UnchainedTV: Let's End Cruel Primate Experimentation Now & Forever!

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We have breaking news for you on so

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many fronts.

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The battle against cruel, wasteful, unnecessary, expensive to

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the taxpayers.

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Primate experimentation is raging on many fronts.

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You are looking at images of just some

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of the primate victims of this completely wasteful,

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unnecessary industry.

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And we are talking with People for the

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Ethical Treatment of Animals, PETA, how to end

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primate experimentation now.

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And the breaking news is that PETA has

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just uncovered some really, really horrific, horrific information

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about what the government has done wrong when

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it comes to a story that we've all

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probably heard about.

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And that story is the monkeys that escaped.

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You may have heard in November of 2024,

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43 monkeys escaped from a South Carolina research

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facility.

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Let's take a look at one of the

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videos that PETA has provided showing really what's

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behind the horror of monkeys in research.

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So, as we've said, and I'll have to

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say, unfortunately, all 43 research monkeys who escaped

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the South Carolina facility have been recaptured.

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Let's go straight out to Amy Meyer of

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People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals.

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You are PETA's primate experimentation associate director.

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What is the breaking news regarding these 43

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monkeys?

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Well, so the breaking news is that PETA,

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through a records request, has received the USDA

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inspection report about this incident.

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And they did get cited with a violation

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for this, but it was only a non

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-critical violation.

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And it's wild to us that 43 monkeys

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can escape your property, some of them being

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gone for months.

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And when they did this inspection, there were

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still four who were unaccounted for, and they

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still said not critical violation.

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So that's why we fired off a letter

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to the USDA saying, how can this not

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be a critical violation of these monkeys being

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on the loose, getting into who knows what?

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And probably, I mean, the temperatures during this

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time got so low, it's inconceivable that this

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is not a critical violation of the federal

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animal welfare laws that are meant to try

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to give these animals some basic protection.

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It's absolutely crazy.

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And it's just part of the entire, what

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I would say, a lack of monitoring by

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the US government when it comes to all

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of these horrific animal experiments.

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Now, you've pointed out this lab in Columbia

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was funded by the National Institutes of Health.

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The monkeys were left in their waste.

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They died from their diseases and neglect.

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The NIH, the National Institutes of Health, never

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inspected this facility, and it is a hellhole.

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And this is just one of the many

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foreign research labs that our government, our taxpayers,

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my tax dollars are forced to subsidise.

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And why?

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I mean, this is absolutely insane.

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I'd like to go to Dr. Lisa Jones

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Engel.

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You are also with People for the Ethical

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Treatment of Animals.

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You're their primate experimentation science advisor.

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Tell us, you know, why is it that

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there isn't more concern about the waste of

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money, the absolute waste of our tax dollars

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when it comes to these ridiculous experiments?

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Well, I think there is growing concern because

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there's been growing transparency.

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You know, these 43 monkeys getting out of

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the Alpha Genesis facility, you know, the world

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had never really seen an escape like that

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before.

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They'd never seen monkeys who were supposed to

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have been kept in a cage kind of

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doing what the monkey thing that they're supposed

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to be doing.

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And I think that has really, that's caught

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people's attention.

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And the question of why, why is there

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outrage?

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Well, the failed science, the injuries to the

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animals, the endangered species that these animals, basically

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some of these species are being driven to

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extinction.

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People have heard about it now.

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And once people hear, once people see, they

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cannot look away.

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And I think that is, that has been

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devastating to this industry who has banked on

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the idea, literally banked on the idea that

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no one gets to look at But we're

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looking very closely.

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That generated so many headlines, that monkey escape

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story, precisely because they found three one day

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for the other day.

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Every time they found a few more, they

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would do more news about it.

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And it's sad because PETA works so hard,

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so hard to get news about the heartbreaking

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stupidity of these experiments that do not help

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animals.

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And yet it's hard to get the media

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to cover that.

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But then when some of these monkeys escape

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and you're looking at happy monkeys in the

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wild, they actually have an island, which I

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just learned recently, they have an island near

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the United States or part of the United

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States.

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Dr. Lisa, if you could explain where they

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take these happy monkeys who are living in

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families and they abduct them and they stick

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them in cages.

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Well, this is, I mean, one of the

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really horrific parts of this.

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This whole thing is bad.

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But these 43 who escaped, they were a

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part of a group of 50 of them

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that were taken from Morgan Island, which is

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about 40, 50 miles from the Smithsonian Embassy.

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That island has had four generations of racist

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macaques whose grandparents and great grandparents were actually

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stolen from India and brought over.

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But those animals have lived on that island.

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They know everyone.

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Every single monkey on that island is either

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related or it's a brother, it's a sister,

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it's an aunt or an uncle.

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And so when those cage doors were left

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open and 43 of them ran out, you

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know why they stayed around and they just

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didn't immediately take off?

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It's because macaques are like marines.

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No monkey is left behind.

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So those seven who were still in there,

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every one of those animals would have known

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them.

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It would have been someone to them that

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they, it could have been their mother, it

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could have been their sister.

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They stayed as long as they could to

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try to get them out, to be with

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them.

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And that is, that's horrifying to anyone who

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thinks about what these animals, they had, they

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were free, but they were not going to

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leave their friends behind.

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Well, McKenna Grace Fitcher says, this has to

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be stopped.

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How people cannot understand the sickening practise of

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torture and killing primates renders me sick.

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And that's how we all feel.

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And now there is an opportunity and I

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want to be careful.

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Of course, this is breaking news.

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A lot is happening in Washington right now.

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And the first thing I want to say

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is that animal experimentation has long been a

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bipartisan problem.

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Okay.

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We're not talking politics right now.

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I can tell you the monkeys being tortured

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in these laboratories do not care whether the

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people who get them out are Democrats, Republicans,

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conservatives, liberals, libertarians, socialists, Green Party members, or

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what have you.

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They just want to get the electroids out

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of their brains.

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They want to get out of the cages.

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Now, because there is a massive move to

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cut federal budgets in Washington, D.C., we

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have what I would call a unique opportunity

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to get this message out and say, if

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you're going to cut, the first place that

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you should cut is these ridiculous experiments.

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So you may have seen the headlines in

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recent days.

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National Institute of Health cuts billions of dollars

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in biomedical funding effectively immediately.

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National Institutes of Health has announced it's slashing

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funding for indirect research costs.

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The agency estimated that it could save $4

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billion by capping indirect costs at 15%.

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Well, that I greeted as great news.

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The rest of the mainstream media did not

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greet it that way.

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Time magazine, I think, had the most alarmist

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headline of all, saying the NIH budget cuts

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are the apocalypse of American science, experts say.

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And sure enough, a federal judge has just

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blocked the cuts to medical funding.

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Again, I want to say very clearly, we're

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not talking partisan politics.

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This has been a bipartisan catastrophe for decades.

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These monkeys have been subjected to the same

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research over and over again, you know, cut

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up, you know, blinded, addicted to cocaine, terrified

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under Republican administrations, Democrat administrations.

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It's been happening for decades.

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If there is a unique opportunity to end

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this, I say let's go for it.

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Let's do a little roundtable.

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Amy, where are you on this?

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Well, I absolutely agree.

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And there's, you know, we are wasting billions

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and billions of dollars through the National Institutes

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of Health every year, doing these horrific experiments

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on monkeys, where they are addicted to drugs,

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they are, have electrodes implanted in their brains,

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all kinds of hideous experiments.

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And of course, they're all confined to these

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tiny metal cages.

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They never feel the warmth of the sun,

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they never get freedom, they never get to

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live with their families.

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And it's all with our taxpayer dollars.

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And what's interesting about this move now to

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target these indirect research costs, when you look

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at who some of the worst offenders are

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of having outrageously high indirect research costs, it's

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the National Primate Research Centres, the Washington National

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Primate Research Centre has 80% of its

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funding that gets from the NIH for these

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experiments on monkeys are in this indirect cost

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bucket, which means it's not the expenses for

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the needs of the research itself, it kind

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of covers the administration costs.

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And it's, it's so high, because it costs

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a lot of money just to keep the

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lights on in a facility where you are

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housing these sensitive animals.

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And so PETA saying we need to be

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focussing on the worst offenders that are wasting

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the most amount of money, and are constantly

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breaking federal animal welfare laws, they're led by

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people who have been found to have research

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misconduct.

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These places are terrible for animals, they're not

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well run.

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And they're the most giant waste of money.

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So that's where we really want to focus

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the most of getting just this fraud taken

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care of.

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So where, where are we?

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Again, getting back to what McKenna Grace Fitcher

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said, this has to be stopped.

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How people cannot understand the sickening practise of

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torture and killing done to these primates renders

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me sick.

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But I have to say, Amy, that every

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time you try to cut these budgets, people

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scream, Oh, my God, America is going to

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lose its place in science.

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Oh, my God, people are going to die,

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never really talking about the fact that at

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least 95% of the experiments on animals

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are completely useless when it comes to human

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beings.

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Because guess what, we don't have tails, we

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00:13:04,770 --> 00:13:05,870
don't have paws.

272
00:13:06,390 --> 00:13:07,890
We don't have claws.

273
00:13:08,830 --> 00:13:11,850
Dogs will die if they eat too much

274
00:13:11,850 --> 00:13:13,250
chocolate or grapes.

275
00:13:13,410 --> 00:13:14,970
That doesn't apply to people.

276
00:13:15,410 --> 00:13:17,710
So Dr. Lisa Jones Engel, what can we

277
00:13:17,710 --> 00:13:20,430
do in this unique opportunity where there is

278
00:13:20,430 --> 00:13:22,770
budget cutting going on in Washington, D.C.

279
00:13:22,850 --> 00:13:25,650
to make sure that these wasteful experiments are

280
00:13:25,650 --> 00:13:27,110
priority number one?

281
00:13:28,290 --> 00:13:28,950
You know what?

282
00:13:29,030 --> 00:13:31,090
I think that what we're seeing now is

283
00:13:31,090 --> 00:13:34,750
maybe an extinction level event for primate users,

284
00:13:35,770 --> 00:13:37,810
particularly in the National Primate Research Centres.

285
00:13:38,010 --> 00:13:41,130
But anyone who is experimenting on primates, it's

286
00:13:41,130 --> 00:13:45,050
the amount of money that's being spent and

287
00:13:45,050 --> 00:13:47,590
the amount, the consistent level of failures, everyone

288
00:13:47,590 --> 00:13:48,650
sees that now.

289
00:13:49,150 --> 00:13:51,370
And I think this is going through and

290
00:13:51,370 --> 00:13:53,490
shutting down the National Primate Research Centres, these

291
00:13:53,490 --> 00:13:54,410
facilities.

292
00:13:54,730 --> 00:13:56,510
So keep in mind, when a monkey is

293
00:13:56,510 --> 00:13:58,670
in a cage, there's only one thing that

294
00:13:58,670 --> 00:14:00,950
they're thinking about, and that's how do I

295
00:14:00,950 --> 00:14:01,450
get out?

296
00:14:02,410 --> 00:14:05,010
And so these indirect costs are part of

297
00:14:05,010 --> 00:14:07,170
these are kind of measures to try to

298
00:14:07,170 --> 00:14:09,270
keep the animals in, to make sure that

299
00:14:09,270 --> 00:14:10,830
all the doors are secure, that the cages

300
00:14:10,830 --> 00:14:13,270
are strong, that the staff is there, that

301
00:14:13,270 --> 00:14:14,530
everything is in place.

