The Positive and the Possible w/ Donna Orender

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There are few things that make people successful.

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Taking a step forward to change their lives is one successful trait, but it takes some

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time to get there.

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How do you move forward to greet the success that awaits you?

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Welcome to Next Steps Forward with host Chris Meek.

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Each week, Chris brings on another guest who has successfully taken the next steps forward.

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Now here is Chris Meek.

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Hello.

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You found this week's episode of Next Steps Forward with Chris Meek, and I'm your host,

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Chris Meek.

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As always, it's a pleasure and honor to have you with us.

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Our focus is on personal empowerment, a commitment to wellbeing, and the motivation to achieve

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more than ever thought possible.

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And we have another outstanding guest this week.

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Donna Orendor was the Women's National Basketball Association Commissioner and President for

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six years.

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During that time, she revitalized the brand and created growth in attendance, television

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ratings, digital reach, event development, merchandise sales, and sponsorship growth.

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Prior to the WNBA, Donna spent 17 years at the PGA Tour, where she was an executive in

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the commissioner's office.

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That's where she developed and led global production, programming, distribution brand,

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and digital businesses.

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Currently, Donna is the CEO of Orendor Unlimited and continues her work with Generation W,

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a nonprofit she founded in 2012 with a focus on educating, inspiring, and connecting women

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and girls in the service of building community.

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A Hall of Fame athlete at Queens College and an inductee in the International Jewish Sports

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Hall of Fame, Donna is a sought after speaker on leadership, teamwork, motivation, and gender

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and diversity issues.

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Donna Orendor, welcome to Next Steps Forward.

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Thank you, Chris.

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I wanted to applaud you after that beautiful introduction.

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I was really inspired.

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Well, you're very inspiring, so I appreciate you giving me something to read here.

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So thank you.

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Well, it wasn't my introduction, it was the introduction to you, but okay.

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Let's have some fun today.

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So let's just go right to it.

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We have to talk about what, or I should say who, everyone in the sports world and beyond

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is talking about, Kaitlin Clark.

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Yes.

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You know what?

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I don't think I've had such joy in talking about something as much as I have her, right?

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She gives you plenty to talk about, right?

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Well, she is a generational player among many.

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I know I've always said that she rises, right, thanks to the hard work and the pioneering

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play of so many, not only that have come before her, but also play beside her.

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But she's been able to capture the imagination of a fan base, not only here, but globally,

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has turned people on to women's basketball in a way that is validating, exciting, incredibly

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fun, and also really is building a business in a way that we always knew could be built.

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But thank you, Kaitlin.

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You know, it's funny you talk about how she's raising the visibility and profile of the

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game, and certainly for women athletes.

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And my wife, I have a 12-year-old son who's a big baseball player, loves ESPN.

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It's always on in the kitchen when he and I are making some food.

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For the first time, I think, ever in my 24 years of marriage, my wife actually stopped

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to watch ESPN in the night when Kaitlin Clark, they were talking about her record for rookie

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double-doubles.

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So, I mean, if you're getting to my wife, that is pretty impressive.

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So congratulations to Kaitlin and the league, because that's no easy feat.

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Well, you know, not only that, but I can tell you, absolutely true, how many men, many friends

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of mine, Hall of Famer athletes in the NFL, right, will say, I have to confess, and you

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like kind of think, oh, do I want to hear this?

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I've watched the WNBA game from beginning to end, right?

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Over and over and over again, people are watching and enjoying and saying, oh, my gosh.

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And I have to just tell you, if I can, you know, way early when I was there, and we're,

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you know, fighting the battles and getting it out there, and I go into different markets

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and speak, and there's all these guys in the back of the room, and they would say, well,

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you know, blah, blah, blah, blah.

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And then I'd say to them, have you ever been to the game?

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And they said, no.

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And I'd be like, I call it my zeros.

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It's like, I'd like to get my zeros to the game, because once they do, they'll become

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tens.

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But I was really amazed at how many people were so free to be critical before they ever

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saw the women play.

