UnchainedTV: How AI Can Save India's Elephants

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Welcome.

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We have an extraordinarily exciting show for you

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today, breaking news that is going to save

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the lives of many elephants in India.

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And it's truly extraordinary.

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Artificial intelligence is allowing train conductors to get

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a warning when elephants are on the track.

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It's an AI-based warning device that allows

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the train conductor to slow down so these

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innocent majestic creatures are not hit by trains.

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One of the leading causes of elephant deaths

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in India, and that's just for starters, our

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incredibly determined and wildly successful guest today has

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made it a mission of her life to

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save Asian elephants who are primarily based in

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India.

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Sangeeta Iyer, let's start with this huge breakthrough.

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You're getting these devices in.

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How many have you gotten?

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How much does it cost?

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How can people help?

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And how are they saving elephant lives?

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Right.

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Jane, first of all, it's really, really good

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to be with you and to be able

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to share about the progress that we're making.

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And as you mentioned, clearly every year, hundreds

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of elephants get killed on the India's deadly

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train tracks.

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And so our organisation, Voices for Asian Elephants,

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decided we absolutely had to do something.

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So we partnered with some of the indigenous

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tech experts on the ground in India, in

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West Bengal, and we created this AI-based

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technology called EleSense.

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It is a device that is made of

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like four sensors.

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It actually assesses and determines the temperature, the

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height, the moving pattern, and takes, you know,

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three or four of these very important observations,

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that is the technology that is, and of

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course the height.

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And so it makes sure that the elephants,

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when they are around that area where this

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device has been installed, it sends out this

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sirens, this alarm system.

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And as you have seen in that SMS

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messaging, we sent out that message to everybody

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involved, all stakeholders, like the train pilots, the

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tea plantation people, the forest department, and of

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course our own team.

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And they then, through the walkie-talkie, send

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the message to the train pilots to slow

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down.

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And when these train pilots slow down, it

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allows the train to cross and, I mean,

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allows the elephants to cross over the other

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side safely.

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And thus, it has averted some 925-plus

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train collisions with elephants in India just last

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year alone.

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And this year, so far, between January and

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August, we've averted almost 400-plus train collisions

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with elephants.

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That is absolutely extraordinary.

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I'm also here with my co-host Lindsay

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Baker.

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And what we're so excited about is that

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this is cost-effective.

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Now, you might think to yourself, well, artificial

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intelligence, high-tech, this has got to cost

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millions of dollars.

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There's no way I can help by donating,

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but that's not the case.

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The fact is that these are incredibly cost

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-effective and every single person who donates will

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be able to pitch in to create another

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one of these high-tech EleSense devices that

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can then be deployed in another part of

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India.

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So will you tell us, Sangeeta, how much

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they cost, how many have come in, and

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why people should donate, why this is a

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practical solution, not some pie-in-the-sky

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thing that requires millionaires or billionaires, but that

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every single one of us can contribute to?

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Right.

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So last year, we installed 40 devices across

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certain areas where accidents take place more frequently.

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And so for those 40 devices, we ended

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up raising $80,000.

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So you can actually divide that because we

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have to get, procure the material, the equipment,

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and then of course, we have to pay

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the people who work for us, et cetera,

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et cetera.

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And now what we're doing this year is

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we are actually installing 30 devices in a

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core elephant range called the Chapramari Wildlife Sanctuary.

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And then along with that, we're also installing

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30 additional devices, EleSense devices inside the Buxa

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Tiger Reserve.

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So we are installing now, we are expanding

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it given the success of our installations last

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year.

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And given that we have averted some 940

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plus, 25 plus elephant deaths, 925 plus elephant

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deaths just last year alone.

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Sorry, these numbers are so hard to recall,

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but at the end of the day, we

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are so excited because it works.

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And with these 30 devices, and I just

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want to share a quick story about why

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Chapramari Forest.

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In this particular area, Jane and Lindsay, what

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had happened was a mom, a pregnant elephant

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and her daughter, as well as her herd

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were just crossing because what happens, and I've

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visited this place in Chapramari, the twists and

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turns are so steep and crooked and sudden.

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And what happens is when a train is

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coming from here, this train is unable to

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see that there's an elephant on that side

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because the train, it's so kind of sudden,

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right?

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And so that's why the installation of these

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devices is so critical because what happened in

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that situation is that pregnant elephant and her

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newborn daughter were crushed to death inside the

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Chapramari Forest.

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And so that was, I went and I

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visited that area.

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I saw where they had cremated the three

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elephants.

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And at that time, I made a pledge

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that we are going to do everything we

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can to protect the elephants from getting killed

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on those train tracks.

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It breaks my heart every single day when

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I think of the pregnant mom.

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And so now in collaboration with the Forest

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Department, with the Railway Department, and with our

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team, we are really making significant progress.

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And similar situation with the Buxa Tiger Reserve,

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a herd of three elephants dragged 200 feet

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because of the speeding train.

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Just real heartbreaking stories.

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Well, we actually have a video showing that

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elephants travel in large groups.

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And this is one of the reasons why

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the train tracks are so deadly to them.

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Because as you can see here, this is

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video from Voices for African Asian Society, African

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Elephant Society.

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Asian Elephant Society, sorry.

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They're travelling in very large groups.

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And so when this train hits, it wipes

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out an entire family.

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And of course the family is devastated, fractured,

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doesn't really know how to pick up the

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pieces.

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So this is the device.

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You're looking at it right there.

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It's a high-tech device and artificial intelligence

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is making it even more efficient.

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So this is the next iteration.

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It keeps getting more and more sophisticated.

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I urge everybody, if you care about this

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issue, we're driving animals into extinction.

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And these high-tech methods can truly save

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African elephants.

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But I was also talking to a rescuer,

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an animal advocate who's working with elephants in

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Africa.

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And he was extremely excited upon hearing about

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this, saying that this could help African elephants

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too.

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I mean, could this be deployed worldwide?

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Yeah, actually, yeah.

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What we are doing is we are installing

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these to protect Asian elephants in India, just

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to kind of be clear.

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And then in Africa also, there are similar

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human elephant conflicts that railway tracks, road tracks,

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all these, they actually enter the core elephant

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areas.

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This is absolutely sort of transferable to any

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location, not just to save elephants, but to

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save all wildlife.

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Can you imagine if we had something like

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this that can alert us?

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It's just that they need to be installed

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at certain levels and all of the computer

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programming needs to be changed for specific animals.

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Like for instance, if it is a cougar,

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or if it is fox, or if it's

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tiger, we have different modules for that, right?

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But for elephants, it's a totally different, these

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are all Asian elephants that you're seeing, all

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of them in India.

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And my work is entirely focused in India.

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And these devices, are being installed in the

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Northeastern state of West Bengal.

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And these elephants, you're seeing wild elephants, I

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had actually filmed them in Assam, which is

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the state very much next to the West

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Bengal state.

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And look at how gorgeous and stunningly beautiful

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they are.

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How can we allow these mesmerising majestic creatures

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to perish?

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So we really, all of us have to

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come together to protect them, because they play

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a critical role in the forest ecosystems.

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Oh, for sure.

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And you're doing so much, just that would

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be enough.

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But Sangeeta Iyer through her organisation, and I

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urge everyone watching, just donate something, even $10,

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become a monthly donor, $10 a month, $5

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a month, $25 a month, or feel free

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if you're rolling in it to give 50

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,000, the sky's the limit.

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But the great thing about this organisation is

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it's not theoretical.

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Every cent goes into actually purchasing these devices,

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and other devices that we're going to get

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to that are equally high tech and really

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transforming the lives of elephants in India.

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So what kind of press have you gotten

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on this in India?

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Because so often animal rights advances are ignored.

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But this one I would think in India

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would get a lot of good press.

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Absolutely.

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And yes, when we launched it in 2022,

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it was almost like a statewide coverage.

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And we've got all of the press stories

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on our website, vfaes.org, O-R-G.

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And all of the information in terms of

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even how they function, the basic information is

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available.

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And you see images of all of us

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coming together as a team, that is the

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forest, the railway, the real estate, I'm sorry,

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the T-estate people, real estate, the T

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-estate people, all of us coming together working

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collaboratively.

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And that's yet another thing, Jane, and you

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are the epitome of collaboration, to be honest

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with you.

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Because when we work together, we can achieve

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so much.

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But when we start working in fragments, nobody

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knows what the other person is doing.

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And we can all learn from each other,

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right?

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Because not one individual has all the solutions,

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but one individual has one solution that can

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be transferred to other places, as you mentioned,

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like maybe take what we're doing in India

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over to Africa.

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And, you know, that's the way to save

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all of the animals, right?

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Because they are being diminished at an unprecedented

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rate at this point.

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And one of the reasons is that, oh,

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my gosh, this is another incredible technological advance

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that you've made.

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What we're looking at here is an elephant,

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right?

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00:11:51,980 --> 00:11:55,140
This looks like an actual, real elephant being

273
00:11:55,140 --> 00:11:57,460
used in a religious ritual.

274
00:11:58,020 --> 00:11:59,320
But guess what?

275
00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:03,340
This is not a real elephant, because real

276
00:12:03,340 --> 00:12:06,780
elephants, when they're used in these religious rituals,

277
00:12:06,780 --> 00:12:07,980
are often tortured.

278
00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:10,720
In fact, I would say they are tortured,

279
00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:11,820
period, end of story.