302
00:14:14,670 --> 00:14:18,070
But the monkeys are consistently figuring it out.

303
00:14:18,830 --> 00:14:21,810
Alpha genesis monkeys leave, UW Primate Centre monkeys

304
00:14:21,810 --> 00:14:22,090
leave.

305
00:14:22,230 --> 00:14:25,150
Every single primate centre sees these animals escaping.

306
00:14:25,830 --> 00:14:29,010
And I think with that transparency and with

307
00:14:29,010 --> 00:14:32,290
the clear evidence that the science is failing,

308
00:14:32,410 --> 00:14:33,630
do we have an HIV vaccine?

309
00:14:33,810 --> 00:14:33,970
No.

310
00:14:34,070 --> 00:14:35,130
Do we have a malaria vaccine?

311
00:14:35,250 --> 00:14:36,170
Do we have a TB vaccine?

312
00:14:36,330 --> 00:14:36,530
No.

313
00:14:37,130 --> 00:14:40,250
But for decades, every one of those vaccines

314
00:14:40,250 --> 00:14:44,150
have been developed and supposedly tested safe in

315
00:14:44,150 --> 00:14:45,330
monkeys in these facilities.

316
00:14:45,570 --> 00:14:47,850
And every single time that fails.

317
00:14:48,390 --> 00:14:50,850
And I think what has happened is that

318
00:14:52,130 --> 00:14:55,690
on both sides of the aisle, the politicians

319
00:14:55,690 --> 00:14:58,930
are saying enough, enough of wasting taxpayer dollars.

320
00:14:59,070 --> 00:15:01,290
If we want good science, there's better ways

321
00:15:01,290 --> 00:15:03,530
to get science, to get good results than

322
00:15:03,530 --> 00:15:05,070
to put a monkey in a cage and

323
00:15:05,070 --> 00:15:07,470
expect that animal that we have not shared

324
00:15:07,470 --> 00:15:10,550
a common ancestor with for 24 million years

325
00:15:10,550 --> 00:15:14,830
to give us any information, any reliable, translatable

326
00:15:14,830 --> 00:15:16,290
information about ourselves.

327
00:15:16,570 --> 00:15:19,750
So I'm, I, I think this is it.

328
00:15:19,830 --> 00:15:24,430
This is the animal experimenters in institutions were

329
00:15:24,430 --> 00:15:26,970
always considered the rainmakers because they brought in

330
00:15:26,970 --> 00:15:30,930
multi-million dollar grants with these massive indirect

331
00:15:30,930 --> 00:15:33,550
costs attached to them that the institutions were

332
00:15:33,550 --> 00:15:34,190
like, yummy.

333
00:15:34,350 --> 00:15:35,650
I'll just, I'll eat, eat all of this

334
00:15:35,650 --> 00:15:35,870
up.

335
00:15:36,070 --> 00:15:38,850
But that, that tap is going to be

336
00:15:38,850 --> 00:15:39,430
turned off.

337
00:15:39,470 --> 00:15:42,270
And then the institutions, the, the harm benefit

338
00:15:42,270 --> 00:15:44,010
analysis, they're going to be forced to do,

339
00:15:44,070 --> 00:15:45,670
you know, the benefit of getting a lot

340
00:15:45,670 --> 00:15:49,210
of money from monkey studies versus the harm,

341
00:15:49,330 --> 00:15:52,910
which is, you know, the outrage, the, the

342
00:15:52,910 --> 00:15:56,250
uncertainness of the reliability of the research of

343
00:15:56,250 --> 00:15:59,010
the, of people suing them for, for their

344
00:15:59,010 --> 00:15:59,710
bad actions.

345
00:16:00,030 --> 00:16:03,750
That's those harms really quickly outweighing the benefits.

346
00:16:04,470 --> 00:16:05,010
So, okay.

347
00:16:05,090 --> 00:16:07,970
What can we do with the backlash against

348
00:16:07,970 --> 00:16:09,250
the proposed cuts?

349
00:16:09,250 --> 00:16:12,470
Again, if you're just joining us, there's so

350
00:16:12,470 --> 00:16:14,730
much breaking news on this front right now,

351
00:16:14,770 --> 00:16:19,070
but the bottom line is that due to,

352
00:16:19,590 --> 00:16:21,690
again, this is a bipartisan issue.

353
00:16:21,830 --> 00:16:24,150
I'm not talking politics, partisan politics.

354
00:16:24,150 --> 00:16:26,010
I'm talking, get the monkeys out of the

355
00:16:26,010 --> 00:16:28,430
cages, get all these animals out of the

356
00:16:28,430 --> 00:16:28,730
cages.

357
00:16:29,310 --> 00:16:32,970
So due to a new administration wanting to

358
00:16:32,970 --> 00:16:38,910
slash federal funding, the National Institutes of Health

359
00:16:38,910 --> 00:16:42,990
cuts billions of dollars in biomedical funding effective

360
00:16:42,990 --> 00:16:43,490
immediately.

361
00:16:43,690 --> 00:16:44,570
That's a headline.

362
00:16:45,050 --> 00:16:45,310
Okay.

363
00:16:45,510 --> 00:16:51,570
But what happened was just very recently there

364
00:16:51,570 --> 00:16:52,650
was a huge backlash.

365
00:16:53,550 --> 00:16:56,090
And for example, Time Magazine saying it's the

366
00:16:56,090 --> 00:16:59,250
apocalypse of American science and a federal judge

367
00:16:59,250 --> 00:17:02,850
has at least temporarily blocked the current administration

368
00:17:02,850 --> 00:17:06,849
from making these cuts to these research programmes.

369
00:17:07,650 --> 00:17:10,089
And so where does that leave us now,

370
00:17:10,290 --> 00:17:10,390
Amy?

371
00:17:10,550 --> 00:17:13,490
I mean, how can we get to the

372
00:17:13,490 --> 00:17:16,510
powers that be and make the point that,

373
00:17:16,990 --> 00:17:20,390
hey, and it doesn't matter whether you think

374
00:17:20,390 --> 00:17:22,190
a broken clock is right twice a day

375
00:17:22,190 --> 00:17:24,730
or the law of unintended consequences, however you

376
00:17:24,730 --> 00:17:28,030
want to analyse this in your mind, this

377
00:17:28,030 --> 00:17:31,050
particular cut is good.

378
00:17:32,610 --> 00:17:37,110
We're wasting billions of dollars, torturing millions of

379
00:17:37,110 --> 00:17:39,510
animals and nothing to see from it.

380
00:17:39,670 --> 00:17:42,830
I'll just say 30 years ago, 30 years

381
00:17:42,830 --> 00:17:44,690
ago, I was asked by a very big

382
00:17:44,690 --> 00:17:48,590
organisation to lead a walk, okay, for a

383
00:17:48,590 --> 00:17:50,130
cure of some sort.

384
00:17:50,510 --> 00:17:53,130
I'm not going to identify the organisation, so

385
00:17:53,130 --> 00:17:54,410
don't take any hints from that.

386
00:17:54,830 --> 00:17:57,030
And we went to lunch and I started

387
00:17:57,030 --> 00:17:57,790
asking questions.

388
00:17:57,890 --> 00:17:58,810
I said, well, what are you doing with

389
00:17:58,810 --> 00:17:59,170
the money?

390
00:17:59,430 --> 00:18:00,790
I said, do you do animal experimentation?

391
00:18:01,230 --> 00:18:03,090
Before I left the restaurant, I got a

392
00:18:03,090 --> 00:18:03,490
message.

393
00:18:03,950 --> 00:18:04,670
You're off the hook.

394
00:18:04,810 --> 00:18:06,930
You don't have to lead that march anymore.

395
00:18:08,370 --> 00:18:10,430
We don't want you.

396
00:18:11,010 --> 00:18:13,170
See, when you start asking questions, they don't

397
00:18:13,170 --> 00:18:13,490
want you.

398
00:18:13,590 --> 00:18:14,870
That was 30 years ago.

399
00:18:15,730 --> 00:18:18,810
So I tell people, ask questions, but what

400
00:18:18,810 --> 00:18:22,650
can we do at this particularly crucial juncture,

401
00:18:23,270 --> 00:18:25,870
Amy, to make sure that the folks who

402
00:18:25,870 --> 00:18:29,070
are, let's face it, they're laughing all the

403
00:18:29,070 --> 00:18:30,890
way to the bank with this money coming

404
00:18:30,890 --> 00:18:31,950
into the universities.

405
00:18:34,430 --> 00:18:36,390
How can we counteract that narrative?

406
00:18:37,670 --> 00:18:39,250
I mean, I think that it is important

407
00:18:39,250 --> 00:18:40,830
to keep sharing information.

408
00:18:41,130 --> 00:18:42,210
Go to PETA.org.

409
00:18:42,370 --> 00:18:44,450
You can learn about what is happening at

410
00:18:44,450 --> 00:18:47,110
the National Primate Research Centres like the one

411
00:18:47,110 --> 00:18:48,530
at the University of Washington.

412
00:18:49,190 --> 00:18:51,650
And you can take simple action steps, right,

413
00:18:51,710 --> 00:18:55,090
on those pages on PETA.org to encourage

414
00:18:55,090 --> 00:18:58,110
the National Institutes of Health to stop funding

415
00:18:58,110 --> 00:18:59,830
these primate research centres.

416
00:19:00,090 --> 00:19:03,250
The judge has at least stalled right now

417
00:19:03,250 --> 00:19:05,850
this across-the-board cut that would impact

418
00:19:05,850 --> 00:19:08,830
other research too, not only experiments done on

419
00:19:08,830 --> 00:19:11,590
animals, but where we could at least find

420
00:19:11,590 --> 00:19:14,270
like the most easy cut, I think, is

421
00:19:14,270 --> 00:19:16,990
to stop funding these primate research centres that

422
00:19:16,990 --> 00:19:19,970
are not only wasting millions and millions of

423
00:19:19,970 --> 00:19:21,030
dollars every year.

424
00:19:21,290 --> 00:19:23,650
They are torturing thousands of monkeys.

425
00:19:24,030 --> 00:19:26,350
They have been found to violate Federal Animal

426
00:19:26,350 --> 00:19:31,570
Welfare Act dozens of times, including some really,

427
00:19:31,950 --> 00:19:35,010
really gross ones and just really heinous ones,

428
00:19:35,010 --> 00:19:37,830
like leaving a monkey in a cage when

429
00:19:37,830 --> 00:19:39,890
they put it through this high-pressure, high

430
00:19:39,890 --> 00:19:42,270
-heat cage washer killing them.

431
00:19:42,430 --> 00:19:44,310
They are just a mess.

432
00:19:44,510 --> 00:19:46,650
And so go to PETA.org to take

433
00:19:46,650 --> 00:19:51,170
action or go beyond that and send an

434
00:19:51,170 --> 00:19:53,430
email to your member of Congress saying, I

435
00:19:53,430 --> 00:19:55,890
support cutting funding for these places.

436
00:19:56,410 --> 00:19:59,630
Let's have the National Institutes of Health cut

437
00:19:59,630 --> 00:20:03,870
funding to these experiments on monkeys.

