour, that can really have very large

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effect as far as pushing us towards that larger goal.

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I'll share a non-medical way to think about this.

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Those of us that grew up tying our shoes, there were step-by-step ways that we learned

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to tie our shoes, and then perhaps then you could translate what you learned with tying

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your shoe to tying a knot if you were a sailor, and tying knots on a boat.

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These translate, and they are actual behavioral how-tos that we talk about in the book.

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What inspired you to focus on micro-skills as opposed to larger competencies or hard

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skills in the workplace?

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I think Risa and I have very similar lived experiences in the workplace, especially as

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women in very hyper-competitive academic environments where it just seems like people are moving

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at different rates, sometimes slower, faster.

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For me, I'll just speak to the idea of watching some of my peers seemingly move faster in

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their careers, and it felt like they had it figured out.

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There was this aha moment where I realized that it wasn't that it was just naturally

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coming to them.

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It was really that people were teaching them how to navigate a system that's quite complex.

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A particular example was when I was sitting next to a peer on shift, and I recognized

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that he was getting all sorts of accolades, awards, grants, large promotions.

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Everything was just coming his direction.

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I said, how are you finding all of these people to sponsor you, to support you, to nominate

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you?

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How are you finding these people to do all of that work on your behalf?

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He looked at me and he said, Adara, you have it wrong.

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I'm leading this entire ship myself.

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I'm asking people to support me.

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The very first micro-skill I felt like I learned was that he was writing his own letter of

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recommendations.

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I had never heard of that before.

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It felt taboo.

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It felt like something I wasn't supposed to know he was doing, but that was the actual

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micro-skill that was allowing him to move forward was that if he wanted an opportunity,

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and let's say he wanted to nominate him, Chris, he might say, hey, Chris, can you nominate

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me for this award?

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I'll draft the letter of recommendation so you really don't have to do much.

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That small little skill allowed him to just totally spread his wings and apply for many

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more things because he wasn't burdening people.

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It's sort of like the rules of the road, the skills of the game that I just wasn't

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privy to until someone explicitly told me that.

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That small little micro-skill totally changed how I approached work.

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I'll add that you asked about hard skills and soft skills.

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One of the stories that got us going in terms of this book is Adara and I had a conversation

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about mentorship, and we both value mentorship.

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That's a part of our education portfolio.

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We've both benefited from really, really, really stellar model mentors, and also we

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both have received awards for the role we've played as mentors for mentees, so it's important,

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and we realize its importance in the workplace.

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Some people may think that's kind of a soft skill, and early on, Adara and I were speaking

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and we talked about writing about mentorship.

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Is that something that's publishable?

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Could you establish expertise in it?

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The answer was yes because that was sort of the source of some of our first publications

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together.

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What we are finding as we share the book and speak with audiences inside medicine, inside

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education, inside the business world is there's a lot of talk about skills and the skills

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gap and skills assessment.

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This book provides those skills through the micro skills approach, concept, thought process

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to really help level the workplace and help people that maybe didn't get the inside scoop,

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didn't get the book, don't have the family financial resources, didn't get the pedigree.

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Whatever it is, we kind of acknowledge and we start this at the beginning of the book

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that the world is not equal and that learning is limitless if only it is accessible, so

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we're trying to create that accessibility.

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And finally, the third truth that we share right in our introduction is that time can

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only be spent.

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So we want the reader, the audience, the listeners to think about time as a currency.

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Learning is limitless.

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I love that.

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And given your pedigrees, obviously, it's lifelong learning and it just keeps going

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and going.

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And so thank you for sharing that phrase.

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I put a big flag in the ground, if you will, on education.

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My mother was a deaf education teacher, single mom, all that stuff.

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And so I'm just thankful and appreciate all the work that you do out there.

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You both make the case in micro skills that, quote, the best strategies for success in

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the workplace are not so much taught as they are expected to be known.

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Worse still, there's a pervasive myth that some people have it, as you mentioned earlier,

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Adara, and some don't.

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What goes wrong when people make those assumptions and how can we fix it?

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I can go and start by saying, when I was in medical school, I had very little mentorship

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and support.

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And I think I was assuming that that would just come towards me and that someone would

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reach out to me and offer.

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And I also assumed that my peers were just naturally good at networking and naturally

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good at figuring out what their goals and their ambitions are.

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It took me a really long time to realize that there are many of us who are struggling

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to figure out what does it mean to be successful?

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How do I balance my time out of work with my time at work?

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How do I figure out ways to build a brand, build expertise?

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All of these questions I think many of us are struggling with.

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I think because we don't talk about our struggles enough in a public fashion, it becomes assumed

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that when someone is succeeding, that's all there is to it, that they're just naturally

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doing well all the time.

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There was this moment in time on Twitter where people were posting what's called a failure

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CV, a list of things that they actually haven't received recently, as an attempt to normalize

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that.

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For most of us, even people who have climbed the ladder to the top, there were still many

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obstacles in front of us.

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It's important for us to share those, to just normalize.

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It's typically not a natural path for anyone where we're just like, yes, yes, yes.

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You get some opportunity over and over again.

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There are lots of setbacks, lessons learned, obstacles, periods or points where you might

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have self-doubt.

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It's just a matter of us not being very public in how we share those moments.

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You asked what happens if we don't pay attention to that concept of accessibility.

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What happens is people feel like they don't belong.

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People feel like somehow they just don't have it.

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They don't have the skills.

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They don't have the ability.

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As Adair shared, we both had this experience when we got to where we got in the doctor

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world, for different reasons and some of the same reasons.

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I'll share, no one in my family is a physician.

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There was an expectation about very traditional gender roles, about what girls to women do,

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what boys to men do.

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When I got there, when I was in med school, I'm like, I cannot believe I'm here.

