Unhide & Seek w/ Ruth Rathblott

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There are few things that make people successful.

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Taking a step forward to change their lives is one successful trait, but it takes some

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time to get there.

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How do you move forward to greet the success that awaits you?

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Welcome to Next Steps Forward with host Chris Meek.

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Each week, Chris brings on another guest who has successfully taken the next steps forward.

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Now here is Chris Meek.

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Welcome to this week's edition of Next Steps Forward.

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I'm your host, Chris Meek.

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It's great to have you with us again, and it's always fun to reconnect with a dear friend.

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Today's guest is a remarkable woman who brings a wealth of experience in what it takes to

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overcome obstacles, triumph through adversity, and achieve personal empowerment.

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And she's making her second appearance on Next Steps Forward after joining us for the

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first time in March of 2022, which I can't believe.

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Ruth Rathblatt is a TEDx speaker and the author of two bestselling books.

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Single-handedly, Learning to Unhide and Embrace Connection was published in 2022, and her

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latest book, Unhide and Seek, Live Your Best Life, Do Your Best Work, was released just

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last month.

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Ruth has spent her entire career focused on providing opportunities for those who face

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obstacles.

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She's been a leader in nonprofit organizations for more than 25 years, 15 of which she spent

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at Big Brothers, Big Sisters of New York City.

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Ruth is also the former president and CEO of the Harlem Educational Activities Fund,

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and she currently serves on the Goucher College Board of Trustees and is a board member of

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the Lucky Fin Project, which raises awareness and celebrates children and adults, both,

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excuse me, born with limb differences.

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Ruth Rathblatt, welcome back to Next Steps Forward.

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It's the best part of my day, best part of my day, Chris.

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March of 2022.

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That's it.

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What happened?

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That seems like forever ago, right?

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Two and a half years ago?

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Seems like a lot.

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It seems like a long time, and it also seems like a short time, because-

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Absolutely agree.

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I agree.

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So just as we did in March of 22, let's start a conversation at the beginning, and specifically

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your beginning.

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You were born with a limb that didn't fully develop.

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How does that happen, and how did it affect you?

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Sure.

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They're not actually sure how it happened.

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It's called amniotic band syndrome, and it's basically, Chris, where a protein band wraps

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around in utero, wraps around the development of a limb.

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It can affect hands, it can affect legs, it can affect different parts of the body.

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For me, it affected my left hand.

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I was, for your audience, I was born missing part of my left hand.

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It didn't grow formally and officially, fully.

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And what percentage of babies are born with limb differences?

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Yeah, the statistics out there right now are about one in 1,500 or one in 3,000.

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There's still some science behind that research of it's between 1,500 and 3,000, one in.

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And you were born in pre-sonogram days, and your limb difference wasn't known until you

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were born.

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Correct.

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How did your parents react when they learned of your limb difference, and what advice did

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they receive, including from one nurse in particular, about how they should raise you?

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It was, so not to date me, but it was the days before sonograms.

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And even, apparently, according to some of the moms that I've talked to through the Lucky

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Fin Project and other limb difference organizations, not everyone knows, even with sonograms, about

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the limb difference.

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And so when I was born, it was a time where there was not a lot of knowledge about this.

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And the doctor immediately, and the nurses immediately, rushed me out of the room to

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kind of clean me, as that's what they said.

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And the doctor took my father outside into the hallway to explain what happened, so that

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he could go back in and comfort my mom.

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And as they started to talk about it, it's a shock for any child to be born with a difference.

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It's a shock first to have a child be born, right?

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That's a whole process in itself.

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Then you have a child with a physical difference.

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How do you understand that when you're not prepared for that?

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And so the doctor took my father outside the room.

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They came back in, talked to my mother, obviously, and knowingly now, my parents were upset,

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were shocked by it.

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And luckily, in that room, there was a nurse who said, you know what you're going to do?

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You're going to take this little girl home.

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You're going to love her, and you're going to treat her as you would any other child.

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And Chris, that's exactly what my parents did.

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They took me home.

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They encouraged me to try everything.

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This was part of the norm.

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I was no different.

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I love that part of the story.

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Amazing woman.

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Amazing woman.

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So I recall that you started hiding your disability when you were 13 years old, and you said that

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hiding it even became your top priority.

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What caused you to decide that you were no longer going to do it?

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Yeah.

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So that exit from the hospital and all those good feelings about you can do anything, you

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try everything.

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The one space that I would say, and probably to your audience and your listeners, Chris,

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is there was a piece that was missing.

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And it was, how do we open up the conversation about the difference?

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Because it was there.

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Even though I was, again, encouraged to try everything and act, quote unquote, normal,

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this was normal.

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There was something obvious that it wasn't normal totally, right?

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It was part of me that was different.

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And so that space of talking about it was a little bit missing from this conversation

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or from this in the time.

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And so at 13, when I started a new high school, a lot like many of us, Chris, who start new

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schools or new jobs or just new, even moving into a new community, we want to connect with

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people we want to fit in.

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And I got on the yellow school bus that day to go to this new high school and I was 13

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and someone stared just a little bit too long at my hand.

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And they noticed it.

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And my impulsive reaction was to take my little hand and tuck it into my pocket, kind of just

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for that day.

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And as I started going through high school, I kept hiding it and not knowing how to unhide

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it, not knowing how to share it with people because I thought people would think it was

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different.

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I thought people would think it was disgusting.

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I thought people would think it was a monstrous.

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I had built up all these ideas in my head and that hiding followed me from high school

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onto college, onto careers, to dating relationships.

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And it wasn't until I got to a point, Chris, of thinking, this is holding me back from

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dating.

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This is holding me back from connecting with people.

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And so when you ask about that moment, it was probably a series of moments, but the

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moment where I realized I'm not fully, I'm putting up all these walls because when we

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hide parts of ourselves, it's exhausting and it's lonely, but it also, it keeps us feeling

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disconnected from others and from ourselves.

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And so you put up these walls thinking, I'm the only one that feels different.

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I can't show anyone, I can't tell anyone about my difference.

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And Chris, most of us are hiding something and that's what I have come to find out now

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through my journey of unhiding.

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But I will say the impetus to this unhiding was this idea of, I wasn't forming connections

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and relationships in dating.

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And I went to therapy and started to unpack that and what did that mean?

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And luckily for me, I met someone who I invited in to start to share part of that journey

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of how to unhide.

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He taught me how to unhide.

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Weren't you lonely all those years?

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Yeah.

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You know, it's funny.

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I think, yes, because I think hiding is lonely and yet there's almost a facade that you're

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fine, right?

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Because we start to accept that this is the way life is.

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And I've had people, Chris, share with me that they hide their mental health.

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They hide their education backgrounds.

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They hide their financial security.

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They hide their relationship status, religion.

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I mean, think about where we are today in 2024.

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People hide their politics, you know?

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So it's that, it's a sense of loneliness because you think you're the only one with that difference

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of any of those things I mentioned.

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And yet you also, it doesn't mean you're not meeting people and making connections.

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It's just how deep are those connections?

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How well do they truly know you?

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And if they find out that piece of you, this is the big fear.

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If they find out that piece of you, they'll reject you or judge you.

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And so that's what you walk around with.

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That's the loneliness piece is if I tell somebody, they'll reject me or judge me.

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Your first book was about your journey of unhiding after 25 years of Hiding Your Limb

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Difference.

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So before we get into Unhide and Seek, would you share that journey with us?

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And unhiding is your term, beyond the obvious of not hiding.

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What does it mean for somebody to unhide?

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Unhiding is freedom.

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It's the best equation I have for it.

