UnchainedTV: Happy Birthday, Gene Baur, Farm Sanctuary President!

0:00 A journalist and the founder of the unchained TV free streaming network Jane Velez Mitchell. You're about to hear a secret solution to the problems that plague our world. If you want to revolutionise your health, get truly joyful, and jump to the next phase of human evolution, all it takes is one simple choice. Now here's your host, Jane Velez Mitchell. We've got some breaking news for you people. This is really important breaking news. It is Gene Bower's birthday, and you may not know Gene, but millions of people do. He is considered the father of the farmed animal sanctuary movement.

0:46 He is also even called the conscience of the food movement. So Gene Bower, sitting here with a beautiful sheet, is the co-founder and president of Farm Sanctuary Rescue Education Advocacy. There are two beautiful sanctuaries, and these animals are ambassadors, showing that farmed animals have all the feelings of a dog or a cat or even people, and that there's really only advantages in being kind to them. So without further ado, I want to welcome Gene Bower, and that's a little happy birthday music in the background.

1:32 I just want to say Gene, you are my hero. I am so honoured that you're spending an hour with us. Take it away. Where is Farm Sanctuary today? You were founded in 1986, and you have grown into a global movement, really the face of the farmed animal sanctuary movement. Yeah, well thank you so much, Gene. It's great to be with you. We go back decades, and it's wonderful to celebrate my 62nd birthday here with you. I'll also say that my birthday is actually next week, but you know that timing didn't work out, so we're doing it today, and I'm grateful for this opportunity.

2:16 So Farm Sanctuary started back in 1986, and the idea then was to document what was happening to animals in the food system, and we would routinely find living animals that were left for dead and discarded like garbage. So we started rescuing them, and we now operate sanctuaries in New York and California, where the animals are our friends, not our food, and where we encourage people to come and get to know these individuals and recognise that they're not that different than cats or dogs, that they have feelings, they have memories, they have personalities. They want to be treated with kindness, just like any other animal, or even human for that matter.

3:01 And so we have sanctuaries where animals get to enjoy their lives, and where people get to visit them. We do educational work. We go to schools and other places to raise awareness about the many harms of our food system, and about the benefits of eating plants instead of animals, and we advocate for reforms in our food system. We're taking a resource-based approach to system change, meaning that we're trying to shift resources, things like the billions of dollars of government subsidies that are spent every year, and we want to move those away from factory farming to support a healthy and just plant-based food system.

3:41 So we do rescue work, we do educational work, and we do advocacy work. Well, you are just so extraordinary, and you know, I was looking over some of the videos in preparation for our interview, and what what's really struck me was the complexity, the complexity of these rescues you do, and how much work, and how much coordination, and how many people, and it's just extraordinary. So it's not just about running a couple of sanctuaries with some happy animals, it's about getting animals out of these terrible situations, by hook or by crook, and then doing all the complicated things, like transportation.

4:23 Absolutely, Michael in Los Angeles, your thoughts for Gene Bauer. Yes, hi Gene. First, I want to wish you a very happy birthday, and thanks for all you've done for many animals for many, many years. My question is, I've always been intrigued about your experience selling vegan hot dogs back in the 80s in the parking lot at Grateful Dead concerts. How was that like? Because a lot of their fans I know are free spirits to begin with, but those were the really early days of veganism, and I was wondering how well you did selling them. Also, where did you even find vegan hot dogs back in those days?

5:07 Thank you. Well, that's a great question. Do you mind if I play a little clip first that really takes us back to those days, and then we're going to approach that question. Sure, absolutely. Yes. Hi everybody, this is Gene Bauer from Farm Sanctuary in the van that started Farm Sanctuary, and we used to sell veggie hot dogs at Grateful Dead shows out of this van, and we actually have some old bumper stickers here from those old days. Grateful Dead ticket from like, was it 1983 even, but this was some of the history of this van, and the Grateful Dead are still playing.

5:53 Farm Sanctuary is still trucking. Wow, that was incredible. Tell us about those early days. Yeah, so when we started back in 1986, we were an all-volunteer organisation, and to raise funds, we'd sell vegan hot dogs outside of our van at Grateful Dead shows, and it was a very open-minded crowd. I would say among Deadheads, there's probably a higher percentage of vegetarians and vegans than in the general population, and also just people more open-minded than most, and so it was a very receptive crowd, a very receptive audience, and some great ideas actually came out of conversations there.

