UnchainedTV: Peru’s Plant-Based Legal Battle

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Unchained TV free streaming network, Jane Velez Mitchell.

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You're about to hear a secret solution to

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the problems that plague our world.

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If you want to revolutionise your health, get

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truly joyful and jump to the next phase

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of human evolution, all it takes is one

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simple choice.

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Now here's your host, Jane Velez Mitchell.

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And we've got breaking news for you.

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A lawsuit in Peru filed by two students

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demanding vegan options.

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And this could be a precedent that could

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reverberate across Latin America.

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You know, how hard is it for schools

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to provide vegan options?

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Here are the two students who have taken

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a stand.

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One, the young woman on the left is

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a law student.

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The other is an anthropology student.

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They said they were asking for five months,

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five months begging for substantial vegan options at

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their school and were met with just silence

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or dismissal.

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So finally they hired an attorney and they

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went to court.

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And essentially they are making some demands.

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They're saying, hey, the dining hall must provide

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plant-based alternatives that are approved by a

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nutrition specialist in vegan nutrition.

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The students at this university must establish a

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registry of vegan students and veganism must be

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recognised as an ethical principle protected by the

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fundamental right to freedom of conscience.

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So we're very excited.

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We think that some of these students may

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actually be joining us today, but here we

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are with some of the principals and these

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are folks joining from around the world.

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Now I wanna start with Yennifer.

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Yennifer, you are a translator who has been

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in court.

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You have followed this from the beginning.

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Why don't you give us the basic story

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of what happened?

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There are students at this university, one of

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the oldest universities in Mexico, and all of

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a sudden they say, look, we're vegans.

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We wanna be able to eat food at

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our university and crickets.

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So tell us the story from the beginning,

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Yennifer.

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Oh, well, hello everyone.

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So this is basically really concerning for us

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because this university is such a big university

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in Peru.

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The San Marcos is really big, it's a

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public university and I felt really upset when

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these two students, and there's more than just

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two, right?

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And they were just being discriminated somehow because

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the only thing they could eat in the

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university was taking the, let's say, the meat

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out of the plate.

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So they must be eating rice, pasta, and

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that was it.

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And we're talking about these students are living

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there in the university, you know?

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They're studying there and most of them, they

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don't have a lot of money, so they

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totally need this nutrition food from the university

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and the university just don't see it, don't

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see a problem.

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They even say, this is absurd, this is

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totally nonsense.

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So I was really concerned when Alexander contacted

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me to be the interpreter of the hearing

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for this group, for Yemucus, Dr. Neil Bernard,

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Dr. Rowley, and Dr. Celia Shroud, I was

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really happy to help them because this is

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a big deal.

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If the university actually give vegan options, this

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is gonna be great news for the vegan

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society in Peru because it's gonna be a

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start.

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First, it's gonna be this public university, San

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Marcos, and then we can be to other

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universities, maybe schools, and then this is gonna

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be just a great deal if these two

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students, they are demanding the university win.

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Let me now go out to Alison Panjay.

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There's a lot of people involved in here,

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so thank you for your patience.

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Alison, what I was particularly taken by, and

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we invite this university on at any time,

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I was taken in the news reports I've

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read by the fact that they thought this

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was stupid and elitist.

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That's what's so bizarre to me that all

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of a sudden vegetables have become elitist and

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serving people meat is considered of the earth

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when obviously the indigenous peoples of Mexico were

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not eating at fast food restaurants over the

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course of centuries.

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Right, as a matter of fact, Peru traditionally

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is a potatoes and quinoa and squash.

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Peru is the origin of some of those

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foods.

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And so in the universities, which are in

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the cities where things tend to move toward

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the modern way, the US actually introduced the

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modern chicken.

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When I say modern chicken, I'm talking about

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the type of chicken that's been genetically improved,

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quote-unquote, to produce more meat at a

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more rapid pace.

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So the US introduced that type of chicken

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like 50 years ago and that kind of

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changed everything here in Peru.

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It became a thing.

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Before that meat was largely guinea pigs is

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what people ate here.

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And they still eat guinea pigs here, but

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it was only on a special occasion.

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And Monday through Friday, it would be rice,

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excuse me, it would be beans and potatoes.

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And that was more traditional here in Peru.

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So that was introduced to Peru.

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The chicken, the modern chicken was introduced by

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Purdue here about 50 years ago.

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And I don't know if people are aware

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of this, but Peru is home to the

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second largest portion of the Amazon jungle after

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Brazil.

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Peru has about 12% of the Amazon

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jungle.

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And most people are not aware of that.

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And Peru has an area that's the size

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of Texas.

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And in the Amazon jungle.

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And Peru is the source of 30%

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of the water that flows into the Amazon

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river across the continent and goes into the

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Atlantic ocean.

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So it's an important thing here to take

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care, to halt the deforestation.

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And that's part of the issue.

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Yes, Jane.

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Let me jump in.

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I wanna understand really what the lawsuit is

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about.

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Now, the attorney is here, the gentleman who

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is joining us.

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And we understand that Gabriela, who is one

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of the plaintiffs has just shown up, but

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she has not revealed her face.

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Gabriela, can you put your face on camera,

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please?

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So let me ask this.

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And getting back to the translator, what happened

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in the hearing?

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I wanna go over the essential facts of

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this case before we get to some of

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the deeper issues.

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But the basic facts of this case are

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that you're making some demands to provide significant

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plant-based alternatives, establish a registry of vegan

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students and have veganism recognised as an ethical

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principle protected by the fundamental right to freedom

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of conscience.

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Your complaint is that this university failed to

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offer any plant-based options in the dining

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hall, thereby violating the right to freedom of

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conscience, equality and non-discrimination, personal identity, free

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development of personality and essentially putting the health

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and sustenance of the students at risk.

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So let me ask you, how did this

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get to the point that there was a

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lawsuit?

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I mean, the students went in there, they

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said, hey, we can't eat any of this

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stuff.

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It's drenched in meat and dairy.

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We've all been there.

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I've worked in the corporate world where every

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time you wanted to have vegetables, it was

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with lard and I couldn't eat any of

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it.

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I've been in that situation.

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But you're saying the university simply laughed at

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this or stopped at it?

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Yes.

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I've talked with Gabriela and with Luis and

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they just said that the university gave them

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food, right?

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For free, free food for all the students

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because all day they don't have this support

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of their, let's say their parents.

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And I talked to them and they told

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me that sometimes their main lunch was rice,

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meat and then potatoes.

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And that would save a juice maybe.

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And in order to eat, because they were

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hungry, they could just eat the rice and

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the potatoes.

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And that's so bad for their health because

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they live in the university.

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They study there most of the time.

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So this is really a big concern.

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So I'm pretty sure that the university, for

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them, when they say that that was nonsense

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and nonsense demand and stupid demand, they totally

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feel discriminated.

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They felt left behind.

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So what happened in the hearing?

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There was a hearing and we're gonna find

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out about that but we've got a lot

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of callers.

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The people are really upset about this.

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Let's start with Paige in Los Angeles.

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Your question or thought for our panel, most

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of whom are coming from Peru.

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So this is quite a technological miracle considering

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that we're getting all these people from Peru

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to talk.

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Hi, can you hear me?

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Yes.

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Hello?

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Great, terrific.

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I think it's so essential that we're feeding

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the bright minds of the future now, healthy,

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delicious food.

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I'm curious, does the university recognise that we

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are in a climate crisis and that the

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Amazon is being burned down for this crop

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for animals?

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Is that something that's recognised?

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One piece of the puzzle here, I'm curious

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about, and in the United States, we're also

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working on bringing plant-based options to universities

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with the plants.

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So this is definitely a groundbreaking win, let's

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say.

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And I'm looking forward to hearing the responses.

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Thank you so much for taking my call.

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Thank you.

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So Alison, let's focus in on that.

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I mean, obviously it's not just a personal

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choice.

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It's an environmental choice.

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It's a compassionate choice.

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But particularly when we are in the throes

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of a growing climate crisis that is no

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longer hypothetical, that is real.

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I mean, we see it here in Los

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Angeles, fires, floods, all sorts of problems to

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the point where it's hard to get insurance

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sometimes for one's home.

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It's obviously even more extreme in Latin America,

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which is a hotter climate from the get

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-go.

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Isn't, is there any understanding of the climate

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aspect of this by the university?

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I would say there's very little understanding of

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the climate implications of our food systems.

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There are several different faculties within the university.

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There's a veterinary school.

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There is a school, it's a branch of

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engineering that deals with environment.

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But the question of the implication of what

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we eat is not really recognised here in

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Peru.