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It's the idea of how do you bring back joy into your life?

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How do you bring back freedom?

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How do you bring back this idea of just feeling like you belong?

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And so the actual act of unhiding is the process of sharing parts of yourself, those pieces

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of you that you may have been hiding for all those years with someone, just one person

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sometimes is all it takes, Chris, of just sharing that piece of you.

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And it's funny, the steps to unhiding, which I've created and are in this next book, but

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came about through my own journey of unhiding and then meeting so many people who have also

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unhidden and it follows four basic steps.

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And the first is acknowledging it first, right?

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Because you can't unhide something you don't acknowledge and you don't see.

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So the first step is acknowledging it.

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It's that self-awareness.

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What am I hiding?

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How is it holding me back from connecting?

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How is it holding me back from thriving?

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How is it holding me back from belonging?

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And how come I don't feel seen or heard?

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I mean, I know for myself, when somebody asked about my leadership and diversity and those

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pieces and they didn't see me as having a disability, I got upset at first, Chris.

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And I said, well, okay, how come?

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I have a physical difference, like a physical disability.

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How come you don't see it?

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And what I realized was I hadn't shared part of my journey with them.

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So of course they weren't seeing and understanding that as a piece of it.

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And I wasn't either.

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I wasn't acknowledging it.

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And so that first step is so critical in this process of unhiding is acknowledging it.

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And then the second step, Chris, is the idea of inviting one person in, just one trusted

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person.

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And I imagine as you're hearing it and your audience is hearing it, there's someone that's

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kind of your go-to that comes to mind, right?

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It's the person who you trust, the person who has empathy.

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The person who asks questions with curiosity and who listens, that's the go-to person

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that you want to share this piece of yourself with, whether it's saying, hey, I just listened

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to this Next Steps Forward podcast with Chris Meek, and he was interviewing a woman who

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talked about hiding for 25 years and how she unhid.

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It's saying something about that resonated with me and that sharing that with someone.

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And then the third step is starting to find others like you, that shared experience.

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So finding those people who, whether it's going on Google and just figuring it out and

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typing it in and seeing what's out there, or finding communities and building that community

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is that third step that's crucial after you've acknowledged it, after you invited somebody

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in, building that community so you realize you're not alone.

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There are so many shared experiences in that.

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I didn't realize until I found my community that I didn't invent hiding of my hand.

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I thought I invented it.

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No, so many others did.

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And then the fourth step is, I think, probably one of the most powerful, which is the idea

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of sharing your story.

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And it doesn't mean you have to go on a podcast like we're doing here or getting up in front

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of a huge audience.

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It can mean just sharing it with a few people so that they, sometimes what happens is they

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see themselves in you and they start to build their own journey of unhiding and thinking

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about what it is that's holding them back.

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And that's the journey, those four steps.

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Well, we'd love to have those people who are no longer hiding come on the show.

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So I appreciate the plug there.

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So you were hiding for 25 years.

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The first time you unhid, what made you do it?

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And did that individual accept or reject you?

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Yeah, it probably was, again, a series of little steps.

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And I think therapy was a big piece in that unhiding journey, to be able to unhide first

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to somebody and ask them how to do this, how to share this part of myself with someone.

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And I was lucky because the person that I invited in as that second step was somebody

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that I really believed had and definitely understood to have empathy, asked questions,

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was curious.

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And so I was lucky because that first person that I really started to unhide with was really

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open to this journey and allowing me to learn how to love myself and learn how to...

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Because I had never even looked at my hand, let alone touched it, let alone let anyone

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else touch it.

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And again, I think most of us have a piece of ourselves that we hold back, that we don't

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want to either look at ourselves, we don't want to examine, we don't want anyone else

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maybe coming in and thinking about it with us.

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And yet that's the beauty and the power of sharing that piece of yourself is you do build

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a greater connection.

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You build a deeper connection.

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So I was lucky that first person that I really unhid to, and again, I trusted that person.

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So it's not just random and unhiding is not an overnight process.

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It's a journey.

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And so it's choosing that first person that you share with.

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And to your question, Chris, you may choose someone that you think and may get a negative

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reaction.

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It's allowing for the conversation or moving on to somebody else that's more trustworthy

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and that's a better listener.

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Because sometimes people don't know what to do when we unhide, they don't know what to

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do with the information.

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They have to process it themselves.

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And so it's allowing for that pause, which I also think is a critical, they're almost

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like many steps between each step is allowing for a pause.

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How do you allow someone to ask questions about it?

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How do you allow someone to give you feedback about it and understand it with you?

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And that's a critical part to this journey, for sure.

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We've mentioned how your first book was about your own journey.

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Your new book looks at the issue of unhiding through a wider lens.

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Was there a particular conversation or an event that prompted you to take on the bigger

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picture and share it?

258
00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:42,360
Yeah, there were several.

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And it's kind of a twofold answer to that question because part of my process in building

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a business and this movement of unhiding is to work with business coaches and coaches.

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I was meeting with my business coach and he said, you know what you need?

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And I said, mm-mm, tell me because I'm willing to do anything.

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What do I need?

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He said, you need a book that explains hiding for someone that may not be ready for your

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story or may not know about your story, but that explains hiding and unhiding in terms

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where you can kind of just read through it and think about yourself.

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And so that business coach was the first real push to it because I'd been thinking about

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a second book and I have so much more to say in terms of I've learned a lot.

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And that's part of the second answer is when I share my story, people tell me what they're

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hiding and their journeys of unhiding.

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And so I wanted to give space for some of those stories that I've heard to reach a larger

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audience in terms of, hey, this isn't about a young woman who had a physical disability

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and hit it and it's an anomaly.

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We've never met that kind of person before.

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This is a universal story that, again, most of us are hiding something.

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We walk around thinking we're the only ones.

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We're afraid of the fear of rejection and judgment, and yet we're not alone.

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And how do we actually go about it?

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Because it holds us back from our potential.

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It holds us back from our performance.

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It holds us back from our connections.

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And so the stories that I gathered as I was speaking across the globe and people read

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single-handedly also, I started to collect those and realized this was much more universal.

284
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And so that was a big impetus in terms of getting this out there.

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What were the differences for you between writing about yourself in the first book and

286
00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:43,600
writing about other people and broader concepts in the second book?

287
00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:45,200
And was one harder than the other?

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I know.

289
00:17:46,360 --> 00:17:47,560
It's a great question.

290
00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:57,880
So the first book, My Journey, required a lot of introspection, required a lot of visiting

291
00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:03,160
some pretty painful moments in my life and thinking about those decisions I made, looking

292
00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:06,200
back and saying, okay, why did you hide?

293
00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:12,200
I went to regression therapy to understand when was really the first moment that I could

294
00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:16,040
recall of hiding and feeling different and understanding that.

295
00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:21,080
So there was a lot of introspective work that went into the first book and acknowledging

296
00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:26,840
and thinking about, again, when I wrote that first book, it was for my 12-year-old self.

297
00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:32,520
I wrote it to say, wow, what did she wish she had had when she was starting to hide

298
00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:34,440
and think about all of those pieces?

299
00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:37,160
What would she have liked to have seen?

300
00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:40,520
And what do others kind of, how would they get something from my story?

301
00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:43,320
Is this even a story that anyone would relate to?

302
00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:49,320
So you have a lot of, there's a lot of fear because you're telling your story, right?

303
00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:52,680
But you're not sure if it's going to land with anyone besides you.

304
00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:59,320
And so that first book was a journey for sure, an intense journey.