280
00:12:12,260 --> 00:12:15,160
But this is a robotic elephant that looks

281
00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:19,280
so much like a real elephant that it's

282
00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:24,140
now in demand by temples in India who

283
00:12:24,140 --> 00:12:26,420
would like to switch out to these robotic

284
00:12:26,420 --> 00:12:30,040
elephants so they don't have to capture elephants

285
00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:33,340
from the wild, kill like half the herd,

286
00:12:33,560 --> 00:12:37,240
break them, keep them in shackles, whip them,

287
00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:39,160
all the other things that go along with

288
00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:40,780
making elephants perform.

289
00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:44,720
So can you tell us about what you've

290
00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:48,480
done with that incredible high-tech solution to

291
00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:52,440
the problems of elephants being abused as part

292
00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:54,080
of religious rituals?

293
00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:56,800
So thank you for asking that question.

294
00:12:56,920 --> 00:12:59,200
It all began in 2016, you might remember.

295
00:12:59,340 --> 00:13:02,140
And, of course, Unchained TV is carrying the

296
00:13:02,140 --> 00:13:04,420
movie Gods and Shackles on your channel, right?

297
00:13:05,100 --> 00:13:07,440
And so when I launched the film Gods

298
00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:10,940
and Shackles, I was devastated to witness these

299
00:13:10,940 --> 00:13:15,360
majestic beings completely enslaved, shackles cutting into their

300
00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:19,500
flesh, on their ankles, pus oozing, tears flowing

301
00:13:19,500 --> 00:13:22,900
down their faces, massive tumours on their bodies.

302
00:13:23,220 --> 00:13:24,760
And I said I needed to do something.

303
00:13:24,900 --> 00:13:27,100
And I thought, well, producing a film and

304
00:13:27,100 --> 00:13:29,560
creating awareness is all I was going to

305
00:13:29,560 --> 00:13:29,720
do.

306
00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:32,980
But no, actually what happened with that film

307
00:13:32,980 --> 00:13:36,600
is it created an incredible sense of awareness

308
00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:41,760
that now the Kerala High Court is intervening.

309
00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:43,940
So let me speak about that a little

310
00:13:43,940 --> 00:13:46,020
bit before we get into the robotic elephant

311
00:13:46,020 --> 00:13:47,960
and the advancements we are making, if that's

312
00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:48,620
okay with you.

313
00:13:48,860 --> 00:13:49,280
Yes.

314
00:13:49,660 --> 00:13:52,300
So what happened is that there's this one

315
00:13:52,300 --> 00:13:53,440
particular temple.

316
00:13:53,660 --> 00:13:56,820
It has been actually designated as a United

317
00:13:56,820 --> 00:13:59,860
States heritage site, right?

318
00:14:00,340 --> 00:14:01,260
UN heritage.

319
00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:03,440
Yeah, exactly.

320
00:14:03,860 --> 00:14:06,560
It's not United States, excuse me, United Nations

321
00:14:06,560 --> 00:14:07,880
heritage site.

322
00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:11,060
And so that place is called the Guruvayur

323
00:14:11,060 --> 00:14:11,700
temple.

324
00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:15,820
And in that temple, they had, when I

325
00:14:15,820 --> 00:14:17,860
filmed Gods and Shackles, because there's a segment

326
00:14:17,860 --> 00:14:21,780
about this temple, they had some 52 elephants.

327
00:14:22,500 --> 00:14:24,980
Today they have only 38 elephants.

328
00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:28,200
All of them have died miserable deaths.

329
00:14:28,580 --> 00:14:31,100
And when I was filming, I still remember

330
00:14:31,100 --> 00:14:35,760
so vividly, Jane, it was just heartbreaking to

331
00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:37,900
see this one elephant trying to break his

332
00:14:37,900 --> 00:14:38,380
chain.

333
00:14:38,780 --> 00:14:41,100
It's almost like he kept lifting and that's

334
00:14:41,100 --> 00:14:42,740
the image that you just shared.

335
00:14:43,140 --> 00:14:45,760
He was just lifting his leg and almost

336
00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:49,140
showing me, do something, do something for us.

337
00:14:49,540 --> 00:14:52,600
And then I was filming, he took some

338
00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:54,760
mud on his trunk and he tossed the

339
00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:55,380
mud at me.

340
00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:57,140
It's like, get out of here or do

341
00:14:57,140 --> 00:14:58,020
something for me.

342
00:14:58,380 --> 00:15:00,620
There's this communication I was feeling with him.

343
00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:02,900
And I thought to myself, oh God, not

344
00:15:02,900 --> 00:15:05,540
just exposing these films, I got to take

345
00:15:05,540 --> 00:15:06,580
some court action.

346
00:15:07,020 --> 00:15:10,220
So I filed a Kerala high court case

347
00:15:10,220 --> 00:15:11,460
in 2022.

348
00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:16,140
Everything I documented in that film confined to

349
00:15:16,140 --> 00:15:19,680
merely 19 acres were 52 elephants.

350
00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:22,960
Now there are only 39 elephants, but according

351
00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:26,020
to the Central Zoo Authority, each elephant needs

352
00:15:26,020 --> 00:15:30,120
a minimum of 1.2 acre space.

353
00:15:30,780 --> 00:15:33,660
And then the painful chains cutting into their

354
00:15:33,660 --> 00:15:38,180
skin so tightly, so severely tied up, all

355
00:15:38,180 --> 00:15:41,820
four legs shackled and they're standing on their

356
00:15:41,820 --> 00:15:43,240
own urine and excrement.

357
00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:46,240
This is not only causing foot rot, but

358
00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:49,500
also deadly diseases like tuberculosis, herpes, and all

359
00:15:49,500 --> 00:15:50,100
of these things.

360
00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:54,500
A miserable lifetime of isolation, nowhere to go,

361
00:15:54,820 --> 00:15:56,300
nobody to socialise with.

362
00:15:56,640 --> 00:16:00,340
Elephants are supremely intelligent and highly social animals.

363
00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:02,940
The images that you're seeing right now is

364
00:16:02,940 --> 00:16:04,380
from our camera trap.

365
00:16:04,820 --> 00:16:09,520
Elephants crossing over the train tracks safely because

366
00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:11,660
of the installation of the EleSense device.

367
00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:14,240
But what I'm talking about here is the

368
00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:17,460
captive elephants, they live in real filthy, filthy

369
00:16:17,460 --> 00:16:18,100
conditions.

370
00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:20,280
And so I said, you know, I got

371
00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:20,900
to do something.

372
00:16:21,020 --> 00:16:23,360
There's this one particular elephant in captivity.

373
00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:25,600
His name was Mukundan.

374
00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:30,460
And his heartbreaking story, he was actually crippled.

375
00:16:30,860 --> 00:16:36,560
His entire front left leg was so twisted

376
00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:39,820
that he had to walk with three legs.

377
00:16:40,500 --> 00:16:43,760
And elephants are so heavy, they bear their

378
00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:46,120
weight on the four legs.

379
00:16:46,220 --> 00:16:48,620
It's like the four pillars that bear their

380
00:16:48,620 --> 00:16:49,820
body's weight.

381
00:16:50,300 --> 00:16:54,380
But this guy who's only 44 years old,

382
00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:56,660
he'd been brutally made limb.

383
00:16:57,140 --> 00:17:00,180
And then in spite of him being limb,

384
00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:01,940
they were chaining him.

385
00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:05,619
How can this poor animal hurt anybody?

386
00:17:05,819 --> 00:17:11,180
He doesn't have any desire to even live,

387
00:17:11,540 --> 00:17:13,599
let alone trying to fight for his own

388
00:17:13,599 --> 00:17:14,040
life.

389
00:17:14,660 --> 00:17:17,260
Sadly, just about a month and a half

390
00:17:17,260 --> 00:17:21,020
ago, thankfully also he passed away, but he

391
00:17:21,020 --> 00:17:22,839
died a miserable death.

392
00:17:23,460 --> 00:17:26,079
And so I launched this court case, giving

393
00:17:26,079 --> 00:17:29,060
all of the information and I'm so excited

394
00:17:29,060 --> 00:17:31,420
to share with you that the Animal Welfare

395
00:17:31,420 --> 00:17:34,900
Board of India and the Central Zoo Authority,

396
00:17:35,120 --> 00:17:38,940
they visited this location and the Kerala High

397
00:17:38,940 --> 00:17:43,100
Court constituted a fantastic committee.

398
00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:46,100
They all went and they inspected this area

399
00:17:46,100 --> 00:17:49,560
and everything that I had pointed in that

400
00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:52,880
documentation, they completely, I just felt so vindicated.

401
00:17:53,060 --> 00:17:54,060
It's not even funny.

402
00:17:54,420 --> 00:17:57,660
I just felt so vindicated because everything I

403
00:17:57,660 --> 00:17:58,860
said, they said, okay.

404
00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:01,480
And here's amazing news.

405
00:18:01,860 --> 00:18:04,120
Six of the elephants that are kept in

406
00:18:04,120 --> 00:18:07,220
miserable conditions, the Animal Welfare Board of India

407
00:18:07,220 --> 00:18:10,180
has asked them to be relocated immediately.

408
00:18:11,540 --> 00:18:14,120
Move to a rehab centre because of our

409
00:18:14,120 --> 00:18:14,820
court case.

410
00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:17,960
And the other thing that has happened with

411
00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:20,200
the Kerala High Court, another breaking news is

412
00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:23,760
not a single elephant can be ever transferred

413
00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:26,980
from any other state for parading.

414
00:18:27,300 --> 00:18:28,520
That's it, period.

415
00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:30,840
You guys work with what you guys have

416
00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:31,420
right now.

417
00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:33,980
And over and beyond that, the Kerala High

418
00:18:33,980 --> 00:18:38,200
Court has provided some incredible guidelines.

