You Don't Have to Change to Change Everything w/ Beth Kurland

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There are few things that make people successful.

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Taking a step forward to change their lives is one successful trait, but it takes some

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time to get there.

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How do you move forward to greet the success that awaits you?

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Welcome to Next Steps Forward with host Chris Meek.

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Each week, Chris brings on another guest who has successfully taken the next steps forward.

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Now, here is Chris Meek.

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Hello, I'm Chris Meek, and you've tuned in to this week's episode of Next Steps Forward.

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As always, it's a pleasure to have you with us.

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Our special guest today is Dr. Beth Kerland.

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Beth is a student clinical psychologist with three decades of experience.

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She's also a TEDx Talk speaker, as well as a sought-after public speaker.

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Dr. Kerland is a mind-body coach and the author of three award-winning books, Dancing on the

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Tightrope, Transcending the Habits of Your Mind and Awakening to Your Fullest Life, The

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Transformative Power of Ten Minutes.

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An eight-week guide to reducing stress and cultivating well-being, and Gifts of the Rain

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Puddle, Poems, Meditations, and Reflections for the Mindful Soul.

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Her latest book is You Don't Have to Change to Change Everything, Six Ways to Shift Your

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Vantage Point, Stop Striving for Happy, and Find True Well-Being.

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Beth blogs for Psychology Today and is the creator of the Well-Being Toolkit online program,

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and she lives in the Boston area.

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Dr. Beth Kerland, welcome to Next Steps Forward.

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Thank you so much for having me.

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I'm excited to be here.

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Thanks for your time.

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I know how busy you are.

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Beth, there's so much to talk about with you today, but let's make sure we keep your

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publicist happy by talking first about your latest book.

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Okay.

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You Don't Have to Change to Change Everything, Six Ways to Shift Your Vantage Point, Stop

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Striving for Happy, and Find True Well-Being, which was published earlier this year.

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A key premise of the book is that it's not about trying to change yourself.

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It's about meeting yourself where you are.

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How does someone do that?

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So I think about that in a couple of different ways.

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I think it starts with...

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Awareness.

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A lot of times we go through our lives, our day, we're on autopilot.

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And so we need to start noticing what's happening here.

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And especially a lot of my book, a lot of what I'm referring to is really our inner states.

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What's happening under the hood?

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What's happening inside here?

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And so a lot of times we're either just ignoring it.

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We're not...

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We're not in tune with it.

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We may be pushing away what's going on.

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And when we meet ourselves where we are, we bring awareness to what's happening.

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So it's kind of like...

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I think about it like shining a flashlight in a dark room.

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If you're in a pitch black room, you're trying to get from point A to point B, and there's

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obstacles, you'd be tripping and stumbling.

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If you turn on a flashlight, the room's illuminated and the obstacles don't go away, but you could

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see more clearly what's there.

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And it's then kind of holding a space, allowing and accepting and acknowledging whatever is

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happening as a starting point, because I don't think we're often taught how to do that, or

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we're biologically wired to often do otherwise, or we get caught up in this automatic pilot.

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So it's really about meeting and greeting what's here as a starting point, and from

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there, seeing...

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What's needed?

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What's helpful?

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How can I be present?

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I think about it like if you've ever been in the presence of just a really good friend

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who will just sit and listen and hold a space for wherever you're at.

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In that kind of presence, there's a way in which just whatever's there has a space to

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show up.

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So I guess that's...

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Yeah.

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Nope.

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That's a great place to start.

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Now, let's focus on that.

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An important word, change.

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Would you elaborate on why we don't have to, quote, change to change everything?

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And how does change come about if we're not changing ourselves?

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Yeah.

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So I had fun with the title a little bit, and really thinking about this idea of change

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that most people think about change.

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And I think especially in the self-help world, there's often can be a sense of, I need to

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fix myself.

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I need...

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There's something wrong, and it needs to be fixed.

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I need to change myself.

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I need to change how I'm feeling in order to be okay.

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Or I need to change my circumstances, and there's certainly nothing wrong and can be

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helpful doing that.

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But sometimes we can't always change that.

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So the focus of this book is really about how do we change our relationship to what's

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happening inside of us?

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So it's not about...

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I don't want to fix and change what's arising, but I can change where I'm standing, where

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I'm looking from.

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So for example, me being caught, let's say, in a moment of stress and overwhelm, if I'm

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kind of swallowed up in that moment, I'm activated, I'm triggered, I'm just kind of

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overtaken, it happens.

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It happens to all of us.

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But if I shift where I'm looking from, and now I become...

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I'm aware of Beth, who is struggling with this difficult moment, and I'm able to kind

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of have this mindful view of stepping outside of it enough to see what's happening, that

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shifts the vantage point, that shifts the lens, and it allows for a lot of different

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inner resources that are already here that we can then begin to tap into.

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So I think about...

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I think about this idea we don't have to change to change everything, that we have

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these amazing inner resources, but we don't always know how to access them.

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And when we can shift our vantage point, shift where we're looking from, shift our perspective,

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we're not changing ourselves, we're not even changing our external circumstances, but things

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begin to change from there.

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And happy to kind of dive deeper into that, but just kind of a little overview.

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And we will.

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And that's a great place to start.

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I appreciate that.

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You believe that we don't typically listen to our inner experiences.

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First, what are inner experiences?

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And second, what is it about inner experiences that causes us not to open up?

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Yeah.

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So when I'm talking about inner experiences, I'm really talking about what we would call

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our emotions, physical sensations that we experience in our body.

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So it might also be a tension, a tightness.

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Sometimes my anxiety can be expressed as heart beating faster.

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So it might have more of a physiological expression to it.

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But just this inner, what I would say, especially with some of the more difficult emotions,

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inner turbulence that we all feel in the midst of the ups and downs of our day.

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And so here's the thing, that we're biologically wired, and many of us, myself certainly, socially

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and culturally conditioned as well, to push away what's unpleasant and to seek what's

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pleasant.

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And that was a really adaptive strategy for our Stone Age ancestors, helped with survival.

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And yet in our modern lives, what we are often wired to do is push away those internal experiences

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that are unpleasant.

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And so in doing so, we can actually cut ourselves off from a great source of information and

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also.

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So from parts of ourselves that may want to be seen and heard and acknowledged in order

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to move through whatever is happening, you know, in that moment in our life.

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In your experience, what happens to us when we stuff down those unpleasant emotions rather

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than dealing with them head on?

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Yeah.

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So I think about it a little bit like putting a lid on a pot of boiling water sometimes,

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you know, that eventually.

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If that water is boiling long enough, it begins to spill over, begins to kind of leak over

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the sides and that kind of thing.

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And, you know, most of the research that I've come across shows that in the long term, there

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are times and places, I will say for sure, that it may be appropriate or even necessary

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to put away our emotions, to deal immediately with some threat at hand or that kind of thing.

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But in the long term.

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When we suppress or avoid or push away some of these inner experiences, first of all,

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it takes a lot of energy to do that.

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You know, imagine standing at the door and holding the, you know, pressing the door so

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that this, you know, unpleasant visitor can't come through.

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You know, that can become exhausting after a while.

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We can exhaust our resources.

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And in the long term, you know, again, the research shows us that for our psychological

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well-being.

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Being able to find some middle ground where we're not overtaken by these emotions, right?

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We don't want to be flooded.

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We don't want to be, you know, so, so overwhelmed that we can't, we can't deal with them.

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But on the other hand, the other extreme of pushing away, avoiding, suppressing, that

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kind of thing doesn't tend to work so well in the long term.

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So where, where is there a middle ground in which we can meet and greet?

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And, you know, meet ourselves where we are and work from there.

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You know, I was just taking some notes.

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We were talking there and you kind of touched on a few different things that I was writing

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down.

