UnchainedTV: Black Vegan Leaders Celebrate Black History Month

0:00 Now, here's your host, Jane Velez Mitchell. Oh, welcome. Unchained TV, your free non-profit vegan streaming television network has been celebrating Black History Month with a category devoted to videos about the many Black movers and shakers in the vegan movement. Frankly, there are too many to mention, but suffice it to say that according to numerous reports and surveys, African Americans are going vegan at a higher rate than any other demographic group in the United States of America. And so today we are speaking with four leading Black voices in the vegan movement.

0:41 So much exciting stuff happening. We're going to bring it to you and tell you what has been achieved and where this movement is going next. The intersection of Black Lives Matter and the skyrocketing vegan and yes, animal rights movement. There you got Pinky Cole, one of the leading stars, but we've got a lot of stars here today as well. And I am so honoured and thrilled to have them. We're talking eat plants. All right. Let's just start with maybe the person geographically closest to me, Gwena Hunter. You are such a mover and shaker.

1:24 Vegans for Black Lives Matter. And then the Vegans of Los Angeles Food Bank, the first vegan food bank in LA. How does that intersect with Black Lives Matter and Black History Month? Well, as far as Black History Month is concerned, so the food bank is the first brick and mortar vegan food bank ever in Los Angeles. And I also believe we've been doing a lot of research. I haven't found the evidence that this is not true, but we believe that I'm the first Black woman to lead a brick and mortar vegan food bank in the country. I know that there's other outreach programmes, but as far as an actual certified vegan food bank, it appears that I may be the first one, hopefully definitely not the last.

2:13 So that's how it intersects with Black history. As far as everything else is concerned, I will say that I started this out really doing a lot of the work with Black Lives Matter, Black Women Farmers of LA, a lot of Black different organisations. And the work has just expanded. And for me, it's about food being an entitlement, nutritious food as a birthright for all human beings. So it's part of Black history, but it's also part of planetary history as well. And so just trying to change the narrative about free food and our entitlement to it as well.

2:53 Well, I want to show people who don't know exactly what goes into it. It is super hard work. Check this out. When I first started the food bank and people were coming to volunteer, I was very meticulous in telling people, come with a heart ready to serve. You're spreading love. And that's exactly what this is about. And we need to start taking care of one another. Hi, my name is Gwenna Hunter. We are here at Hope On Union, also part-time vegans of LA food bank. And this location used to be a butcher shop. Every third Thursday, we serve approximately 300 people. And of those 300 people, the average amount of people in their family is between 4 .5 and 5 people.

3:36 So we do this based on first respect and also love and compassion. We give them the choice of what it is that they want and how much that they want. Some food outreach programmes or food banks just give people, everyone has to take whatever is there. But we let people have their dignity and make the choice. The impact that I hope that the food bank has in the community is that people are influenced to eat more plant-based. So that people will experiment with the different food options that we give them, the vegan shrimp, the vegan meats, and create some delicious meals and decrease their intake of animals, if not eliminate.

4:19 Congratulations, Boyd. Just amazing work. And the woman clapping there, Najah Wright-Brown, is pretty much approaching the same issue, but from a different perspective. So Najah Wright-Brown, will you tell us please about Land of Kush? We've got a little video of it. Why you describe? Land of Kush is celebrating 13 years. We are a multi-award winning vegan soul bistro, a fast casual establishment. It's owned by myself and my husband, Gregory Brown. We hire from within the community. They learn how to run a business at the same time.

5:04 We are, I believe, we're the second Black vegan restaurant to open in Baltimore in 2011. So we managed to survive COVID while we've watched a lot of friends, unfortunately, have to shut down. So it is a grind every day, but Black history is every day. So every day we're open, we're making history. Why do you think you survived? Because there is a lot of focus now on vegan restaurants closing. I think we're in a consolidation. And personally, I think one of the reasons is that so many non-vegan restaurants are offering a lot of vegan options, but what was your magic key to surviving the pandemic?

5:49 You have to stay relevant. We're constantly marketing. We're also involved with events. So we co-created Vegan Soul Fest along with Brenda Sanders. That's an event. We co-created Maryland Vegan Restaurant Month. That's an event. I'm constantly talking about all the things that I do along with Black Veg Society. That's why we have Naja Speaks. I'm helping people to find their vegan soul through food, people, events, and culture. So I believe just staying relevant, staying in the face of people, organisations, schools, businesses, everyone, and just meeting them where they are and letting them know that they have access to a place to get good vegan soul food.

6:35 I think you're absolutely right. Some of the most successful vegan restaurants I see are constantly having events. They're constantly marketing themselves in this world where we went from, you know, 28 years ago when I went vegan, there was like two restaurants and they were always empty. And now it's like hundreds and hundreds of them. So it is more competitive even within the vegan space. So I just want to go to our next fabulous person. They're also fabulous that I'm honoured to have them with us. Brenda Sanders, you are the founder and co -executive director of Afro Vegan Society.

7:15 You do so many exciting things. Let's just take a look at one of the many, many videos that you have. And you're really involved in educating people in a very sort of meticulous, detailed way. Afro Vegan Society is helping disempowered communities take back control of their health and environments through vegan living. Hello, everybody. Thank you so much for tuning in to the Dump Dairy Workshops. Today, I am so, so happy to have Dr. Ruby Lathan. If you feel like you are just don't know how you would ever give up cheese or how you would ever just live without dairy in your diet, there is hope.

7:57 I felt the exact same way. Now you couldn't pay me to eat dairy. Big reason that we want to keep dairy off the plate is because most of us are lactose intolerant, period. Most people of colour are lactose intolerant. So at least 75% of the population in the world is lactose intolerant and probably higher than that. That is such an important fact, Brenda Sanders. Why is it that we have to fight so hard to get that essential fact out? Industry. The dairy industry has so much money and so much power. And I've been really happy to see that some of that power is starting to slip away because of education.