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Wow.

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I watched people around me just know how to get things done.

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I'll give a specific example of writing.

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I just thought I was not a good writer and I didn't know how to write.

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Somehow everybody knew that about me because I wasn't on any writing projects, but meanwhile

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my classmates were.

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Then I realized that's not what's it.

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That's not what's going on and it is related to what Adair shared about you're in charge.

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No one's coming to save you.

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You are in charge of your own education and you're in charge of your professional journey.

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One of the things I'd like to point out is when we were preparing our proposal for this

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book, basically you have to provide comp titles, comparative titles.

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Adair and I did a lot of reading and a lot of deep dive into the literature on business

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self-help and many of these books tell you to go out and do something, but they don't

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tell you how.

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Telling people how, explaining to people how you're getting the award or how you decided

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to become financially healthy, that how, those behaviors are what we talk about in the book.

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That shows our intention to pay attention to the fact that some people don't have that

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accessibility.

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So we're trying to make it accessible to the reader.

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In chapter one, which focuses on self-care, you encourage people to quote Marie Kondo,

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their life instead of just their space.

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Tell us what you mean by that.

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Well, I think there's many different ways to approach the Marie Kondo.

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For me, it was a matter of quitting things that no longer brought me joy.

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There was a moment in time, a large moment in time, where I was under the impression

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that I needed to say yes to everything and to take all sorts of tasks and put them on

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my plate and draw them out to conclusion.

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As I'm sure both of you know, and the listeners know, sometimes we say yes to things without

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actually doing any sort of investigation, without knowing if it's feasible or if it's

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something that's actually aligned with our interests.

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And so I was someone who did that.

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And I remember having multiple significant titles, not very large titles, but significant

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titles, two children, and then all sorts of tasks that were on my plate that could have

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been described as non-promotable work.

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So just work that felt like busy work, like attending meetings or hosting mixers, mentoring

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students.

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It might not have been something that would add a line to my CV, and also I felt responsible

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to do it.

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And so I think when it comes to the Marie Kondo aspect, it's really this idea of taking

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a look at what's in front of you, what's on your plate, and asking yourself, does this

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actually bring me joy?

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Is this aligned with my definition of success?

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Is this something that my boss values, that my institution or my company values?

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And then having a discussion on your own with your personal board of directors, which is

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a concept we can talk about in a second, but this idea of people who support you, and also

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your supervisor.

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This doesn't have to be done in isolation or in secrecy, bringing people onto the table

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and asking them like, hey, this is what I'm doing.

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I would like to take some of this off my plate because I'm unhappy and it's not all bringing

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me joy would be a first approach.

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You know, just remind me of something with my wife.

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She's very similar to you, Adaira, in terms of she can't say no to anything.

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And recently she went for a walk with one of her girlfriends and she was complaining

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about something with the PTO or some organization she's involved in.

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And her friend said, Christine, if it doesn't bring you joy, why are you doing it?

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And so it's just, I love how you kind of made it that simple for us.

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And to clarify, I can say no now.

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I can definitely say no now.

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And I think what happened was in the beginning, it was quite terrifying because I thought

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if I were to say no or to ask to be removed from something, I might get fired.

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I might get let go.

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I might taint my reputation.

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So it definitely took some time, but you know, I wasn't fired and I still have my

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job.

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I've been at my job for nine years.

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Right.

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And so I feel like if I was doing something wrong, there would be some signs in that direction,

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but there hasn't been.

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And so I think just sort of having that positive reinforcement that my job still likes having

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me there, I can continue to be strategic about what I say yes to.

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We codify it, codify it, however you want to say it in the book, all of us are given

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the messaging that we should always say yes to things, especially at work, because that

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might lead to the promotion.

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That might be the next big break.

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That might be the most amazing project.

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And it's called FOMO, fear of missing out.

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And we all succumb to it and we're all given that message.

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And we really talk about flipping that to JOMO, joy of missing out.

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Now we didn't come up with these phrases, but we certainly like them and use them.

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And the more you can be thoughtful and say no to things that don't bring you joy, that

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aren't basically aligned with your goals professionally, and sometimes to be clear, you have to try

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a few things before you learn what those goals are.

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But we really, really, as a part of the mantra of self-care, want the reader to really be

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thoughtful about what they're saying yes to professionally.

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So I'm definitely going to share the phrase JOMO with my wife.

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So I appreciate you teaching me that phrase today.

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And maybe as a follow-up to your self-care comment, a main premise of microskills is

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that we must, quote, take care of ourselves before we can take care of the team and the

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work.

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But beyond that, you make the point that self-care isn't just treating ourselves to a mani-pedi

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now and then.

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You have a very comprehensive definition of self-care and you describe it as, quote, always

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a work in progress.

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Give us your definition of self-care and why it's healthier for us to view it in your context.

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You know, we didn't come up with this comprehensive definition and we strongly, strongly feel

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that this is the way to go.

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Health is not just, you know, what happens when you go to the doctor's office and your

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physical body.

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Health is physical, it's mental, it's emotional, it's social, it's civic, it's financial.

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So these are all the parts of our life that make us functional human beings trying to

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live to the best of our ability, full lives.

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And in the workplace, you're not taught, it's not prioritized to take care of yourself.

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You know, example we give in the emergency department is we never call out sick, ever.

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And we all have the story of colleagues who walk around with an IV in their arm with the

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IV pole and they're walking around and seeing patients.

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And it's sort of like funny, not funny, funny, not funny.

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Now thank goodness things have changed since COVID because when COVID happened, if we were

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infected, we were mandated to stay home.

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But that never generally happens in medicine for physicians.

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So the concept of our chapter one is microskills for self-care intentionally because we really

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want people to take care of themselves because everything starts with the self.