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You talked about how it takes energy and it's exhausting to meet these challenges head

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on.

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Why is it so hard for us to talk about some of our problems or admit that we might need

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help?

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Is it because we don't want to seem weak?

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Is it because it takes so much energy?

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Stigma, I know is a big word.

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What is it?

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All of the above?

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Yeah, I think so.

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I mean, I, I have.

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I have so many people who have come into my office over the years and I've been sitting

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with patients now for over 30 years and, um, and so many people will come in feeling like

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there's something wrong with me that I'm feeling this way, you know, and they might have experienced

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like a really significant loss and even, you know, start crying or something and they say,

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oh, I'm sorry.

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I'm sorry.

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I shouldn't, you know, I should be stronger.

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So I think we get these messages.

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Um, from lots of different places about how we need to be or what we should or shouldn't

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feel.

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Um, and so that can, you know, I guess show up in terms of, um, just feeling like I should

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be able to deal with this on my own.

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I should be stronger.

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I shouldn't need help.

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Um, and that kind of thing.

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And what I've seen, I feel like I have such a privilege from, from my seat.

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You know, over these 30 years of, um, of just seeing like we're all the common humanity

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that we all experience.

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Um, and, and how essential it is to just have those connections and to be able to seek help

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in whatever form that takes.

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Of course, I'm biased in terms of therapy and how helpful it's been for myself, certainly

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through the years.

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And, you know, I, I see for my patients, but, um, but I think help can come in lots of different

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forms.

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And, um, and, and just being able to recognize that we're human and yeah, these, these struggles

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are probably more common than most people realize, you know, whatever they may be going

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through.

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They're not alone.

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I do a lot of work in the veteran and first responder mental health space.

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And right before COVID, I'd really seen a shift globally in the mental health sort of

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status of everybody of the world.

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And then obviously COVID hit and we'll talk a little bit about it later.

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But,

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but, but, you know, I've been waiting for, and we're seeing it now that what I'm calling

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the tsunami effect of the mental health crisis post COVID.

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Now, the one good thing that I've been saying over the last year or so since the pandemic

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ended is that the one positive thing that happened throughout COVID is that it put a

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big spotlight on mental health and it's okay to not be okay.

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We should be here that all the time.

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Um, I referenced Jim Ursae, the owner of the Indianapolis Colts.

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I'm dying to get him on the show.

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Uh, but he created a campaign called kicking the stigma and is really out there publicly

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doing his works with one of their, uh, star linebackers.

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We were seeing a lot more, uh, athletes.

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You're seeing more movie stars coming forward on this.

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Do you think that that will help with a cultural shift in terms of saying, you know, there's

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something wrong with me.

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I don't want to talk about it.

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I'm just gonna bottle it up versus if Michael Phelps can be out there talking about committing

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suicide or, um, smiles or anyone else.

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We've seen a few golfers lately, a golfer about a month ago or a few months ago committed

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suicide.

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Do you think by having people like that out there, it's going to change that narrative

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for us?

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Absolutely.

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I think that can be really,

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really helpful for people, especially to, you know, look out at people who are well

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known in some capacity or maybe, you know, um, if, yeah, I know somebody who I admire

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out there and they're sharing their story and they're being authentic and, you know,

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people sharing about, yeah, things like depression and anxiety are a lot of people struggle with

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it.

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And I think there is so much shame and there can be so much stigma, stigma around that.

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Um, but yeah, if I can hear stories of other people out there that are in the pop culture

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or in, you know, the, whatever, whatever different, uh, realms and, and hear other people going

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through something like that, then there's a sense of, okay, I'm not alone, you know,

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00:14:16,060 --> 00:14:18,600
and other people are going through this too.

237
00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:23,060
And I think it really can help to decrease that stigma for sure.

238
00:14:23,660 --> 00:14:26,340
Um, and, and recognize, yep.

239
00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:29,680
These are, this is just part of our human experience.

240
00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:32,780
And again, going back to what you say, and it's okay to ask for help.

241
00:14:32,780 --> 00:14:34,420
It's okay to talk about these things.

242
00:14:34,620 --> 00:14:36,380
It's important to do so.

243
00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:37,680
It's important for our healing.

244
00:14:38,420 --> 00:14:41,420
And one thing I've learned in some of the research I did in the first responder space,

245
00:14:41,420 --> 00:14:45,460
which I think can transfer over to the general population, if you will.

246
00:14:45,780 --> 00:14:49,560
I always thought there was one specific traumatic event that would affect a first responder.

247
00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:52,260
They pulled a dead body of a car.

248
00:14:52,260 --> 00:14:54,740
They found a dead child, something like that.

249
00:14:54,780 --> 00:14:56,260
That would certainly affect anybody.

250
00:14:56,720 --> 00:15:03,500
But the consensus was it was 25 or 30 years of traumatic event after traumatic event after event.

251
00:15:03,860 --> 00:15:07,620
Do you think that transfers over to I'll call it mainstream population?

252
00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:12,440
I know that their job is significantly different than most of ours, but is it more common to

253
00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:15,860
have a series or at least more than one traumatic event to weigh on somebody?

254
00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:24,380
Yeah, I think, you know, again, from sitting with people for so many years and, and I guess

255
00:15:24,380 --> 00:15:33,820
maybe I have, you know, sampling bias, perhaps in some respect, but, but I think that, you know,

256
00:15:33,820 --> 00:15:40,820
most of the people who come through my door are pretty representative of, you know, the general

257
00:15:40,820 --> 00:15:41,580
population.

258
00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:48,240
And, and I think that this idea of, I think of it as like big T trauma and little T trauma.

259
00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:54,360
And that even when we don't experience maybe some of those more big T trauma, we don't experience some of those more big T trauma.

260
00:15:54,380 --> 00:15:55,980
Traumas, traumatic events.

261
00:15:56,540 --> 00:16:01,660
Most of us have experienced a lot of little T traumas.

262
00:16:02,100 --> 00:16:11,800
You know, the things that, you know, being bullied in third grade or, or having, you know, a parent maybe who yells and, and screams in the house.

263
00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:23,780
Well-meaning, but not knowing how else to, you know, manage a situation or, you know, whatever those kinds of events that we just as human beings that we experience.

264
00:16:24,060 --> 00:16:24,360
So.

265
00:16:24,380 --> 00:16:28,600
So I think that there can, yeah.

266
00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:43,180
And those things can accumulate and they affect how we see the world and, and how our nervous system responds to things and, and these beliefs that get kind of go under the surface of our awareness.

267
00:16:43,180 --> 00:16:52,980
So we begin to operate going through the world with certain beliefs about ourselves, about, you know, the world, about.

268
00:16:52,980 --> 00:16:59,500
You know, how we see ourselves and, and those beliefs often can be distorted.

269
00:16:59,700 --> 00:17:00,380
They can be inaccurate.

270
00:17:00,540 --> 00:17:03,200
They can be based on really early information.

271
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We do the best we could at age six or four or seven, you know, to, to make sense of the world.

272
00:17:09,980 --> 00:17:18,600
But then we carry those beliefs around with us, not realizing that at age 20 or 30 or 50, they don't really fit us anymore.

273
00:17:18,700 --> 00:17:19,700
They're not so accurate.

274
00:17:19,700 --> 00:17:22,700
And yet, you know, we may not be.

275
00:17:22,980 --> 00:17:25,700
We may not be aware that those are still guiding our behaviors.

276
00:17:26,780 --> 00:17:28,500
Big T trauma versus little T trauma.

277
00:17:28,620 --> 00:17:29,600
I've never heard that before.

278
00:17:29,780 --> 00:17:31,940
And I hope you don't mind if I use that going forward.

