UnchainedTV: Shocking Chicken Abuse Alleged!

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It's a plague our world.

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If you want to revolutionise your health, get

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truly joyful and jump to the next phase

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of human evolution, all it takes is one

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simple choice.

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Now, here's your choice.

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Here you go, guys.

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Here you go.

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We have breaking news to bring you.

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This is a shocker.

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Breaking news about chicken abuse.

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Undercover footage just released by Animal Outlook of

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chickens being abused in a California factory farm,

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Animal Outlook is calling on the Fresno County

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District Attorney's Office to file criminal animal cruelty

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charges against the corporation, Foster Farms, which is

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the major poultry producer in California, major supplier

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to the big supermarkets.

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This video shows multiple instances of forklifts driving

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over and hitting live chickens, chickens being thrown,

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chickens being kicked and grabbed by their wings.

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Foster Farms says all of its chicken farms

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are American Humane Association certified and that the

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chickens it raises enjoy the five freedoms, including

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freedom from discomfort and freedom from injury, pain,

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or disease.

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Animal Outlook says its investigation reveals a stark

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contrast showing anything but humane care and freedom

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from discomfort, injury, and fear.

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Now, Foster Farms just moments ago released a

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statement that we saw.

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We will read it to you.

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They are invited on any time to respond

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to Animal Outlook's allegations.

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And right now, we are delighted to speak

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to Animal Outlook's new executive director, Ben Williamson,

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about this blockbuster breaking news as well as

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his fascinating history as a leader in the

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animal rights movement.

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Again, this footage is from Animal Outlook.

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Undercover investigative footage just released, a blockbuster breaking

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news story.

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And I believe we are the first news

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organisation to be showing this footage.

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I wanna go straight out to Ben.

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Ben, what was your reaction just as a

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human being when your undercover investigator first showed

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you this footage?

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Hi, Jane.

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Thanks so much for having me on the

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show.

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My reaction hopefully is the same as everybody

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who watches this and to think, I can't

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believe this goes on.

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We know from doing countless undercover investigations, we

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know that every time we do this kind

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of thing, we see something that we expect

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to see rough handling, we expect to see

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abuse, but some of these things like the

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forklifts driving over the birds, the distances these

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workers were throwing the animals into the cages

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at, when they should be, I mean, they

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shouldn't be there at all, but if you're

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going to do that, place them delicately inside,

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but they just showed no, they showed complete

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disregard for the lives of these animals.

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And you can't be helped but be gobsmacked

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by the cruelty that you see in the

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video.

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Now, tell us the timeline.

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We're going to immediately read the statement from

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Foster Farms, but what was the timeline here?

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Over what period was this occurring?

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The investigator went undercover at a catching crew

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in three counties in Central Valley, California between

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20 of June of this year and 24th

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of July.

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So they were in the field for about

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a month and they went to three counties,

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multiple farms as part of this catching crew.

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They were working sometimes 14, 18 hour shifts

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in the middle of the night, sometimes in

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a hundred degree weather.

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And as you see the footage that they

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captured whilst in the field really shows that

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the workers are under enormous stress and unfortunately

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they're putting the birds through even more agony

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by just wilful, egregious cruelty that you can

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see.

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It's really, really shocking.

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And you know what?

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We're going to play this multiple times.

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Excuse me.

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We're going to play this multiple times today

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because essentially, you know, a picture equals a

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thousand words or a million words.

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You can describe this.

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You can go on and on to basically

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try to paint a picture.

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But when you actually see it, there is

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no mistaking what you're seeing.

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So I just want to say, Ben, that

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I immediately, as a journalist, when I saw

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this a couple of days ago, tried to

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get the other side of the story.

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As a journalist, I always try to get

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the other side of the story.

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I'm calling the operator now at Foster Farms

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General Enquiries, trying to get a response.

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I've already written to the company listed as

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a PR firm, as well as written to

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General Enquiries, trying to get a response.

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Hey, yeah, my name is Jane Velez Mitchell.

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I'm a reporter for Unchained TV and I'm

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trying to get to the press department to

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get a response to an undercover investigation released

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by Animal Outlook, alleging multiple instances of cruelty

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caught on tape, which they have presented reportedly

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to the Fresno County District Attorney's Office, requesting

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animal cruelty charges be filed against the corporation.

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So I'm trying to get the other side

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of the story.

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I'm trying to get a response from Foster

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Farms.

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Can you transfer me to your press department

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so I can talk to somebody?

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So I did not get a response.

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In fact, I checked just moments before air,

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just to make sure.

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However, also moments before air, Foster Farms did

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reportedly issue a statement through a poultry publication.

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And let's read the statement from Foster Farms.

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It says, the headline is Foster Farms response

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to animal cruelty situation.

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On October 8th, this is the publication talking,

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the company released a statement that said it

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took immediate action when it learned that broiler

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chicken catchers were mistreating the birds at a

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facility in Fresno County, California.

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So this is from the company.

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Quote, four weeks ago, Foster Farms uncovered a

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few employees had intentionally violated our animal welfare

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and training standards and procedures.

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Per our zero tolerance policy, we immediately terminated

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those individuals and referred them to Fresno County

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Law Enforcement where they will be prosecuted to

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the fullest extent of the law, said Randy

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Boyce, General Counsel for Foster Farms.

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Put simply, the conduct was counter to everything

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we stand for as a company and our

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actions ensure those responsible are held accountable.

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So now I wanna go back to the

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head of the organisation that published that undercover

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investigation, Ben Williamson, what is your response to

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Foster Farms response?

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Well, when I first read that statement, I

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thought, okay, they are acknowledging that there is

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cruelty involved.

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They're acknowledging that there are individuals responsible who

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have now been fired and that they themselves

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are calling for the Fresno District Attorney to

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file charges against those individuals.

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What they were obviously doing as well was

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deflecting any criticism against them as a company,

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saying that they will instead do some retraining,

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change some management supervision practises and trying to

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deflect any attention.

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But on closer reading of the statement, they're

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trying to actually distance themselves from the video.

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This might be a completely separate instance of

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cruelty that they're actually purporting here.

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They're not actually linking what they've discovered as

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intentional violations of their animal welfare and training

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standards to our video.

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So it could be a completely different incident.

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We also have no way of verifying that

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the individuals who have been fired purportedly are

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the same individuals featured in our video.

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So we have a lot of questions about

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their statement.

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Again, we're glad that they seem to be

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acknowledging that animal cruelty has no place in

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farms.

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But the truth is, Jane, you and I

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both know that animal cruelty is a part

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of animal agriculture.

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The amount of hours that these people are

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working, the amount of birds on the farm,

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there's 15,000 birds here.

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You can't ensure that any of those birds

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are living a good life.

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And it's just running over them with forklifts

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and backing up over them with forklifts, throwing

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them into these cages, as we can see

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on the video.

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It's horrible, it's egregious, and Foster Farms has

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to bear culpability on this.

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Foster Farms is unique amongst many animal agriculture

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companies.

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It employs all of these individuals.

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They're not contracted out.

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They're not contract growers.

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They're not contract catching company.

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These are all Foster Farms employees.

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They own the farms, they own the birds,

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and they employ the individuals.

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So Foster Farms surely has some corporate responsibility

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here.

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What's more, California law is fairly unique in

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that not only does it suggest that corporations

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should be held accountable for acts of animal

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cruelty involved on their farms, they also invite

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it.

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They say corporations must be held responsible for

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the actions of their employees.

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So we think we're in a pretty good

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place.

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We think that the Fresno DA will pick

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this up and will file the cruelty charges.

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We've alleged 206 total charges against Foster Farms,

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against the workers, against the supervisors, and we're

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hopeful that the DA will agree with us

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and move this forward.

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So let me ask you the timeline that

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this occurred, because sometimes companies say, well, this

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is taken out of context.

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These are a few bad apples.

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That's essentially what they're sort of saying.

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They're saying that the people who are doing

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this, this specific individuals are going to be

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prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

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However, if this is happening over, let's say

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a month, and that's what I wanna check

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with you, wouldn't the people who are the

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supervisors see some of this?

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I mean, if you're running over chickens with

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a forklift and there's any supervisor there, I

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would assume that they would ultimately see that.

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What is your take on that?

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Yeah, absolutely.

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You're right on the timeline.

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It happened over a month, but it happened

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over a month between June and July of

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this year.

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We could have picked any month of the

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year.

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We could have picked any farm.

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This kind of stuff is endemic to animal

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agriculture.

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The number of birds on these farms, the

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speed at which they work, throwing of these

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animals, backing up over them with forklifts.

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It's the kind of thing that is horrible

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to watch, but unfortunately is endemic and a

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part of animal agriculture.

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You simply cannot remove the animal cruelty from

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animal agriculture.

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You're right.

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The companies, we always see this response.

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We always see companies say, this is a

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few bad apples.

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We're retraining.

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It's rare that they call for the prosecution

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themselves.

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That's a step forward, but they also attack

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the people who put out this video.

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They want to talk about that we're a

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vegan organisation and we're just trying to get

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people to go vegan.

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I think when you see the footage, it's

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hard to make any separate inference than the

272
00:11:57,040 --> 00:11:58,540
best thing to do is to leave animals

273
00:11:58,540 --> 00:11:59,180
off your plate.

274
00:11:59,980 --> 00:12:01,940
So we see this response all the time,

275
00:12:02,060 --> 00:12:05,160
but when you keep seeing the same cruelty

276
00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:07,700
over and over again, then it's not just

277
00:12:07,700 --> 00:12:08,560
a few bad apples.

278
00:12:08,780 --> 00:12:10,900
It's endemic in the animal agriculture industry.

279
00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:14,660
So where do we go from here?

280
00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:16,220
And by the way, I want to say,

281
00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:18,320
I invite Foster Farms on anytime.

282
00:12:18,940 --> 00:12:20,680
Again, we tried to reach them.

283
00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:21,860
They didn't respond to me.