438
00:20:03,870 --> 00:20:06,930
So many of them are now endangered monkeys.

439
00:20:07,090 --> 00:20:10,410
We are literally decimating the forests and their

440
00:20:10,410 --> 00:20:13,590
natural homes of these animals to be experimenting

441
00:20:13,590 --> 00:20:14,490
on them here.

442
00:20:14,970 --> 00:20:16,710
Let's put an end to all of this

443
00:20:16,710 --> 00:20:20,630
and save taxpayer money in the process.

444
00:20:21,390 --> 00:20:23,470
I mean, when you look at these animals

445
00:20:23,470 --> 00:20:27,430
in the wild, their innocence, their beauty, obviously

446
00:20:27,430 --> 00:20:30,330
they love their fellow monkeys.

447
00:20:30,330 --> 00:20:32,070
They live in family groups.

448
00:20:32,630 --> 00:20:35,730
What we're doing is, I don't even have

449
00:20:35,730 --> 00:20:40,370
words for it, mediaeval, barbaric, psychotic.

450
00:20:41,190 --> 00:20:43,050
Yes, that's what it is.

451
00:20:43,450 --> 00:20:48,330
And again, these experiments are not accomplishing anything.

452
00:20:48,810 --> 00:20:50,470
We are in the 21st century.

453
00:20:50,630 --> 00:20:52,170
There are organs on a chip.

454
00:20:52,550 --> 00:20:55,230
We look at things from the molecular and

455
00:20:55,230 --> 00:20:56,870
the submolecular level.

456
00:20:57,350 --> 00:21:01,750
You don't need to be injecting cocaine into

457
00:21:01,750 --> 00:21:02,530
these monkeys.

458
00:21:03,170 --> 00:21:05,850
Just the number of experiments.

459
00:21:06,850 --> 00:21:08,690
Amy, can you give us a list of

460
00:21:08,690 --> 00:21:11,810
some of the most ridiculous, and they're all

461
00:21:11,810 --> 00:21:13,970
ridiculous in my book, but I know there

462
00:21:13,970 --> 00:21:16,770
was this one experiment where they would make

463
00:21:16,770 --> 00:21:19,010
the monkeys pregnant and then take the babies

464
00:21:19,010 --> 00:21:21,870
away and then scare the mama monkey with

465
00:21:21,870 --> 00:21:25,230
all sorts of rattlesnakes and then drug the

466
00:21:25,230 --> 00:21:28,270
mama monkey so the baby couldn't wake mama

467
00:21:28,270 --> 00:21:28,610
up.

468
00:21:28,850 --> 00:21:31,070
I mean, it's something out of a horror

469
00:21:31,070 --> 00:21:31,430
movie.

470
00:21:31,690 --> 00:21:35,550
It's out of like The Exorcist or one

471
00:21:35,550 --> 00:21:37,430
of these slasher movies.

472
00:21:37,550 --> 00:21:39,390
That's really what's going on.

473
00:21:39,850 --> 00:21:42,790
I think these experimenters need to have psychological

474
00:21:42,790 --> 00:21:44,370
evaluations, in my opinion.

475
00:21:45,670 --> 00:21:45,850
Yeah.

476
00:21:45,970 --> 00:21:48,230
I mean, that one is particularly awful.

477
00:21:48,990 --> 00:21:52,750
There's no such thing as an illegal experiment

478
00:21:52,750 --> 00:21:54,410
on animals in this country.

479
00:21:54,590 --> 00:21:57,090
Whatever they can dream up, if they can

480
00:21:57,090 --> 00:21:59,690
get their committee friends to agree with it,

481
00:21:59,750 --> 00:22:00,510
it happens.

482
00:22:00,990 --> 00:22:04,030
You see all kinds of silly research going

483
00:22:04,030 --> 00:22:04,310
on.

484
00:22:04,450 --> 00:22:06,370
It's just clearly, why do we need to

485
00:22:06,370 --> 00:22:07,670
be doing this when we don't?

486
00:22:07,990 --> 00:22:10,730
There's so much just curiosity-driven experiments.

487
00:22:11,470 --> 00:22:13,670
I know I live in Oregon, and the

488
00:22:13,670 --> 00:22:16,770
Oregon National Primate Research Centre, I remember reading

489
00:22:16,770 --> 00:22:21,170
a story about experimenters who were giving THC

490
00:22:21,170 --> 00:22:26,550
to monkeys and then attaching these electrodes to

491
00:22:26,550 --> 00:22:29,150
their penises to see what the sperm count

492
00:22:29,150 --> 00:22:31,550
level does with different amounts of THC in

493
00:22:31,550 --> 00:22:32,110
their system.

494
00:22:32,250 --> 00:22:35,450
It's just completely irrelevant to anything, to any

495
00:22:35,450 --> 00:22:37,790
type of cure that people are hoping for.

496
00:22:38,090 --> 00:22:41,070
And we have experimenters who are taking babies

497
00:22:41,070 --> 00:22:43,370
away from their mothers and then making it

498
00:22:43,370 --> 00:22:45,490
so that they never see a face, even

499
00:22:45,490 --> 00:22:48,290
a human face for the first year of

500
00:22:48,290 --> 00:22:51,730
their life to see how much that messes

501
00:22:51,730 --> 00:22:53,530
them up and their eyesight up.

502
00:22:53,670 --> 00:22:57,810
These are terrible, awful experiments.

503
00:22:59,210 --> 00:23:03,050
What's really particularly tragic with primate experiments to

504
00:23:03,050 --> 00:23:05,570
me is that some of these monkeys are

505
00:23:05,570 --> 00:23:08,290
living in these conditions for decades.

506
00:23:08,830 --> 00:23:11,150
Some of these monkeys, we read a story

507
00:23:11,150 --> 00:23:15,390
recently of a University of Washington, who this

508
00:23:15,390 --> 00:23:18,450
monkey's life started in Madison in a laboratory.

509
00:23:19,110 --> 00:23:21,630
Then they went with this experimenter, Michelle Basso,

510
00:23:21,730 --> 00:23:24,690
to UCLA, and then she went to Seattle.

511
00:23:24,930 --> 00:23:26,990
And so this monkey was born in 1994

512
00:23:26,990 --> 00:23:29,570
and was just killed a couple years ago.

513
00:23:29,730 --> 00:23:32,290
These monkeys can live so many years, and

514
00:23:32,290 --> 00:23:35,670
it's just every single day is horror beyond

515
00:23:35,670 --> 00:23:38,430
the experiments, beyond the terrible things happening in

516
00:23:38,430 --> 00:23:39,330
the experiment itself.

517
00:23:39,870 --> 00:23:42,810
It's unconscionable to think of these highly social

518
00:23:42,810 --> 00:23:46,370
animals living alone in a stainless steel cage

519
00:23:46,370 --> 00:23:48,150
where the lights come on at the same

520
00:23:48,150 --> 00:23:49,930
time each day, they go off each time

521
00:23:49,930 --> 00:23:53,090
each day, and they have no control over

522
00:23:53,090 --> 00:23:54,270
their life at all.

523
00:23:54,390 --> 00:23:57,430
The only thing they can control is tearing

524
00:23:57,430 --> 00:24:00,510
out their own hair or eating their own

525
00:24:00,510 --> 00:24:03,970
fingers because they're driven so mad by these

526
00:24:03,970 --> 00:24:04,610
conditions.

527
00:24:05,030 --> 00:24:07,130
It just needs to end.

528
00:24:07,290 --> 00:24:08,050
It can end.

529
00:24:08,470 --> 00:24:09,150
It should end.

530
00:24:09,410 --> 00:24:12,250
Maybe we actually will be seeing this now

531
00:24:12,250 --> 00:24:16,050
that there is real talk of the funding

532
00:24:16,050 --> 00:24:16,710
being stopped.

533
00:24:16,870 --> 00:24:18,210
That's why this is all happening.

534
00:24:18,410 --> 00:24:19,510
It's all about the money.

535
00:24:20,050 --> 00:24:23,170
If we target the money, I have hope

536
00:24:23,170 --> 00:24:24,930
that this is how we can start making

537
00:24:24,930 --> 00:24:27,890
a really serious impact on not having so

538
00:24:27,890 --> 00:24:30,530
many monkeys being tortured and killed in these

539
00:24:30,530 --> 00:24:31,010
places.

540
00:24:31,690 --> 00:24:32,410
Well, I agree.

541
00:24:32,470 --> 00:24:34,290
I don't care why you're trying to stop

542
00:24:34,290 --> 00:24:34,510
it.

543
00:24:34,630 --> 00:24:37,310
If you have an irrational reason for stopping,

544
00:24:37,470 --> 00:24:38,190
I don't care.

545
00:24:38,830 --> 00:24:39,770
Stop it.

546
00:24:39,970 --> 00:24:41,310
Let's stop it.

547
00:24:41,790 --> 00:24:44,370
I want to go to another breaking news

548
00:24:44,370 --> 00:24:44,670
story.

549
00:24:44,750 --> 00:24:46,650
There's so many breaking news stories on the

550
00:24:46,650 --> 00:24:48,310
primate experimentation front.

551
00:24:48,830 --> 00:24:51,130
PETA has led the way trying to stop

552
00:24:51,130 --> 00:24:56,590
an outrageous plan to put 30,000 monkeys

553
00:24:56,590 --> 00:25:00,630
in a small town in Georgia, and the

554
00:25:00,630 --> 00:25:02,730
people there are up in arms.

555
00:25:02,890 --> 00:25:04,770
Let's watch a local news report that was

556
00:25:04,770 --> 00:25:06,210
very well done on the issue that we're

557
00:25:06,210 --> 00:25:07,490
going to discuss on the other side.

558
00:25:08,510 --> 00:25:12,010
A year later, Bainbridge neighbours are still voicing

559
00:25:12,010 --> 00:25:15,290
their concerns about a monkey facility project by

560
00:25:15,290 --> 00:25:16,930
pulling out all the stops.

561
00:25:17,310 --> 00:25:19,870
These are the cages that the monkeys will

562
00:25:19,870 --> 00:25:22,570
be transported in if we don't put a

563
00:25:22,570 --> 00:25:23,150
stop to this.

564
00:25:23,370 --> 00:25:26,670
Even county leaders who originally voted for the

565
00:25:26,670 --> 00:25:29,950
project but later rescinded their vote spoke out

566
00:25:29,950 --> 00:25:32,610
at a monkey expo Thursday night.

567
00:25:33,090 --> 00:25:35,390
And I said early on we made a

568
00:25:35,390 --> 00:25:35,730
mistake.

569
00:25:36,050 --> 00:25:38,110
As the fate of the primate facility hangs

570
00:25:38,110 --> 00:25:41,010
in the balance of the courts, Bainbridge residents

571
00:25:41,010 --> 00:25:43,870
say they're hopeful they can shut down the

572
00:25:43,870 --> 00:25:44,390
project.

573
00:25:44,730 --> 00:25:46,750
We're standing that it's not going to come

574
00:25:46,750 --> 00:25:47,050
here.

575
00:25:47,390 --> 00:25:49,250
We don't want it here.

576
00:25:49,590 --> 00:25:52,590
Lena Allen, WALV, your hometown news source.