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And I think part of it is that

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unlike Brazil, where the primary cause of deforestation

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00:13:32,220 --> 00:13:36,840
is animal agriculture, here in Peru, that's not

276
00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:37,180
true.

277
00:13:37,560 --> 00:13:39,960
Peru is not a large consumer or producer

278
00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:40,580
of beef.

279
00:13:41,620 --> 00:13:45,020
There is dairy production, but there's not the

280
00:13:45,020 --> 00:13:47,400
awareness here in Peru about the implications of

281
00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:48,300
our food systems.

282
00:13:48,780 --> 00:13:53,040
And so, interestingly enough, this is a large

283
00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:58,140
university, over 40,000 students, and yes.

284
00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:02,860
And there doesn't seem to be an integrated

285
00:14:02,860 --> 00:14:03,440
awareness.

286
00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:06,480
There may be isolated awareness within the university,

287
00:14:06,740 --> 00:14:11,720
but the administration seems to be totally unaware

288
00:14:12,740 --> 00:14:15,700
of the environmental implications of our food systems.

289
00:14:16,150 --> 00:14:18,860
So sad, I mean, the New York Times

290
00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:23,860
reported on an Oxford University study that said

291
00:14:23,860 --> 00:14:26,740
that vegans are responsible for 75% less

292
00:14:26,740 --> 00:14:28,860
in greenhouse gases than meat eaters.

293
00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:31,800
Right there, that shows you the solution of

294
00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:32,720
the climate crisis.

295
00:14:33,300 --> 00:14:35,760
And to think that students at this university

296
00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:40,080
in Peru have to sue to get vegan

297
00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:42,660
options, it's really shocking.

298
00:14:43,180 --> 00:14:45,440
We invite the university on any time.

299
00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:47,300
I would love to dialogue with you.

300
00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:49,120
Let's go to our callers again.

301
00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:51,720
Tiffany in Los Angeles, your question or thought

302
00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:52,440
for our panel.

303
00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:55,040
Thank you, Jane.

304
00:14:55,380 --> 00:14:57,940
And this is for Gabriela and Louis.

305
00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:02,000
I'm so impressed by both of them doing

306
00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:03,960
the right thing for the animals, the environment,

307
00:15:04,020 --> 00:15:04,780
and health.

308
00:15:04,940 --> 00:15:07,180
What was the final straw that led you

309
00:15:07,180 --> 00:15:09,140
to decide to file a lawsuit?

310
00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:11,980
What's the story behind the lawsuit?

311
00:15:12,220 --> 00:15:12,680
Thank you.

312
00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:16,200
We do have the attorney for the two

313
00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:16,980
plaintiffs here.

314
00:15:17,140 --> 00:15:19,700
And I think we have Gabriela.

315
00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:21,860
Let's see if she's popping up.

316
00:15:22,140 --> 00:15:23,980
You know, she's in Peru, so it can

317
00:15:23,980 --> 00:15:27,360
be very difficult for folks to join.

318
00:15:27,500 --> 00:15:29,960
These students are not in a situation where

319
00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:31,220
there's excellent wifi.

320
00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:33,260
You can see the little circle, she's having

321
00:15:33,260 --> 00:15:33,640
trouble.

322
00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:35,280
Maybe you could answer.

323
00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:38,980
You can answer in Spanish, and then Yennefer

324
00:15:38,980 --> 00:15:39,780
can translate.

325
00:15:40,300 --> 00:15:42,060
Oh, here's Gabriela, hold on.

326
00:15:42,060 --> 00:15:44,680
Gabriela, let's get you up.

327
00:15:45,300 --> 00:15:45,840
All right.

328
00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:48,380
I'm gonna try to unmute you.

329
00:15:48,940 --> 00:15:50,760
Can you unmute yourself, please?

330
00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:52,500
Unmute yourself, Gabriela.

331
00:15:54,140 --> 00:15:54,820
Gabriela.

332
00:15:56,900 --> 00:15:59,200
Unmute yourself so we can hear you.

333
00:16:01,660 --> 00:16:02,080
Hello.

334
00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:04,260
Okay, well, there she is.

335
00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:05,220
There's Gabriela.

336
00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:07,740
And very, very...

337
00:16:07,740 --> 00:16:08,700
There she is.

338
00:16:08,820 --> 00:16:11,220
Can you unmute yourself, Gabriela?

339
00:16:11,580 --> 00:16:13,020
I can't unmute you.

340
00:16:14,380 --> 00:16:15,800
Gabriela, can you...

341
00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:17,320
Can you speak, Gabriela?

342
00:16:17,580 --> 00:16:21,260
We can't hear you because you're muted.

343
00:16:22,180 --> 00:16:23,520
You're here, now.

344
00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:28,860
Please start describing what happened, why you did

345
00:16:28,860 --> 00:16:29,340
this.

346
00:16:32,260 --> 00:16:34,800
Speak, please, Gabriela.

347
00:16:35,060 --> 00:16:37,180
Okay, I'm going to speak in Spanish, and

348
00:16:37,180 --> 00:16:38,160
Yennefer will translate.

349
00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:39,280
You can speak.

350
00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:40,780
Can you hear me?

351
00:16:41,540 --> 00:16:42,180
Yes.

352
00:16:42,180 --> 00:16:42,340
Yes.

353
00:16:45,690 --> 00:16:48,090
Start speaking, please, Gabriela.

354
00:16:51,700 --> 00:16:52,000
Okay.

355
00:16:52,700 --> 00:16:56,400
Well, about why I decided to make this

356
00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:59,720
claim, it's because the university doesn't provide food

357
00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:01,380
based on plants.

358
00:17:01,660 --> 00:17:03,720
And, well, as students, we don't have the

359
00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:05,560
economic and time possibilities.

360
00:17:07,300 --> 00:17:10,079
Yeah, because the university doesn't offer that.

361
00:17:10,079 --> 00:17:12,400
Even if we were, I don't know, omnivores,

362
00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:14,140
it's quite...

363
00:17:15,180 --> 00:17:16,000
Go on.

364
00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:17,200
Continue up, continue up.

365
00:17:20,230 --> 00:17:20,690
Continue.

366
00:17:22,150 --> 00:17:25,230
It's quite complicated because we work and study.

367
00:17:27,099 --> 00:17:29,770
In my case, I live alone, and I

368
00:17:29,770 --> 00:17:31,410
have to see how to solve my expenses

369
00:17:31,410 --> 00:17:32,150
and so on.

370
00:17:32,670 --> 00:17:35,110
And besides that, the university has a dining

371
00:17:35,110 --> 00:17:35,290
room.

372
00:17:35,470 --> 00:17:39,470
So that's why we asked the administration to

373
00:17:39,470 --> 00:17:41,610
provide us with an option based on plants,

374
00:17:41,990 --> 00:17:43,310
but they didn't answer us.

375
00:17:43,530 --> 00:17:45,370
Until now, they haven't answered us.

376
00:17:45,810 --> 00:17:48,330
And it's been about a year and a

377
00:17:48,330 --> 00:17:50,250
half since we got an answer.

378
00:17:50,750 --> 00:17:52,910
And, well, many students in San Marcos don't

379
00:17:52,910 --> 00:17:54,930
have the possibility, I don't know, to buy

380
00:17:54,930 --> 00:17:56,050
a menu every day.

381
00:17:56,490 --> 00:17:57,670
And that's why it's a necessity.

382
00:17:59,610 --> 00:17:59,890
Okay.

383
00:18:00,590 --> 00:18:03,770
So what I'm hearing, and you could translate

384
00:18:03,770 --> 00:18:06,510
further, is that it wasn't just five months,

385
00:18:06,570 --> 00:18:07,950
it was over a year.

386
00:18:08,570 --> 00:18:11,810
And she is essentially saying there's a lot

387
00:18:11,810 --> 00:18:13,610
of students that agree with her.

388
00:18:13,610 --> 00:18:16,570
It's not just her and her friend that

389
00:18:16,570 --> 00:18:19,270
she's speaking for a whole bunch of students.

390
00:18:19,650 --> 00:18:21,790
Can you elaborate on that, Allison?

391
00:18:22,070 --> 00:18:23,970
And obviously you're in Peru.

392
00:18:24,170 --> 00:18:26,490
Everybody here is talking from Peru.

393
00:18:26,650 --> 00:18:29,350
So thank you for giving us some of

394
00:18:29,350 --> 00:18:30,270
the technical issues.

395
00:18:30,370 --> 00:18:30,750
Go ahead.

396
00:18:32,070 --> 00:18:32,410
Yes.

397
00:18:32,530 --> 00:18:37,510
So the request was made actually last year.