284
00:12:22,220 --> 00:12:26,260
And I reached out approximately six times, but

285
00:12:26,260 --> 00:12:28,120
then we did get that statement that they

286
00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:30,480
gave, which I'll put up here to the

287
00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:32,560
poultry magazine or the poultry publication.

288
00:12:32,900 --> 00:12:36,100
But we do invite Foster Farms on anytime.

289
00:12:36,300 --> 00:12:38,720
We would love to dialogue with you.

290
00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:41,000
We would love to discuss this with you.

291
00:12:42,020 --> 00:12:45,580
You are reportedly the largest poultry producer in

292
00:12:45,580 --> 00:12:52,140
California and you supply chickens to the biggest

293
00:12:52,140 --> 00:12:52,900
supermarkets.

294
00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:54,820
I mean, I saw the list of supermarkets.

295
00:12:55,020 --> 00:12:57,140
It's the supermarkets that everybody shops at.

296
00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:01,680
And so I have to ask you, Ben,

297
00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:04,260
ultimately this is a consumer issue.

298
00:13:04,560 --> 00:13:06,300
I mean, if people are watching this and

299
00:13:06,300 --> 00:13:09,520
it's upsetting them, and then they go out

300
00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:12,320
and they buy the chickens, they're the ones

301
00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:15,000
paying for the production of these chickens.

302
00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:18,140
Yeah, they might not be the people directly

303
00:13:18,140 --> 00:13:19,900
committing the cruelty to animals, but they are

304
00:13:19,900 --> 00:13:22,460
paying the people who are committing the cruelty.

305
00:13:23,620 --> 00:13:25,240
And so the best thing that any individual,

306
00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:26,880
any of your viewers can do, which I'm

307
00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:29,840
sure they do, is to stop feeding animals,

308
00:13:30,020 --> 00:13:30,240
period.

309
00:13:31,300 --> 00:13:34,640
You're right about Foster Farms and their customers.

310
00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:37,980
They supply Albertsons and Walmart and Kroger, among

311
00:13:37,980 --> 00:13:39,460
others that listed on their website.

312
00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:42,920
And I think the store should also be

313
00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:44,440
taking some responsibility here.

314
00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:46,740
They should be saying to Foster Farms, you

315
00:13:46,740 --> 00:13:47,640
know, this is unacceptable.

316
00:13:47,900 --> 00:13:49,980
We will not stop your products anymore.

317
00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:53,420
But we know it's ultimately a business decision

318
00:13:53,420 --> 00:13:56,500
when you are paying very little amount of

319
00:13:56,500 --> 00:14:01,160
money per bird and then you're forcing people

320
00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:02,880
to put it on their plates.

321
00:14:03,500 --> 00:14:08,460
That's unfortunately the reality, is that it's a

322
00:14:08,460 --> 00:14:11,700
problem where the costs are externalised to the

323
00:14:11,700 --> 00:14:12,480
animals themselves.

324
00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:18,000
People paying to eat chicken, it's the animals

325
00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:19,620
that eventually pay the ultimate price.

326
00:14:20,340 --> 00:14:21,980
And this is the way that animals are

327
00:14:21,980 --> 00:14:22,700
farmed in this country.

328
00:14:23,900 --> 00:14:27,640
Well, I wanna say that at Unchained TV,

329
00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:31,260
you know, and there you are, right there

330
00:14:31,260 --> 00:14:33,380
on Unchained TV behind me.

331
00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:37,340
If you're watching, we're a streaming network that

332
00:14:37,340 --> 00:14:39,360
is available for free download.

333
00:14:39,540 --> 00:14:44,420
We're a 501C3 nonprofit available for free download

334
00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:47,840
on any cell phone, just put in Unchained

335
00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:51,920
TV, on any television with an Apple TV

336
00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:54,060
device, a Amazon Fire Stick or a Roku

337
00:14:54,060 --> 00:14:54,480
device.

338
00:14:54,620 --> 00:14:56,880
We're also available on all Samsung TVs and

339
00:14:56,880 --> 00:14:58,720
soon to be all LG TVs.

340
00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:03,620
But we just commissioned a documentary done by

341
00:15:03,620 --> 00:15:05,440
a woman who runs a chicken sanctuary.

342
00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:08,820
And you have to watch, it's called Meet

343
00:15:08,820 --> 00:15:09,580
the Chickens.

344
00:15:10,100 --> 00:15:14,960
And it's really, really fascinating because it shows

345
00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:17,220
that chickens, which a lot of people just

346
00:15:17,220 --> 00:15:19,900
think of as sort of like a nugget

347
00:15:19,900 --> 00:15:25,180
are individuals and they have very unique personalities

348
00:15:25,180 --> 00:15:26,140
each and every one of them.

349
00:15:26,140 --> 00:15:27,960
Like everything I thought about them was wrong.

350
00:15:28,220 --> 00:15:34,360
And I think that as a society, everything

351
00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:37,200
that we think about them, if we think

352
00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:39,180
about them at all is wrong.

353
00:15:40,220 --> 00:15:47,980
They are all individuals with unique personalities, unique

354
00:15:47,980 --> 00:15:54,480
faces and voices and preferences, likes and dislikes,

355
00:15:54,900 --> 00:15:56,660
little idiosyncrasies.

356
00:15:57,500 --> 00:16:01,080
They're just as individual as our dogs and

357
00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:01,720
our cats.

358
00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:07,600
And I think if society knew who they

359
00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:12,340
really are, we would treat them a lot

360
00:16:12,340 --> 00:16:13,400
better than we do.

361
00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:19,700
We currently have 25 chickens here, all of

362
00:16:19,700 --> 00:16:20,320
them rescues.

363
00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:25,180
Most of them are Cornish crosses, these big

364
00:16:25,180 --> 00:16:26,040
white birds.

365
00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:33,320
They are considered meat birds, broiler chickens.

366
00:16:33,900 --> 00:16:35,620
We kill about 9 billion of them a

367
00:16:35,620 --> 00:16:37,260
year in this country alone.

368
00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:39,720
So it's not really an overstatement to say

369
00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:41,620
that it's a miracle that any of them

370
00:16:41,620 --> 00:16:42,460
have made it here.

371
00:16:43,260 --> 00:16:46,820
Oh man, this documentary and it's not graphic

372
00:16:46,820 --> 00:16:50,120
unlike the video we're showing you today, but

373
00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:51,040
please check it out.

374
00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:54,940
It's on Unchained TV and it was done

375
00:16:54,940 --> 00:16:56,760
by a woman who has actually, the woman

376
00:16:56,760 --> 00:16:58,160
you're looking at, Tracy Glover.

377
00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:02,620
She doesn't have experience as a documentarian, but

378
00:17:02,620 --> 00:17:06,180
we just gave her a mic and a

379
00:17:06,180 --> 00:17:09,460
stabiliser and she pulled off this really touching

380
00:17:10,220 --> 00:17:14,160
half hour documentary about these individual chickens that

381
00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:17,480
she has rescued, each with their own story.

382
00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:21,720
And as a human being, it's just then

383
00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:24,240
when you see what is happening to these

384
00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:28,560
chickens in industrialised factory farming, wow, it just

385
00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:36,940
makes it even more difficult to really comprehend

386
00:17:36,940 --> 00:17:40,800
the magnitude of what we're talking about, Ben.

387
00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:45,800
I mean, the magnitude, the number of individuals,

388
00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:49,080
it's mind boggling.

389
00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:53,340
Yeah, I mean, we're talking about 15,000

390
00:17:53,340 --> 00:17:54,580
birds on this one farm.

391
00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:56,800
We know that the number of birds in

392
00:17:56,800 --> 00:17:58,460
farms can go up to the several hundred

393
00:17:58,460 --> 00:17:59,000
thousands.

394
00:17:59,660 --> 00:18:04,500
And then ultimately, as you said, 9 billion

395
00:18:04,500 --> 00:18:07,460
birds every year in the United States.

396
00:18:08,140 --> 00:18:11,520
So it's an unimaginable scale really.

397
00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:13,520
And we're very lucky in that we're able

398
00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:15,820
to go into these places a few times

399
00:18:15,820 --> 00:18:19,180
a year and really document what happens there

400
00:18:19,180 --> 00:18:21,700
for people who, quite obviously, they want to

401
00:18:21,700 --> 00:18:24,360
hide the truth from the consumers.

402
00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:26,320
We're able to go in and take this

403
00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:29,540
footage and then hopefully get charges put against

404
00:18:29,540 --> 00:18:32,800
the people responsible and the corporations responsible, but

405
00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:36,020
it doesn't happen enough because we're still not

406
00:18:36,020 --> 00:18:39,320
able to get this message through necessarily to

407
00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:39,780
everybody.

408
00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:43,000
There's a vast gap between what people think

409
00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:45,560
these animals' lives are like and the reality

410
00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:47,620
that we show every time we do one

411
00:18:47,620 --> 00:18:48,500
of these investigations.

412
00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:50,920
And it's through people like you, Jane, and

413
00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:54,120
your show, and everyone who's watching, it's really

414
00:18:54,120 --> 00:18:55,680
up to all of us to help share

415
00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:59,040
these investigations, tell people who don't otherwise know

416
00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:01,580
just what goes on here and show them

417
00:19:01,580 --> 00:19:02,080
for themselves.

418
00:19:02,140 --> 00:19:04,000
Because I think seeing is really believing.

419
00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:06,580
And once you see this, it's really hard

420
00:19:06,580 --> 00:19:09,620
to imagine that there's anything else other than

421
00:19:09,620 --> 00:19:10,620
this kind of stuff going on.

422
00:19:11,460 --> 00:19:13,240
So tell us about the person.

423
00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:15,060
I know you can't reveal his or her

424
00:19:15,060 --> 00:19:16,900
identity, but tell us about the person who

425
00:19:16,900 --> 00:19:17,860
recorded all this.