8:43 And that's why it's so important for me and for my organisation, Afro Vegan Society, to constantly be educating people about these facts, about these truths, because in many different neighbourhoods and communities, this information just isn't available. And that's why Afro Vegan Society exists. You're all working on the same issue from different angles. Jasmine Leyva, you've done an extraordinary film, The Invisible Vegan, which we're proud to say is streaming on Unchained TV. And you're approaching it from a cinematic perspective and also telling your personal story. Let's listen to just a small clip.

9:25 I urge all of you to watch the actual film as it streams on Unchained TV. But let's watch a short clip and then get your sense of where we are. I grew up in D.C. eating the standard American diet, meat, dairy, fruit, veggies, bread. And I remember my grandma would make me these big breakfasts with like sausage, eggs, and fluffy butter biscuits. You know, I lived for them. And at the time, I never questioned what I ate. If it tasted good, I ate it and got seconds. So what are you making? I'm making some turkey legs and turkey wings, spaghetti, and a salad. My entire family eats meat. So that's what I knew, and that's all I knew.

10:08 By the time I became a teenager, I had heard of vegetarianism, but I had no idea what a vegan was. Then when I was 20, I moved to Los Angeles, and that's where I learned what a vegan was. I was like, you know, that's that white people stuff. But then I worked on a lifestyle series where we were interviewing Bobbette Davis, the owner of this vegan restaurant called Stuff I Eat. She was 65 at the time, and her body trumped mine. She was the first Black female vegan that I ever met.

10:53 She unknowingly inspired me to lead up on plant-based diets, and the more I read, the more I became inspired to go vegan. Wow, Jasmine, what a great story. And she also inspires me. Chef Bobbette is unbelievably fit. So we've gotten all these different perspectives. Where are we in terms of the African -American community and veganism? Oh, so I think now we're in a place where we're getting the visibility that we should have gotten a long time ago, because for a long time, you know, no one wanted to bring culture and race and heritage into the conversation. So now we're finally able to bring it in the conversation, and we're finally able to pay respect and reverence for the people who actually poured into these movements.

11:43 And I'm talking even the green movements. When we say, oh, this is green and sustainability and health, I want to cut in like, oh, when you say green and sustainability, do you mean indigenous knowledge? Is that what you mean? And so now for Black History Month, I'm just thankful that we get to claim the knowledge that we brought to the table. Well, this is a hot subject. We've got callers lined up. I wanted to set up all of our guests before we go to the callers, but let's hear from Lindsay and Tarzana, your question or thought for our panel on Black History Month and veganism. Yes, I just wanted to comment that I am blown away by these women and the accomplishments that they all have made and continue to make.

12:31 And I think it's so important, the message that they're putting out there for everyone. And I'm so proud to have the opportunity to know them and to also learn from them. There's so much to learn. I can't wait to watch the movie you were just talking about that sounds so great, The Invisible Vegan. And I have one quick question for Nadja. How did you come up with the name Land of Kush? Please explain. Thank you. Absolutely. The Land of Kush is a birth, is the brainchild of my husband, Gregory Brown, who studies the African diaspora. I myself, I'm Afro-Latina, but he studies the African diaspora and he wanted to come up with a name that kind of started conversation.

13:23 Kush is an ancient African civilisation in Africa along the Nile River. When people think of Kush, you know what they think of, but it opens a dialogue to teach people that Blacks weren't always slaves. We were powerful rulers and we still are powerful rulers. So you could do your research by finding out the Land of Kush in Ethiopia. Wow. Okay. We've got another caller, Lauren in Indiana. Your question or thought for our team of African-American vegan leaders, Black vegan leaders. Oh, louder. Next for, is this all right?

14:04 Yep. What's next for your work around food insecurity, particularly around people of colour? And that was addressed to who? Gwena. Got it. Gwena, go for it. So what's next? Actually, what I'm actually doing now is we're now implementing more educational opportunities. We're working with USC, University of Southern California, where we're going to be doing live cooking classes. There's going to be some other free food programmes. We're going to have panels and speakers at libraries and at churches and different events like that.

14:45 So that's what's happening for the rest of the year. And I like to say what I'm, the work I'm doing is, I know we use the word food insecurity, but I like to say I'm liking to make people food secure. So working on making everyone food secure, and then just, again, changing the narrative and the stigma around free food, food entitlement and food banks in general. I like that. It's a positive description of it as opposed to insecurity. We're just talking about food security, which let's face it, like air and water, there's three things we can't live without air, water, and food. All right. Nilofar in Dallas, Texas, your question or thought.

15:28 Hi, what's an inspiring panel of movers and shakers? Question is for Jasmine Leyva. The Invisible Regan is an excellent documentary addressing both health and justice, health and social justice issues. Is there room to expand on the message to explicitly use language, acknowledging the tyranny of the human animal versus non-human animal, and thus inspiring advocacy based on ethics? What this does is it would bring ethics to the forefront of the intersectionality of social justice issues, and the importance of addressing the mind-numbing violence against animals.

16:15 Thanks. Wow. Okay, that's a hot potato. Are you ready for that one, Jasmine? Hot potato caught. When I made my film, I was very strategic about how I wanted to present my vegan messaging. I did make my message toward the Black community, just because I felt like at the time that community was left out of the vegan conversation. One of the nuances is, unfortunately, at the time, the animal rights movement came off as somewhat of an entitled movement, and Black people had a lot of conflict with that.

16:59 When I organised my film, it's broken down into chapters. I think animal rights was around chapter seven, chapter eight, because I had to gear it towards what my audience cared about, and I had to be very careful not to trigger my audience, because a lot of Black people felt like we are treated... All of the things that we talk about that these animals are going through, we're going through this. We're being beaten. We're being mistreated. We're being killed. As long as that is happening to my body, it's going to be a hard thing to ask them to prioritise what's going on with a chicken or cow, even though some might argue it's equally horrific.