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And this is not being egocentric, this is not being selfish, this is not being narcissistic.

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This is actually having a really healthy sense of self that you know that if you take care

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of yourself, you're going to be better able to show up for your team members.

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And then together as a team, you come up with a much better work product.

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How hard is it to not only develop microskills, but develop and maintain the right ones so

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we're effective and keep them going?

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We are very sympathetic to how hard it is to create change.

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Part of our job is to tell patients, take your medications, exercise, eat healthy foods.

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And we know as we're telling that, that there's a lot of privilege packed into that advice

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and that not everyone is able to do these things equally.

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It depends a lot on who are your dependents?

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Do you have access to a car?

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Do you have access to insurance?

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Do you understand the instructions your doctor are telling you, given that there's a language barrier?

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All of these things can make it very challenging for someone to do what they even know is good

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for them.

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So, I think we wanted to take that idea of recognizing the human experience of being

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an employee, of being a coworker or a peer, and someone who has ambitions, and also adding

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in this element of like, we understand that it's really hard for everyone to chase their

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dreams because of various factors.

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And so in the book, we have 10 chapters.

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Each chapter starts with a story, a vignette, or excuse me, each microskill starts with

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a vignette within the chapter.

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And after that, we go directly into why we think you should consider this microskill,

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and then why it might be hard for you to actually create change for yourself.

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And we added that element of why it's hard, because given our background as physicians,

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and even as educators and mentors, we know that if we tell someone just to quit tasks

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that bring you no joy, they might say, hey, you don't really understand me because I'm

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a young woman of color in a system where no one looks like me.

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And if I do that, that might create more negative energy in my direction.

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So I can't just do what you're telling me to.

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So this idea of adding in, I think, a more sympathetic tone to the piece, I think, allows

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people to realize like, okay, yes, there are ways to do this.

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Also, the authors understand my perspective, and what is to follow should have that level

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of compassion throughout.

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And so we really tried to make sure that it felt like a compassionate guidebook as well.

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You're both emergency medicine physicians, and obviously that's a very challenging job.

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What micro skills have made the biggest difference in your professional lives?

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We believe in all of them, and we could say all of them have been important.

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But day to day, interaction, interaction, and depending on what is on the to-do list

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for the day, different micro skills rise to the top.

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One that I think certainly is important, in fact, we dedicated a whole chapter to it as

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micro skills to grow your network.

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And I'll say like, I didn't completely understand the importance, nor did I even appreciate

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that I had a network until I think I was mid-career when I realized, oh, I have a network just

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by nature of the fact that I've gone to school, and I've gone through a few different echelons

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of schooling, meaning like high school to college, to med school, to residency, to fellowship,

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to a faculty position.

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And each time, those people become part of your network.

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But network is not just your work groups.

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It's also if you pursue sports, whatever hobbies, if you have something faith-based,

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all of these are part of your network.

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But more so that there is an intentionality behind networking in terms of, Adara referenced

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the personal board of directors, and this is another phrase that we love and a concept

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we love.

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We didn't come up with it, but it's something that's talked about a lot in the business

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self-help literature in terms of leadership and team building.

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And your personal board of directors are the people that sit figuratively on your board.

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There are no term limits.

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And these are the people, there's always an open chair.

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And some people are with you for a lifetime.

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Some people are with you maybe for one coaching session.

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But they have your back.

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They have your professional success in mind.

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And these are people you trust and people you go to for advice, for input, to give you

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feedback.

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These are people you can role play for difficult conversations.

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And these aren't one-way transactional relationships.

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These are actually two ways and intentional.

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And it's really important that not only you demonstrate members of your board gratitude,

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but also you try to help them as much as they're helping you or in ways to help them.

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And so back to networking, your personal board of directors is part of your network.

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They can help you network.

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And this also ties into the fact that both of us feel very strongly about mentoring and

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helping other people and growing your mentee's network by even just bringing them along to

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one of your own professional events.

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There's many easy, simple ways to grow your network.

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And finally, what I'll say is what networking does, and it doesn't have to be creepy or

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inauthentic, it should be real connection.

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And it doesn't have to be big and loud and in a group.

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It can be quiet and one-on-one and taking a walk together and speaking about something

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for the workplace.

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But by developing these intentional connections with people, you therefore have more people

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to call on for advice, for help, for that next opportunity.

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And it just sort of compounds many fold.

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Personal board of directors.

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00:27:57,880 --> 00:27:59,440
I haven't heard that one before either.

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I use the phrase kitchen cabinet, so along the same lines.

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And so I'll start weaving that into my conversation as well.

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So now we talked about professional micro skills.

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How about your personal lives?

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Is there any particular micro skill or set of micro skills that make a difference in

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your personal lives?

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Well, I was going to say from the professional standpoint, I'm just going to quickly add

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in comment to that one.

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The idea of avoiding or trying to minimize assumptions ahead of conflict.

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And I actually just witnessed this a few shifts ago where two people were having a lot of

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tension between each other.

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And I think it was for unfair assumptions about the other person's intentions.

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And so we talk a lot about approaching conflict with curiosity and trying to understand someone

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else's perspective and not really making assumptions about their intentions and why

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something occurred.

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Anyway, I just wanted to quickly add that in.

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From a personal standpoint, boundaries are really important.

427
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I'm a mom of three.

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I have a pretty active academic life.

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I have a lot of hobbies as well outside of medicine, outside of healthcare that just

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helped me find peace.

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I'm not living as small as going on a lot of walks.

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I'm doing a lot of swimming now.

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I'm gardening.

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So those are things that just bring me personal joy and I like to carve space for that.

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So I think adding in boundaries took a while for me.