398
00:18:37,890 --> 00:18:39,490
And so it's been a year and a

399
00:18:39,490 --> 00:18:43,210
half now that the request has been made.

400
00:18:45,830 --> 00:18:48,990
And there's been no answer, no reply, other

401
00:18:48,990 --> 00:18:52,290
than when the rector of the university spoke

402
00:18:52,290 --> 00:18:54,490
publicly and said that the request was absurd.

403
00:18:55,670 --> 00:19:00,870
And so taking the legal path now, being

404
00:19:00,870 --> 00:19:04,110
headed up by these two students, as well

405
00:19:04,110 --> 00:19:09,290
as Isaac Lobato, who is on screen, we

406
00:19:09,290 --> 00:19:13,350
are moving forward and using this avenue.

407
00:19:14,270 --> 00:19:18,250
And we've had the first hearing, and we're

408
00:19:18,250 --> 00:19:21,670
now waiting for the judge to respond based

409
00:19:21,670 --> 00:19:24,750
on the information that she was given, including

410
00:19:24,750 --> 00:19:28,670
three reports, one from Dr. Silas Rao, one

411
00:19:28,670 --> 00:19:31,750
from Dr. Raleigh from the Vegan Society, and

412
00:19:31,750 --> 00:19:34,810
one from Dr. Bernard from the PCR on

413
00:19:34,810 --> 00:19:36,870
the Physicians Committee for Responsible Health.

414
00:19:36,870 --> 00:19:37,270
And we're also working with the University of

415
00:19:37,270 --> 00:19:37,370
California on the issue of the use of

416
00:19:37,370 --> 00:19:37,470
medical medicine.

417
00:19:38,050 --> 00:19:42,390
So it's a case that's very well presented

418
00:19:42,390 --> 00:19:45,110
and supported, and we are on our way

419
00:19:45,110 --> 00:19:45,630
with this.

420
00:19:47,390 --> 00:19:48,110
Excellent.

421
00:19:48,570 --> 00:19:51,450
All right, well, if you're just joining us,

422
00:19:51,610 --> 00:19:55,090
I wanna say that we have an entire

423
00:19:55,090 --> 00:19:56,430
panel from Peru.

424
00:19:57,050 --> 00:19:58,930
This has been quite a deal to get

425
00:19:58,930 --> 00:20:00,230
this all together.

426
00:20:00,950 --> 00:20:03,990
Thanks to modern technology, we're able to talk

427
00:20:03,990 --> 00:20:04,830
to all of them.

428
00:20:05,350 --> 00:20:08,870
And you have one of the plaintiffs, one

429
00:20:08,870 --> 00:20:12,050
of the two plaintiffs is here, Gabriella, who

430
00:20:12,050 --> 00:20:14,650
just basically said they asked for a year

431
00:20:14,650 --> 00:20:17,490
nicely, and then when they got no response

432
00:20:17,490 --> 00:20:21,690
except dismissal, they finally had to file suit.

433
00:20:21,870 --> 00:20:23,350
And the good news here is that this

434
00:20:23,350 --> 00:20:27,010
is an opportunity to educate not only the

435
00:20:27,010 --> 00:20:30,450
students and the administration, but also possibly set

436
00:20:30,450 --> 00:20:34,750
a precedent that could reverberate around Latin America

437
00:20:34,750 --> 00:20:35,810
or even the world.

438
00:20:35,930 --> 00:20:37,990
Let's go to our next caller, Nilo Farr

439
00:20:37,990 --> 00:20:41,090
in Dallas, Texas, your question or thought for

440
00:20:41,090 --> 00:20:41,750
our panel.

441
00:20:43,270 --> 00:20:43,910
Hi.

442
00:20:44,610 --> 00:20:46,650
First, I signed the petition.

443
00:20:46,810 --> 00:20:48,130
It was very easy to do.

444
00:20:49,670 --> 00:20:52,950
Second, it's quite fascinating that Peru has a

445
00:20:52,950 --> 00:20:54,670
nascent veganism movement.

446
00:20:54,670 --> 00:20:58,670
It's even more fascinating that the issue has

447
00:20:58,670 --> 00:20:59,950
now gone to court.

448
00:21:00,770 --> 00:21:04,970
Question, are there any risks involved in doing

449
00:21:04,970 --> 00:21:08,370
vegan and environmental activism in Peru?

450
00:21:09,930 --> 00:21:11,230
What do you mean by risk?

451
00:21:11,250 --> 00:21:12,650
Are you saying you think people are going

452
00:21:12,650 --> 00:21:14,390
to come after them with a sledgehammer or

453
00:21:14,390 --> 00:21:14,670
something?

454
00:21:16,030 --> 00:21:21,390
Well, there's a record of environmental activists in

455
00:21:21,390 --> 00:21:23,830
South America being assassinated.

456
00:21:24,630 --> 00:21:25,370
Oh, my gosh.

457
00:21:25,630 --> 00:21:25,990
Geez.

458
00:21:26,430 --> 00:21:28,330
Well, let's go to the attorney on that.

459
00:21:28,470 --> 00:21:30,330
I don't know if you heard the question,

460
00:21:30,950 --> 00:21:33,630
but can you answer and feel free to

461
00:21:33,630 --> 00:21:35,310
answer in Spanish and then we'll translate.

462
00:21:35,790 --> 00:21:37,170
And we're going to unmute you.

463
00:21:37,270 --> 00:21:38,350
So unmute yourself.

464
00:21:39,090 --> 00:21:40,490
You have to unmute yourself.

465
00:21:40,630 --> 00:21:40,970
Go ahead.

466
00:21:42,590 --> 00:21:44,190
Thanks, Jen.

467
00:21:44,490 --> 00:21:47,650
It's a thankful invitation and it's an honour

468
00:21:47,650 --> 00:21:49,830
to be here in your programme.

469
00:21:50,730 --> 00:21:52,010
And thanks also for the question.

470
00:21:52,210 --> 00:21:57,710
I find it very important because about veganism,

471
00:21:58,370 --> 00:22:03,390
there is no personal or integrity or risk.

472
00:22:04,070 --> 00:22:10,310
However, environmental activism is at risk.

473
00:22:10,310 --> 00:22:13,730
And that's a very, very sad.

474
00:22:14,190 --> 00:22:16,310
This is a very sad situation here in

475
00:22:16,310 --> 00:22:21,430
Peru because overall, indigenous environmental defenders.

476
00:22:22,890 --> 00:22:28,250
Until this year, there has been 35 deaths,

477
00:22:29,210 --> 00:22:35,070
murders to indigenous defenders of their territory and

478
00:22:35,070 --> 00:22:36,570
their environment.

479
00:22:37,570 --> 00:22:43,210
And that's a very sad situation here in

480
00:22:43,210 --> 00:22:43,450
Peru.

481
00:22:43,690 --> 00:22:47,750
And the government, their mechanism to protect their

482
00:22:47,750 --> 00:22:49,970
life are inefficient overall.

483
00:22:50,770 --> 00:22:51,510
Wow.

484
00:22:51,810 --> 00:22:53,030
Well, that's terrifying.

485
00:22:53,530 --> 00:22:56,010
I want to go back to Allison and

486
00:22:56,010 --> 00:23:00,190
ask you your reaction to that because I

487
00:23:00,190 --> 00:23:01,330
frankly was unaware.

488
00:23:01,950 --> 00:23:04,730
He's saying a lot of environmental activists in

489
00:23:04,730 --> 00:23:05,830
Peru have been murdered?

490
00:23:05,830 --> 00:23:06,570
Yes.

491
00:23:06,890 --> 00:23:07,810
That's scary.

492
00:23:08,190 --> 00:23:08,690
Tell us.

493
00:23:08,930 --> 00:23:09,110
Yeah.

494
00:23:10,090 --> 00:23:11,770
Peru is half jungle.

495
00:23:11,970 --> 00:23:14,050
Half of the Peruvian territory is jungle.

496
00:23:14,470 --> 00:23:16,610
And that's where these deaths are occurring, where

497
00:23:16,610 --> 00:23:18,170
people do not speak English.

498
00:23:18,310 --> 00:23:19,510
They do not speak Spanish.

499
00:23:20,450 --> 00:23:24,310
Although some of their key leaders do speak

500
00:23:24,310 --> 00:23:24,810
Spanish.

501
00:23:25,710 --> 00:23:30,290
But in any case, they're defending their rights

502
00:23:30,290 --> 00:23:36,030
to their land and they get murdered because

503
00:23:36,030 --> 00:23:38,210
they're a nuisance to those who want to

504
00:23:38,210 --> 00:23:39,590
carry out other activities.