577
00:25:53,410 --> 00:25:55,450
Thank you for that report.

578
00:25:55,590 --> 00:25:56,370
We appreciate it.

579
00:25:56,530 --> 00:25:59,090
So, Amy, what's the latest on that breaking

580
00:25:59,090 --> 00:25:59,590
story?

581
00:26:00,490 --> 00:26:02,850
Yeah, well, I mean, that latest, that was

582
00:26:02,850 --> 00:26:03,530
a town hall.

583
00:26:03,710 --> 00:26:06,090
It was about a year after this fight

584
00:26:06,090 --> 00:26:08,090
started, and as you can see in the

585
00:26:08,090 --> 00:26:10,150
video, it's still packed.

586
00:26:10,350 --> 00:26:12,750
These local residents are not giving up in

587
00:26:12,750 --> 00:26:13,090
Bainbridge.

588
00:26:13,370 --> 00:26:14,710
They are fighters.

589
00:26:14,970 --> 00:26:18,650
They are set on keeping this terrible project

590
00:26:18,650 --> 00:26:22,170
that would be imprisoning 30,000 monkeys when

591
00:26:22,170 --> 00:26:24,450
it's at full capacity in their town, which

592
00:26:24,450 --> 00:26:26,970
only has like 9,000 humans in it.

593
00:26:27,470 --> 00:26:30,730
So they're fighting so hard, and there are

594
00:26:30,730 --> 00:26:34,470
now four ongoing lawsuits related to this case

595
00:26:34,470 --> 00:26:35,470
to try to stop it.

596
00:26:35,570 --> 00:26:38,210
So there's lawsuits trying to get at the

597
00:26:38,210 --> 00:26:41,390
lack of transparency that was involved from city

598
00:26:41,390 --> 00:26:44,310
leaders in bringing this project to their community,

599
00:26:44,530 --> 00:26:48,070
and then there's also a lawsuit, a nuisance

600
00:26:48,070 --> 00:26:50,650
case talking about all the ways that this

601
00:26:50,650 --> 00:26:53,130
would create a nuisance for the people, especially

602
00:26:53,130 --> 00:26:55,730
right around where the proposed facility is taking

603
00:26:55,730 --> 00:26:56,190
place.

604
00:26:56,670 --> 00:26:59,890
And now we even see the state of

605
00:26:59,890 --> 00:27:02,830
Georgia stepping up and trying to undo some

606
00:27:02,830 --> 00:27:05,230
of this mess, too, and trying to appeal

607
00:27:05,230 --> 00:27:07,650
it to the Georgia Supreme Court to undo

608
00:27:08,170 --> 00:27:10,830
this terrible bond deal, which was like the

609
00:27:10,830 --> 00:27:13,750
sweetheart package of money to give this brand

610
00:27:13,750 --> 00:27:16,510
new company to bring this dreadful project to

611
00:27:16,510 --> 00:27:16,870
Bainbridge.

612
00:27:17,190 --> 00:27:20,430
So I have to play the response given

613
00:27:20,430 --> 00:27:23,510
to that particular local news outlet from the

614
00:27:23,510 --> 00:27:25,490
folks who want to create this.

615
00:27:25,690 --> 00:27:28,430
Safer Human Medicine is excited to collaborate with

616
00:27:28,430 --> 00:27:30,370
the Development Authority to advance this project.

617
00:27:30,490 --> 00:27:32,390
Support for this project is growing, with many

618
00:27:32,390 --> 00:27:35,790
residents from Decatur County already expressing strong interest

619
00:27:35,790 --> 00:27:36,890
in job opportunities.

620
00:27:37,110 --> 00:27:38,710
What is your response to that?

621
00:27:39,010 --> 00:27:40,190
We'll start with Amy, then we'll go to

622
00:27:40,190 --> 00:27:40,390
Lisa.

623
00:27:41,610 --> 00:27:43,650
Well, I mean, even the locals who I

624
00:27:43,650 --> 00:27:45,490
met with there and who I continue to

625
00:27:45,490 --> 00:27:47,330
meet with it, it's hard to find anyone

626
00:27:47,330 --> 00:27:49,350
in Bainbridge who actually wants us there.

627
00:27:49,490 --> 00:27:52,410
I very much have doubts about their statement

628
00:27:52,410 --> 00:27:56,770
itself, and people just realise that this is

629
00:27:56,770 --> 00:27:59,510
not only a matter of cruelty to the

630
00:27:59,510 --> 00:27:59,970
animals.

631
00:28:00,370 --> 00:28:02,830
For the people there, it threatens their water

632
00:28:02,830 --> 00:28:05,430
system because of how many monkeys would be

633
00:28:05,430 --> 00:28:07,450
in this monkey factory farm.

634
00:28:07,610 --> 00:28:09,790
It threatens their way of life.

635
00:28:09,950 --> 00:28:13,250
It threatens the potential disease outbreak in these

636
00:28:13,250 --> 00:28:14,830
facilities.

637
00:28:15,310 --> 00:28:18,430
It's just a complete mess, and I think

638
00:28:18,430 --> 00:28:19,910
that we're going to stop it.

639
00:28:20,030 --> 00:28:22,330
I fully think it is going to be

640
00:28:22,330 --> 00:28:22,670
stopped.

641
00:28:22,810 --> 00:28:24,870
These people are not backing down.

642
00:28:25,050 --> 00:28:27,170
They, like I said, they are fighters and

643
00:28:27,170 --> 00:28:28,750
they're not backing down.

644
00:28:29,530 --> 00:28:33,830
And how does the whole budget cut initiative

645
00:28:33,830 --> 00:28:35,910
in Washington dovetail with that?

646
00:28:36,130 --> 00:28:39,110
Because a lot of the experiments that these

647
00:28:39,110 --> 00:28:41,190
monkeys, these poor monkeys would be used in,

648
00:28:41,270 --> 00:28:43,810
would be taxpayer funded through the National Institutes

649
00:28:43,810 --> 00:28:47,110
of Health, which is the largest funder of

650
00:28:47,110 --> 00:28:49,590
animal experimentation in the world.

651
00:28:50,070 --> 00:28:50,430
Lisa?

652
00:28:51,510 --> 00:28:51,930
Exactly.

653
00:28:52,210 --> 00:28:54,310
I mean, what, you know, Safer Human Medicine

654
00:28:54,310 --> 00:28:56,190
was supposed to have had their first monkey

655
00:28:56,190 --> 00:28:58,030
out the door for sale in December, and

656
00:28:58,030 --> 00:29:00,210
they haven't laid a single brick because this

657
00:29:00,210 --> 00:29:02,470
town is not going to let them do

658
00:29:02,470 --> 00:29:02,650
that.

659
00:29:02,750 --> 00:29:05,030
They're going to use every resource they have

660
00:29:05,030 --> 00:29:07,730
to stop this facility from coming to ground.

661
00:29:08,950 --> 00:29:10,890
And I think what Safer Human Medicine is

662
00:29:10,890 --> 00:29:15,010
also not being forthright about is that the

663
00:29:15,010 --> 00:29:19,370
use of primates in the pharmaceutical industry, which

664
00:29:19,370 --> 00:29:20,790
is who they would be selling these monkeys

665
00:29:20,790 --> 00:29:23,570
to, the clients are not using as many

666
00:29:23,570 --> 00:29:25,050
monkeys as they used to.

667
00:29:25,250 --> 00:29:27,330
The value, and I put that in big

668
00:29:27,330 --> 00:29:30,190
air quotes, of these monkeys has dropped precipitously.

669
00:29:30,190 --> 00:29:32,530
This, you know, they thought this was going

670
00:29:32,530 --> 00:29:35,130
to be a massive moneymaker, and it's not

671
00:29:35,130 --> 00:29:35,830
going to be.

672
00:29:36,590 --> 00:29:40,130
The demand is drying up, the supply is

673
00:29:40,130 --> 00:29:43,090
changing, and the awareness that people have of

674
00:29:43,090 --> 00:29:46,330
alternatives is meaning that the scientific community themselves

675
00:29:46,330 --> 00:29:48,650
are saying, no, I'm not going to waste

676
00:29:48,650 --> 00:29:52,830
my time and money and resources on a

677
00:29:52,830 --> 00:29:53,430
monkey model.

678
00:29:53,650 --> 00:29:56,130
I'm going to use a human relevant model,

679
00:29:56,130 --> 00:29:56,710
and they are.

680
00:29:56,910 --> 00:29:59,690
And so, you know, Safer Human Medicine has

681
00:29:59,690 --> 00:30:01,350
lost this one here in Georgia.

682
00:30:01,490 --> 00:30:04,890
They're clinging on with their fingernails, but I

683
00:30:04,890 --> 00:30:05,950
don't see how they're ever going to be

684
00:30:05,950 --> 00:30:07,130
able to go forward with this.

685
00:30:07,870 --> 00:30:10,150
Well, I want to say we invite Safer

686
00:30:10,150 --> 00:30:13,370
Human Medicine or any of the experimenters on

687
00:30:13,370 --> 00:30:15,650
primates or other animals that have been mentioned

688
00:30:15,650 --> 00:30:16,410
on anytime.

689
00:30:16,790 --> 00:30:19,470
I would love to dialogue with them.

690
00:30:19,850 --> 00:30:23,190
Now, let's talk about what PETA has done

691
00:30:23,190 --> 00:30:27,330
in terms of creating a roadmap for research

692
00:30:27,330 --> 00:30:28,310
modernisation.

693
00:30:28,630 --> 00:30:32,510
Again, newsflash to all those animal experimenters out

694
00:30:32,510 --> 00:30:36,030
there, we're in the 21st century, and there

695
00:30:36,030 --> 00:30:39,130
are plenty of more sophisticated and more modern

696
00:30:39,130 --> 00:30:43,690
methods of doing science than the mediaeval practise

697
00:30:43,690 --> 00:30:44,750
of torturing animals.

698
00:30:44,930 --> 00:30:46,890
You know, they've been breaking dog spinal cords

699
00:30:46,890 --> 00:30:48,970
since before Christ to see what happens, and

700
00:30:48,970 --> 00:30:49,790
they're still doing it.

701
00:30:50,450 --> 00:30:52,550
And nothing has changed in a lot of

702
00:30:52,550 --> 00:30:52,810
ways.

703
00:30:53,470 --> 00:30:56,670
It's so crazy that people buy this.

704
00:30:56,850 --> 00:31:00,050
But let's check out PETA's plan for research

705
00:31:00,050 --> 00:31:00,950
modernisation.

706
00:31:01,070 --> 00:31:03,250
Did you know that 95% of new

707
00:31:03,250 --> 00:31:04,910
drugs fail in human trials?

708
00:31:05,330 --> 00:31:08,030
All had passed animal testing, but ended up

709
00:31:08,030 --> 00:31:10,370
being either harmful or useless for the people

710
00:31:10,370 --> 00:31:10,970
who needed them.

711
00:31:10,970 --> 00:31:13,190
We need to end this waste, and we

712
00:31:13,190 --> 00:31:14,370
need to do it now.

713
00:31:15,170 --> 00:31:18,810
Research Modernisation Now, a roadmap developed by scientists,

714
00:31:19,150 --> 00:31:21,790
will shift science away from pointless and cruel

715
00:31:21,790 --> 00:31:24,790
experiments on animals, and toward life-saving research

716
00:31:24,790 --> 00:31:26,270
that can really help humans.