279
00:17:32,020 --> 00:17:33,560
It makes, makes complete sense.

280
00:17:34,020 --> 00:17:34,460
Yeah.

281
00:17:34,980 --> 00:17:37,400
So you write about six vantage points.

282
00:17:37,820 --> 00:17:40,360
Would you share them with us and why each are so important?

283
00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:42,160
Sure.

284
00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:47,940
And you tell me how much detail you can probably talk an hour about each one, but.

285
00:17:48,060 --> 00:17:48,660
You have 40 minutes.

286
00:17:48,740 --> 00:17:49,260
Go for it.

287
00:17:49,260 --> 00:17:49,700
Yeah.

288
00:17:51,220 --> 00:17:52,580
Just dip our toe.

289
00:17:52,980 --> 00:17:54,080
Into each one.

290
00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:58,200
So I guess what I would say as a starting point is that.

291
00:17:59,340 --> 00:18:15,480
I believe, and this is not, you know, my belief is just coming from the research and my reading and studying over the years, but that, that wellbeing is an innate capacity that we all have, but it can be hard to access.

292
00:18:16,220 --> 00:18:18,760
Sometimes, especially, you know, in the ups and downs of our life.

293
00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:21,520
And it's not something that we typically learn.

294
00:18:22,220 --> 00:18:22,580
Uh,

295
00:18:22,980 --> 00:18:34,940
it's not something that we typically learn, but it can be hard to access, but it can be hard to, uh, how to access, how to strengthen, um, I also heard Richard Davidson, who's, um, one of my favorite neuroscientists, and he does some wonderful research, but talks about this idea.

296
00:18:34,940 --> 00:18:42,660
He, he said at one point, I may be quoting or paraphrasing, um, wellbeing is fundamentally no different than learning to play the cello.

297
00:18:43,140 --> 00:18:46,800
So, you know, this idea that it's also a skill that can be cultivated.

298
00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:51,740
And so each of these shifts of vantage point, as I think it was us.

299
00:18:51,740 --> 00:18:52,300
Well,

300
00:18:52,300 --> 00:18:52,860
into,

301
00:18:52,860 --> 00:18:53,740
into this,

302
00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:58,760
this deep well of wellbeing that is there for each of us.

303
00:18:58,820 --> 00:18:59,160
But again,

304
00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:03,420
maybe we don't quite know how to really open that door,

305
00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:03,820
if you will.

306
00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:05,040
So,

307
00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:06,640
um,

308
00:19:06,700 --> 00:19:12,500
and each of these vantage points also gives us a way to work with some of this inner turbulence,

309
00:19:12,500 --> 00:19:13,280
if you will,

310
00:19:13,360 --> 00:19:17,920
the ups and downs of our day-to-day lives that we experience.

311
00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:19,240
And most of us are taught,

312
00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:20,820
we're taught all manner of things in school.

313
00:19:20,940 --> 00:19:21,600
You know,

314
00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:22,220
we're taught,

315
00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:22,600
um,

316
00:19:22,860 --> 00:19:26,100
whatever I won't name it right.

317
00:19:26,100 --> 00:19:29,160
But just thinking about even what we're taught in our home and our homes,

318
00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:30,720
in our schools and our workplaces.

319
00:19:31,260 --> 00:19:33,260
And I would say most of the time,

320
00:19:33,260 --> 00:19:40,020
we're not taught what to do when we come up against these inner energies that are more unpleasant.

321
00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:41,480
And,

322
00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:44,340
and so we maybe tend to flounder.

323
00:19:44,340 --> 00:19:49,260
We tend to resort to the biological pushing away or avoiding or suppressing or getting overwhelmed by.

324
00:19:49,740 --> 00:19:51,340
So each of these vantage points is,

325
00:19:51,340 --> 00:19:52,840
is a way of really working with,

326
00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:53,340
with that.

327
00:19:53,340 --> 00:19:54,720
What do we do with that?

328
00:19:55,220 --> 00:19:56,160
So all that being said,

329
00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:57,020
a little background,

330
00:19:57,320 --> 00:19:57,700
um,

331
00:19:57,700 --> 00:20:00,640
the first vantage point that I talk about is the anchor view.

332
00:20:01,540 --> 00:20:06,340
And the anchor view really has to do with,

333
00:20:06,820 --> 00:20:07,360
um,

334
00:20:08,140 --> 00:20:09,400
we'll give you a little metaphor,

335
00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:15,900
but if you imagine that you're swimming in the ocean and a big storm whips up and you know,

336
00:20:15,900 --> 00:20:17,860
you try to fight against that storm,

337
00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:20,520
you might exhaust your resources.

338
00:20:20,940 --> 00:20:21,320
Um,

339
00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:22,660
if you let that storm,

340
00:20:22,660 --> 00:20:23,920
sweep you away,

341
00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:26,440
that's probably not going to be so great either.

342
00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:26,940
Um,

343
00:20:26,940 --> 00:20:29,920
but if you imagine that there's an anchor,

344
00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:37,060
a boat that's anchored nearby and you could grab onto a swim over to that boat,

345
00:20:37,060 --> 00:20:40,300
grab the rope that's anchored deep to the ocean floor.

346
00:20:40,300 --> 00:20:42,640
And now there's a sense of stability.

347
00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:44,680
There's a sense of safety,

348
00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:49,300
even in the middle of this storm from that vantage point,

349
00:20:49,300 --> 00:20:52,100
you're no longer caught in the storm.

350
00:20:52,100 --> 00:20:54,080
In the storm being swept away,

351
00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:59,740
you kind of have this safe anchor to hold and you may not be able to stop the storm,

352
00:20:59,740 --> 00:21:04,700
but you can watch it pass by and there's more ease there.

353
00:21:05,120 --> 00:21:19,160
And so the anchor view is really all about how do we grab that metaphorical anchor and really help our autonomic nervous system to feel more safe in the midst of,

354
00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:20,100
you know,

355
00:21:20,100 --> 00:21:22,100
some of these difficult,

356
00:21:22,100 --> 00:21:24,080
emotional emotions that we experience.

357
00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:25,220
Um,

358
00:21:26,060 --> 00:21:29,240
and I guess again,

359
00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:31,640
I'm just trying to think about that a quick,

360
00:21:31,940 --> 00:21:34,700
quick way to have this make sense for people.

361
00:21:35,020 --> 00:21:37,940
But essentially we have survival.

362
00:21:37,940 --> 00:21:39,080
What I think of as survival,

363
00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:40,760
wiring and thriving wiring.

364
00:21:41,420 --> 00:21:42,020
Um,

365
00:21:42,020 --> 00:21:51,960
we have these old survival pathways that are very present in our biology that people will be familiar with as kind of that classic fight flight or freeze response,

366
00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:52,040
or,

367
00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:53,120
or stress response.

368
00:21:53,300 --> 00:21:55,160
So when we come up against threats,

369
00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:57,440
quote threats in our environment,

370
00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:00,260
no longer the saber tooth tiger for the most part,

371
00:22:00,260 --> 00:22:01,160
but you know,

372
00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:03,740
it might be the traffic jams or too much to do,

373
00:22:03,740 --> 00:22:05,560
or getting the kids off to school or,

374
00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:05,900
or,

375
00:22:05,900 --> 00:22:06,440
you know,

376
00:22:06,500 --> 00:22:06,740
uh,

377
00:22:06,740 --> 00:22:10,040
work deadlines or financial stress or whatever that is.

378
00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:11,000
Um,

379
00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:16,640
our body can go into kind of a protective mode that was adaptive and reflexive.

380
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:17,520
Um,

381
00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:19,300
and we,

382
00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:20,420
in essence,

383
00:22:20,420 --> 00:22:21,980
the body's getting ready to fight.