419
00:18:38,420 --> 00:18:41,000
If you don't adhere to these guidelines, if

420
00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:44,060
you flout any of these guidelines, you will

421
00:18:44,060 --> 00:18:46,600
face the most stringent penalties.

422
00:18:47,100 --> 00:18:51,620
And again, everything's like a, how would you

423
00:18:51,620 --> 00:18:54,660
say, cascading effect from the gods in shackles

424
00:18:54,660 --> 00:18:56,140
to people being aware.

425
00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:59,660
And then there are amazing local activists also.

426
00:19:00,100 --> 00:19:02,840
After the movie was released, they all started

427
00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:04,220
speaking out boldly.

428
00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:06,240
It's almost like they had the permission now

429
00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:07,380
to talk.

430
00:19:07,460 --> 00:19:09,520
It's like, come on, let's end this.

431
00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:12,080
And so- I just wanna jump in

432
00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:14,040
and say, first of all, kudos.

433
00:19:14,700 --> 00:19:17,860
This is just an incredible example of how

434
00:19:17,860 --> 00:19:21,860
one person determined, okay, can make a difference.

435
00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:25,640
Because you saw that, you saw the horrific

436
00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:28,500
condition of these elephants in the temple.

437
00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:30,400
You made a vow that you were gonna

438
00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:31,340
help these elephants.

439
00:19:32,100 --> 00:19:36,020
You took legal action because you did a

440
00:19:36,020 --> 00:19:40,100
documentary called Gods in Shackles, which is streaming

441
00:19:40,100 --> 00:19:41,160
on Unchained TV.

442
00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:44,960
Just go to Unchained TV and you can

443
00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:46,600
watch it for free.

444
00:19:46,860 --> 00:19:50,640
It is a really spectacular documentary that has

445
00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:54,180
won awards, but it also provides the evidence.

446
00:19:54,180 --> 00:19:57,880
In other words, the evidence is right there

447
00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:01,520
for the legal authorities to see.

448
00:20:02,020 --> 00:20:04,400
And that's why, if you had just gone

449
00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:07,740
there without videotaped evidence, you would not have

450
00:20:07,740 --> 00:20:09,440
had the same outcome.

451
00:20:09,740 --> 00:20:12,380
But you had videotaped evidence of what's happening

452
00:20:12,380 --> 00:20:13,020
to these elephants.

453
00:20:13,620 --> 00:20:16,440
So you said, just to recap, six of

454
00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:18,580
them have to be moved out through a

455
00:20:18,580 --> 00:20:18,940
sanctuary.

456
00:20:19,780 --> 00:20:21,220
And so that leaves 32.

457
00:20:22,360 --> 00:20:25,520
And no more coming in.

458
00:20:25,660 --> 00:20:26,880
No more coming in.

459
00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:29,400
And so here's yet another thing, right?

460
00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:33,620
So these 32 elephants, now they're crammed into

461
00:20:33,620 --> 00:20:35,920
a 19 acre land.

462
00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:39,820
But the Animal Welfare Board of India has

463
00:20:39,820 --> 00:20:42,640
actually said, no, you got to create more

464
00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:43,060
space.

465
00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:46,220
They have, like this temple has 60 to

466
00:20:46,220 --> 00:20:48,240
80 acres of land.

467
00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:51,480
So the Animal Welfare Board of India has

468
00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:55,720
stipulated that one single elephant has to have

469
00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:58,880
a minimum of 1.2 acres.

470
00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:02,680
Number two, no more iron chains.

471
00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:05,800
The iron chains need to have sheathing, or

472
00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:08,180
you have to put rope around their legs.

473
00:21:08,620 --> 00:21:10,980
Not all four legs can be tethered.

474
00:21:11,340 --> 00:21:14,600
Only one leg can be tethered if necessary.

475
00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:17,600
Otherwise, allow them to be in their enclosure.

476
00:21:18,300 --> 00:21:21,060
Routine health checks for every, I'm reading it

477
00:21:21,060 --> 00:21:24,460
out of all of the results that the

478
00:21:24,460 --> 00:21:26,780
Animal Welfare Board of India has recommended, that

479
00:21:26,780 --> 00:21:29,660
routine health checks in order to make sure

480
00:21:29,660 --> 00:21:32,240
that they don't have herpes, or they don't

481
00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:33,080
have tuberculosis.

482
00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:36,560
First and foremost, ensuring that all of them

483
00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:38,780
have shades over their head.

484
00:21:39,220 --> 00:21:42,960
Out of these 39 elephants, at least 17

485
00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:45,700
of them have no shelter to shade them

486
00:21:45,700 --> 00:21:48,280
from the sun, the scorching sun of India.

487
00:21:48,860 --> 00:21:50,740
And so that is yet another thing.

488
00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:52,900
And water, like there's no water.

489
00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:57,560
I actually documented one elephant just desperately trying

490
00:21:57,560 --> 00:21:59,880
to reach and drink water.

491
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:01,060
He couldn't even reach.

492
00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:04,860
And this is a religious temple?

493
00:22:05,460 --> 00:22:05,960
Yes.

494
00:22:06,420 --> 00:22:08,820
And this cruelty is happening in the name

495
00:22:08,820 --> 00:22:09,660
of religion?

496
00:22:10,140 --> 00:22:12,260
In the name of culture and religion, exactly.

497
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:14,560
And that's the irony of it all in

498
00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:15,120
India.

499
00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:16,900
I have questions.

500
00:22:17,380 --> 00:22:17,800
Yes.

501
00:22:18,100 --> 00:22:21,240
You're saying, was this a UNESCO World Heritage

502
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:21,680
Site?

503
00:22:22,140 --> 00:22:22,560
Exactly.

504
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:25,840
How is it possible that the folks from

505
00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:28,860
the UNESCO World Heritage Foundation, or whatever they

506
00:22:28,860 --> 00:22:32,840
call it, didn't see this and say, there's

507
00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:33,600
a problem here?

508
00:22:33,940 --> 00:22:37,980
Because the temple is located in one area.

509
00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:41,040
And this, I call this an elephant concentration

510
00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:41,540
camp.

511
00:22:41,740 --> 00:22:44,680
This concentration camp for elephants is located in

512
00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:45,760
a different area.

513
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:48,300
So what UNESCO people did was just, and

514
00:22:48,300 --> 00:22:49,720
I even contacted them.

515
00:22:49,980 --> 00:22:52,580
And I said, you have given this temple

516
00:22:52,580 --> 00:22:55,380
the World Heritage Site status.

517
00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:57,580
And this is how they treat elephants.

518
00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:00,640
Then the woman said, well, this has something

519
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:02,020
to do with culture.

520
00:23:02,380 --> 00:23:04,700
I'm like, well, so because it has to

521
00:23:04,700 --> 00:23:07,400
do with culture, does that mean that they

522
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:09,500
treat the animals in any which way they

523
00:23:09,500 --> 00:23:12,720
want, like with such utter cruelty and disdain

524
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:13,340
and disregard?

525
00:23:13,700 --> 00:23:15,580
And they couldn't answer the question.

526
00:23:15,700 --> 00:23:17,880
So I'm sure maybe you and I can

527
00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:22,060
talk and figure out a way to maybe

528
00:23:22,060 --> 00:23:24,640
come up with something like a campaign or

529
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:24,980
something.

530
00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:28,200
Well, I mean, I've been to UNESCO World

531
00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:31,000
Heritage Sites and they're always spectacular.

532
00:23:31,620 --> 00:23:32,620
And you learn a lot.

533
00:23:32,740 --> 00:23:33,340
They're historic.

534
00:23:33,540 --> 00:23:34,500
There's very few of them.

535
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:36,020
It's a big planet.

536
00:23:36,460 --> 00:23:39,860
And so I think that shame on them.

537
00:23:40,340 --> 00:23:42,820
And now you have the backing of the

538
00:23:42,820 --> 00:23:43,360
authorities.

539
00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:45,540
It's not just you saying it.

540
00:23:45,540 --> 00:23:47,660
So my question to you is, have you

541
00:23:47,660 --> 00:23:51,420
taken the decision of the authorities in India

542
00:23:51,420 --> 00:23:53,560
that sided with you about the conditions?

543
00:23:53,700 --> 00:23:55,260
And have you gone back to the UNESCO

544
00:23:55,260 --> 00:23:58,040
World Heritage Organisation to say, here.

545
00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:00,080
So not yet.

546
00:24:00,220 --> 00:24:02,240
There's a reason why we haven't done that.

547
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:05,760
So the report has been produced by the

548
00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:08,260
AWBI, Animal Welfare Board of India and the

549
00:24:08,260 --> 00:24:10,660
Central Zoo Authority, and has been submitted to

550
00:24:10,660 --> 00:24:11,640
the Kerala High Court.

551
00:24:11,980 --> 00:24:13,140
Now there are going to be a few

552
00:24:13,140 --> 00:24:15,100
more hearings because that temple is going to

553
00:24:15,100 --> 00:24:17,480
come back and say, oh, blah, blah, blah,

554
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:17,700
blah.

555
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:18,760
You know how it goes, right?

556
00:24:18,820 --> 00:24:20,560
They're going to come back and start arguing.

557
00:24:20,820 --> 00:24:22,380
And that argument will go on for a

558
00:24:22,380 --> 00:24:22,760
little while.

559
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:26,660
But this is huge news because the Animal

560
00:24:26,660 --> 00:24:28,780
Welfare Board of India and the Central Zoo

561
00:24:28,780 --> 00:24:31,440
Authority have sided with what we have observed.