717
00:31:26,710 --> 00:31:29,250
Discover three ways you can stop wasting lives

718
00:31:29,250 --> 00:31:30,610
and tax funds today.

719
00:31:31,670 --> 00:31:36,110
So tell us, Amy, about PETA's roadmap for

720
00:31:36,110 --> 00:31:37,870
research modernisation now.

721
00:31:38,750 --> 00:31:41,810
Yeah, well, it's really the only comprehensive and

722
00:31:41,810 --> 00:31:45,910
common sense strategy for carefully replacing animal experiments

723
00:31:45,910 --> 00:31:48,810
with things like organs on a chip, artificial

724
00:31:48,810 --> 00:31:51,510
intelligence, sophisticated computer modelling.

725
00:31:52,270 --> 00:31:55,130
And what it really builds in is just

726
00:31:55,130 --> 00:31:58,670
some priorities of first stopping the experiments on

727
00:31:58,670 --> 00:32:02,990
animals where there is profound and expansive evidence

728
00:32:02,990 --> 00:32:05,790
that it is not working, where the numbers

729
00:32:05,790 --> 00:32:08,470
are even higher than that 95% failure

730
00:32:08,470 --> 00:32:10,710
of drugs rate.

731
00:32:11,590 --> 00:32:15,370
And then it also builds in a plan

732
00:32:15,370 --> 00:32:17,990
for training, of training new scientists in these

733
00:32:17,990 --> 00:32:20,330
better, more human-relevant models.

734
00:32:20,810 --> 00:32:24,210
It's really a wonderful comprehensive plan, and this

735
00:32:24,210 --> 00:32:26,170
is something that is so easy for people

736
00:32:26,170 --> 00:32:30,190
to take action to support this effort.

737
00:32:30,410 --> 00:32:33,170
You can go to PETA.org, and it's

738
00:32:33,170 --> 00:32:34,710
really easy if you're a US citizen.

739
00:32:35,010 --> 00:32:37,690
You can take action to send a letter

740
00:32:37,690 --> 00:32:39,670
to your member of Congress to support this

741
00:32:39,670 --> 00:32:40,090
effort.

742
00:32:40,970 --> 00:32:43,650
It's really, it would encompass everything.

743
00:32:43,810 --> 00:32:46,410
It doesn't, it's not only just about research

744
00:32:46,410 --> 00:32:49,670
happening on universities, experiments on animals happening at

745
00:32:49,670 --> 00:32:53,210
universities, but it's also about just the whole

746
00:32:53,210 --> 00:32:58,050
picture and really changing our priorities, especially through

747
00:32:58,050 --> 00:33:00,190
the National Institutes of Health, like we've been

748
00:33:00,190 --> 00:33:00,810
talking about.

749
00:33:00,910 --> 00:33:02,870
This would get at the big picture, start

750
00:33:02,870 --> 00:33:07,170
getting cures faster, and stop torturing animals in

751
00:33:07,170 --> 00:33:08,230
needless experiments.

752
00:33:08,550 --> 00:33:10,410
But you hit on a very important point.

753
00:33:10,530 --> 00:33:15,410
This is holding back life-saving research because

754
00:33:15,410 --> 00:33:17,150
it doesn't work.

755
00:33:17,490 --> 00:33:19,430
So doing it over and over again and

756
00:33:19,430 --> 00:33:22,470
torturing all these animals, some of these experiments

757
00:33:22,470 --> 00:33:24,270
have gone on for decades, doing the same

758
00:33:24,270 --> 00:33:27,810
exact thing over and over again, because as

759
00:33:27,810 --> 00:33:30,850
I understand it, Dr. Lisa, it's easy to

760
00:33:30,850 --> 00:33:32,890
come up with a project that involves killing

761
00:33:32,890 --> 00:33:33,230
animals.

762
00:33:33,450 --> 00:33:35,130
Like, well, we're going to find out whether,

763
00:33:35,410 --> 00:33:37,430
how long it takes 50% of these

764
00:33:37,430 --> 00:33:38,350
animals to die.

765
00:33:38,630 --> 00:33:41,230
It takes a lot more creativity to come

766
00:33:41,230 --> 00:33:45,270
up with something that is not just, oh,

767
00:33:45,350 --> 00:33:48,470
here's the death toll, and what might that

768
00:33:48,470 --> 00:33:51,850
or might not have that, have an impact

769
00:33:51,850 --> 00:33:52,450
on humans.

770
00:33:53,050 --> 00:33:55,570
You know what, they call it science, but

771
00:33:55,570 --> 00:33:57,870
it's really, it's just monkey business.

772
00:33:58,210 --> 00:34:01,750
It is about the business of using primates.

773
00:34:01,950 --> 00:34:04,130
I'm a primatologist, so I speak mostly about

774
00:34:04,130 --> 00:34:06,110
the primates, but it's about how do you

775
00:34:06,110 --> 00:34:09,449
squeeze the most out of these monkeys to

776
00:34:09,449 --> 00:34:12,090
kind of prop up your business or to

777
00:34:12,090 --> 00:34:14,710
generate your next publication?

778
00:34:15,350 --> 00:34:17,889
It's not science, it's a business.

779
00:34:18,250 --> 00:34:20,370
And these monkeys have paid the price for

780
00:34:20,370 --> 00:34:23,590
this for more than a century, and it's

781
00:34:23,590 --> 00:34:24,389
going to stop.

782
00:34:24,850 --> 00:34:28,170
And I think when the taxpayer realises that

783
00:34:28,170 --> 00:34:31,570
they too are paying the price, they're paying

784
00:34:31,570 --> 00:34:33,310
for the monkey, they're paying for the infrastructure,

785
00:34:33,670 --> 00:34:37,590
they're paying these massive salaries for these experimenters

786
00:34:37,590 --> 00:34:40,489
and the administrators, they're going to say, no,

787
00:34:40,610 --> 00:34:44,710
that's not what I pay my taxes for.

788
00:34:45,210 --> 00:34:49,350
I pay my taxes to do good research,

789
00:34:49,429 --> 00:34:50,570
to do sound research.

790
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:54,389
And so I think that this move to

791
00:34:54,389 --> 00:34:58,810
really dramatically reduce the IDCs, it is going

792
00:34:58,810 --> 00:35:01,870
to hit the animal researchers the heaviest because

793
00:35:01,870 --> 00:35:05,610
they are the biggest consumers of these resources.

794
00:35:05,910 --> 00:35:09,590
And I think the scientific and the political

795
00:35:09,590 --> 00:35:10,950
community are done with that.

796
00:35:11,830 --> 00:35:16,890
Well, a very interesting point by Milofar Ashgarian,

797
00:35:17,350 --> 00:35:21,190
the animal experimental industrial complex has to fall.

798
00:35:21,330 --> 00:35:22,170
It is a complex.

799
00:35:22,670 --> 00:35:24,230
And I have to say being in the

800
00:35:24,230 --> 00:35:26,270
media, the media is part of the complex.

801
00:35:26,750 --> 00:35:29,270
Again, if you look at the media coverage

802
00:35:29,270 --> 00:35:33,950
of the NIH proposed funding cuts, you'd think

803
00:35:33,950 --> 00:35:35,350
the sky was falling.

804
00:35:35,550 --> 00:35:37,870
Oh my God, it's the end of the

805
00:35:37,870 --> 00:35:40,230
world, an apocalypse, blah, blah, blah.

806
00:35:40,490 --> 00:35:43,070
But when you try to tell these same

807
00:35:43,070 --> 00:35:48,510
media organisations, right, that, hey, look at the

808
00:35:48,510 --> 00:35:52,130
stats, look at the outcomes, more than 95

809
00:35:52,130 --> 00:35:55,190
% of these experiments do not work.

810
00:35:56,030 --> 00:35:57,410
Basically, you're ignored.

811
00:35:58,310 --> 00:35:59,690
I wish you weren't.

812
00:35:59,990 --> 00:36:02,390
But how are we going to do with

813
00:36:02,390 --> 00:36:03,610
the media coverage, Amy?

814
00:36:04,770 --> 00:36:06,450
I think that's a great question, Jane.

815
00:36:06,470 --> 00:36:07,610
I wish I knew the answer.

816
00:36:07,870 --> 00:36:11,410
But it's interesting to me that you even

817
00:36:11,410 --> 00:36:13,710
see people who are defenders of the NIH,

818
00:36:14,470 --> 00:36:17,470
they recognise a lot of the problems that

819
00:36:17,470 --> 00:36:19,430
the NIH has, even the people who defend

820
00:36:19,430 --> 00:36:19,590
it.

821
00:36:19,730 --> 00:36:22,750
There is other issues beyond the animals being

822
00:36:22,750 --> 00:36:24,330
tortured that concern people.

823
00:36:24,590 --> 00:36:28,710
There is duplication happening across the country.

824
00:36:28,950 --> 00:36:33,930
There is research misconduct happening that people are

825
00:36:33,930 --> 00:36:34,690
being caught for.

826
00:36:34,770 --> 00:36:36,150
There's all kinds of issues.

827
00:36:36,150 --> 00:36:38,450
It should be, I think that it has

828
00:36:38,450 --> 00:36:40,590
been clear to a lot of people, even

829
00:36:40,590 --> 00:36:43,030
the most staunch supporters, that there needs to

830
00:36:43,030 --> 00:36:46,230
be some significant reforms at the NIH.

831
00:36:46,630 --> 00:36:49,190
And, you know, maybe just this kind of

832
00:36:49,190 --> 00:36:52,570
blanket sweep option is what has people so

833
00:36:52,570 --> 00:36:54,310
upset and afraid.

834
00:36:54,310 --> 00:36:55,710
And it was so fast.

835
00:36:55,730 --> 00:36:58,370
And usually, government is very slow to do

836
00:36:58,370 --> 00:36:58,790
anything.

837
00:36:58,790 --> 00:37:01,710
So maybe that's part of why we're seeing

838
00:37:01,710 --> 00:37:02,870
the reaction we are.

839
00:37:03,030 --> 00:37:07,270
But yeah, it is just a challenge with

840
00:37:07,270 --> 00:37:08,450
media, Jane.

841
00:37:08,710 --> 00:37:10,590
And a lot of them, you know, rely

842
00:37:11,150 --> 00:37:13,670
on some of these very industries that are

843
00:37:13,670 --> 00:37:14,530
making a lot of money.

844
00:37:14,710 --> 00:37:17,770
These universities are really powerful with local media,

845
00:37:17,950 --> 00:37:18,910
with local politicians.

846
00:37:19,250 --> 00:37:21,410
And so it was not a surprise at

847
00:37:21,410 --> 00:37:24,110
all that we saw just the next business

848
00:37:24,110 --> 00:37:27,170
day, 22 states had joined this lawsuit to

849
00:37:27,170 --> 00:37:31,510
try to stop the cuts that are being

850
00:37:31,510 --> 00:37:32,830
proposed at the NIH.

851
00:37:33,150 --> 00:37:35,210
You know, they're fighting against it, which I

852
00:37:35,210 --> 00:37:37,370
wasn't really surprised to see, to be honest.

