UnchainedTV: New Bestseller Reveals Secret to Saving Animals

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Jump to the next phase of human evolution?

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All it takes is one simple choice.

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Now here's your host, Jane Velez Mitchell.

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We've got an exciting show for you because

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we're talking to Judy Mancuso, and she has

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an instant bestseller.

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It's called Because They Need Us, and she

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reveals the secrets of how she's been the

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driving force behind almost 30 laws that protect

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animals.

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Her book, I couldn't put it down, it

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reads like a thriller.

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She goes up against these very powerful interests

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that exploit animals, and now she is here

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to tell us exactly how she did it,

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along with the right-hand man, Nick Sackett.

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Together, they run Social Compassion in Legislation, and

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she has passed almost 30 bills to save

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animals.

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Do you know how hard that is?

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30 bills.

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I am very excited to introduce the one

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and only Judy Mancuso.

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Hopefully, you'll get her book because I literally

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could not put it down.

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I was reading it until midnight last night.

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Judy, you start out with this incredible story

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of how you went up against a very

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powerful man representing a very powerful industry, and

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you spoke truth to power.

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Tell us about that.

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Sometimes, we find ourselves fighting bills.

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The goal of my group was to bring

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legislation forward that saves and protects animals, but

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at the same time, there's other folks doing

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legislation that would harm animals.

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That is what we were faced with.

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California had banned the sale of crocodile and

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alligator skins in the 70s.

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Now, all of a sudden, there was a

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sunset, meaning that the law could go away,

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whether it would get reinstated or not.

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There was a move to do away with

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this law from the alligator breeders in Louisiana,

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and so we had to pivot to fight

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that bill because we didn't want the cruelty

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and that market to start back up.

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A guy walks in to a meeting room.

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What happened?

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Well, he proceeded to tell me that we

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had common ground, which we did not.

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Then, he actually segued into offering us money

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to go away and stop fighting the bill

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because we had killed a couple versions of

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it, and they were trying to get another

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one going.

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He offered us money.

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How much money?

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Well, at first, it was $500,000.

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Wow.

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You said?

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No.

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Why would I take money from an industry

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that I am 100% against and trying

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to prevent from proliferating in our state?

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It would be opposite to our values.

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He was trying to- Then, what did

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he do?

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Well, he was trying to tell me, but

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I could use it to further our work.

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Then, the number went up to, what about

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$1 million?

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You could spread it around to some of

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your friends, too.

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I wasn't having any of it.

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It just wasn't going to happen, so we

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ended the conversation, and he left in a

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huff.

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You have worked with so many celebrities.

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There's Pierce Brosnan, and there you are with

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the governors of the state of California, Bob

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Barker, so many.

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There you are with Hillary Clinton.

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They're in a group that's Jean-Paul D

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'Aujourd and, of course, Joaquin Phoenix.

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You have mobilised celebrities, and this is your

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battle to pass the Cruelty-Free Cosmetics Act.

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Tell us about that because that may very

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well be your most famous piece of legislation.

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How did you get the Cruelty-Free Cosmetics

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Act passed?

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I always wanted to do something.

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I dreamed about stopping animal testing because it

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is the cruellest of cruel and how many

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animals die, but I just couldn't imagine how

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to make a dent in it, and it's

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such an enormous industry.

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I met Dr. Neil Bernard with Physicians Committee

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for Responsible Medicine, and he congratulated me on

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the work that I was doing.

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Of course, I admire his work so much.

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He said, maybe we could join forces in

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the future.

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We had a brainstorming session with him and

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his staff, and we came up with what

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if we could pass a law in the

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state of California, which is the fifth largest

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economy in the world, and that would stop

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selling cosmetics and personal hygiene products that have

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been tested on animals.

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It seemed like an enormous, tall order, but

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if we could move the market, then this

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would further the market of cruelty-free, which

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is what people want anyway, a lot of

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people want, and do away with these cruel

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personal hygiene products and cosmetics.

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We got an author, which was Senator Kathleen

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Galgiani, and off we went.

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That's a photo you're showing of one of

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our big press conferences, and we got it

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done.

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It's the law in California and has been

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copied in, I don't know, maybe 11 states.

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It changes every year, so I don't know

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what the current number is.

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This is a way to affect change in

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our state with 40 million people, fifth largest

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economy, but then have a ripple effect across

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the world, across other states.

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You're saving animals exponentially.

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Nick Sackett, I want to bring you in

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because you have worked so closely with Judy

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Mancuso.

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There's so much legislation here that you guys

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have passed, almost 30 bills that have been

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copied.

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Many of them have been copied.

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They get passed here in California, which, as

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Judy mentioned, is the fifth largest economy in

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the world.

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They get copied in other places like New

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York, for example, which is another very important

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state.

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How do you do it?

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What do you think the secret sauce is

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that makes social compassion and legislation so effective?

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Thanks, Jane.

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I have to say it's Judy's and our

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longevity in Sacramento that is tremendously helpful.

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Legislators in Sacramento, they know who we are.

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If they have questions about laws pertaining to

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animals, many times they will reach out to

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us directly rather than us going to them.

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Judy has been working on these issues in

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California for decades now.

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She has a long history up and down

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the state.

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I think that's number one.

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Number two is we're always looking to collaborate

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with other groups, PETA, Physicians Committee for Responsible

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Medicine, Centre for Biological Diversity.

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Anyone who wants to work in a coalition

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to get things done, we're willing to do

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that.

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I think that's number two.

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Number three is just our commitment to the

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cause.

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Like Judy said, we turned down a million

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dollars just to not oppose a bill.

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People see that.

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They didn't see that until Judy wrote it

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in the book because it was behind closed

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doors, but it's a reflection of our values

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that we don't back down from our values.

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That's how we get things done over the

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years.

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Well, you really have become a force in

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Sacramento.

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Given that California is the fifth largest economy

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in the world, that means you are a

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force across the United States, as well as

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the world, as other states and even other

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nations pick up on some of the things

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you've done.

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Now, one of the biggest and one of

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the earliest things you did was the licence

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plate called the Pet Lover's Licence Plate.

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It's the Spay and Neuter Saves Lives Licence

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Plate.

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I have one.

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Tell us about this and how it raises

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money for spay-neuter and how people can

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still get it to this day.

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I think everybody who is driving a car

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in California should have one of these licence

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plates.

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How do they get it and why is

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it important?

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Well, if they did have it, we could

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solve our pet overpopulation problem because there's over

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30 million registered vehicles in the state of

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California.

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We wouldn't need every one of them to

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solve it, but boy, if we had a

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big share of it, we could.

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You go to dmv.ca.gov and when

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you're registering your vehicle, there's a place where

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you can choose a speciality plate.

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When it brings down the list, you pick

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the Pet Lover's Plate.

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$40 from your registration every year goes into

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a fund.

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Then once a year, that money gets distributed

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to providers of spay and neuter, which can

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be shelters or vet clinics.

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Right now, we're at $2.3 million that

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has been raised through the plate.

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That's an impressive number and it is so

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exciting, but it could be so much more.

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Thank you for bringing that up because I'd

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love to urge everyone in California, please get

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a Pet Lover's Licence Plate.

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We need you.

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Now, California is in the midst of a

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pet overpopulation crisis.

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How do I know?

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Because I have two pets.

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This one, whose name is Wednesday, somebody tried

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to drop her at a shelter and the

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shelter actually said, we have no room.

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Put her back where you found her.

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Luckily, somebody heard this who was a rescuer

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and grabbed her.

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She had no identification, nothing.

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This is a crisis.

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The shelters are overflowing.

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Why is that happening?

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How does the Pet Lover's Licence Plate and

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all of your efforts fit into that, Judy?

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Well, it's overbreeding and oops litters and people

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getting animals from out of state, out of

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country.

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So unaltered animals having many, many litters that

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find their way into the shelters and then

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there's not enough space.

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So the shelters euthanise the animals and that's

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what pet overpopulation is.

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When we are literally killing animals, putting them

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down because we don't have enough space, we

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can't hold them, we can't help them to

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get adopted.

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That is an overpopulation crisis.

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And we've been working on legislation over the

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years to mitigate it, which has been helpful.

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Our microchipping bill, one of the problems when

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animals come into shelters, the reason why we

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can't get them back home is because they

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lack identification.

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So we did a microchip bill that requires

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every dog, cat leaving a shelter to be

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microchipped.