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And Kaitlin, you know, God bless her, she's bringing a lot of eyeballs to see all of the

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talent.

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But when you talk about men watching games, so our middle daughter was a basketball player.

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I live outside New York City in Connecticut.

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And so a few years ago, I took my daughter to see the New York Liberty play in Westchester

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County.

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And then right before the show today, I got a pop up from the Hartford Courant.

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Apparently, the Connecticut Sun have a game coming up in Boston.

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And there's controversy about whether they're going to move to Boston or stay.

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And I'm like, oh, God, I hope they stay.

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I hope they stay.

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And so now, so I'm like, you know, I should have had my Connecticut Sun jersey on to wear

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today for the show.

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But she's truly a generational athlete, obviously.

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Yeah, true.

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And I've been following the Connecticut Sun, and I've spent a lot of time up at the Mohegan

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Sun.

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Mitchell Edison originally purchased the team with the leadership of the Mohegan Sun tribe.

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And I think they've sold 17,000 tickets for the TD Garden, which is really remarkable.

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I don't know that they're moving to Boston.

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I don't know if that's a business deal that can get done.

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But needless to say, there's a lot of excitement up in that area and what you want, right?

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You're building a business.

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That's what you want.

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So it's great.

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Absolutely.

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And maybe as a follow-up, what marketing strategies should the WNBA employ to maximize Caitlyn's

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star power and grow the league's audience?

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I think they're doing a lot of really great things now.

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I'm not sure they were ready in the beginning.

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You know, I'm not sure they anticipated.

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I always thought, I remember doing an interview when she was still in college, and someone

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said, well, do you think her audience will follow her to the WNBA?

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Absolutely.

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Absolutely.

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Now, traditionally, we haven't seen that kind of follow-on.

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But there was no doubt the avidness of her audience and others.

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Like, look at Angel Reese.

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She's bringing her audience.

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Cameron Brink, unfortunately, she's got injured.

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But, you know, Diana Taurasi has her audience.

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If you look at Asia Wilson, I mean, there are audiences now that are really very, very

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committed.

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They are fans who are fanatical.

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Well, great.

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No pun intended there, obviously.

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So our oldest daughter, she's going to be a senior at UConn.

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So obviously, it's been a great run in UConn basketball, you know, the last several years.

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The women have just been dominating for 20 years.

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The men are back.

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And so my oldest daughter, who, again, wasn't really a big sports fan, now she's watching

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the WNBA.

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She's watching the Olympics.

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And she's seeing all these people that have gone to UConn or went to, you know, economics

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class with her, whatever.

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And so it's just fun to see that transformation in terms of women in leadership, women in

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sports leadership.

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Obviously you were a pioneer in that.

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And so just, you know, kudos to you for helping develop the league to where it is today.

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And certainly those that have followed in your very big footsteps to follow.

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You know, sticking with Caitlin here, more than a few writers and critics have pointed

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out the supposedly, you know, quote, extra hazing and rough treatment that she's received.

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Yes.

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They're saying older players are not only jealous of her stardom, but they risk killing

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the goose that lays the golden eggs for them.

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Yeah.

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What's your perspective?

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I've read all that.

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Well, first of all, I will tell you that I was there, and our golden goose at the time,

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and she's still very golden, was Candace Parker.

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And you know, she's coming out of Tennessee.

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I remember meeting her coming out of high school, I think even.

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And she was that big a star, right?

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And she's still a star, right?

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Now she's the president of Women's at Adidas.

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She does commercials.

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And the players were hard on her.

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They really went after her.

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I don't think that this is new.

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Do I think they're being a little more targeted with Caitlin?

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I do.

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I do.

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I think it brings out the competitive juices in everyone.

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I was at the PGA Tour when Tiger came out, and obviously golf's not a contact sport,

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but there was lots of behind the scenes, like who is he, and how come they're not following

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us on television, blah, blah.

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And so everyone kind of hit a rhythm.

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And I think now people are kind of hitting a rhythm.

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They're respecting her for the game that she has, which is going to continue to develop

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in its greatness.