384
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:25,480
Or to flee sometimes to free,

385
00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:29,680
free go into a more of that freeze or shut down response when we meet,

386
00:22:29,700 --> 00:22:30,040
you know,

387
00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:31,500
face these challenges in our day.

388
00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:32,080
And,

389
00:22:32,100 --> 00:22:32,680
and that's,

390
00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:33,420
again,

391
00:22:33,420 --> 00:22:38,400
this is a natural adaptive response that we all experience,

392
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:43,560
but a lot of us can get stuck there without realizing it.

393
00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:45,480
We can get stuck in the,

394
00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:47,340
let's say that this stress responses,

395
00:22:47,340 --> 00:22:50,460
and that can show up as anxiety and worry.

396
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:51,480
And,

397
00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:51,900
uh,

398
00:22:51,900 --> 00:22:52,440
you know,

399
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:53,140
sometimes,

400
00:22:53,180 --> 00:22:53,780
you know,

401
00:22:53,820 --> 00:23:00,360
more of the depressive moods or irritability or anger,

402
00:23:00,660 --> 00:23:01,800
these kinds of things.

403
00:23:02,180 --> 00:23:02,680
Um,

404
00:23:02,940 --> 00:23:10,520
and the anchor view is all about helping to really bring to shift physiologically.

405
00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:13,000
What's happening in our body to bring more cues of safety,

406
00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:14,140
to work with mind,

407
00:23:14,140 --> 00:23:20,120
body practices that can help us activate different networks,

408
00:23:20,120 --> 00:23:21,880
different circuits in our body.

409
00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:26,800
And brain and nervous system that when we can bring in a little bit more

410
00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:28,120
balanced energy,

411
00:23:28,540 --> 00:23:31,180
we have access to creativity.

412
00:23:31,180 --> 00:23:32,280
We have access to being,

413
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:33,940
seeing a bigger perspective.

414
00:23:33,940 --> 00:23:36,100
We have access to problem solving.

415
00:23:36,420 --> 00:23:38,200
We have access to all these things that,

416
00:23:38,260 --> 00:23:39,080
um,

417
00:23:39,340 --> 00:23:39,920
you know,

418
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:40,260
we're,

419
00:23:40,260 --> 00:23:43,900
we're not able to access when we're in that fight or flight mode.

420
00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:45,280
So,

421
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:46,160
uh,

422
00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:47,040
the anchor view is,

423
00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:51,040
is really learning how to work with our biology.

424
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:51,280
Um,

425
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:54,060
and understanding that.

426
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:54,480
And,

427
00:23:54,500 --> 00:23:54,800
and again,

428
00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:56,120
using some of these mind,

429
00:23:56,180 --> 00:24:00,580
body practices that can help us to find the calm and in the middle of the

430
00:24:00,580 --> 00:24:00,860
storm.

431
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:02,080
Um,

432
00:24:02,220 --> 00:24:04,600
and I guess I'll see if you know,

433
00:24:05,120 --> 00:24:05,920
great analogy.

434
00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:07,780
And it's just a teaser to get folks to buy your book.

435
00:24:08,340 --> 00:24:08,780
Uh,

436
00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:09,520
and that being said,

437
00:24:09,540 --> 00:24:11,080
where can people find your most recent book?

438
00:24:11,940 --> 00:24:13,920
They can find it on my website,

439
00:24:14,100 --> 00:24:15,580
bethcurland.com.

440
00:24:15,940 --> 00:24:16,380
Uh,

441
00:24:16,380 --> 00:24:17,440
they can find it on Amazon,

442
00:24:17,580 --> 00:24:18,120
Barnes and Noble,

443
00:24:18,120 --> 00:24:18,400
you know,

444
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:20,960
any of the major outlets where books are,

445
00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:21,320
sold.

446
00:24:21,820 --> 00:24:22,220
Perfect.

447
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:23,160
And,

448
00:24:23,300 --> 00:24:23,340
you know,

449
00:24:23,340 --> 00:24:24,920
we're talking about six vantage points.

450
00:24:25,420 --> 00:24:28,020
Do you have a favorite vantage point or one that you find that's most

451
00:24:28,020 --> 00:24:28,440
powerful?

452
00:24:30,460 --> 00:24:30,860
Oh,

453
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:31,840
it's hard to pick.

454
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:32,740
I guess they're all,

455
00:24:32,940 --> 00:24:33,960
you love all your children equally.

456
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:34,680
Yeah.

457
00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:34,940
Yeah.

458
00:24:34,940 --> 00:24:35,160
Yeah.

459
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:37,940
But I would say I'll share this one with you.

460
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:41,800
The one that I have found most transformative in my own life and with my

461
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:42,220
patients,

462
00:24:42,300 --> 00:24:46,020
I think is the one that I call the compassionate parent view.

463
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:50,760
And so this vantage point is all about,

464
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:50,880
uh,

465
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:52,880
what do we do when we come up against,

466
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:53,180
again,

467
00:24:53,180 --> 00:24:54,180
some of these more unpleasant emotional experiences in our day-to-day lives.

468
00:24:54,180 --> 00:24:55,180
And a lot of times if you think about,

469
00:24:55,180 --> 00:24:56,180
I use this analogy of a parent could respond to,

470
00:24:56,180 --> 00:24:57,180
let's say a child's in distress.

471
00:24:57,180 --> 00:24:58,180
A child is upset,

472
00:24:58,180 --> 00:24:59,180
something they really wanted to do didn't work out.

473
00:24:59,180 --> 00:25:00,180
They got canceled,

474
00:25:00,180 --> 00:25:01,180
you know,

475
00:25:01,180 --> 00:25:02,180
and so they're feeling really sad.

476
00:25:02,180 --> 00:25:03,180
They're really down.

477
00:25:03,180 --> 00:25:04,180
And the parents are like,

478
00:25:04,180 --> 00:25:05,180
well,

479
00:25:05,180 --> 00:25:06,180
you know,

480
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:22,280
And the parent could respond in one of three ways.

481
00:25:22,580 --> 00:25:25,440
They might ignore that child completely,

482
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:28,480
and just let the child kind of flounder on their own.

483
00:25:28,980 --> 00:25:29,980
Um,

484
00:25:29,980 --> 00:25:31,980
they might say to that child,

485
00:25:31,980 --> 00:25:32,980
you know?

486
00:25:32,980 --> 00:25:33,980
Hey,

487
00:25:33,980 --> 00:25:34,980
snap out of it,

488
00:25:34,980 --> 00:25:35,980
um,

489
00:25:35,980 --> 00:25:36,980
you know,

490
00:25:36,980 --> 00:25:37,980
cut it out.

491
00:25:37,980 --> 00:25:38,980
Stop whining.

492
00:25:38,980 --> 00:25:39,980
Just like,

493
00:25:39,980 --> 00:25:40,980
move on,

494
00:25:40,980 --> 00:25:41,980
wipe off that.

495
00:25:41,980 --> 00:25:42,980
You know,

496
00:25:42,980 --> 00:25:43,980
wipe away those tears.

497
00:25:43,980 --> 00:25:44,980
Let's just,

498
00:25:44,980 --> 00:25:45,980
you know,

499
00:25:45,980 --> 00:25:46,980
see that smile.

500
00:25:46,980 --> 00:25:47,980
Um,

501
00:25:47,980 --> 00:25:48,980
or they could maybe sit next to the child,

502
00:25:48,980 --> 00:25:49,980
put their arm around the child and say,

503
00:25:49,980 --> 00:25:50,540
um,

504
00:25:50,540 --> 00:25:50,680
you know,

505
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:56,000
you know, I can understand how disappointed you are, that it was something you were really

506
00:25:56,000 --> 00:26:02,520
looking forward to, and I see how upset you are. And I'm here with you. And, you know, how can we,

507
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:08,640
you know, move forward through this. And I think most of us would probably say I would like that

508
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:14,640
third parent response, what if I was upset. But when it comes to ourselves, we often treat

509
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:19,740
ourselves like that first or second parent. We kind of dismiss our own emotions, tell ourselves

510
00:26:19,740 --> 00:26:26,700
to, you know, hey, you know, just put it away, or cut it out, or stop whining, or whatever that is.

