UnchainedTV: Cruelty - Get The Hell Out Of Fashion Now!

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Now, here's your host, Jane Velez Mitchell.

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You are looking at a woman performing an

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incredible burlesque show.

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However, those are not real feathers, although they

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look just like real feathers.

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This is a cruelty-free fashion show.

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And this entire hour is going to be

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cruelty-free, where we show you there is

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no place for animal cruelty in fashion.

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Those are not real feathers.

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There is absolutely no need whatsoever to torture

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any animal for fashion.

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Monica Kaye is the woman holding those feathers.

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She's gonna be joining us today.

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And there she is, Monica.

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We've got other fantastic guests, but take it

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away.

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Tell us about your campaign to end feathers

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in fashion.

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Hi, Jane, thanks for having me on.

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I started the feather phase-out campaign in

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January of last year, so it's been 13

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months now.

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And I was primarily motivated to begin this

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campaign because as a dancer and as a

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vegan, I'm very aware of how feathers are

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used in all forms of dance.

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And it was always upsetting to me to

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be in dressing rooms or even be an

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audience member at a show and see feathers.

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And I've met a lot of performers that

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are either vegan or close to vegan, and

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they also would prefer to use a non

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-feather item, but we've just been kind of

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just doing what everyone before us does.

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Typically, when you dance, you have a mentor.

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When you're learning dance, and if the mentor

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uses feathers, then the student ends up using

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it.

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And that just keeps passing on and on

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and on, generation to generation, practising using feathers.

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And I never had to use feathers in

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any of my acts.

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And I came up with this faux feather

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burlesque fan, and people are interested.

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And I think that there's a need for

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faux feathers in burlesque because the demand is

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there.

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People want to use them.

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And I wanna say, and I'm gonna put

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it right here in the comment section, you

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have a show coming up, and it is

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going to be a very, may I say,

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sexy, glamorous event in Pomona, and it's cruelty

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-free.

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You said you would participate only if it

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was cruelty-free.

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Tell me about that.

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Yeah, so when I started the campaign, unbeknownst

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to me, and I'm finding this out now,

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studios all over the world are using a

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tutorial that I made to make these fans.

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And there was a studio in Pomona where

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a few of the students kept making these

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faux feather fans using the feather phase-out

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tutorial.

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And the owner of the studio decided to

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reach out to me and invite me to

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be a part of their Valentine's-themed show.

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And I have been trying to retire for

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a while now to move on to other

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things.

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And when she asked me to do it,

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I thought, well, this would be a good

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opportunity for me to get, just like with

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the vegan fashion show in Canada, this would

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be a good opportunity for me to prove

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that these are faux feathers, they're beautiful, burlesque

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artists can use these.

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The audience, they don't even know that, they

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can't even tell that they're fake.

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Like, they think they're real feathers.

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So I was pretty much motivated to do

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the show because I could be on stage,

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get proof, photographic video proof that these are

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usable props.

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And, but the caveat would be that I

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wouldn't want to participate in the show if

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somebody else were using real feathers.

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Because that's just always been a real downer

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for me as a performer.

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And I think- And you, this is

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great activism by saying, look, I'll participate if

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it's cruelty-free.

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You made the entire performance cruelty-free.

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Where'd it go?

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I want to very quickly play your, just

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a tiny snippet of your how to make

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faux feathers tutorial that's all over YouTube.

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Let's just take a quick look at it.

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And this video is going to show you

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how to make collapsable burlesque fans, just like

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these, out of faux pompous.

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So this stuff, not the real stuff.

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Got disassembled faux pompous.

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They come wrapped like this.

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So you just take that paper off, throw

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it in the trash, disassembled pompous.

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I also have some where I've trimmed the

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stems off.

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Wow.

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So that's what people are using all around

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the world.

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The tutorial you created so that those who

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want to have that feathery look, I saw

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it at the Superbowl.

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I mean, I pray that those weren't real

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feathers, but I just saw it this past

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weekend at the Superbowl.

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You're nodding your head, Nina Jekyll.

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You are a fierce campaigner against cruelty, the

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leader of, and indeed Lady Freethinker in the

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house.

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And you have unmasked the most extraordinarily horrific

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cruelty involving fur.

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And we're only gonna show a couple of

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photos because honestly it is just too disturbing.

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But your investigation has shown that fur unfortunately

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is still continuing and still causing torture to

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animals.

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It is.

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In fact, we found thousands of foxes and

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raccoon dogs just languishing in tiny filthy cages

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on two Chinese fur farms.

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This was an investigation in cooperation with Paws

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of China, a local organisation.

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And as you can see there, this is

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actually in transport.

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So after they're removed from their breeding housing

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cages using metal tongs or poles, they're crammed

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into these tiny, tiny cages and shipped off

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to slaughter.

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Some of them were actually slaughtered on site

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and very often they were seen moving, thrashing

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around, blinking, still visibly conscious even as they

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were being skinned.

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So the animals are very much being skinned

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alive in this industry.

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I know it's horrifying to talk about it,

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but unfortunately fur is still to some people

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fashionable.

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And to think that these animals undergo such

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suffering, so much pain and agony just so

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somebody can wear a coat or a trinket,

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it is hard to wrap your head around.

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And I do hope that with these findings,

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we can expose the reality of this industry

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to more people and help them make more

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compassionate decisions because nobody needs to wear fur.

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Those faux feathers were absolutely gorgeous.

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I love them.

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Similarly, we have all kinds of faux fur.

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You can wear any type of colour and

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texture imaginable and not have to kill an

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animal to do it.

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It's beyond comprehension evil.

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And I am proud to say that I

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am, and so are you Nina in California,

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which just became the first state in the

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nation in January of 2023 to officially ban

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the sale and manufacture of any new animal

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fur products.

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Of course, it's a question of enforcement.

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Already some activists have gone and tried to

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determine whether it's being enforced.

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And there are stores that one activist found

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pretty easily that still were selling new fur.

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And when she confronted them about the law,

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they said, so it seems, but they acted

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like they didn't know.

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So we have to make sure our government

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enforces the law in California.

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And this incredible activist said, everybody needs to

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become the fur police and go into stores

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in California and ask them, even with a

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hidden camera, are you selling fur?

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And if they start showing new fur, that

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is in violation of the law.

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They need to be prosecuted.

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And that is something that I certainly hope

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happens because a law is only as good

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as its enforcement.

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Now we've got the fashion show, the vegan

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fashion show founder here from Canada.

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Vicky, we are so proud to have you.

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And I wanted to show a little bit

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of, you sent me some clips.

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I could have been watching them all day

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and all night because they were so glamorous

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and exciting.

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But tell us about your, the vegan fashion

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show in Canada and how it is really

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changing the game.

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And by the way, this is still technically

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New York Fashion Week going on.

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And we certainly hope that there's no fur,

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no feathers, no silk, no wool.

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Unfortunately there probably is, but take it away,

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Vicky.

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Hi, thanks for having me.

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So yeah, I think a lot of the

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people in the Toronto area and I'm sure

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everywhere else, they don't really know what's going

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on and how these animals become materials.

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And I say that in quotes for the

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fur industry, leather and everything like that.

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And so what we do is even for

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our model casting, we'll have a presentation about

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it.

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We preview trailers for different documentaries such as

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Slave.

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Yeah, so I mean, I really started doing

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this because of activism that I was doing

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and doing friendly outreach.

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And then I realised people were like, well,

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aren't you wearing leather shoes?

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And it's so easy to think, oh, what

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a ridiculous question.

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But people really don't know.

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They don't know that the cheap old school

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vegan leather exists, let alone next gen materials.

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And you still placed so many cutting edge

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fashion materials in your show.

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And I wanna get to that in a

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minute, but I have to tell you, the

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lines are lighting up.

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I think you're all familiar with Paige Parsons

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Roach.

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Your question or thought, Paige?

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Thank you, hopefully you can hear me.

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Is it true that there are millions of

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animals that are actually bred to become costumes,

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become fashion and so forth around the world?

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Can somebody else read me that, thank you.

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Yeah, I mean, who wants to take that

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one, Nina?

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I mean, yes, animals are bred in those

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tiny cages that we uncovered in our investigation,

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a variety of species.

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We saw foxes, red foxes, Arctic foxes and

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raccoon dogs.

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Obviously there are minks and other animals as

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well.

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And most of the fur right now is

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distributed from China.

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There are still some other countries who also

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distribute, although thankfully it has been banned, I

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believe in about 20 countries raising animals for

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fur, which is phenomenal.

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But as long as people continue to purchase

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it and there's a market, it's going to

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be very hard to stamp it out completely.

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So we really have that power of choice

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as consumers to stop this cruelty from happening.

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You know, just yesterday I was walking my

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dog.

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Zuh, you may hear them in the background

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every so often.

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And they remind us that these are sentient

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beings who are just like children and who

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need to be protected.

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00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:18,700
And my dogs and your dogs are no

273
00:12:18,700 --> 00:12:20,960
different than the dogs that they are torturing

274
00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:23,320
in China and in other parts of the

275
00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:24,220
world, okay?

276
00:12:25,420 --> 00:12:27,180
But there was a woman wearing a fur

277
00:12:27,180 --> 00:12:28,740
coat and I've seen her several times.

278
00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:30,780
She had a dog and I walked right

279
00:12:30,780 --> 00:12:32,280
up to her and I said, I certainly

280
00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:35,840
hope that's, oh, I had a feeling it

281
00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:38,380
wasn't, but it made me disgusted that even

282
00:12:38,380 --> 00:12:42,660
today walking around, you still see people, it

283
00:12:42,660 --> 00:12:44,220
wasn't a full length fur coat, but it

284
00:12:44,220 --> 00:12:45,960
was, you could see the fur trim.

285
00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:48,100
And it's like, wake up people.

286
00:12:48,680 --> 00:12:51,760
I mean, it's just beyond comprehension to be

287
00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:55,020
walking a dog and essentially wearing dogs at

288
00:12:55,020 --> 00:12:56,040
the same time.