505
00:23:40,330 --> 00:23:43,070
So, for instance, in Peru, there's a lot

506
00:23:43,070 --> 00:23:47,290
of deforestation because of production of coca, which

507
00:23:47,290 --> 00:23:48,530
is used to make cocaine.

508
00:23:48,910 --> 00:23:52,350
So the coca leaf is very hard to

509
00:23:52,350 --> 00:23:52,810
control.

510
00:23:53,550 --> 00:23:56,490
Obviously, there are strong illegal forces behind it.

511
00:23:57,050 --> 00:24:00,490
There is some legal coca production in Peru,

512
00:24:00,690 --> 00:24:03,470
which is used for, I'm not sure, medicinal

513
00:24:04,150 --> 00:24:05,390
purposes, I believe.

514
00:24:05,750 --> 00:24:08,950
But the majority of it is cocaine production,

515
00:24:09,110 --> 00:24:11,670
which is illegal, or coca production, which is

516
00:24:11,670 --> 00:24:12,090
illegal.

517
00:24:12,430 --> 00:24:14,370
And it's causing deforestation.

518
00:24:14,370 --> 00:24:21,170
And so these illegal producers enter the indigenous

519
00:24:21,170 --> 00:24:23,490
lands in the Amazon forest.

520
00:24:24,070 --> 00:24:26,930
And when the indigenous people go to protect

521
00:24:26,930 --> 00:24:30,490
their property and their rights, they often are

522
00:24:30,490 --> 00:24:32,450
killed by these narco traffickers.

523
00:24:32,850 --> 00:24:33,850
I don't know how you say it in

524
00:24:33,850 --> 00:24:35,310
English, but the traffickers.

525
00:24:35,770 --> 00:24:36,210
Yeah.

526
00:24:36,330 --> 00:24:36,890
Yeah.

527
00:24:37,150 --> 00:24:38,750
Well, that's very sad.

528
00:24:38,750 --> 00:24:42,030
I certainly, certainly hope that the plaintiffs in

529
00:24:42,030 --> 00:24:46,810
this lawsuit, I don't think there's crossover.

530
00:24:47,910 --> 00:24:50,310
Demanding vegan options is not the same.

531
00:24:50,730 --> 00:24:51,910
But stay safe.

532
00:24:52,010 --> 00:24:52,670
Stay safe.

533
00:24:53,310 --> 00:24:55,590
It's kind of scary.

534
00:24:55,890 --> 00:24:57,790
I want to go back to Gabriela.

535
00:24:58,190 --> 00:24:59,830
And we're going to ask you to unmute.

536
00:25:00,290 --> 00:25:01,690
Unmute so you can talk.

537
00:25:08,750 --> 00:25:11,750
Quiero que hablas, Gabriela.

538
00:25:12,290 --> 00:25:12,430
Okay.

539
00:25:13,310 --> 00:25:13,670
Dime.

540
00:25:13,890 --> 00:25:14,150
Okay.

541
00:25:14,550 --> 00:25:14,870
Yes.

542
00:25:16,070 --> 00:25:22,900
¿Puedes hablar más sobre la reacción en su

543
00:25:22,900 --> 00:25:27,780
universidad entre los estudiantes?

544
00:25:27,980 --> 00:25:32,440
Los estudiantes, ¿cómo piensan ellos?

545
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:35,600
Okay.

546
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:36,420
Bueno.

547
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:38,640
Okay.

548
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:40,240
Bueno.

549
00:25:40,340 --> 00:25:42,580
Quienes me conocen en realidad, o son cercanos

550
00:25:42,580 --> 00:25:44,400
a mí, me han apoyado bastante.

551
00:25:45,540 --> 00:25:47,560
Pero quienes no saben, digamos que de la

552
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:50,260
lucha que se está siguiendo, pues se burlan

553
00:25:50,260 --> 00:25:53,060
o intentan minimizar nuestra lucha.

554
00:25:53,580 --> 00:25:56,580
Especialmente por las declaraciones que hubieron, ¿no?

555
00:25:56,580 --> 00:25:57,280
Sin sustento.

556
00:25:57,820 --> 00:26:00,720
Que solo buscaban desinformar de parte de la

557
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:01,140
rectora.

558
00:26:02,740 --> 00:26:03,300
Bueno.

559
00:26:03,460 --> 00:26:05,980
Ahí justo un medio de comunicación le pidió

560
00:26:05,980 --> 00:26:08,420
una entrevista sobre el presupuesto de la universidad.

561
00:26:08,660 --> 00:26:11,640
Pero ella, para desviar el tema, mencionó nuestra

562
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:14,080
demanda y la tildó de absurda.

563
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:16,700
Y, bueno, que esta es una universidad del

564
00:26:16,700 --> 00:26:17,020
pueblo.

565
00:26:17,860 --> 00:26:20,900
Y la verdad es bastante indignante que minimice

566
00:26:20,900 --> 00:26:24,220
e instrumentalice de esa manera nuestra demanda.

567
00:26:24,420 --> 00:26:27,260
Especialmente porque quienes hemos demandado somos parte del

568
00:26:27,260 --> 00:26:29,460
pueblo del que hablan, ¿no?

569
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:35,440
Entonces, algunos alumnos se empezaron a burlar por

570
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:36,000
esta situación.

571
00:26:36,460 --> 00:26:39,080
Empezaron a mandar mis datos a un grupo

572
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:41,480
de más de 400 personas para burlarse.

573
00:26:41,740 --> 00:26:44,580
Y por otro grupo de mi universidad, unos

574
00:26:44,580 --> 00:26:47,380
chicos empezaron a dirigirse a mi persona despectivamente.

575
00:26:48,020 --> 00:26:51,400
Me decían requítica, mantenida, parásito del estado, entre

576
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:52,200
más cosas, ¿no?

577
00:26:53,300 --> 00:26:56,780
Luego, fuimos víctima de los comentarios malintencionados por

578
00:26:56,780 --> 00:27:00,760
parte de un medio, de un reportero que

579
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:03,840
es bastante cuestionado en nuestro país, el cual

580
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:06,420
difundió mi imagen de perfil y mi usuario

581
00:27:06,420 --> 00:27:06,980
de Facebook.

582
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:10,100
Después de esto, me empezaron a llegar mensajes

583
00:27:10,100 --> 00:27:12,840
de hombres quienes criticaban mi cuerpo.

584
00:27:13,140 --> 00:27:15,360
Y, pues, de cierta manera me insultaron diciéndome

585
00:27:15,360 --> 00:27:16,860
que soy, o sea, lo mismo, ¿no?

586
00:27:16,900 --> 00:27:18,300
De mantener el estado y demás.

587
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:25,440
Translator, I was, you know, my Spanish is

588
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:27,960
not great, but my understanding, oh, and we've

589
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:29,740
got Dr. Silas Frau joining.

590
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:32,500
Wow, what an incredible honour.

591
00:27:33,020 --> 00:27:35,120
But if you could just translate what the

592
00:27:35,120 --> 00:27:37,800
plaintiff Gabriela said, my understanding is she said

593
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:42,260
she's Yennefer, she's getting harassed, people are attacking

594
00:27:42,260 --> 00:27:42,560
her.

595
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:46,320
There's also unspoken media.

596
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:48,060
Tell us, tell us what she said in

597
00:27:48,060 --> 00:27:48,520
a nutshell.

598
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:52,820
Oh, well, they were bullying her.

599
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:56,000
But those who don't know about the struggle

600
00:27:56,000 --> 00:28:00,000
that was going on, the two plaintiffs make

601
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:03,880
fun of trying to minimise their struggle, especially

602
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:07,940
because of the un-sustainability, the statement made

603
00:28:07,940 --> 00:28:11,880
by the rector, right, which only sort of

604
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:12,760
misinformed.

605
00:28:13,120 --> 00:28:16,180
A media outlet asked her to interview on

606
00:28:16,180 --> 00:28:19,600
the university budget, but in order to defer

607
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:22,880
the subject that she mentioned are the demand

608
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:27,100
and call it absurd nonsense, and that is

609
00:28:27,100 --> 00:28:30,220
a university of the people, but these two

610
00:28:30,220 --> 00:28:32,140
plaintiffs, they are part of the university.

611
00:28:32,340 --> 00:28:33,100
They are people.

612
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:36,740
And it is outrageous for her and for

613
00:28:36,740 --> 00:28:42,260
Luis that the rector minimises their feelings and

614
00:28:42,260 --> 00:28:47,260
their demand, especially because those two demands, these

615
00:28:47,260 --> 00:28:49,500
two plans, they are part of the people,

616
00:28:49,700 --> 00:28:50,620
they are students.

617
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:53,620
And, yeah, they were harassing her.