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And that way, if they find their way

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into a shelter, you scan them or maybe

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not even in a shelter.

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A lot of times if they're just out

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in running the streets and animal control or

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Good Samaritan with a reader can scan them,

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find out where they live, contact the owner

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and get them back home.

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And then we did another bill that kicked

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puppy mills out of pet shops so that

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only rescue or shelter animals could be in

273
00:14:02,860 --> 00:14:03,400
pet shops.

274
00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:07,220
So, I mean, bottom line is it's overbreeding

275
00:14:07,220 --> 00:14:10,020
too many animals and not enough homes.

276
00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:12,940
But it's also a problem with the powers

277
00:14:12,940 --> 00:14:16,120
that be, not recognising that spay and neuter

278
00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:17,100
is the answer.

279
00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:21,880
Obviously you spay one animal and you prevent

280
00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:25,820
dozens, hundreds, even thousands of animals down the

281
00:14:25,820 --> 00:14:26,820
road from being born.

282
00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:31,040
Why is it that more isn't being done?

283
00:14:31,780 --> 00:14:34,320
We've got this pet lover's licence plate.

284
00:14:35,060 --> 00:14:37,360
I mean, is all that money being used

285
00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:39,800
to spay and neuter animals?

286
00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:43,820
There's something really wrong.

287
00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:47,000
And it seems that it's so obvious what

288
00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:50,760
the solution is, spay neuter, and yet animals

289
00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:52,720
are being put down all across the state

290
00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:53,680
of California, Judy.

291
00:14:54,340 --> 00:14:57,380
Well, it is all getting used for the

292
00:14:57,380 --> 00:14:58,160
spay and neuter.

293
00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:01,860
There's a little bit that's taken for administration

294
00:15:01,860 --> 00:15:05,060
fees, meaning overhead.

295
00:15:05,860 --> 00:15:09,440
The California Department of Food and Ag oversee

296
00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:09,920
it.

297
00:15:10,140 --> 00:15:13,300
So there's some money taken out to pay

298
00:15:13,970 --> 00:15:18,760
their staff for the time to gather the

299
00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:24,500
grants, distribute the funds, but overall it is

300
00:15:24,500 --> 00:15:25,160
getting used.

301
00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:27,940
It's just not enough is the problem.

302
00:15:28,140 --> 00:15:31,400
There are literally hundreds of thousands of animals

303
00:15:32,250 --> 00:15:33,780
that are getting put down.

304
00:15:33,980 --> 00:15:36,660
So we need an enormous amount of money

305
00:15:36,660 --> 00:15:40,400
to spay and neuter so that we can

306
00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:42,780
get all the animals spayed and neutered that

307
00:15:42,780 --> 00:15:45,920
their family can't afford it.

308
00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:49,920
And then most recently, we have a shortage

309
00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:54,160
of veterinarians in the state and registered veterinary

310
00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:54,900
technicians.

311
00:15:55,460 --> 00:15:59,740
So there's also a professional shortage that we

312
00:15:59,740 --> 00:16:01,140
are trying to address.

313
00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:03,960
So, I mean, this is a crisis.

314
00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:06,720
I think everybody's acknowledging that it's a crisis.

315
00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:10,820
You're doing incredible work, but you can't do

316
00:16:10,820 --> 00:16:11,660
it alone.

317
00:16:12,180 --> 00:16:14,800
Nick, what are your thoughts about what we

318
00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:16,600
need to do to fix this problem?

319
00:16:17,420 --> 00:16:19,340
I happen to live in Los Angeles.

320
00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:21,260
It's a huge problem in Los Angeles, but

321
00:16:21,260 --> 00:16:23,420
it's apparently up and down the state.

322
00:16:24,100 --> 00:16:24,720
Yeah, absolutely.

323
00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:27,680
You know, one of the hardest things to

324
00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:31,700
do in politics is to get that ounce

325
00:16:31,700 --> 00:16:35,360
of prevention so that you don't need a

326
00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:36,080
pound of cure.

327
00:16:36,540 --> 00:16:40,340
And so that's the problem with getting money

328
00:16:40,340 --> 00:16:43,580
up front to do more spay and neutering

329
00:16:43,580 --> 00:16:46,580
so that we don't have this pet overpopulation

330
00:16:46,580 --> 00:16:47,120
crisis.

331
00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:50,800
Thankfully, I do think that there is movement

332
00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:56,800
politically in that legislators and other folks, mayors,

333
00:16:57,280 --> 00:17:00,420
county supervisors, they are seeing the wall.

334
00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:04,440
And I feel like we are on the

335
00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:08,380
precipice of a breakthrough where maybe we can

336
00:17:08,380 --> 00:17:13,339
get that prevention so that we're not spending

337
00:17:13,339 --> 00:17:15,220
so much on the cure later.

338
00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:17,079
Absolutely.

339
00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:21,280
But let's talk about some brighter subjects when

340
00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:24,079
it comes to animals, specifically dogs.

341
00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:28,320
You passed the Dining With Dogs bill, which

342
00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:30,740
you go into depth here in your book

343
00:17:30,740 --> 00:17:31,920
because they need us.

344
00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:33,520
And I'm happy to say I was a

345
00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:34,860
part of this whole effort.

346
00:17:35,460 --> 00:17:39,600
And it really has revolutionised our relationship with

347
00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:40,960
dogs because we can take them places.

348
00:17:41,380 --> 00:17:43,240
Before you passed the Dining With Dogs bill,

349
00:17:43,360 --> 00:17:46,760
we couldn't go to outdoor patios, and it

350
00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:51,160
really penalised and persecuted dog owners.

351
00:17:51,340 --> 00:17:55,900
So Judy, tell us about the passage of

352
00:17:55,900 --> 00:17:59,040
the Dining With Dogs Act, which passed here

353
00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:00,320
in California and then it passed in New

354
00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:00,740
York too.

355
00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:03,720
Well, absolutely.

356
00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:07,060
I mean, at first, when I first got

357
00:18:07,060 --> 00:18:13,000
my dogs, I thought that it was fine

358
00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:16,560
to bring your dogs to an outdoor patio

359
00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:18,640
because I would see them there.

360
00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:22,980
And I went to a restaurant, they said,

361
00:18:23,140 --> 00:18:25,220
no, you can't have your dogs here.

362
00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:27,540
And I said, well, but we just did

363
00:18:27,540 --> 00:18:29,560
it at another one of your restaurants like

364
00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:30,380
two weeks ago.

365
00:18:30,860 --> 00:18:32,300
And they said, no, it's a law.

366
00:18:32,500 --> 00:18:34,260
And I said, well, that's a law that

367
00:18:34,260 --> 00:18:35,540
needs to be changed.

368
00:18:35,940 --> 00:18:39,200
So I went home and dug through the

369
00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:45,840
code on the California legislation website and found

370
00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:50,500
that sure enough, dogs were prohibited from being

371
00:18:50,500 --> 00:18:53,020
in a restaurant, whether it was inside or

372
00:18:53,020 --> 00:18:55,220
outside, unless they were a service dog.

373
00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:59,260
So we moved a piece of legislation in

374
00:18:59,260 --> 00:19:03,740
California that said, if a restaurant had an

375
00:19:03,740 --> 00:19:08,420
outdoor patio area, and if they elected to

376
00:19:09,220 --> 00:19:13,140
allow animals, dogs to come, they would need

377
00:19:13,140 --> 00:19:14,400
to be on leash.

378
00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:16,220
They need to stay on the ground.

379
00:19:16,820 --> 00:19:19,900
There was a whole list of things that

380
00:19:19,900 --> 00:19:23,660
the California Department of Public Health required.

381
00:19:24,980 --> 00:19:28,820
So we ran the legislation, we had the

382
00:19:28,820 --> 00:19:33,280
restaurant association with us, and it was a

383
00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:37,120
no-brainer, and really was, and got to

384
00:19:37,120 --> 00:19:39,060
the finish line and signed into law.

385
00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:42,560
So we made it so that now, if

386
00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:46,860
a restaurant has this opportunity that they have

387
00:19:46,860 --> 00:19:49,000
the outdoor area, that they allow it.

388
00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:52,060
And these two have gone to so many

389
00:19:52,060 --> 00:19:55,120
restaurants, I can't tell you, they are about

390
00:19:55,120 --> 00:19:58,860
town, but that was a really, really popular

391
00:19:58,860 --> 00:19:59,340
bill.

