UnchainedTV: Have We Gotten Climate Change All Wrong?

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Welcome to the Unchained TV podcast with me, your host,

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Jane Velez Mitchell.

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We have breaking news for you.

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Now we all know the planet is in crisis.

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Don't need me to tell you that.

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Global warming is creating so many problems.

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There's climate anxiety and that climate crisis

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is closer and closer.

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We hear all the time about fossil fuels,

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how terrible fossil fuels are.

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But now there is a new paper suggesting

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fossil fuels are not the main culprit,

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that animal agriculture is the leading cause

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of climate change.

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Now, this is an extraordinary development

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because it essentially means that everything

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that's being done with the COP UN conferences

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is missing the point and that we are not putting

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the real culprit of climate change on trial.

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We have the scientist who has just published

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this paper with us today, Dr. Gerard Wedderburn-Bishop,

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and he says he has the climate solution.

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Now, I wanna put up the paper.

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This looks very wonky.

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Increased transparency in accounting conventions

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could benefit climate policy,

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a just published research paper.

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But what if we told you that this is the key

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to saving the planet?

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What if I told you the gentleman you are about to hear from

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has the real solution to climate change

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because he is documenting the real cause,

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the leading cause of climate change,

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which is being denied by the powers that be.

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Dr. Wedderburn-Bishop, give us, in plain English,

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your thesis.

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What are you saying, sir?

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Thank you, Jane.

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Yes, and I thought I'd actually do

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something different today and tell you the origin story

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about how this came to be.

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And I think it, well, I just realized really,

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it probably explains better the concepts

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that we've worked through to come up with this result,

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that animal agriculture is the leading cause

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of climate change.

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Over 10 years- Go ahead.

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Yes, okay.

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Thank you.

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And thank you for your work, Jane.

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You do amazing work and greatly admire what you do.

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So thank you.

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And thank you for having me on the show.

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Yeah, so over 10 years ago, I left work.

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My job was to map deforestation

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for one of the state governments in Australia, Queensland.

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And we were watching as 2,500 acres of bushland

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was being cleared every day.

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And over 90% of that was for grass-fed industries.

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So I sort of, this had been building in me

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to watching this, and the destruction is unbelievable.

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You know, the noise of the big dozers,

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the clanking of the chain,

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they literally pull, you know, 60 foot, 100 foot trees.

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They pull them out of the ground,

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literally with this chain.

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It's so destructive, so efficient at converting

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from forest to grazing land.

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And so this gets to you after a while.

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It gets to your soul.

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It makes you realise we can't keep doing this.

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So I left work after decades in government,

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federal and state.

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I then was headhunted by a group called

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Beyond Zero Emissions.

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And their job was to look at Australia's emissions

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of agriculture and land use,

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and see how they could come down to zero.

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And we did a plan.

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We did a plan that was published in 2014.

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And that is the origin story of these papers

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that have just been published.

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So I'll tell you the discoveries that we made

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that led to these papers.

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So first of all,

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my job was to delve into Australia's greenhouse accounts.

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Okay, every country does an analysis,

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an assessment of their emissions,

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and which gases and what causes.

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And they submit that to the United Nations each year.

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Now, these inventory rules were devised decades ago,

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and they have controlled,

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and they actually heavily influence

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how we think about climate change.

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And they control, in other words, our policy response,

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what we do about it.

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We know there's this much climate change,

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this much emissions going in the atmosphere.

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So what do we do about it?

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So my job was to delve into the dark arts, if you like,

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of greenhouse gas accounting,

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and to look at Australia's national emissions

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and our inventory.

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So this struck me.

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Now, tell me what you think of this.

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When we burn fossil fuels, gas, oil, coal,

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we produce carbon dioxide, right?

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Now, when we cut down forests, we do the same thing.

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In Australia, they bulldoze the trees together,

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they call it stick raking.

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They push them together, then they burn it,

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and they burn it, and they burn it,

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until it's all gone, it's all ash.

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So either burning fossil fuels or burning forests

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produces carbon dioxide.

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Now, everyone knows that, that's no surprise.

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But the interesting thing was this,

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was that the people doing the deforestation,

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like the industries driving that,

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the grass-fed industries, basically,

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they were being gifted offsets off their emissions

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to the order of a discount of 2 3rds of their emissions.

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Now, deforestation releases an awful lot of carbon dioxide,

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but they were gifted this discount of 2 3rds.

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Now, it turns out that that's the way we count it.

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We count fossil fuels fully,

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and we count deforestation only a third or so

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of the emissions.

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Okay, I'm gonna jump in,

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because we gotta break it down.

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So you're saying a new study finds

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that agriculture has caused three times more warning

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than fossil fuels,

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and then you say that animal agriculture

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causes more climate change than any other human activity.

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Now, you have done a video on this

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that is also on Unchained TV.

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Let's play the clip.

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If you wanna simplify it,

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which is what we're trying to do today,

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it's that they're accounting it wrong, bad accounting.

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You know how people get in trouble

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for doing bad accounting when it comes to money?

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Well, this is bad accounting when it comes to climate change.

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Let's listen, and then we'll discuss on the other side.

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All right.

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Agriculture and climate change.

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This video explores the three developments

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in climate accounting and climate science

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that upend our understanding

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of which human activities cause climate change.

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The first is consistent carbon accounting,

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the subject of a 2024 paper.

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By IPCC convention,

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we measure the full carbon dioxide emission

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from fossil fuels,

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but only about a third the emissions from land clearing.

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This is inconsistent because all carbon emissions

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are equally absorbed by growing vegetation and the oceans,

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with the remainder staying in the atmosphere.

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The airborne fraction affects our climate.

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But emissions from both of them behave the same way

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in the real world.

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So why account for them differently?

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Using consistent accounting,

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we find that land clearing

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has emitted more carbon than fossil fuels.

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Extensive land users, therefore, become heavy emitters.

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And the most extensive land users are animal agriculture.

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So basically what you're saying, sir,

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is that the powers that be,

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including the United Nations,

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are doing bad accounting

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when it comes to the causes of climate change,

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under-reporting animal agriculture

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because they're under-reporting forest destruction

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as opposed to fossil fuels.

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And now it's very interesting that you should say that

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because there have been articles

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that have questioned the policies of the IPCC.

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I will play those in a second,

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but tell us in people terms,

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why on earth, given that our earth is in crisis,

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would they do bad accounting

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when it comes to what's causing climate change?

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Yes, thanks, Jane.

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There are actually good reasons

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for doing what they did early on.

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You see, when the rules,

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when the conventions were developed over three decades ago,

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they knew that most of the emission of carbon

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from any source was actually drawn down

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by other growing vegetation.

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So nature has been doing an amazing job

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at sucking down our CO2.

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And so what they reasoned was this,

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that they reasoned that what's left in the atmosphere

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is the part of that emission

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that actually influences climate.

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What's drawn down by vegetation is locked up.

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Therefore, it does no longer influence climate.

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And there is logic in that,

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except that exactly that same process

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happens to fossil fuel carbon dioxide.

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When we burn fossil fuel carbon dioxide,

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most of it is drawn down into vegetation,

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but we count it differently.

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So as you said, you hit the nail on the head.

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It's just due to dodgy accounting

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and it's accounting rules are hidden.

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Most of us don't delve into that level

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of how we add up, how we look at our emissions,

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but that's the problem.

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Okay, so let me go to an article that I wanna highlight.

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The meat industry blocked the IPCC's attempt

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to recommend a plant-based diet.

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A leaked draft revealed how the meat industry

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is obstructing efforts to curb climate change.

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So, you're saying, well, this was done in good faith.

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They did this because they thought it made sense at the time

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but that article implies that they know full well,

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the IPCC is the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.

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It's the UN's leading climate change agency.

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They have those infamous COP conferences

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where they get together all over the world

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and nothing much is accomplished.

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Climate change is just getting worse.

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Now, if they were so right and you were so wrong,

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climate change would be getting better

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because they keep having these climate conferences,

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but it's just getting worse.

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And even mainstream media is starting to describe

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these COP conferences as a bit of a joke.

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Now, you're saying, well, you know,

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they were good-hearted and they're blah, blah, blah,

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but this article implies that there may be financial motives

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or industry pressure at work to suggest strongly

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to the UN, no, do not recommend a plant-based diet.

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I can tell you that organizations like the Plant-Based Treaty

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have been fighting like crazy to get just plant-based meals

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served at these COP conferences.

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And we've had a reporter at the Glasgow COP conference

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go in and be hard-pressed to find

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there were a couple of measly vegan items.

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They're serving meat.

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So is it a question of meat eaters

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don't wanna change their habits?

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Is it a question of the meat industry

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putting pressure on the United Nations?

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Not to make a switch and say animal agriculture

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is the leading cause.

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I would guess it's a combination of those factors.

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What do you say, Doctor?

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Yeah, I think you're dead right, Jane.

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The industries know full well what's really going on,

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and they've known it for a long time.

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And they've hidden behind the rules, if you like,

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the conventions.

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In fact, they try to double down

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on pulling the wool over our eyes.

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But you may have noticed that, well, in Australia, at least,

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the green beef and the climate-neutral beef claims

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that they were making just a few years ago,

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they've realized that this is just not quite the case.

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So they've silently withdrawn those claims.

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But they still push ahead with the disinformation,

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and they still push hard.

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You see, the government, the United Nations body

269
00:14:04,730 --> 00:14:08,130
that looks after climate is a really interesting

270
00:14:09,790 --> 00:14:11,830
combination of two faces.

271
00:14:12,530 --> 00:14:16,230
You see, there's dozens, in fact, hundreds of scientists

272
00:14:16,450 --> 00:14:19,090
who work together on climate science.