426
00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:20,360
They have to go in there day after

427
00:19:20,360 --> 00:19:23,520
day and essentially, what?

428
00:19:24,360 --> 00:19:26,140
They are working there?

429
00:19:26,380 --> 00:19:27,260
What happens?

430
00:19:28,140 --> 00:19:30,500
Yeah, they're part of the catching crew.

431
00:19:31,700 --> 00:19:33,240
Obviously, I don't want to give up too

432
00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:34,920
much about how we conduct these things for

433
00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:37,720
their safety and for the integrity of the

434
00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:39,100
campaign, of the investigations.

435
00:19:39,900 --> 00:19:41,680
But yeah, it's a horrible thing to have

436
00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:45,180
to see this and not react as any

437
00:19:45,180 --> 00:19:48,420
human being surely would with any sympathy in

438
00:19:48,420 --> 00:19:49,540
caring for these birds.

439
00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:51,680
The most important thing is that they document

440
00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:54,500
the cruelty, that we're able to press charges

441
00:19:54,500 --> 00:19:58,260
and hold people and corporations accountable for what

442
00:19:58,260 --> 00:20:00,100
they're seeing and what they're being asked to

443
00:20:00,100 --> 00:20:00,780
be part of.

444
00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:04,920
And ultimately, we'll save more animals that way.

445
00:20:06,060 --> 00:20:08,840
But yeah, it's a horrifying thing to have

446
00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:10,440
to do this, to keep up a pretence,

447
00:20:11,100 --> 00:20:13,560
to be party to it, to stand by

448
00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:15,780
and not do anything about it other than

449
00:20:15,780 --> 00:20:18,220
film and document and record and take notes.

450
00:20:18,580 --> 00:20:20,720
All of these notes, all of the footage

451
00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:24,340
helps build the case, not only for people

452
00:20:24,340 --> 00:20:26,360
to go vegan, but also for the law

453
00:20:26,360 --> 00:20:28,660
enforcement to do their job and hold people

454
00:20:28,660 --> 00:20:29,020
accountable.

455
00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:33,780
And what's really interesting is, and I want

456
00:20:33,780 --> 00:20:35,980
to say, we invite foster farms on any

457
00:20:35,980 --> 00:20:37,200
time to respond further.

458
00:20:37,260 --> 00:20:38,240
We've read your statement.

459
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:42,500
Now, this is off their website, American Humane

460
00:20:42,500 --> 00:20:43,940
Association certified.

461
00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:46,480
They say they're certified by the American Humane

462
00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:50,080
Association and that the chickens they raise enjoy

463
00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:53,060
the five freedoms, freedom from hunger or thirst,

464
00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:56,640
freedom from discomfort, freedom from injury, pain or

465
00:20:56,640 --> 00:21:00,240
disease, freedom from cages, freedom from fear and

466
00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:00,620
distress.

467
00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:06,840
What is your response to foster farms' five

468
00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:07,340
freedoms?

469
00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:09,680
I mean, it's a bit of a joke,

470
00:21:09,700 --> 00:21:10,340
isn't it really?

471
00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:12,320
There's no way that you can see the

472
00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:15,720
footage of the birds being thrown into the

473
00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:18,860
cages, being run over by forklift trucks and

474
00:21:18,860 --> 00:21:21,900
then think that they're free from discomfort or

475
00:21:21,900 --> 00:21:22,300
injury.

476
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:26,440
Also, we know that the investigator recorded that

477
00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:28,460
the temperatures exceeded 100 degrees.

478
00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:31,600
You know, they're not free from thirst or

479
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:35,280
hunger or discomfort for those reasons as well.

480
00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:37,620
So yeah, I mean, it's a bit of

481
00:21:37,620 --> 00:21:38,300
a joke.

482
00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:40,760
It's a bit of humane washing.

483
00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:44,200
And, you know, unfortunately it will probably continue.

484
00:21:44,420 --> 00:21:47,120
It will probably, American Humane will, might come

485
00:21:47,120 --> 00:21:48,860
out and say something similar, like this is

486
00:21:48,860 --> 00:21:51,720
horrible, we don't condone this, but then very

487
00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:53,280
little is going to happen as a result.

488
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:54,620
So that's why it's up to all of

489
00:21:54,620 --> 00:21:58,200
us to take action ourselves and to be

490
00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:00,320
responsible for making sure this cruelty doesn't go

491
00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:04,000
on by, you know, forcing these corporations to

492
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:05,980
stop the business of chicken farming.

493
00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:09,220
Have you reached out to the American Humane

494
00:22:09,220 --> 00:22:12,820
Association and shown them this video and said,

495
00:22:13,140 --> 00:22:17,820
hey, you're certifying this company, this, I mean,

496
00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:18,540
have you talked to them?

497
00:22:20,100 --> 00:22:23,940
I wouldn't know what the investigators did before

498
00:22:23,940 --> 00:22:25,600
I got here a week and a half

499
00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:29,600
ago, but I can tell you that American

500
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:34,260
Humane will likely respond at least internally to

501
00:22:34,260 --> 00:22:35,700
say that this is horrible.

502
00:22:35,860 --> 00:22:37,720
It doesn't conform to our standards of the

503
00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:38,480
five freedoms.

504
00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:40,840
It doesn't conform to the standards of healthy,

505
00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:43,180
enriching lives for these birds.

506
00:22:43,660 --> 00:22:45,260
But how many times do you have to

507
00:22:45,260 --> 00:22:48,360
see such a thing before you say, well,

508
00:22:48,360 --> 00:22:51,060
actually this is endemic and the kind of

509
00:22:51,060 --> 00:22:53,240
businesses that are taking our label and using

510
00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:57,060
our brand as a humane shield before you

511
00:22:57,060 --> 00:22:59,100
say enough is enough and we're not going

512
00:22:59,100 --> 00:23:03,120
to certify foster farms or, you know, any

513
00:23:03,120 --> 00:23:04,440
of these types of businesses again.

514
00:23:05,460 --> 00:23:07,680
Yeah, now, Tracy Winter Glover, who is the

515
00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:09,920
person who did the documentary, Meet the Chickens,

516
00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:11,540
which I really urge you to watch on

517
00:23:11,540 --> 00:23:14,300
Unchained TV, she says, people will say this

518
00:23:14,300 --> 00:23:16,540
is an anomaly, but the truth is it's

519
00:23:16,540 --> 00:23:19,040
the norm, just unbearably heartbreaking.

520
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:21,440
You know, what's your response to that?

521
00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:24,260
Because again, if we go back to the

522
00:23:24,260 --> 00:23:28,820
statement by the company, they're saying, you know,

523
00:23:29,710 --> 00:23:31,140
this is not acceptable.

524
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:34,520
We reported the people doing this to authorities

525
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:36,400
and they're going to be prosecuted.

526
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:40,460
Yeah, I think again, it's a shirking responsibility

527
00:23:40,460 --> 00:23:42,280
as a corporation.

528
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:45,460
You know, these individuals were employed by foster

529
00:23:45,460 --> 00:23:45,960
farms.

530
00:23:46,460 --> 00:23:49,300
The birds were owned, so to speak, by

531
00:23:49,300 --> 00:23:50,040
foster farms.

532
00:23:50,120 --> 00:23:52,480
The farms were owned by foster farms.

533
00:23:52,910 --> 00:23:54,580
To say that this is just a few

534
00:23:54,580 --> 00:23:57,400
bad apples, it's your company that is not

535
00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:01,860
putting in the supervision necessary to safeguard the

536
00:24:01,860 --> 00:24:04,480
health and lives of these animals, to make

537
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:06,260
sure that these things don't happen to them.

538
00:24:06,900 --> 00:24:09,360
You can't just say they didn't play by

539
00:24:09,360 --> 00:24:09,940
our rules.

540
00:24:10,260 --> 00:24:12,560
If you're not enforcing your rules, then you

541
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:14,780
are responsible for what happens underneath them.

542
00:24:15,300 --> 00:24:18,360
So you took this video to the Fresno

543
00:24:18,360 --> 00:24:20,560
County District Attorney's Office.

544
00:24:21,260 --> 00:24:24,280
And, you know, we know historically, and there's

545
00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:26,840
cases up and down California and other parts

546
00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:29,940
of the nation where the district attorneys refuse

547
00:24:29,940 --> 00:24:31,000
to prosecute.

548
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:33,840
They might sometimes prosecute the individuals.

549
00:24:34,540 --> 00:24:36,480
It seems like foster farms was saying they

550
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:37,740
will be prosecuted.

551
00:24:39,820 --> 00:24:41,420
I would think that would be up to

552
00:24:41,420 --> 00:24:43,680
the district attorney to make that announcement, but

553
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:45,000
maybe he or she will.

554
00:24:45,580 --> 00:24:48,340
But will they go after the corporation?

555
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:49,880
Did you ask them to go?

556
00:24:50,580 --> 00:24:52,980
After the corporation and filed charges against the

557
00:24:52,980 --> 00:24:55,120
corporation, and if so, what was their response?

558
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:56,660
We did.

559
00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:59,260
Foster Farms, we believe, is culpable for the

560
00:24:59,260 --> 00:25:00,680
actions of its employees here.

561
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:03,980
And California, as I said, is pretty unique.

562
00:25:04,140 --> 00:25:07,700
It has a good, relatively to some other

563
00:25:07,700 --> 00:25:10,980
states, a good penal code, which allows for

564
00:25:10,980 --> 00:25:12,820
prosecutions to be brought up against, in fact,

565
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:18,000
invites prosecutions to be brought against companies for

566
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:20,440
the behaviour of its employees.

567
00:25:21,220 --> 00:25:23,060
So we think the DA will agree with

568
00:25:23,060 --> 00:25:26,560
us and agree that Foster Farms is culpable

569
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:29,240
and not really buy what Foster Farms is

570
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:31,200
selling here, which is trying to say it's

571
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:33,420
the action of a few individuals that this

572
00:25:33,420 --> 00:25:35,300
situation has been dealt with, we've fired them,

573
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:36,060
we're retraining.