17:45 But I did have to be very strategic about how I put that information in my film, but it is in there. You're raising a very important point in terms of comparing any animal suffering to any human group, whether it's, for example, women. A lot of people feel insulted. We've so demonised animals that to compare a human in any way, shape, or form to an animal is perceived as an insult. Why should it be? These are innocent creatures who are totally innocent. Why is any comparison somehow insulting? I've come up against that too.

18:26 It's a tricky one, but we have to meet people where they are. What I've always said is, if there's an explanation that offends people, find another way to explain it. That's how I've dealt with it. All right. We've got still other callers. This is exciting. An avalanche of callers. Michelle in Los Angeles. Hi. Can you hear me? Yep. Oh, great. Thank you so much. All of you women are so amazing and inspiring as well. I'm so glad you're bringing awareness to the whole point that veganism is not just a white thing. How do we influence or educate our family members and friends without offending them, but also enabling them to enjoy the goodness of being vegan?

19:21 I want to throw that to Brenda Sanders. I mean, I think this is such an important point. Indeed, you could make an argument that meat -eating is commerce colonialism. Cows and pigs are non-indigenous to the United States. The first cow came over on Columbus's voyage, and the first pig came over in approximately the mid-16th century on a boat of a Spanish Conquistador. Whereas what was indigenous was maize, grain, and potatoes, and all sorts of veggies. And yet it's often perceived that veganism is a quote-unquote white thing.

20:02 I want you to explain where you're at with all that and how do we grapple with that? Yeah, so a big part of the education that we do is giving a history of culture and tradition. And that's a really, really important thing because we have been so programmed to believe that this is food, this should be accepted as food, it's always been food. When in fact, a lot of the foods that we're eating, like you were saying, are very recent additions to our diets. And especially when you're working within particular communities, if you're working within the indigenous American community, then of course you would educate about colonialism and how those animals became food.

20:53 Within the Black community, one of the things that surprise people all the time is that the milk of an animal is not natural for us to consume, for various different reasons. It's for infants and it is species-specific. And so once these kinds of things start being talked about, people are like, wow, I did not ever even think about that. And it's because of the programming, it's because of the advertisement, it's because these things are literally and figuratively being shoved down our throats. And so that's the biggest thing, just talking about it and educating people. When Dr. Silas Rao, who is an Indian -born systems engineer and founder of Climate Healers described the marketing of fast food as commerce colonialism, I thought, wow, that is really, really powerful, a powerful way to describe it.

21:52 And it could appeal to people in terms of making it politically incorrect to consume it. We've got one more caller and then we're going to get deep into that issue. Paige in Los Angeles, your question or thought for our panel. Yes, thank you very much. I want to ask each one of them, each one of you, how can we, the listener, and we, the supporters, specifically support each one of you? Thank you. Wow, great question. All right, why don't we start? We'll start with Gwena. You're in Los Angeles, so is Paige. And I know Paige supports you and many other organisations. Go ahead. Yeah, we always could use money.

22:34 That is very, very important. It cost me over almost $6,000 a month to run the food bank. It's not cheap. So go to VegansLA.com, so if you scroll, you'll see the donate button. Please donate because, you know, it's not free to be on this planet. Also, if you want to, you know, volunteer, we could always use volunteers on the Wednesday that we are open, which is usually the third, between the second and third week of the month. Just check in with me and I'll let you know which week it is. And we can always use people to come in and help pack and help sort. There's always other volunteer opportunities need people to help with certain administrative things, send out letters, emails.

23:21 So if you have any skills, you know, please feel free to reach out. All right, and let's hit the next one because she asked this of everybody. So Brenda, how can people help your organisation Afro Vegan Society? Yes, so we also have a donate button on our website afrovegansociety.org. And, you know, folks can go over there and donate. And we are always looking for to expand community. And so we have lots of folks who are just on our email list on our volunteer list, who may have certain skills that could really, really help us out. So if you head over to afrovegansociety.org, hit that donate button and also join our email list on with the newsletter, and that would be so much help.

24:10 All right, Naja. Yes, get money donate at blackvegsociety.org, blackvegsociety .org. If you are in the Baltimore area, please come see us at Land of Kush. You can go to landofkush.com for more info there. And if you can't do any of that, follow me and Naja Speaks, go to najaspeaks .com. Tune in, I contribute for Unchained TV. And yeah, let me help you find your vegan soul or your friend's vegan soul through food, people, events and culture. Yes. And Naja is an incredible contributor to Unchained TV. In fact, we're figuring out a way to give her her own show on the streaming network.

24:53 That's in progress. So support her. And you can see her on streaming on Unchained TV on a regular basis. Jasmine. So one thing, if I'm being honest, like right now, I'm in a place where I kind of have everything I want. I have everything I need. So if you wanted to know how to support me, just keep supporting the cause. Do exactly what you're doing right now. Educating yourself, spreading the information that you've learned. And Paige is a fantastic human being. You've had me on your show. You've welcomed me. You know, just keep being that light in the world. So it supports the world beyond me.

25:33 Fabulous. Well, donate and support and stay active. We've got one more caller, man. They're coming in today. Sarah in Los Angeles, your question or thought for our Celebrate Black History Month with Vegan Leaders show. Hi, I was wondering if you guys have any events coming up for Earth Day, if you guys are going to be collaborating with other organisations. And I just wanted to see what your future in your different groups in your organisations, what your future projects are for this year. Thank you. Oh, good question. Okay. Well, why don't we start with Najah? You have so many groups. Honestly, I was like, well, how do I, what's my lower third for Najah?