273
00:14:19,410 --> 00:14:22,350
And they've put out these big reports on climate science,

274
00:14:22,410 --> 00:14:24,550
what is the science, what's happening,

275
00:14:24,550 --> 00:14:27,510
and trying to get a better understanding

276
00:14:27,510 --> 00:14:28,290
of what's going on.

277
00:14:28,610 --> 00:14:30,010
And that science is solid.

278
00:14:30,470 --> 00:14:32,550
However, from that science,

279
00:14:32,630 --> 00:14:36,110
they produce policy documents and guidelines,

280
00:14:36,230 --> 00:14:37,370
which are what we're talking about here,

281
00:14:37,410 --> 00:14:39,630
the guidelines on how to count emissions.

282
00:14:40,090 --> 00:14:43,990
And those documents are actually policy documents.

283
00:14:44,170 --> 00:14:45,990
They're political documents.

284
00:14:46,810 --> 00:14:51,490
So that's where the lobbying and the influence comes in.

285
00:14:51,810 --> 00:14:57,170
You know, the meat and dairy industries lobbies,

286
00:14:57,530 --> 00:15:01,950
in fact, outnumber the fossil fuel lobbies

287
00:15:01,950 --> 00:15:03,990
at some of these climate conferences.

288
00:15:04,330 --> 00:15:08,210
So they know that truth will come out eventually,

289
00:15:08,490 --> 00:15:12,390
but they're increasingly trying hard to keep a lid on it.

290
00:15:12,830 --> 00:15:13,690
But that's the problem.

291
00:15:15,090 --> 00:15:19,630
If the truth comes out eventually, it may be too late.

292
00:15:20,110 --> 00:15:22,050
Now, according to Sir David Attenborough,

293
00:15:22,270 --> 00:15:24,730
who has a great documentary called Breaking Boundaries,

294
00:15:25,270 --> 00:15:27,450
there's only something like nine boundaries.

295
00:15:27,830 --> 00:15:29,570
Like once we destroy the ice caps,

296
00:15:29,690 --> 00:15:32,510
we can't call amazon.com or go on our phones

297
00:15:32,510 --> 00:15:33,710
and order new ice caps.

298
00:15:34,070 --> 00:15:35,990
Once species are extinct,

299
00:15:36,070 --> 00:15:37,670
aside from some crazy scientists

300
00:15:37,670 --> 00:15:39,410
trying to play God with the wolves,

301
00:15:39,630 --> 00:15:41,970
we're not gonna be able to get these species back.

302
00:15:42,310 --> 00:15:47,390
These boundaries are being broken at lightning speed.

303
00:15:47,930 --> 00:15:50,870
So it's not a question of the truth will come out.

304
00:15:51,070 --> 00:15:52,730
The truth has to come out soon.

305
00:15:53,130 --> 00:15:54,950
There are some who say we're already past

306
00:15:54,950 --> 00:15:56,010
the point of no return.

307
00:15:56,690 --> 00:15:59,770
And part of the problem is the mainstream media

308
00:15:59,770 --> 00:16:02,170
is not covering this issue.

309
00:16:02,550 --> 00:16:03,990
I wanna give you an example.

310
00:16:04,770 --> 00:16:06,330
There was an incredible article

311
00:16:06,330 --> 00:16:09,210
in the New York Times in 2023.

312
00:16:09,550 --> 00:16:11,150
So now just about two years ago,

313
00:16:11,410 --> 00:16:14,590
and it says, save the planet, put down that hamburger.

314
00:16:15,110 --> 00:16:18,490
Researchers examined the diets of 55,500 people

315
00:16:18,490 --> 00:16:19,950
and found that vegans are responsible

316
00:16:20,270 --> 00:16:24,930
for 75% less in greenhouse gases than meat eaters.

317
00:16:25,370 --> 00:16:28,990
This was a Oxford University study.

318
00:16:29,110 --> 00:16:35,690
So not some little side thing or some irrelevant group.

319
00:16:35,850 --> 00:16:37,150
This is Oxford University,

320
00:16:37,230 --> 00:16:39,650
one of the greatest institutions,

321
00:16:39,790 --> 00:16:41,490
educational institutions in the world.

322
00:16:42,090 --> 00:16:44,550
Now, nobody picked up on this article.

323
00:16:44,650 --> 00:16:46,490
And this article wasn't like the top.

324
00:16:46,750 --> 00:16:49,710
Listen, this is essentially the solution to climate change.

325
00:16:50,030 --> 00:16:52,650
If everybody reduced their greenhouse gas emissions footprint

326
00:16:52,650 --> 00:16:57,090
by 75%, then collectively we would reduce

327
00:16:57,090 --> 00:17:00,710
human induced greenhouse gas emissions by 75%.

328
00:17:00,710 --> 00:17:02,670
You'd think this would be on the front,

329
00:17:03,050 --> 00:17:04,069
right at the very top.

330
00:17:04,170 --> 00:17:05,310
Hey, we've got a solution.

331
00:17:05,730 --> 00:17:09,310
You'd think that CNN and NBC and CBS and ABC

332
00:17:09,790 --> 00:17:11,490
and all these places would cover it.

333
00:17:11,550 --> 00:17:14,190
No, not one pickup.

334
00:17:15,869 --> 00:17:17,970
See, advertiser-based mainstream media,

335
00:17:18,109 --> 00:17:20,069
which is why I started Unchained TV.

336
00:17:20,410 --> 00:17:23,270
I started Unchained TV because I was

337
00:17:23,270 --> 00:17:25,050
in the mainstream media for 30 years.

338
00:17:25,790 --> 00:17:28,030
You don't have to have somebody knock on your door

339
00:17:28,030 --> 00:17:29,570
and say, hey, don't talk about this.

340
00:17:29,930 --> 00:17:31,270
All you see is the advertisers.

341
00:17:31,430 --> 00:17:33,670
The advertisers tell you who's keeping the lights on

342
00:17:33,670 --> 00:17:35,210
at the news media, okay?

343
00:17:35,270 --> 00:17:37,670
And it's mostly fast food and pharmaceuticals.

344
00:17:37,670 --> 00:17:39,150
And they are one in the same

345
00:17:39,150 --> 00:17:41,150
because people wouldn't need all those drugs

346
00:17:41,150 --> 00:17:42,970
if they weren't eating all the bad food

347
00:17:42,970 --> 00:17:44,270
that's giving them high cholesterol,

348
00:17:44,470 --> 00:17:47,650
heart disease, obesity, cancer.

349
00:17:48,510 --> 00:17:50,890
Nobody talks, nobody in the media talks about the fact

350
00:17:50,890 --> 00:17:54,490
that processed meat is officially declared cancer causing

351
00:17:54,490 --> 00:17:55,950
by the World Health Organization.

352
00:17:57,030 --> 00:17:59,190
Nobody, they never mention it.

353
00:17:59,730 --> 00:18:01,650
I mean, you really have to dig hard to find that.

354
00:18:02,230 --> 00:18:05,450
So when we say, oh, you know,

355
00:18:05,450 --> 00:18:09,130
there's these accounting errors, are we underplaying it?

356
00:18:09,330 --> 00:18:11,150
Is this, I don't wanna be conspiratorial,

357
00:18:11,250 --> 00:18:13,790
but is this a conspiracy to keep the truth

358
00:18:13,790 --> 00:18:16,990
about climate change from us at our own expense?

359
00:18:17,290 --> 00:18:20,750
Because everybody's gonna suffer eventually,

360
00:18:21,190 --> 00:18:23,370
even the executives at the meat industry.

361
00:18:23,830 --> 00:18:26,850
If the planet becomes unhabitable for humans

362
00:18:26,850 --> 00:18:31,030
because it's just too damn hot, they will be affected too.

363
00:18:31,470 --> 00:18:34,210
I mean, is this mass slow suicide?

364
00:18:36,450 --> 00:18:39,030
Yes, you're dead right, Jane.

365
00:18:39,210 --> 00:18:42,290
The planetary boundaries that we've busted through

366
00:18:42,290 --> 00:18:44,410
that we know we've way overstepped,

367
00:18:45,290 --> 00:18:47,130
six of the nine planetary boundaries,

368
00:18:47,270 --> 00:18:48,650
we're already over the limit.

369
00:18:49,450 --> 00:18:52,650
And the greatest driver in at least five of those

370
00:18:52,650 --> 00:18:55,790
is actually agriculture, the greatest driver.

371
00:18:55,930 --> 00:18:56,950
That's well-recognized.

372
00:18:57,430 --> 00:19:00,670
But as you say, it's just not coming out.

373
00:19:00,750 --> 00:19:02,050
Everyone targets fossil fuels.

374
00:19:02,190 --> 00:19:03,890
If you stop someone in the street and said,

375
00:19:03,890 --> 00:19:05,750
what's causing climate change?

376
00:19:06,110 --> 00:19:08,530
They would say carbon dioxide and fossil fuels.

377
00:19:08,970 --> 00:19:13,690
But the fact is, it's cutting down the three trillion trees

378
00:19:13,690 --> 00:19:15,150
that we have on planet Earth.

379
00:19:15,370 --> 00:19:18,310
It's releasing all that methane that we have,

380
00:19:18,430 --> 00:19:21,150
methane that in the short term

381
00:19:21,150 --> 00:19:25,350
is the biggest lever we have actually of controlling climate.

382
00:19:26,030 --> 00:19:30,810
But the methane just, it paused for a while

383
00:19:30,810 --> 00:19:32,150
just after the turn of the century.