618
00:28:53,780 --> 00:28:54,800
They were bullying her.

619
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:56,500
They were calling skinny.

620
00:28:57,320 --> 00:28:58,820
They were body shaming her.

621
00:28:59,220 --> 00:29:02,600
They were saying that she is a rat,

622
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:04,360
really, really bad.

623
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:05,960
Wow.

624
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:07,580
Thank you.

625
00:29:07,700 --> 00:29:09,240
I want to bring in Dr. Rao.

626
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:11,080
Thank you for joining us, Dr. Rao.

627
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:14,380
Everybody else is joining us from Peru, and

628
00:29:14,380 --> 00:29:16,500
so this is pretty extraordinary that we even

629
00:29:16,500 --> 00:29:17,860
have this conversation going.

630
00:29:18,340 --> 00:29:21,120
But, Dr. Rao, as the founder of Climate

631
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:24,560
Healers, can you tell us what the bigger

632
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:28,900
significance of this entire lawsuit is?

633
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:32,660
Yeah, the significance here is that these students

634
00:29:32,660 --> 00:29:37,140
are asking for an option that would not

635
00:29:37,140 --> 00:29:42,740
only, you know, address their conscientious objections to

636
00:29:42,740 --> 00:29:45,940
eating meat, but also give them a sustainable

637
00:29:45,940 --> 00:29:46,560
future.

638
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:49,840
And the university, which is a place of

639
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:52,520
education, which should be a place of research

640
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:57,060
and new beginnings, is basically saying no.

641
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:00,500
How could that, you know, I mean, to

642
00:30:00,500 --> 00:30:01,640
me, how could that stand?

643
00:30:04,220 --> 00:30:06,680
This university has no leg to stand on

644
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:09,040
because they are supposed to be leading in

645
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:11,740
this effort towards sustainability.

646
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:15,080
And the students are basically saying, give us

647
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:15,520
a future.

648
00:30:18,070 --> 00:30:20,250
This is why I was struck when this

649
00:30:20,250 --> 00:30:21,450
lawsuit came to my attention.

650
00:30:21,650 --> 00:30:23,170
And I told Alison I would love to

651
00:30:23,170 --> 00:30:28,090
help by writing a legal brief on behalf

652
00:30:28,090 --> 00:30:28,810
of the students.

653
00:30:28,810 --> 00:30:34,710
And explaining why this is such an important

654
00:30:34,710 --> 00:30:36,870
issue from an environmental perspective.

655
00:30:37,850 --> 00:30:42,410
I was really struck by how, I hate

656
00:30:42,410 --> 00:30:46,290
to say it, backward the university is on

657
00:30:46,290 --> 00:30:48,690
this issue, when I know that there are

658
00:30:48,690 --> 00:30:51,450
other places in Latin America that are leading

659
00:30:51,450 --> 00:30:55,170
in the vegan and plant based movement.

660
00:30:55,170 --> 00:31:00,330
Mexico City has something like 80 vegan restaurants.

661
00:31:01,050 --> 00:31:02,510
It is a vegan Mecca.

662
00:31:03,030 --> 00:31:06,670
Costa Rica is very forward thinking when it

663
00:31:06,670 --> 00:31:08,230
comes to veganism.

664
00:31:09,530 --> 00:31:13,230
It was really shocking to me that Peru,

665
00:31:13,790 --> 00:31:15,630
which when I think of Peru, of course,

666
00:31:15,730 --> 00:31:17,150
this is, I've never been to Peru, but

667
00:31:17,150 --> 00:31:19,210
I think of a tropical forest.

668
00:31:19,330 --> 00:31:21,610
I think of fruits, vegetables, nuts and grains.

669
00:31:21,690 --> 00:31:23,170
I don't think of steak.

670
00:31:23,980 --> 00:31:28,230
I was very shocked, Dr. Rao, by how

671
00:31:28,230 --> 00:31:33,950
it's almost like a colonialist attitude toward diet.

672
00:31:34,790 --> 00:31:35,370
Right.

673
00:31:35,710 --> 00:31:38,170
It is based on, you know, colonialism is

674
00:31:38,170 --> 00:31:43,430
about imposing our, you know, the coloniser's culture

675
00:31:43,430 --> 00:31:44,480
on the colonised.

676
00:31:45,750 --> 00:31:48,190
I'm sure the indigenous people of Peru are

677
00:31:48,190 --> 00:31:50,380
not eating chicken and steak.

678
00:31:50,380 --> 00:31:53,140
They were eating what is available to them,

679
00:31:53,260 --> 00:31:55,720
which is, you know, it's growing in plenty

680
00:31:55,720 --> 00:32:00,060
around the plants and primarily plants is what

681
00:32:00,060 --> 00:32:00,800
they would be eating.

682
00:32:01,340 --> 00:32:04,840
So it's imposing our culture on them, saying

683
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:06,260
you need to be eating McDonald's.

684
00:32:06,340 --> 00:32:08,200
You need to be eating, you know, Purdue

685
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:08,580
chicken.

686
00:32:10,900 --> 00:32:13,280
That to me is a form of colonialism,

687
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:15,180
right, in the food.

688
00:32:16,540 --> 00:32:19,380
Well, indeed, it's food colonialism.

689
00:32:20,220 --> 00:32:23,900
And I think it's something that what always

690
00:32:23,900 --> 00:32:28,120
strikes me as so frustrating is when people

691
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:29,840
co-sign their own oppression.

692
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:33,460
And this is what I think this university,

693
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:37,060
respectfully, we invite them on any time, but

694
00:32:37,060 --> 00:32:38,320
I think that's what's happening.

695
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:43,020
It's almost like we want to adopt the

696
00:32:43,020 --> 00:32:50,500
Western diet to prove whatever, when indeed a

697
00:32:50,500 --> 00:32:54,800
true reflexion of Peru, if you go back

698
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:58,380
millennia, would be almost entirely plant-based or

699
00:32:58,380 --> 00:33:00,480
certainly primarily plant-based.

700
00:33:00,860 --> 00:33:05,660
I have to go back to Alison on

701
00:33:05,660 --> 00:33:05,960
that.

702
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:09,400
You know, you're there, Alison, in Peru.

703
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:13,240
Is there discussion about this at all?

704
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:15,980
Or is this something that we're seeing from

705
00:33:15,980 --> 00:33:18,760
afar, but the folks there are too close

706
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:19,400
to see it?

707
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:23,860
Well, certainly there's a lot of discussion within

708
00:33:23,860 --> 00:33:25,780
the vegan community here in Peru.

709
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:29,720
The majority of Peruvians who are vegan are

710
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:33,920
vegan because of ethical reasons.

711
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:37,640
And one of the ethical reasons is environmental.

712
00:33:38,380 --> 00:33:42,840
But also they're very concerned about the well

713
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:43,880
-being of animals.

714
00:33:44,220 --> 00:33:47,940
And it's a substantial movement.

715
00:33:48,260 --> 00:33:55,040
And we do have a dozen vegan restaurants

716
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:55,580
in Lima.

717
00:33:56,060 --> 00:34:00,360
So it's not something that's unknown, but there's

718
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:01,360
a lot of resistance.

719
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:04,320
Peru is, I would say, having lived here

720
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:08,020
for nearly 40 years, there's a conservative aspect

721
00:34:08,020 --> 00:34:11,400
of Peru that maybe comes from Catholicism.

722
00:34:12,900 --> 00:34:19,580
And so there's always a conservative push to

723
00:34:19,580 --> 00:34:21,219
embracing new things.

724
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:24,120
Now, if it's shown that you can make

725
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:31,340
money with veganism, then there are thousands and

726
00:34:31,340 --> 00:34:34,040
millions of entrepreneurs waiting to take advantage.

727
00:34:34,659 --> 00:34:36,060
And so we do have a lot of

728
00:34:36,060 --> 00:34:38,940
new companies that have started up.

729
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:41,380
One of them is called Peruvian VEF, V

730
00:34:41,380 --> 00:34:42,139
-E-E-F.

731
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:48,100
So we have organic supermarkets.

732
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:51,460
And it's more than a budding industry.

733
00:34:51,980 --> 00:34:53,060
Things are changing.

734
00:34:53,580 --> 00:34:58,960
And this lawsuit is key, pulling people together

735
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:01,820
from all of the universities and bringing it

736
00:35:01,820 --> 00:35:03,540
into the public dialogue.

737
00:35:04,500 --> 00:35:08,680
So, yeah, it's not like Mexico.