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And understand that there is enough for everyone, and everyone together makes the whole better.

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So I don't think they're going to kill the golden egg or the golden goose.

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So I don't think that's going to happen.

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I think there is a growing appreciation.

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I think there's always jealousy by some.

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You're never going to...

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And I don't know why the press chooses to pick those couple of comments out.

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When you play in large, you have a league that's really supportive of her.

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For the elephant in the room, personal and professional opinion, should she have made

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the Olympic team?

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In my personal opinion, I think she should have.

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I think it was...

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I understand, maybe, sort of.

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I think it was short-sighted for them not to choose her.

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After all, if you looked at the men's Olympic team, they picked young players.

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They didn't play a lot.

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But there's an understanding that you kind of bide your time in some ways.

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She is a big part of the future of USA basketball, American basketball, global basketball.

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All eyes are on her.

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When you're building, wouldn't you want to bring one of the global stars to the world

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in the most visible platform that you have?

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I think it was short-sighted on their part.

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Obviously, the coach has her say, but she has a committee that helps her select.

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They had some reasons.

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They were wrong.

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I can say that. You can't.

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I think they could have made another choice.

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Before we talk about the WNBA's big picture, I'd like to talk about another young athlete first,

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named Donna Orender.

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You were a five-sport athlete in high school.

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I didn't even know that was possible.

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I was seven.

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I played seven actually.

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Seven?

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I'll have to yell at my editor for that.

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I played seven.

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Did you play football?

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Did you play volleyball?

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No, I played volleyball.

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I played softball.

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I played field hockey.

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I played basketball.

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I ran track.

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I vaulted.

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I was on the gymnastics team.

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I have to tell you, one night I'm out with all of these women.

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I was out on this women's leadership trip.

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They were talking about what sports they played.

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They were cheerleading.

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They were running.

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We had the girls cheerleaders.

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I said, cheerleading, they go, yeah, that's a sport.

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I said, well, then I was a cheerleader too.

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I love it.

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Now, we're at eight.

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That makes seven.

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I get it.

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You excelled in basketball.

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First, you tell me about your role on the Elmont High School tennis team.

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I didn't even mention tennis.

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That was actually my first sport that I really loved.

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I loved playing.

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I love sports by the way.

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I love the freedom it can give you.

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builds you physically, you can have this sense of presence. I know that you support those in the

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military in such a wonderful way. And I'll never forget when I took my son to West Point to watch

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a women's basketball game, and he didn't really know where we were. And he looked around, he goes,

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you know, mom, they do a lot of working out here. I think I want to come, right?

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So there's just this sense of physical freedom, but also this idea of mental and emotional

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connectivity to it all. I always talked about how it's important to build your inner strength,

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but also your external strength, and that part of you that allows you to be part of something

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bigger than yourself. And I think sports has always done that for me, and I know that it

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does for so many. I don't care what level of sports you play, but play, and I don't care how

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old you are, play, because it's such a valuable, valuable thing in our lives. So for me, I played

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all those sports. I found tennis. I wanted to excel at tennis. I was recognized for my tennis,

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and I wanted to play at my high school, and I couldn't because there was no girls' tennis team.

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And so, I don't know, honestly, I was 14. I don't know what ever came into me, but I decided I would

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ask the coach if I could play on the boys' tennis team. And there was nothing around me that ever

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said that that was possible. I don't know that I've ever let that excuse or lack of seeing something

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inhibit my ability to see something and then be able to say, why not? And so, I asked the coach.

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It was this old Marine. He maybe wasn't that old, but he was a lot older than me. He had gray hair.