384
00:19:32,150 --> 00:19:34,830
The methane in the atmosphere paused for a while

385
00:19:34,830 --> 00:19:36,790
and everyone was saying, oh, this is wonderful.

386
00:19:36,870 --> 00:19:38,470
We don't have to worry about methane anymore.

387
00:19:38,950 --> 00:19:41,510
But the trouble, after a few years, it just kept going up.

388
00:19:41,570 --> 00:19:43,850
And now it's going up more steeply than ever.

389
00:19:44,530 --> 00:19:48,090
And the interesting thing is that they don't know exactly,

390
00:19:48,170 --> 00:19:49,170
they can't put their finger on

391
00:19:49,170 --> 00:19:50,550
where this methane's coming from.

392
00:19:50,630 --> 00:19:52,810
But there was a report came out

393
00:19:52,810 --> 00:19:56,090
in one of the Australian universities just last year

394
00:19:56,090 --> 00:20:00,730
that said that they looked at slaughterhouses

395
00:20:00,730 --> 00:20:03,570
across Australia and they looked at numbers of animals.

396
00:20:03,890 --> 00:20:05,850
Australia has tight regulations.

397
00:20:06,030 --> 00:20:07,490
They have an agency that counts

398
00:20:07,490 --> 00:20:09,050
all the agricultural statistics.

399
00:20:10,010 --> 00:20:13,130
And they were saying there's so many cattle in Australia,

400
00:20:13,250 --> 00:20:14,210
so many sheep, et cetera.

401
00:20:14,450 --> 00:20:17,930
But this study looked at how much meat is being produced

402
00:20:17,930 --> 00:20:20,770
and all of the stats about the animals.

403
00:20:21,250 --> 00:20:25,370
And they found that the number of animals could be under,

404
00:20:25,610 --> 00:20:29,790
of beef cattle could be undercounted by 70%.

405
00:20:30,730 --> 00:20:31,710
And that's Australia,

406
00:20:31,810 --> 00:20:34,390
one of the most regulated countries in the world.

407
00:20:34,870 --> 00:20:37,430
So you, and it's because the farmers

408
00:20:37,430 --> 00:20:38,610
were hiding their numbers.

409
00:20:39,630 --> 00:20:43,430
They didn't, they pay taxes based on the number of cattle.

410
00:20:43,490 --> 00:20:46,410
So they don't want to declare the full number of cattle.

411
00:20:46,770 --> 00:20:48,130
And if that's happening in Australia,

412
00:20:48,210 --> 00:20:50,850
it's got to be happening in many other countries.

413
00:20:51,170 --> 00:20:54,050
So all this methane and all the trees

414
00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:56,830
and carbon dioxide emitted there.

415
00:20:56,830 --> 00:21:02,730
And yet, as you say, we're still being told, look away.

416
00:21:03,630 --> 00:21:04,530
Look away.

417
00:21:04,670 --> 00:21:06,130
This is a real problem.

418
00:21:06,930 --> 00:21:09,070
And we're only, and papers like these

419
00:21:09,070 --> 00:21:10,010
that have come out recently.

420
00:21:10,370 --> 00:21:13,310
And mind you, my two papers are getting a lot of traction,

421
00:21:13,610 --> 00:21:16,470
which I'm very pleased to see in science circles,

422
00:21:16,550 --> 00:21:17,830
because that's where it starts.

423
00:21:18,170 --> 00:21:19,830
It's got to start in the science

424
00:21:19,830 --> 00:21:22,730
for the group think to change.

425
00:21:23,110 --> 00:21:25,370
And I think it might be getting that traction.

426
00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:29,170
So these are interesting times.

427
00:21:29,350 --> 00:21:31,370
We're starting to open our eyes

428
00:21:31,370 --> 00:21:35,690
to the true effect of what we're doing.

429
00:21:35,930 --> 00:21:37,710
What influences climate change?

430
00:21:37,910 --> 00:21:39,410
And biodiversity, as you say,

431
00:21:39,790 --> 00:21:43,290
and nutrient pollution and deforestation

432
00:21:43,290 --> 00:21:48,030
and water cycles and ocean dead zones and water pollution.

433
00:21:48,770 --> 00:21:50,050
All of those things,

434
00:21:50,750 --> 00:21:55,490
the biggest cause of those things is animal agriculture.

435
00:21:56,230 --> 00:21:56,570
It's well known.

436
00:21:57,050 --> 00:22:01,290
We're talking to Dr. Gerard Wedderburn-Bissup,

437
00:22:01,630 --> 00:22:03,530
who has published this paper.

438
00:22:03,850 --> 00:22:05,970
And, you know, it looks sort of innocuous

439
00:22:05,970 --> 00:22:08,430
and not very dramatic,

440
00:22:08,690 --> 00:22:12,150
but it literally could be the key to saving our planet,

441
00:22:12,890 --> 00:22:15,530
saving the human race

442
00:22:15,530 --> 00:22:17,770
and all the other species on this planet.

443
00:22:18,150 --> 00:22:20,450
And it simply says increased transparency

444
00:22:20,450 --> 00:22:24,350
and accounting conventions could benefit climate policy.

445
00:22:24,650 --> 00:22:26,750
And these papers are written

446
00:22:26,750 --> 00:22:29,110
just because they're scientific papers

447
00:22:29,110 --> 00:22:31,130
in a very wonky fashion.

448
00:22:31,670 --> 00:22:34,010
I mean, if I were writing the headline

449
00:22:34,010 --> 00:22:37,030
as somebody who worked in news, even tabloid at times,

450
00:22:37,430 --> 00:22:40,210
I would say, hey, wake up human race.

451
00:22:40,410 --> 00:22:45,350
We've put the wrong culprit on trial for the climate crisis.

452
00:22:45,350 --> 00:22:49,170
And the real killer is sitting in the gallery laughing,

453
00:22:49,910 --> 00:22:51,310
but we can't do that.

454
00:22:51,590 --> 00:22:54,130
So we're trying to break it down for you

455
00:22:54,130 --> 00:22:58,630
and tell you why this paper is so absolutely extraordinary.

456
00:22:59,450 --> 00:23:02,470
And the three reasons are, well, first,

457
00:23:02,590 --> 00:23:05,350
we've already covered one, bad accounting.

458
00:23:05,410 --> 00:23:07,730
And that's sort of the overarching reason.

459
00:23:08,130 --> 00:23:11,830
They're not counting the burning of trees

460
00:23:11,830 --> 00:23:13,450
and the destroying of forests.

461
00:23:13,570 --> 00:23:15,010
And correct me if I'm wrong,

462
00:23:15,010 --> 00:23:15,970
I'm no scientist,

463
00:23:16,270 --> 00:23:19,290
but the bottom line is trees absorb carbon.

464
00:23:19,590 --> 00:23:21,910
If you destroy all the trees

465
00:23:21,910 --> 00:23:24,150
and you give planet earth a buzz cut,

466
00:23:24,450 --> 00:23:28,070
there is not gonna be the ability to absorb that carbon.

467
00:23:28,430 --> 00:23:31,190
That is a lost opportunity.

468
00:23:31,750 --> 00:23:33,890
So I wanna ask you about that.

469
00:23:34,450 --> 00:23:37,330
Is part of the problem that it's like,

470
00:23:37,490 --> 00:23:40,270
if it doesn't exist, we don't count it.

471
00:23:40,270 --> 00:23:43,850
The opportunity cost, we have destroyed,

472
00:23:44,950 --> 00:23:47,170
well, you can tell me what percentage

473
00:23:47,170 --> 00:23:50,810
of planet earth's forests for cattle grazing

474
00:23:50,810 --> 00:23:55,710
and to grow food to feed 92 billion animals

475
00:23:55,710 --> 00:23:56,890
we kill every year.

476
00:23:57,150 --> 00:24:00,670
And unfortunately, the number of animals being killed

477
00:24:00,670 --> 00:24:04,550
continues to rise to mind boggling levels.

478
00:24:05,570 --> 00:24:09,230
So is that part of the accounting problem

479
00:24:09,230 --> 00:24:11,490
that we've destroyed all these forests

480
00:24:11,490 --> 00:24:13,130
over thousands of years, really,

481
00:24:13,630 --> 00:24:18,550
but accelerating right in the last 200 years, certainly.

482
00:24:19,090 --> 00:24:20,910
And because those forests aren't there,

483
00:24:21,350 --> 00:24:22,690
they're not absorbing carbon,

484
00:24:22,870 --> 00:24:25,450
which is not allowing...

485
00:24:25,450 --> 00:24:26,810
If you can't absorb carbon,

486
00:24:26,910 --> 00:24:28,470
then the carbon remains in the atmosphere.

487
00:24:28,970 --> 00:24:31,590
But does that make it trickier to calculate that?

488
00:24:33,650 --> 00:24:38,070
Yes, the climate science is actually going ahead

489
00:24:38,070 --> 00:24:39,930
in leaps and bounds at the moment.

490
00:24:40,370 --> 00:24:42,430
We've got these new measures to measure

491
00:24:42,430 --> 00:24:45,650
the impact of each gas, which I've used in the paper,

492
00:24:46,430 --> 00:24:48,190
rather than the old measures

493
00:24:48,190 --> 00:24:50,610
that look at the time of emission.

494
00:24:51,090 --> 00:24:53,610
We've got a lot better understanding

495
00:24:53,610 --> 00:24:55,190
of atmospheric chemistry.

496
00:24:55,490 --> 00:24:57,950
So we know that when we release methane,

497
00:24:58,550 --> 00:25:01,010
we produce all these downstream gases

498
00:25:01,010 --> 00:25:02,990
and further warming.