738
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:15,960
There's been more of a transformation due to

739
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:21,220
this colonialist attitude of the wealthy who have

740
00:35:21,220 --> 00:35:25,020
changed the way of eating, particularly in the

741
00:35:25,020 --> 00:35:30,180
cities, from the traditional food to this elitist

742
00:35:30,180 --> 00:35:32,440
type of consumption of animals.

743
00:35:33,300 --> 00:35:36,680
And if you go into the rural areas,

744
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:40,100
you will not find people eating nearly as

745
00:35:40,100 --> 00:35:44,440
much chicken as they do in the urban

746
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:45,040
areas.

747
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:48,960
But it's a product of colonialism, absolutely.

748
00:35:49,720 --> 00:35:52,460
Well, if you are joining us, we're bringing

749
00:35:52,460 --> 00:35:56,460
you a breaking news about this lawsuit that

750
00:35:56,460 --> 00:35:59,220
was filed against a major university in Peru

751
00:35:59,220 --> 00:36:01,940
by these two students, one of whom has

752
00:36:01,940 --> 00:36:06,300
joined us, and they simply want plant-based

753
00:36:06,300 --> 00:36:10,880
options, significant plant-based options, not just bread

754
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:14,540
and pasta and rice, which is not sustainable

755
00:36:14,540 --> 00:36:16,080
for them health-wise.

756
00:36:16,300 --> 00:36:19,380
So they've made demands in this lawsuit.

757
00:36:19,620 --> 00:36:22,020
The dining hall must provide plant-based alternatives

758
00:36:22,020 --> 00:36:24,420
that are approved by a nutritionist specialising in

759
00:36:24,420 --> 00:36:25,060
vegan nutrition.

760
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:28,540
The university must establish a registry of vegan

761
00:36:28,540 --> 00:36:31,540
students, and veganism must be recognised as an

762
00:36:31,540 --> 00:36:34,100
ethical principle protected by the fundamental right to

763
00:36:34,100 --> 00:36:35,160
freedom of conscience.

764
00:36:35,740 --> 00:36:39,600
So where does this lawsuit stand?

765
00:36:40,300 --> 00:36:41,660
There was a hearing.

766
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:44,420
What was the outcome of the hearing in

767
00:36:44,420 --> 00:36:44,920
a nutshell?

768
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:47,600
And what's the next step?

769
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:49,300
And let's go back to Alison on that.

770
00:36:50,020 --> 00:36:50,500
Okay.

771
00:36:50,580 --> 00:36:53,080
I think Isaac, the attorney, would be a

772
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:53,980
better one to answer.

773
00:36:54,260 --> 00:36:55,060
Well, sure.

774
00:36:55,340 --> 00:36:55,500
Okay.

775
00:36:57,220 --> 00:36:58,420
We're going to go to you.

776
00:36:59,540 --> 00:37:02,200
Unmute yourself, sir, and tell us what happened

777
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:02,820
in court.

778
00:37:05,630 --> 00:37:06,050
Yes.

779
00:37:07,650 --> 00:37:12,670
We had the hearing on September 9th, and

780
00:37:12,670 --> 00:37:16,750
then there will be the judgement, because we

781
00:37:16,750 --> 00:37:19,970
are in a constitutional process, and it means

782
00:37:19,970 --> 00:37:23,870
that it's very short if we compare with

783
00:37:23,870 --> 00:37:29,030
other kinds of uses of judgement.

784
00:37:29,630 --> 00:37:33,290
So, yeah, in that case, I don't know

785
00:37:33,290 --> 00:37:36,150
if maybe until the last of the year,

786
00:37:36,470 --> 00:37:38,230
at the end of the year, we finally

787
00:37:38,230 --> 00:37:40,450
get a judgement, and we hope so.

788
00:37:40,510 --> 00:37:44,770
But it will depend on the judge, principally.

789
00:37:45,110 --> 00:37:47,690
So it's a judge, a single judge, making

790
00:37:47,690 --> 00:37:48,490
this decision.

791
00:37:48,690 --> 00:37:51,150
It's not a jury.

792
00:37:51,990 --> 00:37:54,050
It's one judge who hears this?

793
00:37:54,130 --> 00:37:57,610
Yeah, because we are on the first instance,

794
00:37:57,610 --> 00:38:00,750
and in the first instance, it's only one

795
00:38:00,750 --> 00:38:01,030
judge.

796
00:38:01,410 --> 00:38:06,170
Then after it, independent of the decision, of

797
00:38:06,170 --> 00:38:08,450
the judgement, if it's in favour to us

798
00:38:08,450 --> 00:38:12,810
or against to us, the part who is

799
00:38:12,810 --> 00:38:16,530
not beneficent for it will appear, the judgement,

800
00:38:16,990 --> 00:38:18,950
and now will be a jury.

801
00:38:19,530 --> 00:38:22,490
There will be the second instance where three

802
00:38:22,490 --> 00:38:25,470
judges, not only one, will solve the case.

803
00:38:25,470 --> 00:38:29,990
And if we go in the second instance,

804
00:38:30,730 --> 00:38:34,570
the process is over, and there will be

805
00:38:34,570 --> 00:38:38,450
all these requests, right?

806
00:38:38,890 --> 00:38:44,290
However, if we don't win in the second

807
00:38:44,290 --> 00:38:48,070
instance, we could go to the constitutional court.

808
00:38:48,470 --> 00:38:53,570
In that case, the most important court to

809
00:38:53,570 --> 00:38:56,470
interpret the constitution in our country.

810
00:38:56,970 --> 00:38:58,390
Let me ask you this question.

811
00:38:59,090 --> 00:39:01,590
Did the university show up at the hearing,

812
00:39:01,590 --> 00:39:04,470
and what exactly did they say in their

813
00:39:04,470 --> 00:39:06,750
own defence in front of the judge?

814
00:39:07,630 --> 00:39:09,850
It's a very important question.

815
00:39:11,470 --> 00:39:16,350
The defence, the other lawyers said that basically

816
00:39:16,350 --> 00:39:21,270
formal arguments that say that there is, we

817
00:39:21,270 --> 00:39:24,350
pretend a right to beginnings, and that right

818
00:39:24,350 --> 00:39:26,310
to beginnings doesn't exist.

819
00:39:26,750 --> 00:39:29,530
But that's false, because we are not pretending

820
00:39:29,530 --> 00:39:32,550
to recognise a new right.

821
00:39:33,110 --> 00:39:35,110
This right actually exists, and this is the

822
00:39:35,110 --> 00:39:37,910
freedom of consciousness, and we only want to,

823
00:39:38,630 --> 00:39:42,290
beginnings, consider as a protected belief, right?

824
00:39:42,470 --> 00:39:46,130
And then the other argument is that beginnings,

825
00:39:46,130 --> 00:39:51,690
there is not a conscience about how beginnings

826
00:39:51,690 --> 00:39:54,850
will impact our health, and we need a

827
00:39:54,850 --> 00:39:58,450
new, a whole other process when you can

828
00:39:58,450 --> 00:40:01,410
discuss even more with a lot of specialists

829
00:40:01,410 --> 00:40:05,350
about this beginnings, why it's good for our

830
00:40:05,350 --> 00:40:09,450
health, or their health is not in risk

831
00:40:09,450 --> 00:40:11,470
if you are vegan, right?

832
00:40:11,470 --> 00:40:17,990
And in that case, we thank Dr. Barnard,

833
00:40:18,210 --> 00:40:22,370
because he's absolutely authority in this topic, and

834
00:40:22,370 --> 00:40:25,390
said that there are a lot of international

835
00:40:25,390 --> 00:40:30,010
organisations, a lot of experts that said, even

836
00:40:30,010 --> 00:40:32,330
if they are not vegans, but beginnings is

837
00:40:32,330 --> 00:40:33,210
perfect.

838
00:40:34,270 --> 00:40:37,370
I'm going to jump in and say, okay,

839
00:40:37,470 --> 00:40:40,910
so the attorneys for the school argued against,

840
00:40:41,210 --> 00:40:44,230
in court, this all happened on September 9th,

841
00:40:44,370 --> 00:40:45,890
I want to talk a little bit about

842
00:40:45,890 --> 00:40:50,910
the implications, because, for example, there was a

843
00:40:50,910 --> 00:40:52,590
gentleman who happens to be a writer at

844
00:40:52,590 --> 00:40:55,950
Unchained TV, Jordi Casamejana, who went to court

845
00:40:55,950 --> 00:41:00,110
in England, and said that he had a

846
00:41:00,110 --> 00:41:03,250
basic right as a vegan, and it's a

847
00:41:03,250 --> 00:41:05,990
very complicated lawsuit, it's not exactly similar to

848
00:41:05,990 --> 00:41:08,510
this, but the bottom line was that that

849
00:41:08,510 --> 00:41:13,630
lawsuit ultimately established veganism as a protected class

850
00:41:13,630 --> 00:41:17,990
akin to religion in the United Kingdom, and

851
00:41:17,990 --> 00:41:21,230
that had huge implications for, let's say, a

852
00:41:21,230 --> 00:41:24,610
company having a holiday party, they provide vegan

853
00:41:24,610 --> 00:41:26,950
options, so this was a huge development.