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I thought he was old. He was a really nice man. He had a scruffy voice, and he was like,

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you want to play on the boys' tennis team? I'm like, yeah. He told me, be here on Friday at

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four o'clock. And I had to play a guy who's a friend of mine, and if I beat him, I was going

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to be on the boys' tennis team. And like many young women of my day, but I hear not so much,

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and maybe still every day, it's like, I really like Marnie. Should I beat him? And I'm like,

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yeah, let's beat him. And so, I did, and I made the boys' tennis team. And I was always really

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proud of that. I mean, I think every time you build in your life, and I always say to people

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who say, well, how do I do this? Think back in the times in your life where you made an incremental

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change or push or success, and hold on to that. And remember that that built a muscle memory in

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your body, as well as an emotional memory in your brain. And you can build on that. And so,

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once I knew that I could do that, I think it encouraged me to continue to think in that way.

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So, let's stick with that theme of thinking in that way. You turned down an academic scholarship

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from the University of Chicago. I did. Let me reiterate that. The University of Chicago,

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which has been ranked as one of the most prestigious universities in the country.

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And you turned it down to play basketball at Queens College.

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I did. One of the most prestigious basketball programs in the country.

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How did you know that was the right decision for you? Was it head, heart, or gut decision?

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First of all, my parents at the time really didn't understand what the University of Chicago meant.

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They were just worried whether it was safe or not. I, as a 15-year-old, sat in the bleachers at

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Queens College when they played Immaculata for the national championship. And, you know,

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it's stories now. It's history. At that point, you know, the nuns. It was a Catholic school.

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And the nuns came in their habits. And they had pails. And they had wooden spoons. And they would

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make noise. And it was the most exciting thing I'd ever seen. And I said, I want to play here.

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That's the level. I want to play at the highest level and be part of one of the best teams in

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the country. And I said, I want to go play at Queens College. Because there weren't many

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scholarships. I had one other one. And so that's what really... I figured I could figure out the

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academics. And that's fine. But I really wanted to play basketball, which is really kind of out

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of the ordinary at the time. There weren't many of us who thought that that was the coolest,

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best thing to do. So after Queens College, you started pursuing a master's degree in social work

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at Adelphi University, but dropped out to play in a forerunner of the WNBA, the Women's Professional

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Basketball League. What were you going to do with a master's degree in social work?

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I was going to do what I think I'm doing now, which is contribute to the world being a better

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place. It was really funny. I mean, that's why I wanted to become a social worker. I wanted to help

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people be their best selves. At Generation W, I get to help people be their best selves. Playing

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in the league and having the platform as a, whether it's a sports executive or as a professional

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athlete, I get to help people be their best selves. So I have to say that studying psychology that I

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did, studying social work as I did, I think it all helped to contribute to this ongoing desire of

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mine to contribute, like to leave the world a little bit better than you got here.

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It's the Athenian oath. I quote that all the time on the show.

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And I love that, help people be a better self. I love that. So thank you for sharing that because

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we'd like to take sound bites away from every show to make you feel a bit better about yourself

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and go out and do good in the world like you're doing. So here's an easy one to ask athletes.

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I'm sorry, it's a tough question. Sorry.

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Oh, I love that you're asking me as an athlete. That makes me feel so good. Go ahead.

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Once an athlete, always an athlete. You were one of only 20 women to play all three seasons before

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the WBL folded. Yeah.

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And after that, you wrote an article for the New York Times titled,

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quote, making a dream come true and watching it fade away.

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And that seems like an especially poignant, more bitter than sweet reflection.

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It was. Actually, I keep that article never too far away from me and I do refer to it because as

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I ran the WNPA, I would pull it out and think, and this is what, 25 years later, things haven't

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changed that much, right? The issues that we had then are the issues that we had when I was there

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and the issues that we still have now, although we are breaking through, we really are.

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But here I was, I was 24, 23 years old and my career was over. And first of all, it was a

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career I never thought I would have. So think about that, right? I never thought I would be

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a professional athlete. There was nothing that would tell me in my horizon that women, especially

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basketball players, would have a place to play, a league to play and get paid. Nothing. Right.

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And at that point in time, there was nothing to tell me that I would be a president or a

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commissioner of a league, especially after the WPL kind of faded away. But it was one of the

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greatest times of my life. I got to wake up every morning and do what I love. I got to, you know,

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the biggest decision I had to pick out was at that point when you had, you wore like these crew socks

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and they had like rims of color on them. And I wanted to make sure they matched my shorts.