6:34 In fact, our first bumper sticker was based on what one of these Deadheads came up and said to me. He said, you know what would be great on a bumper sticker? If you love animals called pets, why do you eat animals called dinner? And we agreed, and that was our first bumper sticker. If you love animals called pets, why do you eat animals called dinner? And I'm also really happy to say that, you know, the Grateful Dead, or the Dead and Company, I should say, are still playing, and they recently have had a residency at the Sphere in Las Vegas, and Farm Sanctuary was invited to have an outreach table there. So I was recently in Las Vegas doing outreach to people going to the Grateful Dead shows, and a guy came up to me and reminded me and remembered buying a veggie dog from us back in the 1980s in Wisconsin.

7:27 So folks that care about animals and that choose not to eat animals are very passionate, and finding vegan food back in the 80s was a lot harder than it is now. So many of the people that came to our meatless hot dog van were very excited to be there, and they still remember it to this day. And you had quite a beard on you there. Wow, look at that. That was back in 1986 or 7 or 8, somewhere in those in those years. Yes. Wow, that's extraordinary. And your Farm Sanctuary is the first farmed animal sanctuary and set basically the template. Now there are hundreds, maybe even thousands around the United States, certainly thousands around the world.

8:12 We've got more callers. Paige in Los Angeles, your question or thought for Gene Bauer? Well first of all, I may have seen you at the Dead concert I went to in 1989. Man, that dates me. Thank you for bringing awareness then. Gene, hi, happy birthday. And my question for you is, how can we do better as activists in 2024? What are your thoughts? Thank you. No, well thank you for the question, and I hope we did cross paths back in 89, and we'll cross paths again in the future.

8:54 So for activists, you know, people who care about this earth, and for those of us who care about how humans mistreat other animals, you know, some days can be pretty challenging to just, you know, feel the weight of the cruelty, the violence, the destruction, the needless harm that we cause through our factory farming system. But it's important not to get sort of dragged down into that, not to dwell into that, not to run those images over and over in our minds to the extent we can, to the extent we can not run those around in our minds. For me, I try to dwell in the things that I can do instead of being upset with the things that I can't do.

9:41 And every day I make choices about what I eat, and I've been a vegan since 1985, so I'm always choosing to eat plants instead of animals. But I'm also increasingly now trying to support businesses, like vegan restaurants, for example, or local farmers that are growing plant-based foods, and local businesses that are supporting a vegan lifestyle. So we vote with our dollars, and for those of us with the ability to do that, I strongly encourage that. And for folks for whom it might be harder to go completely vegan, just reducing the amount of animal products we are engaged in is important. And I think as vegan activists, it's important to celebrate any small step in the right direction, to celebrate incremental improvements and changes, and to not let perfect be the enemy of the good.

10:36 We need to be practical while also maintaining our ideals, but working to find common ground with others and go forward together in a more compassionate way. So as a younger activist, I was a little less sort of accepting of people who weren't going as fast as I thought they should go, for instance. And as time has gone, I've become, I think, more empathetic with how, for some people, it takes time. And we just need to celebrate every step. And I think by celebrating small steps like, say, Meatless Mondays, for example, we then encourage people to take further steps.

11:18 I think if somebody stops eating meat on Monday, and they, for example, tell a vegan activist, I'm going meatless Monday, you know, a younger version of me might have said, well, what about Tuesday and the rest of the week, you know, and I still may think that, but articulating that and sort of dismissing this person's desire to do better, I think, can have negative consequences in terms of their ability and their enthusiasm to make changes. So celebrate positive steps, build on those positive steps. And I think that's a really effective way to create change. We've got another caller, Nilo Farr in Dallas, Texas, your question or thought for Farm Sanctuary's Jean Bauer.

12:04 Built a legacy for animal protection work. Thank you so much. For the sake of argument, the small welfare approach, approaches such as Meatless Mondays or Journeys Toward Veganism, one can argue that these welfare moves have actually turned the animal protection backwards. And that's why, you know, we are in 2024 and we are experiencing massive systematic exploitation and killing of animals. So in my opinion, I'm with your younger years, but yeah, if you could elaborate a little bit more on that, coming from an abolitionist approach, these welfarist moves have actually taken us backwards.

13:02 Thanks. Now, good provocative question. Yes. No, thank you for the question. I think it's important for us to have these kinds of conversations. And I think there is an argument to be made for how less bad systems like giving animals more space, for example, preventing certain of the worst cruelties can be used to promote more animal consumption. And I think the industry is very quick to greenwash and to make conditions sound better than they are. So we need to be very mindful of that. But I also believe that working on these laws over the years to elevate concerns about animals in the food system has helped to raise awareness.