499
00:25:04,090 --> 00:25:05,930
But at the same time,

500
00:25:05,930 --> 00:25:08,210
we're still using the outdated accounting.

501
00:25:08,830 --> 00:25:11,070
There are two other factors

502
00:25:11,070 --> 00:25:13,610
apart from the dodgy accounting of trees.

503
00:25:13,610 --> 00:25:14,870
We're gonna get to that in a second.

504
00:25:15,090 --> 00:25:16,030
Let me get to this.

505
00:25:16,270 --> 00:25:18,330
Gene just got here.

506
00:25:18,510 --> 00:25:19,810
So the industrial development

507
00:25:19,810 --> 00:25:22,450
and A plus billion using fossil fuels

508
00:25:22,450 --> 00:25:24,590
has no negative effect on the atmosphere.

509
00:25:25,170 --> 00:25:27,030
Am I understanding what he is saying?

510
00:25:27,530 --> 00:25:30,110
Essentially, I think Gene is challenging you,

511
00:25:30,190 --> 00:25:34,670
saying, hey, fossil fuels, all that smoke going out.

512
00:25:34,670 --> 00:25:36,530
I don't think he's saying that.

513
00:25:36,910 --> 00:25:40,490
He's saying it's certainly got problems,

514
00:25:40,630 --> 00:25:44,390
but it is not the leading cause is what he's saying.

515
00:25:44,850 --> 00:25:48,250
Can you clarify and answer her challenge, doctor?

516
00:25:49,130 --> 00:25:49,490
Yes.

517
00:25:50,270 --> 00:25:54,010
Yeah, Gene, you're dead right.

518
00:25:54,110 --> 00:25:55,910
This is what most of us think.

519
00:25:56,430 --> 00:25:57,670
And the reason for that

520
00:25:57,670 --> 00:26:01,150
is because we follow the government line.

521
00:26:01,540 --> 00:26:04,530
Now, the other interesting part,

522
00:26:04,650 --> 00:26:08,890
the third factor in this paper that we just looked at,

523
00:26:09,350 --> 00:26:11,690
the third factor that makes a huge difference

524
00:26:11,690 --> 00:26:15,270
as to what has caused the climate change

525
00:26:15,270 --> 00:26:19,710
we're now experiencing is another dodgy accounting.

526
00:26:20,850 --> 00:26:23,110
And that is that we, up until now, we haven't,

527
00:26:23,390 --> 00:26:25,090
well, when we burn fossil fuels,

528
00:26:25,190 --> 00:26:28,510
we create carbon dioxide, which warms the planet,

529
00:26:28,510 --> 00:26:30,790
but we also release aerosols.

530
00:26:31,650 --> 00:26:34,650
If you've ever been to a big industrial city,

531
00:26:34,810 --> 00:26:38,350
particularly in Asia, Europe's cleaned up their act.

532
00:26:38,450 --> 00:26:41,550
They had these gray skies that were causing acid rain.

533
00:26:41,870 --> 00:26:43,990
North America's cleaned up their act.

534
00:26:44,170 --> 00:26:45,730
They're cleaning their skies.

535
00:26:46,590 --> 00:26:49,810
But in the big industrial cities in Asia,

536
00:26:49,810 --> 00:26:53,030
you might see this white smog or gray smog

537
00:26:53,030 --> 00:26:54,650
that just hangs over the city.

538
00:26:54,970 --> 00:26:57,930
It irritates your sinuses and your eyes.

539
00:26:57,930 --> 00:26:59,530
And it's aerosols,

540
00:26:59,690 --> 00:27:01,750
and it's produced from burning fossil fuels,

541
00:27:01,990 --> 00:27:07,390
like mostly things like coal and dirty diesel,

542
00:27:07,990 --> 00:27:09,670
which the shipping uses.

543
00:27:10,390 --> 00:27:13,470
But these are really interesting,

544
00:27:13,810 --> 00:27:15,450
and they're just uncounted.

545
00:27:15,690 --> 00:27:16,690
They're off the books.

546
00:27:17,630 --> 00:27:20,210
The aerosols are cooling emissions.

547
00:27:20,290 --> 00:27:22,510
They reflect the sun's rays.

548
00:27:22,810 --> 00:27:24,810
So the aerosols cause cooling.

549
00:27:25,450 --> 00:27:28,430
And they're incredibly efficient and effective.

550
00:27:29,070 --> 00:27:32,910
And they have prevented, they have masked, if you like,

551
00:27:33,330 --> 00:27:35,810
three quarters of the warming from fossil fuels.

552
00:27:36,350 --> 00:27:38,690
So yes, we've produced an awful lot

553
00:27:38,690 --> 00:27:39,810
of fossil fuel emissions,

554
00:27:40,350 --> 00:27:43,090
which is in the atmosphere, still, some of it.

555
00:27:43,710 --> 00:27:45,910
But we've also produced a lot of masking

556
00:27:45,910 --> 00:27:49,370
that has cooled nearly a degree of warming.

557
00:27:50,990 --> 00:27:56,680
Let me jump in and clarify this,

558
00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:58,480
because this is really complicated.

559
00:27:59,100 --> 00:28:02,220
So you're saying as part of fossil fuels,

560
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:04,720
as part of fossil fuels,

561
00:28:05,540 --> 00:28:07,180
when fossil fuels are released,

562
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:08,840
all the smoke, right?

563
00:28:09,140 --> 00:28:10,160
Oh, it's burning our eyes.

564
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:12,380
There's also a cooling element

565
00:28:12,380 --> 00:28:15,080
within that fossil fuels that goes out,

566
00:28:15,460 --> 00:28:18,200
and that cooling element is called aerosols?

567
00:28:19,540 --> 00:28:20,780
Yes, exactly right.

568
00:28:20,940 --> 00:28:24,520
And up until now, we just have not counted those aerosols.

569
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:26,020
Okay, now I wanna jump in

570
00:28:26,020 --> 00:28:28,900
and play your clip on that in your video,

571
00:28:29,260 --> 00:28:30,920
and then we're gonna discuss it more.

572
00:28:31,340 --> 00:28:31,960
Pay attention.

573
00:28:32,220 --> 00:28:34,560
This is like an SAT test, all right, people?

574
00:28:34,980 --> 00:28:35,840
I'm no scientist.

575
00:28:36,540 --> 00:28:39,300
But if you think, if we can simplify it

576
00:28:39,300 --> 00:28:41,600
so that the general public can understand it,

577
00:28:41,940 --> 00:28:43,160
that's the first step.

578
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:44,500
Because right now, this is all

579
00:28:45,580 --> 00:28:47,040
going over everybody's head

580
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:48,120
and nobody's paying attention

581
00:28:48,700 --> 00:28:50,740
while we are getting to the point of no return

582
00:28:50,740 --> 00:28:53,020
in the climate crisis, all right?

583
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:55,780
This is extremely important

584
00:28:55,780 --> 00:28:57,780
that we focus on the fact

585
00:28:57,780 --> 00:29:00,680
that within the fossil fuels,

586
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:04,140
there's something called aerosols that also cools.

587
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:08,860
So it's kind of like reducing the impact

588
00:29:08,860 --> 00:29:10,060
of the fossil fuels.

589
00:29:10,500 --> 00:29:12,180
Correct me if I'm wrong, okay?

590
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:13,960
But that's not counted.

591
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,680
So all that's counted is the negative part of fossil fuels,

592
00:29:18,060 --> 00:29:20,200
whereas the aerosols are not counted.

593
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:24,820
Therefore, that continues to exaggerate

594
00:29:24,820 --> 00:29:27,180
fossil fuels' impact on climate change.

595
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:29,520
Now, with that little background, watch this,

596
00:29:29,580 --> 00:29:31,140
and then we're gonna discuss it on the other side.

597
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:33,980
The third change is inclusive accounting,

598
00:29:34,620 --> 00:29:37,520
including both heating and cooling emissions.

599
00:29:38,500 --> 00:29:41,140
The paper that explores these last two developments

600
00:29:41,140 --> 00:29:43,220
was published in February, 2025.

601
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:45,840
So let's take a closer look at these two.

602
00:29:46,060 --> 00:29:49,060
The IPCC has published effective radiative forcing

603
00:29:49,060 --> 00:29:53,840
of 11 gases that show warming caused by each gas

604
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:56,020
from 1750 until 2020.

605
00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:00,820
The aviation industry routinely uses ERFs

606
00:30:00,820 --> 00:30:03,180
because it's similar to agriculture,

607
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:06,280
a combination of long and short-lived emissions

608
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:08,720
and other atmospheric interactions.

609
00:30:09,180 --> 00:30:13,300
We can see the warming from each gas in the IPCC diagram.

610
00:30:14,020 --> 00:30:17,660
This is carbon dioxide, methane, nitrous oxide,

611
00:30:19,060 --> 00:30:23,280
halocarbons, and others, including cooling aerosols.

612
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:26,660
ERF boosts the relative warming from methane

613
00:30:27,100 --> 00:30:28,440
by a factor of three.

614
00:30:28,860 --> 00:30:32,780
Cooling aerosols are emitted when we burn fossil fuels.

615
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:34,800
Their impact is strong.

616
00:30:35,180 --> 00:30:38,400
They have prevented nearly a degree centigrade,

617
00:30:39,100 --> 00:30:42,360
masking three quarters of all fossil fuels' warming.

618
00:30:42,780 --> 00:30:45,940
Emissions of each gas are then allocated to sectors,

619
00:30:45,940 --> 00:30:49,320
and we can see in this graphic how each gas contributes

620
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:52,120
to each sector's warming or cooling.