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I mean, now I watch these women, they're so elegantly like have their makeup on and then

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some of them with their eyelashes and their hair. Like, I just want to make sure my shorts

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match my shorts and that I could train at the highest level and, you know, play the best

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basketball that I could. And I met people from all over, from all over the country,

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all over the world. I mean, basketball took me everywhere. I just, I loved it. And I learned a

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lot about business and I learned about how people felt about women and how they felt about women in

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sports. And that has truly guided me in terms of how to move forward in my life and wanting to

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advance women and especially women in sport. So my listeners and viewers know I'm a huge

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country music fan and there's a song, one of the verses is, do what you love and call it work.

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And you just said that. And you have to be incredibly, feel blessed to be able to say

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that as part of your life, your legacy or your career. And so a lot of us are jealous for you

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being able to say that. So I'm thrilled to hear you say that. But you know how I really feel,

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Chris, is that we all can say that. We all could make that happen. I think it's a matter of

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perspective, right? How do you look at your work? What is important to you? And then how do you find

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those important moments in your work? And, you know, I always used to say I worked at the PGA

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Tour for 17 years. I loved it, was valued and instrumental in helping to build that business.

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But I didn't get excited as much as I love Tiger Woods and I hope he watches your podcast.

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Getting up and my job was to make him more money every day. No, I felt like my job was to make the

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communities in which we played better. Yes, to advance our business, increase our revenue,

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all of those other things. But those other things actually helped motivate me

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every day when I came to work. And Tiger enabled that. So yes, if I make Tiger Woods more work,

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more money, there's more money to help it in all the other areas where the work that we did made

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an impact. So I think, you know what I mean? Yep, absolutely. And I hope Tiger's listening

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and watching too. And maybe we can help that along a little bit here. So getting back to WNBA,

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it seems so much of the excitement, as we mentioned, for the league is now based on

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Caitlin Clark. Just as the PGA's popularity soared 20, 25 years ago, when that transcendent

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player named Tiger Woods came into view. Yeah. How do you view the league's current growth

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trajectory and maybe more importantly, its potential? Oh, I think it's enormous. So,

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you know, it's interesting. It's one thing you want to build your businesses, right? So I remember

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at one point we put together P&Ls for all of our team, we'd work with our presidents, we worked

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with all their sales teams. We want to show that teams can be profitable. But interestingly enough,

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even in that time, most sports were not cash flowing. You know, maybe Major League Baseball

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had 50%, the NBA. It's changed now. But what you really look at in the world of sports is the asset

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value of a team. And I'll never forget sitting down with a very close friend of mine who worked

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in the soccer business. Our teams both had the same value, they're about $10 million a franchise.

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His are now like $900 million. For the first time since the WNBA launched,

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asset value has dramatically increased, right? We're seeing $100 million valuation. The Dallas

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Wings just recently announced, Greg Bibb, that they sold off small units, small matters, that

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would give them a $208 million valuation. So what we're seeing now is a true rising of the asset

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value of a team, which brings in investors, generates more interest, will elevate the pay

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scale of the players. I mean, now you're beginning to see an economic payout in addition to the

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popularity. And that is an incredibly important and valuable growth science for this league.

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Well, and maybe we can stick with the finance of sports here for a few minutes.

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Sure.

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Let's roll from basketball to golf.

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Okay.

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And specifically your time with the PGA. So I saw the headline of an old article that reads,

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quote, the tour's Donna Orender didn't make herself the most important woman in golf

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by being a pushover. One of the ways you became the most important woman in golf was by negotiating a,

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yes, the number's correct, $400 million television contract for the PGA.

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Actually, that's interesting. They quoted $400 million. Actually, it was a billion dollars,

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I have to tell you.

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Let's make it $2 billion.

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No, no, it wasn't. No, let's be real. It was about a billion.

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That's a big dollar amount.

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It was big, especially from where they were, especially from where they were.

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So for those in business and particularly women in business, what were the key strategies you

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used in those negotiations and how'd you prepare for such a high stakes negotiation?