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And when I mean boundaries, I'm actually meaning like time on the calendar, like physical blocking

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of time and space in my life.

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And that took me, again, also some time to recognize that that's okay to do.

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I started off first by just blocking off evenings because at the time when I needed to do that,

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my kids were two, one, three years, like in that range where they were unable to put themselves

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to bed.

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Now they're able to do that a little bit more, which is great.

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And needed me and my husband throughout like every step of the bedtime routine.

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And so I was finding myself in conflict with different demands when I was signing up for,

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let's say, a webinar at like seven o'clock or going to a mixer from six to eight.

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And then my husband's left with all three kids.

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And so just trying to be more protective of that family time, I think, allows me to be

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more present without feeling like, oh, I should be somewhere else right now.

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And it also gave me more courage to just define what brings me value, especially after I sort

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of created that initial boundary and I wasn't fired.

451
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:50,760
My boss has never...

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I don't even know if my boss even knows that I have that boundary.

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And so I think just believing that it'll be okay was important for me too.

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After I blocked off that six to nine window and I realized, oh, wow, nothing's actually

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happening to me, I extended that to weekends.

456
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:12,320
And I do very little as well from a professional standpoint on the weekends.

457
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:17,520
I try to really just dive into the moment with my kids or with my husband or even on

458
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:23,800
my own doing stuff for myself with my girlfriends and just taking that time really, really seriously.

459
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:30,800
I think actually as a consequence, I've been able to move my career faster and more in

460
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:36,600
a vertical direction because now what I say yes to, I feel like I've really put a lot

461
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:37,840
of thought into it.

462
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:42,200
I've thought about, is this actually going to have measurable impact?

463
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:44,000
Is there going to be clear reward?

464
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:48,560
Are people who are going to be benefiting actually recognizing the benefit of what I'm

465
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:50,480
doing?

466
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:54,760
Because there's sometimes work that we do that we think would benefit folks, but they

467
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:56,600
might not appreciate it.

468
00:31:56,600 --> 00:32:02,680
And so just being very thoughtful of what I say yes to has allowed me to feel the sense

469
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:07,120
of peace that I don't think I've had for a long time.

470
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:13,200
I don't know that there's a large separation between the personal microskills and the professional

471
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:14,200
microskills.

472
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:16,520
In fact, they flop.

473
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:19,780
There's a lot of Venn diagram overlap.

474
00:32:19,780 --> 00:32:26,840
If I could point to one chapter today, I would point to microskills to manage your task list.

475
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:33,320
And when you are in medical school and you're on rotation, many of us are taught back in

476
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:37,480
the day we would carry a pen and an index card and create the list of patients that

477
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:38,480
we had to see.

478
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:42,160
And there were boxes, and then you would check the boxes of all the to-dos for each patient.

479
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:45,560
And then that's how you'd walk your way and work your way through your patient care to

480
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:48,740
get things down rounds for the morning.

481
00:32:48,740 --> 00:32:53,640
So in the same way, many of us were taught to create a task list.

482
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:58,400
And it may be obvious to some people how to prioritize tasks.

483
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:06,480
What we found is actually everybody has different ability and skill around organizing a task

484
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:07,480
list.

485
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:11,880
So in that chapter, we really break it down and talk to the reader about prioritizing

486
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:17,080
perhaps by what you'd like to do the most, prioritizing by timeline, prioritizing by

487
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:23,600
what your supervisor says, I need this sooner rather than later, and helping to have people

488
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:27,800
think about organizing their to-do list.

489
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:33,840
And that translates to the home because sometimes there is the self-care, sometimes there is

490
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:41,120
managing the household, whether you have pets or elderly parents or children, is it time

491
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:42,500
for food preparation?

492
00:33:42,500 --> 00:33:45,720
Is it time for sleep and talking about intentional sleep?

493
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:50,940
We also talk about something called deliberate rest and the importance of taking that time

494
00:33:50,940 --> 00:33:57,620
to yes, move, exercise, yes, sleep, but also naps, walks in nature, sharing meals with

495
00:33:57,620 --> 00:33:59,660
people that you love that love you.

496
00:33:59,660 --> 00:34:05,420
All these things help you be even more focused and even more efficient when you actually

497
00:34:05,420 --> 00:34:10,220
sit down for the deliberate practice, which is the work.

498
00:34:10,220 --> 00:34:14,980
How can developing microskills improve overall performance in the workplace and how can microskills

499
00:34:14,980 --> 00:34:20,780
contribute to building stronger relationships or enhancing collaboration within teams?

500
00:34:21,620 --> 00:34:29,580
Our goal is to really help people identify their own knowledge and skill gaps and create

501
00:34:29,580 --> 00:34:31,740
a plan or path forward.

502
00:34:31,740 --> 00:34:37,700
And I think that is rooted just in our experience being an educator and teaching people various

503
00:34:37,700 --> 00:34:41,700
aspects of being a physician.

504
00:34:41,700 --> 00:34:44,820
And Risa and I have both technical training in that.

505
00:34:44,820 --> 00:34:51,540
We are both trained in ultrasound, which is like a handheld device that we use to image

506
00:34:51,540 --> 00:34:53,220
people's bodies.

507
00:34:53,220 --> 00:34:58,340
And so we have taught many people how to do this particular skill and that always starts

508
00:34:58,340 --> 00:34:59,820
with what do you know?

509
00:34:59,820 --> 00:35:01,300
What don't you know?

510
00:35:01,300 --> 00:35:06,420
And really assessing those movements of the hand and of the eye and of the machine.

511
00:35:06,420 --> 00:35:10,500
So a lot of it is really just trying to learn where are the problem areas.