13:48 And it is true that we are still facing a global crisis in terms of the billions of animals who are suffering, also in terms of how more and more animal agriculture is occurring in more parts of the world. And this is a real problem, but also the waste. So the number of animals raised in the U.S. has consistently increased. But one of the reasons for that is not necessarily that people in the U.S. are eating more animals, but that there is more food waste and also that more animal products are being exported. And so it's complicated to make an assertion that these welfare reforms have actually caused more animals to be harmed.

14:37 But I do believe that we need to be very mindful about messaging around welfare reforms. So when we have, for example, work to ban certain cruel confinement systems, we say that animals that are raised in systems where they have more space are less bad, but they're not good. And I think we always need to be clear that eating plants instead of animals is ultimately what we think makes the most sense. And we need to continuously advocate for people to eat plants instead of animals. So it's a nuanced situation, and we work to end cruelty, but also to create a vegan world.

15:21 And we need to be mindful about how we message around welfare reforms and make sure that those do not become a new, still inhumane normal. The normal that we want to create is a vegan world. So it's a process. And I think these welfare reforms are part of that process. And what we are doing now at Farm Sanctuary is, in addition to supporting laws to end some of the worst cruelties, we're really leaning into structural changes in the food system to try to bring resources out of factory farms into plant-based agriculture.

16:03 So that's an area where we're putting a lot of energy now and a lot of focus. We want to work with farmers and encourage them and support them in producing plant foods instead of animal foods. We need to continue educating consumers and addressing and challenging myths that factory farms have put out forever. Myths like factory farming is an efficient way to feed the world. It absolutely is not. Myths like we need meat for protein or cow's milk for calcium. Those are myths and that's not true. So we need to continue to challenge these notions that agribusiness continuously puts out there and then demonstrate solutions through plant-based agriculture.

16:46 All right. And we've got so many callers. Let's zip through these. Very excited that so many people are calling in. Lindsay and Tarzana, then followed by Sarah. Go ahead, Lindsay. Jane, happy birthday. I want to say happy birthday. And it's an honour to speak to you. My question, actually, Paige touched on it and also the last caller. So I'm going to move to my second question. A lot of people are kind of moving off the grid. And I think there's a tendency to people wanting to start these micro sanctuaries. And Ethan, what would be your advice to them? Are you for it?

17:27 And what advice could you give them? And also for future sanctuary owners, you know, young people coming up, what is your advice to them? Thank you. No, thank you for the question. I think it's wonderful that more people want to provide sanctuary and safety for animals who have experienced trauma and suffering. My advice to large sanctuaries, small sanctuaries, new sanctuaries, any sanctuaries is don't get over your head. Start small, be very thoughtful and only do what you can manage well, because unfortunately, sometimes sanctuary operators get over their head and then difficult times ensue.

18:15 And we have to acknowledge and recognise the fact that as sanctuary operators, we basically live in an ethical impossibility. Ethically, we must rescue every single one of the billion of animals, but practically it's impossible. So we need to live with that ethical impossibility, do the best we can, help the individuals we can and give them the best lives possible at sanctuary, but then also work on systemic reforms and structural changes. So ultimately, there's not going to be a need to rescue animals in the first place. So that's that's so I would say start slow and be very, very thoughtful about not getting over your head.

18:58 All right, Sarah, your question or thought for G. Bauer? Oh, my question actually is about education and everybody talks about the future of our, you know, the children and ones that are in school. And how do you get the message about the farmed animals and all of the stuff? How do you get that to the kids or how do you get them to do field trips or what kind of programmes do you think exist for these animal sanctuaries? Thank you and happy birthday. No, thank you very much. And yeah, I think we really need to do an awful lot to educate adults and also the next generation. And at Farm Sanctuary, we have a very active humane education programme where people can go online and download content for schools or for other educational purposes and also visiting the sanctuary is something we encourage, you know, children and adults and everybody to do to get to know these animals as individuals, as friends, not as food.

19:59 But education is absolutely important. And in addition to education about the sentience of other animals, I think we need to do education about the benefits of eating plants instead of animals, about the inefficiency of animal agriculture, how we can feed more people with less land and fewer resources through plant based agriculture instead of animal agriculture. I think we need to raise awareness about the many harms of the animal agriculture industry. So that is also part of education. And we do this through programmes in schools, but also through the media, through getting op -eds published. We've recently done a fair bit to raise awareness about avian influenza, bird flu, which has killed close to 100 million birds in the U.S. so far.

20:47 And so we've gotten that message out in mainstream publications. So we'll continue doing education in schools and also well beyond schools. Wow. OK, our next caller is Mick Davoudian in Los Angeles. Your question or thought, Mick? Good afternoon. Thank you, Jane. Hi, Gene. I've met you a couple of times in the past and it's great talking to you today. So happy birthday in advance of next week. You know, you and I are pretty much the same age. I went vegetarian as a teenager, but I didn't go vegan until about 12 years ago.