26:16 Because it would be the world's longest lower third. Land of Kush, it's what you tell us, what are you doing? Well, next month is Maryland Vegan Restaurant Month. So if you're in Maryland, you definitely want to check out mdveganeats.com. We have a launch party happening next week at Lord Baltimore Hotel. So we're always evolving on that project. We just announced coming soon is the first ever Children's VegFest in Baltimore. We're partnering with Baltimore Recreation and Parks. So if you're again in the Maryland area and the Baltimore area, please, this is for everyone, just not Baltimore. This is the first Children's VegFest. We'd love people to come out, support, bring your children.

26:58 So just think Vegan SoulFest, but for the children. And then again, if you see the announcement for Vegan SoulFest, you can come and support that as well. Myself and Brenda put that on. Definitely a great, great, great time. So you want to definitely want to be there at that event. But again, if you follow me at Nadja Speaks, you'll find out all about that. I'll be talking about that tomorrow on my show as well. Nadja Speaks.com. Subscribe, subscribe, like, share, all of that. All right. I want to get into the weeds here. I think it's absolutely extraordinary that African Americans are going vegan at a higher rate than the rest of the population.

27:38 And I want to do a round robin on why that is, because as far as I can see, that's a great fact. That's a great development. My personal belief is that the meat, dairy, and pharmaceutical industries, which I consider one and the same, you know, the three heads of one big problem, it's a house of cards. And if you pulled out one key demographic, like African Americans, that would be one key demographic that you could pull out. I think it would collapse. So do you agree with me on that? And let's do a round robin on why this is happening and how we can actually make it grow even further.

28:21 Who wants to kick it off? Jasmine, you're smiling. So take it away. So, you know, one thing I have to say, I feel like African Americans leading the charge. One, we come from a very creative people, not to take anything from any other race, they're all creative. But, you know, we have our own vibe. And I think when veganism was presented, it's just like, this is just yet another opportunity for us to unleash our culinary creativity and create something that can sustain our families. And I think that's especially important because a lot of us, we've grown up, you know, under the umbrella of soul food and foods that weren't that healthy.

29:04 And seeing members of our family go into, you know, have diabetes, high cholesterol, have all of these things and need to take all of these pills. And that became, you know, what we projected our fate to be, because it's what we saw. We didn't see all the juiceries and the health food and know that you can do chia seeds and flax seeds and avoid all of these things. So I think for us, it's a chance for us to exercise our creativity. And it's also a chance for us to, we're learning that, oh, this is how I avoid getting my leg cut off. So we also have that vision of what it looks like if you go down the wrong path, which I think helps propel us down a healthier one.

29:47 Brenda Sanders, we've got yet another caller, but I really want to tackle this point is the pandemic showed that African Americans were suffering the worst effects of the pandemic because of underlying health issues. Is that a big trigger for people to wake up and say, wow, in fact, there's a film called They're Trying to Kill Us, which is an incredible film about how the African American community is suffering disproportionately when it comes to health statistics and fast food is why. Yes, yes, absolutely. I was so honoured to be featured in the film They're Trying to Kill Us. And just if I could let people know right now, They're Trying to Kill Us is a very powerful film that features John Lewis, the badass vegan, and it's streaming free right now, only for the month of February, Black History Month.

30:42 And you can watch it for free, again, for free. This is really important. Families, churches, whoever need to log in and get into this film, they'retryingtokillus.com. And yes, absolutely, a lot of those themes are explored in the film. A lot of those things are being explored by vegan activists, Black vegan activists. And it's absolutely a huge reason why all this attention is being put on plant-based eating and vegan living is our circumstances. The fact that we are leading in most of the diet related illnesses right now, and people want to change.

31:24 We want to do something different. I think that's a large part of the reason why you've seen this shift in our culture. I mean, but two-thirds of Americans are overweight or obese. And we've got a crisis in this country. Honestly, I was in the Dallas, I went to speak at the best plant-based conference ever. And I was sitting in the Dallas, Fort Worth airport. And I was surrounded by people who had been wheeled up, and they were morbidly obese, and they were not old. So they were younger people. And then I looked across and I see two parents feeding nuggets to a kid, stuffing. And I thought, well, if you were going to give a cigarette to a kid, people would call child services.

32:09 But even though processed meat is officially cancer -causing, according to the World Health Organisation, people are shoving this down their kids' throats. The US government is subsidising dairy and trying to force kids to drink dairy in when the global majority and even the National Institutes of Health itself says 67% at least of all people, this is on the NIH website, are dairy intolerant, are lactose intolerant. It's a crazy, crazy mixed up world. And yet we haven't hit the tipping point where, let's say, since this is Black History Month, and we're talking about that particular demographic, where it's become politically incorrect for, let's say, the Black community to buy fast food.

33:00 It's still happening across the board, Naja. Yes. So the question on why we're on the rise, one, I'm going to shout out Tracy McWhorter's African American Vegan Start a Guide. This is nothing new. If anyone remembers Dick Gregory, Dick Gregory was also an animal rights activist. So if you go to page 32, go to Afro, African American Vegan Start a Guide, 32, it'll tell you the history. 1915, it was a Vegetarian Food Congress conference. This is nothing new to us. It's just we weren't being paid attention to. So the reason why it's growing now, again, we've talked about the health disparities, the type 2 diabetes, and the heart disease.

33:49 There's seven major reasons that I've seen in this article, the GRIO, and I just posted a link there. I don't know if we can share that. I'm sure. We'll have listed this, and I have talked about this on my show. Saving the animals, saving the environment. People are becoming aware due to the works of people like Brenda and Jasmine and Gwena and myself, just pushing the word out there. Generation after generation, culture is culture. You're being taught one way, and you have to unlearn that. So this is the reason why that's happening. And it's not a new fad. Again, it says that in the seven reasons. This is not a new fad for Black people.