853
00:37:37,590 --> 00:37:39,330
This is, it means a lot of money

854
00:37:39,330 --> 00:37:41,570
to basically every state.

855
00:37:42,170 --> 00:37:44,710
Well, also the media, if you look at

856
00:37:44,710 --> 00:37:47,690
the TV commercials, it's pharmaceuticals.

857
00:37:47,690 --> 00:37:49,910
There's a huge, huge pharmaceutical.

858
00:37:50,410 --> 00:37:53,690
I personally think it's crazy that we have

859
00:37:53,690 --> 00:37:57,470
advertising that says, ask your doctor for this

860
00:37:57,470 --> 00:37:57,710
pill.

861
00:37:57,970 --> 00:37:58,250
Hello?

862
00:37:58,910 --> 00:38:01,570
The doctors are supposed to assess what's wrong

863
00:38:01,570 --> 00:38:02,850
with you and make a recommendation.

864
00:38:02,850 --> 00:38:04,690
You're not supposed to go to the doctor

865
00:38:04,690 --> 00:38:07,810
like you're some drug addict looking for a

866
00:38:07,810 --> 00:38:09,710
drug pusher to give you your fix.

867
00:38:09,850 --> 00:38:11,970
You're supposed to go to a doctor and

868
00:38:11,970 --> 00:38:14,370
the doctor is supposed to say, okay, I

869
00:38:14,370 --> 00:38:15,910
think this is what's wrong with you.

870
00:38:15,970 --> 00:38:16,830
This is what you should do.

871
00:38:16,870 --> 00:38:18,890
But we've turned that on its head with

872
00:38:18,890 --> 00:38:19,630
these commercials.

873
00:38:19,970 --> 00:38:21,610
And so of course, you're going to see

874
00:38:21,610 --> 00:38:25,450
the media reacting in the way it's reacting.

875
00:38:25,810 --> 00:38:28,570
Oh, the sky's falling, these budget cuts.

876
00:38:29,270 --> 00:38:32,990
It's all the pillars, all the pillars of

877
00:38:32,990 --> 00:38:37,030
government and our democracy have been overtaken by

878
00:38:37,030 --> 00:38:38,150
these industries.

879
00:38:38,650 --> 00:38:41,870
And it's the courts to a certain degree,

880
00:38:41,990 --> 00:38:43,110
we'll see what the courts do.

881
00:38:43,650 --> 00:38:46,890
It's the media, which is the fourth estate.

882
00:38:47,410 --> 00:38:50,550
And it's the members of Congress as well

883
00:38:50,550 --> 00:38:54,570
who get, I believe the pharmaceutical industry is

884
00:38:54,570 --> 00:38:57,510
the largest, has the largest number of lobbyists

885
00:38:57,510 --> 00:38:58,550
in Washington.

886
00:38:59,630 --> 00:39:00,190
Lisa?

887
00:39:01,390 --> 00:39:03,650
I mean, one of the other things we

888
00:39:03,650 --> 00:39:05,150
haven't really touched on, but now that you

889
00:39:05,150 --> 00:39:07,450
brought up the pharmaceutical industry on this, now

890
00:39:07,450 --> 00:39:09,950
this industry has been bringing in tens of

891
00:39:09,950 --> 00:39:13,230
thousands of monkeys from Asia and Mauritius every

892
00:39:13,230 --> 00:39:13,470
year.

893
00:39:13,750 --> 00:39:16,090
And these animals have been arriving into the

894
00:39:16,090 --> 00:39:19,830
US infected with multiple strains of tuberculosis, with

895
00:39:19,830 --> 00:39:23,070
deadly diarrhoeal pathogens, with a tier one select

896
00:39:23,070 --> 00:39:23,570
agent.

897
00:39:24,190 --> 00:39:26,610
This industry is actually more likely to trigger

898
00:39:26,610 --> 00:39:29,850
the next pandemic than it is to provide

899
00:39:29,850 --> 00:39:32,470
meaningful improvements in human health.

900
00:39:32,630 --> 00:39:34,650
And trying to get the media to talk

901
00:39:34,650 --> 00:39:37,870
about that, that's been a real uphill battle

902
00:39:37,870 --> 00:39:38,250
as well.

903
00:39:38,310 --> 00:39:39,990
But that's the thing I think, and it's

904
00:39:39,990 --> 00:39:42,990
not just the pharmaceutical industry, within the primate

905
00:39:42,990 --> 00:39:47,150
centres themselves, we get reports of workers who

906
00:39:47,150 --> 00:39:49,830
get infected with things like Shigella or MRSA

907
00:39:49,830 --> 00:39:51,110
or tuberculosis.

908
00:39:52,010 --> 00:39:55,550
This is an incredibly dangerous industry, certainly for

909
00:39:55,550 --> 00:39:58,350
the monkeys, but also for the people who

910
00:39:58,350 --> 00:39:59,950
are working in it, which in large part

911
00:39:59,950 --> 00:40:02,390
is why this industry really has a terrible

912
00:40:02,390 --> 00:40:04,270
time maintaining staffing.

913
00:40:05,510 --> 00:40:05,650
Wow.

914
00:40:05,970 --> 00:40:07,850
Well, you know, there's a lot of talk

915
00:40:07,850 --> 00:40:10,370
these days about the 80-20 rule, that

916
00:40:10,370 --> 00:40:13,530
80% of outcomes are determined by 20

917
00:40:13,530 --> 00:40:14,430
% of inputs.

918
00:40:14,990 --> 00:40:17,170
And that's where I see abusive animals across

919
00:40:17,170 --> 00:40:17,690
the board.

920
00:40:18,210 --> 00:40:20,550
Our abuse of animals is creating at least

921
00:40:20,550 --> 00:40:22,410
80% of the problems that we're dealing

922
00:40:22,410 --> 00:40:23,530
with societally.

923
00:40:23,870 --> 00:40:25,550
I mean, whether you're talking about the pandemics,

924
00:40:25,650 --> 00:40:27,170
it doesn't matter whether you think it started

925
00:40:27,170 --> 00:40:28,710
in the Wuhan wet market where they were

926
00:40:28,710 --> 00:40:31,130
torturing animals to chop them up to sell

927
00:40:31,130 --> 00:40:33,130
them to be eaten, or you thought it

928
00:40:33,130 --> 00:40:34,750
started in the Wuhan lab where they were

929
00:40:34,750 --> 00:40:37,250
torturing animals in their various tests.

930
00:40:38,110 --> 00:40:39,610
It was animal torture.

931
00:40:39,970 --> 00:40:41,210
Now we've got the bird flu.

932
00:40:41,930 --> 00:40:44,970
And the list goes on and on.

933
00:40:45,270 --> 00:40:48,010
Certainly the health care costs as a result

934
00:40:48,010 --> 00:40:50,530
of our unhealthy diet, which is subsidised by

935
00:40:50,530 --> 00:40:53,490
the US government in its subsidies of commodity

936
00:40:53,490 --> 00:40:56,430
crops that are fed to animals and subsidies

937
00:40:56,430 --> 00:41:00,650
of farmers, bailing them out for natural disasters,

938
00:41:00,870 --> 00:41:01,810
et cetera, et cetera.

939
00:41:01,810 --> 00:41:03,590
I mean, the list goes on and on

940
00:41:03,590 --> 00:41:05,650
of all the problems that are created by

941
00:41:05,650 --> 00:41:08,870
our government's subsidy of animal abuse.

942
00:41:09,110 --> 00:41:11,870
And I just hope that even if the

943
00:41:11,870 --> 00:41:13,330
people who are looking at this do not

944
00:41:13,330 --> 00:41:15,510
care about animals at all, they're only trying

945
00:41:15,510 --> 00:41:17,850
to cut the budget, that they look at

946
00:41:17,850 --> 00:41:18,630
all of this.

947
00:41:19,250 --> 00:41:22,610
And of course, particularly the abuse of animals

948
00:41:22,610 --> 00:41:24,030
and specifically primates.

949
00:41:24,030 --> 00:41:27,830
You know, I guess I wanted to ask,

950
00:41:28,190 --> 00:41:30,830
how is PETA able to weigh in on

951
00:41:30,830 --> 00:41:32,470
this debate right now?

952
00:41:32,550 --> 00:41:35,070
Is there a way to get to those

953
00:41:35,070 --> 00:41:37,290
people who are making those decisions and say,

954
00:41:37,750 --> 00:41:40,710
hey, here's another reason why you should cut

955
00:41:40,710 --> 00:41:41,250
or not?

956
00:41:41,670 --> 00:41:41,950
Amy?

957
00:41:42,830 --> 00:41:43,850
Yeah, absolutely.

958
00:41:44,050 --> 00:41:47,230
We are working on getting our information to

959
00:41:47,230 --> 00:41:49,210
as many people as we can who are

960
00:41:49,210 --> 00:41:50,350
in positions of power.

961
00:41:50,510 --> 00:41:52,870
We are always trying to get our good,

962
00:41:53,230 --> 00:41:56,610
solid, scientifically backed information to people in power

963
00:41:56,610 --> 00:42:00,230
and making it so that the agenda they're

964
00:42:00,230 --> 00:42:02,730
wanting to push is one that could help

965
00:42:02,730 --> 00:42:03,250
animals.

966
00:42:03,670 --> 00:42:06,390
That is something, this could be doing so

967
00:42:06,390 --> 00:42:08,750
much good for animals in laboratories.

968
00:42:08,990 --> 00:42:11,230
If they want to look at cutting funding

969
00:42:11,230 --> 00:42:15,130
to the NIH, there's so much that could

970
00:42:15,130 --> 00:42:18,090
be done to cut funding that is just

971
00:42:18,090 --> 00:42:19,250
torturing animals.

972
00:42:19,350 --> 00:42:22,450
They've been doing it decade after decade, countless

973
00:42:22,450 --> 00:42:25,350
animals dead with nothing to show for it.

974
00:42:26,370 --> 00:42:28,590
We've talked about how devastating it is for

975
00:42:28,590 --> 00:42:30,790
the animals, for the workers inside of these

976
00:42:30,790 --> 00:42:33,430
places, but it's also devastating for all of

977
00:42:33,430 --> 00:42:35,730
us because we don't have the cures that

978
00:42:35,730 --> 00:42:38,990
we all are desperately hoping for ourselves or

979
00:42:38,990 --> 00:42:40,310
our family or our friends.

980
00:42:40,670 --> 00:42:44,730
If we can embrace PETA's research modernisation now

981
00:42:44,730 --> 00:42:47,950
and start investing instead in these more human

982
00:42:47,950 --> 00:42:51,090
relevant forms of research and put all those

983
00:42:51,090 --> 00:42:54,210
billions of dollars we're wasting, tormenting 100 million

984
00:42:54,210 --> 00:42:56,550
animals every year, if we funnel that instead

985
00:42:56,550 --> 00:43:00,410
to these human relevant research models, we're going

986
00:43:00,410 --> 00:43:02,690
to get to those answers that we all

987
00:43:02,690 --> 00:43:06,270
are looking for much faster and without torturing

988
00:43:06,270 --> 00:43:07,710
and killing anyone in the process.

989
00:43:08,870 --> 00:43:11,110
Well, from your mouth to God's ear, I

990
00:43:11,110 --> 00:43:14,230
hope that this all comes together.