511
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:32,140
And we don't often learn how to meet our own inner distress with that kind of compassionate response.

512
00:26:32,820 --> 00:26:41,140
So the compassionate parent view is all about how we can really be with our own whatever anger,

513
00:26:41,140 --> 00:26:49,720
or sadness, or irritability, or whatnot, in a way that there's a kind of alchemy, I think,

514
00:26:49,740 --> 00:26:57,340
that happens when we are able to do that. When we're able to meet our distress in this kind of a

515
00:26:57,340 --> 00:27:02,720
way that really, and again, I think going back to something I said at the beginning, if you think

516
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:06,500
about maybe a time when you were really upset about something, and you sat with a good friend,

517
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:10,280
you know, and you just said, oh, my God, you wouldn't believe what happened. I had this terrible

518
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:17,620
day. And if you really feel supported, and heard, and seen, that friend doesn't maybe need to even

519
00:27:17,620 --> 00:27:19,620
say much, you know.

520
00:27:19,740 --> 00:27:23,520
But you just get that feeling like, hey, I'm here with you. And in that, there's like some

521
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:29,000
ease that washes over. You know, there's a sense like, ah, I can move on. I can handle this. Okay,

522
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:35,360
I can see more clearly, you know, how I want to move forward. When we learn how to do that for

523
00:27:35,360 --> 00:27:45,100
ourselves, that's where the transformation, I think, really comes in. And so, yeah, that can

524
00:27:45,100 --> 00:27:49,260
be so powerful. Well, I think to that point, what are your thoughts on just actually

525
00:27:49,740 --> 00:27:53,460
saying it to somebody, a close friend, a confidant, whatever, maybe like, this is

526
00:27:53,460 --> 00:27:57,820
bothering me. I just got to get it off my chest. Is that sort of a step one to sort of opening up

527
00:27:57,820 --> 00:28:02,840
for deeper conversations or deeper discussions on the harder topics?

528
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:11,180
Yeah. I mean, I think probably not enough people do that in the sense, again, going back to what

529
00:28:11,180 --> 00:28:17,060
you said, feeling like I got to hold this in, or I shouldn't ask for help, or that kind of thing.

530
00:28:17,060 --> 00:28:19,300
So I think there can be...

531
00:28:19,740 --> 00:28:26,560
I think there can be some immense support in being able to start there or to share,

532
00:28:27,180 --> 00:28:32,480
you know, to have some, a trusted person who you can just talk and are not going to feel judged

533
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:36,760
and not going to necessarily, not somebody who's necessarily going to jump in and try to fix it

534
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:44,420
for you, but just hold the space and really listen, you know? And that can be a starting

535
00:28:44,420 --> 00:28:48,460
point. And then again, learning how to do that for ourselves.

536
00:28:49,740 --> 00:28:56,520
Can really help to create this kind of emotional alchemy. I guess I think of it as

537
00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:59,180
in a way that just makes things easier to bear.

538
00:29:00,540 --> 00:29:04,380
You write about survival wiring, which I think you referenced earlier about being in the ocean

539
00:29:04,380 --> 00:29:09,280
during a storm versus thriving wiring. Would you take a deep dive into the difference and

540
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:11,380
why it's important to recognize between the two?

541
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:19,400
Yeah. So again, I find this so helpful for myself. And I, you know, and I share this a lot, but I,

542
00:29:19,740 --> 00:29:24,900
I'm not a person who's going to sit and say, I'm wired kind of more on the type A anxious by nature

543
00:29:24,900 --> 00:29:31,780
and temperament and so forth. So I, I've, I'm a good case study for myself, you know, like really

544
00:29:31,780 --> 00:29:38,360
working with this over my lifetime. And, and I share that. I feel like I'm an expert on stress

545
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:46,560
because I'm so good at feeling it myself. And so it, to understand that there is this, this

546
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:54,560
biological adaptive wiring that we have that is really trying to protect us. It's trying to

547
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:59,480
protect us from a saber tooth tiger. Our brain doesn't really recognize the difference between

548
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:04,660
what it's doing biologically, revving up the heart, revving up the blood pressure, getting us

549
00:30:04,660 --> 00:30:11,360
to, you know, get all activated and whatnot to deal with a threat being stuck in traffic late

550
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:16,320
for an important meeting versus that saber tooth tiger coming at us.

551
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:24,580
And, and so when we can begin with an understanding of that a little bit and, oh, okay, that's my

552
00:30:24,580 --> 00:30:32,420
survival wiring trying to, to protect me either by giving me resources to fight, to flee or to

553
00:30:32,420 --> 00:30:39,360
freeze. Those are all adaptive protective responses. They're not bad. They just might be

554
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:45,240
not the resources that I most need to actually meet the modern day challenge at hand.

555
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:51,320
And so when I can then understand that, oh, there's also this, uh, social engagement system

556
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:57,180
it's sometimes referred to. And we have the, I guess, without getting too much, but anybody who's,

557
00:30:57,260 --> 00:31:02,660
who's a little, um, interested in the science, this whole ventral vagal pathway, this vagus nerve

558
00:31:02,660 --> 00:31:08,560
has different branches and this ventral pathway or vagus nerve has connections to our heart.

559
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:15,060
It has, um, connections to, you know, lots of muscles in our face and our ears and all this

560
00:31:15,060 --> 00:31:15,220
stuff.

561
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:25,640
And, um, that helps to, to bring a balance into our nervous system. Um, so that when we,

562
00:31:26,020 --> 00:31:33,800
when we're starting to experience stress, if we have ways of accessing and bringing more balance

563
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:41,920
into the autonomic nervous system, um, it, it allows us to then access, um, step out of that

564
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:45,040
primitive circuitry and begin to access our higher cortex.

565
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:52,380
Uh, our thinking brain, we can, we can problem solve better. We have access to bigger perspective

566
00:31:52,380 --> 00:31:56,640
on things. And to, you know, when you're not being chased by a tiger, it makes sense that

567
00:31:56,640 --> 00:32:04,280
you'd be able to explore, right. And you would be able to invent and be creative and be affiliative

568
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:12,080
and, you know, um, seek out support from the tribe. And these were also important survival

569
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:14,900
strategies that, that helped our ancestors.

570
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:22,200
Um, and, and, and when we can understand that and learn how to, you know, and I'll give you an

571
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:29,480
example, like during the pandemic, um, the early stages for me, for many of us, I think, but I was

572
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:36,920
really aware of myself being often in the state of, um, you know, fight, flight, freeze, uh, a lot

573
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:42,240
of anxiety and uncertainty. And when I could just recognize that kind of meet myself where I'm at,

574
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:45,180
you know, maybe I'm waking up in the middle of the night and it's like, okay,

575
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:50,620
this heart's going and all this, the thoughts going through my head and just reckon, oh, this

576
00:32:50,620 --> 00:32:58,480
is my, this is my survival wiring trying to protect me. And yet these resources, all of this

577
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:04,840
activation isn't actually helping keep me safer right now, but there are other things that I can

578
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:10,680
do. You know, I can put my hand on my heart. I can begin to slow down my exhalations. I can begin

579
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:21,400
and support of the people in my life. I can, you know, uh, bring myself to the awareness in this

580
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:25,900
moment. I'm in the safety of my bedroom and I could feel the mattress underneath me. You know,

581
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:34,120
these things then bring balance into my nervous system and I'm then better equipped to maybe say,

582
00:33:34,260 --> 00:33:40,500
okay, how can I go forward from here? Um, begin to gain access to these other resources. So long,

583
00:33:40,500 --> 00:33:44,400
long answer. I could keep talking about that, but I hope that's a little bit helpful.