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Well, first of all, I hired this great guy, this consultant who was like a wizard in the

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business. And he and I would kind of like lock ourselves away and then really whiteboard

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everything. So here's where we are now. This is what drives these revenues, but what is possible?

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Look at the technology that we currently were using. What was the technology that was possible?

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Where were our fans and what were they looking for? And then really redrew, we really redrew

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the kind of entire landscape of professional golf on television.

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We created early round packages. We repackaged the networks. I guess the thing about whether

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you're popular or not, if you're going to move somebody's cheese, they're not going to like it.

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But at the end of the day, we created tremendous growth for the league that they had not seen

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before and kind of reset the storytelling, if you will, of the tour and the players that played

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them. We launched a whole new production company. At this point in time, nobody had their own media

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network. Everyone wasn't their own media network. At that point in time, a guy, an athlete talking

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to a microphone was a big deal. You had to build trust. It was a great time. It was a great time.

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And was that contract prior to Tiger joining the league or after?

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Well, I did two of them. I'm just trying to think whether the first one was with Tiger or without.

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I can't remember. But I was there. Yeah, Tiger was just coming out, I think. It was just coming out.

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So there's an old saying about negotiating, and I've done this for 25 years,

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and that is no one leaves a successful negotiation completely happy. Do you think that's true?

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I think successful negotiations, I would agree with you that you have to give. I mean,

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we can jump right into politics, although we're not going to talk about politics. But the point

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is, is that we have to each be willing to give to get, right? And understanding what somebody wants,

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right? So I understood what the networks wanted and say, okay, you're going to get this, this,

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and this. Here's what I need. At the end of the day, though, there's money. It comes down,

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there's a number. And you want to be able to get that number as high as you can, but without

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leaving your partner in desperate straits, because then it's not a good partnership.

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You know, you want to build something you can build on. So I think that your assumption is a

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good one. And I do think that a good negotiation leaves people perhaps wanting a little bit more,

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perhaps wanting a little bit more, or maybe

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thinking they could have done better, because you never quite know.

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But if you leave feeling that you have a good partner, that you can build a good business,

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that you can keep an open negotiation and an ongoing partnership with, I think that's really

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valuable. And how did the contract you negotiated impact the PGA in its success? And where do you

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rank it among your professional accomplishments? Oh, you know, no one's ever asked me that

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question, actually. You know, I think any deal or any change has to be appreciated within the

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context of when it would happen. And I would say, in the context of time of where the PGA Tour was

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in its business, and what we were able to accomplish, I think it's one of really one of the

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top highlights of my career, and being able to achieve what we did. We created the World Golf

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Championships, which you see today. We created early round coverage, which you see today.

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We set the stage for all their digital coverage that you see today. We launched pgatour.com. I

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mean, we did a tremendous, we launched PGA Tour Radio. That was one of my favorite stories, right?

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We have all this advanced technology. And I was a kid who used to listen to Ralph Kiner and the

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New York Mets with my dad in the garage. And I remember that, that intimate feeling, like being

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with my dad, and he loved the Mets. So of course, I love the Mets. And I thought, you know what,

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I watched every minute I could of PGA Tour golf because I needed to for my work. But I said,

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wouldn't it be great that I could put it on a radio and just listen to it? And you know, now with

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all the streams that we have, people say, oh, of course, easy. But at that point, people thought

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I was crazy. What? You're going to put PGA Tour golf on radio? They couldn't separate the fact

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that, yes, you can listen to baseball. And sure enough, I found a great partner. And Sirius,

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at that point, was XM Radio and Eric. And we created it. And it's thriving today.

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Did you ever think when you were playing basketball in college with the nuns with

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their wooden spoons and the buckets and their version of a cowbell, for lack of a better word,

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that you would have become the sport powerhouse that you have?

