UnchainedTV: The TMZ Paparazzi Turned Animal Rights Filmmaker

0:00 Welcome to Unchained TV featuring best-selling author, TV journalist, and the founder of the Unchained TV free streaming network, Jane Valez Mitchell. You're about to hear a secret solution to the problems that plague our world. If you want to revolutionise your health, get truly joyful, and jump to the next phase of human evolution, all it takes is one simple choice. Now here's your host, Jane Valez Mitchell. Welcome, let's go to May 28th, 2016, the zoo in Cincinnati, horror erupts, a child has somehow ended up in the zoo enclosure, and what happened next has become a movie that will rock your world.

0:49 This image alone of Harambee has been shared 28 billion times. His case went viral because they shot him dead. They shot this innocent being who was in captivity, not in the wild, dead because a child had fallen into his enclosure. Now I'm going to talk to the two extraordinary filmmakers who took a deep dive into this case to find out what really happened and also explore the horrors of animals in captivity and a syndrome called zookosis, which is the psychosis that animal prisoners inside zoos endure.

1:39 This film has been hailed as the next Blackfish, and it is rocking the world of zoos, which in this film makes an argument are animal prisoners. Rest in peace, Harambee. Thank you so much for joining us, Eric Crown and Sierra Williams. And you just got back from Africa, where you were also trying to save animals. Let's just start with this extraordinary film you did, Harambee. Eric, if you had to do the 32nd elevator pitch to somebody, what would you say about the importance of your film?

2:19 I would say that right now the most important thing we can do as a modern society is to re-examine the concept of captivity for entertainment and re-examine the idea of keeping sentient beings in these types of prisons. It's an outdated concept, and we need to look at it through modern eyes, modern understanding of animals, and modern sense of empathy that has grown and grown and grown, and we have seen an overwhelming amount of people that stand behind this idea. But I think captivity is outdated, cruel, and needs to be ended. And I'm very proud to say that Harambee is streaming for free on Unchained TV, which is our free streaming television network for animal rights and compassion to all animals and the plant-based lifestyle.

3:10 So let's play a trailer, a snippet of a trailer of Harambee with sound so that you can experience truly the horror of that moment when this young boy fell into the enclosure, and then we're going to discuss it on the other side. Oh my god! A zoo under fire for shooting and killing an endangered gorilla instead of tranquillizing him. This whole tragedy was a misunderstanding.

3:52 I don't know for sure if he was trying to protect him, but I know he wasn't trying to hurt him. It went viral. Everyone was talking about it. It was on every news channel. It was dominating the headlines about a boy coming face to face with a gorilla. I mean, this is not a common news story that you hear about. I know about it because of what happened, and then it blew up into a meme, and it's unforgettable. He was known as Handsome Harambee. He was there, but he preferred to be out in the wild. I know that. He didn't even know what the wild was, but he would tell us, like, you know, there's a better place for me.

4:38 So this child somehow ended up in the gorilla world, which is the enclosure where these gorillas were kept. There were two females, and then there was Harambee, who, according to published reports, was 440 pounds. The two females were shushed away. Harambee remained, and just describe what happened next for the next crucial 10 minutes, because the whole question that your film poses is, was he trying to hurt the boy, or was he trying to protect the boy? You know, and that is really the crux of the questions that we hear the most of.

5:21 What happened next is very challenging because they whisked everybody away. No one was allowed to be in the area, so there's not a lot of video or imagery. When we asked for security tapes, even first responder cameras, we were denied, and we were also denied all information from the city when we made our FOIA request. What happens next is Harambee, so Harambee was on the opposite side of the exhibit as the exit door was located, where Harambee knew to go in and out of the door and to get food, and he was trained for that one particular door. He lived on the other side of the enclosure. He kept to himself. He was not very happy. He was very closed off, and when the boy fell down, he, in many, I would say most guerrilla experts' opinions, was trying to return the boy to the parents.

6:11 Now, this is where people will argue different things, but what we do know is he was on the opposite side of the enclosure. He grabbed the boy, picked him up. He did carry him in a very normal guerrilla fashion, and then actually climbed up 13 feet to the top of the exhibit and stood next to the door he usually comes in and out of, waiting for zookeepers, and he was killed with a single bullet, and his head exploded. We know that due to the size of the ammunition they used, so what everybody saw was a guerrilla and a child, and understandably, they were very frightened for the child's safety, but that fear created a series of chaos and confusion that led to his death, as opposed to an understanding of animal behaviour and an appreciation that, as Ian Redmond says in the movie, if he wanted to harm the boy, he could have in an instant, but he didn't.

7:08 He brought the boy back to the actual exhibit door, and then he was killed. So, one shot, boom, he's dead, and of course, even the newscasters were asking, why didn't they use a tranquillizer gun? That is one of the key questions. We have some callers lining up, but can you answer that crucial question? Yes, actually, it's very important that they did not use a tranquillizer, because tranquillizers don't work the way people think of in movies. You don't fire a tranquillizer dart and somebody goes down. It actually puts a system into overdrive, which then shuts the system down. It can take up to 20-25 minutes to become active inside, especially inside of a large guerrilla, so that may have agitated Harambe and may have led to a different outcome or a very dangerous outcome for the boy.

