BROUGHT BACK FROM EXTINCTION WHY REMOVE THEM NOW?

Happening LIVE Saturday, August 29th, at 10:00 AM Pacific / 1:00 PM Eastern on the Action Hour Podcast. 🔴 Watch on UnchainedTV:https://watch.unchainedtv.com/action-hour Mexican gray wolves were brought back from near extinction. But now, some ranching, hunting and land-use interests argue that their numbers must be controlled. Are these endangered wolves truly recovering—or are efforts underway to remove them before their recovery is secure? Joining me are Claire Musser, Executive Director of the Grand Canyon Wolf Recovery Project, and Marie Buquicchio, a wild-wolf advocate and high school teacher. Tune in, learn what is happening and discover how you can take action. Action Hour Podcast is hosted by Lindsey Baker. #MexicanGrayWolf #WolfRecovery #WildWolves #ReintroductionProgram #EndangeredSpecies #ActionHourPodcast #UnchainedTV

What You'll Discover

Jane Velez-Mitchell speaks with defendants Carla Cabral and Sally Zito following the dramatic court appearance. The case raises larger questions about open rescue, animal cruelty allegations and the legal risks faced by animal activists. UnchainedTV reports that controversy also surrounds an alleged prior relationship between the prosecuting District Attorney and the owners of the farm property—an issue the defendants characterize as a conflict of interest. The District Attorney's office was ordered to disclose information concerning that alleged relationship.

"Going to trial is important so that we can present this evidence to the general public."
– Carla Cabral

Join the Adventure

Hear directly from the activists at the center of this extraordinary animal rights trial and discover why its outcome could matter to the broader Right to Rescue movement. Listen now, share this episode and follow UnchainedTV for continuing coverage.

Jane Velez-Mitchell is an award-winning journalist, TV producer and NY Times bestselling author who founded UnchainedTV, the world's premier plant-based streaming network. UnchainedTV offers 2,000 free documentaries, cooking shows, lifestyle and news programs. Download UnchainedTV free on mobile or TV streaming devices like Amazon Fire, Roku, and Apple TV. Watch online: https://watch.unchainedtv.com/browse

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TRANSCRIPT:

(0:00) Welcome to Action Hour. I'm your host, Lindsay Baker. (0:04) Mexican gray wolves were brought back from near extinction, (0:08) but now some ranching, hunting, and land use (0:11) interests argue that their numbers must be controlled.

(0:16) So are these endangered wolves truly recovering (0:19) or are other interests trying to remove them before their recovery is secure? (0:26) Today I have joining me Claire Mooser, Executive Director of Grand Canyon Wolf (0:31) Recovery Project, and Marie Buquickio, who is a high school teacher and wolf advocate. (0:39) Some people don't know how important wolves are.(0:43) And they might say, well, they're just getting rid of them because they're a nuisance or(0:48) they're, you know, they're causing problems.

(0:51) But really it's kind of astounding when you find out what wolves actually contribute. (1:04) One of the most exciting scientific findings of the past half century (1:10) has been the discovery of widespread trophic cascades. (1:15) A trophic cascade is an ecological process which starts at the top of the food chain (1:21) and tumbles all the way down to the bottom.

(1:24) And the classic example is what happened in the Yellowstone National Park in the United States (1:29) when wolves were reintroduced in 1995. (1:34) Now, we all know that wolves kill various species of animals, (1:38) but perhaps we're slightly less aware that they give life to many others. (1:46) If anyone wants to watch it, it's on my podcast, Action Hour podcast on Unchained TV, (1:53) and it's with Dr. Reese Halter, and we go into great detail.

(1:56) But I'm going to ask both of you, I'll start with Claire. (2:00) Can you talk a little bit about why wolves are so important in the ecological scheme of things? (2:07) Yeah, so our Mexican gray wolves, they're actually listed on a 10J listing right now. (2:11) And so they're actually down as being non-essential and experimental.