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I don't know that I would consider myself a sport powerhouse. But no, you know,

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I never had that vision, Chris. I never did it. And I'll tell you this weekend,

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I was in Philadelphia. I'm the commissioner of baseball for basketball for this USA team that

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will be going to another country next summer. And I had to recruit about 25 coaches, basketball

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coaches, men and women. And I was really, really touched. And one of my young coaches, he's

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probably in his 30s. And he said to me, you know, I consider you a mentor. You're teaching me about

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leadership. And I looked at him, and it was really kind. And it was sweet. And I'm thinking

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in my heart, I'm just a kid wearing my shoes, my basketball shoes. I just want to play just like

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you. And I had to remember, wait, I have accomplished a lot. And I've been in a lot

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of places. So I probably have wisdom to share. Congratulations to you and all you've done.

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You know, we mentioned earlier the show is about personal empowerment. You've touched on this a

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little bit. Now maybe we can get into a little bit more of your passion. Empowerment is the

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cornerstone of Generation W, the nonprofit you founded that's highly respected for its holistic

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approach of combining education, mentorship, and community support to have women and girls reach

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their full potential. Was there a specific event that led you to create Generation W? Or was it

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more of a long running sense that more need to be done to empower girls and women?

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I think there were several, probably. I mean, the first one I recall, it was a long time ago,

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there was a woman. Her name was Lauren Zalasnick, who worked at Bravo and then NBC.

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And at the time, she was at NBC. And she brought together like 50 women from different industries

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to NBC. Because NBC had the women of NBC, and I was invited. And sports industry, there's oil and gas,

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finance, media, across the gamut. And I kind of just sat there. And I looked around the room,

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and I realized that there was this genuine, authentically passionate joy for all of these

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women coming together. And in those days, like there just wasn't those opportunities,

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but it struck me so deeply. And then of course, representing women who play in the WNBA and

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understanding, I've said before in many talks, that I learned about men, the good, the bad and

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the ugly. But I also learned about women, the good, the bad and the ugly as well. And I thought,

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you know what? We I was really surprised. I was really so I wasn't even prepared for

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kind of the racism, the sexism, the homophobia, all those things that kind of come out,

447
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working where I was selling what I was champing and what I was. And so when it was time for me

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to leave the WNBA, I knew that in my heart, that I always would want to be on the forefront of

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working on the behalf of women and girls, amplifying voices, creating opportunities,

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celebrating successes, and creating that moment when women and girls can come together and

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passionately and joyfully and authentically appreciate being together. And that was the

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beginning of Generation W. How do you measure the success of Generation W's programs initiatives?

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Well, we celebrated our 13th year. We have and we continue to expand. We launched Generation

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Wow, which is for our teen girls. We've touched over 12,000 teen girls lives. We are now in the

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process of expanding nationally. We do an annual event called Generation Wow. And then we have

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programs and clubs in schools. We're attracting attention and funding and most importantly,

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girls, because we really built our program thanks to the voices of girls who told us what they

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wanted. And so our ears always to the ground or out in the air saying, OK, what is needed and how do

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we help address providing for those needs? Now, you just mentioned that Generation Wow

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focuses on young girls and teens. What do you hope that they take away from the program and how do

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you see it shaping their futures? Well, we are overarching ethos. Our philosophical ethos is the

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positive and the positive, right? So I know you. It's all about attitude and perspective. And so

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when you come in, if you understand, right, that you have a way to positively shape the world

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as hard as it is. And listen, we're not Pollyanna girls. This world is hard, right? But there's

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possibilities in that hard world. And we can we can do this world. We can do it together.

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That's what we do. And so we have we spend a lot of time with these girls. I wrote a book called

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Wowstrum. When you take the wow of girls and the wisdom of women,

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it's called The Positive Possible, The Girl's Guide. And all of these lessons and we kind of

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shape it around five Cs, if you will. We have confidence. We have community. We have courage.

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We have curiosity, which is truly one of my favorites. And the biggest superpower I think

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we all can have, like me meeting you today, it's about connection, right? How do we connect not

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only with ourselves, but with others? And so we know we're making a difference because the girls

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are telling us we're making a difference. We know we're making a difference because the women tell

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us we're making a difference. And so that is really the fuel, the fire that keeps moving forward.