392
00:19:59,660 --> 00:20:02,100
And it was something that everybody could get

393
00:20:02,100 --> 00:20:02,700
behind.

394
00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:04,760
And it's too bad that some of the

395
00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:09,180
more controversial ones aren't quite as popular, but

396
00:20:09,180 --> 00:20:13,000
you do have bipartisan support for a lot

397
00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:13,540
of your bills.

398
00:20:13,540 --> 00:20:16,680
Isn't it true, Nick, that sometimes the only

399
00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:19,100
thing Republicans and Democrats can agree on is

400
00:20:19,100 --> 00:20:21,100
that they love their dogs?

401
00:20:22,100 --> 00:20:22,880
Absolutely.

402
00:20:23,460 --> 00:20:27,180
We work with Democrats and Republicans all the

403
00:20:27,180 --> 00:20:33,960
time, particularly on companion animal issues, Republicans will

404
00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:35,260
line up to support.

405
00:20:35,810 --> 00:20:38,760
We worked on a bill to get rid

406
00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:43,060
of dogs that were kept to give their

407
00:20:43,060 --> 00:20:45,420
blood in cages their entire life.

408
00:20:45,860 --> 00:20:48,940
We worked with a Republican legislator to end

409
00:20:48,940 --> 00:20:50,800
that practise or to phase it out in

410
00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:51,340
California.

411
00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:54,460
We are working with, last year we worked

412
00:20:54,460 --> 00:20:59,020
with a Republican legislator to help raise breeder

413
00:20:59,020 --> 00:21:02,480
standards and get shelter animals online.

414
00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:06,800
So these kinds of issues, they have to

415
00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:07,500
be bipartisan.

416
00:21:08,120 --> 00:21:11,760
In California, Democrats do have a super majority,

417
00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:14,560
but that does not mean that we disregard

418
00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:15,140
Republicans.

419
00:21:15,360 --> 00:21:17,060
We work across the aisle all the time.

420
00:21:18,100 --> 00:21:21,200
So let me ask you guys, I want

421
00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:24,020
to get back to the Cruelty-Free Cosmetics

422
00:21:24,020 --> 00:21:27,340
Act, because to me, you've passed so many

423
00:21:27,340 --> 00:21:32,020
bills, almost 30, and these are historic, ground

424
00:21:32,020 --> 00:21:34,620
-changing, groundbreaking bills.

425
00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:38,360
But in my eyes, the Cruelty-Free Cosmetics

426
00:21:38,360 --> 00:21:42,820
Act was just a monumental achievement because there

427
00:21:42,820 --> 00:21:46,640
were so many powerful forces against what you

428
00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:47,140
were doing.

429
00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:50,980
So many industries were up against you.

430
00:21:51,360 --> 00:21:55,020
However, according to this book, you got two

431
00:21:55,020 --> 00:21:59,380
very successful corporations to get behind you.

432
00:21:59,880 --> 00:22:03,600
One was John Paul Mitchell, which is the

433
00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:06,320
beauty products, completely cruelty-free, and the other

434
00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:07,360
is Lush.

435
00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:12,880
Why was getting those two companies so instrumental

436
00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:17,800
in defeating the opposition, which were also companies

437
00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:20,240
who didn't want to change, Judy?

438
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:26,040
Because they had already implemented a cruelty-free

439
00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:27,580
business model.

440
00:22:28,620 --> 00:22:33,440
John Paul DeJoy started his company with a

441
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:37,100
friend, I think it was 1975 or so,

442
00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:39,100
John Paul Mitchell products.

443
00:22:39,780 --> 00:22:45,720
And so he lived it, and for decades,

444
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:51,580
being a very successful company, dealing with the

445
00:22:51,580 --> 00:22:55,020
supply chain, making sure everything was cruelty-free,

446
00:22:55,540 --> 00:22:59,560
and the same with Lush, who had 300

447
00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:02,220
stores in North America, I believe the number

448
00:23:02,220 --> 00:23:03,280
was at the time.

449
00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:08,020
So when we first introduced the bill and

450
00:23:08,020 --> 00:23:11,460
we met with the opposition, the first thing

451
00:23:11,460 --> 00:23:14,300
they said was, okay, well, you're going to

452
00:23:14,300 --> 00:23:17,540
make everybody go out of business, and they're

453
00:23:17,540 --> 00:23:21,000
going to move all their operations offshore, and

454
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:23,360
all these American jobs are going to be

455
00:23:23,360 --> 00:23:26,120
lost, and there's no way to be able

456
00:23:26,120 --> 00:23:30,300
to prove in the supply chain that everything

457
00:23:30,300 --> 00:23:31,520
is cruelty-free.

458
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:36,160
And if we didn't have these enormous companies,

459
00:23:36,420 --> 00:23:40,100
successful companies on our side to be able

460
00:23:40,100 --> 00:23:43,380
to push back and say, it just isn't

461
00:23:43,380 --> 00:23:46,920
true, and here's why, and we've been doing

462
00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:49,320
it, we wouldn't have been able to get

463
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:49,720
it done.

464
00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:52,960
It was mission critical to have them.

465
00:23:53,780 --> 00:23:57,860
And here again is you at the state

466
00:23:57,860 --> 00:24:00,800
capitol in Sacramento with a bunch of people

467
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,440
fighting for this bill, and obviously the giant

468
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:07,280
wrap provided by PETA, which is one of

469
00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:09,860
the organisations you work with very closely, along

470
00:24:09,860 --> 00:24:13,620
with Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine, you as

471
00:24:13,620 --> 00:24:18,620
a team of organisations pushing this, you also

472
00:24:18,620 --> 00:24:21,420
had a lot of celebrities, and we've already

473
00:24:21,420 --> 00:24:23,380
established that you do work with a lot

474
00:24:23,380 --> 00:24:26,560
of celebrities, but what was the role that

475
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:31,960
celebrities played, Judy, in pushing this over the

476
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:33,960
finish line and other bills over the finish

477
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:34,220
line?

478
00:24:34,360 --> 00:24:35,860
How do you utilise the celebrities?

479
00:24:36,620 --> 00:24:44,140
Well, you know, the products manufacturers, they sign

480
00:24:44,140 --> 00:24:47,480
on celebrities for millions and millions of dollars

481
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:51,420
to sell their products, and it's just that

482
00:24:51,420 --> 00:24:53,340
they have a bigger audience.

483
00:24:53,540 --> 00:24:57,860
People listen to them, they respect them, and

484
00:24:57,860 --> 00:25:04,060
so if someone is saying, Bob Barker, Spay

485
00:25:04,060 --> 00:25:06,600
and Uter saves lives at the end of

486
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:10,980
all of his shows throughout his lifetime, you

487
00:25:10,980 --> 00:25:15,900
know, that really helps because, I mean, there's

488
00:25:15,900 --> 00:25:17,840
a very small amount of people that know

489
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:19,840
who I am, but boy, do they know

490
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:24,240
who Bob Barker is, or Pierce Brosnan, or

491
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:29,100
Jean-Paul DuJour walking Phoenix, so it just

492
00:25:29,100 --> 00:25:32,860
makes an enormous difference to have their voice

493
00:25:32,860 --> 00:25:38,160
and their audiences pay attention to these really

494
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:41,580
important issues that otherwise they may not hear

495
00:25:41,580 --> 00:25:41,940
about.

496
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:45,680
Well, I was there when you had celebrities

497
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:50,140
like Alicia Silverstone show up in Sacramento and

498
00:25:50,140 --> 00:25:53,460
then walk around and meet the legislators, and

499
00:25:53,460 --> 00:25:54,480
they go gaga.

500
00:25:54,860 --> 00:25:57,320
They are just like anybody else.

501
00:25:57,440 --> 00:25:59,180
When they see a celebrity, they get all

502
00:25:59,180 --> 00:26:01,880
excited, and it really lets you get your

503
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:03,440
foot in the door and get into those

504
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:06,560
offices because they're not going to turn Alicia

505
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:08,960
Silverstone down and say, no, you can't come

506
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:09,200
in.

507
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:11,500
That's exactly right.

508
00:26:11,580 --> 00:26:12,140
They do.

509
00:26:12,340 --> 00:26:13,500
They enjoy it.

510
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:15,420
They like meeting them.