289
00:12:56,380 --> 00:12:58,800
So, you know, it's really upsetting.

290
00:12:59,260 --> 00:13:02,680
And we, look, I was polite.

291
00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:04,680
I didn't scream in her face, but I

292
00:13:04,680 --> 00:13:07,000
said, I certainly hope that's faux.

293
00:13:07,180 --> 00:13:08,600
And I think as I was walking away,

294
00:13:08,660 --> 00:13:10,340
she said it wasn't and tried to offer

295
00:13:10,340 --> 00:13:10,960
an excuse.

296
00:13:11,220 --> 00:13:16,100
But really to wear that is to essentially

297
00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:18,820
applaud animal torture.

298
00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:20,140
That's what it is.

299
00:13:20,620 --> 00:13:24,800
I can comment too on Paige's enquiry.

300
00:13:25,540 --> 00:13:29,300
There's very little visibility in the feather supply

301
00:13:29,300 --> 00:13:29,880
industry.

302
00:13:30,900 --> 00:13:33,520
But what I did find was that there

303
00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:36,840
are birds that are protected across the world

304
00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:38,980
in various countries for different reasons.

305
00:13:39,660 --> 00:13:41,580
And so there is a lot of black

306
00:13:41,580 --> 00:13:47,080
market trading, illegal trading, smuggling, illegal slaughter of

307
00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:49,340
birds, some of which are protected, some are

308
00:13:49,340 --> 00:13:49,740
not.

309
00:13:50,380 --> 00:13:53,940
And so wearing feathers and treating it as

310
00:13:53,940 --> 00:13:58,500
if it is a fashionable, desirable product encourages

311
00:13:58,500 --> 00:14:00,440
that kind of black market trading.

312
00:14:01,780 --> 00:14:03,340
Thank you so much for that.

313
00:14:03,420 --> 00:14:05,220
We're gonna go out to the phone lines.

314
00:14:05,380 --> 00:14:08,560
We've got another caller, Nilo Farr in Dallas,

315
00:14:08,740 --> 00:14:09,060
Texas.

316
00:14:09,380 --> 00:14:12,260
Your question or thought for our panel, fighting

317
00:14:12,260 --> 00:14:14,040
cruelty in fashion.

318
00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:20,320
Hi, I am an animal activist in Dallas

319
00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:21,120
Fort Worth.

320
00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:25,300
It's a privilege courtesy of Unchained TV.

321
00:14:26,180 --> 00:14:29,280
Ending cruelty in fashion should be a winnable

322
00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:31,940
campaign and we've come a long way.

323
00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:36,680
Yet circa about a decade ago, it seemed

324
00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:39,340
that satin fur was in sight.

325
00:14:39,940 --> 00:14:44,260
But fur came back mostly in trims and

326
00:14:44,260 --> 00:14:44,800
liners.

327
00:14:45,940 --> 00:14:50,440
What remains as the fundamental challenge today to

328
00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:55,820
eliminate cruelty as vegan fashion becomes more trendy?

329
00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:00,680
Well, I'm gonna hit that with Nina and

330
00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:02,140
then we'll go back to Vicky.

331
00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:04,340
Yeah, that's a great question because we really

332
00:15:04,340 --> 00:15:05,880
have come such a long way.

333
00:15:06,300 --> 00:15:08,000
And for a while it seemed like fur

334
00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:10,060
was just going to disappear very quickly.

335
00:15:10,780 --> 00:15:13,940
Unfortunately, it's rarely quite that simple and there's

336
00:15:13,940 --> 00:15:14,360
a pendulum.

337
00:15:14,740 --> 00:15:16,440
It tends to swing right now.

338
00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:20,220
We are seeing that mop wife fur trend

339
00:15:20,220 --> 00:15:24,540
happening, unfortunately, which has made things more difficult.

340
00:15:25,100 --> 00:15:27,200
That said, I do believe that the momentum

341
00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:28,060
is still there.

342
00:15:28,460 --> 00:15:30,080
And as long as we keep talking about

343
00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:32,720
it, as long as we keep showing people

344
00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:37,020
the reality behind it and offering those amazing

345
00:15:37,020 --> 00:15:40,520
vegan fashions that you mentioned, I do believe

346
00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:42,780
that not only is it winnable but we

347
00:15:42,780 --> 00:15:44,040
will win this soon.

348
00:15:45,180 --> 00:15:49,760
Patience is a must in activism, even when

349
00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:53,100
it's an issue that just seems so obvious.

350
00:15:54,260 --> 00:15:55,340
Fur is not relevant.

351
00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:57,200
It does not need to exist.

352
00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:00,940
And I think we're in those last stages

353
00:16:00,940 --> 00:16:05,740
and that we will see a final nail

354
00:16:05,740 --> 00:16:08,000
in the coffin fairly soon.

355
00:16:08,780 --> 00:16:10,420
Yeah, and I mean, to me, it's a

356
00:16:10,420 --> 00:16:11,720
contrarian indicator.

357
00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:13,720
If you feel the need to wear fur,

358
00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:15,160
to me it says you have a low

359
00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:18,840
self-esteem because if maybe in the 19th

360
00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:21,380
century, it was something that the upper classes

361
00:16:21,380 --> 00:16:23,920
wore to distinguish themselves from the peasants or

362
00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:27,040
whatever, but we're not in that stage anymore.

363
00:16:27,180 --> 00:16:29,860
The most famous and the richest people in

364
00:16:29,860 --> 00:16:31,260
the world walk around in t-shirts.

365
00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:34,820
They hold investor meetings in t-shirts.

366
00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:40,080
So a fur is really a contrarian indicator

367
00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:43,660
and I do wanna get to some more

368
00:16:43,660 --> 00:16:46,280
video on the vegan fashion show out of

369
00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:47,900
Canada, but we've got more callers.

370
00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:50,220
Annie in Sherman Oaks, your question or thought

371
00:16:50,220 --> 00:16:51,660
for our fabulous panel.

372
00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:55,220
Oh, hi, thank you, Jane.

373
00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:59,100
Thank you fabulous panel, incredible work you do.

374
00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:03,280
Yes, it's so disgusting that people do not

375
00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:05,380
realise the cruelty behind the scenes.

376
00:17:06,859 --> 00:17:11,980
Aside from doing the fashion show, Monica and

377
00:17:11,980 --> 00:17:14,240
Lady Freethinker, all of you are amazing.

378
00:17:16,060 --> 00:17:20,599
What methods are there companies to take over

379
00:17:20,599 --> 00:17:27,359
the companies that actually sell real fur from

380
00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:29,840
the animals, fur feathers and all that?

381
00:17:29,980 --> 00:17:32,280
I'm an activist, I'd love to do that,

382
00:17:32,340 --> 00:17:32,660
you know?

383
00:17:33,100 --> 00:17:33,960
Yes, thank you.

384
00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:37,560
Part of it is convincing companies that sell

385
00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:38,780
fur to not sell fur.

386
00:17:38,980 --> 00:17:42,720
And generally that takes some pretty intense protest.

387
00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:45,840
And I've seen it, I've worked in these

388
00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:46,440
campaigns.

389
00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:49,260
You ask nicely, you send letters, you send

390
00:17:49,260 --> 00:17:52,420
videotape, you do petitions, nothing, nothing, nothing.

391
00:17:52,780 --> 00:17:55,440
And then when you start protesting inside their

392
00:17:55,440 --> 00:18:00,020
stores, outside their homes, at events, like there

393
00:18:00,020 --> 00:18:02,740
was a famous furrier who was being feted

394
00:18:02,740 --> 00:18:04,680
at the Metropolitan Museum of Art.

395
00:18:04,820 --> 00:18:07,140
And it was disrupted by activists who played

396
00:18:07,140 --> 00:18:09,720
sounds of animals being skinned alive.

397
00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:11,980
It was after that, that he came out

398
00:18:11,980 --> 00:18:14,700
and said, I am no longer selling fur.

399
00:18:14,780 --> 00:18:18,820
But it takes that kind of really intense

400
00:18:18,820 --> 00:18:23,040
confrontation, appeals to conscience almost never work when

401
00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:24,800
it comes to corporations.

402
00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:27,600
And that is something that is very, very

403
00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:29,520
sad, but it's very true.

404
00:18:30,180 --> 00:18:32,280
Nina, just address that, and then we're gonna

405
00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:32,780
go to Vicky.

406
00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:36,180
Yeah, I mean, when there's profit involved, it

407
00:18:36,180 --> 00:18:39,860
makes ending cruelty that much more insurmountable.

408
00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:43,320
But when you add that public pressure, especially

409
00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:46,880
when press gets involved, and when public opinion

410
00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:49,260
starts to turn against that company for the

411
00:18:49,260 --> 00:18:51,780
cruelty, that's where you can make inroads.

412
00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:53,600
And we have seen it happen.

413
00:18:54,260 --> 00:18:57,180
You know, now most major designers have stopped

414
00:18:57,180 --> 00:19:00,340
selling fur, you know, really because of that

415
00:19:00,340 --> 00:19:01,100
public pressure.

416
00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:02,920
And there are a couple left, you know,

417
00:19:02,980 --> 00:19:04,440
right now there's a really big push to

418
00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:06,440
get Max Mara to stop selling fur.

419
00:19:07,060 --> 00:19:09,540
And you just have to keep clamouring away,

420
00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:12,680
be persistent, keep that message out there, get

421
00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:14,540
it seen by as many people as possible.

422
00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:17,140
And that tide does turn against that company

423
00:19:17,140 --> 00:19:18,900
with enough pressure that things change.

424
00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:20,880
All right, one more caller.

425
00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:25,320
We've got Tom in Chicago.

426
00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:26,980
Your question or thought for our panel.

427
00:19:27,980 --> 00:19:29,760
Hi Jane, thanks for taking my call.

428
00:19:30,260 --> 00:19:32,860
My question was that about celebrities that will

429
00:19:32,860 --> 00:19:33,480
wear fur.

430
00:19:34,380 --> 00:19:36,340
The other day, Reba McEntire is wearing a

431
00:19:36,340 --> 00:19:36,800
fur coat.