21:27 To put it simply, I was just ignorant to what was happening in the dairy and egg industry. So my first question, if you don't mind, I have a two parter. My first question is, how did you find out at such a young age about veganism? So you were selling vegan hot dogs and so on. And then as a follow up to, I think Lindsay asked a question about micro sanctuaries. So many well-meaning people start sanctuaries without necessary knowledge, experience, preparation and, of course, most importantly, finances. And as you said, they end up in a bit of a hole. And then those of us who love animals are last minute scrambling to help. I'm wondering, I would actually love to see a programme, maybe such as Farm Sanctuary, who has resources, come up with a playbook of some sort, maybe, you know, starting a dummy, starting a sanctuary for dummies, let's say.

22:19 What are your thoughts on this? Yeah, thank you very much for that question. People who are interested in starting a sanctuary, I encourage to reach out to us here at Farm Sanctuary and we'll be happy to provide advice and support and and also cautionary tales about what should or should not be done. And, you know, you're raising this question about or reminding me about the vegan hot dogs we sold at Grateful Dead shows. And I forgot to respond to that part of the earlier question, like, where did we get these hot dogs? They were actually Loma Linda Linguettes and Loma Linda is connected to the Seventh-day Adventist Church, which promotes plant-based eating.

23:00 I think they take that from an interpretation of the Bible. But wherever there was a Seventh-day Adventist Church, we could, you know, often find these veggie dogs and they came in cans. So they were very easy to travel with. And your other question about, you know, my going vegan at a fairly young age, I early on just started really immersing myself in this and started learning about animal agriculture writ large and ultimately came to realise that what happens to cows on dairy farms or chickens and egg production is sometimes worse than what happens to other animals that are raised specifically for meat.

23:43 And then after being exploited in dairy production, for example, the cows are also ultimately slaughtered. In the case of chickens exploited for egg production, they're also killed when they're no longer profitable. So those are among the worst, most abusive industries. And so I did notice that early on. And so I went vegan pretty much right after I went vegetarian. We've got Tiffany in Los Angeles. Your question or thought for Gene Bauer as he approaches his birthday. Yes, thank you for taking my call, Jane and Gene. Happy birthday. And I love seeing the old photos way back in the day.

24:23 You were so ahead of the times. I wanted to ask you, what's something that that's been a challenge or sort of a hardship that you weren't expecting that would be surprising to us or funny with running a sanctuary? Well, I think that over the years, what I've observed is just how sort of foreign this concept of farm animals as friends is to some people. And it's been really difficult to see how they're seen just as commodities, not as living, feeling creatures and how sometimes veterinarians have been very slow to provide veterinary care for sick cows or chickens or pigs because economically, they didn't think it made sense.

25:13 And one of the stories I often tell is about a calf who I found left for dead at a stockyard. He was sent to the stockyard. On the day he was born, he was still wet from afterbirth and he was dying of hypothermia. I brought him to a nearby veterinarian and she said, what are you wasting your time for? It makes no economic sense. And I had to really convince her that, you know, to me, this was not about economics. This was about trying to help an individual. She finally gave him the treatment he needed. And I'm happy to say he recovered and he his name was Opie. He ended up weighing close to three thousand pounds and living with us for about 18 years. So but veterinarians who are ideally situated to provide care for animals and to understand animals are sometimes desensitised in veterinary school.

26:01 And I studied agricultural economics at Cornell University. I got a master's degree there and I went into that programme as a vegan to really get an understanding of how ag students are indoctrinated. And I was in an animal science class and I watched how these young students were being acculturated to accept certain cruelties to animals. And I write about this in my book Farm Sanctuary, Changing Hearts and Minds About Animals and Food. But just how we are such social animals and we're very much impacted by the social ecosystem we are in. And and so that is a challenge.

26:42 And and it's the the the reality we live with. And so we need to start creating a new kind of ecosystem, a new way of interacting with other animals. And this is where I think sanctuaries are so important because we walk the talk of looking at other animals as our friends, not our food. They are fellow earthlings. They're co-inhabitants of this earth, co-creators of our ultimate reality. Right. And so how do we live with them in a mutually respectful way? And that concept is something that is very foreign to many people, unfortunately. And there are also biases that we have in society that are sometimes invisible to us and negative stereotypes about other animals.