511
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:17,120
They want to hear what they have to

512
00:26:17,120 --> 00:26:17,440
say.

513
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:21,960
You know, in Hollywood, everybody sees celebrities at

514
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:25,800
restaurants walking down the street, but it's not

515
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:27,700
exactly the same in Sacramento.

516
00:26:28,260 --> 00:26:31,600
So, you know, when the celebrities come, yes,

517
00:26:31,660 --> 00:26:36,080
they get attention, and definitely it's fun for

518
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:36,500
everyone.

519
00:26:37,380 --> 00:26:40,400
Let's talk about the time that you heard

520
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,300
that, I believe it was the California Department

521
00:26:43,300 --> 00:26:46,320
of Fish and Wildlife, had decided to basically

522
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,220
put out a hit on a mountain lion,

523
00:26:49,620 --> 00:26:53,060
and these mountain lions, many environmental organisations are

524
00:26:53,060 --> 00:26:55,900
desperate to save them, and yet here we

525
00:26:55,900 --> 00:26:59,080
have our government going out and basically saying

526
00:26:59,080 --> 00:26:59,920
we're going to kill them.

527
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:01,480
So what happened there?

528
00:27:01,540 --> 00:27:03,860
Because that was something where social compassion and

529
00:27:03,860 --> 00:27:07,340
legislation like moved into action very rapidly.

530
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:10,140
Yeah, this goes back to what I was

531
00:27:10,140 --> 00:27:12,380
saying at the beginning of the show where,

532
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:16,280
you know, yes, the group was founded to

533
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:19,280
run legislation and do things that are positive

534
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:23,520
impacts for animals, saving and protecting them.

535
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:26,800
But sometimes we hear about things that we

536
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:28,700
have to go to battle and fight.

537
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:33,500
And what was on the news in the

538
00:27:33,500 --> 00:27:36,860
evening on the radio was that there was

539
00:27:36,860 --> 00:27:39,600
a mountain lion that was beloved, P-42,

540
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:42,660
or P-45, I think.

541
00:27:42,780 --> 00:27:44,320
Yeah, P-45 was this one.

542
00:27:44,860 --> 00:27:51,600
And he had eaten or attacked some alpacas,

543
00:27:52,500 --> 00:27:55,460
which is terrible.

544
00:27:55,980 --> 00:27:58,440
I mean, we all love alpacas too, but

545
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:02,260
the bottom line was the people had brought

546
00:28:02,260 --> 00:28:07,200
these animals from outside the country, had them

547
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:11,180
in mountain lion territory, and they weren't protected.

548
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:15,820
So, you know, to kill a mountain lion

549
00:28:15,820 --> 00:28:20,000
that we're trying to save from going extinct

550
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:24,120
because it's doing what a mountain lion would

551
00:28:24,120 --> 00:28:26,000
do was absurd.

552
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,560
And so, yeah, we jumped into gear and

553
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,700
we raised a lot of noise and ruckus

554
00:28:32,700 --> 00:28:35,620
over it and were able to stop it

555
00:28:35,620 --> 00:28:40,320
and ended up helping the rancher to build

556
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:43,100
an enclosure for the alpacas.

557
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:45,880
And you had a news conference.

558
00:28:45,980 --> 00:28:48,740
And for those who are watching, we're looking

559
00:28:48,740 --> 00:28:50,880
at a snapshot from the news conference.

560
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:55,380
Well, we kind of took over.

561
00:28:55,740 --> 00:28:57,900
We had heard that there was going to

562
00:28:57,900 --> 00:29:02,920
be a meeting in Agora Hills about this

563
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:07,520
issue and safety that Fish and Game was

564
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:08,000
having.

565
00:29:08,860 --> 00:29:11,780
And we decided to try to get there

566
00:29:11,780 --> 00:29:15,800
and have a press conference prior to their

567
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:19,180
meeting to put pressure on them to not

568
00:29:19,180 --> 00:29:21,100
kill P-45.

569
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:24,880
So it was, some were calling it a

570
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:28,980
guerrilla press conference because we had sent out

571
00:29:28,980 --> 00:29:34,040
the press release and somehow Fish and Game

572
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:35,280
didn't get the memo.

573
00:29:36,180 --> 00:29:39,040
And what had happened is, gosh, I mean,

574
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:41,220
there was probably a half dozen to a

575
00:29:41,220 --> 00:29:43,760
dozen news trucks there.

576
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:46,700
Before I got there, I left Laguna Beach

577
00:29:46,700 --> 00:29:48,280
trying to get to Agora Hills.

578
00:29:48,380 --> 00:29:51,040
It was like a Friday and it took

579
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:53,000
me over three hours to get there.

580
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:55,780
And when I pulled in, the outside was

581
00:29:55,780 --> 00:29:58,620
just lined with news trucks with their satellite

582
00:29:58,620 --> 00:30:01,820
dishes up and everybody was like, get on

583
00:30:01,820 --> 00:30:03,620
the stage, get on the stage, hurry.

584
00:30:04,580 --> 00:30:08,080
And I ran to the stage and began

585
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:12,220
our little press conference, which turned out to

586
00:30:12,220 --> 00:30:14,840
be very big and was on every channel

587
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:18,140
and was on a major morning show.

588
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:21,580
But it all worked and we were able

589
00:30:21,580 --> 00:30:23,480
to save his life.

590
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:26,340
And it's all described in this book.

591
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:29,480
Now, if people donate to Social Compassion and

592
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:33,340
Legislation, $30 or more, they can get the

593
00:30:33,340 --> 00:30:34,960
book sent to them for free.

594
00:30:35,300 --> 00:30:37,280
And I have to tell you, these anecdotes

595
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:40,320
that we're discussing, they really play out in

596
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:41,540
very dramatic fashion.

597
00:30:41,540 --> 00:30:44,320
Like I said, this book, it's not, yes,

598
00:30:44,380 --> 00:30:46,500
it's about laws and legislation, but it really

599
00:30:46,500 --> 00:30:49,220
reads like a thriller because you have so

600
00:30:49,220 --> 00:30:52,720
many dramatic moments where people are trying to

601
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:53,900
shut you down.

602
00:30:54,100 --> 00:30:56,160
People are offering you a million dollars.

603
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:57,460
People are threatening you.

604
00:30:57,900 --> 00:31:00,800
There were some phrases that I learned that

605
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:02,680
I didn't know existed.

606
00:31:02,940 --> 00:31:04,400
So I'd like you to define them.

607
00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:06,420
And they come up in the book.

608
00:31:06,860 --> 00:31:10,400
What does it mean astro-turfing, Nick Sackett?

609
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:11,900
What is astro-turfing?

610
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:12,580
Oh, geez.

611
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:14,100
Astro-turfing.

612
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:17,120
Judy, this is a term that you've used

613
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:17,560
before.

614
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:19,200
So I'm going to toss that back over

615
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:19,640
to Judy.

616
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:27,520
Well, that was in reference to hiring people

617
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:32,260
to look like they are support or opposition

618
00:31:32,260 --> 00:31:34,220
to a bill.

619
00:31:35,020 --> 00:31:38,940
So what had happened, this was on the

620
00:31:38,940 --> 00:31:45,600
FER bill, that when there's people opposing a

621
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:48,420
bill, but they don't actually have people who

622
00:31:48,420 --> 00:31:49,260
are opposed to the bill.

623
00:31:49,380 --> 00:31:50,500
It's just the industry.

624
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:54,240
They will go and hire people to come

625
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:58,400
and act like they are opposition to the

626
00:31:58,400 --> 00:31:58,600
bill.

627
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:02,220
And that's what that was referring to in

628
00:32:02,220 --> 00:32:02,940
that chapter.

629
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:03,740
Yeah.

630
00:32:03,860 --> 00:32:07,720
And in this book, you describe how in

631
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:11,220
this legislative hearing, all these people come up

632
00:32:11,220 --> 00:32:13,780
against your bill and you tell one of

633
00:32:13,780 --> 00:32:16,640
the legislators, those people are hired and she

634
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:17,780
doesn't believe you.

635
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:19,880
And you have to go and do some

636
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:22,120
investigative work to prove it.

637
00:32:22,180 --> 00:32:22,920
Tell us about that.

638
00:32:23,700 --> 00:32:26,940
Well, yeah, no, I could tell they were

639
00:32:26,940 --> 00:32:27,960
hired right away.