34:29 Globally, we have been aware of this. But I just want to get back to it again, and I want to ask Gwena Hunter, I think that, and correct me if I'm wrong, that there has been, at least until recently when all these stories started coming out about African Americans switching to veganism at a higher rate than the general population, that there had been this sort of perception as veganism as kind of some effete, hipster, mostly white thing, fad, that was practised in Brooklyn and Venice, California, and that it wasn't for African Americans. I mean, has that been shattered, hopefully?

35:12 And what are your thoughts on that? Again, I ask because I truly feel that if this demographic were to shun en masse fast food, it would trigger a collapse of modern day industrialised animal agriculture that is killing everybody, but disproportionately killing African Americans. Can I just piggyback on what I just said for a minute? Because you're clearing something up for me in my head. Veganism was birthed out of vegetarianism. Okay, can we agree on that? It was birthed out of that. And sometimes, you know, and I've heard this in the communities, that this veganism was formed to create a division.

35:55 Now, I don't know how true that is or not. I mean, everything is about division. But when you look at it, some of the vegans, you know, it could feel like colonialism or demanding, or you have to do this. Black people don't want to be told what to do. We have to go in our communities and tell and teach with our face and how we do it, not how y'all are doing it. It's how we're doing it, and we're going to do it our way. And you've got a group of people, and there's more people out there that are doing it their way. It's not or, it's and. We're going to do this and. Okay, it's not just black, white, grey. People have to have their own journey to get to where they need to be to become vegan, or plant-based, or wherever it is that they're going.

36:39 So we're still in the minority here. You know, I think we're still under 10 % of the population in the United States. So, you know, not even talking globally. So we shouldn't be demanding or pointing fingers. We should be compassionate and working with people and trying to love. And that could be the turnoff to some of the Black Americans. I guess everyone else can speak to that. Yes, I, Gwena, take it. She's a perfect segue. To answer your question in its entirety, that thing that for me is being shattered. But there's still a lot of work to be done because it isn't the most important conversation on everybody's mind. That's Black, that's African American, that's having health issues.

37:21 So there's still a lot of work to be done. One of the two things that I've noticed, one, the way, in my perspective, the way African Americans just actively engage, and the way we talk to each other, and the mercy and grace, and the education, it's not as harsh. In the white community, you know, what I've seen in the past, not really at this moment, but in the past, it can be extremely judgemental. It can be punishing if you make a mistake and you go in a group and you say, hey, what's wrong with honey? And 500 people make a comment and it impacts a person.

38:03 So to me, we are more, for the most part, we are, there are exceptions obviously, but we are more gentle and we are more compassionate with one another. You know, I said, when I first got into the movement, I didn't really know any Black vegans except for the ones that I would see online or at conferences. And then my first thing, in situations where I was a person, you know, I could share, you know, certain feelings or certain things and it would just be, it wouldn't be a big deal. But if I had a certain conversation in the white community, it would be like, oh, you can't do this. And it would just be a lot more cool, a little bit more harsh.

38:46 And so for me, I feel like more love and acceptance and room to make mistakes, get up, start over, forget about it, do it again. And that's also one reason. I go on Instagram, I see all these beautiful Black people making all this amazing food and it's fun and it's beautiful and we're having a great time. We can't forget that. Yes, it's horrible. Animals are being killed right this moment. It's a horror movie, but we can't live in that all the time. To me, that kind of starts to develop a mental illness when you're constantly looking at the darkness of a situation. You got to get up, you know, nothing wrong with being in the dark.

39:28 I embrace my dark side all the time, but you got to get up and get back into that light. You got to have a good time. You got to make it fun. Play with all the different elements of this movement. Play with the cooking, play with the activism, go to the protests, go do education, like, you know, get involved in all of it. But sometimes I see on the other side, it just gets a little bit too harsh and kind of mean and critical. And that's where it starts to turn people off. Well, what I'm hearing is that if we want to truly revolutionise the vegan movement within the Black community, already there's huge advancement. The Black community is ahead of the general population.

40:10 But what's required is to foster leadership within the Black community, as opposed to people who are not in that community saying, here's what you should be doing. And be compassionate. Is that what this is not about? Is this not about love? Is this not about equality? Is this, like, you got to be the things that you're talking about, and often people are not those things. They talk about it, but when that moment comes to actually embody it, they can't. Yeah, these are all incredible points. Naja and then Jack, let's hear from everybody, but you were shaking your head, Naja. No, that's right. You know, you can't, no one has to do anything.

40:51 And whoever's watching and looking, the Black person, African, they don't have to do anything, you know, but be in their skin. You're coming to educate on the reasons why they should be vegan and the benefits, and that's great. There's people that's starving out there. They're not going to bypass a piece of meat because you're talking about being vegan. Like, let's have some common sense here. We can only do what we can do to educate the masses and in hopes that they will make change, right? Yeah. Oh, yes, absolutely. I mean, I'm coming here from a perspective of, wow, this is an incredible development.

41:34 How can this phenomenon of African Americans essentially leading the vegan movement be accelerated even? I want to go to one quick thing, but I think you had something to say, Jasmine, then we'll jump over. Yeah, I guess kind of piggybacking off of what everyone said, like just the importance of humility. And then when you're thinking specifically about the Black American community, like really think about it. This is one of the first times in history that Black Americans have even had somewhat bit of control over what they put in their bodies.

42:16 For the longest time, if you're going historic, we were fed the scraps. And then it took a while for Black people to get entrepreneurial footing in this country. Yes, there were some people who were doing well, but I look at my grandmother. My grandmother was eating mayonnaise sandwiches. That's how she was getting by. She was giving her kids crackers for dinner. And so finally, I'm the first generation of Black Americans in my family where I can comfortably eat, me and my mom, whatever our heart desires. So just imagine what it's like to come to someone who just got that power and tell them, no, you know what, I want to take some of that power back and control what you eat. And then you also are in the body of the type of people that took that right from us in the first place.