27:28 And a couple of examples are when we call somebody a pig, it's a put down for the person, but it's an inherent put down of a pig or pigs. Being called a turkey similarly is not a compliment. So there are these subtle ways that we routinely denigrate victims of our abuse. And and this this has become normalised. So we're just that's one of the big challenges is to undo that indoctrination. Well, very well said. We're going to have our last caller and then cut it off because I have some questions myself. Annie in Sherman Oaks, your question for Jean Bauer of Farm Sanctuary.

28:11 Hi, thank you, Jane. Thank you so much for the show and happy, happy birthday, Jean. I met you multiple times and your fur babies that you've rescued are incredible experience. I just can't get enough. I just have a parting anxiety when I have to leave. But I know they're in amazing hands. One of the things that bothers me is we know the fact that animal agriculture has very strong hold like a mob on our government. How and in what way we can expedite to to do this change now.

28:53 And I know subsidy is enormous part of it. And subsidies are taxed billions of dollars from our tax is used against. All right. And the animals. Good question. How do we end the subsidies? Thank you, Annie. Yes. No, thank you for that question. So right now, the Farm Bill is being discussed in Washington, D.C. This legislation allocates hundreds of billions of dollars. And so we're urging that that money stop going to factory farms. And we're also just trying to defend certain humane laws that we've gotten passed. But it's going to be a long term. Struggle, I'm sorry to say, and so there are some things that we have a lot more control over, and that includes our own dietary choices, so each of us every day can make important choices that do ultimately make a difference, especially when they start adding up.

29:48 So eating plant based and living a vegan lifestyle and encouraging others to do so or to reduce their consumption of animal products are all very important steps we can make. And also, we live in a democracy which is a participatory sport. So we also do need to engage there to the extent we can. At the very least, we should write to our elected officials, let them know our concerns and what we feel should be done from a policy standpoint. And to start really digging into agricultural policy, whether it has to do with animal cruelty, climate issues, resource issues, environmental destruction, and weigh in and advocate for a plant based food system instead of an animal agriculture food system.

30:38 And people can go to the Farm Sanctuary website, farmsanctuary.org, and there's a take action button there where people can click on that take action button. It'll take you to a page with a few different things you can do to make a difference. Absolutely. And join Farm Sanctuary. Well, we're going to have one bonus caller, Michelle, in Los Angeles, and that's it because I got some questions for you to go ahead, Michelle. Hi, Jane. Hi, Jane. Happy birthday in advance. It's so inspiring to listen to you speak, and I just wanted you to know, Jane told me a while back that you have this thing that we need to meet people where they are.

31:20 And I wanted to know from you, I have lots of friends and family who are not vegan. And every time I talk to them, just recently, one of my besties, he was like, I can't talk to you. You're too intense. And I keep thinking, like, we need to meet them where they are. And that's what I'm trying to do. What are some tips that you have done with your family and friends who are not vegan or vegetarian? Now, those are all very important questions and challenges many of us face as vegans. So one of the things I do is I take long walks and I try to take deep breaths when I start getting upset about the harm that human beings cause to the earth and to other animals.

32:05 And when a loved one or somebody I care about is participating in this, it can sometimes be hard to know how best to deal with it. But I think at the bottom of all of this is our ability and our desire to empathise with others. And when we talk about speaking to people where they are on their own journeys, it requires that we have empathy to understand where they are on their own journeys and understand why perhaps, for whatever reason that we don't know, they're not able to make these choices or not willing to consider these issues.

32:47 And I think one of the underpinning factors is fear. People are afraid. They're afraid of change. They're afraid that they're not going to get the nutrients they need because they've been sort of bombarded with messaging from the meat and dairy industries. They're afraid that they're not going to enjoy the food. So I think whatever we can do to dispel some of those fears and to provide support. And sometimes this is as simple as bringing a great vegan dish to their home or to an event and showing them how tasty vegan food can be. That's one way to help assuage some of those fears. But it's a complicated issue. And for us as activists, it's important to recognise how our communication and how our approach affects others and to try to communicate in a way that's ultimately going to engage people and interest them instead of turning them away.

33:47 And so, again, getting back to empathy, what is important to this other person I'm speaking with? Are they worried about their health? If so, as vegans, we have an awful lot we can share with them that will be helpful. Are they concerned about the environment and what's happening with the climate crisis? Again, there's an awful lot we can share with them that will be helpful and relevant to them. Do they care about animals and the suffering animals experience? Again, there's a lot we can share there. So sharing relevant, useful information with others is, I think, really important. And sometimes it means that we have to take a walk or take a deep breath and understand, OK, what is it that is important to this other person and do the best we can to reach them in an empathetic way that speaks to them where they are.