640
00:32:28,060 --> 00:32:30,180
I mean, after being at the Capitol for

641
00:32:30,180 --> 00:32:34,760
17 years, you learn a lot and it

642
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:36,340
is by experience.

643
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:40,760
It's not something that you get taught in

644
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:41,300
a university.

645
00:32:42,540 --> 00:32:45,880
So when these folks came to the microphone

646
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:49,880
one after another, I said, they're hired.

647
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:54,460
And Julie, who was with me at the

648
00:32:54,460 --> 00:32:56,400
time said, how do you know that?

649
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:58,960
And I said, well, I just feel that

650
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:01,200
they are, I said, but I'm sure we

651
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:04,840
could probably find some proof.

652
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:09,860
And so Julie went and start investigating.

653
00:33:10,220 --> 00:33:12,500
She did the digging and sure enough found

654
00:33:12,500 --> 00:33:17,960
Facebook pages and others that were recruiting people

655
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:20,680
to be a part of this opposition.

656
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:23,640
And then when you went to the website

657
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:26,980
that they were promoting, they were actually paying,

658
00:33:27,100 --> 00:33:29,560
they were recruiting students and paying them a

659
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:33,880
hundred dollars each to come and testify against

660
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:34,720
this bill.

661
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:37,520
So that's AstroTurfing.

662
00:33:37,660 --> 00:33:39,540
I've seen that quite a few times when

663
00:33:39,540 --> 00:33:43,820
I've gone to animal organisations, having a gala,

664
00:33:44,220 --> 00:33:46,100
particularly PETA and you see these people with

665
00:33:46,100 --> 00:33:48,660
signs, PETA kills or whatever.

666
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:50,880
And I asked them a question, well, tell

667
00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:51,980
me what's your argument?

668
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:54,720
No clue because they're being paid.

669
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:57,640
You can tell that they're being paid.

670
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:01,460
So beware when you see people who are

671
00:34:01,460 --> 00:34:03,640
going up against an organisation like PETA, which

672
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:07,300
you work with very closely and they're making

673
00:34:07,300 --> 00:34:09,020
all sorts of accusations and you try to

674
00:34:09,020 --> 00:34:09,540
get details.

675
00:34:09,620 --> 00:34:11,239
They have no clue because they're actually being

676
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:12,239
paid by the hour.

677
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:14,520
I even saw one go on break because

678
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:15,719
they had to go on a lunch break,

679
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:18,620
which is not what activists do.

680
00:34:19,100 --> 00:34:20,500
They don't say, okay, I'm going to drop

681
00:34:20,500 --> 00:34:22,159
my sign and go on my lunch break

682
00:34:22,159 --> 00:34:22,900
and come back.

683
00:34:22,900 --> 00:34:28,540
So some of the other phrases that I

684
00:34:28,540 --> 00:34:30,139
learned reading your book, you got to read

685
00:34:30,139 --> 00:34:30,639
this, people.

686
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:34,040
It really is so interesting.

687
00:34:34,139 --> 00:34:36,800
And I learned so much NASCAR letters.

688
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:38,380
What are NASCAR letters?

689
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:41,300
I'll let Nick take this one because he's

690
00:34:41,300 --> 00:34:42,860
always having to do them.

691
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:48,159
A NASCAR letter, for those who don't know

692
00:34:48,159 --> 00:34:52,380
NASCAR, a lot of the drivers that drive

693
00:34:52,380 --> 00:34:54,239
these cars, it's race car driving.

694
00:34:54,639 --> 00:34:57,960
On their uniform, they will have patches of

695
00:34:57,960 --> 00:34:59,000
all of their sponsors.

696
00:34:59,780 --> 00:35:03,660
And so they just have McDonald's and mobile

697
00:35:03,660 --> 00:35:05,280
and they're covered.

698
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:09,000
And so sometimes when we need to turn

699
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:12,180
in a support letter or an opposition letter

700
00:35:12,180 --> 00:35:14,760
against a bill or for a bill, and

701
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:16,740
we want to get a lot of organisations

702
00:35:16,740 --> 00:35:20,220
to sign on to that letter, we have

703
00:35:20,220 --> 00:35:22,760
to get their logos and their signatures and

704
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:24,140
we slap them onto a letter.

705
00:35:24,660 --> 00:35:27,000
And the first page, sometimes into the second

706
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:28,580
page will just be their logos.

707
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:31,260
So we call that a NASCAR letter.

708
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:34,600
And it's just a big group of organisations

709
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:36,580
that are opposing or supporting a bill.

710
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:40,320
While I have you, what's relational lobbying?

711
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:45,540
Relational lobbying is really what it sounds like.

712
00:35:45,720 --> 00:35:49,020
You have a relationship with a legislator and

713
00:35:49,020 --> 00:35:52,300
so you're going to have access to that

714
00:35:52,300 --> 00:35:57,360
legislator based on your history, based on how

715
00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:00,700
they know you, not necessarily based on the

716
00:36:00,700 --> 00:36:02,940
policy that's being discussed at hand.

717
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:06,520
So having those relationships is key because if

718
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:07,940
they don't know who you are and you

719
00:36:07,940 --> 00:36:09,800
really need to talk to them about a

720
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:13,600
particular bill, you're relying on that relationship.

721
00:36:13,980 --> 00:36:15,920
And what about lobbying up?

722
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:17,940
That's another phrase that comes up.

723
00:36:17,940 --> 00:36:21,640
Lobbying up is hiring as many lobbyists as

724
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:22,640
you possibly can.

725
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:26,060
And I think what that's referring to in

726
00:36:26,060 --> 00:36:28,840
the book is during the cosmetic fight, the

727
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:33,040
opposition hired tonnes of lobbyists.

728
00:36:33,300 --> 00:36:35,860
We were in a meeting, an initial meeting

729
00:36:35,860 --> 00:36:39,060
about the bill, and the opposition walked in

730
00:36:39,060 --> 00:36:42,440
with 10, 12 lobbyists.

731
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:46,060
And there we were with just me, Judy,

732
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:48,400
and our contract lobbyists and a couple of

733
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:50,560
scientists, but no other lobbyists.

734
00:36:51,420 --> 00:36:55,100
And so lobbying up is getting that lobby

735
00:36:55,100 --> 00:36:59,580
firepower so that as soon as the opposition

736
00:36:59,580 --> 00:37:02,380
sends their lobbyists in, well, we can send

737
00:37:02,380 --> 00:37:04,740
our lobbyists in and counter their arguments.

738
00:37:05,260 --> 00:37:07,560
And you have had a lot of success,

739
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:13,320
Judy, because some very, very important people who

740
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:15,780
are people of means have seen what you're

741
00:37:15,780 --> 00:37:16,060
doing.

742
00:37:16,240 --> 00:37:18,160
They love animals and they've donated.

743
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:20,540
Let's talk a little bit about Dr. Gary

744
00:37:20,540 --> 00:37:23,540
Michelson who has had such a profound impact

745
00:37:23,540 --> 00:37:24,420
on your efforts.

746
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:27,180
Well, that's right.

747
00:37:28,180 --> 00:37:33,820
When I first started back in 2007, I

748
00:37:33,820 --> 00:37:39,320
was doing it on my own dollar, but

749
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:43,260
found out very quickly, which I discuss in

750
00:37:43,260 --> 00:37:46,800
depth in the book, of how I needed

751
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:48,240
to get organised.

752
00:37:49,220 --> 00:37:55,840
And organised means having representation, having lobbyists, having

753
00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:59,640
a big grassroots support network.

754
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:03,740
And even like Nick was saying, getting to

755
00:38:03,740 --> 00:38:07,440
know legislators that you're not just a one

756
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:10,100
-hit wonder, that you're going to be there

757
00:38:10,100 --> 00:38:12,060
year after year after year.

758
00:38:12,720 --> 00:38:15,940
And so Dr. Michelson was one of the

759
00:38:15,940 --> 00:38:19,700
first people I met along with another man

760
00:38:19,700 --> 00:38:20,940
named Stephen Bernheim.

761
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:26,980
And we did a meeting in Los Angeles

762
00:38:26,980 --> 00:38:30,640
and everyone invited everyone to come hear what

763
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:31,380
I was doing.

764
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,580
I was going to form my nonprofit and

765
00:38:34,580 --> 00:38:37,420
that we needed to raise funds to start

766
00:38:37,420 --> 00:38:40,480
hiring lobbyists and become a real group.