512
00:35:10,500 --> 00:35:16,220
When we created microskills, our goal was to just allow people to see, yes, under polished

513
00:35:16,220 --> 00:35:23,220
communication there are at least, because we've identified at least seven or eight microskills

514
00:35:23,220 --> 00:35:27,560
that will help you become a more polished communicator.

515
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:31,860
Take a look at the list and see what is the thing that you are not so strong at.

516
00:35:31,860 --> 00:35:37,580
Perhaps it's eye contact, body language, perhaps it's your use of emails, right?

517
00:35:37,660 --> 00:35:43,820
So there's various aspects of communication that you might want to focus on compared to others.

518
00:35:43,820 --> 00:35:47,780
And so the idea is really just seeing what is it that is my weak point?

519
00:35:47,780 --> 00:35:49,140
What are my strengths?

520
00:35:49,140 --> 00:35:52,460
And what should I focus on first?

521
00:35:52,460 --> 00:35:57,500
You mentioned that we are lifelong learners and we are ambitious.

522
00:35:57,500 --> 00:36:07,060
And one of our author talks, the moderator arrived and basically said, this book is a lot.

523
00:36:07,060 --> 00:36:11,980
And it was really refreshing and great feedback to hear that.

524
00:36:11,980 --> 00:36:15,700
And I had a friend that says, you know, Risa, I need to do this step by step because there's

525
00:36:15,700 --> 00:36:16,700
so much in here.

526
00:36:16,700 --> 00:36:19,060
It's a very dense read.

527
00:36:19,060 --> 00:36:24,160
And as Adair mentioned, it's a toolkit and you can jump in, jump out.

528
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:28,860
Our table of contents is really, really granular intentionally so that people can flip to what

529
00:36:28,860 --> 00:36:31,460
they need to read on or want to read on.

530
00:36:31,460 --> 00:36:33,380
You can do it and read it cover to cover.

531
00:36:33,380 --> 00:36:38,020
It's a very efficient read, but also it can be a reference manual.

532
00:36:38,020 --> 00:36:44,700
And that's to say is in the comprehensiveness and in the content, you know, intent to make

533
00:36:44,700 --> 00:36:50,740
it accessible, we know that the person that's going to really resonate with this book has

534
00:36:50,740 --> 00:36:55,460
a growth mindset, wants to be better, wants to grow, wants to be efficient and wants to

535
00:36:55,460 --> 00:36:59,560
figure out, as Adair just pointed out, those gaps.

536
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:05,120
Because, you know, we're usually aware of what we're good at and where we have found

537
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:10,520
success or get praise, but it's those other pieces that might fill in some of the Swiss

538
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:17,080
cheese holes that will really sort of round out the professional picture.

539
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:20,360
We all want to excel at work or at least look good for the boss.

540
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:24,480
How can micro skills help individuals stand out and advance in their careers, especially

541
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:28,640
in highly competitive fields like medicine?

542
00:37:28,720 --> 00:37:29,720
I love this question.

543
00:37:29,720 --> 00:37:33,720
And I think it's probably just worth clarifying to the audience that this book is, yes, written

544
00:37:33,720 --> 00:37:43,120
by two physicians, but it's, I think, we think for anyone in any field at any stage of training,

545
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:48,040
we do think that this book would be most helpful for folks who are entering into the workplace

546
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:52,760
for the first time, or maybe it's one of their earlier jobs.

547
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:56,680
Just because that's when you're learning probably the most, though we think, you know, for a

548
00:37:56,680 --> 00:38:00,360
lifelong learner, you're going to be learning throughout your career.

549
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:07,080
I think, one, we hope that this book removes a lot of the sort of hidden curriculum that

550
00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:08,600
many of us are not taught.

551
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:16,840
I was never taught to understand the organizational chart of your department or of your office.

552
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:21,400
I remember showing up for my first meeting, it was like a big meeting of like 70 people

553
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:26,680
and various folks were talking most of the time and the rest of us were listening.

554
00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:32,520
And I didn't really understand like the hierarchy and who I would report to for certain reasons.

555
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:37,240
And of course I eventually learned that, but it would have been nicer to understand that

556
00:38:37,240 --> 00:38:42,480
every company has like a reporting tree and there's really no true flat hierarchy.

557
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:44,560
There's always going to be someone in charge.

558
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:49,640
And so understanding that dynamic was something that I just had never considered.

559
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:54,960
Another thing is, you know, when I was a chief resident, we would get all sorts of

560
00:38:54,960 --> 00:39:00,160
emails about our schedule, as you can imagine, from tired doctors not wanting to necessarily

561
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:02,760
work seven days in a row.

562
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:12,160
And I learned that the harms of sending an angry email at 3 a.m. can really have longstanding

563
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:14,520
damaging effects on your reputation.

564
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:19,280
So we talk a lot about reputation and how important it is to protect it because it takes

565
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:26,240
a long time to build up a positive reputation and like an instant to ruin that.

566
00:39:26,240 --> 00:39:31,040
And so there's a lot of stuff that no one's going to tell you in a classroom.

567
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:34,800
You're not going to necessarily learn all these details on your orientation day or when

568
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:36,800
you're onboarding at a new job.

569
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:41,440
So this is just an extra toolkit in your pocket that you can reference when you're like,

570
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:47,600
let me make sure I don't do anything egregious and I understand just how a workplace functions.

571
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:54,840
I love the email you talk about sending at 3 o'clock in the morning because that's business

572
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:55,840
101.

573
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:58,480
You know, nothing good happens professionally after 9 p.m. at night.

574
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:03,280
And so if you want to draft something, fine, but draft it and save it to look at tomorrow

575
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:04,280
morning.

576
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:05,280
We have a cup of coffee and the sun's up.

577
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:10,520
So I really appreciate that comment and can totally relate, unfortunately.