305
00:18:59,960 --> 00:19:07,720
And then the second book, I will say, not that it came easier, but it wasn't about me

306
00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:08,360
this time.

307
00:19:08,360 --> 00:19:13,880
And it was about, I really turned the tables to you, thinking about those people and those

308
00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:15,720
stories that I've heard of people hiding.

309
00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:22,920
What is it that somebody would pick up this book and say, oh, I have felt like that too.

310
00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:23,800
Oh, I have felt like that.

311
00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:28,760
How do I change the message to so much more universal and so much not about me?

312
00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:34,040
So in some ways, it's easier to write a book about yourself because you're the person that's

313
00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:34,840
happening.

314
00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:40,200
When you write a book about for others, it's truly about their experiences and how can

315
00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:40,760
they get in.

316
00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:46,360
And part of that meant not only creating a framework and really putting down those steps

317
00:19:46,360 --> 00:19:51,720
of unhiding, but it also meant thinking about what were the reactions I get when I talk

318
00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:54,520
about hiding and not just the personal stories.

319
00:19:54,520 --> 00:20:01,240
But Chris, when I talk about hiding, there's typically four reactions I get from people.

320
00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:03,080
And so that went into the second book.

321
00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:06,520
So now you just mentioned that you wrote the first book for your 12-year-old self.

322
00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:11,160
When you wrote that book, did you find that you were still hiding anything about yourself

323
00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:12,680
or that you had to resist hiding something?

324
00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:16,440
I think hiding is a continuum.

325
00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:19,640
The journey of hiding to unhiding is a continuum.

326
00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:25,720
I absolutely, there are things in my life that I'm still cautious about in terms of

327
00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:29,640
sharing and thinking through, how is it affecting how I'm connecting?

328
00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:32,520
How is it affecting how I show up in the world?

329
00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:39,320
And what I learned in writing the second book is I thought about the idea of strategic

330
00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:43,720
hiding, because sometimes it's not always safe to unhide, right?

331
00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:49,160
Whether it, I mean, I think about modern day examples right now, there are religious groups

332
00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:53,240
that it doesn't feel safe, like the Jewish community to unhide in certain aspects.

333
00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:57,640
There are the trans community, it doesn't always feel safe to unhide.

334
00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:05,720
And so unhiding is a privilege that I understood differently with the second book and writing

335
00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:06,280
it.

336
00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:15,400
And it's also strategic to hide parts of ourselves because it can allow for connection in a

337
00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:15,800
different way.

338
00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:17,960
Maybe not everybody has to know everything about us.

339
00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:21,640
And so there are some things that it's okay to keep sacred.

340
00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:29,000
And also, it's not always our job to tell other people's stories, if that makes sense.

341
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:34,680
Like there are people in my life that I would love to share part of their journey of unhiding,

342
00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:35,960
but that's not my story to tell.

343
00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:39,160
So it was being mindful of that as well.

344
00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:44,760
Random question of the day and way off topic, as someone struggling to complete their second

345
00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:47,320
book, how long did it take you to finish your second book?

346
00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:53,080
So this is the beauty of having a business coach because they keep you accountable and

347
00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:56,280
they say you have 90 days to write this.

348
00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:58,680
And it is half the size.

349
00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:03,560
So this book, Unhide and Seek, is a shorter book than Single-Handedly.

350
00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:07,640
I'm a very deadline-driven person.

351
00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:13,000
So for me, it was, okay, I knew what techniques worked for me last time in the first book.

352
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:14,840
How do I get this done in the second book?

353
00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:20,520
And it took me five months to really get all of it together and out there.

354
00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:23,560
But it's been a journey.

355
00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:28,440
And every piece of writing the second book reminds you of, wait, why am I doing this

356
00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:28,760
again?

357
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:29,800
What?

358
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:32,600
Because I liked my first book, but what?

359
00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:34,440
I don't know if I need to do this again.

360
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:37,320
I equate it to parenting, to childhood.

361
00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:39,560
Like you think with the first baby, you're like, you know what?

362
00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:40,440
I'm never going to do this again.

363
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:41,080
I'm good.

364
00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:43,000
And then somehow you find yourself doing it again.

365
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:47,080
And you're like, oh yeah, these are the pains and the labors, all of it.

366
00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:47,320
Yeah.

367
00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:49,480
You got this, Chris.

368
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:50,040
You got this.

369
00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:50,680
We'll get there.

370
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:51,240
We'll get there.

371
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:56,200
So in your latest book, Unhide and Seek, you've created four archetypes about people who are

372
00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:56,920
hiding something.

373
00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:00,920
Let's take them one at a time so you can go into some detail about each of them.

374
00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:01,560
Sure.

375
00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:05,160
The first reaction is from the person who insists their hiding is not news to them.

376
00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:08,200
What archetype is that and what's going on with them?

377
00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:12,760
So that's what I call the guardian.

378
00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:18,520
It's the person who, when I talk about this concept of hiding, they know exactly what

379
00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:19,400
I'm talking about.

380
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:23,400
They come up and they say, I know exactly what you're talking about with hiding.

381
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:30,360
And so it's the space of there's something in your life where you have fear of rejection

382
00:23:30,360 --> 00:23:31,160
and judgment.

383
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:35,720
You fear that if I tell somebody this, it's not going to go well.

384
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:36,840
So I'm just going to hide it.

385
00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:40,520
And again, it can be, Chris, like the things I mentioned before.

386
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:43,480
It can be something, quote unquote, as simple as that.

387
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:46,680
You would say, well, you don't need to hide your education level.

388
00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:49,640
You don't need to hide your finances or your relationship.

389
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:53,480
And that may be true for the person thinking of judging you, right?

390
00:23:54,040 --> 00:24:00,040
But in your head, you've either gotten messages externally or you've, and I should say, and

391
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:05,160
you've given yourself messages internally about this idea that this is something that

392
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:09,480
is going to hold me back from myself, from connecting, from a job.

393
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:13,960
I mean, I've had people, I had a person tell me they didn't talk about that.

394
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:18,040
They went to community college with anyone that when the subject came up, they never

395
00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:21,480
mentioned it because they were afraid that people would judge them and think that they

396
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:22,280
weren't smart enough.

397
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:27,960
Well, you were smart enough because they got an education with less money.

398
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:29,800
So like, let's reframe that.

399
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:32,520
And yet they had told themselves messages about that, right?

400
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:39,800
So it's that the guardian knows they're hiding something and is, thinks that it might be

401
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:40,280
different.

402
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:43,640
Like if I was, if I were able to reveal this, what could change?

403
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:45,480
There's a little bit of the curiosity there.

404
00:24:46,120 --> 00:24:51,880
But that's definitely a reaction I get from people a lot is I know what you're talking

405
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,200
about and I'm not sure what to do with it.

406
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:58,280
The second is, am I hiding anything type?

407
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:01,800
As if they don't know that they're hiding anything, you know, how do you define them

408
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:02,600
and what's their story?

409
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:03,880
Sure.

410
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:07,160
That's the, so the archetype there is called the wonderer.

411
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:11,720
And it's the person who, this may be a new concept for them because they've been kind

412
00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:13,400
of going through life and things.

413
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:14,680
This is the way life is.

414
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:20,680
And they haven't necessarily given a lot of curiosity to this idea of hiding or unhiding

415
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:23,320
or, and again, hiding and unhiding.

416
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:29,000
The reason I wrote the second book also is because yes, it affects us personally, but

417
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:35,080
it also affects how we show up professionally and those around us in our, in our lives professionally,

418
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:38,920
like who, who is on our team who may be not sharing something.

419
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:45,240
And so that wonderer is the person who is curious, who says, huh, am I hiding anything?