562
00:24:32,500 --> 00:24:35,460
Ultimately, I am absolutely certain that the Kerala

563
00:24:35,460 --> 00:24:38,300
High Court will make a proper judgement.

564
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:42,320
And when that judgement is received, that's when

565
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:44,720
we can take that judgement and we can

566
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:45,160
then go.

567
00:24:45,260 --> 00:24:46,740
So this is still a long ways to

568
00:24:46,740 --> 00:24:49,780
go, maybe about a year, because the wheels

569
00:24:49,780 --> 00:24:52,560
of justice turns ever so slowly, as we

570
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:53,680
all know, around the world.

571
00:24:53,780 --> 00:24:56,400
A couple of questions then, will the six

572
00:24:56,400 --> 00:25:00,460
elephants, will they be transferred before the end

573
00:25:00,460 --> 00:25:01,800
of the court case or are they stuck

574
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:03,360
there until the end of the court case?

575
00:25:03,780 --> 00:25:06,740
So that's one of the things that we

576
00:25:06,740 --> 00:25:08,940
are watching, because I think the court hearing

577
00:25:08,940 --> 00:25:10,680
is on the 14th, which is tomorrow.

578
00:25:11,660 --> 00:25:13,740
And of course, the arguments will go on

579
00:25:13,740 --> 00:25:15,380
for a few weeks, months.

580
00:25:15,940 --> 00:25:19,000
And we are hoping that we'll receive a

581
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:21,120
judgement early next year.

582
00:25:21,220 --> 00:25:23,280
So it's still a few months to bear.

583
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:25,440
And I know these elephants have been there

584
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:26,420
for decades.

585
00:25:26,620 --> 00:25:28,440
And so, I mean, as much as we

586
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:30,840
would like to move them right now, that

587
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:33,720
may not be possible because of the fact

588
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:35,560
that the Kerala High Court needs to give

589
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:36,020
the judgement.

590
00:25:36,630 --> 00:25:38,400
And I just have to say, we invite

591
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:42,940
anybody involved, the UNESCO World Heritage Organisation, the

592
00:25:42,940 --> 00:25:46,480
temple itself, on Unchained TV, anytime.

593
00:25:46,780 --> 00:25:49,060
We would love to dialogue with you and

594
00:25:49,060 --> 00:25:51,460
get your side of the story and get

595
00:25:51,460 --> 00:25:54,900
your response to what Sangeeta has documented.

596
00:25:55,420 --> 00:25:57,280
Meanwhile, all of us can take action.

597
00:25:57,420 --> 00:25:59,300
We're not powerless, because people are like, oh

598
00:25:59,300 --> 00:26:00,300
my gosh, oh no.

599
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:05,580
Yeah, you can donate to VFAES.org.

600
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:10,000
That stands for Voices for Asian Elephants Society

601
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:11,440
.org.

602
00:26:11,740 --> 00:26:14,760
And your money will go directly to creating

603
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:15,260
alternatives.

604
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:18,400
So I want Lindsay to play a clip

605
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,360
of you describing the robotic elephants.

606
00:26:21,420 --> 00:26:23,280
Because let me just say this, all of

607
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:25,560
this is happening because they're using live elephants

608
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,420
in religious temples and religious ceremonies.

609
00:26:29,060 --> 00:26:31,900
Now, Sangeeta, through her organisation, has developed these

610
00:26:31,900 --> 00:26:35,300
incredibly lifelike robotic elephants.

611
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:39,300
Let's hear her describe these elephants, and then

612
00:26:39,300 --> 00:26:41,260
we're going to talk about it on the

613
00:26:41,260 --> 00:26:42,040
other side.

614
00:26:42,500 --> 00:26:42,680
Great.

615
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:48,200
Just look at this majestic elephant.

616
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:49,640
Doesn't he look real?

617
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:54,660
Well, actually, he is a robotic elephant, and

618
00:26:54,660 --> 00:26:59,760
Voices for Asian Elephants has donated this beautiful

619
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:03,000
majestic elephant to a temple in the Gudaloo

620
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,860
district of Tamil Nadu, the first ever in

621
00:27:05,860 --> 00:27:06,460
the state.

622
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:10,340
And this particular district actually borders Kerala.

623
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:15,180
And the purpose of providing this robotic elephant

624
00:27:15,180 --> 00:27:19,020
is to replace live elephants and end elephant

625
00:27:19,020 --> 00:27:19,520
torture.

626
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:22,040
But just look at his eye.

627
00:27:22,580 --> 00:27:25,560
It moves as though this is actually a

628
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:26,600
real elephant.

629
00:27:26,860 --> 00:27:28,060
Look at the eyelashes.

630
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:30,620
Look at the texture of his skin.

631
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:34,480
This whole robotic elephant was designed by Prasant,

632
00:27:34,780 --> 00:27:38,860
who owns this organisation called HEARTS.

633
00:27:39,060 --> 00:27:40,840
That is H E dash R.

634
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:47,080
This is just the very first robotic elephant

635
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:50,360
that Voices for Asian Elephants has sponsored with

636
00:27:50,360 --> 00:27:52,000
the support of Ganesh Hariharan.

637
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:56,220
And the mission is to promote humane treatment

638
00:27:56,220 --> 00:27:59,760
of elephants, while at the same time preserve

639
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:02,400
India's rich culture and heritage.

640
00:28:03,980 --> 00:28:05,820
Wow, that is so exciting.

641
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:09,400
And I think that everybody there looked very

642
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:09,860
excited.

643
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:11,640
It's not a sacrifice.

644
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:15,180
I mean, the robotic elephants are super cool.

645
00:28:15,380 --> 00:28:17,700
So you're saying that this is getting a

646
00:28:17,700 --> 00:28:19,940
lot of news media coverage in India.

647
00:28:20,420 --> 00:28:22,180
Look, there are a lot of very wealthy

648
00:28:22,180 --> 00:28:25,100
people in India, tech billionaires.

649
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:26,520
Have you been able to reach them?

650
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:30,380
Because with pocket change, they could have not

651
00:28:30,380 --> 00:28:35,440
only the high-tech train devices, but the

652
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:39,740
robotic elephants, they could solve this with the

653
00:28:39,740 --> 00:28:43,060
amount of money that it takes to get

654
00:28:43,060 --> 00:28:44,700
on a private jet and go somewhere.

655
00:28:44,700 --> 00:28:46,000
Yeah, absolutely.

656
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:48,720
And it's not about how much they have,

657
00:28:48,780 --> 00:28:49,760
but it's the willingness.

658
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:52,660
It's that some of them, or I would

659
00:28:52,660 --> 00:28:55,140
say most of them, are unwilling to even

660
00:28:55,140 --> 00:28:55,660
consider.

661
00:28:55,980 --> 00:28:57,300
But let me tell you this.

662
00:28:57,380 --> 00:29:00,260
The first robotic elephant was launched in February

663
00:29:00,260 --> 00:29:02,940
of this year, and we are launching the

664
00:29:02,940 --> 00:29:07,320
next robotic elephant in February 2025, thanks to

665
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:08,280
Dolores Whitley.

666
00:29:08,740 --> 00:29:13,120
She fully sponsored that particular robotic elephant that

667
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:14,340
we are about to launch.

668
00:29:14,980 --> 00:29:17,540
And we won't be able to share the

669
00:29:17,540 --> 00:29:19,820
exact location, but what I can do is

670
00:29:19,820 --> 00:29:22,820
when I am there, and after the ceremonies

671
00:29:22,820 --> 00:29:25,800
are done, I will share with you the

672
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:27,920
images and videos, and you can do with

673
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:28,720
it what you wish.

674
00:29:29,100 --> 00:29:32,120
But that's how we're going to continue to

675
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:38,140
end elephant slavery and elephant abuse, because we

676
00:29:38,140 --> 00:29:39,460
are providing alternatives.

677
00:29:39,460 --> 00:29:41,060
It's one thing for us to go there

678
00:29:41,060 --> 00:29:42,720
and say, no, no, no, no, don't use

679
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:43,120
elephants.

680
00:29:43,420 --> 00:29:45,840
We are not offending any of them because

681
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:48,040
we are saying, hey, we honour and respect

682
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:49,820
your rich culture and traditions.

683
00:29:51,300 --> 00:29:54,740
But the thing with the Indian culture also

684
00:29:54,740 --> 00:29:58,980
is that Hindu philosophies are grounded in ahimsa,

685
00:29:59,140 --> 00:30:00,580
which is nonviolence.

686
00:30:00,940 --> 00:30:03,000
And then when you awaken these people and

687
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:07,320
remind them that, hey, everything you're doing goes

688
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:10,860
against our philosophies, so kind of in a

689
00:30:10,860 --> 00:30:14,240
gentle manner, nudging them and using the power

690
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:16,840
of culture and religion to change their way

691
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:17,860
of thinking, right?

692
00:30:18,300 --> 00:30:21,040
They are being misinterpreted, all of the religious

693
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:22,960
scriptures and cultural stuff.

694
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:25,600
So it's our job to kind of help

695
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:28,120
them unlearn and then relearn the new way.

696
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:30,920
And by the way, if you're watching this

697
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:34,880
on social media, share it out, because you

698
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:36,920
could hit one person that might decide, you

699
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:38,280
know what, I just got a bonus.

700
00:30:38,460 --> 00:30:40,960
I'm going to give it to Sangeeta and

701
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:44,460
the Voices for Asian Elephant Society.

702
00:30:44,620 --> 00:30:45,060
Go ahead.