34:39 And over the years, I've had some heated conversations with family members and others. And as time has gone, I still have the same feelings that I've always had. But I try to communicate in a way that's going to be more engaging and is going to open up opportunities to find common ground. And if we can find common ground, we have an awful lot to build from. So finding commonality instead of differences, I think, really important. Oh, wow. That is so beautifully said. Let's take a brief break and introduce you to the platform you're watching on Shane TV. So it's a vegan Netflix.

35:21 OK, that's the craziest thing I've ever heard. I love Unchained TV. Your life will change. It's just that easy. Unchained TV has all sorts of content for everybody. Unchained TV changed my life. Unchained TV is crushing it. I love Unchained TV. Unchained TV is my go to. Unchained TV. Who knew? Unchained, baby, yeah. And just to remind you, we are talking to Gene Bauer, the co-founder and president of Farm Sanctuary.

36:01 And you're just looking at one of the hundreds of rescue videos that they've put out because they've done thousands of rescues. So, Gene, I was hoping that you would tell us a little bit about this rescue of 10 cows and how Farm Sanctuary moved into action when you found out there was a farm in Vermont. There were 10 cows left behind when the farm was sold. People were telling the woman who bought it, go to send them to slaughter. She didn't want to. She called you and you moved these animals out and saved their lives. Tell us this one.

36:42 Yes, well, you know, we have a very robust shelter operation. We have transported animals across the country, which is one of the things that we're able to do when there are animals in need in one area and then a home in another area. And as you alluded to, so often what happens when it comes to farm animals is they are not seen as living, feeling creatures. They are seen as commodities, as saleable products. And so when they're no longer profitable for a farmer or whoever, they're oftentimes just taken to slaughter, which is the routine.

37:22 And for Farm Sanctuary, these animals are not just commodities. They're sentient beings. They're living, feeling individuals who deserve kindness. And so in this case, it was wonderful to bring them to the sanctuary from Vermont to Alabama to enjoy a good life and to be valued for the individuals they are instead of being looked at only as commodities. So that's fundamental to the message at Farm Sanctuary and with our rescue work is that these animals, their lives matter. And we need to do everything we can to help honour that, provide sanctuary and ultimately in our big dream to replace slaughter with sanctuary.

38:04 Well said. I do have to be a little provocative here because it's one thing to be patient with people, but the clock is ticking. Climate change is getting exponentially worse and we're just in the appetiser section. The main course hasn't hit us. You have the news media that is completely co-opted by the meat dairy pharmaceutical industry. They basically, in my opinion, just play catastrophe porn. You know, people dying, houses going up in flames, floods, fires. But when there's a solution that is very obvious, that is even in a paper of note, I want to put this one up for a second.

38:50 New York Times, save the planet, put down that hamburger. Researchers examined the diets of 55,500 people and found that vegans are responsible for 75 percent less in greenhouse gases than meat eaters. So it doesn't take a highly qualified mathematician to realise, well, if everybody went plant based, we could collectively reduce our greenhouse gas emissions by 75 percent, thereby effectively solving the climate crisis. Nobody picked up on this story. Not CNN, not MSNBC, not any of the major networks. So they are ignoring the solutions.

39:32 You have the accelerating problem of climate change. And so where does patience factor in when you're dealing with a ticking, essentially a ticking time bomb? No, it's a really important question, Jane. And I'm completely with you in terms of the urgency of this. And I think we need to be very explicit that animal agriculture is causing all of these enormous, disastrous consequences. And like you also said, mainstream media did not pick this up. And that's why I'm so glad about your network here, where you are reaching people with a message that needs to be heard.

40:16 And I think that this kind of media programming needs to get out a hell of a lot more than it is. So please go to Unchained TV and encourage other people to to support this. But but I think that how do we create change? I think it's going to be a diverse, diverse approaches. And so Farm Sanctuary has one approach. There are other organisations that might be doing things a little bit more edgy and risky. And I fully support that. I think that we need this, that and many other approaches to creating change. We need to appeal to the widest audiences possible, but really do need to impress upon folks just how urgent these issues are.

40:57 And so you have individual animals whose lives are horrible every day. That's an urgent problem. You have the climate crisis. You have the loss of ecosystems. You have wildlife that's that's that's suffering and dying. You have people who are eating food that's making them sick. You know, there are so many issues tied into our food system and the way we eat in this country. And so in one sense, we have many opportunities to reach wide audiences. But I think there's different messages that will appeal to different audiences and we just need to put them all out there. And but I hear you on the urgency and and I just want to do whatever I can to the best to the best possible effect.

41:44 And I'm always willing to to learn and make adjustments as I as I learn more. But but I hear you. This is an urgent situation and we need all hands on deck. And, you know, the bird flu is a growing threat. I just read an article in The New York Times today that really outlined that it has jumped to human beings and that basically the essence of the article is that the government isn't really responding to the potential of crisis and that it could be growing sort of amongst us without us even realising that we just got through a pandemic.