574
00:25:37,060 --> 00:25:39,380
You know, that's not good enough.

575
00:25:39,860 --> 00:25:43,040
And just because, well, even if it was

576
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:44,840
no longer going on, even if the retraining

577
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:47,900
does work, it still happened.

578
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:51,060
And Foster Farms and its employees need to

579
00:25:51,060 --> 00:25:52,940
be held accountable for the abuses that we've

580
00:25:52,940 --> 00:25:53,180
seen.

581
00:25:54,120 --> 00:25:56,100
So what did the DA say?

582
00:25:56,340 --> 00:25:57,920
Were you able to have a discussion with

583
00:25:57,920 --> 00:25:58,880
anybody from that office?

584
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:00,620
The case is ongoing.

585
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:02,680
We're in communication with the DA.

586
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:05,200
So we're just awaiting the next steps on

587
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:05,620
their behalf.

588
00:26:05,820 --> 00:26:07,900
And as I say, we're confident that they

589
00:26:07,900 --> 00:26:12,080
will agree that there have been egregious violations

590
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:15,640
of California's cruelty to animals statutes here.

591
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:18,960
And that Foster Farms, its employees, its supervisors

592
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:19,920
are all responsible.

593
00:26:21,700 --> 00:26:25,200
So do you ever get to dialogue with

594
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:26,140
Foster Farms?

595
00:26:26,580 --> 00:26:29,880
I mean, I tried, as you saw, calling,

596
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:32,840
emailing, filling out a form on the website,

597
00:26:33,360 --> 00:26:35,280
did not get a response.

598
00:26:35,380 --> 00:26:38,940
Now, again, I invite Foster Farms on anytime

599
00:26:38,940 --> 00:26:40,120
to respond further.

600
00:26:40,540 --> 00:26:42,820
They did issue a statement, we read it.

601
00:26:42,820 --> 00:26:46,860
And so do you ever get to dialogue

602
00:26:46,860 --> 00:26:47,900
with Foster Farms?

603
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:52,060
So I've held a number of positions and

604
00:26:52,060 --> 00:26:53,820
maybe we'll talk a little bit more about

605
00:26:53,820 --> 00:26:55,120
my background in the past.

606
00:26:58,180 --> 00:27:03,000
So working for other organisations that try to

607
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:06,040
do a bit more corporate engagement, we see

608
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:09,260
these organisations, we see chicken companies put up

609
00:27:09,260 --> 00:27:11,000
a wall to anyone in the animal protection

610
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:11,420
movement.

611
00:27:11,420 --> 00:27:13,680
They are just not interested in what we

612
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:14,240
have to say.

613
00:27:14,380 --> 00:27:18,300
They use their pay to play humane shields

614
00:27:18,820 --> 00:27:21,220
and they try to do everything that they

615
00:27:21,220 --> 00:27:24,360
can through deceptive marketing practises to convince everyone

616
00:27:24,360 --> 00:27:26,020
that everything's rosy.

617
00:27:27,100 --> 00:27:29,540
And as far as engaging with the animal

618
00:27:29,540 --> 00:27:32,880
protection community, it's just not something that they

619
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:35,420
welcome and that they're receptive to.

620
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:38,640
They will occasionally try to make piecemeal changes

621
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:40,520
and get the support of some people in

622
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:41,820
the animal protection community.

623
00:27:42,500 --> 00:27:46,120
But as far as people like myself who

624
00:27:46,120 --> 00:27:48,160
are calling for people to stop eating animals,

625
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:51,080
it's not in their business interest to necessarily

626
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:51,760
engage.

627
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:54,840
And so they'd rather just stonewall us, spend

628
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:57,220
a lot more money on marketing than we

629
00:27:57,220 --> 00:27:58,900
have in our total operating budgets.

630
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:01,720
This is a $3 billion company, as you

631
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:03,120
said, the largest in California.

632
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:08,280
They can just purport through marketing efforts that

633
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:10,380
they're doing something completely different to what we're

634
00:28:10,380 --> 00:28:12,760
able to expose on a month-long investigation.

635
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:16,060
So no, they're not very receptive to engagement

636
00:28:16,060 --> 00:28:18,040
at all in my experience.

637
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:19,980
What about fines?

638
00:28:20,180 --> 00:28:22,800
Somebody said here, the company needs to be

639
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:23,460
heavily fined.

640
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:24,640
Is this regulated?

641
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:27,980
So is it really just about the DA

642
00:28:27,980 --> 00:28:31,460
making an arbitrary decision as to whether or

643
00:28:31,460 --> 00:28:33,700
not to file criminal charges?

644
00:28:34,260 --> 00:28:36,340
What regulations are being broken?

645
00:28:36,780 --> 00:28:39,880
And what about legal action that is not

646
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:41,040
criminal on the civil side?

647
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:43,780
Yeah, it's all a possibility.

648
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:46,220
The first port of call is for the

649
00:28:46,220 --> 00:28:48,440
DA to get involved and take it on

650
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:49,840
from a government perspective.

651
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:52,980
There are other legal avenues open if that

652
00:28:52,980 --> 00:28:53,680
doesn't happen.

653
00:28:54,260 --> 00:28:55,900
Fines are one of the punishments that we

654
00:28:55,900 --> 00:28:58,020
see sometimes doled out.

655
00:28:58,260 --> 00:28:59,140
Certainly not enough.

656
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:02,140
As you say, often the prosecutors just won't

657
00:29:02,140 --> 00:29:05,160
pick up the case and use some really

658
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,880
poor reasoning as far as we're concerned to

659
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:12,260
shirk responsibility themselves and not hold these corporations

660
00:29:12,260 --> 00:29:12,900
to account.

661
00:29:13,580 --> 00:29:17,440
Fines, penalties, sentences, bans from working with animals

662
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:20,200
are other ways that people have been held

663
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:21,760
responsible in the past.

664
00:29:21,900 --> 00:29:24,360
But I don't think anyone can kind of

665
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:28,260
see this, the footage that we've documented and

666
00:29:28,260 --> 00:29:33,400
say that there's really much punishment that can

667
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:34,920
fit the crime of what they've put these

668
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:35,400
birds through.

669
00:29:36,020 --> 00:29:39,380
So one of our commenters who happens to

670
00:29:39,380 --> 00:29:42,040
be watching on YouTube, I believe, can I

671
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:44,080
support while still eating meat or will you

672
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:44,460
hate me?

673
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:45,380
What's your response?

674
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:47,920
I don't hate anybody.

675
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:53,820
It's a personal journey going vegan and food

676
00:29:53,820 --> 00:29:56,900
is such a personal thing with so many

677
00:29:56,900 --> 00:30:01,660
different social societal factors involved in people's decision

678
00:30:01,660 --> 00:30:01,960
-making.

679
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:04,760
We think that when people see the kind

680
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:07,040
of footage that our investigators are able to

681
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:08,840
capture, when they learn more about the issues,

682
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:11,460
there's no other conclusion than to go vegan.

683
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:16,200
But we know that food preferences evolve over

684
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:20,280
time and that people's vegan journey can be

685
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:22,400
long and they can come at it from

686
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:23,620
many different ways.

687
00:30:24,100 --> 00:30:26,600
But ultimately, you as a consumer, if you

688
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:28,760
don't want this kind of thing to happen,

689
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:30,640
the only real thing you can do is

690
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:33,240
to not participate in animal agriculture by leaving

691
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:34,120
animals off your plate.

692
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:37,120
And if you are just joining us, we've

693
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:39,700
been reporting breaking news.

694
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:42,180
I believe Unchained TV is the first news

695
00:30:42,180 --> 00:30:47,480
organisation to put out this video that was

696
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,840
obtained by Animal Outlook over this past summer.

697
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:53,740
An undercover investigator was there for about a

698
00:30:53,740 --> 00:30:57,520
month at a foster farm's facility and saw

699
00:30:57,520 --> 00:30:59,120
some pretty horrifying things.

700
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:04,040
There's a forklift running over live birds and

701
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:06,760
birds were left alive, suffering.

702
00:31:07,220 --> 00:31:09,040
You can see what's going on here.

703
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:15,900
In one instance, a driver crashes forklift into

704
00:31:15,900 --> 00:31:16,540
a building.

705
00:31:16,860 --> 00:31:19,760
I mean, these are drivers who have these

706
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:20,420
chickens.

707
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:24,700
I honestly, I don't really have any words

708
00:31:25,100 --> 00:31:27,280
for this video to describe it.

709
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:29,160
Sure, you could sit there and describe it,

710
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:34,380
but it's like, to me personally, my feeling,

711
00:31:34,540 --> 00:31:35,620
it's like watching a horror show.

712
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:40,200
And this is California's largest poultry producer.

713
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:41,660
I wanna say that again.

714
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:45,400
This is California's largest poultry producer.

715
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:48,140
When you're going to the supermarkets, the biggest

716
00:31:48,140 --> 00:31:51,300
supermarkets in California, there's a very good chance

717
00:31:51,300 --> 00:31:54,780
if you're getting chicken that came from this

718
00:31:54,780 --> 00:31:55,240
situation.

719
00:31:55,740 --> 00:32:00,540
So, you know, here's the thing though.

720
00:32:00,980 --> 00:32:02,440
I wanna say this.

721
00:32:03,260 --> 00:32:05,840
We, I personally, as a journalist who has

722
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:09,060
been doing this now for several decades, I

723
00:32:09,060 --> 00:32:13,180
have covered situations like this over and over

724
00:32:13,180 --> 00:32:15,400
and over again, various companies.

725
00:32:16,060 --> 00:32:19,980
Indeed, one could argue that it is very

726
00:32:19,980 --> 00:32:20,400
rare.

727
00:32:20,860 --> 00:32:22,540
Maybe it's never even happened where you go

728
00:32:22,540 --> 00:32:25,160
into a factory farm for animals and everything's

729
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:25,620
hunky-dory.