432
00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:38,460
Okay, a couple of years ago, we saw

433
00:19:38,460 --> 00:19:39,880
a big boy at the Superbowl wearing a

434
00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:40,320
fur coat.

435
00:19:40,460 --> 00:19:41,680
Lady Gaga's wearing fur.

436
00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:43,700
Why don't we reach out to the celebrities

437
00:19:43,700 --> 00:19:46,160
and say, please not endorse these products because

438
00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:48,460
they influence thousands, if not millions of people.

439
00:19:48,900 --> 00:19:50,200
Someone needs to reach out to them and

440
00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:52,880
say, do not wear fur, advocate, do not

441
00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:55,700
cause the suffering and torturing of animals to

442
00:19:55,700 --> 00:19:57,940
wear fake fur, things like this, if they

443
00:19:57,940 --> 00:19:58,920
can influence these people.

444
00:19:59,380 --> 00:20:01,120
It's really frustrating to see them do these

445
00:20:01,120 --> 00:20:01,380
things.

446
00:20:01,500 --> 00:20:04,520
It's so unconscionable they would wear fur products

447
00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:06,480
and influence their audience, if you will.

448
00:20:06,940 --> 00:20:08,180
Anyway, you could reach out to them and

449
00:20:08,180 --> 00:20:09,760
tell them, please do not wear fur and

450
00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:11,580
be an advocate for going fur free.

451
00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:12,660
Thank you for taking my call.

452
00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:14,740
Yeah, and I want to point out, I

453
00:20:14,740 --> 00:20:18,060
do not have the ability to live television

454
00:20:18,700 --> 00:20:21,100
confirm or deny any of the claims that

455
00:20:21,100 --> 00:20:22,340
was made by that caller.

456
00:20:22,580 --> 00:20:26,300
I don't know if those particular examples are

457
00:20:26,300 --> 00:20:29,020
correct, but there were people, and it's hard

458
00:20:29,020 --> 00:20:31,260
to tell when you're watching on TV, who

459
00:20:31,260 --> 00:20:34,220
are watching major events that almost always you

460
00:20:34,220 --> 00:20:37,940
see somebody that looks like they're wearing fur.

461
00:20:38,360 --> 00:20:40,420
So let me move toward Vicky.

462
00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:44,140
Vicky, how do we combat this?

463
00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:47,940
You're doing it proactively with your fashion line

464
00:20:48,460 --> 00:20:52,080
and it's very effective because your fashions are

465
00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:52,520
gorgeous.

466
00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:55,940
And so people would want to look like

467
00:20:55,940 --> 00:20:58,160
that, look like you, look like the women

468
00:20:58,160 --> 00:20:59,440
on the runway and the men on the

469
00:20:59,440 --> 00:20:59,700
runway.

470
00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:03,320
Yeah, I think people are very impressionable.

471
00:21:05,180 --> 00:21:07,360
Things that we're seeing on social media, I

472
00:21:07,360 --> 00:21:09,640
think people see it glamorised and we need

473
00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:12,580
to let them know it's coming from violence.

474
00:21:12,740 --> 00:21:14,240
It's not glamour.

475
00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:18,440
We need to stop romanticising fur, for example.

476
00:21:19,260 --> 00:21:20,580
And I think we need to take a

477
00:21:20,580 --> 00:21:21,820
systems thinking approach.

478
00:21:22,660 --> 00:21:24,300
There's just so many different angles we need

479
00:21:24,300 --> 00:21:26,320
to attack this issue from.

480
00:21:26,540 --> 00:21:28,700
And I feel like everyone can find their

481
00:21:28,700 --> 00:21:30,260
own way to do their part.

482
00:21:30,660 --> 00:21:33,020
For myself, I felt like the vegan fashion

483
00:21:33,020 --> 00:21:35,780
show was something that I could do just

484
00:21:35,780 --> 00:21:39,720
based on my experiences, experience with brands, networking

485
00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:42,340
with influencers and brands over the years, and

486
00:21:42,340 --> 00:21:44,100
just being a model in the past myself.

487
00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:46,680
For me, this was the way that I

488
00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:49,140
felt I could best do something about it.

489
00:21:50,020 --> 00:21:51,720
There's so many things I wanna do, of

490
00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:54,220
course, but I do like fashion and I

491
00:21:54,220 --> 00:21:56,980
know a lot of my friends and acquaintances,

492
00:21:57,180 --> 00:21:58,620
they like fashion and I want them to

493
00:21:58,620 --> 00:22:00,260
know where it comes from.

494
00:22:00,380 --> 00:22:02,260
I think everyone deserves to know how their

495
00:22:02,260 --> 00:22:04,840
fashion is made and what it's really made

496
00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:05,280
out of.

497
00:22:06,100 --> 00:22:09,300
Yeah, and I wanna jump to the actual

498
00:22:09,300 --> 00:22:12,120
fashion show as it happens.

499
00:22:12,120 --> 00:22:15,220
So you can take a 32nd sense of

500
00:22:15,220 --> 00:22:18,540
being there in Canada at the vegan fashion

501
00:22:18,540 --> 00:22:18,940
show.

502
00:22:19,100 --> 00:22:20,800
Let's listen to this and then we'll talk

503
00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:21,460
on the other side.

504
00:22:21,620 --> 00:22:23,700
And it's a fashion label based in Beijing,

505
00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:24,160
China.

506
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:26,680
The designer brand was co-founded by Trans

507
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:30,420
Boundary designer, Stephen Shen and director, Louis Yin.

508
00:22:30,900 --> 00:22:34,000
The designs are simple, structuralist, easy to wear

509
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:35,220
and dispels gender.

510
00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:38,160
QZ Shen has won the Love Design Award

511
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:39,260
from PETA Asia.

512
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:53,120
Now, it seems like that is the cutting

513
00:22:53,120 --> 00:22:54,280
edge in fashion.

514
00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:55,980
It was gender fluid.

515
00:22:56,360 --> 00:22:57,800
It was based out of China.

516
00:22:57,920 --> 00:22:59,480
It got a PETA award.

517
00:23:00,180 --> 00:23:03,160
Like you, vegan fashion is on the cutting

518
00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:04,240
edge of fashion.

519
00:23:04,980 --> 00:23:09,000
Yeah, we had a great mix of designers.

520
00:23:09,260 --> 00:23:11,900
We had an indigenous designer, which is great

521
00:23:11,900 --> 00:23:14,060
because a lot of people in Canada, at

522
00:23:14,060 --> 00:23:16,820
least I know think that indigenous and vegan,

523
00:23:17,120 --> 00:23:18,940
it's like conflicting, but it doesn't have to

524
00:23:18,940 --> 00:23:19,600
be that way.

525
00:23:20,500 --> 00:23:21,960
We had a faith-based designer.

526
00:23:22,820 --> 00:23:25,800
And I think it's just good to intersect

527
00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:29,400
with different values and causes and show that

528
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:32,480
everyone can be compassionate with their fashion choices.

529
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:35,020
No matter what you're looking for, there's something

530
00:23:35,020 --> 00:23:35,860
out there for you.

531
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:37,280
Excellent.

532
00:23:37,580 --> 00:23:39,060
And we've got more callers.

533
00:23:39,180 --> 00:23:40,400
Let's see who's up next.

534
00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:42,060
We've got Tiffany in Los Angeles.

535
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:44,780
Your question or thought for our fantastic panel.

536
00:23:47,980 --> 00:23:48,220
Tiffany.

537
00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:50,520
Gorgeous.

538
00:23:51,300 --> 00:23:53,500
And it's really inspiring to see this.

539
00:23:53,660 --> 00:23:55,600
I felt so, I won't mention any names,

540
00:23:55,740 --> 00:23:58,220
but after watching the talent at the Superbowl

541
00:23:58,220 --> 00:24:01,000
and then seeing them in a long white

542
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:04,640
fur jacket, I was just so disgusted.

543
00:24:04,980 --> 00:24:06,720
So this is really inspiring.

544
00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:08,900
Are there any plans to bring the show

545
00:24:08,900 --> 00:24:11,740
to the States or Los Angeles in particular?

546
00:24:12,700 --> 00:24:14,380
Good question, Vicki.

547
00:24:14,580 --> 00:24:15,300
We could use it.

548
00:24:15,340 --> 00:24:17,800
Now, I wanna say, we do have a

549
00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:20,600
vegan fashion scene here.

550
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:22,500
And I was just, in fact, we did

551
00:24:22,500 --> 00:24:25,380
a video about a vegan fashion show here

552
00:24:25,380 --> 00:24:28,160
in Los Angeles, downtown LA, Michelle and I

553
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:31,000
were there and it was pretty fantastic.

554
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:32,700
But the more, the merrier, right?

555
00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:35,500
There's a whole bunch of non-vegan fashion

556
00:24:35,500 --> 00:24:36,100
shows.

557
00:24:36,180 --> 00:24:38,780
We should have tonnes of vegan fashion shows.

558
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:39,940
Go ahead, Vicki.

559
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:42,640
So right now, yeah, as you said, that

560
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:44,760
there already is a vegan fashion week there.

561
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:49,100
So we're actually just focused on Canada right

562
00:24:49,100 --> 00:24:49,460
now.

563
00:24:49,580 --> 00:24:51,420
So we already have covered Toronto.

564
00:24:51,660 --> 00:24:53,760
This year we're gonna be in Vancouver and

565
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:56,220
Toronto partnering up with Tanted Expo.

566
00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:59,560
In the future, we'll go to Montreal as

567
00:24:59,560 --> 00:24:59,940
well.

568
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:02,880
But yeah, and there's a lot of things

569
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:04,580
we can do online to reach people.

570
00:25:05,220 --> 00:25:06,380
So yes, the more, the merrier.

571
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:08,040
I hope that there is more vegan fashion

572
00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:09,300
events all over the world.