42:24 And we know how horrific it is. And it was zoonotic no matter what, where you think it started in a lab or at a wet market. Animals were being exploited and it it doesn't come out of thin air. These are zoonotic problems. And now we have yet another one on the heels of the covid pandemic rising up as a potential threat. You'd think that would get the attention of lawmakers. But nevertheless, it seems like the lawmakers in charge of the Farm Bill right now, which is going to decide the government's position and the amount of subsidies to animal agriculture for five years going forward, that they are still not getting the message.

43:09 They're still marching in lockstep like factory farming is the best thing since sliced bread when it's creating all these threats. You're 100 percent right. You know, bird flu has killed nearly 100 million birds in this country. It's jumped from birds to cows and it's jumped from cows now to people. And, you know, it's really good that there is some media coverage, but there needs to be an awful lot more. And I am happy to say that that I was able to get three op eds published working with my team here at Farm Sanctuary, one on MSNBC, one in the San Francisco Chronicle, one in the Des Moines Register, all talking about bird flu and how when we treat other animals badly like we do in the food system, then there are these greater threats of diseases jumping from other animals to human beings.

43:59 But like you say, agribusiness is very linked into government agencies and they do tend to see things similarly and to defend the status quo. So we need to continue working to undo the status quo, challenging irresponsible conduct in the animal agriculture industry and also building alternatives. And this is where some of this all protein stuff, I think, could be very positive. I think also more sustainable, regenerative plant-based agriculture is critically important. So if we can create access to land for farmers who want to do plant-based instead of exploiting animals, that is an important way to shift resources out of animal agriculture to plant-based agriculture.

44:45 And again, the subsidies from the USDA, unfortunately, the vast majority go now to support the factory farming industry. But we can start shifting a million here, five million there, and over time, incrementally, hopefully build that up. But we're going up against the system that's very entrenched and it's going to take time. It's going to take time. So we'll work in Washington, we'll work at state capitals. But a lot of the real change actually happens at the local level with people actually growing food themselves. There's a food not lawns movement where people are actually starting to grow crops and vegetables where they used to have a lawn.

45:28 And if you think about the resource of land and lawns, we have more land in lawns in this country than we use to grow fruits and vegetables. Now, that's kind of crazy. If all those lawns were growing produce, we would have an abundance in communities and areas where we probably need a lot of healthy plant based food and we could also create jobs instead of a gardener basically pushing a lawnmower and putting down fertiliser. The gardener would actually be a gardener and become a farmer. And that's skilled labour that should be recognised as well. And then you have enough of these gardeners growing food instead of lawns and communities.

46:09 Now you can have a local food hub or a farmer's market and business opportunity. So we have there are opportunities in front of us, but a lot of this is going to happen at the local level where you just have resilience and creativity and innovation and communities working together. That that's the type of thing that gives me a lot of hope. Yeah. And Jeff Bezos, one of the richest men in the world, recently, I heard reportedly gave one hundred million dollars to alternative protein development. We know that Bill Gates said publicly he was on CNN saying we have to transition to synthetic meat. Unfortunately, he was mocked right on camera, which is disappointing. But the point is that some of the smartest, richest people in the world are starting to realise what's obvious, that this system is completely unsustainable.

46:57 The clock's ticking and we have to do something soon. I want to get back to your core mission is to realise that these animals are friends, not food. Let's meet two pigs who were rescued by Farm Sanctuary and learn a little bit about their personalities. In general, they're very, very similar to puppies. Lizzie is definitely the more exuberant of the pair, is very inquisitive, very curious, while Robbie is definitely more laid back and calm. Lizzie and Robbie were both originally rescued from a cruelty case by the FLSPCA.

47:38 The animals there were malnourished. They lacked basic shelter, food and water. And as the FLSPCA did not have a proper setup for long term pig care, they came to us. When they first came to the shelter, they were both incredibly sweet and gentle, which most likely comes from the fact that they'd only really been around humans for most of their life. So they're very, very social, very sweet, love nothing more than each other, never very far away from one another. As much as they love each other, they also very much enjoy their fellow pig friends.

48:19 Often at night, they'll all be in a big snuggle puddle together in the straw, which is very sweet. They also love interactions with their humans. They love scratches and belly rubs and obviously snacks. Big fans of snacks. And I want to say that that video is streaming on Unchained TV. We are very, very thrilled that Farm Sanctuary was one of the first to say, oh, you want to create a channel for us on Unchained TV? Absolutely. And that's what I love about Farm Sanctuary. Just absolutely generous on all fronts to share the information so that we can all move together. So, Gene, clearly those pigs are actually smarter than dogs.