584
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:50,800
It is. And something completely off topic, but I have to ask, there are a lot of ferocious

585
00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:55,080
beasts out there that I'd think of. You've referenced saber tooth tiger about four or

586
00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:59,380
five times. What just, I'm just curious what the connection is with that. That's just something I

587
00:33:59,380 --> 00:34:02,760
wouldn't think about. It's just like the most fierce animal you can think of.

588
00:34:04,500 --> 00:34:10,240
So I guess I just, what I've heard talked about, you know, in my own studies of, um,

589
00:34:10,240 --> 00:34:14,120
just understanding the evolutionary, um,

590
00:34:14,620 --> 00:34:15,220
value.

591
00:34:15,240 --> 00:34:22,020
Value of the, these mechanisms that we still live by that are still very much wired into our

592
00:34:22,020 --> 00:34:29,180
biology. And so that a lot of these things really evolved during, you know, that period of time

593
00:34:29,180 --> 00:34:36,200
when our ancestors were faced with that kind of that external physical threat of the saber tooth

594
00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:44,620
tiger. And so all of these responses, we really helped our species survive. And again,

595
00:34:44,620 --> 00:34:49,540
the challenge and, you know, we need, we still need, and I think that wiring serves an important

596
00:34:49,540 --> 00:34:57,320
place. Um, but it can sometimes still take over at times in our modern lives when, when there may be

597
00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:05,320
other resources that could be even more effective for helping us meet our challenges. So I guess,

598
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:09,920
helpful. No, very helpful. Thank you. Yeah. I like to call a show a show first. We've never

599
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:13,320
had a saber tooth tiger reference before. So it was our first time. So I was just curious about

600
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:14,160
that. So thank you.

601
00:35:14,620 --> 00:35:14,980
Yeah.

602
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:20,700
So Beth, a few moments ago, you referenced yourself as being a case study. I understand

603
00:35:20,700 --> 00:35:24,800
that your own healing journey played a part in your desire to write this book. Would you share

604
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:25,640
that story with us?

605
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:36,240
Yeah. So I guess I would say kind of going back to when I was in high school, um, my mom died in a

606
00:35:36,240 --> 00:35:44,000
car accident when I was 15. And so, you know, that was pretty significant trauma for my family.

607
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:52,340
And I, and I think, you know, that experience certainly shaped me in so many ways, um, as,

608
00:35:52,340 --> 00:36:00,720
as trauma does for, you know, anybody who's lived through that. Um, and, and so there was a lot of

609
00:36:00,720 --> 00:36:05,460
my own healing journey. I think a journey would have been there anyway, you know, maybe in some,

610
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:13,620
some similar ways, but certainly for me, there was, uh, this sense of, you know, how, how to,

611
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:22,260
process all this enormous grief. And interesting for me, you know, it was really, I would say

612
00:36:22,260 --> 00:36:31,820
most profoundly when I had my own kids, when I became a mother, that I really did my deepest

613
00:36:31,820 --> 00:36:39,260
healing work around that. Um, because I think there were ways that I kind of pushed it away

614
00:36:39,260 --> 00:36:43,740
and held it at bay and moved on. And, you know, I know at the time, like I,

615
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:52,900
as I recall, I never missed a day of school. Um, I got straight A's. I just kind of mustered on.

616
00:36:53,340 --> 00:36:59,460
And there were many ways that, that, you know, that may have been adaptive at that time. But

617
00:36:59,460 --> 00:37:08,740
for me, like really learning how to be with and, and be present to that grief and some of these

618
00:37:08,740 --> 00:37:13,980
other feelings that I was trying to avoid was definitely a big piece.

619
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:17,120
You know, my own personal healing journey.

620
00:37:18,740 --> 00:37:24,160
One of your books, gifts of the rain puddle poems, meditations, and reflections for the mindful soul

621
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:28,620
is obviously a book of poems, reflections, and meditations. Was that sort of writing

622
00:37:28,620 --> 00:37:35,460
mainly a hobby for you? Is it therapeutic? Yeah. So I would say, um, I remember, I think

623
00:37:35,460 --> 00:37:43,480
I wrote my first poem when I was six years old. Um, and interestingly, yeah, it was when

624
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:51,020
we were moving, making a big move at that time. And I was feeling sad about, um, leaving my friend

625
00:37:51,020 --> 00:37:56,640
and that kind of thing. And so poetry became for me at a really early age, I think a way to express,

626
00:37:56,640 --> 00:38:06,300
um, these emotions that I hadn't maybe otherwise I didn't have words for. Um, but somehow through

627
00:38:06,300 --> 00:38:11,480
my writing, that was just a vehicle for me to do that. And then over the years, I really found that

628
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:20,040
writing poetry allowed me to just be present with these deep emotions within me, whether more of the

629
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:28,760
awe, you know, of life and also the, the grief and the struggles and the, you know, challenges,

630
00:38:29,060 --> 00:38:34,000
um, and being able to, and so in some ways, looking back, I think that my, my writing

631
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:40,900
poetry is kind of like a mindfulness meditation and action in some ways. Um, and actually for,

632
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:47,220
for the first younger part of my life, I really thought I was going to be a writer as a profession

633
00:38:47,220 --> 00:38:54,500
because I was just drawn to that. And then I kind of came across the path of psychology and went

634
00:38:54,500 --> 00:38:59,780
that route, but it's been really fun as you know, my later years here, my adult years to be able to

635
00:38:59,780 --> 00:39:05,300
circle back to that writing and connect to it in different ways. And, um, you know, even in this

636
00:39:05,300 --> 00:39:11,220
new book there, I, there's not poetry, but there's a lot of personal,

637
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:16,680
vignettes and a little bit more poetic writing, I would say at times in sharing some of my personal

638
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:26,060
story that, um, yeah, has been, has been just a fun expression for me and, um, helpful for,

639
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:32,620
for my own therapeutic growth. No, thank you for sharing that. You're a mind body coach.

640
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:36,180
I know it's going to be a new term and concept to some folks in our audience. So let's delve

641
00:39:36,180 --> 00:39:40,100
into how psychological principles integrate with our physical health and wellness practices.

642
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:43,200
Can you explain what mind body coaching involves?

643
00:39:45,020 --> 00:39:52,660
Yeah. So, I mean, I think it may be different for each person, uh, to some degree. Um, but for me,

644
00:39:52,660 --> 00:40:01,280
it's like, I am so passionate about, because of my own experiences in, in working with mind body

645
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:08,540
practices and, um, being able to, you know, teach them to other people over the years that, um,

646
00:40:09,240 --> 00:40:10,720
and I just see how,

647
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:17,140
valuable they are and in terms of, of transformation and wellbeing and all of that. So,

648
00:40:17,140 --> 00:40:25,200
so it's really about being able to teach people these tools so that they can use it in their own

649
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:32,660
lives to access their inner resources and tap into this well of wellbeing and to really be able to

650
00:40:32,660 --> 00:40:41,020
live their fullest life. Um, and, and I get a lot of excitement and, you know, being able to do that

651
00:40:41,020 --> 00:40:41,460
and really, and,

652
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:48,500
and seeing, you know, mostly because of just seeing the effect and how helpful it is for others

653
00:40:48,500 --> 00:40:54,160
when they can access these different modalities. What are the key benefits of mind body coaching

654
00:40:54,160 --> 00:41:02,760
for mental and physical health? Oh, what are the, the key benefits of mind body practices? Um,

655
00:41:03,660 --> 00:41:11,000
wow. You know, I, I think, I think so many things. Um, I mean, there's a lot of interesting research

656
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:18,360
I've just been listening to even this week to like new things coming out about the power of the

657
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:25,880
mind and body in terms of our physical health. It's quite, quite remarkable. Um, you know,

658
00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:32,440
that a lot of physical conditions have, um, let's say

659
00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:40,400
there may be a stress-based component or that stress can exacerbate. So what happens is when

660
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:41,460
our body is in a state of stress, we're not able to, we're not able to, we're not able to

661
00:41:41,460 --> 00:41:49,560
of stress, right? We are preparing to deal with that threat of again, quote that, that metaphorical

662
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:57,160
saber tooth tiger. And so, um, resources are getting allocated towards, um, towards preparing

663
00:41:57,160 --> 00:42:03,780
our bodies to fight or to flee or, or to freeze, to shut down. When we're in a more balanced state,

664
00:42:03,780 --> 00:42:10,800
our body is in a very different state where the focus is on growth, restoration, and healing.