573
00:25:09,820 --> 00:25:13,080
I also, I was thinking, recently, I wish

574
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:15,200
I called it Next Gen Fashion Week because

575
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:17,520
now I'm just such, I'm a geek for

576
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:19,960
all these new materials coming out.

577
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:22,220
But when I had thought about this idea

578
00:25:22,220 --> 00:25:26,640
originally years ago, next gen fashion and materials

579
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:28,700
were not really coming out.

580
00:25:28,700 --> 00:25:30,700
So I wasn't even aware of the term

581
00:25:30,700 --> 00:25:33,020
next gen materials at that time.

582
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:36,140
So, you know, every year there's changes, there's

583
00:25:36,140 --> 00:25:38,020
so much more innovation every year and I'm

584
00:25:38,020 --> 00:25:39,320
just really excited about it.

585
00:25:39,700 --> 00:25:41,820
Well, let me just show the purse runway

586
00:25:41,820 --> 00:25:42,360
show.

587
00:25:42,860 --> 00:25:45,780
This was part of your vegan fashion show

588
00:25:45,780 --> 00:25:48,180
in Canada and this was next gen materials.

589
00:25:48,300 --> 00:25:49,520
Maybe you can explain a little bit.

590
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,340
Yes, so this is made out of Mirum.

591
00:25:55,100 --> 00:25:58,460
So Mirum is, you know, the most commercially

592
00:25:58,460 --> 00:26:01,660
available right now material that is plastic free,

593
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:03,360
a vegan plastic free material.

594
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:05,940
But not only is it zero plastic, it

595
00:26:05,940 --> 00:26:06,820
is low carbon.

596
00:26:07,340 --> 00:26:09,340
It takes no water to make.

597
00:26:09,460 --> 00:26:11,860
It's non-toxic, it's all natural.

598
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:14,840
It's circular and by circular, I mean, that

599
00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:16,640
is what Mirum wants us to say when

600
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:18,160
we talk about it, but what it really

601
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:22,640
means, it is biodegradable in the right conditions.

602
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:26,000
I don't say that it's recyclable, you can

603
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:29,100
endlessly recycle it because I don't think recycling

604
00:26:29,100 --> 00:26:31,220
is like, you know, the end all solution,

605
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:32,360
but it's circular.

606
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:34,780
You know, there's just really no downsides to

607
00:26:34,780 --> 00:26:35,020
it.

608
00:26:35,360 --> 00:26:37,440
So, I mean, of course, let's not kid

609
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:40,280
ourselves, overconsumption is the biggest problem.

610
00:26:40,500 --> 00:26:41,960
So I'm not saying to like go buy,

611
00:26:42,020 --> 00:26:44,360
buy, buy, but there really is no more

612
00:26:44,360 --> 00:26:44,960
excuses.

613
00:26:45,180 --> 00:26:47,000
You know, we have the leather industry saying,

614
00:26:48,360 --> 00:26:50,340
oh, like vegan leather is plastic, blah, blah,

615
00:26:50,460 --> 00:26:50,580
blah.

616
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:53,060
And by the way, with people that say

617
00:26:53,060 --> 00:26:56,220
that, I'm glad that people are concerned about

618
00:26:56,220 --> 00:26:58,080
plastic pollution, but I hope they don't eat

619
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:00,660
fish because the fishing industry is a really,

620
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:02,560
you know, top polluter there.

621
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:05,720
So anyways, back to vegan fashion, you know,

622
00:27:05,780 --> 00:27:09,040
there's just no excuses now to be wearing

623
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:09,520
real leather.

624
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:13,400
What I don't get is that fashion always

625
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:16,280
tries to be on the cutting edge.

626
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:20,660
Fashion really is about evolution, the evolution of

627
00:27:20,660 --> 00:27:21,200
style.

628
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:26,080
And you'd think that everybody would want to

629
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:27,620
embrace the very latest.

630
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:29,420
Now we know with a lot of fancy

631
00:27:29,420 --> 00:27:33,660
electric luxury cars, there's vegan leather and vegan

632
00:27:33,660 --> 00:27:34,740
leather has taken over.

633
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:37,220
I love to look at people's feet when

634
00:27:37,220 --> 00:27:39,120
I'm walking in a crowded area and I'm

635
00:27:39,120 --> 00:27:41,700
seeing more and more people are not wearing

636
00:27:41,700 --> 00:27:42,260
leather.

637
00:27:43,220 --> 00:27:45,420
Maybe, you know, on Wall Street, there's a

638
00:27:45,420 --> 00:27:47,660
lot of leather shoes, but everywhere else, it

639
00:27:47,660 --> 00:27:49,900
seems that a lot of shoes are just

640
00:27:49,900 --> 00:27:50,600
non-leather.

641
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:55,240
I was at a very hard show, showroom

642
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:57,680
the other day where there were shoes everywhere

643
00:27:57,680 --> 00:27:59,940
and there was a tag, I'll leave the

644
00:27:59,940 --> 00:28:01,760
brand name out of it, said vegan leather.

645
00:28:01,900 --> 00:28:03,420
And I turned to the woman, I said,

646
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:06,000
oh, I said, this is vegan leather, what

647
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:06,500
about this?

648
00:28:06,540 --> 00:28:08,440
And she said to me, all of our

649
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:09,120
shoes are vegan.

650
00:28:09,260 --> 00:28:10,640
Like I was an idiot, I was like,

651
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:12,240
yay, yay.

652
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:15,220
So, I mean, let's do a round robin

653
00:28:15,220 --> 00:28:15,660
on this.

654
00:28:15,660 --> 00:28:21,020
Like why, Monica, you're in fashion, you're in

655
00:28:21,020 --> 00:28:25,300
burlesque, you're in, you know, basically it's about

656
00:28:25,300 --> 00:28:27,340
wanting to be attractive, wanting to be sexy,

657
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,140
wanting to be cool, wanting to be the

658
00:28:30,140 --> 00:28:31,180
latest and the greatest.

659
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:33,360
Why would people wanna be in this old

660
00:28:33,360 --> 00:28:34,380
fashioned materials?

661
00:28:35,780 --> 00:28:38,860
Yeah, I mean, I think that people just

662
00:28:38,860 --> 00:28:41,400
kind of do what the people around them

663
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:41,720
do.

664
00:28:42,340 --> 00:28:45,860
And when it comes to fashion, I think

665
00:28:45,860 --> 00:28:48,080
that people are influenced.

666
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:49,720
I think someone had mentioned that earlier.

667
00:28:50,300 --> 00:28:52,960
I think also there's two groups, there's two

668
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:53,560
mentalities.

669
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,520
One group just doesn't, maybe doesn't care about

670
00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:56,840
animals.

671
00:28:56,980 --> 00:28:58,060
One group just doesn't care.

672
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:01,900
The other group cares, they just don't know

673
00:29:01,900 --> 00:29:03,640
the truth, right?

674
00:29:04,260 --> 00:29:07,380
And then real quick about the community that

675
00:29:07,380 --> 00:29:09,500
I'm focused on, the burlesque community, they happen

676
00:29:09,500 --> 00:29:10,620
to be very confident.

677
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:13,280
They have lots of self-esteem.

678
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:14,740
It takes a lot of self-esteem and

679
00:29:14,740 --> 00:29:16,340
confidence to perform on stage.

680
00:29:16,540 --> 00:29:18,640
So this is the group of people that

681
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:21,700
I think would easily transition over to faux

682
00:29:21,700 --> 00:29:27,200
feathers because they are not trying to, burlesque

683
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:29,180
is all about challenging status quo.

684
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:34,360
It's all about creativity and uniqueness and embracing

685
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:36,180
things that are different.

686
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:40,180
So, you know, this notion of like, okay,

687
00:29:40,180 --> 00:29:42,140
well, people wear fur because they want to

688
00:29:42,140 --> 00:29:45,280
seem elite or upper class or whatever.

689
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:48,240
That doesn't necessarily have to be the case

690
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:51,180
in burlesque because these dancers actually do care

691
00:29:51,180 --> 00:29:51,920
about animals.

692
00:29:52,380 --> 00:29:54,480
It's just, they are not being told the

693
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:55,380
complete truth.

694
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:56,180
And what is the truth?

695
00:29:56,260 --> 00:29:58,700
We don't know because there's not a lot

696
00:29:58,700 --> 00:30:01,520
of undercover investigations regarding feathers.

697
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:05,440
There's the down feathers, down feathers not too

698
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:06,960
much used in burlesque.

699
00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:10,260
And then there was the expose on ostriches,

700
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:11,400
but that's it.

701
00:30:11,500 --> 00:30:14,840
Like there's no other undercover stuff regarding feathers.

702
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:16,840
I think what you're saying is people think,

703
00:30:16,980 --> 00:30:18,760
oh, they just fall off the animal and

704
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:19,520
there's no cruelty.

705
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:21,520
And that's not true, correct?

706
00:30:21,940 --> 00:30:23,080
No, that's not true.

707
00:30:23,180 --> 00:30:26,820
There's no way that, well, first of all,

708
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:27,820
ostriches don't moult.

709
00:30:28,020 --> 00:30:30,800
So ostrich feathers are probably one of the

710
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:33,340
pop, the most popular feather used in burlesque.

711
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:35,280
And ostriches do not moult.

712
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:38,140
If you ask a company that profits off

713
00:30:38,140 --> 00:30:40,420
of ostrich feathers, they're gonna say, oh yeah,

714
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:41,900
there's a moulting season.

715
00:30:42,180 --> 00:30:45,380
But they're probably referring to when they're plucking

716
00:30:45,380 --> 00:30:47,400
feathers off and they're just calling that a

717
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:47,980
moulting season.

718
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:50,600
And companies that do not profit off of

719
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:54,300
feathers, bird experts, things like that, they'll say

720
00:30:54,300 --> 00:30:56,880
that ostriches do not have a moulting season.

721
00:30:58,540 --> 00:31:00,460
Yeah, there's an in demand for feathers.

722
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:03,180
There's just thousands and millions and millions of

723
00:31:03,180 --> 00:31:03,440
feathers.

724
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:04,760
For example, the Big Bird.