578
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:16,480
If I can dovetail, we have found that mid-career and late-career, read the book.

579
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:21,720
And as Adair shared, this is useful no matter what your stage, but the one micro skill

580
00:40:21,720 --> 00:40:26,880
we hear over and over that the mid and late career people say they really learned was

581
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:27,880
on email.

582
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:31,240
And all of us think we've navigated, we've championed email communication.

583
00:40:31,240 --> 00:40:34,360
It's a part of every single workplace and workplace culture.

584
00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:37,700
That's something very simple, like what you just shared, this example.

585
00:40:37,700 --> 00:40:44,880
We talk about, go ahead and put it down, like, you know, get the thought down on paper, you

586
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:47,800
know, draft the email.

587
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:51,800
If it's sort of, you know, chock full of emotion, maybe draft it not on an email so you don't

588
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:57,080
send it accidentally or don't put anybody in the two line, but sort of don't send it,

589
00:40:57,080 --> 00:40:59,520
you know, schedule it to send during the light of day.

590
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:05,840
So it enters someone, someone's inbox during work hours, or to your point, don't send the

591
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:11,880
emotion filled email, you know, save it, reread it and reevaluate sort of what your goals

592
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:14,440
are before you put that out into the universe.

593
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:20,760
Because we text emails, we really emphasize in the book a few times, everything can be

594
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:22,160
shared and forwarded.

595
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:27,320
And Adair, you talked about reputational risk and that's it.

596
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:28,320
I mean, that's everything.

597
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:35,120
It can take you decades to build your reputation and be lost in one angry, rage filled, accidental

598
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:38,800
email at two o'clock in the morning after my beloved New York Yankees lose the World

599
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:39,800
Series.

600
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:43,880
And I appreciate you not raising that, being in Boston or Philly.

601
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:46,320
I was going to say, what about the Red Sox?

602
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:47,320
They're golfing right now.

603
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:48,320
That's okay.

604
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:49,600
We can talk about that.

605
00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:54,320
So Adair, you live in Boston, Risa, you live in Philadelphia.

606
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:57,240
How did you two get connected?

607
00:41:57,240 --> 00:42:01,920
I was in residency thinking about moving to Boston.

608
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:08,080
So I went to residency at NYU, so I was in New York City and wanted to move to Boston

609
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:10,120
for personal reasons.

610
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:15,640
And actually, truly the power of the network, as Risa mentioned earlier, I asked someone

611
00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:20,040
I knew if they had any connections to Boston and they connected me to Risa.

612
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:24,280
She and I had some preliminary discussions about Boston hospitals.

613
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:26,240
I ended up moving here.

614
00:42:26,240 --> 00:42:31,360
And as you sort of alluded to earlier, we had a few follow-up conversations and one

615
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:35,520
was probably the most pivotal was when I was telling her about some of the mentoring that

616
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:37,240
I'm doing.

617
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:45,240
She was very supportive and actually ended the conversation by offering to continue working

618
00:42:45,240 --> 00:42:47,160
together or continue staying connected.

619
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:50,000
And the exact phrase was something to the extent of, if you ever want to write together,

620
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:51,000
let me know.

621
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:55,200
And I think, I'm sure, Chris, you've heard people say, yeah, let me know if you want

622
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:59,520
to work together, hit me up, send me an email, and nothing ever happens.

623
00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:00,520
People don't follow up.

624
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:08,160
I did because Risa at that point had a reputation of being a critical thinker, critical writer.

625
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:13,880
And so I was like, oh, this could be a chance for me as a very self-declared non-writer

626
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:17,240
to learn a craft and to learn from someone who knew what they were doing.

627
00:43:17,240 --> 00:43:24,480
So we started writing together these articles that were not for medical audiences.

628
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:30,640
We were writing for Harvard Business Review, CNBC, Fast Company, just sort of showcasing

629
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:38,280
that the experiences we have in medicine are approachable and relatable to people outside

630
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:42,880
of medicine, like conflict, communication, work-life balance.

631
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:45,040
No matter what field you're in, you're interested in this topic.

632
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:49,000
And so that was a great proof of concept for us.

633
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:53,920
And I think I've always toyed with the idea of it would be amazing to write a book, but

634
00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:56,440
again, I didn't really see myself as a writer.

635
00:43:56,440 --> 00:44:01,060
But I think as the articles were coming out more and more, and I definitely have the thought

636
00:44:01,060 --> 00:44:03,520
process of like, what's the next big step always?

637
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:05,320
I'm always thinking that.

638
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:08,600
The book felt like the next natural progression.

639
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:13,200
And so it was an obvious choice to ask Risa to join with me because we had done so much

640
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:17,760
of this writing together already.

641
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:22,040
You're both tremendously busy, and yet you also both host your own podcast, hopefully

642
00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:25,920
not from 1 to 2 p.m. Eastern time on Tuesdays.

643
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:29,240
How did you each fall into that role, and what should we know about your podcasts, and

644
00:44:29,240 --> 00:44:32,080
how can we follow them to tune in?

645
00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:34,160
I'll start.

646
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:40,040
I love podcasting, and it's been such a joy to join you on your podcast today.

647
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:47,600
So before the pandemic, I had been a guest host on another person's podcast, really enjoyed

648
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:50,800
it, enjoyed the conversation, and enjoyed doing, I guess, one of the micro skills we

649
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:54,160
talked about, growing my network.

650
00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:58,960
Especially I tend to be very curious about many topics, love reading, love learning.

651
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:05,240
And it was an opportunity to have a conversation with someone about their subject matter expertise.

652
00:45:05,240 --> 00:45:12,080
When COVID happened, not only did Adair and I start writing mainstream outlet articles,

653
00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:17,880
I also decided to start a podcast, and that podcast is called The Visible Voices.