703
00:30:46,060 --> 00:30:49,220
Yeah, I just wanted to say that since

704
00:30:49,220 --> 00:30:52,440
it's a religious ceremony and it's about symbolism,

705
00:30:53,100 --> 00:30:57,040
the robotic elephants serve the purpose beautifully.

706
00:30:57,340 --> 00:30:58,580
So that's a great thing.

707
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:03,280
And my question is, how much per elephant

708
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:04,800
robotic does it cost?

709
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:06,980
Go ahead.

710
00:31:07,180 --> 00:31:07,300
Sorry.

711
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:08,620
Yeah, no, no, no, go ahead.

712
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:09,680
So it varies.

713
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:13,880
It just the manufacturing of the elephant itself

714
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:16,880
costs some six lakhs, that is, oh, God,

715
00:31:16,980 --> 00:31:20,160
that's 600,000 rupees, right?

716
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:22,460
When we convert it, I think it works

717
00:31:22,460 --> 00:31:26,500
out to something like 6,000 or 7

718
00:31:26,500 --> 00:31:27,840
,000 US dollars.

719
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:30,620
But then there is additional costs involved in

720
00:31:30,620 --> 00:31:33,000
terms of transportation, in terms of creating the

721
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:36,720
ornaments, in terms of creating all kinds of

722
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:39,820
additional stuff, right, for the elephant to be

723
00:31:39,820 --> 00:31:43,120
transported or to be placed upon so that

724
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:45,440
he can be then toured across because they

725
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,440
put him on a wheel, something, and then

726
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:51,120
they drag the robotic elephant around just the

727
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:54,060
way they do with live elephants instead of,

728
00:31:54,180 --> 00:31:56,540
you know, harassing and abusing those elephants.

729
00:31:56,700 --> 00:32:01,120
So it costs anywhere between 7,000 to

730
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:04,100
10,000 US dollars, all inclusive.

731
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:06,260
And one of the things we also do

732
00:32:06,260 --> 00:32:09,800
is we also have like, you know, legal

733
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:13,880
requirements, ensuring that they are not misusing or

734
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:15,780
abusing that all of these things.

735
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:18,240
If there's a problem with the maintenance, then

736
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:20,520
the temple would take charge of taking care

737
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:23,080
of it, look after the elephant, because then

738
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:24,600
there's a sense of accountability.

739
00:32:25,420 --> 00:32:27,940
So yes, it's between somewhere between 8,000,

740
00:32:28,020 --> 00:32:28,680
10,000 bucks.

741
00:32:28,820 --> 00:32:32,480
Is it electric, or is it charged?

742
00:32:32,540 --> 00:32:34,460
Do you charge it or is battery powered?

743
00:32:34,580 --> 00:32:35,220
How does it work?

744
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:39,200
It's battery powered, and it's AI powered and

745
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:40,000
battery powered.

746
00:32:40,260 --> 00:32:41,800
And so this is the thing.

747
00:32:41,860 --> 00:32:45,260
It's not just the ear flapping, but this

748
00:32:45,260 --> 00:32:49,700
elephant can also actually squirt water on you.

749
00:32:49,860 --> 00:32:52,200
That's the kind of blessings that the real

750
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:53,120
elephants provide.

751
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:54,800
So they have that.

752
00:32:55,020 --> 00:32:58,220
And then there's also the tail, also in

753
00:32:58,220 --> 00:33:00,000
the backside, you know, moves.

754
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:02,140
And so there's a whole bunch of movement

755
00:33:02,140 --> 00:33:03,000
things happening.

756
00:33:03,220 --> 00:33:04,900
It's completely battery operated.

757
00:33:05,780 --> 00:33:07,740
Oh, my gosh, that's incredible.

758
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:11,640
So $10,000 there's, I think, let me

759
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:13,960
ask you this question, because, you know, I've

760
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:15,580
been in this movement for quite a long

761
00:33:15,580 --> 00:33:19,100
time, and I've emceed many galas raising funds.

762
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:22,560
What I've noticed is, if you can name

763
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:25,840
the elephant after the person, yes, that might

764
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:27,020
be the thing.

765
00:33:27,340 --> 00:33:31,260
Because people love to say, I've got something

766
00:33:31,260 --> 00:33:32,500
named after me.

767
00:33:32,580 --> 00:33:33,960
Yeah, that's what we did.

768
00:33:34,060 --> 00:33:35,940
That's what we did with the first elephant.

769
00:33:36,340 --> 00:33:39,280
We named, I asked Ganesh Hariharan, who had

770
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:40,920
sponsored the first elephant.

771
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:48,060
And he actually dedicated that elephant to his

772
00:33:48,060 --> 00:33:49,580
father, his late father.

773
00:33:49,740 --> 00:33:51,820
So we gave the elephant his father's name.

774
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:53,320
Wow.

775
00:33:53,740 --> 00:33:57,960
I'm sorry, I wanted to just put in

776
00:33:57,960 --> 00:33:59,680
there that I know this a little different,

777
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:03,640
but electronic replacement of horse-drawn carriages with

778
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:07,300
electronic carts has done incredibly well, where the

779
00:34:07,300 --> 00:34:10,739
drivers are actually making more money and less

780
00:34:10,739 --> 00:34:11,400
upkeep.

781
00:34:11,540 --> 00:34:14,639
So this may be an economic solution.

782
00:34:15,139 --> 00:34:15,960
So that's great to know.

783
00:34:16,020 --> 00:34:17,040
I just wanted to throw that in.

784
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:17,920
Absolutely.

785
00:34:18,179 --> 00:34:18,320
Absolutely.

786
00:34:18,940 --> 00:34:19,199
Yes.

787
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:22,600
Anytime you take a ride, I'm very ashamed

788
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:24,239
to say, and one of the reasons that

789
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:25,800
I've been trying to do a living immense

790
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:27,880
for many years is, when I went to

791
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:31,100
India many years ago with my mother, we

792
00:34:31,100 --> 00:34:33,080
rode on an elephant and I didn't know

793
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:33,440
better.

794
00:34:34,219 --> 00:34:36,239
I said, oh, I love elephants.

795
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:38,920
And then, oh, thinking that it was fun

796
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:43,060
for them not knowing that it involved such

797
00:34:43,060 --> 00:34:43,699
torture.

798
00:34:44,020 --> 00:34:46,600
And I'm ashamed of myself, even though that

799
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:53,219
was, my gosh, back in 1993 or four.

800
00:34:53,219 --> 00:34:56,740
But I've been seeking to do a living

801
00:34:56,740 --> 00:34:59,060
immense ever since to make up for it.

802
00:34:59,140 --> 00:35:02,100
And let's talk a little bit about that.

803
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:05,540
Part of the exploitation of India's elephants is

804
00:35:05,540 --> 00:35:08,000
for tourism, right, Sangeeta?

805
00:35:08,580 --> 00:35:11,460
Well, for the most part, unlike Thailand, there's

806
00:35:11,460 --> 00:35:13,060
a little bit of difference between what happens

807
00:35:13,060 --> 00:35:14,360
in Thailand and in India.

808
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:18,500
Yes, there is a segment of population who

809
00:35:18,500 --> 00:35:21,240
still thrive on elephant back rides, even in

810
00:35:21,240 --> 00:35:22,700
India, even Indian people.

811
00:35:23,220 --> 00:35:26,420
But out of the 2,600 odd captive

812
00:35:26,420 --> 00:35:30,040
elephants, I think about 3,000 captive elephants,

813
00:35:30,540 --> 00:35:33,580
at least 1,200 to 1,300 of

814
00:35:33,580 --> 00:35:38,000
them are in the religious institutions like the

815
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:40,020
temples, the mosques, and even churches.

816
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:42,740
All of them, because they say, oh, well,

817
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:44,820
if temple is getting, if this temple is

818
00:35:44,820 --> 00:35:47,500
getting a piece of economic pie, why not

819
00:35:47,500 --> 00:35:47,760
me?

820
00:35:48,060 --> 00:35:50,020
And I think Lindsay hit the nail right

821
00:35:50,020 --> 00:35:52,440
on saying that, hey, you guys are actually

822
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:54,420
going to be saving a lot of money

823
00:35:54,420 --> 00:35:56,960
by implementing this robotic elephant.

824
00:35:57,080 --> 00:35:59,260
That's one of the things we actually talked

825
00:35:59,260 --> 00:36:02,280
to the previous temple authorities.

826
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:05,520
And now this other temple authorities with whom

827
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:07,420
we are working right now to sponsor our

828
00:36:07,420 --> 00:36:11,320
February or to launch our February robotic elephant,

829
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:13,820
we're saying the same thing, that upkeep is

830
00:36:13,820 --> 00:36:14,480
much better.

831
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:18,800
And more than anything, there are no stampedes.

832
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:20,420
People are not getting killed.

833
00:36:20,900 --> 00:36:22,160
Elephants are not getting tortured.

834
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:24,500
So it's a win-win situation overall.

835
00:36:24,980 --> 00:36:27,920
Now, where can these elephants go as you

836
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:31,460
replace the living elephants with the robotic elephants?

837
00:36:31,780 --> 00:36:33,720
Again, anybody who wants to get an elephant

838
00:36:33,720 --> 00:36:36,680
named after them, a robot elephant, 10,000

839
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:37,700
bucks, you got it.

840
00:36:38,220 --> 00:36:39,240
It's very tempting.

841
00:36:40,740 --> 00:36:43,780
And so where do the living elephants go?

842
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:46,480
Are there elephant sanctuaries that they can be

843
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:48,360
shipped to immediately where they can live out

844
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:50,020
their lives in peace and serenity?

845
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:51,040
Right.