43:02 You have to think heavily about that. So it's not saying that you shouldn't tell someone to go vegan or you shouldn't educate them, but you should take the time to learn the nuances of any community that you want to educate. Wow, this is powerful. I'm just thrilled that we're having such a deep conversation and not just staying on the surface. I was trying to think of on our category where we have many of the Black vegan leaders and videos about them, and there are many more, the stadium's full, if we would include every single one, which we would love to. But I was like, who epitomises this phenomenon? This was my vote.

43:43 You can have your own votes, but I'm going for Pinky Cole. Let's watch. She's a 30-something powerhouse who founded the slutty vegan restaurant chain, and Pinky Cole is at it again. Drawing lines around the block and then some for her superb vegan menu items with risque titles like menage a trois and sloppy toffee. Why the outrageous name? Because we're told, sex sells. Not content with a rapidly expanding vegan empire of restaurants and food trucks, Pinky Cole is out with a book called Eat Plants, Bitch.

44:24 I grew up in a very humble household. My father served 22 years in prison, and I watched my mother work multiple jobs every single day. My mom used to come home tired. She worked payroll services, she worked at McDonald's, she was a musician, she worked at the bank, and like, she was literally and figuratively Jamaican. And I realised that I never wanted to work that hard because my mother didn't get to fully walk in her purse at that time. So while my father was in prison, I literally said, you know what, I gotta make it, because I don't want to grow up like this. I don't want to have to work so hard for the rest of my life that I can't afford the level of freedom that I want, and I want to be able to take care of my mom.

45:12 And that's exactly what I did. So I grinded for a very, very long time. And here we are. Literally, I'm still the girl in the grown woman body who now has a hundred million dollar brand. A hundred million dollar brand. Thanks to Paige Parsons Roach for supplying that video, by the way. She went to the event. Brenda Sanders, wow. And you have to look at one of the other more successful entrepreneurs in terms of vegan restaurant chains is Kevin Hart, the African American radio star and TV star.

45:54 Yeah, I mean, folks are just coming out of the woodwork. People understand where the future is headed. Like, there's just no denying it now, and especially within the Black community. And I think because such a strong foundation is being built at the community level. And if it wasn't for that work, if it wasn't for, you know, Najee and me struggling and sweating and, you know, figuring out how to put on Vegan Soul Fest that, you know, we exceeded 14,000 people, you know, in 2023 as a veg fest, you know, a music and food festival. And it's just a lot of work. It's an awful lot of work on the ground, you know, just shifting culture.

46:36 And I think that that's what you are talking about, you know, shifting the culture away from what it was, you know, what we sometimes call slave food, and into a different light, into a different direction. That's fun. That's exciting. That's compassionate, like Jenna was saying. And that is that it sticks, you know, it's not just some passing fad that was cute and fun, but it actually is being built from the ground up. And so that is structural change. Everybody, in my opinion, who eats animal products is supporting their own oppression, supporting climate change, accelerating climate change.

47:21 There was a study in the New York Times that was from Oxford University, just came out recently, no shock that no other media picked it up, even though they love to show what I call catastrophe porn all day, floods, fires, people drowning, cars being overturned, houses floating into the ocean. But here was a solution in the form of a report from a study. Oxford University said heavy meat eaters, which is most Americans, can reduce their greenhouse gas emissions footprint by 75% by switching to a plant-based diet. If you think about that for one second, that means if everybody switched to a plant -based diet, we could collectively reduce our greenhouse gas emissions footprints by 75%, which would mean that we could return the temperatures back to where they were a couple of hundred years ago before the start of the industrial revolution.

48:20 It's the solution right there staring us in the face. And yet there is this intense resistance by the media, which is advertiser-based and controlled by the meat, dairy and pharmaceutical industry. And there's also societal and cultural resistance with people always citing their own background. I don't care what your heritage is. I'm talking black, white, any. Oh, I could never go vegan because I'm fill in the blank. Okay. I'm Puerto Rican and Irish. I've heard I could never go vegan because I'm Puerto Rican. I could never go vegan because I'm Irish. It's all nonsense. It's brainwashing. So how do we break through that?

49:03 I'd love to do a round robin because if we could get people to stop supporting their own oppression, that would be game over. Can I say something? Well, some people were thinking about how they're going to stay alive tomorrow depending on where they live and how they're living. So that's the priority on their brain. But to talk about food and let's say the Latino market, Black, Greek and vegan. I went up there over the weekend. I was there Monday. She's doing the damn thing. First Afrobaricua to bring the Latin vegan gang to like, I don't know. I just see she's going to do wonders.

49:43 So how do we bridge the gap between us and the Latin community? People are doing their thing to bridge that gap. And we just got to keep on coming up with these innovative ways and reaching the people. So it's going to happen one idea at a time. And like I said, it's not or, it's and. We need to do this and, and that, and, and that. Everybody can contribute in some way to reach the people. Uh, I, I totally hear what you're saying. I guess my sense of panic and, um, impatience is that I personally feel, and it's not just me. I mean, Sir David Attenborough did a incredible documentary about how there's only nine boundaries and we're breaking through six of them.

50:30 And I just read an article yesterday that, uh, the global oceans, if there's a collapse, uh, it could create like cataclysmic climate changes immediately. I, I looked in the article, I was like, well, when could this happen? It said anytime between 2025 and 2050, I'm like 2025, that's two years from now. So, uh, I mean, I feel like, yes, we have to, you know, as it's the same thing that people say, it reminds me of that film. Don't look up where they're yelling on the, on the morning show, Hey, a meteor is coming. And the host is saying, calm down. You're so strident. And I don't know what, what, if we could do a round Robin on that, how do we balance the urgency of the situation with the need for people to, to have information, um, a process information in a certain way?