(2:17) So what the agencies say is that, well, they're an experimental population, (2:21) so if they all die, then it doesn't matter, take it or leave it, we'll just start over. (2:26) And they've also listed them as non-essential, (2:28) which means that do they actually have any impact on the ecosystem? (2:33) Well, we don't really know. (2:35) But what you've shown in the film, How Wolves Change Rivers, (2:38) is that wolves do have a really important part to play.

(2:42) And a lot of the work that we do is talking to students about the ecological role of wolves,(2:47) because they keep everybody moving. (2:49) So they stop the grazers overgrazing on the riparian areas, (2:53) because when they do that, they're vulnerable. (2:55) So when the wolves are around, they will move on, (2:58) and it gives the opportunity for the plants to regrow and for the beavers to return.

(3:02) So the thing with our Mexican gray wolves, though, is we have such a small population(3:06) that it's really difficult to get the data to show what's going on on the ground, (3:11) because there's so many different factors. (3:13) And Yellowstone is great because it's like this ecological hub, (3:17) it's like this, you know, this living lab, if you like, (3:20) where all of these scientists can come together. (3:23) And so it is a lot more difficult for us to get that kind of evidence in Arizona.

(3:27) But just because we don't know exactly what's going on (3:30) doesn't mean to say that it isn't happening. (3:33) And we know from Yellowstone that wolves are important. (3:35) It's really easy, especially with the agencies and the narrative that they put out (3:40) to tell the story that they want everybody to know.

(3:44) So in breeding, our Mexican gray wolves is closely related to each other as a brother and sister. (3:49) And we know that we're not collecting the data on what that actually means. (3:54) So I've spoken to people that work in the SAFE program, (3:58) and it looks like instances of nasal cancer are higher in Mexican gray wolves.

(4:03) We also see other instances where, I can't remember the actual scientific term for it, (4:08) but it's where their pads fuse together. (4:11) And so we've seen wolves that have these conditions out there on the landscape. (4:16) So because we're not collecting that data, (4:18) we can't turn around and then turn around and say, well, this isn't an issue.

(4:23) If you're as closely related as brother and sister, (4:26) and you're an experimental population, (4:27) if something does sweep through the wild population, (4:30) then yes, then they're just going to go, okay, we can turn around and we can start over. (4:34) And also what they're also showing with this is (4:38) they want Mexican gray wolves to stay in this designated area, (4:43) which is south of the I-40. (4:45) And what we're not doing, (4:47) and that's part of the system that we're working in, (4:49) is we're not giving the opportunity to learn from the wolves themselves.

(4:52) So we know that wolves want to disperse. (4:54) We know that if we have wolves coming down from Colorado, (4:58) that that will actually be genetic recovery. (5:02) Whereas because of the language and how the agencies are set up, (5:07) they are putting out the narrative that that is going to be called genetic swamping.

(5:11) But what we're saying is there was a natural buffer. (5:13) And with wolf recovery, the thing that I struggle with the most is (5:17) we keep talking about recovery as this magic moment in time(5:21) that we want to get back to in 17 or 1800 and whatever. (5:25) But what we're not doing is we're not thinking about (5:28) what the future of wolf recovery looks like.

(5:30) There was a wolf quite famous, I guess, in his own right. (5:34) He had his own website and everything, Taylor. (5:37) And he kept crossing the I-40 and they kept bringing him back.

(5:42) I believe it was three times they kept bringing him back saying, (5:45) no, you have to stay on this side of the I-40, (5:48) even though he was trying to naturally do what they do. (5:52) And after the third time, they let him go and he ended up getting hit by a car. (5:58) So, you know, we lost his not only his DNA, (6:03) but we lost the opportunity to learn from him (6:05) what he could have done if they just would have left him alone the first time.

(6:09) And then we had a female wolf, Asha, same thing. (6:13) You know, she wanted to do what she wanted to do naturally. (6:17) And they kept grabbing her and grabbing her and grabbing her.