665
00:42:11,460 --> 00:42:18,000
And so again, when we're not, you know, when, when, when our nervous system is, is feeling

666
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:25,320
more grounded in safety, our bodies can heal. It can, you know, can focus on cell growth,

667
00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:30,580
all these things, immune functioning and so forth. So just from a physical perspective,

668
00:42:30,580 --> 00:42:39,580
it's really quite fascinating that when we can teach people how to help bring more balance into

669
00:42:39,900 --> 00:42:40,940
their bodies.

670
00:42:41,460 --> 00:42:51,300
to, um, work with that stress response and have ways of calming and shifting and, and so forth,

671
00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:57,640
being able to tap into more what I call heartfelt emotions. Um, there, there's some very profound

672
00:42:57,640 --> 00:43:02,440
physical and physiological changes that can happen that can affect our physical health,

673
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:10,500
but I think equally in terms of, um, of our mental health and, and wellbeing as well. And again,

674
00:43:10,500 --> 00:43:16,020
I think about this when we can tap into what I call this newer operating system, that, that sort

675
00:43:16,020 --> 00:43:19,980
of thriving circuits, it's kind of like opening up. I think of about like opening up a treasure

676
00:43:19,980 --> 00:43:26,580
chest, unlocking a treasure chest. And in that treasure chest, there's care, compassion,

677
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:36,200
creativity, perspective, um, self-compassion, uh, you know, all of these different kinds of

678
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:39,620
equanimity and calm and clarity and,

679
00:43:39,620 --> 00:43:39,860
um,

680
00:43:40,500 --> 00:43:46,000
whatever, all these things that become accessible to us. And that, those things are profoundly

681
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:52,160
supportive for our mental health and for our wellbeing. And so those mind body practices

682
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:57,660
kind of give the key to open up this treasure chest. It's one way of thinking about it.

683
00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:02,480
Well, I guess part two is how do you integrate mind body coaching with more traditional

684
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:10,340
therapeutic approaches? Um, yeah, so I, you know, everybody may have a different take on this,

685
00:44:10,500 --> 00:44:17,420
but as a therapist, I can certainly say that, um, not in, not in all cases, but where it's

686
00:44:17,420 --> 00:44:23,940
appropriate, you know, a lot of my patients, I will, I will integrate or bring in some kinds

687
00:44:23,940 --> 00:44:33,460
of mind body practices to help with whatever, you know, situations we're addressing. Um, and,

688
00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:38,120
and I've really seen some profound healing that can happen, even going back to what I was talking

689
00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:39,940
about, that compassionate parent view.

690
00:44:40,500 --> 00:44:48,280
But there are different mind body practices of, of teaching people how to, uh, you know, be

691
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:53,720
compassionate towards themselves when they're experiencing inner distress. And we can work

692
00:44:53,720 --> 00:45:00,780
with that in through meditation or through imagery or visualization, and it can be immensely

693
00:45:00,780 --> 00:45:08,460
powerful in terms of, um, really helping people shift, shift to their vantage points,

694
00:45:08,460 --> 00:45:10,460
shift the way that they're relating to their inner experience.

695
00:45:10,500 --> 00:45:16,660
Um, teaching people, you know, a lot of people who come to therapy have stress of various kinds.

696
00:45:16,660 --> 00:45:23,060
And so having tools to really be able to know what to do to work with stress or anxiety and,

697
00:45:23,060 --> 00:45:28,760
and, you know, and we even trauma, you know, so much of the research with trauma, um, and then

698
00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:35,400
some of the work of Bessel van der Kolk and others shows that the body is, is a huge piece of the

699
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:40,160
healing that we can't, you know, we can't heal trauma just from the head alone.

700
00:45:40,500 --> 00:45:45,740
And just from talking, I mean, the talking therapy can be really helpful, but when we

701
00:45:45,740 --> 00:45:50,520
also incorporate the body, then I think that's where profound healing really happens.

702
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:55,520
Beth, you said that when you first studied psychology, there's a big focus on quote,

703
00:45:55,660 --> 00:46:00,440
identifying what was wrong with people and trying to fix this. Isn't that what patients expect that

704
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:04,080
there's something wrong with me, uh, something wrong in my life and I need you to help me fix

705
00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:09,820
it so I can have a better life and better relationships. I think that may be true for a

706
00:46:09,820 --> 00:46:10,480
lot of people who come to therapy. I think that's a big focus. I think that's a big focus.

707
00:46:10,500 --> 00:46:18,800
Um, and, and in my book, I really tried to like flip around this whole fix it kind of, um, you

708
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:27,820
know, approach. Um, so I was very fortunate in the year after graduate school. So when, when I did

709
00:46:27,820 --> 00:46:38,100
my internship, I worked with Dr. Robert Brooks, who was at that time, um, in charge of the, uh,

710
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:40,460
pro a program at McLean hospital.

711
00:46:40,500 --> 00:46:47,440
Working with children. And so I studied with him for a year. And one of the things that Bob taught

712
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:56,720
me that I share in the book is this idea that, uh, change comes about not by finding what's wrong

713
00:46:56,720 --> 00:47:03,920
and fixing it, but by finding what's right and strengthening it. And I feel like that's such a

714
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:10,060
profound kind of shift in the way that we look at things. And he worked with, he was working at that

715
00:47:10,060 --> 00:47:10,480
time. And he was working at that time. And he was working at that time. And he was working at that

716
00:47:10,500 --> 00:47:12,000
time. And he was working at that time. And he was working with, you know, children with some

717
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:17,460
pretty significant behavioral issues. And what he found is that rather than going in and trying to

718
00:47:17,460 --> 00:47:22,500
say, okay, this, here's the problem with this kid and we got to, you know, go in and fix, he would

719
00:47:22,500 --> 00:47:28,300
find and help the teachers and others and parents find the child's islands of competence, as he

720
00:47:28,300 --> 00:47:32,960
called it, the things that they're doing well, the strengths that they have and build upon that

721
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:40,020
and really strengthen that. And that approach made such a huge difference in these kids'

722
00:47:40,180 --> 00:47:40,480
behavior.