420
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:46,920
Like what, what would I be hiding?

421
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:47,640
And then goes through.

422
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:52,840
And in my book, I have a checklist of areas of people, things that you may be hiding.

423
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:55,960
I have examples of other people who may be hiding.

424
00:25:55,960 --> 00:26:00,600
And so it's the curiosity piece with the wonderer that keeps them kind of engaged and

425
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:03,800
thinking, I never thought about this before.

426
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:04,520
I'm curious.

427
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:05,960
Am I hiding anything?

428
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:07,160
And how is it holding me back?

429
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:11,160
The next is the type that insists they're not hiding anything.

430
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:15,080
So first, I know a lot of people will tell you anything about themselves.

431
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:17,800
Is that type of person really an open book?

432
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:21,480
Are they still hiding something even as they're constantly oversharing about themselves?

433
00:26:22,120 --> 00:26:24,120
So you may have met this person too.

434
00:26:24,120 --> 00:26:28,600
I figure, like, I feel like I've met them a few times where they'll say the reaction

435
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:32,280
when I talk about hiding is, oh my God, I don't hide anything.

436
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:34,280
I share, I am an open book.

437
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:35,320
I share everything.

438
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:42,040
So I literally named them the open book because they feel like the world knows everything about

439
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:44,360
them sometimes with regret.

440
00:26:44,360 --> 00:26:45,960
Like, oh, I probably shouldn't have shared that.

441
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:47,400
That was probably too much detail.

442
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:48,680
I shouldn't have shared everything.

443
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:52,600
And sometimes there is blowback when we share too much, right?

444
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:55,880
Because then people have information about us that maybe we didn't need them to have

445
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:56,760
or want them to have.

446
00:26:56,760 --> 00:27:01,000
And it levels, it doesn't level the playing field there with power.

447
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:07,960
I think what's interesting about the open book is that they are curating a facade of

448
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:09,160
what we want them to see.

449
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:13,560
Thinking that they're sharing a lot doesn't mean that you're sharing everything.

450
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:18,680
It doesn't mean that you're sharing some of those deep fears or those secrets or those

451
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:23,640
things about your background that maybe you feel like there's, again, you'll be judged

452
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:24,680
or rejected.

453
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:29,160
And so for the open book, it's often a curated narrative that they're sharing.

454
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:30,760
Like this is, oh, I'm an open book.

455
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:32,280
I want you to know everything.

456
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:36,520
And yet if you really dig a little bit deeper, there's a little bit more there.

457
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:42,120
And last but not least, you've identified a fourth type of hider that you call the fortress.

458
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:45,880
How do we identify a fortress and what motivates them?

459
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:54,040
So I met a fortress, Chris, on an elevator recently, and I was talking about what I do

460
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:59,320
for a living and how I speak about the idea of hiding and how it impacts workplace culture

461
00:28:00,360 --> 00:28:01,480
and work with leaders.

462
00:28:02,120 --> 00:28:06,120
And this person turned to me and they said, is this even important?

463
00:28:06,120 --> 00:28:08,280
Why are we talking about this in the workplace?

464
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:10,600
Because do you really believe people hide things?

465
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:13,960
Or isn't it really more that we just need to get the job done?

466
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:16,520
Do we really need to show all of ourselves at work?

467
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:21,000
And I said, I'm not asking you to show all of yourself at work.

468
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:25,400
I'm asking you to be able to show your best self at work so that you can get the support

469
00:28:26,120 --> 00:28:31,560
and the camaraderie and the connection that you need to do your job successfully,

470
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:33,320
especially when it comes to leaders.

471
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:42,600
And it's also the person that I've met who comes into a workplace session and when I'm

472
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:47,080
speaking and kind of has their arms folded in the front row, Chris, the person who's like,

473
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:49,800
I had to be here because my manager told me I had to be here.

474
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:53,320
And I'm not even sure why this is important in the workplace.

475
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:54,680
Can't we just get our jobs done?

476
00:28:55,560 --> 00:29:00,280
And I had one of those come up to me after a session, a speaking engagement.

477
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:04,920
And I said, yes, it's about getting the job done.

478
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:06,040
It's absolutely that.

479
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:10,680
And what it's also about is, how as a leader is your team able to connect with you?

480
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:16,120
Because I think many of us grew up in a time where we valued and kind of learned this idea

481
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:21,000
of old school leadership, which is like keep people at arm's length, don't be vulnerable,

482
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:22,120
have all the answers.

483
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:25,160
And that's just not reality anymore.

484
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:29,640
And I don't know that it was ever reality, but it keeps people from not necessarily connecting

485
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:30,840
with us as leaders.

486
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:36,200
So you're not getting them the best out of your teams or the most innovation out of your

487
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:36,920
teams.

488
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:41,240
And so I was able to challenge it a little bit back and plant a seed.

489
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:47,880
The fortress is a tough thing because I think that there's a guard up, right?

490
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:50,840
If I shared something about myself, it'll be seen as a weakness.

491
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:54,360
And it's changing that mindset of how do you...

492
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:56,280
It's not sharing everything about yourself.

493
00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:59,240
It's being, again, that strategic unhiding.

494
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:04,520
How do we share those pieces of ourselves that will allow our team to connect with us?

495
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:05,480
That's the goal here.

496
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:11,400
And the other truth, Chris, is while we can have a preference for one of these archetypes,

497
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:11,560
right?

498
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:15,000
Because I imagine as you're sitting there or your audience is sitting here listening,

499
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:16,920
being like, oh, I'm probably a guardian.

500
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:18,760
Oh, I'm probably a open book.

501
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:25,560
The truth is, while we have a preference for one, we're actually all four of them.

502
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:26,840
All four.

503
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:27,640
That's fascinating.

504
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:30,920
Because as you're saying, I'm already picturing which one I am, and I'm not going to tell

505
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:31,000
you.

506
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:32,360
I'll let you guess maybe after the show.

507
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:36,760
But obviously, these are four different types of individuals, even though it sounds like

508
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:38,680
they all got a little piece of each one of them in there.

509
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,440
What's the appropriate way to interact with each of those four types of hiders?

510
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:46,520
Yeah, that's definitely in the book because there are tools.

511
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:52,840
And again, it's a deeper conversation because I think each of them has a reason for their

512
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:53,560
hiding, right?

513
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:58,360
There's the idea of with a guardian, there's a message that you've told yourself about

514
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:04,200
this thing that's different about you, that if you share it out loud, there's rejection

515
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:04,840
or judgment.

516
00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:10,520
So the first step, again, it follows those four steps of acknowledging it for each of

517
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:11,000
the types.

518
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:16,520
Acknowledge it, invite someone in, build a community, and share your story.

519
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:18,520
And yet with each, it's nuanced.

520
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:24,040
So with a guardian, I'd want to start thinking about how are you journaling about this?

521
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:25,320
How are you seeking support?

522
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:26,760
What are those pieces?

523
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:32,280
Similar for, I would say with the open book, which seems like almost the opposite extreme

524
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:36,680
because they're just willing to share, is thinking about what are those times that you

525
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:38,760
have shared where it has backfired?

526
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,200
What does it feel like to not share some information?

527
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:45,960
Where can you be selective with what you're sharing and why you're sharing?

528
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:51,960
So taking the steps to be what I call doing some self-centered work, really acknowledging

529
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:53,560
it and being introspective.

530
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:57,720
But I call it self-centered, not in a bad way, but centering on yourself.

531
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:01,400
What does that feel like to slow down and to not share everything?

532
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:04,440
You've mentioned boundaries a few times in the show.