(6:20) And then they finally kind of locked her up with this mate. (6:23) And they kept her until she breeded and they were supposed to release her. (6:28) And they didn't release her until it was a ton of public outcry.

(6:31) And Claire could speak more to the details in that. (6:34) But this is what we're doing to our wolves. (6:36) We are forcing them to do all kinds of things that are not coming naturally to them(6:40) instead of letting them do what naturally comes to them and learning from them.

(6:45) They're saying that they are not taking into consideration the way they naturally behave.(6:53) So we're seeing this conflict. (6:56) Let's go back to the numbers for a minute here.

(6:59) Because they're so low, it makes you think how even as a layman, (7:04) how could this be, you know, a recovery when for 10 consecutive years, (7:10) there's been population growth and they say it's growing too fast. (7:13) 400% or something like that. (7:16) But there's 317 wolves total in both states.

(7:20) Is that correct? (7:22) Correct. (7:23) Yeah, yeah. (7:24) Yeah, the original numbers.

(7:26) So the first number that came out was 319. (7:28) And then they adjusted it to 317 across Arizona and New Mexico. (7:33) But the original science and there's a link to that on our website.

(7:36) When they started thinking about wolf recovery, (7:38) they were talking about 700 plus wolves across Arizona, New Mexico, (7:43) and then another population in Mexico as well. (7:46) So, but that science, again, it was remastered into something that the agencies, (7:52) story that the agencies wanted to tell. (7:54) One of the issues, again, it's difficult because our Mexican grey wolves are (8:00) significantly smaller than the grey wolves up north.

(8:03) And again, because we're in a warmer climate, (8:05) they are adaptable to a warmer climate. (8:08) They're smaller. (8:09) But that means that they get mistaken, (8:12) either accidentally or probably accidentally on purpose for coyotes.

(8:18) And so all you have to do is go, (8:21) oh, my bad, I thought I shot a coyote. (8:24) It turns out that it was actually a wolf. (8:26) But well, my bad, I didn't.

(8:28) And unless you go out with an intent to kill an endangered species, (8:32) you aren't going to get prosecuted for it. (8:34) If you went out and said to all your mates in the bar that I shot a Mexican grey wolf, (8:39) and that's what I want to do this weekend, (8:40) that's the only way you're going to get prosecuted. (8:43) So learn how you can support our mission and the wolves by going to gcwolfrecovery.org. (8:50) And on there, we put out action alerts on our press page.

(8:54) You can volunteer from anywhere in the world. (8:57) We have programs that you can get involved in remotely. (9:00) If you're in the Flagstaff area or Arizona, (9:02) you can come and help us out there on the ground.

(9:04) Because what we do know about wolf recovery is this isn't a wolf issue. (9:09) This is a social issue. (9:10) This is people not understanding what it means to have wolves on the landscape.

(9:15) And we need to change the mindset. (9:17) It doesn't matter how good the data is. (9:18) It doesn't matter how good the science is.

(9:20) If no one cares about it, nothing's going to change. (9:22) And we've also seen that with these issues, (9:26) we have been doing a lot of the same things since the 90s. (9:29) And we're still in this predicament.

(9:31) So what can we do differently and help us with our mission? (9:36) And together, we can create a better world for humans and for wolves. (9:40) Thank you. (9:41) Well said.

(9:43) Let's get a little bit back into what they said about breeding these wolves domestically.(9:50) So just so people understand the process, they're putting these wolves either, (9:55) some of them, there were seven left, right? (9:58) And then they got them from zoos and other places.(10:01) And started like controlled dens.

(10:04) Is that how that works? (10:05) Can you address that, Claire? (10:07) Yes, the recovery program, it started when they put wolves, (10:12) Mexican gray wolves on the Endangered Species Act. (10:14) And then in 98, we got the first wolves out of their paws on the ground. (10:19) So before that, in the 80s, they were working on the recovery in the captive population.