730
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:30,200
It seems to me my personal experience on

731
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:32,000
the industry as a whole is that every

732
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:35,400
time investigators have gone in and they're investigators

733
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:38,700
from Animal Outlook and from Animal Equality and

734
00:32:38,700 --> 00:32:40,960
from PETA and from Last Chance, I mean,

735
00:32:40,980 --> 00:32:42,040
it goes on and on.

736
00:32:42,220 --> 00:32:43,920
Organisations have been doing this for the longest

737
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:44,440
time.

738
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:49,660
They find disturbing situations.

739
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:52,240
They just find things that people go, oh

740
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:53,940
my God, oh my God, this is horrible.

741
00:32:54,700 --> 00:32:57,580
And nevertheless, I just wanna show you a

742
00:32:57,580 --> 00:33:01,720
graphic and I'm gonna stop this video for

743
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:03,580
a second to show you the graphic.

744
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:06,000
Here's the graphic.

745
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:10,660
Animal consumption continues to skyrocket.

746
00:33:11,100 --> 00:33:13,940
This is from like the early 60s to

747
00:33:13,940 --> 00:33:15,040
2022.

748
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:18,340
You can see that the number of animals

749
00:33:18,340 --> 00:33:23,280
is skyrocketing and chickens are the most by

750
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:25,360
far consumed animal.

751
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:31,260
If we stopped eating chickens, the number of

752
00:33:31,260 --> 00:33:35,320
animals killed would dramatically drop by something like

753
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:37,240
more than 90%.

754
00:33:39,410 --> 00:33:40,880
Correct me if I'm wrong, Ben.

755
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:43,860
No, you're absolutely right.

756
00:33:43,940 --> 00:33:49,420
Unfortunately, even though we've exposed numerous chicken farms

757
00:33:49,420 --> 00:33:52,960
and other kinds of farms, numerous corporations who

758
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:55,720
are involved in this cruelty, even though it's

759
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:59,040
all available on our website, animaloutlook.org, for

760
00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:02,660
anyone to access at any time, sadly, the

761
00:34:02,660 --> 00:34:07,540
kind of cognitive dissonance of people just buying

762
00:34:07,540 --> 00:34:09,719
what the industry is selling and buying the

763
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:13,719
lies, the myths, the humane washing just makes

764
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:16,580
people feel okay and more comfortable about eating

765
00:34:16,580 --> 00:34:19,219
animals when it's just the reality is so

766
00:34:19,219 --> 00:34:23,179
different from what the companies are putting out

767
00:34:23,179 --> 00:34:23,420
there.

768
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:25,800
So yeah, sadly, the number is increasing.

769
00:34:26,139 --> 00:34:28,460
At some stage, we do hope that we

770
00:34:28,460 --> 00:34:30,699
reach peak meat, as they call it, and

771
00:34:30,699 --> 00:34:31,679
it starts dropping.

772
00:34:32,179 --> 00:34:35,239
We'd know that plant-based meat substitutes are

773
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:37,360
getting better and better and more widely available.

774
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:43,159
We do think as information becomes more dispersed

775
00:34:43,159 --> 00:34:46,860
and more available to people, and that people

776
00:34:46,860 --> 00:34:49,139
will make the right decision and leave animals

777
00:34:49,139 --> 00:34:51,139
off their plates and go for some of

778
00:34:51,139 --> 00:34:53,900
the more delicious plant-based meat substitutes if

779
00:34:53,900 --> 00:34:55,000
that's the way they wanna go.

780
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:58,040
But yeah, it's a sad state of affairs

781
00:34:58,040 --> 00:34:59,980
that no matter how many times we do

782
00:34:59,980 --> 00:35:05,100
these investigations, we know that the kind of

783
00:35:05,100 --> 00:35:08,840
societal pressures, family, community, the type of messaging

784
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:09,580
that works.

785
00:35:09,860 --> 00:35:11,520
We've done a lot of work on behavioural

786
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:12,560
sciences in recent years.

787
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:13,720
I think that's one of the best things

788
00:35:13,720 --> 00:35:15,800
that the movement has done in recent years

789
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:17,640
is really try to understand what's involved in

790
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:20,860
people's decision-making, from nudge behaviour and behavioural

791
00:35:20,860 --> 00:35:21,620
sciences.

792
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:24,280
But we're not there yet.

793
00:35:24,380 --> 00:35:26,980
The message isn't getting through in the way

794
00:35:26,980 --> 00:35:27,900
that we want it to.

795
00:35:28,420 --> 00:35:30,600
Your audience is fantastic, and I'm sure everyone

796
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:32,680
is more enlightened than most who watch your

797
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:35,600
show, but it's up to all of us,

798
00:35:35,620 --> 00:35:37,940
I think, to share the responsibility of getting

799
00:35:37,940 --> 00:35:39,520
these messages out to make sure that we

800
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:40,860
start to bring that graph down.

801
00:35:40,860 --> 00:35:43,020
Yes, and I just wanna read some of

802
00:35:43,020 --> 00:35:43,380
the comments.

803
00:35:43,500 --> 00:35:44,880
I've been vegan for 20 years and I'll

804
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:45,580
die vegan.

805
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:47,700
FYI, we all start out vegan.

806
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:48,680
Interesting point.

807
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:51,900
Tiffany Brunelli, there is no right way to

808
00:35:51,900 --> 00:35:53,100
do the wrong thing.

809
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:54,540
Leave it off your plate.

810
00:35:55,920 --> 00:36:02,640
And we also have a statement from Kim

811
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:03,340
Delgado.

812
00:36:03,500 --> 00:36:05,640
Oh, geez, the numbers of eating animals should

813
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:06,200
be dropping.

814
00:36:06,300 --> 00:36:08,060
All these years, all the information.

815
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:11,420
We must continue to get the truth out

816
00:36:11,420 --> 00:36:11,860
there.

817
00:36:12,380 --> 00:36:14,200
Tina, the workers don't get paid much.

818
00:36:17,300 --> 00:36:18,740
Workers don't get paid much.

819
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:20,580
Don't pay the abuse and murder of these

820
00:36:20,580 --> 00:36:21,340
innocent beings.

821
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:22,180
Go vegan.

822
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:25,560
And it was very interesting to get this

823
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:28,760
message from Erin Wing, who I know is

824
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:32,520
a former undercover investigator at Animal Outlook who

825
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:35,940
has been given awards for her courageous and

826
00:36:35,940 --> 00:36:38,040
really risky undercover investigations.

827
00:36:38,540 --> 00:36:41,360
She says, after conducting and managing investigations into

828
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,000
multiple chicken farms and farming facilities over the

829
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:47,200
course of seven years, the treatment is always

830
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:50,040
the same, brutal and heartbreaking.

831
00:36:50,700 --> 00:36:54,900
And I think that what we have to

832
00:36:54,900 --> 00:36:58,800
consider is when you're talking these kinds of

833
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:02,460
numbers, billions of animals being killed.

834
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:04,140
I mean, millions and millions and millions of

835
00:37:04,140 --> 00:37:06,100
chickens have been killed in the amount of

836
00:37:06,100 --> 00:37:07,340
time we've been talking today.

837
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:09,540
How can you do that nicely?

838
00:37:10,140 --> 00:37:13,580
Is there any possible way to do that

839
00:37:13,580 --> 00:37:14,060
nicely?

840
00:37:14,540 --> 00:37:18,480
Or does the sheer number result in, well,

841
00:37:18,660 --> 00:37:21,880
the footage that you revealed to the public

842
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:23,560
that we are showing you now, Ben?

843
00:37:24,900 --> 00:37:29,200
Yeah, there's no such thing as humane meat.

844
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:33,700
There are degrees of barbarity and inhumaneness, but

845
00:37:33,700 --> 00:37:35,980
there's no way to take the life of

846
00:37:35,980 --> 00:37:39,880
an animal humanely because ultimately they don't want

847
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:40,420
to die.

848
00:37:40,540 --> 00:37:42,920
They don't want to be treated in this

849
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:45,040
way and in any way that means that

850
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:48,900
they'll be killed prematurely in a fraction of

851
00:37:48,900 --> 00:37:49,740
their natural lifespan.

852
00:37:50,380 --> 00:37:52,700
So the only thing to do is to

853
00:37:52,700 --> 00:37:54,800
stop eating them altogether.

854
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:59,720
Now, I will say that part of this

855
00:37:59,720 --> 00:38:02,680
footage, actually, we weren't able to show as

856
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:06,160
much of the cruelty as we recorded.

857
00:38:06,420 --> 00:38:10,060
There were so many incidences of birds being

858
00:38:10,060 --> 00:38:12,860
thrown into those cages, so many incidences of

859
00:38:12,860 --> 00:38:16,020
the forklifts being driven over the birds who

860
00:38:16,020 --> 00:38:19,360
have been grown so large for their breast

861
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:22,180
meat that their bodies can't support, their legs

862
00:38:22,180 --> 00:38:24,640
can't support their own weight, that they couldn't

863
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:25,420
get out of the way.

864
00:38:25,740 --> 00:38:28,600
And rather than stopping the forklift, moving the

865
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:31,280
animals out of the way, it's just more

866
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:34,240
expedious, it's more profitable to run the animals

867
00:38:34,240 --> 00:38:35,980
over and count that as a loss.

868
00:38:36,300 --> 00:38:39,400
Well, Tracy Glover is saying exactly, this is

869
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:40,240
the chicken industry.

870
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:42,220
How can we expect the workers to see

871
00:38:42,220 --> 00:38:44,660
these babies for the individual sentient beings they

872
00:38:44,660 --> 00:38:47,300
are when we say their lives don't matter?

873
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:50,540
They, meaning the workers, become desensitised.

874
00:38:50,720 --> 00:38:52,620
They couldn't do their jobs if they didn't

875
00:38:52,620 --> 00:38:54,080
become desensitised.