767
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:43,840
And so that's where it all started.

768
00:38:44,220 --> 00:38:47,440
And they have been supporting my group since

769
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:51,620
then, along with a lot of others that

770
00:38:51,620 --> 00:38:56,380
whether it's a $5 donation every month, $1

771
00:38:56,380 --> 00:38:59,520
,000 here, 5,000, 10,000.

772
00:38:59,880 --> 00:39:03,440
I mean, it's taken a lot to be

773
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:07,680
able to afford running these bills.

774
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:12,660
And that's why it wasn't getting done before.

775
00:39:13,020 --> 00:39:17,180
And I also talk about my frustration with

776
00:39:17,180 --> 00:39:21,520
the big groups who sit on outside of

777
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:25,620
PETA and PCRM, Centre for Biological Diversity, these

778
00:39:25,620 --> 00:39:26,700
groups we work with.

779
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:31,180
But there's many groups that make lots, hundreds

780
00:39:31,180 --> 00:39:34,280
of millions of dollars that they're just literally

781
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:36,740
have in the bank and that they spend

782
00:39:36,740 --> 00:39:41,120
more money on operations and fundraising than anything

783
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:41,500
else.

784
00:39:41,820 --> 00:39:46,880
So my little group, we are doing really

785
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:52,700
big things and relying on folks like Dr.

786
00:39:52,780 --> 00:39:56,720
Michelson, Stephen, and all the small donors, everybody

787
00:39:56,720 --> 00:39:57,820
to keep us going.

788
00:39:58,860 --> 00:40:01,260
Now, let's talk a little bit about why

789
00:40:01,260 --> 00:40:04,640
you are perfectly positioned to influence not just

790
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:06,020
California and the world.

791
00:40:06,740 --> 00:40:08,560
As we've mentioned, California is the fifth largest

792
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:11,880
economy in the world, but it's also a

793
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:12,500
trend leader.

794
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:14,940
And you know what they say, what happens

795
00:40:14,940 --> 00:40:16,700
in Hollywood spreads to the rest of the

796
00:40:16,700 --> 00:40:17,680
nation and the world.

797
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:20,160
The Dining with Dogs Act was a perfect

798
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:20,700
example.

799
00:40:20,700 --> 00:40:22,980
You go into it in the book, how

800
00:40:22,980 --> 00:40:24,860
it passed here in California.

801
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:27,380
And then I happened to be in New

802
00:40:27,380 --> 00:40:28,840
York at the time and I was like,

803
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:32,240
dang, I had three Chihuahua mixes and I

804
00:40:32,240 --> 00:40:33,680
wanted to go to restaurants.

805
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:37,380
And you brought your act to New York

806
00:40:37,380 --> 00:40:38,960
and we got it passed.

807
00:40:39,300 --> 00:40:41,600
Tell us about how you're able to do

808
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:41,900
that.

809
00:40:41,900 --> 00:40:46,380
It was not a small task, and I

810
00:40:46,380 --> 00:40:49,180
have you to thank to be a huge

811
00:40:49,180 --> 00:40:50,000
part of that.

812
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:55,400
So I had my lobbyist in California gave

813
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:59,060
me some recommendations of some firms in New

814
00:40:59,060 --> 00:40:59,440
York.

815
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:03,360
So I flew to New York, I interviewed

816
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:07,540
the lobbyist, we went and spoke with a

817
00:41:07,540 --> 00:41:14,420
legislator, assembly member Linda Rosenthal from Manhattan, who

818
00:41:14,420 --> 00:41:18,840
happens to be a huge animal lover and

819
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:23,700
would be strong enough to carry this legislation.

820
00:41:24,540 --> 00:41:28,320
Because there's a lot of legislators, they don't

821
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:30,780
want to stick their neck out for animals.

822
00:41:31,020 --> 00:41:32,200
They just don't.

823
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:35,820
But she had a reputation that she absolutely

824
00:41:35,820 --> 00:41:36,300
would.

825
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:40,340
And so met with the assembly member, met

826
00:41:40,340 --> 00:41:44,760
with lobbyist, raised money, hired them.

827
00:41:45,140 --> 00:41:49,760
And then actually without your help, Jane, we

828
00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:52,920
wouldn't have gotten it done with the grassroots

829
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:55,420
support in New York.

830
00:41:55,580 --> 00:42:00,340
And Nick also at the time was not

831
00:42:00,340 --> 00:42:02,600
working with us in California.

832
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:05,620
He was in New York and just donating

833
00:42:05,620 --> 00:42:07,880
his time pro bono to us at that

834
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:08,240
point.

835
00:42:08,380 --> 00:42:10,920
And he was able to go to some

836
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:12,860
of those hearings and meetings too.

837
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:14,420
So we got it done.

838
00:42:14,900 --> 00:42:17,360
And that was our first out of state

839
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:17,820
effort.

840
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:20,420
Let's talk a little bit about the most

841
00:42:20,420 --> 00:42:22,500
important issue that affects the most animals, and

842
00:42:22,500 --> 00:42:23,700
that's our food system.

843
00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:27,840
And it's very sad because the number of

844
00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:29,820
animals killed for food is not going down,

845
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:30,480
unfortunately.

846
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:37,520
I mean, literally, globally, it's 90 billion animals

847
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:38,220
every year.

848
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:40,400
I can't even say it because it's so

849
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:41,200
mind boggling.

850
00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:43,900
And you can see the majority are chickens.

851
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:46,900
And then, of course, the environmental impact.

852
00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:48,460
Here's a New York Times article.

853
00:42:48,660 --> 00:42:51,740
It says vegans are responsible for 75%

854
00:42:51,740 --> 00:42:53,820
less in greenhouse gases than meat eaters.

855
00:42:54,720 --> 00:42:58,040
Obviously, if people transition to a plant-based

856
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:01,040
lifestyle, they're going to have a much lower

857
00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:01,820
carbon footprint.

858
00:43:02,240 --> 00:43:03,960
Now, you've been able to do some things

859
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:07,040
here in California to encourage a plant-based

860
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:10,720
lifestyle in hospitals, prisons, and schools.

861
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:11,720
Tell us about that.

862
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:16,720
Well, I will tell you personally, I went

863
00:43:16,720 --> 00:43:19,580
vegan over 30 years ago now.

864
00:43:20,180 --> 00:43:25,440
And I know that we can't do enough

865
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:29,440
to promote it and to help people maintain

866
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:34,360
the diet they choose and to help get

867
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:36,360
supported in school.

868
00:43:36,580 --> 00:43:41,180
So the first bill that we did mandated

869
00:43:41,180 --> 00:43:48,960
plant-based meal options in hospitals and other

870
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:51,780
kind of medical facilities and prisons.

871
00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:55,580
We originally had schools in it, but that

872
00:43:55,580 --> 00:43:58,040
got taken out because we knew that that

873
00:43:58,040 --> 00:43:59,580
was going to be too big of a

874
00:43:59,580 --> 00:44:01,840
fight and that there would need to be

875
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:05,040
some funding to go along with that.

876
00:44:05,180 --> 00:44:09,080
So then we addressed schools later in a

877
00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:12,880
funding bill to give money towards plant-based

878
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:17,300
food and milk in schools.

879
00:44:17,500 --> 00:44:19,100
So we did get that done.

880
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:24,040
It was a huge accomplishment, but obviously there's

881
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:25,280
always more to do.

882
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:26,700
And yeah.

883
00:44:26,860 --> 00:44:26,960
Okay.

884
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:31,680
I think I need a clarification because what

885
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:33,460
happened exactly with the schools?

886
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:37,200
Because we understand that to this day, there

887
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:39,440
are students who have to get a doctor's

888
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:42,480
note and there's been even lawsuits.

889
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:47,060
So just elaborate on that a little bit.

890
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:48,480
Yeah.

891
00:44:48,740 --> 00:44:50,500
Well, and I can pass it to Nick

892
00:44:50,500 --> 00:44:53,700
because he worked intimately on it as well.

893
00:44:53,700 --> 00:44:55,100
So go ahead, take it Nick.

894
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:55,900
Sure.

895
00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:58,580
At first, we tried to pass a bill

896
00:44:58,580 --> 00:45:00,920
to set up a permanent grant programme.