(10:25) So all of our Mexican gray wolves are descendants from just seven individuals. (10:29) One of them, Nina, she was a wild wolf. (10:31) A female wolf that was caught in Mexico.

(10:33) And she was actually brought back to the US. (10:37) And she was pregnant at the time.(10:39) But because of the stress of capture, she actually lost those puppies.

(10:43) Eventually, she did end up having puppies of her own. (10:46) But we mustn't forget that, you know, Nina as a wolf didn't sign up for this. (10:50) And she ended up having puppies with her own pups.

(10:54) Because that was the only way that we would get enough wolves into the population.(10:57) So would we do that again with the science and the technology we have now? (11:03) Who knows? (11:04) But we can't dismiss the things that these wolves have gone through (11:08) for the greater good, which is their species. (11:12) So you can find out a lot more about Nina and the founding wolves (11:15) as part of our Lobo Family Tree Project.

(11:18) And what we're doing is we're piecing together the rich lives of all of the wolves. (11:22) So in our family tree right now, we have just shy of 2,500 wolves (11:28) that we've managed to link together. (11:29) And we've got the last wolves to put in the tree now.

(11:33) So we will have over 3,000 wolves of Mexican gray wolves (11:37) that we've ever had since the start of the recovery program. (11:40) And our goal, again, is to show that they have rich, emotional, connected lives. (11:46) They have family packs.

(11:48) They are out there on the landscape or part of the captive program. (11:52) And what does that look like? (11:53) Because right now, all of this information, I think, (11:56) is deliberately spread around in lots of different places. (11:59) So our goal is to put everything together so that we can get a true picture (12:03) of what recovery means from the perspective of the individual wolves themselves.

(12:09) Over a so-called overpopulation that they're hinting towards, (12:12) or maybe more than hinting towards, how valid is that? (12:17) And what is the evidence that they're giving? (12:20) Can you address that? (12:21) Well, it's not valid. It's not. (12:25) There are 930,000 documented...(12:30) In fact, I wrote it down.

(12:31) There's 930,000 documented cattle here in Arizona, (12:37) and 143 documented wolves, they said. (12:45) And this is USDA site. (12:50) And nine recorded confirmed cattle death.

(12:56) In New Mexico, there are 1.28 million cattle (13:02) with 97 confirmed predation from wolves. (13:07) According to Arizona Fish and Game and U.S. FS Forest Service, (13:17) that is a statistically undetectable amount. (13:21) So the numbers are so low, less than 1%, (13:25) that they don't even matter.

(13:28) It doesn't even matter. (13:29) So the ranchers that are carrying on that the wolves are decimating their herds, (13:35) it's, you know, crying wolf, the expression crying wolf. (13:39) That's exactly what they're doing.

(13:40) We are being completely reactive when it comes to conflict. (13:44) So what we should be thinking about is conflict prevention. (13:48) So what can we do to support ranchers (13:50) so that they don't have any of these issues to begin with? (13:54) Because all it takes is for you to lose one cow, (13:58) and then the pain of this and the story, (14:02) it just starts to grow and it starts to snowball.

(14:04) If you're living in a community where everybody around you (14:07) tells you that you need to hate wolves, (14:09) even if you're sitting on the fence, what are you going to do? (14:12) You're probably going to hate wolves. (14:13) So we work really closely with an organization called Project Griff, (14:18) G-R-I-P-H.org. (14:20) You can find their website. (14:22) And they actually work with a rancher that is living alongside wolves.

(14:25) And what happens there is everything that they do is about prevention. (14:30) There is no reports of losing wolves or losing cows actually on this ranch (14:37) because they're working closely in this multispecies community, (14:41) which includes the ranchers, the horses, the cows, the bears. (14:45) I want to piggyback on something that Claire said before we get to this point.