621
00:30:52,740 --> 00:30:56,280
Above the line is heating, and below the line is cooling.

622
00:30:56,940 --> 00:30:59,960
The combined warming caused by each sector

623
00:30:59,960 --> 00:31:01,360
is the black dot.

624
00:31:01,860 --> 00:31:04,260
This is fossil fuels, which is responsible

625
00:31:04,260 --> 00:31:06,680
for 18% of warming up to 2020.

626
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:11,420
This is agriculture, making up 60% of global warming,

627
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:13,620
and within the agriculture sector,

628
00:31:13,620 --> 00:31:18,520
animal agriculture is responsible for 53% of global warming.

629
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:21,920
Animal agriculture is therefore the leading cause

630
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:23,060
of climate change.

631
00:31:24,820 --> 00:31:29,000
This is, I gotta do my breaking news banner all over again.

632
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:30,580
This is breaking news.

633
00:31:31,020 --> 00:31:33,260
This is probably the most important discussion

634
00:31:33,260 --> 00:31:35,280
happening on planet Earth right now

635
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:37,440
because if we don't have a planet,

636
00:31:37,580 --> 00:31:39,140
well, the planet will always survive us,

637
00:31:39,340 --> 00:31:41,300
but if we don't have a livable planet,

638
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:43,020
then nothing else matters.

639
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:46,860
And there's a new paper that this doctor,

640
00:31:47,220 --> 00:31:49,920
scientist has put out that makes the case

641
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:54,240
that the impact of fossil fuels is being exaggerated

642
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:56,540
because it's not including the aerosols

643
00:31:56,540 --> 00:31:59,000
that cool it down, all right?

644
00:31:59,380 --> 00:32:04,380
And the impact of animal agriculture is being underestimated

645
00:32:04,380 --> 00:32:08,100
due to accounting, whatever you wanna call it,

646
00:32:08,700 --> 00:32:14,200
ledger domain or whatever they say, fancy accounting.

647
00:32:15,100 --> 00:32:18,020
And this is as a result possibly of pressure

648
00:32:18,020 --> 00:32:20,440
from the meat and dairy industry.

649
00:32:20,780 --> 00:32:23,100
And who knows, other industries that also make money

650
00:32:23,900 --> 00:32:26,140
from the meat and dairy industry would include,

651
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:28,000
for example, the pharmaceutical industry.

652
00:32:28,220 --> 00:32:30,200
I'm not saying that the big pharma

653
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:31,820
is putting on the pressure,

654
00:32:32,220 --> 00:32:36,920
but what I am saying is that there is a huge, huge, huge

655
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:39,460
financial incentive for some people

656
00:32:39,460 --> 00:32:45,060
to keep the impact of meat and dairy minimized

657
00:32:45,060 --> 00:32:46,300
when it comes to climate change.

658
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:48,680
Because you ask the average person on the street,

659
00:32:48,820 --> 00:32:51,520
well, hey, how are you counteracting fossil fuels?

660
00:32:51,660 --> 00:32:53,780
Not everybody can go out and buy an electric car.

661
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:56,180
It's very amorphous.

662
00:32:56,840 --> 00:33:00,300
It's not like I could stop my fossil fuel emissions,

663
00:33:00,700 --> 00:33:04,900
but I can three times a day choose to eat a plant-based diet.

664
00:33:04,900 --> 00:33:07,400
That's something very realistic that I can do,

665
00:33:07,460 --> 00:33:09,920
and I have been doing for the last 28 years.

666
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:15,020
So the point is that this is shocking.

667
00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:17,820
It is shocking.

668
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:22,980
And I know that there has been some controversy

669
00:33:22,980 --> 00:33:25,620
in terms of why is this reporting happening,

670
00:33:26,020 --> 00:33:29,040
but it hasn't gotten into the mainstream.

671
00:33:29,740 --> 00:33:33,280
When I find articles on this kind of issue,

672
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:38,640
it's usually on some not big network.

673
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:40,880
So here we have Green Queen reporting

674
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:43,460
that World Bank bats for alternative proteins,

675
00:33:43,940 --> 00:33:46,660
calls for shift away from meat and dairy subsidies.

676
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:50,840
The World Bank itself, this is a World Bank website,

677
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:53,120
says changes in farm and food production

678
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:56,100
can cut greenhouse gas emissions by a third.

679
00:33:56,580 --> 00:33:58,020
And then the third headline says,

680
00:33:58,140 --> 00:34:01,700
World Bank tiptoes into fiery debate over meat emissions.

681
00:34:02,410 --> 00:34:07,400
So we're basically having a behind the scenes battle

682
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:11,239
over whether they should come out, essentially.

683
00:34:11,679 --> 00:34:12,940
This is a coming out story.

684
00:34:14,010 --> 00:34:14,400
Doctor?

685
00:34:16,030 --> 00:34:17,080
Yes, absolutely.

686
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:19,600
It's been hidden for way too long.

687
00:34:20,100 --> 00:34:24,960
And in fact, to get back to where we started

688
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:28,900
on how we measure emissions from cutting down trees,

689
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:30,980
I spoke to one of the lead authors

690
00:34:30,980 --> 00:34:33,020
of the Global Carbon Budget.

691
00:34:33,199 --> 00:34:35,860
This is the reference body, if you like,

692
00:34:36,139 --> 00:34:38,460
for emissions in carbon dioxide.

693
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:40,580
And he said that he was involved

694
00:34:40,940 --> 00:34:43,300
with the United Nations three decades ago

695
00:34:43,300 --> 00:34:47,620
when they were forming those rules, those conventions.

696
00:34:48,300 --> 00:34:53,719
And he recommended that they use full accounting

697
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:56,160
of all emissions, as I have done.

698
00:34:56,740 --> 00:35:01,260
But it was overruled because the rules that came out

699
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:04,340
were considered a policy document, the guidelines.

700
00:35:04,620 --> 00:35:07,820
That's considered policy, and therefore they're influenced

701
00:35:07,820 --> 00:35:10,080
by different countries' input.

702
00:35:10,820 --> 00:35:14,040
So yes, we've been doing some tricky accounting,

703
00:35:14,240 --> 00:35:17,900
some creative accounting on several different things.

704
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:23,040
We've been discounting emissions from land clearing.

705
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:27,680
We've been ignoring cooling emissions.

706
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:32,860
And it works out also that when we compare methane

707
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:37,800
to carbon dioxide, the warming from methane

708
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:42,780
using the latest and the most accurate climate science

709
00:35:42,780 --> 00:35:44,660
we have, which is a measure called

710
00:35:44,660 --> 00:35:47,260
effective radiative forcing, forget the name,

711
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:49,860
but using the best science we have,

712
00:35:50,100 --> 00:35:53,400
we find out that methane has caused three times

713
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:56,380
more warming than we thought it had caused

714
00:35:56,380 --> 00:35:59,660
using our accounting rules.

715
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:03,160
So you put those three things together

716
00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:04,720
and it flips the script.

717
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:09,220
It totally changes what our understanding is

718
00:36:09,220 --> 00:36:11,720
of what has caused the climate change

719
00:36:11,720 --> 00:36:12,760
that we now experience.

720
00:36:13,140 --> 00:36:17,280
What is the driver of those extreme storms,

721
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:21,340
that flooding, those fires, the ice caps melting,

722
00:36:21,820 --> 00:36:24,000
the ocean currents changing?

723
00:36:24,300 --> 00:36:26,480
What is the real cause of those?

724
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:31,120
And we find rather than fossil fuels, it's agriculture

725
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:34,960
and mostly, 90%, animal agriculture.

726
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:38,120
So this definitely flips the script.

727
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:41,460
It's not new science.

728
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:44,820
I'm using other people's data, not using the best data,

729
00:36:44,820 --> 00:36:47,220
the global carbon budget data and other data

730
00:36:47,220 --> 00:36:50,240
about emissions from land clearing.

731
00:36:50,720 --> 00:36:53,900
And I'm using the IPCC's own science

732
00:36:53,900 --> 00:36:56,620
on effective radiative forcing,

733
00:36:56,820 --> 00:36:58,580
but comparing gases basically.

734
00:36:59,380 --> 00:37:02,980
So using the latest science and the latest data

735
00:37:03,900 --> 00:37:06,100
shows that we've got it wrong.

736
00:37:06,220 --> 00:37:09,620
We've had it wrong for decades

737
00:37:09,620 --> 00:37:14,100
because we set those rules when we did to the wrong measure.

738
00:37:14,100 --> 00:37:18,340
Now, the industry pressure will be to maintain those rules,

739
00:37:18,420 --> 00:37:19,920
to keep the rules in place.

740
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:23,620
But what's gonna happen, and I'm getting good traction,

741
00:37:23,740 --> 00:37:25,300
good feedback from the science community,

742
00:37:25,500 --> 00:37:27,980
that the science will move on.

743
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:32,680
The science will recognise all of these things

744
00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:34,560
that I've been saying, and it already has.

745
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:38,020
I'm not the first on any of these three measures.

746
00:37:38,060 --> 00:37:40,020
I'm not the first to publish on that.

747
00:37:40,100 --> 00:37:41,200
I've just put them together.

748
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:44,220
So the science is already out there,

749
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:47,220
and my paper is pulling it together.

750
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:48,600
It has a waffly title.

751
00:37:48,900 --> 00:37:50,960
It's awful. It's a terrible title.

752
00:37:51,240 --> 00:37:52,840
I had a much better title to start with,

753
00:37:52,940 --> 00:37:56,260
but in the review process, in the peer review process,

754
00:37:56,260 --> 00:38:00,200
it's very difficult to get a paper over the line.