725
00:31:06,020 --> 00:31:08,940
Yeah, I have to keep brand names out

726
00:31:08,940 --> 00:31:09,200
of this.

727
00:31:09,420 --> 00:31:13,560
But let's go to Michelle Celestino, our social

728
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:17,820
media director and a fashionista who does OMGLA,

729
00:31:18,340 --> 00:31:21,360
which is one of our series looking at

730
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:22,460
fashion in Los Angeles.

731
00:31:22,940 --> 00:31:23,680
What are your thoughts?

732
00:31:24,380 --> 00:31:25,940
Well, first of all, I wanna say all

733
00:31:25,940 --> 00:31:27,900
of you are so amazing and I'm so

734
00:31:27,900 --> 00:31:29,020
glad we're doing this segment.

735
00:31:29,900 --> 00:31:31,080
I love fashion.

736
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:32,820
I always loved fashion.

737
00:31:32,820 --> 00:31:35,900
I think one of the biggest things for

738
00:31:35,900 --> 00:31:37,780
me to go from plant-based to vegan

739
00:31:37,780 --> 00:31:39,780
was changing out the fashion.

740
00:31:39,980 --> 00:31:41,800
And I have a lot of friends that

741
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:44,820
are conscious, but they don't know what to

742
00:31:44,820 --> 00:31:44,980
do.

743
00:31:45,100 --> 00:31:47,980
So I think what it is, and I'd

744
00:31:47,980 --> 00:31:51,400
love to get everyone's opinion, maybe it's changing

745
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:54,780
the perception of luxury because that's why a

746
00:31:54,780 --> 00:31:56,040
lot of my friends who buy all the

747
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:59,220
brands and all the clothing, it's the idea

748
00:31:59,220 --> 00:32:01,800
and perception of what that means and the

749
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:02,680
luxury of it.

750
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:04,300
And your feathers are amazing.

751
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:06,480
I think they're even prettier in that, like

752
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:08,080
you can dye them and do different things

753
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:08,520
to them.

754
00:32:09,100 --> 00:32:10,280
What do you all think?

755
00:32:11,060 --> 00:32:15,440
I think we should have a variety of

756
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:19,400
different price points for, I'll talk about vegan

757
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:21,600
handbags because this is just in my life

758
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:25,100
so much, but people will complain if it's

759
00:32:25,100 --> 00:32:27,500
too costly, but at the same time, yeah,

760
00:32:27,500 --> 00:32:30,280
we do need to address the luxury desire

761
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:30,920
as well.

762
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:34,000
So I think it's great to have lower

763
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:38,280
price points for more affordable vegan handbags and

764
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:41,640
other types of materials, but then also have

765
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:43,260
the luxury brands as well.

766
00:32:43,660 --> 00:32:45,200
So I think that's gonna be very helpful.

767
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:49,640
And there is this unfair association with vegan

768
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:54,600
products, particularly handbags and shoes as plastic, but

769
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:56,600
you're pointing out that this product here is

770
00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:59,760
not plastic and it's very environmentally sound.

771
00:33:00,980 --> 00:33:02,860
Yes, and we're gonna see more and more

772
00:33:02,860 --> 00:33:03,100
of that.

773
00:33:03,220 --> 00:33:04,660
There is a lot in the works right

774
00:33:04,660 --> 00:33:08,360
now from different material manufacturers, but this is

775
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:10,160
the most commercially available one right now.

776
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:13,120
Yeah, and I have to say also that

777
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:16,960
Vegan Women's Summit is coming up here in

778
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:21,100
Los Angeles where there's a plethora of entrepreneurs,

779
00:33:21,700 --> 00:33:24,960
women entrepreneurs making incredible vegan products.

780
00:33:25,340 --> 00:33:27,500
I attended the Vegan Women's Summit in Brooklyn

781
00:33:27,500 --> 00:33:28,180
last year.

782
00:33:28,180 --> 00:33:31,980
There were people making pineapple leather and all

783
00:33:31,980 --> 00:33:35,140
sorts of leathers from these great products.

784
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:38,640
And honestly, I have a cork leather backpack

785
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:42,020
that was made by a vegan fashion designer.

786
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:44,360
I thought, how long is this gonna last?

787
00:33:44,460 --> 00:33:47,480
It has lasted beyond all of my other

788
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:48,620
products.

789
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:50,120
It is so durable.

790
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:54,440
So Nina, what do we do to counteract

791
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:56,680
this notion that somehow, and this is put

792
00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:59,100
out by industry, that if it's not leather,

793
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:02,020
that A, that leather is natural, which it's

794
00:34:02,020 --> 00:34:04,800
not, that leather doesn't require a lot of

795
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:05,120
chemicals.

796
00:34:05,420 --> 00:34:06,340
It does.

797
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:09,440
That vegan products are somehow plastic.

798
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:10,540
They're not.

799
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:12,159
Of course, you can have plastic.

800
00:34:12,540 --> 00:34:13,940
There's plastic with leather.

801
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:15,920
There's plastic without leather.

802
00:34:16,219 --> 00:34:19,340
But how do we counteract this misinformation?

803
00:34:20,639 --> 00:34:22,560
Right, I just wanna say that I also

804
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:24,659
have a cork leather bag that I absolutely

805
00:34:24,659 --> 00:34:25,100
love.

806
00:34:25,199 --> 00:34:26,580
I don't know if it's the same brand,

807
00:34:26,580 --> 00:34:29,360
but it's super high quality, soft, pliable.

808
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:33,719
So, I mean, there is definitely a perception

809
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:35,880
that if it's not real leather, then it's

810
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:38,100
some sort of synthetic plastic, terrible for the

811
00:34:38,100 --> 00:34:38,360
planet.

812
00:34:39,060 --> 00:34:41,219
And we do have to overcome that.

813
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:43,420
And I think the more products that come

814
00:34:43,420 --> 00:34:46,360
out that are made from natural materials will

815
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:47,540
help perpetuate that.

816
00:34:48,260 --> 00:34:51,800
Not all vegan leather is just a cheap

817
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:53,480
plastic pair of shoes from Amazon.

818
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:58,460
There's really a high-end, well-designed fashion

819
00:34:58,460 --> 00:34:59,740
out there as well.

820
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:03,200
I will say that I doubt that most

821
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:08,000
people buy leather because of environmental concerns.

822
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:10,380
I don't, I mean, some people, yes, that

823
00:35:10,380 --> 00:35:11,120
might be their impetus.

824
00:35:11,780 --> 00:35:14,220
For others, I just think they're not really

825
00:35:14,220 --> 00:35:16,460
thinking about it because leather is just so

826
00:35:16,460 --> 00:35:16,960
pervasive.

827
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:22,100
It's considered normal among many fashion brands when

828
00:35:22,100 --> 00:35:24,960
you do look at their higher-end shoes,

829
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:26,240
that they are made from animal skins.

830
00:35:26,420 --> 00:35:27,560
That's just the way it is.

831
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:30,600
And we need more education, more variety.

832
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:33,000
There's still this perception that leather is just

833
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:35,160
this sort of by-product and animals aren't

834
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:36,340
really harmed for it.

835
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:37,820
And it's okay to buy.

836
00:35:37,940 --> 00:35:39,680
I think there's a lot of consumer education

837
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:40,120
involved.

838
00:35:40,620 --> 00:35:44,660
And there's also a lot of pressuring and

839
00:35:44,660 --> 00:35:48,680
encouraging brands to come up with more products

840
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:50,360
because as much as we have out there,

841
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:54,400
the majority of what we see is still

842
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:55,180
made from animals.

843
00:35:55,980 --> 00:35:58,060
Yeah, but I try to be hopeful.

844
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:01,400
And of course, our rural population is increasing.

845
00:36:01,660 --> 00:36:05,320
So even when we have positive trends, we're

846
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:07,860
always fighting the numbers because even if more

847
00:36:07,860 --> 00:36:12,940
and more people are wearing non-leather shoes

848
00:36:12,940 --> 00:36:17,320
and going with vegan leather in their cars

849
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:20,600
because there's so many people, it seems like

850
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:24,400
we're always fighting just the sheer numbers of

851
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:26,640
humanity making bad decisions.

852
00:36:26,860 --> 00:36:30,260
But I'd like to think that getting to

853
00:36:30,260 --> 00:36:34,840
Michelle's point, that there's now an association of

854
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:36,620
vegan leather with luxury.

855
00:36:37,180 --> 00:36:39,460
Teslas are obviously luxury cars.

856
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:40,240
They're vegan leather.

857
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:43,100
And some of the other electric cars are

858
00:36:43,100 --> 00:36:45,920
mimicking that with the vegan leather.

859
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:48,560
When I first, I remember when I first

860
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:51,080
asked for a non-leather seats in a

861
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:54,180
car that I was buying, I was basically

862
00:36:54,180 --> 00:36:56,800
like accused of being cheap.

863
00:36:56,820 --> 00:36:58,300
And I was like, no, I do this

864
00:36:58,300 --> 00:36:59,760
for philosophical reasons.

865
00:37:00,260 --> 00:37:03,260
And that did not, now I think people

866
00:37:03,260 --> 00:37:07,640
really understand that there's a good reason to

867
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:09,800
switch to vegan leather, a lot of people

868
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:12,800
anyway, and that it is associated with luxury.

869
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:14,700
I mean, I think we have to, whoever

870
00:37:14,700 --> 00:37:17,500
frames the debate, wins the debate.

871
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:20,400
Maybe a round robin on this, how do

872
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:24,560
we better associate vegan products, and I'll start

873
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:28,660
with Vicky, with luxury and point out that

874
00:37:28,660 --> 00:37:32,100
those other products are not just passe, okay?

875
00:37:32,380 --> 00:37:38,140
But they're really vulgar and they're something that

876
00:37:38,140 --> 00:37:40,320
you shouldn't wanna be associated with.

877
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:41,760
That's why I was shocked to see the

878
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:43,680
lady just yesterday with the fur.

879
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:45,580
I was like, gross.