(14:49) Senator Schiff from California, who is a Democrat, (14:53) and Danes from Montana, who's Republican, (14:56) are introducing a bill, 5234, (15:01) called Human Wildlife Conflict Reduction Act of 2026. (15:05) And I bring that up because it's bipartisan. (15:07) I want to show that these things are bipartisan.

(15:10) And it wants to dedicate $20 million annually through 2031 (15:16) for the USDA to utilize proactive, non-lethal deterrents, (15:21) like range riders, like that Project Griff that Claire was just mentioning, (15:25) guard dogs, electric fencing. (15:28) And there is another bipartisan act that's called Safeguarding the ESA, (15:33) which is H.R. 9901, which again, bipartisan, (15:37) Representative Fitzpatrick, who's Republican from Pennsylvania, (15:40) and Quigley, who's Democratic from Illinois. (15:43) And they're looking to reinstate the traditional definition of harm,(15:48) which without that term, it will destroy habitats where these animals live.

(15:55) So you can't save species while you're destroying their home. (16:00) So bring that up to show that these are bipartisan issues. (16:03) This is not political.

(16:05) I'm just a school teacher. (16:06) I'm just a school teacher. (16:07) But anybody can email me at any time.

(16:10) I will gladly talk to anybody or reach out and coordinate with anybody. (16:17) They can go to endangered.org. (16:20) That's just an easy word, endangered.org. (16:23) That's why I always throw it out there. (16:25) Same thing with TeamWolf.org. (16:28) Again, it's easy to remember.

(16:30) Claire's site is amazing as well. (16:33) And that's the Grand Canyon Wolf Recovery Project.(16:37) Awesome.

(16:37) Okay, let's ask Claire. (16:39) Claire, I want to ask you now about the nonlethal solutions.(16:46) Is that a good thing? (16:48) Is that a slippery slope? (16:49) Tell us what you've learned about that, if you would.

(16:55) Yes. (16:56) So honestly, everything that I've learned about conflict prevention (17:00) comes through the work that I've been doing with Project Grif. (17:03) So Project Grif are based up in northeastern Washington.

(17:07) And before when we started, it was actually a conversation with my volunteers. (17:11) We're talking about conflict between wolves and ranchers. (17:14) But we don't actually know what we're talking about.

(17:17) We haven't seen it. (17:18) All we're doing is just retelling somebody else's stories. (17:22) So Daniel Curry, he's the Executive Director of Project Grif.

(17:26) So we take our students up there to learn about living alongside wolves. (17:30) So he is a conflict prevention specialist. (17:33) So that includes range riding, carcass removal, being out there on the landscape, (17:37) and really working with the communities and the wolves and the cows.

(17:41) And he's got another film out called Range Rider. (17:44) It's by Patagonia Films. (17:46) You can see an Emmy-winning PBS short called The Range Rider.

(17:51) And then he's also got his film made by PBS called The Wolf Land. (17:56) And you'll be able to see the kind of things that he does (17:58) and the way that he's able to really work with communities. (18:03) And Daniel, honestly, is the only person I've seen (18:05) that can walk into a room full of ranchers and have all of them, (18:09) or a majority of them, really interested in his services.

(18:12) So we're trying to get, or Daniel's trying to get his program out (18:16) across all of the states. (18:18) But the struggle is people don't want to pay for something (18:22) that they think the state agency should be doing that isn't happening. (18:26) And Daniel's success comes from having no wolves getting shot (18:31) and no cows getting eaten.

(18:32) So part of my role in his work is to really document the process, (18:38) show what he's doing. (18:39) We're working on another documentary as well about his work. (18:44) This is about a shift in mindset.

(18:46) This is about a want to have wolves on the landscape. (18:49) We're not asking ranchers to be wolf advocates. (18:51) We're asking them to let Project Griff (18:53) and the work that he's doing and that we're helping collaborate on (18:57) come in and actually work with you and see what your needs are.