897
00:45:01,780 --> 00:45:05,660
But just to give you a quick reason,

898
00:45:05,940 --> 00:45:10,400
the Cattlemen's Association and the other animal ag

899
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:12,920
industries came in and said they didn't want

900
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:16,040
vegan propaganda in our schools, which made us

901
00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:18,380
all kind of snicker because they've been in

902
00:45:18,380 --> 00:45:21,380
our schools promoting got milk for decades.

903
00:45:22,050 --> 00:45:25,640
In any case, two years ago, we were

904
00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:27,500
able to get a hundred million dollars in

905
00:45:27,500 --> 00:45:31,020
the California budget to help schools upgrade their

906
00:45:31,020 --> 00:45:34,420
kitchens to serve plant-based meals, including, and

907
00:45:34,420 --> 00:45:34,840
milks.

908
00:45:37,100 --> 00:45:41,220
So, you know, that has, and we partnered

909
00:45:41,220 --> 00:45:43,600
with Friends of the Earth on that effort,

910
00:45:43,780 --> 00:45:46,960
who gets into schools and really helps them

911
00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:49,300
develop their plant-based programmes.

912
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:52,400
And all of that money, hundred million dollars

913
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:54,460
worth money went to those kinds of upgrades

914
00:45:54,460 --> 00:45:56,780
and training staff so that they can cook

915
00:45:56,780 --> 00:45:57,900
plant-based meals.

916
00:45:58,120 --> 00:46:00,540
Because if you have kitchen staff that, you

917
00:46:00,540 --> 00:46:02,740
know, doesn't know what to do, and they

918
00:46:02,740 --> 00:46:05,100
just usually are used to taking a hamburger

919
00:46:05,100 --> 00:46:08,100
and slapping it together, well, then that's what

920
00:46:08,100 --> 00:46:09,100
they're going to serve the kids.

921
00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:10,900
But once they have that knowledge and that

922
00:46:10,900 --> 00:46:13,920
training, then they can broaden the plant-based

923
00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:14,200
meals.

924
00:46:14,300 --> 00:46:16,080
And that's exactly what the funding was for.

925
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:18,560
Have you had a chance to see how

926
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:19,260
it's going?

927
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:24,160
Has there been any audit or examination of

928
00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:25,840
how schools are implementing?

929
00:46:25,980 --> 00:46:29,000
Because implementation is one of the key aspects

930
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:30,280
of legislation.

931
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:33,180
I mean, I will talk to Prop 2

932
00:46:33,180 --> 00:46:35,740
and Prop 12 passed by the voters of

933
00:46:35,740 --> 00:46:39,440
California saying they want certain standards for animals

934
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:43,080
that are being bred for food in the

935
00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:43,540
state.

936
00:46:44,060 --> 00:46:45,880
And to my knowledge, there's never been a

937
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:51,380
prosecution based on either of those propositions, even

938
00:46:51,380 --> 00:46:55,180
though there've been many examples of undercover investigations

939
00:46:55,180 --> 00:46:57,760
that show that terrible things are happening and

940
00:46:57,760 --> 00:47:02,320
prosecutors, district attorneys in various counties being pleaded

941
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:05,900
with, please enforce this law that the California

942
00:47:05,900 --> 00:47:07,580
voters passed.

943
00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:09,860
And they just refuse to do it because

944
00:47:09,860 --> 00:47:12,640
they're beholden somehow to industry.

945
00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:15,040
Yeah, absolutely.

946
00:47:15,500 --> 00:47:16,960
It's a big problem.

947
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:20,340
Enforcement of animal cruelty laws is a big

948
00:47:20,340 --> 00:47:22,960
problem across California and across the nation.

949
00:47:23,780 --> 00:47:25,880
You know, I'll give you an example.

950
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:28,600
Puppy mills, they are supposed to be regulated

951
00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:31,600
by the USDA.

952
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:36,540
And most puppy millers are breaking all the

953
00:47:36,540 --> 00:47:40,740
Animal Welfare Act provisions, but they only get

954
00:47:40,740 --> 00:47:42,660
a slap on the wrist if that.

955
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:45,980
So what you're saying is a huge problem.

956
00:47:46,340 --> 00:47:48,420
We need more whistleblowers.

957
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:52,300
We need people from within these corporations to

958
00:47:52,300 --> 00:47:59,340
speak out because local DAs and city attorneys,

959
00:47:59,660 --> 00:48:02,040
they just don't want to take the word

960
00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:03,840
of activists who are bringing them evidence.

961
00:48:03,900 --> 00:48:05,460
Well, let me just say this.

962
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:06,940
It's not the word.

963
00:48:08,420 --> 00:48:13,500
There's many organisations that have gone videotaping what's

964
00:48:13,500 --> 00:48:16,720
happening in factory farms in California and showing

965
00:48:16,720 --> 00:48:21,680
the horrors and presented with concrete evidence on

966
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:22,940
videotape of what's happening.

967
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:25,940
And the district attorneys refuse to prosecute.

968
00:48:26,020 --> 00:48:27,340
It's not taking anybody's word.

969
00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:28,180
Right, right.

970
00:48:28,340 --> 00:48:32,820
No, it's special interest having a death grip

971
00:48:32,820 --> 00:48:39,760
on our local jurisdictions, on legislators.

972
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:42,520
I mean, that's another thing that the book

973
00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:46,400
is about, is just how hard, even though

974
00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:51,340
you've got the proof, to move people because

975
00:48:51,340 --> 00:48:53,720
of the special interest grip.

976
00:48:53,940 --> 00:48:55,500
And that's a huge piece of it.

977
00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:59,280
We have done auditing at the state level.

978
00:48:59,780 --> 00:49:06,320
We just got some audit results about forest

979
00:49:06,320 --> 00:49:10,480
risk commodities being purchased by the state of

980
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:13,160
California that had to do with our efforts

981
00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:15,920
with the Deforestation Free Procurement Act.

982
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:18,780
We did an audit on the pet lovers

983
00:49:18,780 --> 00:49:22,720
licence plate to make sure that every dollar

984
00:49:22,720 --> 00:49:25,100
was going to where it needed to go

985
00:49:25,100 --> 00:49:26,620
and was being spent properly.

986
00:49:26,940 --> 00:49:30,340
So we have done audits at the state,

987
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:33,460
which has been mission critical, and they do

988
00:49:33,460 --> 00:49:34,980
an incredible job.

989
00:49:35,140 --> 00:49:39,480
But what you're talking about, about auditing prisons

990
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:43,940
and schools, about plant-based meals and hospitals,

991
00:49:44,860 --> 00:49:49,220
it takes a lot of labour to call

992
00:49:49,220 --> 00:49:50,440
and spot check.

993
00:49:50,540 --> 00:49:54,140
And this is something that my group has

994
00:49:54,140 --> 00:49:58,420
been discussing and looking into how we can

995
00:49:58,420 --> 00:50:02,020
start doing that and doing some audits ourselves

996
00:50:02,020 --> 00:50:06,540
that are more informal, but reaching out to

997
00:50:06,540 --> 00:50:10,060
these facilities and asking for the menus.

998
00:50:10,860 --> 00:50:13,340
So that's something that we are looking at,

999
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:16,460
Jane, and something we're very interested in and

1000
00:50:16,460 --> 00:50:19,460
wanting to work with PETA and PCRM and

1001
00:50:19,460 --> 00:50:21,920
the other groups that helped us over the

1002
00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:23,960
years to get these things passed and now

1003
00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:27,700
going back and making sure that they're getting

1004
00:50:27,700 --> 00:50:28,200
enforced.

1005
00:50:28,660 --> 00:50:31,180
And it's a process, not an event.

1006
00:50:31,320 --> 00:50:33,700
The first step is to pass the law,

1007
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:34,720
which you have done.

1008
00:50:35,220 --> 00:50:37,600
You can't be asked to do everything under

1009
00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:39,740
the sun, although I know you try.

1010
00:50:40,300 --> 00:50:42,780
But when it comes to hospitals, I've personally

1011
00:50:42,780 --> 00:50:45,560
had a number of people say that they

1012
00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:48,600
cited that law and said, you have to

1013
00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:50,560
give me, and what they were given was

1014
00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:51,520
not substantial.

1015
00:50:51,980 --> 00:50:53,520
In other words, there's resistance.

1016
00:50:53,900 --> 00:50:57,520
And the people in these hospitals feel like,

1017
00:50:57,940 --> 00:51:00,440
I either don't want to do it or

1018
00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:01,660
they challenged the law.