846
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:52,820
So that's one of the things that the

847
00:36:52,820 --> 00:36:55,860
Kerala High Court as well as the Animal

848
00:36:55,860 --> 00:36:59,200
Welfare Board of India are actually suggesting that

849
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:02,140
there needs to be, there was a sort

850
00:37:02,140 --> 00:37:05,240
of like a contemplation, almost a construction of

851
00:37:05,240 --> 00:37:07,960
a rehab centre that began in 2018.

852
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:11,820
It is still incompleted and it's called the

853
00:37:11,820 --> 00:37:13,620
Kottur Elephant Rehab Centre.

854
00:37:13,780 --> 00:37:15,680
So they have this one rehab centre.

855
00:37:16,060 --> 00:37:18,780
But the problem with that rehab centre is

856
00:37:18,780 --> 00:37:21,820
that they still don't have positive reinforcement training,

857
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:25,000
you know, where there's this, you know, reward,

858
00:37:25,180 --> 00:37:27,580
like you do something good and you, you

859
00:37:27,580 --> 00:37:29,700
know, so you get rewarded with bananas or

860
00:37:29,700 --> 00:37:31,660
all kinds of treats, et cetera, et cetera.

861
00:37:31,900 --> 00:37:35,240
Or there's no foot care, there's no exercise

862
00:37:35,240 --> 00:37:39,740
because elephants are enormous physically, emotionally, they need

863
00:37:39,740 --> 00:37:42,100
to have some kind of a, you know,

864
00:37:42,220 --> 00:37:44,240
enrichment programmes, right?

865
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:46,420
And so those are some of the things

866
00:37:46,420 --> 00:37:50,800
that have been recommended in this report that

867
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:52,780
the Animal Welfare Board of India has provided.

868
00:37:53,240 --> 00:37:56,240
And specifically they have said that Kerala is

869
00:37:56,240 --> 00:37:57,720
an elephant state.

870
00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:00,400
And so you ought to have a rehab

871
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:03,740
centre up and running to take in these

872
00:38:03,740 --> 00:38:07,060
elephants that are either geriatric, that are old,

873
00:38:07,180 --> 00:38:09,620
that are disabled, you know, and the temples

874
00:38:09,620 --> 00:38:14,280
themselves, they can actually create sort of like

875
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:16,900
a 1.2 acre space easily.

876
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:17,700
They're rich.

877
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:20,160
I mean, Indian temples are really rich.

878
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:24,840
Let me ask you this question because Lindsay

879
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:27,700
raised the whole issue of horse-drawn carriages.

880
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:30,020
And in New York City, where I grew

881
00:38:30,020 --> 00:38:33,060
up, it's been a battle, a battle for

882
00:38:33,060 --> 00:38:35,180
decades to get them off the streets.

883
00:38:35,720 --> 00:38:41,000
It's so horrible to watch them navigating police

884
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:44,180
cars, taxi cabs, buses, motorcycles.

885
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:48,620
It's so awful that in the arguably most

886
00:38:48,620 --> 00:38:50,520
important city, this is still happening.

887
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:53,980
They've made some incremental progress of getting them

888
00:38:53,980 --> 00:38:57,500
to be mostly in Central Park as opposed

889
00:38:57,500 --> 00:39:00,880
to navigating up and down like Times Square.

890
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:05,080
However, the news media has never been very

891
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:07,780
friendly toward this whole effort.

892
00:39:07,940 --> 00:39:10,520
And they constantly promote the romance of a

893
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:11,600
horse-drawn carriage.

894
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:14,860
And on Unchained TV, we have a great

895
00:39:14,860 --> 00:39:19,360
episode with the movie star, Kathy Najimy, confronting

896
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:22,160
people about getting on horse-drawn carriages and

897
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:23,780
begging them not to do it.

898
00:39:24,260 --> 00:39:28,240
But in India, is the news media siding

899
00:39:28,240 --> 00:39:31,320
with the old, oh, it's culture, the temple,

900
00:39:31,420 --> 00:39:34,620
or are they siding with, hey, let's get

901
00:39:34,620 --> 00:39:37,540
these animals out of these temples?

902
00:39:37,860 --> 00:39:40,960
And what was their reaction to the findings

903
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:43,320
and the victory you saw in court?

904
00:39:43,780 --> 00:39:46,660
So the findings and the victory in court

905
00:39:46,660 --> 00:39:49,360
are still actually not being released to the

906
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:49,620
media.

907
00:39:49,620 --> 00:39:52,520
But what they have been incredibly supportive of

908
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:54,840
is the launch of our robotic elephant.

909
00:39:54,940 --> 00:39:57,920
Again, on our website, a tonne of media

910
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:02,220
coverage, especially The Hindu, which is like one

911
00:40:02,220 --> 00:40:06,440
of the most highly read, it's like one

912
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:09,480
of the most respected dailies in India.

913
00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:12,300
And so they covered the story.

914
00:40:12,420 --> 00:40:14,140
The BBC covered the story.

915
00:40:14,540 --> 00:40:17,560
And there's a lot of media that actually

916
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:22,400
understands the importance of protecting elephants.

917
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:24,720
And here's the thing, when we released Gods

918
00:40:24,720 --> 00:40:28,460
and Shackles, that is when I believe that

919
00:40:28,460 --> 00:40:31,140
even the media felt kind of, okay, I

920
00:40:31,140 --> 00:40:33,620
have the permission now to speak, right?

921
00:40:33,620 --> 00:40:38,900
Because they were all controlled by the lobby

922
00:40:38,900 --> 00:40:42,480
groups, as we know it, and the politicians,

923
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:45,320
they're all in it together, as we know,

924
00:40:45,580 --> 00:40:46,820
everywhere around the world.

925
00:40:47,220 --> 00:40:48,820
And the only thing we can all do

926
00:40:48,820 --> 00:40:51,340
is collectively come together and talk and empower

927
00:40:51,340 --> 00:40:54,940
even the media by offering them exclusive stories,

928
00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:57,680
talking to them on an ongoing basis, cultivating

929
00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:01,240
relationships, and kind of even ensuring that there's

930
00:41:01,240 --> 00:41:02,160
no both-ism.

931
00:41:02,380 --> 00:41:04,560
When it's torture, it is torture.

932
00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:08,520
You cannot go and ask a temple authority,

933
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:09,760
why do you have elephant?

934
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:12,740
And then a person who is trying to

935
00:41:12,740 --> 00:41:15,820
save the elephant to balance the story.

936
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:17,560
I mean, that's kind of nonsensical.

937
00:41:17,980 --> 00:41:20,380
But I didn't experience any of that.

938
00:41:20,620 --> 00:41:23,640
What happened was the media was very supportive.

939
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:25,760
And as soon as we have the Kerala

940
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:28,920
High Court's decision that comes out, we will

941
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:32,040
definitely do a mass media coverage of that

942
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:32,460
as well.

943
00:41:32,580 --> 00:41:34,800
Okay, when I think of India, and I

944
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:36,840
did visit India with my mom many years

945
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:39,920
ago, and it's such an incredible country, but

946
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:41,660
I also think of Bollywood.

947
00:41:41,980 --> 00:41:45,300
And I know that Bollywood stars are very

948
00:41:45,300 --> 00:41:46,740
influential in India.

949
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:49,360
Have you managed to get any Bollywood stars

950
00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:50,280
on your side?

951
00:41:50,300 --> 00:41:52,420
Because I have a feeling that if you

952
00:41:52,420 --> 00:41:56,060
did, that would be like the tipping point.

953
00:41:56,300 --> 00:42:00,420
Like maybe get one of these robotic elephants

954
00:42:00,420 --> 00:42:02,720
named after a Bollywood star.

955
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:07,440
Or think outside the box, because honestly, I

956
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:09,600
think that we do live in a celebrity

957
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:10,100
culture.

958
00:42:10,340 --> 00:42:11,260
That's just a fact.

959
00:42:11,700 --> 00:42:13,020
And Bollywood is so hot.

960
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:16,080
And these Bollywood stars, I think, would have

961
00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:17,300
huge influence.

962
00:42:18,240 --> 00:42:22,020
Yes, actually, we have reached out to Abraham,

963
00:42:22,260 --> 00:42:23,000
John Abraham.

964
00:42:23,340 --> 00:42:26,920
He's an animal welfare kind of person.

965
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:29,420
And he speaks out against any kind of

966
00:42:29,420 --> 00:42:32,800
cruelty, hurting the dogs or cats and whatever.

967
00:42:33,540 --> 00:42:35,680
They push out a couple of social media

968
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:37,980
posts, but there's nothing more than that.

969
00:42:38,380 --> 00:42:41,920
The kind of animal advocacy we see in

970
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:45,080
Hollywood is what we don't see.

971
00:42:45,220 --> 00:42:48,220
We don't see that kind of love for

972
00:42:48,220 --> 00:42:49,380
animals in Bollywood.

973
00:42:49,740 --> 00:42:52,480
In fact, I even met Priyanka Chopra when

974
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:54,260
I was at the South by Southwest Festival.

975
00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:56,000
I gave her a copy of my book.

976
00:42:56,500 --> 00:42:58,640
And then what we had also done is

977
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:00,880
when we had the Emmy Awards, even the

978
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:04,660
Oscars, we distributed my books as a special

979
00:43:04,660 --> 00:43:07,520
gift to all of those actors, actresses, et

980
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:08,940
cetera, as a special gift.

981
00:43:09,660 --> 00:43:12,040
But who's going to speak out for them?