654
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:24,240
And on it, I feature people who are subject matter experts or just doing interesting things,

655
00:45:24,240 --> 00:45:29,840
and in the categories, on the topics, in the spaces of healthcare, equity, and current

656
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:31,400
trends.

657
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:36,560
And I recently started hosting a second podcast, which is essentially bimonthly.

658
00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:41,680
It's an academic emergency medicine podcast for medical educators, and it's based on a

659
00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:46,020
journal called Academic Emergency Medicine Education and Training.

660
00:45:46,020 --> 00:45:49,420
And we highlight an article in each episode.

661
00:45:49,420 --> 00:45:55,460
So those are my two, and it just allows conversations, and it's a way of actually, I think the thread

662
00:45:55,460 --> 00:46:01,140
I use to pull it all together is storytelling, both amplifying the stories of other people,

663
00:46:01,140 --> 00:46:05,620
and I think in doing so, telling a bit of my own story.

664
00:46:05,620 --> 00:46:08,400
And to clarify, I do not have a podcast.

665
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:11,380
I have tried podcasting and creating one.

666
00:46:11,380 --> 00:46:15,620
I failed miserably, and that was a great lesson for me about just understanding my own skill

667
00:46:15,620 --> 00:46:17,220
set.

668
00:46:17,220 --> 00:46:22,700
I have a nonprofit that is focused on writing, teaching people of color how to write.

669
00:46:22,700 --> 00:46:29,100
And that's largely inspired by my journey learning how to write, as well as my co-founder,

670
00:46:29,100 --> 00:46:30,860
Dr. Flora Dattaboy.

671
00:46:30,860 --> 00:46:38,820
We both are women of color who have taken various writing courses and felt a bit isolated

672
00:46:38,820 --> 00:46:43,620
as far as just the demographics of the class, who's teaching the class, what authors are

673
00:46:43,620 --> 00:46:47,940
being highlighted as far as the readings, and so we wanted to create a place that felt

674
00:46:47,940 --> 00:46:54,540
like it was a little bit more inclusive, actually a lot more inclusive, deliberately inclusive,

675
00:46:54,540 --> 00:47:00,540
and also free so that it's accessible to all, similar to this idea of learning is limitless.

676
00:47:00,540 --> 00:47:03,860
We also add to that line, if it is accessible.

677
00:47:03,860 --> 00:47:08,420
So our nonprofit is focused on teaching people of color how to write for free.

678
00:47:08,420 --> 00:47:11,740
Yeah, Dara, where can people learn more about your nonprofit?

679
00:47:11,740 --> 00:47:16,100
We have a website, writingincolor.org, and we just actually finished partnering with

680
00:47:16,100 --> 00:47:18,820
Boston Public Schools for the summer teaching students there.

681
00:47:18,820 --> 00:47:24,100
So we're gearing up for the next upcoming summer, and we'll be taking donations very

682
00:47:24,100 --> 00:47:25,100
soon.

683
00:47:25,100 --> 00:47:26,100
All right.

684
00:47:26,100 --> 00:47:28,340
For the shameless solicitation plug, what's the website again?

685
00:47:28,340 --> 00:47:29,340
Writingincolor.org.

686
00:47:29,340 --> 00:47:30,340
Thank you.

687
00:47:30,340 --> 00:47:34,180
And, Risa, your podcast, where can they find it, both of them?

688
00:47:34,180 --> 00:47:35,180
Yeah.

689
00:47:35,180 --> 00:47:38,140
So we both have professional websites, which is our name plus MD.

690
00:47:38,140 --> 00:47:42,500
So a Dara Landry MD, Risa E. Lewis, or Risa Lewis MD.

691
00:47:42,500 --> 00:47:47,180
And in addition, I do have a podcast website, thevisiblevoicespodcast.com.

692
00:47:47,180 --> 00:47:51,460
One of the benefits of being on satellite is we can just talk about whatever we want

693
00:47:51,460 --> 00:47:54,420
and plug away.

694
00:47:54,420 --> 00:47:55,420
Sounds great.

695
00:47:55,420 --> 00:47:59,380
So, and for another maybe plug, Voice of America is always looking for more hosts.

696
00:47:59,380 --> 00:48:02,540
So I'm happy to connect you if you want to talk to somebody here.

697
00:48:02,540 --> 00:48:03,540
Cool.

698
00:48:03,540 --> 00:48:04,620
Thank you so much.

699
00:48:04,620 --> 00:48:08,300
What key factors should be considered and what micro skills should we hone when it comes

700
00:48:08,300 --> 00:48:13,860
to setting realistic timelines in the workplace?

701
00:48:13,860 --> 00:48:14,980
That's a great question.

702
00:48:14,980 --> 00:48:20,540
And I think probably something we are always going to be, I'm always going to be learning

703
00:48:20,540 --> 00:48:22,620
how to better refine my timelines.

704
00:48:22,620 --> 00:48:29,140
I think in the beginning, I would just say yes to something because it sounded interesting,

705
00:48:29,140 --> 00:48:33,300
not because I actually had time on my schedule to do it.

706
00:48:33,300 --> 00:48:40,820
And so I found the idea of if you want to do it, you'll make time, not necessarily true

707
00:48:40,820 --> 00:48:41,820
for me.

708
00:48:41,820 --> 00:48:46,980
I feel like I need to keep my boundaries applicable.

709
00:48:46,980 --> 00:48:53,060
I need to make sure that I'm still resting and I have time for my family in order for

710
00:48:53,060 --> 00:48:56,620
me to be happy doing the work I have said yes to.

711
00:48:56,620 --> 00:49:05,460
And so now I spend a lot more time upfront asking what it is about the opportunity that

712
00:49:05,460 --> 00:49:09,180
seems like it might align with me or maybe be better for someone else.