533
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:06,600
What about boundaries?

534
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:10,600
We've had it hammered into our heads forever that we're supposed to have boundaries and

535
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:12,120
we shouldn't share everything about ourselves.

536
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:16,520
How do we distinguish between maintaining healthy boundaries and unhiding the parts

537
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:17,560
of us that we should unhide?

538
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,840
Yeah, boundaries are critical here and boundaries are important.

539
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:25,000
And we have heard that for a long time.

540
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:30,440
And so I'm not in any way suggesting that when you listen to this podcast and you get

541
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:34,360
off of it and you think, okay, I'm just going to start sharing parts of myself with everyone.

542
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:35,480
That is not the goal here.

543
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:37,000
It is not a flip of a switch.

544
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:38,440
It is not overnight.

545
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:39,320
It's a journey.

546
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:45,880
And it's about, I always ask the question, Chris, how is what you're hiding holding you

547
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:47,800
back from connecting and thriving?

548
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:54,200
And when I think about that question, it's then, okay, so the boundaries that I have

549
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:59,720
up around that hiding part, what would it look like to share a piece of myself, a small

550
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:01,800
detail of myself with someone?

551
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:03,400
Would it help me connect with them better?

552
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:06,360
Would it help them not make assumptions?

553
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:10,840
Because I think that's the other piece about hiding that doesn't get talked about a lot

554
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:16,520
is this idea of we make assumptions about people's behavior based on the thing that

555
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:20,600
we've made up that why they're not doing a certain thing or why they're not sharing.

556
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:25,880
And a perfect example, Chris, is I had somebody come up to me after one of my speaking engagements

557
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:29,960
and say, I know exactly what you're talking about, about hiding.

558
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:31,560
And so that's my guardian.

559
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:38,440
And they said in meetings, I leave before the meeting's over because I have a stutter

560
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:40,120
and I don't want anyone to know.

561
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:45,240
And I've heard similar with people with accents have shared that they leave meetings or they

562
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:47,400
don't talk in meetings because they don't want to be seen.

563
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:48,280
They don't want to be judged.

564
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:54,120
And what happens is it affects us in three ways.

565
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:59,480
The person that is having that difference is sitting there the whole time thinking about

566
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:00,360
when is this meeting over?

567
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:01,320
How do I get out early?

568
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:03,240
They're almost forecasting the next step.

569
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:05,560
So that's what they're concentrating on.

570
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:07,560
They're actually not really present.

571
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:09,400
So they're not giving you their best self.

572
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:14,680
The second thing is the team now is making assumptions about you, right?

573
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:17,240
Oh, this person always has to leave the meeting early.

574
00:34:17,240 --> 00:34:18,920
They never have any good ideas.

575
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:20,760
They're not really a team player.

576
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:22,600
They don't go to after work events.

577
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:25,160
I mean, this happens in neighborhoods too with people, right?

578
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:28,280
Like your neighbors, you make assumptions about why they're not going to the potluck

579
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:30,040
or the street thing.

580
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:35,240
We make assumptions a lot about people's behavior without checking in what might be going on

581
00:34:35,240 --> 00:34:35,800
for someone.

582
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:42,920
And then the third piece, and especially as it relates in a workplace is you're not seen

583
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:44,120
in leadership material.

584
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:45,720
You're not seen as having the great ideas.

585
00:34:45,720 --> 00:34:50,680
You're not able to bring your innovative self to work or those innovative ideas.

586
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:54,040
And so it hurts us in three ways when we hide.

587
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:58,200
And that's what the boundaries piece is, is how is it holding me back, right?

588
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:02,200
So yes, I may have, and I'll use myself, I have a physical difference.

589
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:08,360
When I wasn't sharing it, it was, I thought I was protecting myself.

590
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:09,320
I'm protecting other people.

591
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:10,920
So they didn't have to deal with it.

592
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:12,920
The team though, thought, oh, well, she's so guarded.

593
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:14,440
They didn't know about my hand.

594
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:18,680
They're like, oh, she's so, she never, she's not really friendly.

595
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:20,440
She's kind of, she's difficult.

596
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:25,560
Like she's just, she has this wall around her and then, well, she's not going to be

597
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:27,400
a great leader if that's what it's like.

598
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:32,520
And so then you overachieve and you overcompensate to have people see it differently, but it's

599
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:34,440
exhausting and it's lonely.

600
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:38,440
And so that's where the boundaries, how do we, it's a nuanced thing.

601
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:39,720
How do we bring the boundaries?

602
00:35:39,720 --> 00:35:43,960
How do we allow for the boundaries to be blurred a little bit so that you can bring your best

603
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:44,600
self to work?

604
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:50,280
Once we figure out what type of hider we are or someone else is, what should we do?

605
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:54,680
There's a lot of tools and resources in the book, Chris.

606
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:59,080
It's the idea is that's the first step is acknowledging it and then thinking about,

607
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:02,920
so how do you start that journey of unhiding?

608
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:05,000
How do you invite that for somebody in?

609
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:10,360
And whether it's a close friend, whether it's a manager at work, whether it's somebody in

610
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:15,400
your community, how do you start to invite someone in to share a piece of this?

611
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:21,720
And then it's that idea of building the community because today, probably more than ever, as

612
00:36:21,720 --> 00:36:26,040
we know, Chris, it is so much easier to find people with shared experiences.

613
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:31,480
Whether it's a meetup, whether it's a Googling, whether it's an employee resource group in

614
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:36,680
your company, there are so many places to find others who are on this journey.

615
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:38,200
And then it's about sharing your story.

616
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:40,760
So that's really the framework for unhiding.

617
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:48,200
And with each archetype, there is a prescription plan in the book about that.

618
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:50,920
So you talk about all this great stuff that's in your book.

619
00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:54,840
First, where can people find you if they want you to come speak at an event?

620
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:57,080
And then second, where can they find your books?

621
00:36:57,800 --> 00:36:58,360
Sure.

622
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:01,480
So ruthrathblot.com is my website.

623
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:06,920
I spend a lot of time on social media, specifically on LinkedIn and on Instagram.

624
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:10,360
So that's probably the best place for people to engage with my work.

625
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:16,600
And then the book is available on Amazon and anywhere that you can buy a book.

626
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:19,640
And it's on ebook as well as print.

627
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:22,120
And then this fall, it will be audio as well.

628
00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:25,560
And again, that's ruthrathblot.com.

629
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:26,280
Correct.

630
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:26,680
Perfect.

631
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:30,280
So Ruth, you write about strategic hiding in Unhide and Seek.

632
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:36,120
What is strategic hiding and how, why, or when is it a good thing or is it even a good thing?

633
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:43,320
Strategic hiding is a term and a concept that really developed in the second book.

634
00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:47,400
I realized it was really important because as we talked about before, Chris,

635
00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:51,800
sometimes it's important to hide part of yourself

636
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:55,160
because whether it's in a power play, in a work situation,

637
00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:58,920
maybe you're going through a relationship crisis

638
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:05,080
and you're also at work going through a bidding war or a negotiation for something.

639
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:08,680
They don't necessarily need to know about your relationship crisis.

640
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:10,600
Like that's not a good time to bring it up.

641
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:15,720
It wouldn't bring you closer maybe in terms of this negotiation.

642
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:21,320
And so with strategic hiding, it's thinking about why am I sharing this?

643
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:24,920
How will this allow me to connect with people?

644
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:27,880
How will it allow me to feel like I can thrive?

645
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:32,280
Why am I sharing this part of myself?