854
00:41:27,430 --> 00:41:29,450
I want to ask Dr. Rao, what are

855
00:41:29,450 --> 00:41:32,850
the legal implications, in your opinion, let's say

856
00:41:32,850 --> 00:41:35,750
they were to win, ultimately, in terms of

857
00:41:35,750 --> 00:41:39,390
what schools around Latin America and other institutions

858
00:41:39,390 --> 00:41:42,550
would have to do to avoid also being

859
00:41:42,550 --> 00:41:42,930
sued?

860
00:41:44,130 --> 00:41:48,430
Yeah, I think this has tremendous implications.

861
00:41:48,850 --> 00:41:52,930
If we win the lawsuit, then it establishes

862
00:41:52,930 --> 00:41:56,550
this as a right to conscience, which is

863
00:41:56,550 --> 00:41:59,430
not just about food, but also, I mean,

864
00:41:59,430 --> 00:42:05,170
as the attorney was telling us about, you

865
00:42:05,170 --> 00:42:09,150
know, veterinary students don't have to learn how

866
00:42:09,150 --> 00:42:12,150
to disassemble animals, which is what they're taught

867
00:42:12,150 --> 00:42:12,790
to do, right?

868
00:42:13,170 --> 00:42:14,170
How to kill them.

869
00:42:15,130 --> 00:42:17,890
They're taught, because their conscience is to protect

870
00:42:17,890 --> 00:42:19,390
the animals, so they want to do that.

871
00:42:20,310 --> 00:42:22,950
So I think it has tremendous implications for

872
00:42:22,950 --> 00:42:27,410
all educational institutions, in Peru especially, and probably

873
00:42:27,410 --> 00:42:29,170
throughout the world.

874
00:42:30,030 --> 00:42:32,530
People can cite that as a precedent.

875
00:42:33,330 --> 00:42:36,870
So when you really think about it, it

876
00:42:36,870 --> 00:42:38,950
could be the best thing that ever happened

877
00:42:38,950 --> 00:42:42,870
for veganism, for the school to have been

878
00:42:42,870 --> 00:42:49,530
so intransigent and absolutely not flexible and not

879
00:42:49,530 --> 00:42:52,690
embracing of students who were saying, this is

880
00:42:52,690 --> 00:42:55,570
against our belief system to eat the body

881
00:42:55,570 --> 00:42:57,090
parts of animals or their byproducts.

882
00:42:57,870 --> 00:43:00,490
Please provide us with something healthy to eat

883
00:43:00,490 --> 00:43:03,570
that is vegan, something substantial, not just bread

884
00:43:03,570 --> 00:43:04,750
and pasta.

885
00:43:05,510 --> 00:43:08,230
And ultimately, those students filed suit.

886
00:43:09,070 --> 00:43:13,410
I think it's really interesting, Yennefer, to think

887
00:43:13,410 --> 00:43:16,110
about the unintended consequences.

888
00:43:16,470 --> 00:43:18,390
I mean, if they had decided, yeah, okay,

889
00:43:18,390 --> 00:43:20,530
we're going to give you some fruits and

890
00:43:20,530 --> 00:43:23,690
vegetables every day, it might have just gone

891
00:43:23,690 --> 00:43:24,050
away.

892
00:43:24,130 --> 00:43:27,130
But now there's this opportunity to really make

893
00:43:27,130 --> 00:43:30,610
a change culturally in Peru and beyond.

894
00:43:30,770 --> 00:43:32,530
Can you give us your feelings on that?

895
00:43:34,190 --> 00:43:34,690
Yes.

896
00:43:36,810 --> 00:43:40,230
When I talked with Gabriel and Luis, they

897
00:43:40,230 --> 00:43:42,750
told me that some of the students, this

898
00:43:42,750 --> 00:43:49,070
is really important, well, they were not food

899
00:43:49,070 --> 00:43:50,950
to eat more than bread and pasta.

900
00:43:51,890 --> 00:43:54,610
And Luis told me that for a second

901
00:43:54,610 --> 00:43:59,110
he doubted about still going vegan, still being

902
00:43:59,110 --> 00:44:02,010
vegan, and that was really, really sad.

903
00:44:03,330 --> 00:44:07,630
And just Gabriela, she was suffering a lot

904
00:44:07,630 --> 00:44:10,390
of bullying and that affected her mental health.

905
00:44:13,020 --> 00:44:14,200
It's really upsetting.

906
00:44:15,500 --> 00:44:18,020
Yeah, but I mean, in a way, their

907
00:44:18,020 --> 00:44:21,560
courage has given this voice to this whole

908
00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:22,000
issue.

909
00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:26,740
Is it something everybody's talking about?

910
00:44:26,900 --> 00:44:29,140
Is it getting a lot of conversation?

911
00:44:31,100 --> 00:44:32,520
Well, not that much.

912
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:37,900
After the hearing, there were some friends that

913
00:44:37,900 --> 00:44:39,880
supported, some students that supported.

914
00:44:40,180 --> 00:44:45,160
It's just a minimal group, maybe 10 to

915
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:46,580
20 people.

916
00:44:47,020 --> 00:44:51,020
But after that, the university did give them

917
00:44:51,020 --> 00:44:52,020
the support they should.

918
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:58,100
And after the hearing, that changed a little

919
00:44:58,100 --> 00:44:58,480
bit.

920
00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:00,880
Now they have a little bit more support

921
00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:03,860
of their professors, some other students.

922
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:11,060
Let me ask, Alison, let me ask you

923
00:45:11,060 --> 00:45:11,520
this.

924
00:45:12,720 --> 00:45:17,540
Is there media coverage of this issue in

925
00:45:17,540 --> 00:45:17,840
Peru?

926
00:45:17,980 --> 00:45:19,300
I would think this would be a pretty

927
00:45:19,300 --> 00:45:20,120
good story.

928
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:25,500
Actually, there has not been a lot of

929
00:45:25,500 --> 00:45:26,280
media coverage.

930
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:28,700
You know how timing is everything.

931
00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:31,020
And right now we're experiencing a lot of

932
00:45:31,020 --> 00:45:33,300
forest fires in the Amazon jungle.

933
00:45:33,300 --> 00:45:36,420
And a lot of the protesting, there's been

934
00:45:36,420 --> 00:45:42,660
daily protesting throughout the country in defence of

935
00:45:42,660 --> 00:45:44,180
the Amazon forest.

936
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:49,620
So that's been drawing attention away from this.

937
00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:54,020
But that's why we're here today speaking with

938
00:45:54,020 --> 00:45:57,500
you and why we're spreading the word through

939
00:45:57,500 --> 00:46:01,140
the plant-based treaty website and the petition

940
00:46:01,140 --> 00:46:02,140
that they put out.

941
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:06,520
And doing everything that we can to raise

942
00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:08,120
awareness about what's happening.

943
00:46:09,060 --> 00:46:12,760
And so it's still early on in the

944
00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:13,380
process.

945
00:46:14,140 --> 00:46:17,260
But it's very, very important that we push

946
00:46:17,260 --> 00:46:19,080
through now and get this into the public

947
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:19,580
awareness.

948
00:46:20,340 --> 00:46:21,400
Were you in court?

949
00:46:22,820 --> 00:46:24,360
The hearing was virtual.

950
00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:26,720
Did you attend the hearing?

951
00:46:27,980 --> 00:46:28,580
Yes, I did.

952
00:46:28,580 --> 00:46:30,380
Okay, so how do you think it went?

953
00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:36,260
I was shocked how unprepared the other attorney

954
00:46:36,260 --> 00:46:36,600
was.

955
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:40,500
He was basically trying to dismiss the case

956
00:46:40,500 --> 00:46:41,160
right up front.

957
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:43,080
And beyond that, he was unprepared.

958
00:46:43,300 --> 00:46:46,460
He didn't even realise that there were going

959
00:46:46,460 --> 00:46:50,280
to be three international speakers defending.

960
00:46:50,500 --> 00:46:52,260
So he was unprepared in that way.

961
00:46:54,380 --> 00:46:57,320
Tell us about the three international speakers defending.

962
00:46:57,320 --> 00:47:03,200
Yes, we reached out early on to Dr.

963
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:05,500
Rao at Climate Healers.