876
00:38:54,540 --> 00:38:56,720
It's inevitable there will be this abuse.

877
00:38:57,320 --> 00:38:59,460
This is an industry that by definition is

878
00:38:59,460 --> 00:39:00,840
based on violence and death.

879
00:39:00,980 --> 00:39:03,520
So I have to ask you, Ben, are

880
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:09,280
the workers then sort of scapegoated if you

881
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:10,600
take her point of view?

882
00:39:10,780 --> 00:39:12,220
They're gonna be punished possibly.

883
00:39:12,780 --> 00:39:15,000
The company says they're gonna be prosecuted.

884
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:17,560
Take it away.

885
00:39:18,300 --> 00:39:19,000
Yeah, absolutely.

886
00:39:19,180 --> 00:39:20,780
The companies are trying, you can see in

887
00:39:20,780 --> 00:39:22,820
their statement that Foster Farm is trying to

888
00:39:22,820 --> 00:39:25,460
scapegoat these few bad apples, as they say,

889
00:39:25,460 --> 00:39:29,380
that they're blaming the poorest of the whole

890
00:39:29,380 --> 00:39:31,960
Foster Farms organisation, which is the lowest paid

891
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:33,000
workers in the system.

892
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:36,040
But Foster Farms knows that this type of

893
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:39,100
abuse takes place in its supply chain.

894
00:39:39,460 --> 00:39:41,600
And they're simply just trying to deflect any

895
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:45,080
criticism and shirk corporate responsibility for the abuse

896
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:47,280
that we've uncovered and that is constantly uncovered.

897
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:50,720
We've got investigations going back to 2015 with

898
00:39:50,720 --> 00:39:54,380
Foster Farms and other organisations do as well.

899
00:39:54,380 --> 00:39:56,520
So yeah, this takes place all over the

900
00:39:56,520 --> 00:39:59,060
country, a whole number of all the top

901
00:39:59,060 --> 00:40:01,180
chicken producers in the country.

902
00:40:02,140 --> 00:40:05,280
You'll find this kind of place completely commonplace.

903
00:40:06,060 --> 00:40:08,520
Well, we've got another long comment here.

904
00:40:08,620 --> 00:40:10,160
Okay, so I don't like eating meat for

905
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:11,960
the main reason because of all the unnecessary

906
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:15,060
treatment and cruelty toward these sentient beings.

907
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:17,200
And you can get all your necessary nutrients

908
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:19,540
in other ways, but I have dogs that

909
00:40:19,540 --> 00:40:21,720
eat raw because it is better for them.

910
00:40:21,780 --> 00:40:23,780
It bothers me sometimes when I have to

911
00:40:23,780 --> 00:40:24,540
prepare their food.

912
00:40:24,660 --> 00:40:26,320
And yes, the entire animal is used, but

913
00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:28,580
I don't know what else healthy you could

914
00:40:28,580 --> 00:40:29,360
give them to eat.

915
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:31,480
Myself not eating is one thing, but what

916
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:32,200
about our pets?

917
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:36,540
Well, I have two dogs and this one

918
00:40:36,540 --> 00:40:38,680
here is one of the two and she's

919
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:39,760
100% vegan.

920
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:43,200
And my gosh, her energy level is off

921
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:43,840
the charts.

922
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:45,440
She's perfectly healthy.

923
00:40:45,900 --> 00:40:49,520
So there's plenty of vegan options for your

924
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:50,940
companion animals.

925
00:40:51,980 --> 00:40:54,320
Just wanted to answer that question there.

926
00:40:54,580 --> 00:40:56,660
Let's talk a little bit about you.

927
00:40:57,120 --> 00:41:00,140
You're very modest, but you have an incredible,

928
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:02,600
I was reading it and I could be

929
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:05,600
going on all day, recycled paper by the

930
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:08,920
way, talking about all the different things you've

931
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:09,200
done.

932
00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:12,620
You're originally from London, my favourite city.

933
00:41:12,700 --> 00:41:14,420
I have to say one of my favourite

934
00:41:14,420 --> 00:41:16,480
cities, but really my favourite city.

935
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:20,480
And you worked at PETA, United Kingdom, PETA

936
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:20,760
US.

937
00:41:21,580 --> 00:41:24,080
Then you were the director at World Animal

938
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:28,980
Protection and then the executive director at Compassion

939
00:41:28,980 --> 00:41:29,720
World Farming.

940
00:41:29,940 --> 00:41:30,260
Wow.

941
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:33,240
Tell us about your journey, Ben.

942
00:41:34,100 --> 00:41:35,640
Yeah, I'm very happy to.

943
00:41:35,980 --> 00:41:39,360
So I'll start you off at the beginning.

944
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:45,100
My vegan origin story was, I came from

945
00:41:45,100 --> 00:41:47,040
the kind of Gary Francione school.

946
00:41:47,240 --> 00:41:49,460
I really got into the abolitionist approach.

947
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:51,800
That was my entry point into the world

948
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:52,480
of veganism.

949
00:41:52,660 --> 00:41:54,660
And just the arguments that they were making

950
00:41:54,660 --> 00:41:56,160
completely made sense.

951
00:41:56,220 --> 00:41:57,740
That there is no way to do this

952
00:41:57,740 --> 00:42:03,780
ethically and really abolitionism is the only way

953
00:42:03,780 --> 00:42:04,160
to go.

954
00:42:04,380 --> 00:42:07,460
So at the time, my background was actually

955
00:42:07,460 --> 00:42:08,560
in economics.

956
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:11,260
I did economics at university and I did

957
00:42:11,260 --> 00:42:13,980
my master's in political economy at London School

958
00:42:13,980 --> 00:42:14,580
of Economics.

959
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:16,520
And I was working for an economics think

960
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:18,420
tank in the city of London.

961
00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:21,800
And it was around the time of the

962
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:24,320
financial crisis in 2008, 2009.

963
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:26,540
And there was a lot of demand from

964
00:42:26,540 --> 00:42:29,560
the press to know what would happen with

965
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:32,100
labour market, with interest rates and taxes.

966
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:34,020
And so I was doing a lot of

967
00:42:34,020 --> 00:42:34,780
press at the time.

968
00:42:34,820 --> 00:42:36,060
And I thought, well, wouldn't it be great

969
00:42:36,060 --> 00:42:39,980
to be able to combine my skillset, which

970
00:42:39,980 --> 00:42:45,520
increasingly was press with my passion, which was

971
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:47,460
increasingly veganism.

972
00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:49,120
And so I joined PETA.

973
00:42:49,720 --> 00:42:53,520
They were the largest animal organisation, the first

974
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:55,520
one in my kind of sphere of influence.

975
00:42:55,980 --> 00:42:59,740
And I had a very enjoyable career with

976
00:42:59,740 --> 00:43:01,700
PETA for seven years, first in the U

977
00:43:01,700 --> 00:43:03,600
.S., sorry, first in the UK, in my

978
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:04,340
hometown of London.

979
00:43:04,620 --> 00:43:06,060
And then I moved, I was lucky enough

980
00:43:06,060 --> 00:43:08,080
to move to Los Angeles with PETA.

981
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:10,900
Up until about 2019.

982
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:13,180
And then, as you say, I moved into

983
00:43:13,180 --> 00:43:16,720
campaigns from press and then more organisational responsibility

984
00:43:16,720 --> 00:43:18,120
after that.

985
00:43:18,260 --> 00:43:20,120
So yeah, I've been around, I've been lucky

986
00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:23,280
enough to study under the tutelage of some

987
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:27,040
great leaders in our organisation, Ingrid Newkirk and

988
00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:30,640
Steve McIver and Phil.

989
00:43:33,620 --> 00:43:34,740
So compassion.

990
00:43:34,980 --> 00:43:37,520
And so it's just really, I'm really grateful

991
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:40,840
to have studied under some great inspirational people

992
00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:42,860
and to be able now to bring that

993
00:43:42,860 --> 00:43:43,600
to Animal Outlook.

994
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:45,440
As I say, I'm two weeks into the

995
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:46,880
job or not even two weeks into the

996
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:47,120
job.

997
00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:50,700
But I think Animal Outlook, in terms of

998
00:43:50,700 --> 00:43:52,800
what the parts of what I think is

999
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:54,420
going to help move the needle for animals

1000
00:43:54,420 --> 00:43:56,740
is really on point.

1001
00:43:57,020 --> 00:43:59,560
People don't know it's a 29-year organisation.

1002
00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:02,300
We're gonna celebrate our 30th year next year.

1003
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:05,480
It started out as a homework, kind of

1004
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:06,700
a high school club.

1005
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:09,940
And has developed into one of the leading

1006
00:44:09,940 --> 00:44:12,780
kind of mid-size organisations in the animal

1007
00:44:12,780 --> 00:44:13,620
protection movement.

1008
00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:16,780
The focus on investigations and legal work and

1009
00:44:16,780 --> 00:44:21,000
vegan outreach and now farmer transitions as well

1010
00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:24,640
is something that I think fits the skill

1011
00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:27,200
sets that I've learned in communications and campaigns.

1012
00:44:27,580 --> 00:44:29,200
My job is really, as I see it,

1013
00:44:29,260 --> 00:44:31,980
to help amplify that work and bring, deliver

1014
00:44:31,980 --> 00:44:34,980
some of the amazing investigations and legal groundbreaking

1015
00:44:34,980 --> 00:44:36,340
legal cases that we've done.

1016
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:39,660
We can continue to do to more of

1017
00:44:39,660 --> 00:44:40,540
the mainstream public.

1018
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:45,220
So to ask you a provocative question, I

1019
00:44:45,220 --> 00:44:48,860
see that back, I would say 20 years,

1020
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:52,280
15 years ago, 20 years ago, the mainstream

1021
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:55,940
media was more likely to cover an undercover

1022
00:44:55,940 --> 00:44:56,800
investigation.