755
00:38:00,380 --> 00:38:03,420
You have to tone down all the...

756
00:38:03,420 --> 00:38:09,420
Doctor, you're doing more than 99.999999% of the population

757
00:38:09,420 --> 00:38:10,500
to get the truth out there.

758
00:38:10,500 --> 00:38:11,580
We applaud you.

759
00:38:11,860 --> 00:38:14,700
What we're trying to do is break it down

760
00:38:14,700 --> 00:38:17,540
so the general public can understand,

761
00:38:18,100 --> 00:38:20,040
because they can't really challenge

762
00:38:20,550 --> 00:38:25,360
the talking points of the establishment

763
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:27,660
unless they understand it themselves.

764
00:38:28,180 --> 00:38:31,020
I cannot go out and argue animal agriculture

765
00:38:31,020 --> 00:38:32,660
is the leading cause of climate change

766
00:38:33,170 --> 00:38:35,440
unless I understand why animal agriculture

767
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:36,860
is the leading cause of climate change.

768
00:38:37,020 --> 00:38:38,520
So we have to break it down.

769
00:38:38,910 --> 00:38:41,740
Now, there's so much else I wanna talk to you about.

770
00:38:41,940 --> 00:38:43,680
The second, we jumped ahead.

771
00:38:44,260 --> 00:38:46,580
The second issue that you raised,

772
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:47,740
you raised three issues.

773
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:50,140
One, overarching bad accounting.

774
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:53,980
Number three, which we talked about,

775
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:56,760
is aerosols not being included

776
00:38:57,450 --> 00:39:01,320
since they are a cooling agent that cools fossil fuels

777
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:03,340
and they're emitted by fossil fuels.

778
00:39:03,540 --> 00:39:04,800
Since they don't count that,

779
00:39:04,860 --> 00:39:07,680
it exaggerates the impact of fossil fuels.

780
00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:10,620
But then there's a heating element

781
00:39:10,620 --> 00:39:13,140
that is even more complicated.

782
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:15,640
So put your thinking caps on, people.

783
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:16,820
I'm gonna concentrate.

784
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:20,500
This is a very short one, but this is crucial.

785
00:39:20,720 --> 00:39:22,840
Here's another thing that isn't being counted.

786
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:25,200
Agriculture and climate change.

787
00:39:25,380 --> 00:39:27,740
The second development is to use

788
00:39:27,740 --> 00:39:29,560
effective radiative forcing

789
00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:32,000
rather than global warming potentials

790
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:33,980
to compare different gases.

791
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:38,020
ERF is the best climate science there is.

792
00:39:38,620 --> 00:39:40,040
It's not a future projection,

793
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:42,680
but fitted to known measurements.

794
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:45,940
Okay, effective radiation.

795
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:47,780
I can't even say it.

796
00:39:48,580 --> 00:39:51,340
In people terms, you're talking to a third grader now.

797
00:39:51,900 --> 00:39:53,800
What the heck are you talking about?

798
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:58,960
Yes, and Jane, it's not that easy to convey

799
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:02,340
because what happens in the atmosphere is very complex.

800
00:40:03,020 --> 00:40:05,240
You have different chemical reactions

801
00:40:05,240 --> 00:40:07,380
at different heights in the atmosphere.

802
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:09,900
You have methane, for example.

803
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:15,330
It breaks down to form a little carbon dioxide eventually.

804
00:40:15,860 --> 00:40:19,140
It also breaks down to form ozone.

805
00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:22,840
And ozone at the surface of the planet

806
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:25,480
is a strong greenhouse gas.

807
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:29,780
But let's get back to the effective radiative forcing,

808
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:30,980
if I said that right.

809
00:40:31,860 --> 00:40:37,060
Yes, effective radiative forcing is a model, if you like,

810
00:40:37,180 --> 00:40:40,640
that combines all the impacts of all the different gases.

811
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:45,160
So we've had other measures that compare gases,

812
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:47,360
say methane to carbon dioxide,

813
00:40:47,900 --> 00:40:50,380
and they're trying to fiddle that

814
00:40:50,380 --> 00:40:53,240
to downplay the impact of methane.

815
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:55,860
But if you look at the best science there is now,

816
00:40:55,940 --> 00:40:57,660
which is this effective radiative forcing,

817
00:40:57,660 --> 00:41:02,460
you find that the impact of methane is three times more

818
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:06,880
than if you were to use the measures

819
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:09,300
that are now in the guidelines, in the rules.

820
00:41:10,180 --> 00:41:13,560
So, you know, we've used odgy accounting.

821
00:41:13,860 --> 00:41:16,680
We've also used measures to compare gases

822
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:19,700
that do a terrible job of measuring

823
00:41:20,030 --> 00:41:23,540
what the real warming is from methane, in particular.

824
00:41:23,980 --> 00:41:25,180
Methane is the big one.

825
00:41:25,180 --> 00:41:25,780
Here's the thing.

826
00:41:25,940 --> 00:41:27,940
I thought, maybe I'm completely wrong,

827
00:41:28,020 --> 00:41:30,260
but I thought it was something about reflection.

828
00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:35,920
I don't understand effective radiation, whatever that was.

829
00:41:36,020 --> 00:41:38,460
Say it what it is, and then explain it

830
00:41:38,460 --> 00:41:43,420
as quietly as you possibly can, as simply as you can.

831
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:48,300
Yes, effective radiative forcing is a,

832
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:52,580
it's a measure of our emissions,

833
00:41:52,580 --> 00:41:55,700
what our emissions do to the temperature

834
00:41:55,700 --> 00:41:57,280
on the surface of the planet.

835
00:41:58,460 --> 00:42:00,080
How much warming do they cause?

836
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:04,380
The radiative forcing is a measure

837
00:42:04,380 --> 00:42:05,760
of watts per square metre.

838
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:09,160
In other words, if you were to shine a light bulb

839
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:15,200
above your head, you would receive a certain amount

840
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:17,480
of warming from that light bulb,

841
00:42:17,580 --> 00:42:21,900
from that heat source, if you like, on your head.

842
00:42:22,580 --> 00:42:23,420
Mine in particular.

843
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:27,860
But that warming depends on the strength

844
00:42:27,860 --> 00:42:29,060
of the light bulb, right?

845
00:42:29,700 --> 00:42:36,920
Now, in climate science, each of the gases traps heat,

846
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:42,580
like carbon dioxide traps heat, and it vibrates.

847
00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:46,500
Methane traps heat, and those molecules vibrate,

848
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:49,560
and they emit warming.

849
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:55,340
So the energy that's being taken from the sun's rays

850
00:42:55,340 --> 00:42:58,420
and then hits these gases and then warms the planet.

851
00:42:58,780 --> 00:43:01,000
If we didn't have these gases, by the way,

852
00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:04,700
we'd live on a frozen planet.

853
00:43:04,980 --> 00:43:07,660
So we need some of it, but we don't need

854
00:43:07,660 --> 00:43:09,060
as much as what we have now.

855
00:43:09,580 --> 00:43:12,140
And so the effective radiative forcing

856
00:43:12,140 --> 00:43:15,480
is a measure of how much warming do we feel

857
00:43:15,980 --> 00:43:19,580
on the surface of the planet from that amount

858
00:43:19,580 --> 00:43:21,020
of gas in the atmosphere.

859
00:43:21,380 --> 00:43:24,040
And it is the best science we have right now.

860
00:43:24,140 --> 00:43:26,060
These are the best models.

861
00:43:26,460 --> 00:43:29,060
They're not forward projections, they're fitted to data.

862
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:31,420
But you're saying it's being miscalculated.

863
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:36,860
Yes, using the measure that we use now,

864
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:39,200
which is a thing called global warming potential,

865
00:43:40,020 --> 00:43:44,160
it actually miscounts the warming

866
00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:48,060
from the non-carbon dioxide gases, particularly methane.

867
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:49,300
Methane's the biggie.

868
00:43:49,620 --> 00:43:50,780
Methane is really interesting

869
00:43:50,780 --> 00:43:54,080
because even though it's here for only 10 years or so,

870
00:43:55,220 --> 00:43:58,340
methane has caused, since 1750,

871
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:02,180
methane has caused half of the current global warming

872
00:44:02,180 --> 00:44:03,780
we are now experiencing.

873
00:44:04,420 --> 00:44:06,640
So methane has been responsible

874
00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:10,080
for 0.6 of a degree of global warming.

875
00:44:10,660 --> 00:44:13,800
Now, you don't hear that very often either.

876
00:44:14,580 --> 00:44:15,660
That's hidden away.

877
00:44:16,220 --> 00:44:18,040
Let me jump in and ask a question

878
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:20,560
because this is so important and so informative.

879
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:24,880
But when people talk about methane and animal agriculture,

880
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:28,780
they generally make a joke, oh, cow burps and cow farts.

881
00:44:29,260 --> 00:44:34,000
Now, why is that a ridiculous to reduce it to that

882
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:35,320
when it's so much more?

883
00:44:36,100 --> 00:44:39,040
And how would you characterize

884
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:44,740
animal agriculture's contribution to methane gas?

885
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:49,300
Yes, well, it's well known that methane,

886
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:53,200
the largest source of methane is animal agriculture.

887
00:44:53,580 --> 00:44:55,860
It comes from them digesting their food,

888
00:44:55,980 --> 00:44:59,260
their grass and burping and et cetera, as you said.

889
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:03,560
It also comes from the waste that's washed out.