(19:02) What we're doing is we're showing, and what Daniel's showing, (19:05) is we don't need to lethally remove wolves. (19:07) We need to set up these boundaries and these parameters (19:10) where wolves don't see cows as a source of food. (19:14) They go off and they realize that every time they see wolves out there, (19:17) there's this big guy with these dobermans and these horses.

(19:21) And occasionally I get shot in the backside with a rubber bullet. (19:23) Like I'm not even going to bother. (19:25) But then if Daniel disappears for a period of time, (19:28) then they will start testing and testing.

(19:31) And there's a way that they do that. (19:33) And then they'll start taking those routes.(19:34) So we just need to show the wolves (19:36) that this isn't somewhere that you want to hang out.

(19:38) You can pass through, (19:39) but it's not somewhere where you're going to spend any time. (19:43) So what you're trying to do is set up a model (19:45) that can be applied other places once you prove it works. (19:50) And you get the proper publicity.

(19:52) Marie, I'd like to let you step in now on that. (19:56) I just wanted to piggyback. (19:58) You can watch Wolfland on Cascade PBS and see Daniel.

(20:05) His last name is Curry, by the way, C-U-R-L-Y. (20:07) And you could see him in action.(20:09) It's a documentary on what he does.

(20:10) He's fabulous. (20:11) We've seen that wolves are struggling in Colorado. (20:15) We've seen that wolves are getting shot.

(20:16) And we've seen that ranchers don't feel supported. (20:19) And again, I've spoken to advocates working out there. (20:23) And the loss of wolves and the loss of cows is just, (20:26) well, it's a bump in the road.

(20:28) This is a new program. (20:29) This is what happens. (20:30) It's like any loss of life, be them wolves or cows.

(20:33) It's not a bump in the road if you're the one that dies. (20:36) So what we should be doing is thinking about (20:39) putting in a specialist team that can actually prevent (20:42) any of this stuff before the conflict escalates on a social level (20:48) and before wolves end up getting killed.(20:50) So it's a real shame that they didn't take on the opportunity (20:55) to learn from people that are living alongside five packs of wolves.

(20:59) It can be done, but it's an investment. (21:03) And all of the money that we're putting into paying out (21:05) for when wolves end up taking cows, (21:09) if we put that compensation money at the front end of this program (21:13) and we invested in things upfront, (21:16) we wouldn't even get to the point of needing to spend any of that money. (21:20) And so, again, it's about a shift in mindset.

(21:22) And it's about working in places before there is any drama. (21:27) Well, I know that these wolves, the ones in the program, (21:30) are treated differently because they're in an experimental program. (21:33) But what protections do they have and what's been happening? (21:37) Let's just run through that.

(21:39) I'm going to let Marie speak first. (21:41) Unfortunately, even with protections, they're not always protected. (21:46) So for instance, in New Mexico, just recently, (21:50) there was a trapper who killed a wolf (21:54) who is protected under the Endangered Species Act.

(21:57) And he was told to download an app (22:01) that told him where boundaries were. (22:04) And that was his penalty. (22:05) And then he did it again.

(22:07) And he suffocated this wolf with a sleeping bag. (22:11) And then he said, oh, you know, I tried to release him (22:13) and he got killed when I was trying to release him from the trap. (22:17) And that was it.

(22:17) That was his penalty. (22:19) And the governor stepped in and tried to get the AG to prosecute. (22:24) And they refused.

(22:26) So this guy violated the Endangered Species Act. (22:29) And nothing happened to him.(22:33) So even with protections, sometimes these poor animals (22:36) are getting killed and abused and tortured.

(22:40) And even with the law on their side, sometimes nothing has happened. (22:44) It's just a slap on the wrist. (22:46) So this is not a new story for me.