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So you briefly mentioned your book, and I can't let you get away without asking to put in a plug

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for your bestselling book, Wowstrum, The Girl's Guide to the Positive and the Possible.

477
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Where can our audience find it? Right here on my table. If you'd like one, I can hold it up.

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You can find it on Amazon, or you can just reach out to us at genwnow.com, which is our website.

479
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And then we can ship you one. I think it's a really beautiful book. A friend of mine said,

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if you're going to do a book, do one that's different. So every page is hand-painted by

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this fantastic artist. It's interactive for the girls, but truthfully, it's for the girl and all

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of us. And so my mom would read it at night, and she'd call me, and she goes, oh, I had tears in

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my eyes. I said, why, mom? She goes, well, the stories are so good. And I tend to pick it up a

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lot because we use it for reference, and we've just launched our next school year. And I have

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to say, it's still really relevant and resonant, and we're now looking at our next edition.

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And we do letters every year. It's one of the practices we do do, letters to my younger and

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older self. So we have probably 100 more of those that we can share. And I think there's this

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trust that comes when you understand how people have struggled and they're willing to share,

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how they've soared, how they have scored, how they've fallen down and stumbled. And yet you

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know what they're letting you know is if I can do life, you can do life, and so that we're not

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alone. And so there is this real community connectivity about not being alone. And in

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the world we live in, especially with the impact of social media, which gives us tremendous

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connectivity, but at the same time, paradoxically isolates us, it's important to know that there

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are real people who really care about us so that we can soar. We've got about two or three minutes

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left. If you could give one piece of advice to women aspiring to create their own initiatives

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or nonprofits, what would it be? Oh, wow. I'm looking to my right here. I keep on my

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bulletin board. So every day I have little sayings that I leave up there. And I would say,

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the first one that came to mind is have the courage of your convictions.

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Have the courage of your convictions, right? If you think you can do it, then you can try it.

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And I would also say on that same line, right, that failure is part of success.

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That, okay, you can have your courage, you can be convicted, this is what I want to do.

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And if it doesn't work out, that's okay, because you're learning. Every step of the way,

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you're learning. And if you're open to that learning, then you will succeed. You'll find

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it. It could take some people longer than others, but being open to it is probably the most important

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00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:01,440
thing. And you have to be courageous because it could be scary. There's always going to be

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people telling you, you can't do it. Maybe they're right, maybe they're right, but you know what,

507
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:10,400
you got to go for it. You got to try, right? You don't know unless you try. And like you said,

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failure is part of success. Yes. Donna Orender, we were cut short due to tech issues. I'm really

509
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:21,200
sorry about that. I would love to have you back because this was just so inspirational,

510
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:26,400
educating. I was raised by a single mom. And so seeing somebody like you is just awesome,

511
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:30,320
for lack of a better word. So thank you for being us today. It was a real pleasure and honor.

512
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:35,440
No, no, no. Thank you for finding me. And I'm really so sorry about-

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No, that happens. I hope you miss more. That'd be great.

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It gives you an excuse to come back. Thank you, Chris. I appreciate you and your time

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and thank your team for me as well. I will. And thank you to our audience,

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00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:49,600
which now includes people in over 50 countries, for joining us for another episode of Next Steps

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00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:53,680
Forward. I'm Chris Meek. For more details on upcoming shows and guests, please follow me

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00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:58,880
on Facebook at facebook.com forward slash ChrisMeekPublicFigure and the next at ChrisMeek

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00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:03,760
underscore USA. We'll be back next Tuesday, same time, same place with another leader from the

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00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:09,200
world of business, politics, public policy, sports, or entertainment. Until then, stay safe

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00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:11,040
and keep taking your next steps forward.

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Thanks for tuning in to Next Steps Forward. Be sure to join Chris Meek for another great show

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00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:27,360
next Tuesday at 10 a.m. Pacific time and 1 p.m. Eastern time on the Voice America

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Empowerment Channel. This week, make things happen in your life.