49:03 Not that intelligence should be the criterion that we use to decide whether or not to torture a being. But the point is that they are so much like dogs and Americans love their dogs. How do we bridge that gap? Dogs, I think, sometimes are the gateway drug to, and I use that as a humorous term, the gateway to compassion to other animals. No, I think it's true. Many people who spend their lives with dogs or with cats get to know them as individuals with personalities who actually dream. Right. When our dogs or cats are sleeping, we see their face twitching, their paws twitching. They're dreaming.

49:43 You know, when you go into the pig barn and the pigs are sleeping, they're also dreaming and their faces are twitching and their paws are moving. So, you know, they're not that different. And which animals we consider to be our friends and which ones we consider to be our food are really quite arbitrary. Like in some countries, they don't eat cows, for example. And in other countries, they eat cats and dogs. And people in the U.S. are appalled that other people in other countries would eat cats and dogs. But at the end of the day, these are all living, feeling beings. They all deserve to be treated with kindness. And if we can live well without killing other animals and without harming other animals, why wouldn't we?

50:26 And that's really what the sanctuary is about. It's just trying to demonstrate that these animals share this earth with us. They want to enjoy their time here like we all do. And it's also true that when we treat other animals with kindness, it actually benefits our own lives. You know, being at a sanctuary is a much more joyful, positive experience than visiting a slaughterhouse. You know, you go into these slaughterhouses or these factory farms and the stress and the fear and the pain is palpable. And you come to a sanctuary and it's really the opposite. The sanctuary is a salve, an alternative to this slaughter industry.

51:08 And I think most people would rather be at a sanctuary than at a slaughterhouse. Most people would rather eat food that is nourishing instead of food that makes us sick, like this standard American diet. And most people would rather live on a planet where we have clean air, clean water, a healthy climate, healthy ecosystems. And the solution to all of these issues is to eat plants instead of animals. I mean, that's the thing that, as we only have a couple of minutes left, that that makes me so perplexed and frankly, a little bit, sometimes I'm not hopeful because the answer is so obvious and otherwise brilliant people, otherwise brilliant people can't see what's staring them right in the face, is that there is one behaviour that is causing a huge percentage of the problems that's facing our world.

52:09 If you talk about human world hunger, well, depending on how you calculate it, either a huge or most of the food we're producing is fed to the 80 billion plus land animals that we're killing every year for food. So if we directed the 85 percent of soy that's fed to farmed animals and similar amounts of corn and directed to starving people, we could solve world hunger. You know, you're talking about climate change. We've already discussed just on the surface that animal agriculture is a massive contributor to climate change and is part of the solution with rewilding, which would trees absorb carbon.

52:49 And, you know, you're talking about preventable lifestyle diseases like heart disease and cancer. Those are connected. Processed meat is officially cancer causing. Red meat is a likely carcinogen. You know, you just want to pull your hair out when people who understand the nuances of things that are so complex that go right over my head can't see that right there is the solution staring us in the face to most of our problems, not to mention societal violence, because violence breeds violence. And when we become callous to the violence we inflict daily on animals, then we open the door to violence against humans.

53:31 Your final thought. We've got about a minute left. I'm I'm 100 percent with you there, Jane. It is perplexing. And, you know, we are living in a way that is bad for ourselves, bad for other animals, bad for the planet. It's violent, it's cruel and it's completely unnecessary and it's totally irrational. But human beings are not rational animals. Unfortunately, we're very social animals. We tend to do what those around us do. And sadly, we've seen what that's done over history, the enormous social harms that certain groups have perpetuated against other groups, whether human or non-human. That's happening now with animal agriculture. And the good news is each of us can make a difference by changing the way we eat.

54:16 But also each of us can be ambassadors for a way of living that is more compassionate and ultimately more human and healthy and more empathetic. I think one of the worst problems with animal agriculture, and you alluded to it, is how violence creates violence. When we treat those without power badly, that callousness and that lack of empathy tends to spread. But on the other hand, kindness can also become contagious and spread. So that's the hope I hold on to. Well, that's a great way to end this broadcast. I am so honoured that you took time to speak to us. You are our hero. We love you. And we do hope you come back soon when we've achieved a plant-based world.

55:00 Thank you so much, everybody. Come back next time here on Unchained TV. This episode was brought to you by Unchained TV. Unchained TV is a nonprofit organisation producing plant -based content built with tips and tricks to spice up those healthy veggies, grains and legumes. For more information on Unchained TV productions, just visit UnchainedTV.com.