(22:50) Having done interviews now for five years and hundreds of people, (22:54) the same situation, whether it's elk, (22:57) whether it's wild horses, wild barrows, (23:01) these other interests coming in, commercial interests, (23:04) being involved in decision making. (23:07) And then slowly but surely, the area that's been designated (23:10) is eroded and the animals suffer.(23:13) It's a very common story.

(23:15) But the thing with the wolves, as opposed to the other animals, (23:18) wolves have been vilified for thousands of years. (23:21) You know, you have Hollywood, you have fairy tales, (23:23) the big bad wolf, you know, the wolf knocking at your door, (23:27) you know, Hollywood and idioms and figurative language (23:31) in our just our vernacular. (23:33) It's always the wolf portrayed as the bad guy.

(23:37) They have this stigma that we just can't seem to (23:41) let these poor animals shake.(23:43) It just constantly gets perpetuated. (23:46) And it has to be a shift.

(23:48) It just has to be a shift. (23:50) Yeah, and they're so essential. (23:52) That's the key.

(23:53) They're so essential to, you know, (23:56) they're actually an apex, is it called the apex predator, (24:00) which makes them at the top of the apex (24:03) where everything filters down.(24:05) And you can see that in the movie we talked about earlier. (24:07) They're also very social and family oriented.

(24:10) And people tend to overlook that part. (24:13) And that's the part that we need to focus on,(24:14) that they are social. (24:16) And, you know, dogs are one of America's favorite animals.

(24:21) There are no dogs without wolves. (24:23) Wolf is first dog. (24:24) People need to remember that.

(24:26) Claire, do you want to talk a little bit about (24:28) how much protection the government to date (24:31) has been giving these animals? (24:33) All of these things are all in flux now. (24:37) We've seen that they're pushing for wolves, (24:39) Mexican gray wolves to be also delisted and downlisted (24:43) and trying to group them in with the gray wolves up north. (24:46) So what happens when they get to 320 wolves (24:49) for several consecutive years (24:51) is they are up for changing that listing.

(24:55) And so what we need to do is (24:57) we really need to get people thinking about (24:59) what it means to live with wolves now. (25:01) We need to be addressing the social landscape(25:04) as well as the ecological landscape (25:06) when it comes to wolf recovery (25:07) and successful wolf recovery numbers. (25:11) It's not about the numbers.

(25:12) It's about having people that have respect (25:15) for wolves that are out there on the landscape (25:17) and providing those with them (25:18) the resources they need to live alongside wolves. (25:22) There's a lot of biologists and ecologists (25:24) working in this field, (25:26) but we need more social scientists (25:27) that can really get to the root of the social problem. (25:31) Because again, it's not about wolves.

(25:33) It's about all of the social issues (25:36) that wolves are used to represent. (25:38) So if you want to get involved, (25:39) there's lots of different programmes on our website. (25:42) So our Pathways programme is really about (25:44) giving access to field opportunities (25:46) for students that have barriers.

(25:49) So our programme is grant funded. (25:52) So the students get to come out there (25:53) and take part pretty much for free. (25:58) Can I piggyback on that for one second? (26:01) Yeah, go ahead.

(26:03) There is a group called Working Circle (26:07) that teaches ranches how to teach their cows (26:11) how to protect themselves from wolves. (26:14) And they work with ranches in Idaho(26:17) and California and Oregon and Arizona. (26:22) And if you go to their website, Working Circle, (26:25) you can see that they list the names, (26:28) the physical names of the ranches(26:29) that they deal with in California and Idaho.

(26:32) But when it comes to Arizona, (26:34) they cannot and do not list the Arizona ranches.(26:38) And they keep them anonymous (26:40) because the ranches in the Gila River area (26:45) in that region, they get bullied (26:47) and they get harassed (26:53) for trying to deal with non-lethal methods. (26:56) So that whole social aspect (26:58) that Clara was talking about, (26:59) these ranches are trying to do the non-lethal route (27:04) and they have to stay anonymous for even trying (27:07) because they get such backlash.