646
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:35,080
And at the bottom end of the day, Chris,

647
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:39,480
it's the idea of how am I going to feel better when I share this piece of myself?

648
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:42,520
How is it going to allow me to feel and connect it to myself?

649
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:47,000
And that strategic hiding is an important piece of this because again,

650
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:51,080
hiding and unhiding, it's not an overnight process.

651
00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:52,200
It is a continuum.

652
00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:56,600
There are pieces of ourselves that it's okay to not share with everyone.

653
00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:57,880
They don't need to know everything,

654
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:01,640
but how does it allow and how does it allow for us to connect though

655
00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:04,040
is the real key to this whole equation.

656
00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:08,120
I think the other piece with strategic hiding is,

657
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:11,240
and in the book, I break it down also around

658
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:14,280
if you're, especially in their professional settings,

659
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:17,400
as an employee, why do we unhide, right?

660
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:21,240
What's the best case scenario and when do we not need to share?

661
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:25,240
And also with culture, there's a difference in terms of culture

662
00:39:25,240 --> 00:39:27,000
and thinking about how we hide.

663
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:29,800
Certain cultures don't really want us to unhide.

664
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:31,240
It's not part of the culture.

665
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:34,200
And so thinking about some of those pieces

666
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:36,600
as we're navigating that as an employee,

667
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:40,200
and similarly, how are we navigating that as a leader?

668
00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:42,440
How are we getting the best out of our teams?

669
00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:48,600
Because we want our job as a manager is to support our teams,

670
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:51,880
to set vision, to get people to really build out

671
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:53,560
what we're trying to achieve.

672
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:56,600
And yet when people are feeling like they can't be themselves,

673
00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:59,000
their best selves, not their authentic selves,

674
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:01,000
but their best selves and ask for support,

675
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:04,840
that's our job as leaders is to create those spaces.

676
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:09,720
And one of the things I say a lot, Chris, is leaders go first.

677
00:40:09,720 --> 00:40:11,960
Leaders have to model this behavior

678
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:14,920
that they're looking to have from their teams.

679
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:17,640
I think for a while there was a cliche,

680
00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:18,760
and maybe you heard it too,

681
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:22,120
of we want you to bring your authentic self to work, right?

682
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:25,320
Well, I don't know that we're actually set up for that.

683
00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:28,520
We don't necessarily have the supports and the coaches

684
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:31,640
and the therapists in place to make sure that happens.

685
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:36,120
And we also haven't had leaders necessarily doing that first.

686
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:38,120
So we haven't created those safe spaces

687
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:41,480
for people to actually bring their authentic self.

688
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:45,400
So I argue instead for how do we bring our best selves to work?

689
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:48,760
How do leaders go first in terms of creating that space,

690
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:51,960
modeling what the behaviors and the mindset

691
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:53,000
that they're looking for,

692
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:55,240
and so that we can feel connected to them?

693
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:57,480
And then how do we create those spaces

694
00:40:57,480 --> 00:40:59,320
where again, we can ask for support?

695
00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:02,600
You know, it's interesting you mentioned

696
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:05,960
how we haven't really set people up for success

697
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:07,160
as being their authentic self.

698
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:08,920
And the one thing you mentioned

699
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:10,520
was having the mental health support.

700
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:12,840
And there's an article in the Wall Street Journal

701
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:13,960
last week on a company,

702
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:15,560
actually I'm in the town I live in,

703
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:17,800
called Synchrony Financial,

704
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:20,440
where they actually, because the employees requested it,

705
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:22,040
they have an in-house therapist.

706
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:24,040
And as part of their benefits

707
00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:25,160
and part of their paid compensation,

708
00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:27,160
I think they get two sessions a month maybe.

709
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:30,760
So it's great to see that companies are embracing it.

710
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:31,720
They're listening to employees,

711
00:41:31,720 --> 00:41:34,360
that employees are actually elevating it to management.

712
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:35,560
You know, you get those annual surveys.

713
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:36,280
What have we done good?

714
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:37,160
What have we done poorly?

715
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:39,640
So I just wanna, they're not a sponsor of the show,

716
00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:40,680
but I just wanna highlight the work

717
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:41,960
that Synchrony Financial is doing.

718
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:44,200
And just, you know, from your perspective,

719
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:44,840
I thought that's interesting

720
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:45,960
because I'd never thought of that.

721
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:48,520
You know, they'll give you mental health and wellness

722
00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:49,640
as part of your benefits,

723
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:51,960
but not somebody who's two floors up from you

724
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:52,920
can go knock on their door.

725
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:55,880
Well, and often, no, and I, by the way,

726
00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:57,560
I love Synchrony Financial.

727
00:41:57,560 --> 00:41:59,880
I actually spoke there a few years ago.

728
00:41:59,880 --> 00:42:00,840
I think they're great.

729
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:04,040
They are companies that are doing really good things

730
00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:07,240
around this idea of how do we create spaces

731
00:42:07,240 --> 00:42:08,600
where employees feel engaged,

732
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:10,520
where they feel seen, where they feel heard,

733
00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:12,200
where they feel like they belong.

734
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:13,880
And so that's a huge piece,

735
00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:16,200
because again, that allows for somebody

736
00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:19,320
to get the support in-house when they need it.

737
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:20,600
Because oftentimes, as we know,

738
00:42:21,240 --> 00:42:23,160
and I believe in EAP programs,

739
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:24,680
but sometimes they're limited

740
00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:26,920
in terms of how many sessions you can go to.

741
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:28,760
And so how do you allow for somebody

742
00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:30,520
who may need a little bit more

743
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:33,560
or just what does it look like

744
00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:35,000
to train around differences?

745
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:36,840
So that, because I think that's the step

746
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:39,560
that's almost needed in a lot of this work

747
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:41,880
is how are leaders thinking

748
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:44,360
about their own differences first, right?

749
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:45,960
How do they think about the way

750
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:47,560
they understand their own differences?

751
00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:49,560
How do they think about others' differences?

752
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:51,880
That's almost the work that needs to happen

753
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:54,520
before we can really truly advocate

754
00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:56,360
for authentic workplaces

755
00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:59,000
is let's do the work on understanding difference

756
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:00,760
and what does it mean to be different?

757
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:04,760
And how do we value different experiences and perspectives?

758
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:06,920
Because that's really the workplace

759
00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:09,400
I know that most of us want to work in

760
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:11,000
is where different perspectives

761
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:12,680
and different experiences are valued.

762
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:14,360
Well, that's a good segue

763
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:16,120
to the next part of the conversation.

764
00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:17,800
The first time on the show,

765
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:19,640
we talked about diversity, equity, and inclusion.

766
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:21,560
That was two and a half years ago.

767
00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:23,320
Now since then,

768
00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:25,400
there's been a real assault on DEI initiatives.

769
00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:28,040
The USA Today story in July described

770
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:29,240
how the anti-woke movement

771
00:43:29,240 --> 00:43:30,920
has caused companies like John Deere,

772
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:33,640
Harley-Davidson, Ford, Lowe's, and others

773
00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:35,560
to back away from, or in some cases,

774
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:37,160
even kill their DEI programs.

775
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:39,080
What's going on there?

776
00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:41,880
Hmm, I don't know.

777
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:42,680
Do you have the answer?

778
00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:45,720
Because it's really, it's disheartening.

779
00:43:45,720 --> 00:43:52,040
And I think that in some ways

780
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:54,120
with the DEI movement,

781
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:57,000
we excluded some people from the conversation

782
00:43:57,000 --> 00:43:58,920
that needed to be part of the conversation.