982
00:43:12,300 --> 00:43:14,620
They're all afraid that, oh, if they spoke

983
00:43:14,620 --> 00:43:16,420
out against the culture, then there's going to

984
00:43:16,420 --> 00:43:18,040
be a backlash and they're going to lose

985
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:18,860
their fans.

986
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:21,840
So it's a very different kind of thinking.

987
00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:25,280
And the culture is very different in India.

988
00:43:25,620 --> 00:43:27,980
Again, I'm not saying that they won't, but

989
00:43:27,980 --> 00:43:30,020
they just don't speak out the way the

990
00:43:30,020 --> 00:43:31,780
Hollywood celebrities speak out.

991
00:43:31,980 --> 00:43:35,940
They come strong and they speak out for

992
00:43:35,940 --> 00:43:36,600
the voice.

993
00:43:36,660 --> 00:43:37,040
Some of them.

994
00:43:37,180 --> 00:43:38,860
Some of them at least.

995
00:43:39,140 --> 00:43:42,400
Like Joaquin Phoenix and Moby and some of

996
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:45,260
the heroes we have, and Billie Eilish.

997
00:43:45,260 --> 00:43:49,280
But they're few and far between, quite honestly.

998
00:43:49,720 --> 00:43:51,660
So I also want to ask you about

999
00:43:51,660 --> 00:43:52,720
politics in India.

1000
00:43:52,980 --> 00:43:54,960
Honestly, I'm not an expert in the political

1001
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:59,060
system and the political infighting in India, but

1002
00:43:59,060 --> 00:44:02,660
where do the politicians stand on all this?

1003
00:44:02,980 --> 00:44:07,160
So the ruling party right now is grounded

1004
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:08,160
in Hinduism.

1005
00:44:08,720 --> 00:44:13,900
And there is a very wealthy person who...

1006
00:44:13,900 --> 00:44:15,340
You don't need to name that person.

1007
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:16,500
No, I won't.

1008
00:44:16,620 --> 00:44:17,840
That's why I didn't name who.

1009
00:44:17,980 --> 00:44:20,440
That's why I said who actually is very

1010
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:24,240
cosy up, cozying up with the current political

1011
00:44:24,240 --> 00:44:24,680
party.

1012
00:44:25,060 --> 00:44:27,640
But it is money dominance.

1013
00:44:27,660 --> 00:44:28,660
Let me leave it at that.

1014
00:44:29,220 --> 00:44:34,120
And this person owns a lot of animals

1015
00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:37,660
and he's got a fascination for animals.

1016
00:44:37,860 --> 00:44:39,520
And there are a lot of good things

1017
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:40,120
he's doing.

1018
00:44:40,300 --> 00:44:40,840
Definitely.

1019
00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:42,700
He's rescued a lot of zoo elephants.

1020
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:45,120
They have rescued some circus elephants.

1021
00:44:45,940 --> 00:44:49,720
But there's also some insidious things that are

1022
00:44:49,720 --> 00:44:50,800
probably going on.

1023
00:44:50,940 --> 00:44:55,060
I don't have any evidence regarding that, but

1024
00:44:55,060 --> 00:44:57,540
there are talks that maybe even wild elephants

1025
00:44:57,540 --> 00:44:58,420
are being captured.

1026
00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:00,620
Again, I'm not going to say that without

1027
00:45:00,620 --> 00:45:04,900
having any evidence, but there's always controversy surrounding

1028
00:45:04,900 --> 00:45:05,240
them.

1029
00:45:05,660 --> 00:45:07,360
And then when it comes to anything to

1030
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:10,560
do with culture and Hinduism, et cetera, it's

1031
00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:13,260
a very sensitive topic in India.

1032
00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:19,840
And the politicians revolve around protectionism, wherein it's

1033
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:22,380
all about protecting our culture and traditions.

1034
00:45:22,740 --> 00:45:25,960
Doesn't matter how much what harm we cause.

1035
00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:28,500
So this is where I'm using the same

1036
00:45:28,500 --> 00:45:33,760
Hinduism to say, hey, Hinduism actually promotes nonviolence.

1037
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:35,300
How about if we take a look at

1038
00:45:35,300 --> 00:45:39,200
that rather than misinterpreting the scriptures, et cetera?

1039
00:45:39,620 --> 00:45:43,460
Shall we just really authentically embrace what it

1040
00:45:43,460 --> 00:45:43,780
means?

1041
00:45:43,940 --> 00:45:46,460
Not because it benefits all of you guys,

1042
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:48,320
but because that is the reality.

1043
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:52,660
That's what the Hinduism preaches, ahimsa.

1044
00:45:53,140 --> 00:45:56,080
There's one other issue that I want to

1045
00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:57,960
get to that's really important.

1046
00:45:58,660 --> 00:46:00,140
And I want to put it in context.

1047
00:46:00,340 --> 00:46:02,780
I'd like to find out how many elephants

1048
00:46:02,780 --> 00:46:05,940
remain in India who are not just in

1049
00:46:05,940 --> 00:46:07,580
temples, but who are roaming free.

1050
00:46:08,100 --> 00:46:12,620
And your effort to create wildlife corridors for

1051
00:46:12,620 --> 00:46:15,720
this, because if the elephants just stay in

1052
00:46:15,720 --> 00:46:18,240
one area, they inbreed, and that creates a

1053
00:46:18,240 --> 00:46:19,140
whole set of problems.

1054
00:46:19,660 --> 00:46:22,640
So you're trying to create wildlife corridors throughout

1055
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:26,340
India where these elephants can travel from one

1056
00:46:26,340 --> 00:46:27,280
area to another.

1057
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:32,480
And again, when you donate to Voices for

1058
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:35,680
Asian Elephant Society, hopefully we can put up

1059
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:39,820
the donate link, there it is, vfaes.org,

1060
00:46:39,860 --> 00:46:41,720
even $10 a month, $5 a month.

1061
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:45,340
Cumulatively, this is going to create the funds

1062
00:46:45,340 --> 00:46:48,120
that allow Sangeeta to buy the land.

1063
00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:49,160
Tell us about it.

1064
00:46:49,620 --> 00:46:49,840
Yeah.

1065
00:46:50,020 --> 00:46:51,620
Thank you for asking that question.

1066
00:46:51,780 --> 00:46:54,540
That's a very important point you're making, right?

1067
00:46:54,940 --> 00:46:59,980
Because if they don't have enough space, inbreeding

1068
00:46:59,980 --> 00:47:02,540
is definitely going to happen, and that is

1069
00:47:02,540 --> 00:47:05,380
going to reduce the genetic pool significantly.

1070
00:47:05,980 --> 00:47:08,340
And therefore, what we are doing is we

1071
00:47:08,340 --> 00:47:09,700
are purchasing...

1072
00:47:09,700 --> 00:47:11,200
First of all, what we did was we

1073
00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:13,680
are rewilding some of the forests that have

1074
00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:15,720
completely been degraded.

1075
00:47:16,240 --> 00:47:19,180
And so just recently, about a few months

1076
00:47:19,180 --> 00:47:22,980
back, we planted some 50,000 elephant-friendly

1077
00:47:22,980 --> 00:47:23,480
saplings.

1078
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:27,200
We created eight large water holes.

1079
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:30,920
And we have amazing images and videos of

1080
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:33,240
elephants visiting the water holes.

1081
00:47:33,460 --> 00:47:35,480
You can see the elephant footprints, and it

1082
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:37,020
just makes my heart smile.

1083
00:47:37,580 --> 00:47:40,520
And so that is how we started.

1084
00:47:40,720 --> 00:47:43,480
Then I asked, why can we not buy

1085
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:45,960
some of these areas and own it?

1086
00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:47,460
Because then it'll be protected.

1087
00:47:47,860 --> 00:47:51,020
And so next year, I'm again excited to

1088
00:47:51,020 --> 00:47:53,580
share with you that we are purchasing a

1089
00:47:53,580 --> 00:47:57,440
12-acre plot of land around the forest

1090
00:47:57,440 --> 00:48:00,380
fringes in Odisha, and we're going to continue

1091
00:48:00,380 --> 00:48:04,020
to expand it around the circumference of the

1092
00:48:04,020 --> 00:48:08,500
forest itself, and then rewild, and then plant

1093
00:48:08,500 --> 00:48:11,240
saplings as we had done in the past

1094
00:48:11,240 --> 00:48:12,540
because of the experience.

1095
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:15,520
And we are also employing tribal women.

1096
00:48:16,060 --> 00:48:17,480
So this is women empowerment.

1097
00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:20,100
This is such a win-win situation because

1098
00:48:20,100 --> 00:48:22,780
we're helping the elephants, we're helping women, we're

1099
00:48:22,780 --> 00:48:24,660
helping men who are digging water holes.

1100
00:48:24,940 --> 00:48:27,860
We are hiring local people to...

1101
00:48:27,860 --> 00:48:30,380
Engineers to go and figure out where we

1102
00:48:30,380 --> 00:48:33,860
can find water, where there are water sources.

1103
00:48:34,120 --> 00:48:37,020
So we are talking and consulting with conservationists

1104
00:48:37,020 --> 00:48:38,440
locally on the ground.

1105
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:40,500
It is such a win-win situation.

1106
00:48:40,820 --> 00:48:45,760
It is heartening because corridors are diminishing at

1107
00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:47,260
an unprecedented rate.

1108
00:48:47,740 --> 00:48:50,340
Human population in India, just to provide you

1109
00:48:50,340 --> 00:48:54,380
some perspective, 18% of the world's human

1110
00:48:54,380 --> 00:48:56,420
population is situated in India.

1111
00:48:56,700 --> 00:48:58,700
18%, just wrap your mind around that.