1019
00:51:01,720 --> 00:51:04,420
Just the other day, I was at a

1020
00:51:04,420 --> 00:51:08,380
place and they said, your dog is not

1021
00:51:08,380 --> 00:51:09,240
allowed outside.

1022
00:51:09,520 --> 00:51:10,800
And I said, yes, it is.

1023
00:51:11,060 --> 00:51:12,840
This is a restaurant and there's something called

1024
00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:14,100
the Dining with Dogs Act.

1025
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:16,900
And he asked me for the bill and

1026
00:51:16,900 --> 00:51:17,860
I called Nick.

1027
00:51:18,020 --> 00:51:19,700
And I said, Nick, will you send me

1028
00:51:19,700 --> 00:51:20,540
that legislation?

1029
00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:23,140
Now, the funny part is by the time

1030
00:51:23,140 --> 00:51:24,960
I went back to the restaurant, that person

1031
00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:25,920
had been let go.

1032
00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:28,760
Not the friendliest person on the planet, let's

1033
00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:29,520
put it that way.

1034
00:51:29,980 --> 00:51:32,180
But I had to actually, I was planning

1035
00:51:32,180 --> 00:51:34,680
on showing this person the law and saying,

1036
00:51:34,860 --> 00:51:36,900
yes, we're allowed as long as the owner

1037
00:51:36,900 --> 00:51:38,560
of the restaurant, and you're not the owner,

1038
00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:40,600
as long as the owner allows, and they

1039
00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:43,360
did, we're entitled to have our dogs on

1040
00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:43,820
this patio.

1041
00:51:44,220 --> 00:51:46,420
So it's really passing the law is the

1042
00:51:46,420 --> 00:51:48,340
first thing, but then it's enforcement.

1043
00:51:48,820 --> 00:51:51,600
And I'd really like to see more enforcement

1044
00:51:51,600 --> 00:51:55,420
with the hospitals, because obviously people are going

1045
00:51:55,420 --> 00:51:58,220
in there because they're suffering from whatever.

1046
00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:01,620
Cancer, heart disease, a lot of this has

1047
00:52:01,620 --> 00:52:02,580
been linked to dairy.

1048
00:52:02,980 --> 00:52:06,340
Processed meat is officially cancer causing, according to

1049
00:52:06,340 --> 00:52:07,680
the World Health Organisation.

1050
00:52:08,220 --> 00:52:10,960
So the idea that they're flouting this law

1051
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:13,460
that you struggled so hard to pass is

1052
00:52:13,460 --> 00:52:14,620
outrageous, Judy.

1053
00:52:15,080 --> 00:52:15,680
Yes.

1054
00:52:15,700 --> 00:52:19,500
And we have helped people in hospitals before

1055
00:52:19,500 --> 00:52:21,760
that were like, hey, they're not giving me

1056
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:23,780
a plant-based meal, and we sent them

1057
00:52:23,780 --> 00:52:25,900
the legislation as well.

1058
00:52:26,580 --> 00:52:29,600
And just in talking about this, I think

1059
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:32,160
that we probably need to have a special

1060
00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:38,080
tab on our website that says, need help

1061
00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:43,860
with enforcement, and maybe giving recommendations on A,

1062
00:52:44,020 --> 00:52:47,100
just linking to the laws so people can

1063
00:52:47,100 --> 00:52:51,220
have it quickly to show people, or knowing

1064
00:52:51,220 --> 00:52:55,360
who to call within the local jurisdiction or

1065
00:52:55,360 --> 00:52:58,280
whether it's at the state to report that

1066
00:52:58,280 --> 00:52:59,700
they're not following the law.

1067
00:53:00,180 --> 00:53:03,320
So that is something we should look into,

1068
00:53:03,960 --> 00:53:07,120
and I'm glad it came up.

1069
00:53:07,640 --> 00:53:09,200
Well, a lot of things come up in

1070
00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:10,080
these conversations.

1071
00:53:11,160 --> 00:53:13,060
We often get to that point where we're

1072
00:53:13,060 --> 00:53:15,200
brainstorming on our podcasts.

1073
00:53:15,620 --> 00:53:16,820
We've got to wrap.

1074
00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:19,840
So please give us your final thoughts.

1075
00:53:20,180 --> 00:53:21,040
What's next?

1076
00:53:21,680 --> 00:53:29,180
Well, we've been trying to eliminate teachers using

1077
00:53:29,180 --> 00:53:32,760
live animal dissection in schools.

1078
00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:37,360
And it is not mandatory.

1079
00:53:37,840 --> 00:53:39,900
There's nothing in law that says that they

1080
00:53:39,900 --> 00:53:40,880
shall do it.

1081
00:53:40,980 --> 00:53:42,560
They elect to do it.

1082
00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:46,500
So we've had a couple of attempts at

1083
00:53:46,500 --> 00:53:49,220
trying to get rid of it, and we're

1084
00:53:49,220 --> 00:53:50,840
going to go back at it this year.

1085
00:53:51,420 --> 00:53:54,460
So that's one thing that we're working on.

1086
00:53:54,740 --> 00:53:59,580
The other action that we're looking into is

1087
00:53:59,580 --> 00:54:03,900
to bring out of state veterinarians in state

1088
00:54:03,900 --> 00:54:07,520
to be able to do high volume spay

1089
00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:08,100
and neuter.

1090
00:54:08,520 --> 00:54:13,460
So to get them a licence, to be

1091
00:54:13,460 --> 00:54:17,060
licenced in California as quickly as possible so

1092
00:54:17,060 --> 00:54:19,040
that they could do this, whether it's a

1093
00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:22,780
permanent full licence or a temporary licence.

1094
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:25,800
We're looking into the logistics of all that

1095
00:54:25,800 --> 00:54:26,680
right now.

1096
00:54:27,460 --> 00:54:30,940
So we're working on that and the never

1097
00:54:30,940 --> 00:54:34,400
ending pet overpopulation crisis, unfortunately.

1098
00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:37,220
Well, I just want to say the two

1099
00:54:37,220 --> 00:54:38,340
of you are my heroes.

1100
00:54:38,680 --> 00:54:41,360
The amount of work that you have done

1101
00:54:41,360 --> 00:54:42,640
is mind boggling.

1102
00:54:42,940 --> 00:54:45,620
This book is a must read.

1103
00:54:45,720 --> 00:54:46,760
Oh, thank you.

1104
00:54:46,840 --> 00:54:51,420
Because if you donate to socialcompassionandlegislation.org, you

1105
00:54:51,420 --> 00:54:53,420
can get it sent to you.

1106
00:54:53,460 --> 00:54:55,260
Just donate $30 or more.

1107
00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:57,620
Your work is extraordinary.

1108
00:54:58,380 --> 00:55:01,120
And of course, I also would love everybody

1109
00:55:01,120 --> 00:55:02,900
to download Unchained TV.

1110
00:55:03,220 --> 00:55:06,560
We are the world's only streaming television network,

1111
00:55:06,720 --> 00:55:09,980
nonprofit, free for animals and the plant based

1112
00:55:09,980 --> 00:55:10,440
lifestyle.

1113
00:55:10,660 --> 00:55:12,260
So it's a vegan Netflix.

1114
00:55:12,580 --> 00:55:14,460
Okay, that's the craziest thing I've ever heard.

1115
00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:15,700
I love Unchained TV.

1116
00:55:15,960 --> 00:55:16,560
Unchained.

1117
00:55:16,840 --> 00:55:17,720
Unchained TV.

1118
00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:18,680
Your life will change.

1119
00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:19,860
It's just that easy.

1120
00:55:20,220 --> 00:55:22,700
Unchained TV has all sorts of content for

1121
00:55:22,700 --> 00:55:23,160
everybody.

1122
00:55:23,560 --> 00:55:25,620
Unchained TV changed my life.

1123
00:55:25,840 --> 00:55:28,740
Unchained TV is crushing it.

1124
00:55:28,840 --> 00:55:30,400
I love Unchained TV.

1125
00:55:30,680 --> 00:55:32,440
Unchained TV is my go to.

1126
00:55:32,720 --> 00:55:33,520
Unchained TV.

1127
00:55:33,980 --> 00:55:34,520
Who knew?

1128
00:55:35,240 --> 00:55:36,320
Unchained TV.

1129
00:55:36,660 --> 00:55:36,840
Yes.