783
00:43:58,920 --> 00:43:59,880
And maybe that's where

784
00:43:59,880 --> 00:44:01,800
some of the backlash has come from, right?

785
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:05,320
This idea of we narrowly defined

786
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:07,080
what diversity meant

787
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:09,720
and excluded some people,

788
00:44:09,720 --> 00:44:10,840
including, I will say,

789
00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:13,080
and this was when I did my TED Talk,

790
00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:14,200
I talked about this.

791
00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:16,120
My TEDx is the idea of

792
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:19,080
how do we expand the conversation on diversity

793
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:22,040
to include all different types

794
00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:23,960
and lenses of difference?

795
00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:26,200
And for me, that meant disability

796
00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:27,640
because disability was something

797
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:30,040
that wasn't prioritized initially

798
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:31,960
in DEI conversations.

799
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:32,760
It didn't show up.

800
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:35,240
I think there was a statistic

801
00:44:35,240 --> 00:44:37,640
after Black Lives Matter ignited

802
00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:39,160
and George Floyd's death

803
00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:41,880
that 90% of companies

804
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:44,520
jumped into DEI efforts, right?

805
00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:46,440
Put up the banners,

806
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:48,360
got involved, spent a lot of money.

807
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:51,800
And yet only 4% of those companies

808
00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:53,320
actually included disability,

809
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:55,880
both visible and the apparent disabilities

810
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:57,400
and non-apparent disabilities

811
00:44:57,400 --> 00:44:59,240
like mental health and neurodiversity.

812
00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:02,040
And so when we leave out a huge group

813
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:03,400
and disability happens to be

814
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:05,080
the largest minority group out there

815
00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:06,920
because it cuts across and intersects

816
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:08,760
with all other lenses of diversity,

817
00:45:09,720 --> 00:45:11,320
we miss some opportunities

818
00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:12,360
to talk about difference.

819
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:15,240
And I think the same could be said with age.

820
00:45:15,240 --> 00:45:17,480
We left age out of the diversity equation.

821
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:20,200
And so I advocate, Chris,

822
00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:22,680
for the idea of what I said before,

823
00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:24,920
which is this idea of how do leaders,

824
00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:27,160
because we know things in cultures

825
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:30,680
typically don't change without leaders involved.

826
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:31,960
How do leaders understand

827
00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:34,120
their own differences themselves?

828
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:36,200
How do they understand others' differences?

829
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:37,560
And that's the real work.

830
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:39,400
It's this understanding piece

831
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:41,080
so that you can build connections,

832
00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:42,840
so that you can build representation,

833
00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:44,520
so that you can build empathy.

834
00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:46,360
You build a culture of belonging

835
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:48,920
but you have to do the work first.

836
00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:49,800
And it is homework.

837
00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:52,280
As a leader myself,

838
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:54,920
I had to go out and do a lot of learning

839
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:57,880
about diversity and equity and inclusion

840
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:01,720
before I could really make statements

841
00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:04,360
that and really think about it.

842
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:07,160
And I hadn't done the work and that beforehand.

843
00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:08,200
And that as a leader,

844
00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:10,120
I had to own that and then think about it.

845
00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:13,320
I am saddened to see some of the companies.

846
00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:15,880
I mean, I was saddened to see Microsoft

847
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:18,360
dismantled their DEI department.

848
00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:21,080
I was saddened to hear

849
00:46:21,720 --> 00:46:24,040
the Society for Human Resource Management

850
00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:26,920
take equity out of their statement.

851
00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:32,120
I, it's, it's, and I also heard someone

852
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:33,400
and I will give him credit.

853
00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:35,880
John, I believe his name is John Graham.

854
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:37,800
He said, you know,

855
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:40,680
maybe instead of saying the words DEI,

856
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:41,640
because it is, there's,

857
00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:43,320
they're triggering for some people, right?

858
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:46,120
And especially in certain groups.

859
00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:47,320
He said, what if we instead

860
00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:49,000
call it a humanity practice

861
00:46:49,720 --> 00:46:50,840
and started to say,

862
00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:52,360
this is a humanity practice

863
00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:54,760
because nobody can argue with humanity.

864
00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:59,400
And maybe that's where the lens starts to fall.

865
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:01,480
And we start to look at this work

866
00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:03,320
on inclusion and belonging

867
00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:04,520
as a humanity practice.

868
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:06,440
Well, and that's interesting

869
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:09,000
because I'll say in parallel

870
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:10,040
or not quite the same,

871
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:11,960
but ESG was a big phrase

872
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:12,920
we heard a couple of years ago.

873
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:15,560
People have transitioned away from that

874
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:17,160
and now they call it climate.

875
00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:18,200
Yeah.

876
00:47:18,200 --> 00:47:19,800
And so there's a couple of

877
00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:21,960
things in terms of those letters,

878
00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:23,560
the ESG that people have different opinions on.

879
00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:25,480
And so that's pretty, a lot of controversy.

880
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:26,760
And obviously corporations are looking

881
00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:28,440
to avoid controversy in the workplace

882
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:29,960
and within for their shareholders.

883
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:32,840
And so I guess that's the new norm

884
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:34,360
in terms of just change the name of something.

885
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:36,040
And it softens it a bit.

886
00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:37,800
Or add on letters,

887
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:39,000
just keep adding on letters.

888
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:40,920
And so it's like,

889
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:44,920
but why not instead expand it or re-imagine it?

890
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:47,000
And so that we can keep moving it forward

891
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:49,640
because I think we can all agree that.

892
00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:53,400
And I remember reading the 2014

893
00:47:53,560 --> 00:47:56,280
article when Tim Cook

894
00:47:56,280 --> 00:47:58,760
talked about his own sexuality

895
00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:01,240
and how important that he did this in Bloomberg.

896
00:48:01,240 --> 00:48:02,520
And he said, because we know

897
00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:04,520
that companies that value difference

898
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:06,760
are the most innovative

899
00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:07,560
and the most creative

900
00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:09,400
and they get their best out of their teams.

901
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:11,240
So how do we allow, again,

902
00:48:11,240 --> 00:48:14,520
for that space for people to feel seen and heard

903
00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:16,360
and that their differences are,

904
00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:18,360
their different perspectives

905
00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:20,600
and their different experiences are valued.

906
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:22,840
That's the kind of company that I think

907
00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:25,720
as we're employees advocating for things,

908
00:48:25,720 --> 00:48:27,400
that would be the culture mindset

909
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:29,560
and the culture shift that I'd wanna see

910
00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:32,200
and continue to work toward for sure with Unhiding.

911
00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:34,120
You're not just satisfied

912
00:48:34,120 --> 00:48:35,480
with writing a book about Unhiding.

913
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:37,800
You said that you wanna create a movement

914
00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:38,840
around Unhiding.

915
00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:39,640
Yeah.

916
00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:41,720
Taking a 30,000 foot view first,

917
00:48:41,720 --> 00:48:42,520
how do you get that done?

918
00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:46,920
Chris, what's your advice?

919
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:48,360
Because I'm trying.

920
00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:51,800
I think, and I don't know if you have advice too,

921
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:52,360
I'd love it.

922
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:53,640
When you're ready.

923
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:56,120
I think the first is,

924
00:48:56,120 --> 00:48:58,440
I mean, is having the North Star.

925
00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:00,920
And the North Star for me is this idea

926
00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:03,240
of just like those DEI statements

927
00:49:03,240 --> 00:49:05,000
that we put up in companies

928
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:06,760
around valuing diversity.

929
00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:09,800
What if, just imagine for a second,

930
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:13,400
what if every company had an Unhiding manifesto

931
00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:15,320
where it said, you know what?