991
00:43:14,830 --> 00:43:20,950
Again, it is just a really unique opportunity.

992
00:43:22,250 --> 00:43:24,610
Amira John says, one has to be a

993
00:43:24,610 --> 00:43:26,490
sadist to work in this industry and totally

994
00:43:26,490 --> 00:43:28,030
out of touch with reality.

995
00:43:28,250 --> 00:43:30,470
If this was about science, they would have

996
00:43:30,470 --> 00:43:33,650
discovered another way long ago.

997
00:43:34,150 --> 00:43:38,450
Yes, it really is about money and it's

998
00:43:38,450 --> 00:43:44,630
about basically people who are living lavish lifestyles

999
00:43:44,630 --> 00:43:49,010
off of government funding, doing these nonsensical experiments

1000
00:43:49,010 --> 00:43:51,650
that are incredibly cruel over and over again,

1001
00:43:51,810 --> 00:43:55,150
and the universities encourage it because they get

1002
00:43:55,150 --> 00:44:02,110
a that's exactly what it is.

1003
00:44:02,590 --> 00:44:04,690
When you get your grant from the National

1004
00:44:04,690 --> 00:44:06,470
Institutes of Health and you say, all right,

1005
00:44:06,630 --> 00:44:08,470
it's going to cost me a half million

1006
00:44:08,470 --> 00:44:11,730
dollars over a year for five years to

1007
00:44:11,730 --> 00:44:14,410
do whatever experiments that I'm planning on these

1008
00:44:14,410 --> 00:44:14,710
monkeys.

1009
00:44:15,870 --> 00:44:19,390
The university, I'll speak to the University of

1010
00:44:19,390 --> 00:44:20,710
Washington because that's the one where I was

1011
00:44:20,710 --> 00:44:23,670
working at and most familiar with, NIH gives

1012
00:44:23,670 --> 00:44:26,570
them another 83 cents on that dollar for

1013
00:44:26,570 --> 00:44:27,650
these indirect costs.

1014
00:44:28,450 --> 00:44:33,650
The incentive for the university to keep this

1015
00:44:33,650 --> 00:44:36,010
gravy train rolling is astonishing.

1016
00:44:36,530 --> 00:44:40,670
The incentive for the investigator, the experimenter to

1017
00:44:40,670 --> 00:44:42,990
end up with a $200,000, $300,000,

1018
00:44:43,150 --> 00:44:47,270
$400,000 annual salary as they are just

1019
00:44:47,270 --> 00:44:51,270
grinding through this taxpayer money, it's all been

1020
00:44:51,270 --> 00:44:52,510
laid out there for them.

1021
00:44:52,630 --> 00:44:54,630
This has been the standard.

1022
00:44:54,850 --> 00:44:58,450
This has been what's been acceptable for decades

1023
00:44:58,450 --> 00:45:01,910
and what happened last week, earlier this week,

1024
00:45:01,990 --> 00:45:05,450
when the idea that that gravy train would

1025
00:45:05,450 --> 00:45:09,500
be cut off, people are terrified.

1026
00:45:10,300 --> 00:45:12,080
There will be impacts to some of the

1027
00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:14,580
science, but there are some areas of science,

1028
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:17,940
particularly in the National Research Centres, you could

1029
00:45:17,940 --> 00:45:19,020
wipe those out tomorrow.

1030
00:45:19,180 --> 00:45:20,980
You could end all of that funding tomorrow,

1031
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:24,940
get those animals into sanctuary, retrain, redirect those

1032
00:45:24,940 --> 00:45:30,220
scientists into meaningful, relevant fields of science, and

1033
00:45:30,220 --> 00:45:31,960
we would all be better for that.

1034
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:33,240
Wow.

1035
00:45:33,380 --> 00:45:35,080
Well, from your mouth to God's ear, as

1036
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:37,700
they say, let's hope that happens.

1037
00:45:39,240 --> 00:45:43,100
I've been just grappling with this unique opportunity

1038
00:45:43,100 --> 00:45:44,820
that comes along.

1039
00:45:45,140 --> 00:45:48,500
You don't expect, well, what's going to happen?

1040
00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:50,400
Boom, there's just this window.

1041
00:45:50,900 --> 00:45:52,600
How do we get to the powers that

1042
00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:55,740
be to make sure that this funding is

1043
00:45:55,740 --> 00:45:56,020
cut?

1044
00:45:57,280 --> 00:46:00,140
You have, for example, the Cargo Act, which

1045
00:46:00,140 --> 00:46:02,660
I think is an incredible idea that Pete

1046
00:46:02,660 --> 00:46:05,720
has come up with, which essentially says these

1047
00:46:05,720 --> 00:46:10,680
overseas research labs that taxpayers are funding here

1048
00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:13,660
in the United States, they've got to go.

1049
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:19,600
There's one particularly horrific example that PETA uncovered

1050
00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:20,920
for two decades.

1051
00:46:21,820 --> 00:46:24,920
This lab was run in Columbia, monkeys left

1052
00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:26,800
in their waste, left to die from infected

1053
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:27,240
wounds.

1054
00:46:27,720 --> 00:46:31,780
The NIH, which funded, never inspected this laboratory.

1055
00:46:33,020 --> 00:46:36,060
The NIH is using our tax dollars to

1056
00:46:36,060 --> 00:46:38,080
bankroll these hell holes.

1057
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:39,640
This isn't a lab.

1058
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:40,740
This isn't science.

1059
00:46:41,020 --> 00:46:42,820
This is a nightmare.

1060
00:46:43,700 --> 00:46:47,260
PETA shut this lab down and wants to

1061
00:46:47,260 --> 00:46:50,500
shut all the other labs around the world

1062
00:46:50,500 --> 00:46:53,820
that our tax dollars are funding shut down.

1063
00:46:54,020 --> 00:46:57,560
That's why I think everybody should support the

1064
00:46:57,560 --> 00:46:58,480
Cargo Act.

1065
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:01,220
I know if you go to PETA.org,

1066
00:47:01,620 --> 00:47:05,740
you can actually also use your...

1067
00:47:05,740 --> 00:47:08,240
What I love about PETA is that in

1068
00:47:08,240 --> 00:47:09,920
two seconds, you can send a letter.

1069
00:47:10,540 --> 00:47:12,640
They've got it down to a fine science

1070
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:15,080
where sometimes, once you sign up, I'll get

1071
00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:15,840
these texts.

1072
00:47:16,260 --> 00:47:18,420
Here, just hit Y and it sends a

1073
00:47:18,420 --> 00:47:20,380
dozen letters to members of Congress.

1074
00:47:20,980 --> 00:47:23,340
You definitely want to go to PETA.org

1075
00:47:23,340 --> 00:47:27,180
and get on their list so that I

1076
00:47:27,180 --> 00:47:30,120
get emails, whatever I'm doing, and I get

1077
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:31,920
an email from PETA and I'm busy, let

1078
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:32,440
me tell you.

1079
00:47:32,820 --> 00:47:34,080
I stop what I'm doing because I know

1080
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:36,560
in 30 seconds, I'll be able to send

1081
00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:38,880
a message to a whole bunch of members

1082
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:41,600
of Congress or whoever else you've suggested that

1083
00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:42,480
we reach out to.

1084
00:47:42,780 --> 00:47:45,080
It's like this, boom, boom, boom, and it's

1085
00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:45,380
done.

1086
00:47:46,380 --> 00:47:48,140
That's why it's important to sign up to

1087
00:47:48,140 --> 00:47:50,060
PETA.org so that you get on that

1088
00:47:50,060 --> 00:47:52,060
list because it's a numbers game.

1089
00:47:52,140 --> 00:47:53,380
Is it not, Amy?

1090
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:55,600
You're absolutely right.

1091
00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:58,580
As someone who spent a lot of time

1092
00:47:58,580 --> 00:48:01,540
as a grassroots activist before joining PETA, I

1093
00:48:01,540 --> 00:48:05,140
honestly really underestimated the power of these simple

1094
00:48:05,140 --> 00:48:07,900
actions that don't take me any time.

1095
00:48:07,980 --> 00:48:09,200
It is, like you said, just the push

1096
00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:11,780
of a button and this letter is going

1097
00:48:11,780 --> 00:48:13,860
to my member of Congress because I put

1098
00:48:13,860 --> 00:48:14,760
in my address.

1099
00:48:15,300 --> 00:48:17,100
You don't have to know who your member

1100
00:48:17,100 --> 00:48:19,900
of Congress is to encourage them to support

1101
00:48:19,900 --> 00:48:20,660
the Cargo Act.

1102
00:48:20,700 --> 00:48:22,760
You just go to PETA.org, look for

1103
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:24,800
the Cargo Act and put in your address

1104
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:26,560
and it will do that all for you.

1105
00:48:27,500 --> 00:48:31,460
Coming on the primate side of things, sometimes

1106
00:48:31,460 --> 00:48:33,740
we have a hard time getting a response

1107
00:48:33,740 --> 00:48:34,580
from an agency.

1108
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:35,920
They are not responding to us.

1109
00:48:36,020 --> 00:48:37,720
We are trying to work nicely with them.

1110
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:40,740
We'll send out an action alert to our

1111
00:48:40,740 --> 00:48:43,240
members to say, hey, push this button, send

1112
00:48:43,240 --> 00:48:44,960
this email, we need the Fish and Wildlife

1113
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:46,660
or whoever to pay attention to us.

1114
00:48:47,140 --> 00:48:50,820
Then sometimes the next day, they're finally calling

1115
00:48:50,820 --> 00:48:53,100
me after me trying for months to get

1116
00:48:53,100 --> 00:48:53,560
a hold of them.

1117
00:48:53,660 --> 00:48:56,180
They're saying, okay, make these emails stop.

1118
00:48:56,420 --> 00:48:57,160
What do you want?

1119
00:48:57,880 --> 00:49:00,160
It's so important.

1120
00:49:00,660 --> 00:49:03,680
It might feel like maybe you don't realise

1121
00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:05,680
how important it is, but from our side

1122
00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:07,820
of things, this is how we create change

1123
00:49:07,820 --> 00:49:10,680
is just this mass mobilisation of people.

1124
00:49:10,900 --> 00:49:12,840
There's all kinds of ways to get involved.

1125
00:49:13,380 --> 00:49:15,380
PETA.org, though, like you said, Jane, that's

1126
00:49:15,380 --> 00:49:17,120
just one easy way you could be getting

1127
00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:18,120
involved every day.

1128
00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:18,720
Yes.

1129
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:22,660
I love it because a lot of times

1130
00:49:22,660 --> 00:49:24,380
the things that we're working on, we don't

1131
00:49:24,380 --> 00:49:25,960
know what the impact is going to be.

1132
00:49:26,060 --> 00:49:28,220
We don't know if there's a finish line.

1133
00:49:28,500 --> 00:49:30,020
Every time I hit that button with PETA,

1134
00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:32,440
I know, oh, something's gotten done.

1135
00:49:32,700 --> 00:49:35,340
I've hit the finish line, which is so

1136
00:49:35,340 --> 00:49:36,880
rare with animal activism.

1137
00:49:37,020 --> 00:49:37,920
A lot of times you can do a

1138
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:39,640
lot of things and not know what the

1139
00:49:39,640 --> 00:49:40,240
impact is.