723
00:47:41,300 --> 00:47:49,180
And so I really took this model with me and through all these years. And so this actually

724
00:47:49,180 --> 00:47:56,340
became one of the vantage points that I talk about the mirror view in the book. And often when we look

725
00:47:56,340 --> 00:48:02,040
in the real mirror or the metaphorical mirror, we see what's wrong, what's missing, what we don't

726
00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:08,520
like. You know, we have this negativity bias of our brain as human beings to focus on the mistakes

727
00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:10,340
we make that the, you know,

728
00:48:10,500 --> 00:48:14,620
the things that we feel like we do wrong or the things we feel are broken or that we need to fix,

729
00:48:14,700 --> 00:48:21,040
you know. And oftentimes we can overlook our strengths. We can overlook the things we're

730
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:25,420
already doing well that are supporting us. We can overlook these inner qualities that we have

731
00:48:25,420 --> 00:48:31,320
that are maybe there, but we're not paying attention because our brain is narrowing in

732
00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:37,900
on that thing we did wrong and not the 10 things we did well during the day. And so that mirror

733
00:48:37,900 --> 00:48:40,300
view is really all about, you know, the things that we're already doing well that are supporting us.

734
00:48:40,300 --> 00:48:45,880
Being able to look in the mirror and have it reflect back the strengths, the positive

735
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:51,980
qualities we have, our islands of confidence, as Bob would call it, these sorts of things that,

736
00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:58,020
and I think that's where profound change can really come from. And I think of my role as a

737
00:48:58,020 --> 00:49:03,580
therapist in some way as holding up a mirror for people and really helping them see their strengths.

738
00:49:03,580 --> 00:49:09,560
You know, somebody might come in having experienced trauma and feel, you know, kind of the sense of,

739
00:49:10,300 --> 00:49:14,420
you know, broken in some way or there's something wrong with me or I need to fix it.

740
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:19,600
And I try to hold up a mirror and say, look at all the ways that you've been incredibly resilient in

741
00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:26,620
your life. And how do we then like build on this and help you strengthen this, you know, to move

742
00:49:26,620 --> 00:49:31,460
forward? You know, you said something very interesting to me a moment ago. You did one

743
00:49:31,460 --> 00:49:36,640
bad thing today and you're not focused on the 10 great things you did. Why do we do that? Are we

744
00:49:36,640 --> 00:49:40,040
just wired that way? Is it just, we have to be perfect all the time?

745
00:49:40,300 --> 00:49:40,940
What is that?

746
00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:47,620
Yeah, I think it's our evolutionary wiring. And again, it kind of made sense for our Stone Age

747
00:49:47,620 --> 00:49:53,520
ancestors to be focused on the negatives, the problem, where the problems were lurking. You

748
00:49:53,520 --> 00:50:01,000
know, I need to remember where that tiger is lurking behind what grass over where, you know,

749
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:08,220
and that was more important than remembering, you know, even Rick Hansen, one of my favorite

750
00:50:08,220 --> 00:50:10,280
neuropsychologists talks about.

751
00:50:10,300 --> 00:50:18,800
Remembering where those carrots might be found, because, you know, if I mess up on, you know, and

752
00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:27,480
forget where that tiger is, no more carrots forever, right? So that became more important for

753
00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:33,400
our ancestors to be able to notice, anticipate the problems, anticipate, you know, what could go

754
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:40,280
wrong. Again, smelling the roses might be lovely, but that wasn't going to help our ancestors,

755
00:50:40,300 --> 00:50:45,440
or survive. So our brains are still, we carry a lot of this old wiring with us. And the more we can

756
00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:48,480
shine the light on that and understand that, we can really work with it.

757
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:54,040
We briefly touched on COVID and mental health early on the show. The World Health Organization

758
00:50:54,040 --> 00:50:59,960
declared an end to the pandemic phase of COVID-19 on May 5th, 2023. That's been almost 18 months

759
00:50:59,960 --> 00:51:03,940
ago, but there's been a prevailing thought that the mental health impact of the pandemic would

760
00:51:03,940 --> 00:51:08,320
last for much longer. How has or did the COVID-19 pandemic affect your practice?

761
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:15,780
Hmm. Well, I guess, I mean, one thing that strikes me so much is I feel like

762
00:51:15,780 --> 00:51:22,960
access to mental health, in some ways, you know, in a positive way that the

763
00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:32,740
telehealth, right, virtual visit that have become so commonplace during the pandemic has made mental

764
00:51:32,740 --> 00:51:38,300
health more accessible. But at the same time, what I've seen such a change in the way that mental

765
00:51:38,320 --> 00:51:41,220
health has changed, you know, I think that's a challenge with is that there's not enough mental

766
00:51:41,220 --> 00:51:47,700
health providers at this point for that, you know, I've had so many people reach out and say,

767
00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:53,620
I've been trying for, you know, six months to find somebody. And so I think the increase in

768
00:51:53,620 --> 00:52:00,980
mental health issues, or maybe just awareness of that has made it or the shortage of, you know,

769
00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:06,580
I'm not sure exactly there. But I think, you know, that that becomes a challenge. And I think that

770
00:52:06,580 --> 00:52:08,300
what I've seen, too,

771
00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:13,740
is just this developmentally, wherever people were at during the pandemic, you know, you take

772
00:52:13,740 --> 00:52:17,180
kids, whatever point in their development, were they graduating high school? Were they in the

773
00:52:17,180 --> 00:52:21,860
midst of college? Were they, you know, in the middle of a transition or whatnot? And some of

774
00:52:21,860 --> 00:52:29,900
that, I feel like kind of got a little bit frozen in time or, you know, stunted, in some ways,

775
00:52:30,020 --> 00:52:34,600
just challenges that kids are still working through adults as well.

776
00:52:34,900 --> 00:52:38,040
No, agree. We went through that. My middle daughter just graduated high school.

777
00:52:38,320 --> 00:52:43,180
Last week, and, you know, has the first year and a half of COVID was it so just a big transition

778
00:52:43,180 --> 00:52:48,180
time. So I'm waiting for a Harvard Business School case study or some psychological review on all

779
00:52:48,180 --> 00:52:53,240
that to come out, but the jury still out. Beth, we've just got about two minutes left. How would

780
00:52:53,240 --> 00:52:57,040
someone get in touch with you if they want you to speak to a group? And again, how can they find you

781
00:52:57,040 --> 00:53:02,760
don't have to change to change everything and your other books? Yeah, so my website is a good place

782
00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:07,440
to sort of access a lot of different things, including a bunch of free resources that I have

783
00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:07,960
on there.

784
00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:14,020
And there's a contact form as well. I love to hear from people. So and that is my name,

785
00:53:14,340 --> 00:53:24,440
Beth Kurland, B-E-T-H-K-U-R-L-A-N-D.com. And my books are all on there with links as well. But

786
00:53:24,440 --> 00:53:32,300
people can also go on to Amazon or again, whatever your favorite, you know, bookstore online and

787
00:53:32,300 --> 00:53:37,320
order it. I also have an audio book, actually, that came out recently as well.

788
00:53:38,320 --> 00:53:40,640
I was who like to listen as opposed to read.

789
00:53:42,060 --> 00:53:43,340
Just in time for the drive to the beach.

790
00:53:44,320 --> 00:53:45,060
Yeah, yeah.

791
00:53:46,260 --> 00:53:48,780
Dr. Beth Kurland, thank you so much for being with us today.

792
00:53:49,480 --> 00:53:51,260
Oh, thank you so much. It was my pleasure.

793
00:53:51,420 --> 00:53:55,340
No, thank you. I'm Chris Meek, run of time. We'll see you next week. Same time,

794
00:53:55,340 --> 00:53:59,380
same place. Until then, stay safe and keep taking your next steps forward.

795
00:54:04,040 --> 00:54:08,280
Thanks for tuning in to Next Steps Forward. Be sure to join Chris,

796
00:54:08,320 --> 00:54:14,140
Meek for another great show next Tuesday at 10 a.m. Pacific Time and 1 p.m. Eastern Time

797
00:54:14,140 --> 00:54:20,280
on the Voice America Empowerment Channel. This week, make things happen in your life.

798
00:54:38,320 --> 00:54:41,400
We'll see you next week.