880
00:37:46,900 --> 00:37:48,320
I hope I don't run into her today

881
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:49,660
if she's washing this.

882
00:37:49,820 --> 00:37:50,420
Go ahead.

883
00:37:52,020 --> 00:37:54,320
So yeah, that's one reason I felt that

884
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:57,160
the Vegan Fashion Show is important to provide

885
00:37:57,160 --> 00:37:59,980
a platform for the brands that are passionate

886
00:37:59,980 --> 00:38:01,780
about the same things that we are as

887
00:38:01,780 --> 00:38:02,040
well.

888
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:05,520
And also just for the community to celebrate

889
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:10,740
compassionate choices, because when we don't have, you

890
00:38:10,740 --> 00:38:13,180
know, we'll talk about the models a lot

891
00:38:13,180 --> 00:38:16,560
because I've been so close with them and

892
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:18,420
I know where they're coming from.

893
00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:21,140
And when there's nowhere to be a model

894
00:38:21,140 --> 00:38:24,460
and celebrate compassionate choices, it's just kind of

895
00:38:24,460 --> 00:38:25,620
left out of the conversation.

896
00:38:25,980 --> 00:38:27,940
And so I wanna make it, I didn't

897
00:38:27,940 --> 00:38:28,900
wanna do a bad job.

898
00:38:29,060 --> 00:38:30,560
I didn't want this to be like some

899
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:33,980
little put together last minute kind of fashion

900
00:38:33,980 --> 00:38:35,880
show because I wanted to show that this

901
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:38,140
can be luxurious and desirable as well.

902
00:38:38,140 --> 00:38:40,880
So yeah, I think really just displaying how

903
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:43,260
good it can look is very important.

904
00:38:43,580 --> 00:38:45,260
And this can be on social media.

905
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:47,620
This can be at fashion shows when we're

906
00:38:47,620 --> 00:38:50,520
having conversations with people, you know, the image

907
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:53,300
of vegan fashion definitely needs some help.

908
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:57,760
And I wanna say that the pandemic, I

909
00:38:57,760 --> 00:38:59,720
think put the nail in the coffin of

910
00:38:59,720 --> 00:39:03,880
fur because as we know, if you've been

911
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:07,040
watching the news that during the pandemic mink

912
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:12,280
in Europe became contaminated, they got the virus

913
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:15,300
and they put hundreds of millions of them.

914
00:39:15,860 --> 00:39:18,260
I don't remember exactly how many millions, but

915
00:39:18,260 --> 00:39:20,480
it was like literally dozens of millions of

916
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:23,660
them to death, horrible death.

917
00:39:24,220 --> 00:39:27,400
And not only that, but there was a

918
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:30,900
lot of video of all these minks being

919
00:39:30,900 --> 00:39:34,760
put in dumpsters, white minks with blood all

920
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:35,240
over them.

921
00:39:35,460 --> 00:39:41,040
And any last vestige of an association with

922
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:44,380
glamour, I think was destroyed, thankfully.

923
00:39:44,620 --> 00:39:48,360
I consider those mink martyrs, martyrs because they

924
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:51,500
showed just the horror of it and also

925
00:39:51,500 --> 00:39:54,300
just strip the glamour from it.

926
00:39:54,660 --> 00:39:57,840
And I was wondering, Nina, since you're very

927
00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:02,000
involved given your undercover investigation showing the horror

928
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:03,980
of it, if you could comment on that

929
00:40:03,980 --> 00:40:04,440
a little bit.

930
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:09,760
Yeah, so what COVID did was effectively end

931
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:12,380
mink farming in some places of the world

932
00:40:12,380 --> 00:40:14,860
because the farmers all of a sudden had

933
00:40:14,860 --> 00:40:17,620
to cull their entire populations.

934
00:40:17,860 --> 00:40:21,440
And as horrible as that is, that all

935
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:26,960
of those animals died needlessly, what came from

936
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:30,080
that was that it didn't start up again.

937
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:33,300
I believe Denmark is an example of that.

938
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:36,960
Now, obviously the industry is still happening as

939
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:39,960
we saw in China in our investigation as

940
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:42,260
well as in other parts of the world.

941
00:40:43,100 --> 00:40:49,520
But that mass culling and sickness that happened

942
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:52,040
on fur farms had a huge impact in

943
00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:55,400
the industry and the way that the governments

944
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:58,040
perceived that industry as well.

945
00:40:58,700 --> 00:41:02,680
So, at least there was some positive of

946
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:07,460
all those minks dying and future minks were

947
00:41:07,460 --> 00:41:09,100
saved as a result of that.

948
00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:12,020
Yes, and I mean, it's a process.

949
00:41:12,460 --> 00:41:13,980
What I always try to point out to

950
00:41:13,980 --> 00:41:16,200
myself when I get frustrated is it's hard

951
00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:18,220
to see progress in real time.

952
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:20,180
All of this is a blink of an

953
00:41:20,180 --> 00:41:22,660
eye in the span of geologic time, even

954
00:41:22,660 --> 00:41:26,800
from the agricultural era to the industrial era,

955
00:41:26,860 --> 00:41:27,580
it's all happening.

956
00:41:27,580 --> 00:41:29,660
But for us, it seems like forever.

957
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:33,360
Ultimately, we're gonna have to switch because our

958
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:35,840
planet cannot sustain what's happening.

959
00:41:36,540 --> 00:41:39,500
And all leather, yes, leather and fur from

960
00:41:39,500 --> 00:41:42,040
animals should be absolutely banned.

961
00:41:42,260 --> 00:41:45,140
And we'd like to remind everybody that here

962
00:41:45,140 --> 00:41:50,680
in California, happy to say that there is

963
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:52,400
a fur ban in place.

964
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:56,500
As of January 1st, 2023, it is illegal

965
00:41:56,500 --> 00:41:59,820
to sell or manufacture new fur in California.

966
00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:04,020
Unfortunately, there is an enforcement issue and there

967
00:42:04,020 --> 00:42:06,300
are activists who have gone out there and

968
00:42:06,300 --> 00:42:09,940
literally Googled fur stores and gone into those

969
00:42:09,940 --> 00:42:13,020
fur stores with a tape recorder rolling and

970
00:42:13,020 --> 00:42:15,060
they're selling new fur.

971
00:42:15,140 --> 00:42:16,560
So, we've got to crack down on that.

972
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:19,000
And maybe you wanna take that one up

973
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:22,660
as your next investigation, not to give you

974
00:42:22,660 --> 00:42:23,580
any assignments.

975
00:42:23,820 --> 00:42:25,920
Everybody's an assignment editor and I hate when

976
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:27,880
people do assignments to me all the time.

977
00:42:28,300 --> 00:42:31,580
But the point is that it's a giant

978
00:42:31,580 --> 00:42:33,700
leap in the right direction, but it's gotta

979
00:42:33,700 --> 00:42:34,280
be enforced.

980
00:42:34,720 --> 00:42:36,700
It absolutely does have to be enforced.

981
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:40,040
And step one, pass the legislation.

982
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:44,820
Step two, make sure that people follow it.

983
00:42:44,940 --> 00:42:47,900
And that's why enforcement is so crucial.

984
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:52,120
And I'm happy that there are activists who

985
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:55,540
have seemed to identify certain retailers who are

986
00:42:55,540 --> 00:42:57,340
still selling real fur.

987
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:01,920
And hey, maybe a Lady Freethinker investigation is

988
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:02,960
coming up, I don't know.

989
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:05,220
But it's something that must be monitored.

990
00:43:05,540 --> 00:43:07,620
And in the meantime, we'll continue to push

991
00:43:07,620 --> 00:43:08,400
for other bans.

992
00:43:09,060 --> 00:43:12,560
There are other areas that hopefully will ban

993
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:13,420
fur soon as well.

994
00:43:13,660 --> 00:43:16,080
Progress has been slow, but we've seen that

995
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:16,660
it's possible.

996
00:43:17,020 --> 00:43:19,480
And I do believe that it is in

997
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:20,400
the future eventually.

998
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:23,280
And I wanna point out something that one

999
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:25,920
of our commenters is saying, which is a

1000
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:27,260
very apropos point.

1001
00:43:28,300 --> 00:43:30,720
When we're talking about Canada, a bill has

1002
00:43:30,720 --> 00:43:32,860
been introduced to the House of Commons to

1003
00:43:32,860 --> 00:43:35,060
prohibit fur farming in Canada.

1004
00:43:35,240 --> 00:43:37,600
In fact, Unchained TV has an entire documentary

1005
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:40,580
about this called Ending Real Fur, which I

1006
00:43:40,580 --> 00:43:41,580
urge you to watch.

1007
00:43:41,700 --> 00:43:45,000
Just go to watch.unchainedtv.com and you

1008
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:47,860
can see this documentary which premiered on Unchained

1009
00:43:47,860 --> 00:43:50,940
TV and has gotten about 100,000 views

1010
00:43:50,940 --> 00:43:51,340
so far.

1011
00:43:51,340 --> 00:43:52,540
So it's doing very well.

1012
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:55,760
But what is the situation, Vicky, in Canada?

1013
00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:58,740
Because Canada, because it's cold, a lot of

1014
00:43:58,740 --> 00:44:00,040
people use that as an excuse.

1015
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:02,020
Of course, it's no excuse.

1016
00:44:02,180 --> 00:44:04,220
People aren't wearing fur coats to the top

1017
00:44:04,220 --> 00:44:06,360
of Mount Everest or wherever they're climbing in

1018
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:07,540
cold weather.

1019
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:11,440
Synthetics are obviously far more sophisticated.

1020
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:14,360
But where does it stand in Canada?

1021
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:18,060
So we've had some, I would say, success

1022
00:44:18,060 --> 00:44:21,660
in British Columbia, which is on the far

1023
00:44:21,660 --> 00:44:26,780
east side of Canada, and, or sorry, west

1024
00:44:26,780 --> 00:44:27,080
side.