932
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:16,520
In this company,

933
00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:18,840
we believe that your differences are

934
00:49:18,840 --> 00:49:21,880
and your experiences are valued here.

935
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:23,880
That we believe in a humanity practice,

936
00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:25,480
that we believe that leadership

937
00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:27,480
goes first in this.

938
00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:30,280
And in my book, I actually have a page

939
00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:33,640
on a template for an Unhiding manifesto

940
00:49:33,640 --> 00:49:37,480
because I do think that that would be the movement

941
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:39,640
of how do we accept difference?

942
00:49:39,640 --> 00:49:40,920
Because that's really what it's about

943
00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:43,560
because when we Unhide,

944
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:45,400
we create connection

945
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:48,200
and we allow for people to actually feel seen.

946
00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:50,840
And it's a beautiful thing

947
00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:52,360
because then we don't walk around thinking

948
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:54,280
we have to hide parts of ourselves.

949
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:57,320
So that 30,000 foot view is imagine

950
00:49:57,320 --> 00:50:00,280
if every company, every workplace,

951
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:03,160
every organization had an Unhiding manifesto

952
00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:06,840
that leaders and employees and teams adopted

953
00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:07,800
as part of the culture.

954
00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:11,080
So you talk about the manifesto in the private sector.

955
00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:12,920
Is that gonna be enough

956
00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:14,840
or will it require some help from the public sector

957
00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:15,880
in terms of new policies?

958
00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:18,120
That's a really good question.

959
00:50:18,120 --> 00:50:19,240
I'm working on it.

960
00:50:19,720 --> 00:50:21,560
Chris, I got a lot to do over here.

961
00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:22,200
You're very busy.

962
00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:22,440
I know.

963
00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:23,720
That's why I appreciate your time on here.

964
00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:25,080
But I know.

965
00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:27,640
And I want people to join me.

966
00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:31,320
This is not about Ruth creating a movement on her own.

967
00:50:31,320 --> 00:50:32,920
This is about joining together

968
00:50:32,920 --> 00:50:35,640
with those others who are creating movements

969
00:50:35,640 --> 00:50:38,520
around this idea of belonging and connection

970
00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:40,680
and bringing people together

971
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:43,160
because I can't do it alone.

972
00:50:43,160 --> 00:50:45,880
And as I named my first book single-handedly

973
00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:48,120
because that's the joke is

974
00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:49,720
you can't do it by yourself.

975
00:50:49,720 --> 00:50:51,240
You can't do it single-handedly.

976
00:50:51,240 --> 00:50:52,200
You need connection.

977
00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:53,400
You need community.

978
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:56,600
And so I guess part of that 30,000 foot view

979
00:50:56,600 --> 00:51:00,440
is also who are partners who wanna join in this space,

980
00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:03,240
who want to join in creating a culture of Unhiding.

981
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:05,960
Well, you know, I'm thinking back,

982
00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:07,320
you and I had lunch earlier this year

983
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:09,960
and we was talking about different things.

984
00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:11,960
And I made the phrase, the reference of,

985
00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:14,920
I'm looking to start a movement, the next steps forward.

986
00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:16,040
And it's about empowerment.

987
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:16,840
It's about wellbeing.

988
00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:17,960
It's about leadership.

989
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:19,400
You just mentioned the word partners,

990
00:51:20,200 --> 00:51:22,120
whether you like it or not, kiddo, we're partners in this.

991
00:51:22,120 --> 00:51:25,080
I think I totally agree.

992
00:51:25,080 --> 00:51:27,960
I'm like lost for words, which is not always true.

993
00:51:29,080 --> 00:51:32,360
So I know I appreciate your support always.

994
00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:33,240
And yes, it is.

995
00:51:33,240 --> 00:51:35,800
I mean, I think this is one of the next steps forward.

996
00:51:35,800 --> 00:51:39,800
Absolutely is how do we create an Unhiding culture?

997
00:51:40,680 --> 00:51:42,440
And so how do we bring these worlds together?

998
00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:45,400
You know, Ruth, we only have a couple of minutes left.

999
00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:48,040
And as you know, the guests always get the last word.

1000
00:51:49,160 --> 00:51:51,240
Give us some advice about how we can feel more empowered,

1001
00:51:51,240 --> 00:51:52,600
especially during times of adversity.

1002
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:56,840
Take a deep breath like I just did.

1003
00:51:57,400 --> 00:52:01,720
Because I think this adversity will always be part

1004
00:52:01,720 --> 00:52:04,520
of our human condition, unfortunately.

1005
00:52:04,520 --> 00:52:06,840
And it's how we deal with it, how we go through it,

1006
00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:08,760
how we share parts of ourselves.

1007
00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:11,720
We don't have to do everything alone.

1008
00:52:11,720 --> 00:52:14,760
And I think sometimes when we're hiding parts of ourselves,

1009
00:52:15,240 --> 00:52:18,120
we feel like, again, we're the only ones.

1010
00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:21,800
And so as we start to let down some of those guards,

1011
00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:23,240
some of those boundaries,

1012
00:52:23,240 --> 00:52:26,040
we allow for people to come in and connect with us.

1013
00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:29,000
And so that's the goal here is connection.

1014
00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:33,720
And if we can pause and just, and again, but Chris,

1015
00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:37,480
it starts with us, right?

1016
00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:40,200
If we take the first step in acknowledging what it is

1017
00:52:40,200 --> 00:52:42,520
that's holding us back and hiding,

1018
00:52:43,080 --> 00:52:45,160
that's where, that's how we make the movement forward.

1019
00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:47,640
I've said this a few times.

1020
00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:49,160
My mother used to use the phrase,

1021
00:52:49,160 --> 00:52:50,840
we can't change the world today,

1022
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:52,440
but we can change the world around us.

1023
00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:53,800
Yeah, absolutely.

1024
00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:55,320
You got a partner champ.

1025
00:52:55,320 --> 00:52:56,280
I love it.

1026
00:52:56,280 --> 00:52:58,200
And ditto, you have one back

1027
00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:00,840
because I have been impressed with everything you're doing

1028
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:03,400
and continue to advocate for you.

1029
00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:06,280
And I just, I love the connection.

1030
00:53:06,280 --> 00:53:07,240
So thank you.

1031
00:53:07,240 --> 00:53:08,040
No, thank you.

1032
00:53:08,040 --> 00:53:10,040
Ruth Rathblatt, absolute pleasure

1033
00:53:10,040 --> 00:53:11,720
and honor having us again today.

1034
00:53:11,720 --> 00:53:12,360
Great seeing you.

1035
00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:14,520
Thank you for your time and sharing your insights.

1036
00:53:14,520 --> 00:53:15,000
Thank you.

1037
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:15,720
Back at you, Chris.

1038
00:53:16,520 --> 00:53:17,960
I'm Chris Meek, run of time.

1039
00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:18,920
We'll see you next week.

1040
00:53:18,920 --> 00:53:20,280
Same time, same place.

1041
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:21,560
Until then, stay safe

1042
00:53:21,560 --> 00:53:23,400
and keep taking your next steps forward.

1043
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:31,240
Thanks for tuning in to Next Steps Forward.

1044
00:53:31,240 --> 00:53:34,200
Be sure to join Chris Meek for another great show

1045
00:53:34,200 --> 00:53:36,520
next Tuesday at 10 a.m. Pacific time

1046
00:53:36,520 --> 00:53:38,440
and 1 p.m. Eastern time

1047
00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:41,240
on the Voice America Empowerment Channel.

1048
00:53:41,240 --> 00:53:44,760
This week, make things happen in your life.