890
00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:08,760
It also comes from, in piggeries, for example,

891
00:45:09,710 --> 00:45:12,120
all their waste is washed into lagoons,

892
00:45:13,290 --> 00:45:15,020
which you don't wanna go anywhere near

893
00:45:15,020 --> 00:45:17,780
and they produce an enormous amount of methane.

894
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:25,520
And not only that, it's also when these foods,

895
00:45:25,980 --> 00:45:27,700
when animals are eaten,

896
00:45:28,240 --> 00:45:33,460
the waste that is then produced from us and in landfill,

897
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:35,440
it also produces methane.

898
00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:39,060
So methane is by far the biggest,

899
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:45,240
by far the biggest source of methane is animal agriculture.

900
00:45:45,620 --> 00:45:47,960
There's no question of that, that's known science.

901
00:45:48,580 --> 00:45:52,420
Close behind that is methane from fracking,

902
00:45:52,660 --> 00:45:55,060
from coal seam gas.

903
00:45:55,460 --> 00:45:56,860
And that comes from coal mines

904
00:45:56,860 --> 00:45:59,920
and comes from natural gas exploration,

905
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:02,920
leaks in both of those.

906
00:46:03,720 --> 00:46:04,880
So, yes.

907
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:07,620
Okay, so I wanna get back to a couple of things

908
00:46:08,100 --> 00:46:09,800
while we have a few minutes left.

909
00:46:10,140 --> 00:46:12,800
One is that, again, correct me if I'm wrong,

910
00:46:12,860 --> 00:46:16,220
I'm no scientist, but my understanding is back in 2006,

911
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:18,080
the United Nations published a report

912
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:21,440
called Livestock's Long Shadow, which is still online.

913
00:46:21,540 --> 00:46:23,700
You can just Google livestock's long shadow

914
00:46:24,260 --> 00:46:25,860
and it comes up.

915
00:46:25,860 --> 00:46:29,360
And essentially it says that animal agriculture

916
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:32,240
is responsible for more greenhouse gas emissions

917
00:46:32,240 --> 00:46:33,860
than all transportation combined.

918
00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:35,940
And when people think of fossil fuels,

919
00:46:36,300 --> 00:46:38,120
a lot of times they think of transportation.

920
00:46:39,060 --> 00:46:40,600
There's giant factories,

921
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:44,100
but again, they have no control over that,

922
00:46:44,180 --> 00:46:45,960
they have control over what they drive.

923
00:46:46,180 --> 00:46:49,780
So when the United Nations said that animal agriculture

924
00:46:49,780 --> 00:46:52,340
is responsible for more greenhouse gas emissions

925
00:46:52,340 --> 00:46:54,000
in all transportation combined,

926
00:46:54,850 --> 00:46:56,360
that was a big thing.

927
00:46:56,860 --> 00:46:58,800
Again, not getting the kind of coverage,

928
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:02,720
but then my understanding is they began backtracking on that.

929
00:47:03,340 --> 00:47:05,400
And according to some reports,

930
00:47:05,660 --> 00:47:08,520
there was industry influence

931
00:47:08,910 --> 00:47:11,960
and then it somehow went down to 18%

932
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:15,040
and then it went down to like 14.5%,

933
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:17,060
which is what a lot of news media cover.

934
00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:20,000
No wonder they don't think it's worth covering

935
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:22,700
when it's only listed as 14.5%.

936
00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:24,900
But that can't really be true

937
00:47:24,900 --> 00:47:28,320
if what you're saying is right, it's the leading cause.

938
00:47:28,740 --> 00:47:30,700
So do you know anything about the politics

939
00:47:30,700 --> 00:47:33,420
of why the United Nations in 2006

940
00:47:33,420 --> 00:47:36,500
essentially admitted sort of what you're saying,

941
00:47:36,860 --> 00:47:38,960
that animal agriculture is responsible

942
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:40,460
for more greenhouse gas emissions

943
00:47:40,460 --> 00:47:41,940
than all transportation combined,

944
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:45,060
and then proceeded to backtrack on that for decades?

945
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:47,780
Yes, yes.

946
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:51,020
That report was a seminal report,

947
00:47:51,020 --> 00:47:54,820
it was brilliant at the time and well needed.

948
00:47:55,380 --> 00:47:57,120
It didn't count everything, of course,

949
00:47:57,260 --> 00:48:00,500
but what happened to the guys

950
00:48:00,500 --> 00:48:02,580
who were the authors of that report

951
00:48:02,580 --> 00:48:03,900
is that they were hounded out.

952
00:48:04,260 --> 00:48:06,600
See, that organisation that produced the report

953
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:08,760
was the Food and Agricultural Organisation.

954
00:48:09,380 --> 00:48:13,620
And that United Nations body is dominated by industry.

955
00:48:14,300 --> 00:48:15,660
And of course, the biggest of those

956
00:48:15,660 --> 00:48:17,160
is the one with the most money

957
00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:21,000
is the meat and dairy sectors.

958
00:48:21,620 --> 00:48:23,860
So they hounded out these authors.

959
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:28,100
Some of them left the agency, some of them retired.

960
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:34,540
Some of them wouldn't speak to media after that.

961
00:48:34,940 --> 00:48:37,800
It was a terrible travesty.

962
00:48:38,900 --> 00:48:40,660
And then they got industry involved

963
00:48:40,660 --> 00:48:44,100
and they downgraded the 18% to 14.5%.

964
00:48:44,460 --> 00:48:46,840
But of course, they didn't count things properly

965
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:50,020
which is what this work does.

966
00:48:51,420 --> 00:48:54,780
So yes, for so long,

967
00:48:55,540 --> 00:49:00,040
the emissions from meat and dairy have been downplayed.

968
00:49:00,060 --> 00:49:02,500
And there's lots of pressure now, right now,

969
00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:07,040
to change the metrics that we have to measure methane.

970
00:49:07,700 --> 00:49:12,300
And from this work, we know that methane is under-reported,

971
00:49:12,300 --> 00:49:16,020
but what they wanna do is further reduce,

972
00:49:16,700 --> 00:49:21,720
pardon me, further reduce the influence of methane.

973
00:49:22,180 --> 00:49:24,380
So they're coming up with all sorts of new metrics

974
00:49:24,380 --> 00:49:27,960
called Global Warming GWP Star,

975
00:49:28,300 --> 00:49:30,340
which is a model which says that,

976
00:49:30,620 --> 00:49:33,540
okay, a constant number of cattle,

977
00:49:33,700 --> 00:49:36,860
constant emissions won't produce any more warming.

978
00:49:38,100 --> 00:49:41,380
The problem with that is that it's not constant.

979
00:49:41,380 --> 00:49:42,580
The emissions are going up,

980
00:49:42,660 --> 00:49:44,560
they're skyrocketing in the atmosphere.

981
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:50,700
And also their constant level is disastrous for the planet.

982
00:49:51,420 --> 00:49:53,800
And the interesting thing about this research

983
00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:57,840
is that their research also shows

984
00:49:57,840 --> 00:50:01,600
that if you reduce methane, it actually causes cooling.

985
00:50:02,820 --> 00:50:07,860
So they're arguing that a constant level of methane is fine.

986
00:50:08,460 --> 00:50:11,320
But methane is like,

987
00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:14,620
we've got two big levers to control the climate.

988
00:50:14,980 --> 00:50:16,180
One of them is carbon dioxide,

989
00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:20,060
and that's a big lever that takes a long time to move.

990
00:50:20,340 --> 00:50:23,200
And one of them is methane, which is also a big lever,

991
00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:24,960
but it can move very quickly.

992
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:27,020
Now we have this methane lever

993
00:50:27,020 --> 00:50:28,740
and we can move it very quickly.

994
00:50:28,980 --> 00:50:32,020
We can move it by going away

995
00:50:32,020 --> 00:50:35,660
from meat and dairy production very quickly.

996
00:50:35,660 --> 00:50:38,180
And that can actually cool the planet.

997
00:50:38,340 --> 00:50:39,860
In fact, it's the only gas.

998
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:43,700
Methane is the only gas that can cool the planet

999
00:50:43,700 --> 00:50:47,160
in the near term, in decades, not centuries.

1000
00:50:47,980 --> 00:50:52,280
So it's a farce what they've done.

1001
00:50:52,380 --> 00:50:57,300
They're trying to minimize the so-called impact of methane,

1002
00:50:57,460 --> 00:50:59,920
but it's actually much stronger

1003
00:50:59,920 --> 00:51:02,420
than they recognize even now.

1004
00:51:03,020 --> 00:51:04,840
We are speaking with a scientist

1005
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:07,180
who says he has the climate change solution,

1006
00:51:07,380 --> 00:51:09,360
Dr. Gerard Wedderburn-Bissup.

1007
00:51:09,620 --> 00:51:11,780
And he has just published this paper,

1008
00:51:11,900 --> 00:51:13,260
which sounds a little milquetoast,

1009
00:51:13,420 --> 00:51:15,360
increased transparency and accounting conventions

1010
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:16,760
could benefit climate policy,

1011
00:51:17,060 --> 00:51:19,400
but its impact is revolutionary.

1012
00:51:19,740 --> 00:51:20,640
Summarize it, sir.

1013
00:51:21,540 --> 00:51:22,800
Yes, summarize it.

1014
00:51:22,860 --> 00:51:23,900
There's three things.

1015
00:51:24,180 --> 00:51:26,800
Okay, if you were standing at a bus stop

1016
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:27,520
and someone says,

1017
00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:30,800
animal agriculture, the leading cause of climate change,

1018
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:32,160
how can that possibly be?

1019
00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:34,820
Okay, well, there's three things, I think,

1020
00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:37,840
that if you can just remember these three things,

1021
00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:40,800
this is the basis of that.