1025
00:44:27,500 --> 00:44:29,700
And yeah, so I think what we can

1026
00:44:29,700 --> 00:44:33,620
do as activists or just concerned citizens and

1027
00:44:33,620 --> 00:44:37,700
consumers is just follow the nonprofits that are

1028
00:44:37,700 --> 00:44:41,140
really working on this and Ending Real Fur

1029
00:44:41,140 --> 00:44:43,440
is one, Animal Justice is one.

1030
00:44:43,820 --> 00:44:46,340
And just, we have to think about the

1031
00:44:46,340 --> 00:44:48,700
political aspect of it and the laws and

1032
00:44:48,700 --> 00:44:51,520
just really support the nonprofits that are trying

1033
00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:52,360
to make change.

1034
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:54,920
I would like to see more bans all

1035
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:55,740
across Canada.

1036
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:58,200
Because yeah, it's a public health risk.

1037
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:01,300
There's so many reasons not to be wearing

1038
00:45:01,300 --> 00:45:01,600
fur.

1039
00:45:02,660 --> 00:45:03,640
Oh, absolutely.

1040
00:45:03,980 --> 00:45:07,320
And the pandemic risk is still there.

1041
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:13,420
I just don't understand how, despite the pandemic

1042
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:18,040
causing millions, many, many millions of minks to

1043
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:19,360
be killed.

1044
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:21,340
They would have been killed anyway, but just

1045
00:45:21,340 --> 00:45:22,740
killed on mass.

1046
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:25,100
A mass, whatever you wanna call it, a

1047
00:45:25,100 --> 00:45:26,700
genocide of these animals.

1048
00:45:27,820 --> 00:45:30,880
It's still something that is a hard sell

1049
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:33,360
for some politicians.

1050
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:36,440
It seems like what, do you ever wonder,

1051
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:38,520
Nina, what's it gonna take?

1052
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:41,160
We also, just looking at the pandemic, I

1053
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:44,660
mean, just speaking of the pandemic, it was

1054
00:45:44,660 --> 00:45:48,680
a zoonotic illness, most likely started in the

1055
00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:51,520
Wuhan wet market where they were killing many

1056
00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:55,360
different species and co-mingling blood and stacking

1057
00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:56,320
animals together.

1058
00:45:56,580 --> 00:45:58,460
Or even if you think of the outlier

1059
00:45:58,460 --> 00:46:01,360
theory of the Wuhan lab, they were torturing

1060
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:02,180
animals there.

1061
00:46:02,500 --> 00:46:05,680
It stemmed from animals and nonetheless, it doesn't

1062
00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:11,260
seem like, despite all that, our culture has

1063
00:46:11,260 --> 00:46:16,220
really woken up to the self-destructive nature

1064
00:46:16,220 --> 00:46:17,200
of animal exploitation.

1065
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:20,740
Not quite.

1066
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:24,740
Thankfully, things have improved dramatically, but we do

1067
00:46:24,740 --> 00:46:25,760
have a long way to go.

1068
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:29,800
I know before we mentioned the profit factor,

1069
00:46:30,380 --> 00:46:32,440
and the truth is that there are lobbyists

1070
00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:35,560
in the fur industry who do not want

1071
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:39,360
this trade to end because their livelihoods go

1072
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:40,220
away with it.

1073
00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:44,300
And that makes the battle in politics, especially

1074
00:46:44,300 --> 00:46:45,460
that, much more difficult.

1075
00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:50,800
And we need politicians who care less about

1076
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:55,520
lobbyists and more about morality, the truth be

1077
00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:58,080
told, to get that legislation passed.

1078
00:46:58,260 --> 00:47:00,560
And in the meantime, we need to work

1079
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:02,920
on our end to get that public pressure

1080
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:08,000
out and encourage other consumers just to turn

1081
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:09,560
away from it, to turn away from it.

1082
00:47:09,620 --> 00:47:10,800
And many already have.

1083
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:13,480
It's gonna happen.

1084
00:47:13,720 --> 00:47:15,540
I know that it's going to happen.

1085
00:47:15,820 --> 00:47:17,720
And it just takes all of our voices

1086
00:47:17,720 --> 00:47:19,140
to make it.

1087
00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:22,200
I will say, I think it requires, and

1088
00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:23,980
I'm not proud to say this, I wish

1089
00:47:23,980 --> 00:47:25,520
I didn't have to say this, but I

1090
00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:29,100
think it requires public shaming of corporations that

1091
00:47:29,100 --> 00:47:33,100
allow any of these big, big events, whether

1092
00:47:33,100 --> 00:47:37,080
it's the Super Bowl or the whatever, there's

1093
00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:40,420
obviously producers, there's gatekeepers.

1094
00:47:41,020 --> 00:47:43,520
And if somebody is hell-bent on wearing

1095
00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:47,420
fur, there's got to be consequences for that

1096
00:47:47,420 --> 00:47:48,840
in terms of public shaming.

1097
00:47:49,620 --> 00:47:51,400
We did that at one point.

1098
00:47:52,100 --> 00:47:53,880
A little group of ours went down.

1099
00:47:54,020 --> 00:47:56,980
I think it was one of the big

1100
00:47:56,980 --> 00:47:57,220
shows.

1101
00:47:57,320 --> 00:47:58,720
It was a couple of years ago, so

1102
00:47:58,720 --> 00:48:00,360
I don't wanna say which one, but there

1103
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:01,740
was somebody who was wearing fur.

1104
00:48:02,460 --> 00:48:05,800
It was advertised beforehand that this was the

1105
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:07,960
outfit, and we went down and protested right

1106
00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:08,440
outside.

1107
00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:10,540
And it did have an impact for the

1108
00:48:10,540 --> 00:48:11,200
people coming in.

1109
00:48:11,240 --> 00:48:12,480
And most of the people coming in said,

1110
00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:14,340
that's horrible, that's horrible, that's horrible.

1111
00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:17,860
But there's gotta be a concerted effort where

1112
00:48:17,860 --> 00:48:21,400
when somebody goes out of their way to

1113
00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:25,080
wear real fur, okay, at a very large

1114
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:26,940
event that is gonna have an impact on

1115
00:48:26,940 --> 00:48:29,180
people all around the world, that there are

1116
00:48:29,180 --> 00:48:32,000
consequences for that, that there is some kind

1117
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:34,520
of public accountability.

1118
00:48:35,020 --> 00:48:36,200
What do people think about that?

1119
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:36,500
Monica?

1120
00:48:39,270 --> 00:48:39,730
Yeah.

1121
00:48:41,630 --> 00:48:44,850
I think that that's wonderful, that's great.

1122
00:48:45,690 --> 00:48:49,310
Feather Phaseout actually has plans on possibly doing

1123
00:48:49,310 --> 00:48:51,770
some demonstrations next year.

1124
00:48:52,070 --> 00:48:54,290
The goal was to phase out feathers by

1125
00:48:54,290 --> 00:48:58,310
2025, so next year, doing some protests.

1126
00:48:58,790 --> 00:49:02,910
I think that where I'm at right now

1127
00:49:02,910 --> 00:49:05,090
in terms of trying to gain a following,

1128
00:49:05,530 --> 00:49:08,770
the course that I'm taking is giving people

1129
00:49:08,770 --> 00:49:12,570
the information, as much information as I can,

1130
00:49:12,890 --> 00:49:16,110
so that they just don't even want to

1131
00:49:16,110 --> 00:49:16,730
buy it.

1132
00:49:16,950 --> 00:49:19,810
I don't know what's going on with musicians

1133
00:49:19,810 --> 00:49:22,910
and concerts, like if there's a wardrobe department

1134
00:49:22,910 --> 00:49:26,510
that's encouraging the performer to wear a certain

1135
00:49:26,510 --> 00:49:27,010
thing.

1136
00:49:27,730 --> 00:49:29,630
So I can't really speak to that, but

1137
00:49:29,630 --> 00:49:34,650
with the burlesque community, the dancers choosing their

1138
00:49:34,650 --> 00:49:35,430
own outfit.

1139
00:49:36,290 --> 00:49:38,070
And so if I can just make sure

1140
00:49:38,070 --> 00:49:40,890
that everyone in the community understands, like this

1141
00:49:40,890 --> 00:49:46,250
is where feathers are coming from, and then

1142
00:49:46,250 --> 00:49:48,850
let them make the choice, because I think

1143
00:49:48,850 --> 00:49:51,070
if they have the information, they're going to

1144
00:49:51,070 --> 00:49:55,770
choose the non-feather alternative, the faux.

1145
00:49:55,770 --> 00:49:57,170
And I want to just point out, for

1146
00:49:57,170 --> 00:49:59,030
those who might be just joining us, those

1147
00:49:59,030 --> 00:50:02,010
are not real feathers taken from animals.

1148
00:50:03,370 --> 00:50:07,510
Monica's entire campaign, Feather Phase Out, is to

1149
00:50:07,510 --> 00:50:09,350
show people that, look, you can't tell the

1150
00:50:09,350 --> 00:50:10,390
difference, continue on.

1151
00:50:10,870 --> 00:50:13,030
Yeah, and the burlesque, and I'm just going

1152
00:50:13,030 --> 00:50:14,670
to speak from burlesque, because that's what I

1153
00:50:14,670 --> 00:50:17,530
know, but the dancers that I've met, deep

1154
00:50:17,530 --> 00:50:21,210
down inside, they know that they don't want

1155
00:50:21,210 --> 00:50:21,950
to use feathers.

1156
00:50:22,110 --> 00:50:24,210
They're just doing it because that's the uniform

1157
00:50:24,210 --> 00:50:26,890
of this art form.

1158
00:50:27,390 --> 00:50:29,350
And that's what everyone, they go to a

1159
00:50:29,350 --> 00:50:31,190
show and they're in the dressing room, everybody's

1160
00:50:31,190 --> 00:50:31,750
got feathers.

1161
00:50:31,790 --> 00:50:33,970
So they're just kind of doing whatever everybody

1162
00:50:33,970 --> 00:50:34,750
else is doing.

1163
00:50:35,190 --> 00:50:37,690
But I think that they know deep down

1164
00:50:37,690 --> 00:50:41,170
inside that there's something secretive about this industry.