964
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:10,720
We reached out to plant-based universities where

965
00:47:10,720 --> 00:47:15,580
Alistair Stewart supported us in giving us ideas

966
00:47:15,580 --> 00:47:18,680
on how to get international support.

967
00:47:19,180 --> 00:47:23,460
We reached out then at his recommendation to

968
00:47:23,460 --> 00:47:24,500
the Vegan Society.

969
00:47:24,500 --> 00:47:26,620
And they responded immediately.

970
00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:29,620
Dr. Jeanette Rowley, who represents the legal department

971
00:47:29,620 --> 00:47:33,100
of the Vegan Society, stepped out.

972
00:47:33,580 --> 00:47:35,060
I want to jump in.

973
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:39,300
So, Dr. Rao, and sorry to interrupt, what

974
00:47:39,300 --> 00:47:40,800
was your pitch?

975
00:47:40,940 --> 00:47:41,780
What did you say?

976
00:47:42,780 --> 00:47:47,040
Yeah, I provided them with why going vegan

977
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:49,900
is important for the environment, not just for

978
00:47:49,900 --> 00:47:52,880
climate change, but for all six planetary boundaries

979
00:47:53,620 --> 00:47:56,820
that we have transgressed in the life support

980
00:47:56,820 --> 00:47:57,700
systems of the planet.

981
00:47:57,880 --> 00:47:59,480
It's as if the planet has like six

982
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:02,740
different fires going on in different aspects of

983
00:48:02,740 --> 00:48:03,720
the life support system.

984
00:48:04,340 --> 00:48:06,200
And if the world goes vegan, we can

985
00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:07,400
quench all of them.

986
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:09,500
I mean, it's like it's a no-brainer,

987
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:09,800
right?

988
00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:11,800
Today, I was speaking at the University of

989
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:12,100
Iowa.

990
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:13,460
I'm in Iowa right now.

991
00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:16,360
And I was speaking to students.

992
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:18,960
And I just presented them the data on

993
00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:22,680
land use and, you know, how much land

994
00:48:22,680 --> 00:48:25,360
is being used for animal agriculture, how much

995
00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:26,240
food is it providing.

996
00:48:26,720 --> 00:48:27,880
So I gave them all the data, and

997
00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:30,080
then I asked them, how would you solve

998
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:30,600
this problem?

999
00:48:30,940 --> 00:48:32,840
And they immediately said, they all immediately said,

1000
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:33,540
we should go vegan.

1001
00:48:34,380 --> 00:48:36,260
It's that obvious, okay?

1002
00:48:36,540 --> 00:48:38,620
If it's so obvious to students who are

1003
00:48:38,620 --> 00:48:40,640
seeing the data for the first time, why

1004
00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:44,260
isn't it obvious to an academic institution like

1005
00:48:44,260 --> 00:48:47,120
the University of San Marcos?

1006
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:50,900
Why don't they make the same connexions that

1007
00:48:50,900 --> 00:48:51,920
the students just made?

1008
00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:55,520
So I say that it's something that we

1009
00:48:55,520 --> 00:48:58,280
are all pretending not to see, and it

1010
00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:00,800
is so self-evident, and it's time to

1011
00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:03,400
stop pretending and time to get serious about

1012
00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:05,020
addressing these environmental issues.

1013
00:49:05,660 --> 00:49:07,200
And there is one way to do it,

1014
00:49:07,240 --> 00:49:09,220
which is to go vegan as quickly as

1015
00:49:09,220 --> 00:49:09,560
possible.

1016
00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:12,000
And I've been saying this for so long.

1017
00:49:12,900 --> 00:49:14,660
It's so obvious to me, too.

1018
00:49:14,660 --> 00:49:17,360
Do we still have Steve in Dallas, Texas?

1019
00:49:18,720 --> 00:49:20,380
No, all the colours have dropped off, sorry.

1020
00:49:20,900 --> 00:49:24,380
Well, this is what I find so completely

1021
00:49:24,380 --> 00:49:28,140
just horrifying, is that the students are protesting

1022
00:49:28,140 --> 00:49:32,100
against the environmental destruction that's happening, but they're

1023
00:49:32,100 --> 00:49:35,000
not connecting the dots to their own diet.

1024
00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:39,560
So they're not paying attention to the demand

1025
00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:42,660
for vegan options in the university as much

1026
00:49:42,660 --> 00:49:45,160
as they should because they're busy protesting the

1027
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:48,000
fires that are the result of the meat

1028
00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:51,920
industry's destruction of the land, and it's very

1029
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:53,240
hard to get anybody.

1030
00:49:53,980 --> 00:49:59,100
You know, when people's so-called self-interest

1031
00:49:59,100 --> 00:50:02,380
depends on them not understanding something, it's very

1032
00:50:02,380 --> 00:50:04,060
hard to explain it to them.

1033
00:50:05,100 --> 00:50:07,360
That's really the fundamental thing.

1034
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:08,880
People don't want to know.

1035
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:11,260
They don't want to see the obvious.

1036
00:50:11,260 --> 00:50:15,720
Just like people who are alcoholics don't want

1037
00:50:15,720 --> 00:50:18,480
to see that the solution isn't drinking alcohol,

1038
00:50:18,700 --> 00:50:19,560
it's the problem.

1039
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:22,840
And so this is where we're at.

1040
00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:25,020
We only have a couple of seconds left.

1041
00:50:25,240 --> 00:50:27,100
I want to thank everybody for being on

1042
00:50:27,100 --> 00:50:27,620
this panel.

1043
00:50:28,220 --> 00:50:30,660
It's been a wild ride, but please understand,

1044
00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:32,940
people, that these folks are coming from all

1045
00:50:32,940 --> 00:50:38,180
over the world, from Peru, and they're making

1046
00:50:38,180 --> 00:50:40,580
do as best they can in terms of

1047
00:50:40,580 --> 00:50:42,940
Internet, Wi-Fi, and other technologies.

1048
00:50:42,940 --> 00:50:44,660
So we're very grateful to have them.

1049
00:50:46,220 --> 00:50:48,000
Yennefer, what would you say?

1050
00:50:48,100 --> 00:50:50,400
If you could say one thing for 30

1051
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:52,900
seconds to the judge, what would you say?

1052
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:59,520
I would tell the judge that if the

1053
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:02,560
university gives vegan options, it would be a

1054
00:51:02,560 --> 00:51:05,980
great step for the vegan society in Peru.

1055
00:51:06,500 --> 00:51:11,340
I actually do think that because the San

1056
00:51:11,340 --> 00:51:13,780
Marcos, this university is huge.

1057
00:51:14,340 --> 00:51:17,340
Everyone in Peru knows the San Marcos, so

1058
00:51:17,340 --> 00:51:19,960
it's going to pop up in news and

1059
00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:20,700
in papers.

1060
00:51:21,320 --> 00:51:23,340
Everyone is going to be talking about that.

1061
00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:26,780
So as I said, all of other institutions

1062
00:51:26,780 --> 00:51:28,700
are going to follow that step.

1063
00:51:28,700 --> 00:51:31,540
So it's a really big deal.

1064
00:51:31,820 --> 00:51:35,000
So I hope the judge understands that, that

1065
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:39,780
this is a good point of changing the

1066
00:51:39,780 --> 00:51:41,760
things how we know in Peru and start

1067
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:45,580
helping our planet, helping our health, and especially

1068
00:51:45,580 --> 00:51:46,780
for the animals, right?

1069
00:51:47,260 --> 00:51:49,640
I want to thank everybody who participated.

1070
00:51:49,980 --> 00:51:52,000
Thank you so much for jumping on, Dr.

1071
00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:52,260
Rao.

1072
00:51:52,300 --> 00:51:54,160
I know you're a very busy man, and

1073
00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:56,420
I appreciate you being here.

1074
00:51:56,420 --> 00:52:01,860
And to everybody watching, please download Unchained TV.

1075
00:52:02,140 --> 00:52:05,760
We are the world's only vegan nonprofit streaming

1076
00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:06,820
television network.

1077
00:52:07,020 --> 00:52:08,620
So it's a vegan Netflix.

1078
00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:10,840
Okay, that's the craziest thing I've ever heard.

1079
00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:12,100
I love Unchained TV.

1080
00:52:12,360 --> 00:52:12,940
Unchained.

1081
00:52:13,300 --> 00:52:14,100
Unchained TV.

1082
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Your life will change.

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It's just that easy.

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Unchained TV has all sorts of content for

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everybody.

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Unchained TV changed my life.

1087
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Unchained TV is crushing it.

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I love Unchained TV.

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Unchained TV is my go-to.

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Unchained TV.

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Who knew?