1140
00:49:40,580 --> 00:49:43,000
By the way, we have a very, very

1141
00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:45,320
special guest watching.

1142
00:49:45,620 --> 00:49:48,280
Jenny Desmond says, thanks for all the amazing

1143
00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:49,100
work to PETA.

1144
00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:54,800
She runs the Liberian chimpanzee rescue with her

1145
00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:55,220
husband.

1146
00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:59,640
They have an incredible story where they literally

1147
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:01,280
upended their lives.

1148
00:50:01,620 --> 00:50:04,260
Her husband's a veterinarian to go to Liberia

1149
00:50:04,260 --> 00:50:08,480
after a whole lot of chimps were abandoned

1150
00:50:09,540 --> 00:50:11,780
by the New York Blood Centre.

1151
00:50:12,500 --> 00:50:14,180
There was a huge controversy.

1152
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:17,580
Finally, after a lot of activists I was

1153
00:50:17,580 --> 00:50:19,600
there for a few, did die-ins and

1154
00:50:19,600 --> 00:50:22,500
protests, the New York Blood Centre did agree

1155
00:50:22,500 --> 00:50:26,180
to pay for the care of the monkeys

1156
00:50:26,180 --> 00:50:27,700
as they should have from day one.

1157
00:50:28,780 --> 00:50:31,780
Then all these other orphan monkeys started coming

1158
00:50:31,780 --> 00:50:35,460
in and Jenny Desmond and her husband stayed

1159
00:50:35,460 --> 00:50:38,000
in Liberia where they are to this day

1160
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:42,660
caring for all these other orphan monkeys, orphaned

1161
00:50:42,660 --> 00:50:47,060
from the illegal pet trade, from the bushmeat

1162
00:50:47,060 --> 00:50:48,320
trade, et cetera, et cetera.

1163
00:50:48,460 --> 00:50:49,520
Great work, Jenny.

1164
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:52,280
We love you and I'm so excited that

1165
00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:54,960
you are watching our show.

1166
00:50:55,760 --> 00:50:58,700
She's probably watching from Liberia, which is great.

1167
00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:00,500
People watch from all around the world.

1168
00:51:01,660 --> 00:51:04,120
We've only got a few minutes, perhaps since

1169
00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:06,740
there are so many breaking news stories surrounding

1170
00:51:06,740 --> 00:51:10,720
the chimpanzee issue, how would you sum it

1171
00:51:10,720 --> 00:51:10,920
up?

1172
00:51:11,080 --> 00:51:13,560
What are your final thoughts, Dr. Lisa?

1173
00:51:16,620 --> 00:51:18,280
We're at a critical point.

1174
00:51:19,220 --> 00:51:22,460
We've seen the scientific community move away here

1175
00:51:22,460 --> 00:51:23,840
in the U.S. from using chimpanzees.

1176
00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:25,060
We saw that a decade ago.

1177
00:51:25,380 --> 00:51:28,200
The scientists said they weren't giving us the

1178
00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:31,020
use of chimps, wasn't giving us the answers,

1179
00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:31,980
the data that we needed.

1180
00:51:32,220 --> 00:51:33,520
Ethically, it was a problem.

1181
00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:35,460
Those animals were then on the Endangered Species

1182
00:51:35,460 --> 00:51:35,820
Act.

1183
00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:41,780
The industry pivoted towards monkeys, towards macaques, and

1184
00:51:41,780 --> 00:51:46,000
we saw a huge burst of grabbing those

1185
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:47,800
animals from everywhere around the world.

1186
00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:51,440
We're at that next inflexion point.

1187
00:51:51,960 --> 00:51:54,140
Everything is now saying we need to be

1188
00:51:54,140 --> 00:51:55,420
done completely with primates.

1189
00:51:55,940 --> 00:51:57,040
The money is drying up.

1190
00:51:57,380 --> 00:51:59,200
The populations of animals are drying up.

1191
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:02,860
We've got better scientific ways of getting the

1192
00:52:02,860 --> 00:52:03,600
information we need.

1193
00:52:03,880 --> 00:52:06,860
We now know of the public health risks

1194
00:52:06,860 --> 00:52:10,020
that are associated with using these primates.

1195
00:52:10,720 --> 00:52:14,060
Jane, I think we're at that cusp.

1196
00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:17,960
It just takes people asking the questions, digging

1197
00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:21,360
in, sending the emails, being very vocal about

1198
00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:23,080
this is not how I want my money

1199
00:52:23,080 --> 00:52:23,500
used.

1200
00:52:24,620 --> 00:52:26,460
That'll get us to the next step where

1201
00:52:26,460 --> 00:52:28,960
we'll see every one of these animals who

1202
00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:32,180
have been used in experimentation in the U

1203
00:52:32,180 --> 00:52:35,140
.S., all these primates, they deserve a happy

1204
00:52:35,140 --> 00:52:37,280
ending, and that would be in sanctuary.

1205
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:41,840
That's what I'm wanting to see soon.

1206
00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:45,260
Amy, what are your final thoughts?

1207
00:52:46,500 --> 00:52:48,680
I think, like you said, Jane, there's just

1208
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:50,880
so much happening, so much news constantly.

1209
00:52:51,200 --> 00:52:54,060
I really encourage folks to follow PETA.org

1210
00:52:54,060 --> 00:52:54,740
for the latest.

1211
00:52:55,260 --> 00:52:58,380
We expect more news coming in the upcoming

1212
00:52:58,380 --> 00:52:58,940
weeks.

1213
00:52:59,120 --> 00:53:00,700
We will be staying on top of things

1214
00:53:00,700 --> 00:53:03,200
to make sure we are making the most

1215
00:53:03,200 --> 00:53:05,640
use out of every current event to make

1216
00:53:05,640 --> 00:53:08,480
sure that everything is focused as much as

1217
00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:10,860
we can on shutting down these places and,

1218
00:53:10,980 --> 00:53:13,960
like Lisa said, getting these remaining victims to

1219
00:53:13,960 --> 00:53:16,520
places of sanctuary where they can finally live

1220
00:53:16,520 --> 00:53:18,660
like the monkeys that they are.

1221
00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:22,420
I will say my final thought is right

1222
00:53:22,420 --> 00:53:24,460
now we have to do everything that we

1223
00:53:24,460 --> 00:53:26,720
can to reach the powers that be who

1224
00:53:26,720 --> 00:53:29,340
want to cut funding and say this is

1225
00:53:29,340 --> 00:53:30,740
the area to cut.

1226
00:53:31,180 --> 00:53:34,440
I was reading an article about how one

1227
00:53:34,440 --> 00:53:38,460
individual posted something on X about what he

1228
00:53:38,460 --> 00:53:42,040
felt was ridiculous government spending, and it caught

1229
00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:44,260
the eye of the owner of X, Elon

1230
00:53:44,260 --> 00:53:45,700
Musk, who is the head of DOGE, the

1231
00:53:45,700 --> 00:53:49,460
Department of Government Efficiency, or worse to that

1232
00:53:49,460 --> 00:53:52,380
effect, and the cut then ended up making

1233
00:53:52,380 --> 00:53:52,860
headlines.

1234
00:53:52,860 --> 00:53:54,820
I think we are in the same position.

1235
00:53:55,320 --> 00:53:57,080
That does not mean we endorse every single

1236
00:53:57,080 --> 00:53:57,360
cut.

1237
00:53:58,180 --> 00:54:00,580
Again, I want to say that the monkeys

1238
00:54:00,580 --> 00:54:03,940
do not care what your political allegiance is,

1239
00:54:04,060 --> 00:54:07,760
whether you are Republican, Democrat, liberal, conservative, libertarian,

1240
00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:10,000
socialist, Green Party, whatever.

1241
00:54:10,300 --> 00:54:11,520
They just want to get out of the

1242
00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:11,820
cages.

1243
00:54:12,280 --> 00:54:14,440
They want to get those electrodes out of

1244
00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:14,940
their brains.

1245
00:54:15,020 --> 00:54:16,280
They want to stop the torture.

1246
00:54:16,820 --> 00:54:18,980
Frankly, it is torture for us.

1247
00:54:19,340 --> 00:54:21,300
It is torture for me personally to know

1248
00:54:21,300 --> 00:54:22,940
that these animals are being tortured and that

1249
00:54:22,940 --> 00:54:24,540
my tax dollars have to go to it.

1250
00:54:25,140 --> 00:54:29,860
I would do anything to make it stop.

1251
00:54:30,160 --> 00:54:31,160
Make it stop.

1252
00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:37,400
It is just too stupid.

1253
00:54:37,740 --> 00:54:40,980
It is too stupid more than anything else.

1254
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:42,500
We have got to end it.

1255
00:54:42,840 --> 00:54:44,920
I just want to thank all of you

1256
00:54:44,920 --> 00:54:47,120
for being a part of this broadcast.

1257
00:54:47,560 --> 00:54:49,760
These are two very, very busy people, and

1258
00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:51,500
they took the time out of their very

1259
00:54:51,500 --> 00:54:54,180
busy schedule to talk to us and bring

1260
00:54:54,180 --> 00:54:54,940
us up to date.

1261
00:54:55,140 --> 00:54:58,100
I always say, please download the Unchained TV

1262
00:54:58,100 --> 00:54:58,620
app.

1263
00:54:58,940 --> 00:55:01,660
We are the world's only free non-profit

1264
00:55:01,660 --> 00:55:05,760
vegan streaming television network, animal rights streaming television

1265
00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:06,200
network.

1266
00:55:06,660 --> 00:55:07,980
We are on your phone.

1267
00:55:08,360 --> 00:55:12,040
We are also on your TV.

1268
00:55:12,300 --> 00:55:13,560
It is on there behind me.

1269
00:55:13,900 --> 00:55:15,060
It is also on your tablet.

1270
00:55:15,680 --> 00:55:18,740
I really appreciate everybody downloading it.

1271
00:55:18,820 --> 00:55:20,360
It is 100% free.

1272
00:55:20,980 --> 00:55:23,340
It is a way to stay up to

1273
00:55:23,340 --> 00:55:26,860
date with the animal rights movement as it

1274
00:55:26,860 --> 00:55:27,600
happens.

1275
00:55:28,040 --> 00:55:29,920
It is a vegan Netflix.

1276
00:55:30,240 --> 00:55:32,120
That is the thing I have ever heard.

1277
00:55:32,140 --> 00:55:33,340
I love Unchained TV.

1278
00:55:33,620 --> 00:55:35,380
Unchained TV.

1279
00:55:35,540 --> 00:55:36,340
Your life will change.

1280
00:55:36,540 --> 00:55:37,520
It is just that easy.

1281
00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:40,360
Unchained TV has all sorts of content for

1282
00:55:40,360 --> 00:55:40,840
everybody.

1283
00:55:41,220 --> 00:55:43,280
Unchained TV changed my life.

1284
00:55:43,620 --> 00:55:46,400
Unchained TV is crushing it.

1285
00:55:46,540 --> 00:55:48,060
I love Unchained TV.

1286
00:55:48,340 --> 00:55:50,060
Unchained TV is my go-to.

1287
00:55:50,360 --> 00:55:51,160
Unchained TV.

1288
00:55:51,640 --> 00:55:52,160
Who knew?