1165
00:50:41,490 --> 00:50:44,230
If you email a company that sells feathers,

1166
00:50:44,370 --> 00:50:46,730
hey, where are the birds?

1167
00:50:46,850 --> 00:50:47,970
What's the deal with the feathers?

1168
00:50:48,330 --> 00:50:53,510
They always say the feathers come from industries

1169
00:50:53,510 --> 00:50:56,770
where the feathers would otherwise be discarded.

1170
00:50:56,990 --> 00:50:59,990
So that statement instantly makes the dancer feel

1171
00:50:59,990 --> 00:51:01,930
like, oh, well, I'm actually helping because this

1172
00:51:01,930 --> 00:51:02,450
would go in the trash.

1173
00:51:02,450 --> 00:51:03,290
But it's a lie.

1174
00:51:03,950 --> 00:51:05,390
Well, it's a lie, yeah.

1175
00:51:05,490 --> 00:51:06,770
And it's also incomplete.

1176
00:51:07,110 --> 00:51:11,070
It's a vague way to validate this purchase.

1177
00:51:11,190 --> 00:51:12,870
Like, look, it's going to get thrown in

1178
00:51:12,870 --> 00:51:13,250
the trash.

1179
00:51:13,310 --> 00:51:14,530
You might as well just buy it.

1180
00:51:14,670 --> 00:51:16,730
And so, and then the person that buys

1181
00:51:16,730 --> 00:51:19,310
it, just that's the end of the discussion.

1182
00:51:19,450 --> 00:51:20,330
Well, it was going to get thrown in

1183
00:51:20,330 --> 00:51:20,430
the trash.

1184
00:51:20,750 --> 00:51:21,710
It's not complete.

1185
00:51:21,710 --> 00:51:24,270
And so that's what I'm hoping will happen

1186
00:51:24,270 --> 00:51:27,570
with this campaign is eventually more and more

1187
00:51:27,570 --> 00:51:29,030
information's going to come out.

1188
00:51:29,110 --> 00:51:30,890
Like, let's see these birds.

1189
00:51:30,990 --> 00:51:31,850
Let's see how they're kept.

1190
00:51:31,970 --> 00:51:32,630
Let's see how they're killed.

1191
00:51:32,730 --> 00:51:34,050
Let's see how the feathers are plucked.

1192
00:51:34,090 --> 00:51:36,190
Whether the bird is alive or whether the

1193
00:51:36,190 --> 00:51:38,210
bird is dead, the feather is plucked.

1194
00:51:39,650 --> 00:51:40,050
Absolutely.

1195
00:51:40,470 --> 00:51:41,970
Okay, we only got a couple of minutes.

1196
00:51:42,210 --> 00:51:43,630
First of all, I do want to point

1197
00:51:43,630 --> 00:51:46,210
out one thing that somebody said to me

1198
00:51:46,210 --> 00:51:48,330
who was in the fashion industry, and that

1199
00:51:48,330 --> 00:51:52,290
is that the people who dress the celebrities

1200
00:51:52,290 --> 00:51:55,990
are always looking for some new angle or

1201
00:51:55,990 --> 00:51:57,550
something that's different.

1202
00:51:58,150 --> 00:52:00,270
And so it's sort of a lack of

1203
00:52:00,270 --> 00:52:05,110
imagination that they're often the ones pushing fur

1204
00:52:05,110 --> 00:52:09,790
on, or feathers, or other animal products onto

1205
00:52:09,790 --> 00:52:12,330
the celebrities because they've got to make them

1206
00:52:12,330 --> 00:52:12,970
look different.

1207
00:52:13,150 --> 00:52:15,030
I mean, when you see these red carpets,

1208
00:52:15,390 --> 00:52:16,870
it's all a big competition.

1209
00:52:16,870 --> 00:52:18,350
Who's going to be in the paper the

1210
00:52:18,350 --> 00:52:18,750
next day?

1211
00:52:18,810 --> 00:52:22,050
Who's going to be on the viral?

1212
00:52:22,190 --> 00:52:23,110
Who's going to go viral?

1213
00:52:23,490 --> 00:52:26,550
So how do we reach those designers, Vicky,

1214
00:52:26,670 --> 00:52:29,150
and those people who dress the celebrities?

1215
00:52:30,650 --> 00:52:33,490
Well, as a publicist myself, I would say

1216
00:52:33,490 --> 00:52:37,390
we need to connect with their publicists and

1217
00:52:37,390 --> 00:52:39,430
show them the really neat options that are

1218
00:52:39,430 --> 00:52:39,870
out there.

1219
00:52:40,010 --> 00:52:43,310
There is actually plastic-free faux fur as

1220
00:52:43,310 --> 00:52:43,590
well.

1221
00:52:43,590 --> 00:52:46,870
And some of it looks really outrageous.

1222
00:52:47,430 --> 00:52:48,590
It's really fun.

1223
00:52:48,750 --> 00:52:51,630
It can be sparkly and colourful, and you

1224
00:52:51,630 --> 00:52:53,790
can make really cool costumes with all of

1225
00:52:53,790 --> 00:52:54,470
these materials.

1226
00:52:55,310 --> 00:52:57,310
And so that's the same with what Monica

1227
00:52:57,310 --> 00:52:57,930
is doing.

1228
00:52:58,270 --> 00:52:59,970
We have to just show that it's possible.

1229
00:53:00,650 --> 00:53:01,370
And then, you know what?

1230
00:53:01,430 --> 00:53:03,450
It gives a good story angle to say,

1231
00:53:03,590 --> 00:53:06,730
not only is this a really unique outfit

1232
00:53:07,990 --> 00:53:10,910
and all extra and everything, but it's also

1233
00:53:10,910 --> 00:53:14,110
environmentally friendly, well, it has environmental benefits, I'll

1234
00:53:14,110 --> 00:53:14,330
say.

1235
00:53:14,830 --> 00:53:16,230
And we can talk about that.

1236
00:53:16,290 --> 00:53:17,410
That's like a news story.

1237
00:53:17,550 --> 00:53:19,170
You know, there's some good things to talk

1238
00:53:19,170 --> 00:53:19,470
about.

1239
00:53:19,550 --> 00:53:22,790
So I think our publicists and, you know,

1240
00:53:22,930 --> 00:53:25,770
whoever else is, like stylists, for example, that

1241
00:53:25,770 --> 00:53:27,770
are in charge of helping the celebrities get

1242
00:53:27,770 --> 00:53:29,210
dressed, I think they should be thinking about

1243
00:53:29,210 --> 00:53:29,670
this too.

1244
00:53:29,770 --> 00:53:31,610
Like, let's get you in the news for

1245
00:53:31,610 --> 00:53:32,190
a good reason.

1246
00:53:32,850 --> 00:53:34,450
All right, final thoughts.

1247
00:53:35,850 --> 00:53:38,170
Nina Jackal, where do we go from here?

1248
00:53:38,950 --> 00:53:41,810
I think there's a lot of hope in

1249
00:53:41,810 --> 00:53:42,330
this area.

1250
00:53:42,490 --> 00:53:45,490
This is, as someone said, a winnable campaign.

1251
00:53:45,810 --> 00:53:47,230
I think we're on the right track.

1252
00:53:47,650 --> 00:53:49,990
Everyone on this panel is doing amazing work.

1253
00:53:50,830 --> 00:53:52,310
It's been a pleasure to be here with

1254
00:53:52,310 --> 00:53:54,330
you all and just keep getting the word

1255
00:53:54,330 --> 00:53:58,570
out, keep the pressure on, and keep shopping

1256
00:53:58,570 --> 00:54:00,250
for those wonderful vegan alternatives.

1257
00:54:01,610 --> 00:54:02,170
Absolutely.

1258
00:54:03,050 --> 00:54:05,030
Monica, you've got the final word, my dear.

1259
00:54:07,130 --> 00:54:09,650
Artists, creators, people that sew.

1260
00:54:09,790 --> 00:54:11,730
If you make things, if you're an inventor,

1261
00:54:12,570 --> 00:54:14,590
this is just me getting the ball rolling

1262
00:54:14,590 --> 00:54:15,850
on faux feather fans.

1263
00:54:16,750 --> 00:54:19,890
Make a faux feather, improve on this design,

1264
00:54:19,970 --> 00:54:21,070
because I can't do it alone.

1265
00:54:21,350 --> 00:54:23,030
If we all work together, we can come

1266
00:54:23,030 --> 00:54:25,250
up with something that's really beautiful, that's plastic

1267
00:54:25,250 --> 00:54:28,690
-free, that's bird-free, compassionate, and beautiful.

1268
00:54:29,810 --> 00:54:32,190
Absolutely, and as we wrap up, I always

1269
00:54:32,190 --> 00:54:40,670
urge everyone, please download, download the Unchained TV

1270
00:54:40,670 --> 00:54:41,870
streaming app.

1271
00:54:41,970 --> 00:54:43,410
It's so easy to download.

1272
00:54:43,650 --> 00:54:45,090
You can download it for free on your

1273
00:54:45,090 --> 00:54:45,370
phone.

1274
00:54:45,450 --> 00:54:47,050
Just go to your app store or on

1275
00:54:47,050 --> 00:54:50,350
any Samsung TV or on any TV using

1276
00:54:50,350 --> 00:54:52,390
Amazon Fire Stick, a Roku device, or an

1277
00:54:52,390 --> 00:54:53,850
Apple TV device, or you can just go

1278
00:54:53,850 --> 00:54:56,830
to unchainedtv.com and watch it online.

1279
00:54:57,050 --> 00:54:57,510
Thank you.

1280
00:54:57,810 --> 00:54:58,570
Fantastic panel.

1281
00:54:58,670 --> 00:54:59,570
You're all my heroes.

1282
00:54:59,870 --> 00:55:01,450
We will see you next time here on

1283
00:55:01,450 --> 00:55:02,370
Voice of America Radio.

1284
00:55:03,210 --> 00:55:03,690
Bye.