51:23 Well, one thing I would say is, um, as far as like perspective, when you're looking at, um, you know, cause everyone wants to blame someone, um, they want to have a villain. So I think sometimes, um, vegans can look at the non-vegans like, okay, these are the villains because they're contributing to this. And I would say maybe go further. Um, cause if I was pointing at a villain, I would say a lot of these people who are feeding their children, this stuff they're doing. So, because this is what their doctor said to feed their children. This is what, um, advertising companies are promoting. This is what's, um, in the grocery stores that they can afford. So I would place blame on those higher powers, um, when I'm delivering, um, my message.

52:11 And I think that's one of the ways, uh, we can, you know, start to see change, make sure we point at the right people. I'm devastated that we're almost out of time. So I want to get Gwena Hunter, your thoughts on this. Um, well, we've used this word and you used the word, uh, brainwashing. Um, Brenda used the word first, I heard her use the word programme, which is a really, um, powerful word that I like to use because that is what is happening. We, all of us have some programme that we're running on something. Nobody is 100% awakened for everything. We're all running some type of programme, running some type of story. And just like what Jasmine said, it's like, we, we need a villain, especially in this movement.

52:54 We definitely, you know, the meat eaters are ruining this. They're doing that, but it's no different than when you were eating meat and the programme, you didn't wake up from your programme. What woke you up? Use that because there's all types of different ways that people wake up. I can talk to a spiritual community when my eyes closed. If you want to have me talking about science or some other stuff, that's not my forte. Everyone wakes up in the way that they are programmed or we're all programmed in certain types of ways. So like Jasmine said, I think it's very important that we stop making enemies. You need to stop that. And the vegan community is huge for that. We love to, you're wrong and you're this.

53:36 And it's like, you know what? Yes. Veganism is a huge awakening, but we also need to clean up our own ish as well. The stuff that we have going on inside. And if we do that, there'll be an awakening on levels that are unprecedented, but I won't get into all of that right now because that's my jam. I'm going to burn my vegan police t -shirts. Can I add to the conversation? Yes. Because climate change is an emergency and I don't think that people have been treating it as such. I've seen people right now, you know, there are tornadoes and floods and mudslides and all these things with so much more frequency drought and like food prices are through the roof and people are like, what's going on?

54:27 Why do these foods cost so much? As somebody who is privy to the different elements of the food system, I'm like, no, it makes perfect sense when you have things like floods and droughts and things that directly impact the food system and the distribution system, because we have this huge industrial, just global food system that is absolutely ridiculous. All these different elements are just creating a really awful tornado of awfulness that is only going to get worse. And, you know, the Oxford study saying blatantly that, you know, changing this one thing in mass will change our entire situation.

55:12 That is the reason why I'm constantly pushing this information, this education about climate change, about the ways in which a plant-based food system would help to solve these problems that the animal-based food system has caused. And we really, it's past time. Like we have to be dealing with this stuff immediately, right now. You know, it's not something that we can just be like, oh, you know, that's in the future. Climate change will happen, you know, later. Like we're in the midst of it right now. And so I do feel that sense of urgency as well. Yes. And bringing in the political aspect, you know, talking about leadership with within the African-American community on the vegan issue.

55:57 Senator Cory Booker is a vegan and he is one of the leading voices inside the government, inside the legislative bodies that is speaking up for veganism. But it's a very, very scary thing to do because they have ways of shutting you down. And so that's another factor is educating the politicians. I mean, I recently went to a gathering and there was a politician there who was very up to date on a lot of issues, a lot of issues. But when somebody raised the issue of health and plant-based food, it was like, what are you talking about?

56:41 What, what, what, what, what, huh? We've got important issues here to talk about. Why are you talking about that? That's, that was the general vibe. And so, you know, it's really hard to get people to even acknowledge that this is the solution, not even acknowledge that it's a solution, acknowledge that this is an issue that needs to be discussed. Naja. It's about money. Come on now. No, we're not naive. It's a capitalist country globally. It's about the money because if we're in this dire state, all the government has to do is put out a mandate. They, we've seen it with the pandemic, right? It's that simple, but it really isn't because it's about the money.

57:25 Yes. So I just want to give everybody an opportunity to weigh in on this. Frankly, our Voice of America show has ended. But I said, we are having a really fascinating conversation here and I didn't want to cut it off because I feel like a lot of times when we do shows like this, just when things are getting to the nitty gritty and we're getting to something that is truly solutionary, it's like, well, time is up. So I just want to give everybody just another couple of minutes to dive into this because honestly, the future of our civilisation, our lives is at risk.

58:05 And I personally believe that the African American community in the United States, if it were to become, and you could say this about other demographics, let's say we're all women, let's say women who make 80 some percent of daily shopping decisions in society. And that's pretty much true across the world. If women decided, you know, as a demographic, it's politically incorrect to eat meat and consume dairy, that would do it. So how do we go from where we are here to where the ideal situation where people drive by a fast food joint and say, I can't go in there, I can't take that ride because I'm supporting my own oppression and essentially it's almost a form of self-enslavement.

59:01 Anybody? Yeah, I mean, we have to just, and I'm always going to say that education is key, you know, whatever event that I'm a part of, whatever programming, you know, that Afro Vegan Society does, whether virtual or in person, for me, a big part of it has to be about disseminating information and education. So panel discussions and people, you know, doing talks and things like that, because I feel like that's the way to reach the masses. We gotta go mainstream. You know, we can't just be in this echo chamber with other vegans, right? I mean, I love vegans, vegans are great, but I don't need to talk to vegans, you know, I need to talk to mainstream folks who don't have access to this information.