713
00:49:09,180 --> 00:49:14,900
I just was asked to speak at a conference on Monday, someone emailed me yesterday.

714
00:49:14,900 --> 00:49:19,220
And I was like, this conference isn't perfectly aligned with me or even closely aligned with

715
00:49:19,220 --> 00:49:20,220
me.

716
00:49:20,220 --> 00:49:24,300
And so I sent them three or four other names of someone who would just be better in that

717
00:49:24,300 --> 00:49:25,300
space.

718
00:49:25,300 --> 00:49:32,980
And so learning how to turn things down, that upfront work I think is really so poorly taught

719
00:49:32,980 --> 00:49:38,100
that we end up focusing so much more on how do we clean up this mess in front of us.

720
00:49:38,100 --> 00:49:42,380
And if you spend a lot more time thinking about what you say yes to, you don't have

721
00:49:42,380 --> 00:49:48,620
to worry about all these Pomodoro methods or the Eisenhower chart where you're like

722
00:49:48,620 --> 00:49:54,740
the two by two quadrants of yes now, no urgent.

723
00:49:54,740 --> 00:49:58,460
That's all downstream effect because you haven't really been strategic about what you have

724
00:49:58,460 --> 00:50:00,140
said yes to.

725
00:50:00,140 --> 00:50:07,060
And so I think there's this emphasis of just, for me, screening, screening, screening, screening,

726
00:50:07,060 --> 00:50:09,420
so that I don't have to worry as much.

727
00:50:09,420 --> 00:50:14,540
And I think I'm in this transition point where I have stuff from two years ago that I said

728
00:50:14,540 --> 00:50:17,160
yes to then that I want to clean up.

729
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:22,280
But now, like I said, the threshold is so much higher for me to say yes because I want

730
00:50:22,280 --> 00:50:28,760
the stuff that I do agree to do to finish, to go to completion, to have measurable impact,

731
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:31,920
to feel like it's helped someone and it's helping others.

732
00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:35,280
And so that just requires a little bit more upfront digging.

733
00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:39,640
I'll share, Seth Godin wrote a book called The Dip and in The Dip he talks about quitting

734
00:50:39,640 --> 00:50:44,240
things regularly, specifically the things that aren't bringing joy or that are basically

735
00:50:44,240 --> 00:50:48,000
in a cul-de-sac going around, around and not coming back up again from the dip in the

736
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:49,600
road.

737
00:50:49,600 --> 00:50:52,160
And I actually am a fan of the Pomodoro.

738
00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:57,200
When I have an unstructured day, sitting for 25 minutes and focusing on one task, taking

739
00:50:57,200 --> 00:51:03,120
a break, task switching to another task, 25 minutes, and then if I do nine Pomodoros,

740
00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:08,520
I've gotten amazing progress on nine different things and move them all forward.

741
00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:13,560
Time is something that we think that we just have to adopt the culture of our workplace.

742
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:17,920
And in certain ways we do, like we know when we start, we know when we end, but the concept

743
00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:23,640
of meetings and time, I think has so much more flexibility and negotiability than we

744
00:51:23,640 --> 00:51:24,960
think.

745
00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:28,120
Every single Zoom meeting need not be one hour.

746
00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:32,440
One hour meetings can often be 30 minutes, 30 minute meetings can often be 15 minutes,

747
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:37,120
15 or 20 minute meetings might be able to be a text, an email or a quick phone call.

748
00:51:37,120 --> 00:51:43,520
So I think people realizing the health of taking control of their time and their calendars

749
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:49,920
is something that benefits everybody, not just the person who's setting boundaries on

750
00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:54,480
their calendar, but also on the recipient end, you've just given back time to someone

751
00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:56,080
else in their day.

752
00:51:56,080 --> 00:51:57,080
So it's win-win.

753
00:51:57,080 --> 00:52:00,600
Dr. Darrell Andry And time is something we're out of.

754
00:52:00,600 --> 00:52:04,800
Dr. Darrell Andry and Dr. Risa Lewis, I really appreciate you being here today.

755
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:06,640
I know how busy you are.

756
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:10,240
And as always, my producer, Eric, wrote way too much content for me, so I'd love to have

757
00:52:10,240 --> 00:52:13,680
you both back on so we can talk more about micro skills and have a 2.0 version of the

758
00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:14,680
conversation.

759
00:52:14,680 --> 00:52:15,680
Dr. Risa Lewis That would be wonderful.

760
00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:16,680
Dr. Darrell Andry Yes.

761
00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:18,960
Dr. Chris Meek And thank you for being with us to our audience,

762
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:22,600
which now includes people in over 50 countries, for joining us for another episode of Next

763
00:52:22,600 --> 00:52:23,600
Steps Forward.

764
00:52:23,600 --> 00:52:24,600
I'm Chris Meek.

765
00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:29,000
For more details and upcoming shows and guests, please follow me on Facebook at facebook.com

766
00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:34,160
forward slash ChrisMeekPublicFigure and Annex at ChrisMeek underscore USA.

767
00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:37,800
We'll be back next Tuesday, same time, same place, with another leader from the world

768
00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:41,760
of business, politics, public policy, sports or entertainment.

769
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:49,880
Until then, stay safe and keep taking your next steps forward.

770
00:52:49,880 --> 00:52:52,660
Thanks for tuning in to Next Steps Forward.

771
00:52:52,660 --> 00:52:57,840
Be sure to join Chris Meek for another great show next Tuesday at 10 a.m. Pacific Time

772
00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:02,720
and 1 p.m. Eastern Time on the Voice America Empowerment Channel.

773
00:53:02,720 --> 00:53:05,720
This week, make things happen in your life.