1112
00:48:59,180 --> 00:49:03,900
That is 1.42 billion people as we

1113
00:49:03,900 --> 00:49:05,600
are talking right now.

1114
00:49:06,020 --> 00:49:08,800
And the competition for space is rampant.

1115
00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:11,980
Elephants have already lost 80% of their

1116
00:49:11,980 --> 00:49:12,440
space.

1117
00:49:12,980 --> 00:49:15,900
And that is because people are encroaching into

1118
00:49:15,900 --> 00:49:16,440
the forest.

1119
00:49:16,740 --> 00:49:19,460
They're extracting all of the natural resources that

1120
00:49:19,460 --> 00:49:20,300
belong to elephants.

1121
00:49:20,420 --> 00:49:21,580
Elephants are left with nothing.

1122
00:49:21,900 --> 00:49:24,680
They come outside into the villages in search

1123
00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:28,000
of food and water, these famished, thirsty elephants.

1124
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:30,860
And then that spurs human-elephant conflict.

1125
00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:34,020
So it's a lose-lose situation with tragedies

1126
00:49:34,020 --> 00:49:35,680
for elephants and humans.

1127
00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:38,460
And so we are now consulting with many,

1128
00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:41,320
many villages living on the forest fringes and

1129
00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:43,500
saying, hey, how about if we worked collectively?

1130
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:47,920
We distributed 5,000 flashlights, simple things like

1131
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:48,320
that.

1132
00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:50,200
5,000 flashlights.

1133
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:53,700
Because when the tea plantation workers return home,

1134
00:49:53,700 --> 00:49:57,100
they don't even, there are no streetlights, you

1135
00:49:57,100 --> 00:49:57,280
know?

1136
00:49:57,420 --> 00:50:00,700
And they actually by mistake run into elephants

1137
00:50:00,700 --> 00:50:01,380
or wildlife.

1138
00:50:01,460 --> 00:50:04,700
But when they have flashlights, even snake bites

1139
00:50:04,700 --> 00:50:08,360
have reduced because the snakes are also alerted.

1140
00:50:08,580 --> 00:50:10,880
And then of course, yeah, it's a win

1141
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:11,720
-win situation.

1142
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:16,180
So when you think of India, you think

1143
00:50:16,180 --> 00:50:16,920
of elephants.

1144
00:50:17,540 --> 00:50:21,800
Doesn't the Indian government realise that elephants are

1145
00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:22,820
a national treasure?

1146
00:50:23,080 --> 00:50:28,800
Why isn't the Indian government itself making these

1147
00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:29,880
wildlife corridors?

1148
00:50:30,300 --> 00:50:32,920
I mean, this is, you're taking it on,

1149
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:34,880
but oh my gosh, this should be something

1150
00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:37,100
that the government of India does.

1151
00:50:38,300 --> 00:50:38,580
Yeah.

1152
00:50:38,720 --> 00:50:41,200
And when you ask them, they will say

1153
00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:42,960
we are doing what we can.

1154
00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:48,480
And yet it's the lackadaisical approach, the apathy,

1155
00:50:48,860 --> 00:50:51,420
the complicity, the negligence.

1156
00:50:51,940 --> 00:50:54,440
I mean, okay, so in just being ruthlessly

1157
00:50:54,440 --> 00:50:57,860
honest with you, some of the forest officers

1158
00:50:57,860 --> 00:50:59,940
who are on the ground, they're not even

1159
00:50:59,940 --> 00:51:00,480
qualified.

1160
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:03,180
They just don't even know what the hell

1161
00:51:03,180 --> 00:51:04,120
they're doing there.

1162
00:51:04,780 --> 00:51:06,320
They're not educated.

1163
00:51:06,580 --> 00:51:08,540
Some of them are totally unwilling to be

1164
00:51:08,540 --> 00:51:09,080
educated.

1165
00:51:09,500 --> 00:51:11,580
Okay, but I gotta jump in here.

1166
00:51:11,740 --> 00:51:13,160
I'm not talking about them.

1167
00:51:13,260 --> 00:51:15,180
I'm talking about buying the land.

1168
00:51:15,380 --> 00:51:16,100
Government, I know.

1169
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:16,840
I know.

1170
00:51:17,180 --> 00:51:19,860
Buying the vast swaths of land because they're

1171
00:51:19,860 --> 00:51:21,120
not going to do that.

1172
00:51:22,060 --> 00:51:25,320
Development is their main focus.

1173
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:28,740
Mining is rampant across Odisha.

1174
00:51:28,940 --> 00:51:30,540
That's why we are buying it.

1175
00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:33,640
Yes, of course, they can easily buy.

1176
00:51:34,020 --> 00:51:37,040
How much for an acre?

1177
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:38,200
How much does it cost?

1178
00:51:38,380 --> 00:51:39,860
Because people like to break it down.

1179
00:51:39,860 --> 00:51:43,700
When you see successful organisations, they say buy

1180
00:51:43,700 --> 00:51:45,980
an acre or buy half an acre or

1181
00:51:45,980 --> 00:51:46,660
buy this.

1182
00:51:46,960 --> 00:51:49,000
In other words, yeah.

1183
00:51:49,680 --> 00:51:52,420
It varies depending on the place, but the

1184
00:51:52,420 --> 00:51:54,720
place where we are buying right now, it

1185
00:51:54,720 --> 00:51:58,260
is approximately $6,000 per acre, which is

1186
00:51:58,260 --> 00:52:00,940
not a lot, $6,000 per acre.

1187
00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:03,240
And it's on the forest fringes.

1188
00:52:03,520 --> 00:52:05,640
And of course, in addition to that, we

1189
00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:08,560
need to raise funds for planting, sapling, for

1190
00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:09,700
creating water holes.

1191
00:52:09,940 --> 00:52:11,980
All those things, they come up over and

1192
00:52:11,980 --> 00:52:15,480
over on top of the land purchase, right?

1193
00:52:15,780 --> 00:52:18,400
So yeah, so that's- We are reaching

1194
00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:20,160
the end of our conversation, but we could

1195
00:52:20,160 --> 00:52:20,820
talk for hours.

1196
00:52:21,100 --> 00:52:25,540
One other thing Sangeeta is doing, which I

1197
00:52:25,540 --> 00:52:30,040
find fascinating is, unfortunately, elephants fall into wells.

1198
00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:33,680
And she is creating these barriers around the

1199
00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:35,800
well so that the elephants don't walk in

1200
00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:36,440
and fall.

1201
00:52:37,100 --> 00:52:40,560
So you are doing so much, and it's

1202
00:52:40,560 --> 00:52:44,620
all so practical, and it's all so cost

1203
00:52:44,620 --> 00:52:45,060
-effective.

1204
00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:48,700
I would urge everybody, I interviewed so many

1205
00:52:48,700 --> 00:52:53,400
organisations, I have honestly never seen an organisation

1206
00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:57,260
that has so many low-cost, practical ways

1207
00:52:57,260 --> 00:52:58,920
to make a big difference.

1208
00:52:59,340 --> 00:53:03,880
And then once they're successful in India, they

1209
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:07,360
can be expanded to Africa, to Latin America,

1210
00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:08,300
to other places.

1211
00:53:08,500 --> 00:53:10,540
Not that there's elephants in Latin America, but

1212
00:53:10,540 --> 00:53:14,260
they can be expanded to other regions, other

1213
00:53:14,260 --> 00:53:15,720
animals, other species.

1214
00:53:16,460 --> 00:53:18,330
This is really important work you're doing.

1215
00:53:18,510 --> 00:53:26,470
So I urge everybody, donate to vfaes.org,

1216
00:53:26,630 --> 00:53:29,330
vfaes.org.

1217
00:53:29,690 --> 00:53:31,710
And let's be part of the solution.

1218
00:53:32,150 --> 00:53:35,130
I want to thank you so much, Sangeeta,

1219
00:53:35,370 --> 00:53:37,590
for being a part of this.

1220
00:53:37,790 --> 00:53:40,210
It's just so wonderful.

1221
00:53:40,790 --> 00:53:42,950
Well, thank you for having me, and thank

1222
00:53:42,950 --> 00:53:45,770
you for taking the time to explain and

1223
00:53:45,770 --> 00:53:47,350
dig into all of the details.

1224
00:53:47,610 --> 00:53:49,270
I mean, there's none like you.

1225
00:53:49,410 --> 00:53:51,290
So thank you so much for the opportunity,

1226
00:53:51,470 --> 00:53:53,910
for being a voice for our beautiful elephants.

1227
00:53:54,070 --> 00:53:55,070
I really appreciate it.

1228
00:53:55,130 --> 00:53:57,270
Lindsay, thank you also for joining and for

1229
00:53:57,270 --> 00:53:58,690
your beautiful, brilliant questions.

1230
00:53:58,990 --> 00:53:59,470
Thank you.

1231
00:54:00,050 --> 00:54:02,690
Yes, Lindsay, you did an incredible job.

1232
00:54:02,810 --> 00:54:06,610
She was our director today and always doing

1233
00:54:06,610 --> 00:54:07,330
a great job.

1234
00:54:07,790 --> 00:54:09,990
All right, everybody, you've seen the solution.

1235
00:54:09,990 --> 00:54:11,470
Let's go do it.

1236
00:54:11,990 --> 00:54:12,910
Thank you so much.

1237
00:54:13,750 --> 00:54:15,030
See you next time.

1238
00:54:15,390 --> 00:54:15,770
Thank you.

1239
00:54:15,870 --> 00:54:16,390
Bye, guys.

1240
00:54:16,570 --> 00:54:16,810
Bye.