1023
00:44:57,660 --> 00:45:01,200
Now I've noticed that they often pretend it

1024
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:01,740
didn't happen.

1025
00:45:01,820 --> 00:45:03,360
And that's one of the reasons we started

1026
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:06,760
Unchained TV, the world's only non-profit vegan

1027
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:10,440
streaming television network to get these stories out.

1028
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:13,600
I even said to you, who else has

1029
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:14,220
covered this?

1030
00:45:14,460 --> 00:45:16,500
Now, now that Foster Farms has issued a

1031
00:45:16,500 --> 00:45:18,480
statement, maybe I hope there will be more

1032
00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:18,740
coverage.

1033
00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:20,920
We never want the exclusive on stories like

1034
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:21,400
this, never.

1035
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:23,420
But one of the reasons we started it

1036
00:45:23,420 --> 00:45:26,520
is that it's, to me, it feels more

1037
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:28,200
and more, and I was in mainstream media

1038
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:30,780
for more than three decades, that the mainstream

1039
00:45:30,780 --> 00:45:33,300
media has been co-opted by the meat,

1040
00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:37,060
dairy, and pharmaceutical industries, which are very intertwined.

1041
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:40,860
And so you're not seeing the kind of

1042
00:45:40,860 --> 00:45:45,540
reporting that you even saw back 20 years

1043
00:45:45,540 --> 00:45:48,160
ago when it comes to these undercover investigations.

1044
00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:49,420
What are your thoughts on that?

1045
00:45:50,240 --> 00:45:52,000
I think you're absolutely right.

1046
00:45:52,100 --> 00:45:54,520
And I think that that has been my

1047
00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:55,500
experience as well.

1048
00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:57,780
I think a couple of things are happening.

1049
00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:01,020
Yes, the mainstream media is kind of getting

1050
00:46:01,020 --> 00:46:03,540
scared off by the litigiousness of some of

1051
00:46:03,540 --> 00:46:04,160
these companies.

1052
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:05,820
They don't want to put their head above

1053
00:46:05,820 --> 00:46:08,600
the parapet because they're wondering, well, what if

1054
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:09,160
I get sued?

1055
00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:12,520
As a media organisation, if I'm giving a

1056
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:16,000
voice to allegations that end up not having

1057
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:17,920
any reality, I think that- Well, let

1058
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:18,860
me just say this.

1059
00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:21,220
I understand what you're saying, and I'm always

1060
00:46:21,220 --> 00:46:22,660
very cautious as a journalist.

1061
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:26,380
You presented videotaped evidence.

1062
00:46:26,860 --> 00:46:30,060
Now, sometimes in past, the companies go, this

1063
00:46:30,060 --> 00:46:31,540
was taken out of context.

1064
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:34,720
Honestly, they didn't suggest that.

1065
00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:37,900
They said, Foster Farms, and I'll read the

1066
00:46:37,900 --> 00:46:41,460
statement again, and we invite Foster Farms on

1067
00:46:41,460 --> 00:46:42,260
any time.

1068
00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:44,180
We would love to dialogue with you.

1069
00:46:44,700 --> 00:46:49,420
It says, as quoted in this poultry publication,

1070
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:52,380
four weeks ago, Foster Farms uncovered a few

1071
00:46:52,380 --> 00:46:55,620
employees had intentionally violated our animal welfare and

1072
00:46:55,620 --> 00:46:56,980
training standards and procedures.

1073
00:46:56,980 --> 00:47:00,620
Per our zero tolerance policy, we immediately terminated

1074
00:47:00,620 --> 00:47:02,480
those involved and referred them to the Fresno

1075
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:05,520
County Law Enforcement, where they will be prosecuted

1076
00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:07,060
to the fullest extent of the law, said

1077
00:47:07,060 --> 00:47:09,440
Randy Boyce, General Counsel for Foster Farms.

1078
00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:12,280
Put simply, the conduct was counter to everything

1079
00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:14,320
we stand for as a company, and our

1080
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:18,060
actions ensure those responsible are held accountable.

1081
00:47:18,660 --> 00:47:21,420
You are saying the company itself is responsible.

1082
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:24,380
You're asking the Fresno County District Attorney's Office

1083
00:47:24,380 --> 00:47:27,740
to prosecute the company, and we invite the

1084
00:47:27,740 --> 00:47:33,720
Fresno County District Attorney's Office on, so there

1085
00:47:33,720 --> 00:47:36,960
is the response from the company.

1086
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:38,900
They're not saying this didn't happen.

1087
00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:42,620
They're not saying what companies often say is,

1088
00:47:42,780 --> 00:47:43,960
this was taken out of context.

1089
00:47:44,460 --> 00:47:47,480
They're saying, yeah, this is not like some

1090
00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:54,280
Hollywood production where it was made to look

1091
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:54,600
like.

1092
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:56,000
They're saying this happened.

1093
00:47:56,240 --> 00:47:57,080
They're acknowledging it.

1094
00:47:57,460 --> 00:47:59,080
Yeah, I mean, there might be a slight,

1095
00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:01,140
slight of hand in their statements.

1096
00:48:01,340 --> 00:48:03,300
They might, they haven't exactly linked it to

1097
00:48:03,300 --> 00:48:07,000
the video that we filmed, but ultimately they're

1098
00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:09,400
accepting that there has been some degree of

1099
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:11,720
cruelty to animal violations that have taken place

1100
00:48:11,720 --> 00:48:13,520
at their farms, and they are saying that

1101
00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:16,460
they've taken responsibility for it, which, you know,

1102
00:48:16,580 --> 00:48:19,700
we would argue that they haven't until they

1103
00:48:19,700 --> 00:48:23,100
face themselves the- What would you like

1104
00:48:23,100 --> 00:48:24,620
to see the company do?

1105
00:48:26,420 --> 00:48:29,040
Well, ultimately, I think the company needs to

1106
00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:30,540
get out of the business of chicken farming.

1107
00:48:31,260 --> 00:48:35,100
As we know, chicken farming is, you can't

1108
00:48:35,100 --> 00:48:37,680
detach cruelty to animals from chicken farming.

1109
00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:41,480
We see it every time, but yeah, these

1110
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:43,560
workers should never be allowed to work with

1111
00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:43,800
chickens.

1112
00:48:43,940 --> 00:48:45,940
Again, the supervisors should be held responsible, the

1113
00:48:45,940 --> 00:48:48,340
board of Foster Farm should be held responsible,

1114
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:51,040
and it's ultimately up to law enforcement to

1115
00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:54,580
decide in this particular case which charges move

1116
00:48:54,580 --> 00:48:58,720
forward and how responsible Foster Farms is held.

1117
00:48:59,460 --> 00:49:00,680
But I would say as well, to go

1118
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:02,080
back to our point about media, you know,

1119
00:49:02,120 --> 00:49:04,640
I could talk about media's willingness to embrace

1120
00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:05,820
these things all the time.

1121
00:49:06,140 --> 00:49:07,440
It's kind of a, it's a bit of

1122
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:10,500
a paradox because we see so much of

1123
00:49:10,500 --> 00:49:11,780
this cruelty in investigations.

1124
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:13,560
We do three or four of these kinds

1125
00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:14,660
of investigations a year.

1126
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:18,420
The media's just a little, let's say, almost

1127
00:49:18,420 --> 00:49:19,080
tired of it.

1128
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:20,640
It's more of a, it's like a man

1129
00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:21,040
bites dog.

1130
00:49:21,140 --> 00:49:21,860
What else is new?

1131
00:49:22,140 --> 00:49:24,440
We know that cruelty to animals exists in

1132
00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:25,080
factory farms.

1133
00:49:25,180 --> 00:49:25,900
We know it happens.

1134
00:49:26,060 --> 00:49:28,420
So they kind of think nothing's new, but

1135
00:49:28,420 --> 00:49:30,600
at the same time, we know that their

1136
00:49:30,600 --> 00:49:32,280
audience doesn't know this stuff.

1137
00:49:32,420 --> 00:49:34,560
We know that we ourselves as animal protection

1138
00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:37,600
advocates, we're constantly surprised by the degree of

1139
00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:39,200
cruelty that we see on these farms.

1140
00:49:40,220 --> 00:49:43,480
So, you know, it's a very strange state

1141
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:46,580
of affairs where the media organisations say, oh,

1142
00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:47,720
this is just what happens.

1143
00:49:48,340 --> 00:49:50,740
But for some reason that is not getting

1144
00:49:50,740 --> 00:49:51,460
out to the public.

1145
00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:53,480
And please share this out.

1146
00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:56,800
We are streaming this on our streaming network

1147
00:49:56,800 --> 00:49:59,400
where you can comment as well as Facebook,

1148
00:49:59,780 --> 00:50:04,860
YouTube, X, LinkedIn, share it out.

1149
00:50:06,340 --> 00:50:11,900
You know, if indeed you're not gonna get

1150
00:50:11,900 --> 00:50:15,780
mainstream media coverage on this, then the only

1151
00:50:15,780 --> 00:50:17,600
way that we can do it is through

1152
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:20,780
independent media, which is what we are, and

1153
00:50:20,780 --> 00:50:24,880
through people sharing it out.

1154
00:50:25,060 --> 00:50:26,640
And there it is when somebody says, I'm

1155
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:28,780
sharing this out on every platform, it's a

1156
00:50:28,780 --> 00:50:29,100
click.

1157
00:50:29,700 --> 00:50:32,500
And that's, you never know the impact.

1158
00:50:32,680 --> 00:50:36,800
I actually sent this to somebody who, I

1159
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:39,760
think we all have a situation where there's

1160
00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:41,980
somebody that we like very much, but they

1161
00:50:41,980 --> 00:50:45,720
completely disregard our position when it comes to

1162
00:50:45,720 --> 00:50:48,100
animal activism and veganism.

1163
00:50:48,420 --> 00:50:49,900
And I have a friend like that.