1022
00:51:41,720 --> 00:51:46,240
Number one, we'd be using dodgy accounting

1023
00:51:46,240 --> 00:51:47,740
to measure tree clearing.

1024
00:51:48,740 --> 00:51:51,900
Number two, we've been using the wrong metric

1025
00:51:51,900 --> 00:51:55,100
to compare gases, methane and carbon dioxide.

1026
00:51:55,420 --> 00:51:59,640
And number three, we haven't counted at all

1027
00:51:59,640 --> 00:52:00,720
the cooling emissions.

1028
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:02,100
So that's it.

1029
00:52:02,460 --> 00:52:04,580
It's dodgy accounting for deforestation,

1030
00:52:05,100 --> 00:52:08,480
it's comparing gases and it's cooling emissions.

1031
00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:11,980
Those three things add up to make a huge change

1032
00:52:11,980 --> 00:52:15,020
to our understanding of what is causing

1033
00:52:15,020 --> 00:52:18,100
current present day climate change.

1034
00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:23,300
What needs to happen to get the United Nations

1035
00:52:23,900 --> 00:52:26,820
and governments around the world to realize this?

1036
00:52:26,820 --> 00:52:29,320
Because the implications of what you're saying

1037
00:52:30,110 --> 00:52:33,440
is essentially another way of saying that is saying,

1038
00:52:34,070 --> 00:52:37,860
the US government is fueling the climate crisis

1039
00:52:37,860 --> 00:52:40,720
with its subsidies to animal agriculture.

1040
00:52:42,260 --> 00:52:45,700
Whereas animal agriculture, according to your paper,

1041
00:52:45,780 --> 00:52:46,900
is the leading cause.

1042
00:52:47,500 --> 00:52:52,220
Whereas the US government subsidizes animal agriculture

1043
00:52:52,670 --> 00:52:54,800
in the billions of dollars

1044
00:52:55,240 --> 00:52:57,840
of the average fast food hamburger would cost

1045
00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:00,860
not a couple of bucks, but maybe 30 bucks

1046
00:53:00,860 --> 00:53:03,060
if it wasn't subsidized by the US government.

1047
00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:07,620
Wherefore the US government and other Western governments,

1048
00:53:08,040 --> 00:53:09,380
but particularly the US government

1049
00:53:09,380 --> 00:53:11,640
is funding the climate crisis.

1050
00:53:11,920 --> 00:53:17,520
The very crisis that many in the government over time,

1051
00:53:17,720 --> 00:53:19,540
I'm not talking about any administration here,

1052
00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:21,320
have said they wanna solve.

1053
00:53:21,580 --> 00:53:22,900
So they're spending a lot of money

1054
00:53:22,900 --> 00:53:24,220
trying to solve the climate crisis

1055
00:53:24,220 --> 00:53:26,520
that they are actually creating themselves.

1056
00:53:27,740 --> 00:53:28,580
It's criminal.

1057
00:53:29,620 --> 00:53:31,900
Yes, it's absolutely criminal, Jane.

1058
00:53:32,140 --> 00:53:34,700
And these two papers actually go into

1059
00:53:34,700 --> 00:53:38,180
the policy implications of this work.

1060
00:53:38,680 --> 00:53:42,340
And the World Bank produced a report last year

1061
00:53:42,340 --> 00:53:45,640
that looked at agricultural subsidies globally.

1062
00:53:46,540 --> 00:53:48,400
And they discovered that,

1063
00:53:48,400 --> 00:53:49,980
this language is rather interesting,

1064
00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:53,280
that they discovered that the agricultural subsidies

1065
00:53:53,280 --> 00:53:56,680
are overwhelmingly harmful to the planet.

1066
00:53:57,700 --> 00:54:00,000
And of course, most of those go to meat and dairy.

1067
00:54:00,700 --> 00:54:06,560
So those policies are what this paper targets.

1068
00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:11,260
If we gain a new understanding of the dangers,

1069
00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:14,280
the full impact of deforestation,

1070
00:54:14,780 --> 00:54:17,940
that will put more money into the carbon market

1071
00:54:17,940 --> 00:54:19,460
to stop deforestation.

1072
00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:22,400
If we gain a new understanding of the emissions

1073
00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:27,560
from agriculture, that puts new emphasis on policies

1074
00:54:27,560 --> 00:54:31,800
that rein in that colossus

1075
00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:34,400
that produces all these greenhouse gases.

1076
00:54:35,040 --> 00:54:37,520
And subsidies are an obvious place to start.

1077
00:54:38,360 --> 00:54:44,820
The subsidies distort the market so fully

1078
00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:48,040
that we think meat and dairy is cheap.

1079
00:54:48,180 --> 00:54:50,000
It's not, it's only because of the subsidies.

1080
00:54:50,480 --> 00:54:54,900
But also, no one is paying for the harms to the planet.

1081
00:54:55,660 --> 00:54:58,700
The climate harms and the water harms, et cetera,

1082
00:54:58,980 --> 00:55:00,400
no one's paying for those.

1083
00:55:00,760 --> 00:55:03,280
So the subsidies are a start,

1084
00:55:03,680 --> 00:55:07,860
but also the climate harms are a big part of the future.

1085
00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:09,920
We must change those policies.

1086
00:55:10,240 --> 00:55:12,580
I could talk to you all day long.

1087
00:55:13,140 --> 00:55:15,400
The question is, how do we get the world to,

1088
00:55:15,400 --> 00:55:20,900
I think some very smart people are aware of this.

1089
00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:25,940
Bill Gates actually went on national television

1090
00:55:25,940 --> 00:55:29,180
and said, we need to switch to synthetic meat,

1091
00:55:29,340 --> 00:55:31,100
which was his nerdy way of saying,

1092
00:55:31,200 --> 00:55:34,060
we need to stop subsidizing animal agriculture

1093
00:55:34,060 --> 00:55:35,260
and pushing animal agriculture.

1094
00:55:35,380 --> 00:55:37,420
And he was laughed at, Bill Gates.

1095
00:55:38,180 --> 00:55:41,200
So the question is, how do we make this change?

1096
00:55:41,260 --> 00:55:43,560
How do we convince the powers that be

1097
00:55:44,220 --> 00:55:46,120
that it is in their self-interest,

1098
00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:47,840
which obviously it is.

1099
00:55:48,300 --> 00:55:50,320
I remember taking this history course,

1100
00:55:50,540 --> 00:55:52,640
nothing to do with animals or anything,

1101
00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:56,760
but this professor was talking about people on Easter Island

1102
00:55:56,760 --> 00:55:58,640
and they're in this remote island

1103
00:55:59,280 --> 00:56:02,640
and they have these giant statues that they're famous for,

1104
00:56:02,720 --> 00:56:05,580
and they love to roll them around with trees, big logs.

1105
00:56:06,020 --> 00:56:07,340
And they kept chopping their trees

1106
00:56:07,340 --> 00:56:09,000
and chopping their trees and chopping their trees.

1107
00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:10,980
At a certain point, the professor said,

1108
00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:13,620
they had to realize if they chop down that last tree,

1109
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:15,080
since they're on a remote island,

1110
00:56:15,080 --> 00:56:17,320
they're spelling their own death.

1111
00:56:17,660 --> 00:56:20,180
But he said, they went ahead and did it anyway.

1112
00:56:20,900 --> 00:56:22,180
That's where we're at.

1113
00:56:22,900 --> 00:56:25,080
We are committing slow suicide

1114
00:56:25,080 --> 00:56:27,940
because we are not looking at the real causes.

1115
00:56:28,320 --> 00:56:33,040
I myself personally was told, you be quiet.

1116
00:56:33,220 --> 00:56:35,240
When I tried to raise this issue,

1117
00:56:35,740 --> 00:56:39,560
I would say six or seven years ago at a climate rally,

1118
00:56:39,980 --> 00:56:41,560
I was told to shut up.

1119
00:56:42,780 --> 00:56:44,060
People don't wanna hear it

1120
00:56:44,060 --> 00:56:45,480
because they don't wanna change their behavior.

1121
00:56:46,260 --> 00:56:47,500
They love their meat.

1122
00:56:47,880 --> 00:56:49,780
They love eating animals.

1123
00:56:51,260 --> 00:56:54,640
So, I'm 30 years recovering as a recovering alcoholic.

1124
00:56:54,820 --> 00:56:56,680
I thought I couldn't go a day without a drink.

1125
00:56:56,820 --> 00:56:57,340
And guess what?

1126
00:56:57,380 --> 00:56:58,800
I haven't had a drink for 30 years.

1127
00:57:00,060 --> 00:57:01,700
We can wake up.

1128
00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:03,260
We usually have to hit bottom though.

1129
00:57:03,800 --> 00:57:06,140
But in this case, we have to collectively hit bottom

1130
00:57:06,660 --> 00:57:10,480
and how many fires, floods and tornadoes

1131
00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:13,060
and the media covers that.

1132
00:57:13,060 --> 00:57:15,020
I call it catastrophe porn.

1133
00:57:15,600 --> 00:57:17,060
They're not talking about the solution.

1134
00:57:17,200 --> 00:57:20,340
They're just getting ratings off of the horror.

1135
00:57:20,700 --> 00:57:22,600
We have to do something about it

1136
00:57:22,600 --> 00:57:24,020
and we have to do something now.

1137
00:57:27,300 --> 00:57:28,060
Excuse me.

1138
00:57:28,740 --> 00:57:30,720
I get upset when I talk about this

1139
00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:32,660
because we're killing our planet.

1140
00:57:33,700 --> 00:57:35,700
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1141
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1142
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1143
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