59:45 And so talking about the issues, educating about the issues, sharing the issues with family, friends, coworkers, you know, church members, whomever, it's just really, really important that this information gets disseminated widely and fairly quickly in order for us to see a change. Absolutely. Okay, Jasmine, your final, final thought on this. I think more alternatives need to be preached. If we are talking about, I guess, the mother that is taking her child to a fast food restaurant, like the first thing that comes to my mind is because I wasn't really eating that much fast food before I went vegan.

1:00:27 So the first thing that comes to my mind when I was young, I went to McDonald's, that was a time when I glorified my mom, she could do something very amazing for me because I liked, even though the food was crap, I loved it. And so she could feel great as a mother. So, you know, just even being conscious of like, okay, how, what kind of alternatives are we offering to that? What kind of alternatives are we offering to someone who is working two jobs, who has four children, who doesn't have the time to make this great plant-based meal with all the nutrients? Because yes, rice, beans, you know, a lot of these are very cheap and affordable, but they don't, you know, for a child, if you come, if you're in a home and you don't have a lot of money to be kind of constrained to that kind of simple diet might bring sadness in the house.

1:01:17 So really making sure that when we talk about the mother who is taking her kid to McDonald's, we also say, but here are all these other things that you can do, not only to just replace the food, but to give the child more nutrients. And so that mom can have the sentimental moment of giving her child a decent meal that they actually really enjoy. I hear you. And I also want to talk, we can't wrap up this conversation without talking about food deserts, because that's still a very real thing, Gwenna Hunter, and you deal with that with your LA Vegan Food Bank. Yeah, and just technically, the technical term regarding a food desert, I'm technically not in a food desert, because there is a supermarket that is about a mile and a half away, but we do operate in a lower income community where there is higher crime.

1:02:19 So to me, it's not just about just the food desert, that is one aspect of it. But it's also just about taking care of our community, being the government, not waiting for them to step in and to do things. We don't need their permission. We can do these things on our own. One of the things that I did want to mention that I like to do a lot to, you know, around the people that I'm with is normalise, change my language regarding animals. So, you know, referring, you know, like I recently lost my cat, and I really went through the depths of grief with that.

1:03:03 And for a while, I was nervous to like, let people know that I was still grieving, because people think and I've had people like, oh, this cat, like, just get another one, get over it. And it's like, no, that was a soul. That was my child. So normalising the language around your love and your compassion and the way you view animals and calling them mothers and fathers and sisters and brothers, because, you know, you got to get in the heart. That's how you stay. It's to me, it's all about the moral compassion. So yeah, I just wanted to add that is, you know, normalising our feelings and our language regarding animals.

1:03:45 Absolutely. That's such a powerful thought. So, Jasmine, your final, final thought, and then we'll go to Brenda, and then we'll wrap it up, because this has been a really, really powerful conversation. My final thought, one, Jane, I love the panel of women that you've chosen to have on the show today. And one of the reasons why I like it is because, you know, during Black History Month, there are a lot of, and I want to say this without taking anything away from anyone, there are a lot of, you know, more trendy vegans who, you know, they do something great, and then it blows up. And then all of a sudden, they become the faces of the plant-based movement, but they haven't necessarily, you know, done the work.

1:04:30 And even me, I would say, I would put myself in that category a few years ago, where I felt like, yes, I did this film and I went vegan, but I haven't put in some of the work that some of these other people have put in the movement. And I want to acknowledge that. And I want to say that the women that you have on this panel today, like, they might not be super trendy and, you know, like, world-renowned, but you pick women who are doing the work. So, thank you for recognising that. Well, I actually thought that you all are trendy and world-renowned. In my opinion, that's how I feel about you. But you get what I'm saying. Everybody has their 15 minutes.

1:05:11 And sometimes it's 45 minutes and sometimes it's 10 minutes. But I think that, you know, to your point, Gwena, where you said we have to clean up our own act, I think it's really important that we start getting rid of our own egos, or at least putting a little kybosh on the ego of who did this, who's responsible for that, who made this, who's leading this, because, again, you know, there's nothing to bring people together like a climate crisis. And when I say climate crisis, I'm not just limiting to that. Let's face it. As far as I can see, going plant -based as a global culture would solve human world hunger, since a huge percentage of the food, if not most of the food being produced, is being fed to farmed animals.

1:05:59 It would stop climate-related or help mitigate mass climate-related migration, which is an aspect, for example, of the immigration crisis that nobody discusses, that a lot of temperate land where people work the land for centuries and aeons is no longer temperate, and they can't stay there and grow their own food, so they move, because climate change has destroyed the temperate nature of the land that they've been raised on. It would certainly solve the warming of the planet and the ocean dead zones and wildlife extinction, habitat destruction. I mean, the list is very long, preventable human lifestyle diseases.

1:06:43 So I think that we are looking at such a huge solution to so many problems that it's understandable that there's some frustration that it's not evident to everybody that this is a super, super important issue at the very least. So I just want to thank all of you for your work, your incredible work. You've inspired me. I feel we are on the brink. Hopefully we'll come back next year for Black History Month and announce that we've had even more progress. And I just want to say to everyone, thank you so much for being a part of this really important conversation.

1:07:27 Thank you for having us. Thank you. Thank you so much. It's been great. And I always take the opportunity to tell people to please, please download Unchained TV. We are the world's only free nonprofit vegan streaming network, and you can download it on any phone, and you can download it on any TV. It's on all Samsung TVs or any TV via Amazon Firestick, Roku device or Apple TV device. It's also available on your phone. You can download it for free. Unchained TV. This video is streaming now and will continue to stream as well as almost 2,000 other documentaries, including The Invisible Vegan.

1:08:10 Thank you so much, ladies. Have a great one. Happy Black History Month. Thank you.