1164
00:50:50,080 --> 00:50:52,100
And, you know, I was looking at this

1165
00:50:52,100 --> 00:50:54,160
and I just texted her the link.

1166
00:50:54,300 --> 00:50:55,980
And I said, three minutes, watch it.

1167
00:50:56,340 --> 00:50:57,600
I didn't say anything else.

1168
00:50:57,940 --> 00:51:00,500
And she responded, this is sad.

1169
00:51:01,240 --> 00:51:01,920
That was it.

1170
00:51:02,300 --> 00:51:04,100
But I said, I appreciate you taking the

1171
00:51:04,100 --> 00:51:04,700
time to watch.

1172
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:05,200
Thank you.

1173
00:51:05,620 --> 00:51:08,820
I didn't really wanna say anything more.

1174
00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:10,400
I don't wanna fight with people.

1175
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:12,140
I just wanted her to see it.

1176
00:51:12,220 --> 00:51:14,320
Because one of the hard things is to

1177
00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:16,380
get people to watch these videos.

1178
00:51:17,720 --> 00:51:20,560
You know, that's why we have Unchained TV.

1179
00:51:20,740 --> 00:51:22,560
We have a lot of fun, upbeat videos,

1180
00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:25,940
cooking shows and reality TV shows and fun,

1181
00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:27,080
upbeat coverage.

1182
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:29,440
But then mixed in with that is some

1183
00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:33,680
of these more serious, disturbing videos.

1184
00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:37,960
So, exactly.

1185
00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:40,180
Well, we only have a couple minutes.

1186
00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:42,580
I wanted to get your thoughts for where

1187
00:51:42,580 --> 00:51:44,760
Animal Outlook is going to go.

1188
00:51:44,940 --> 00:51:47,280
And, you know, having worked with many, many

1189
00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:50,440
different animal rights organisations over decades now, I

1190
00:51:50,440 --> 00:51:52,460
would say that, you know, what stands out

1191
00:51:52,460 --> 00:51:55,040
to me about Animal Outlook, and I've interviewed

1192
00:51:55,040 --> 00:51:57,620
some of the undercover investigators who, to me,

1193
00:51:57,680 --> 00:51:59,480
are the bravest people in the entire movement,

1194
00:52:00,340 --> 00:52:02,200
is your undercover investigations.

1195
00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:03,220
You're known for that.

1196
00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:05,420
Is there anything else you're gonna be focused

1197
00:52:05,420 --> 00:52:05,780
on?

1198
00:52:06,780 --> 00:52:09,540
Well, I really like the strategy that Cheryl

1199
00:52:09,540 --> 00:52:13,060
and my predecessor and Erica before have laid

1200
00:52:13,060 --> 00:52:14,000
out for Animal Outlook.

1201
00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:15,960
You know, it all starts with investigations.

1202
00:52:16,220 --> 00:52:17,300
That's how we get the truth.

1203
00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:18,900
That's how we know what's going on.

1204
00:52:19,360 --> 00:52:20,960
From there, we have a legal strategy.

1205
00:52:21,100 --> 00:52:23,880
We want impact legal advocacy, something that's not

1206
00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:25,620
only going to prosecute a few people at

1207
00:52:25,620 --> 00:52:29,440
a time, but actually something that's replicable that

1208
00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:32,580
other organisations, other firms can then use to

1209
00:52:32,580 --> 00:52:35,320
litigate properly in their jurisdictions.

1210
00:52:35,780 --> 00:52:37,960
That can be scalable and hold the whole

1211
00:52:37,960 --> 00:52:41,460
industry and the whole animal protection, the whole

1212
00:52:41,460 --> 00:52:44,460
animal farming system to account.

1213
00:52:44,780 --> 00:52:47,640
From there, obviously we use the investigations, the

1214
00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:50,780
legal work to create a vegan movement, to

1215
00:52:50,780 --> 00:52:53,360
say that there is no alternative to animal

1216
00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:55,940
cruelty within the animal farming industry.

1217
00:52:56,520 --> 00:52:58,880
Going vegan is the only way to actually,

1218
00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:01,000
to end the cruelty.

1219
00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:03,800
So vegan outreach has to be like the

1220
00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:06,100
tip of the spear really, because that's what

1221
00:53:06,100 --> 00:53:08,820
any single, that's the most, the best thing

1222
00:53:08,820 --> 00:53:10,220
that any single individual can do.

1223
00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:12,460
And from there, it's about just transition.

1224
00:53:12,660 --> 00:53:15,320
So helping farmers escape, because farmers are trapped

1225
00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:16,240
in this system too.

1226
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:19,180
Farmers are under enormous amounts of debt when

1227
00:53:19,180 --> 00:53:21,120
they go into chicken farming, building the barns

1228
00:53:21,120 --> 00:53:25,080
and being responsible to the integrators usually, and

1229
00:53:25,080 --> 00:53:26,960
helping them transition out of animal farming so

1230
00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:29,060
that we can close that loop, having them

1231
00:53:29,060 --> 00:53:31,000
grow lettuce, having them grow mushrooms, having them

1232
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:33,860
grow other things that do not harm, create

1233
00:53:33,860 --> 00:53:34,860
inequality to animals.

1234
00:53:35,300 --> 00:53:36,920
So really closing that loop and making sure

1235
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:38,360
those things never happen again.

1236
00:53:38,760 --> 00:53:40,840
So I really like Animal Outlook's strategy of

1237
00:53:40,840 --> 00:53:42,980
how we go from the investigations all through

1238
00:53:42,980 --> 00:53:44,700
to the end, which is a more vegan

1239
00:53:44,700 --> 00:53:45,120
world.

1240
00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:46,640
Wow.

1241
00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:48,300
And do you think we're getting closer to

1242
00:53:48,300 --> 00:53:49,120
a more vegan world?

1243
00:53:49,240 --> 00:53:51,560
Because nothing goes straight up.

1244
00:53:51,660 --> 00:53:53,620
I mean, when Beyond Meat, for example, went

1245
00:53:53,620 --> 00:53:55,840
public, it was like a frenzy.

1246
00:53:56,440 --> 00:54:00,000
And then there was just an explosion of

1247
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:03,660
plant-based restaurants, products, and now there's a

1248
00:54:03,660 --> 00:54:06,340
bit of a retrenchment because nothing ever goes

1249
00:54:06,340 --> 00:54:09,000
straight up, even the most successful stocks are

1250
00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:11,460
a bit of a craggy line.

1251
00:54:11,820 --> 00:54:12,960
Where do you think we are?

1252
00:54:14,460 --> 00:54:16,340
Unfortunately, I think it's something we're gonna be

1253
00:54:16,340 --> 00:54:17,040
forced into.

1254
00:54:17,560 --> 00:54:20,060
As humans, we don't kind of do much

1255
00:54:20,060 --> 00:54:21,340
until we're forced into it.

1256
00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:22,680
And we see what's going on with these

1257
00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:24,300
dreadful hurricanes in Florida now.

1258
00:54:24,640 --> 00:54:26,540
We know that animal agriculture is one of

1259
00:54:26,540 --> 00:54:28,380
the leading causes of climate change.

1260
00:54:28,940 --> 00:54:32,120
It's probably not going to be something that

1261
00:54:32,120 --> 00:54:33,940
we change until it's too late.

1262
00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:35,760
But if there are enough people calling for

1263
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:37,680
it, we'll get there just in time and

1264
00:54:37,680 --> 00:54:39,840
we'll end animal agriculture while we still have

1265
00:54:39,840 --> 00:54:40,620
a planet to live on.

1266
00:54:41,340 --> 00:54:43,380
I just wanna say, Ben, it's been such

1267
00:54:43,380 --> 00:54:44,840
a delight speaking with you.

1268
00:54:46,320 --> 00:54:49,920
I find your backstory fascinating.

1269
00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:52,800
I know you're a very busy person, so

1270
00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:54,340
I wanna thank you for taking the time

1271
00:54:54,340 --> 00:54:56,180
to join us here on Unchained TV.

1272
00:54:56,780 --> 00:54:58,940
And I hope, if you haven't, that you

1273
00:54:58,940 --> 00:55:02,740
download our streaming network.

1274
00:55:02,980 --> 00:55:04,860
So it's a vegan Netflix.

1275
00:55:05,140 --> 00:55:07,020
Okay, that's the craziest thing I've ever heard.

1276
00:55:07,020 --> 00:55:08,240
I love Unchained TV.

1277
00:55:08,520 --> 00:55:10,260
Unchained, Unchained TV.

1278
00:55:10,420 --> 00:55:11,220
Your life will change.

1279
00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:12,420
It's just that easy.

1280
00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:15,240
Unchained TV has all sorts of content for

1281
00:55:15,240 --> 00:55:15,720
everybody.

1282
00:55:16,140 --> 00:55:18,200
Unchained TV changed my life.

1283
00:55:18,500 --> 00:55:21,300
Unchained TV is crushing it.

1284
00:55:21,420 --> 00:55:22,960
I love Unchained TV.

1285
00:55:23,240 --> 00:55:24,980
Unchained TV is my go-to.

1286
00:55:25,340 --> 00:55:27,060
Unchained TV, who knew?

1287
00:55:27,860 --> 00:55:29,500
Unchained, baby, yeah.

1288
00:55:34,040 --> 00:55:35,520
So download it.

1289
00:55:35,700 --> 00:55:37,500
The world's only vegan streaming network.

1290
00:55:37,760 --> 00:55:38,480
It's free.

1291
00:55:38,660 --> 00:55:40,460
You can download it on your phone, on

1292
00:55:40,460 --> 00:55:42,760
your TV, and you can also watch online

1293
00:55:42,760 --> 00:55:44,040
at unchainedtv.com.

1294
00:55:44,160 --> 00:55:45,940
See you next time.

1295
00:55:46,560 --> 00:55:46,960
Bye.

1296
00:55:47,560 --> 00:55:47,980
Thanks, Jen.