(27:10) I've not heard that before. (27:11) That's very interesting to know that they're getting hit.(27:14) That makes perfect sense.

(27:16) Yeah, it's an interesting dynamic. (27:19) We're kind of down to the wire here. (27:21) Let's once more repeat.

(27:24) Marie, go ahead and do that. (27:26) Repeat the different sources people can contact.(27:29) People can go to teamwolf.org (27:32) or endangered.org to get to calls of action.

(27:38) They can go to Clara's site, (27:39) which is Grand Canyon Wolf Recovery Project. (27:42) They all have easy links. (27:44) If anybody is interested in supporting my club, (27:47) I work for Yonker High School (27:50) at Buckeye Union High School District in Buckeye, Arizona.

(27:54) And as you can see from my walls in the back, (27:56) I'm sitting in my classroom. (27:58) Hands for Paws is a club that I created (28:00) that the kids can join. (28:03) And we learn how to advocate for animals (28:06) and we go into different rescues and shelters (28:08) and we volunteer our time.

(28:10) We raise money. (28:11) We supported Soldiers Best Friend. (28:12) We bought Kevlar vests for our canine unit.

(28:15) We donate to Eagle Tail Wolf Sanctuary (28:17) out in Tonopah, Arizona. (28:19) We've donated to zoos (28:21) and all kinds of different organizations. (28:23) We've raised tens of thousands of dollars.

(28:25) You can Google us. (28:26) It's Hands for Paws. (28:27) Is there anything you want to share with us before we end? (28:33) Yeah, so we also work a lot in schools (28:35) in the local community and actually across Arizona.

(28:39) So if you are a young person (28:41) and you want to get involved (28:42) and you want to learn more, (28:43) we have our pup naming contest. (28:45) So all of our wolves, they deserve to have names. (28:48) They have rich emotional lives.

(28:50) They're individuals. (28:51) So why would they not have a name? (28:53) And we ask students to sign up (28:55) and they can name the wolves (28:56) that we have out there on the landscape. (28:58) If you're a high school student, (29:00) you're in that 17 to 21 age bracket.

(29:02) You're at college (29:03) and you want to create a social action campaign for wolves,(29:06) you can join us on the Lobo Youth Summit. (29:10) And that website is loboyouthsummit.org. (29:13) And we believe in the work of our students (29:15) and our young people, (29:17) especially those wanting to get into conservation careers, (29:19) whether you're an artist or you're an activist, (29:22) you're a writer, you're a poet, you're a biologist. (29:24) There's lots of different campaigns that you can create.

(29:27) And because we believe in you, (29:29) we have got funding to give you a $500 micro grant(29:33) for you to turn your campaign idea into reality. (29:37) So we're going into our third year now (29:39) of the Lobo Youth Summit, (29:40) which will be in November, 2026. (29:44) So if you want to get involved, (29:45) just come up with a project idea, submit that (29:47) and tell us about what you're going to do for our wolves.

(29:51) And if you're anywhere that you are in your career, (29:54) if you're retired, you can volunteer. (29:56) All of our student volunteers, they lead the program. (30:00) So we're all about helping develop these leadership skills (30:04) to help change how we think about wolves (30:07) across our communities.

(30:10) Awesome. And Marie, I want to especially thank you (30:13) for bringing Claire on and introducing us to Claire. (30:18) And we're going to definitely follow up with both of you.

(30:21) Is there any last words you want to add, Marie? (30:24) No, I just want to thank you both for being here. (30:25) I know that you're both very busy. (30:27) I know Claire always has her hands full (30:29) with a ton of different projects to save our wildlife.

(30:32) So I want to thank her for being here. (30:34) Lindsay, I want to thank you (30:35) for helping us get our message out. (30:36) So thank you both.

(30:38) And thank you both for being on Action Hour Podcast. (30:42) Guys, we'll see you next time. (30:44) Be sure to tune in to untamedtv.com.