7:59 So, as much as we would have liked to have seen a non-lethal ending to it, I don't believe the zookeepers necessarily had a choice with the way their programme runs, and that is exactly why we feel we should not have endangered animals in captivity anymore. I don't think we should have any animals in captivity, frankly. Let's go to the phone lines. Michael in Los Angeles, your question or thought for the makers of Harambe. Yeah, thank you for having the show. I remember when this incident happened, and I was so angry, and I still am. This is so sad on so many levels, and it's something that should never have happened for the simple reasons that zoos should not exist.

8:41 Plain and simple, they're prisons, but my question is why were the parents never charged with the crime, and for no other reason than endangering their child by not properly watching him and letting him enter the enclosure? Thank you. You know, Michael, that is a great question, and that is one of one of the biggest points that we do talk about, because when we talk about Harambe, people are very upset, because we all know that what happened to him was wrong. Now, what we uncovered while making the movie is that the zoo actually was not in compliance. Their fence was not proper size, and as a matter of fact, it was a little under three feet tall, and it was three simple wires that the kid climbed right under.

9:23 Now, there is a lot of question mark as to what were the parents doing, but we posit a similar question in response, which is when you take your children to a zoo or a movie theatre, for example, someplace where there's a public place that is allowed to have children, you do expect a certain level of safety, and the zoo failed, and that's why the zoo was actually charged, penalised, and we spoke to some of the responding officers who didn't want to be in the movie, but they did an investigation and found no negligence on the mom's part, but what we did see at the end was a spin where everybody took their anger, and it went directly to the parents instead of the zoo who was legally responsible.

10:07 In fact, this is the first time that a child is falling into a gorilla enclosure. This is the third time it's happened. It's true. Yeah, and you know, the thing that really just drives me crazy is that people always talk about zoos as educational for the children, for the children. This is the 21st century. I can swim with the dolphins with a headset. I can experience in a real world way what these animals are like with 21st century technology, 3D technology, virtual headsets, etc. We don't need to keep these animals in these prisons called zoos, and I invite the Cincinnati Zoo or any zoo on here on Unchained TV to debate me on that and dialogue with me.

10:57 We've got so many callers. We're going to run through them. Karen in Venice, California, your question or thought. Okay, so I have been to Rwanda. I've been up close with gorillas. I've seen how gentle they are. They are not threatening. These zookeepers should have been trained properly. They should know these gorillas. They should know better, and it is totally criminal on the zoo's part. They shouldn't be in zoos anyway, but it's common knowledge how gentle they actually are, and they should be prosecuted to the fullest.

11:39 Absolutely. These beautiful animals are so close to us. They understand young children. They're not going to harm a young human child. Definitely not, and they should have known that. We've got so many callers lined up, but just to address quickly, did charges ever, whatever happened legally? Legally, the only response was the zoo was fined, and then they changed their fence. As a result, they raised it two inches approximately, and when we went back, we still saw children standing on the fence trying to crawl under it.

12:20 Absolutely. It is in no way a safe barrier and in no way a good idea for this to be there, especially just to sell tickets for exhibition. We invite the zoo on any time to respond. Let's go to our next caller, Nilo Farr in Dallas, Texas, your question or thought for our incredible panel, the makers of Harambee. Hi. What strategies have you found effective in getting all people to engage with Harambee? In other words, how do we get a house filled with those who want to watch this film?

13:00 Great question. Yeah. Send us an email at harambeemovie.com and let us know where you're located, and let's get a screening set up. It's a matter of spreading the word and just people coming together. Aside from this programme, we have found a very silence within the press, because a lot of times zoo money is borne into advertising money, fundraisers, all that stuff, so we really are relying on people all around the country that want to watch the movie, talk about the movie. We offer it for free here on Unchained TV. You can have a watch party, contact us.

13:41 We'll come do a Q&A afterwards for free. We just want to talk about this topic because we want to stop the next Harambee from happening, and the only way we can do that is if we demand bigger changes from the zoo, not in security measures, but in keeping these animals in the wild, which I know we are on a time crunch, but at the same time, I also want to mention that every gorilla in a zoo is a nail in the coffin of our environment. They are very important. They're keystone species, and the longer they sit in zoos, the less they're doing their work for the biodiversity and for the planet, which we all rely on to survive. Our survival is wrapped in their survival, and their survival is wrapped in their freedom.

14:24 We're in the world of species extinction right now. Let's go to the next caller, Christina in Los Angeles. Your question or thought for the makers of Harambee. Hi there. My question is, and I hope I didn't miss it. I just joined. So did any of the zookeepers or gorilla caretakers, did any one of them try to go into the area to save the kids? I mean, where are they? Great question. That is a great question. Yeah, where were they the whole time? Harambee was standing for at least five minutes next to the door that he usually comes in and out of waiting, just waiting for a keeper to come in and take over.

15:10 He knew where his responsibility ended. Like I said, he walked over, climbed up 13 feet to the top of the exhibit to return the child, and the zookeepers, we don't really know. The biggest problem is it seems to us that they went to violence right away. If you're not aware, or if you guys haven't seen the movie yet, there's this thing called the dart team, which is a team of zookeepers that are trained to lethally kill the animals if there is an unwanted human animal interaction. The problem we see is that they went right to the dart team as a measure because they were worried for the child's safety. It's very hard for us to, you know, Monday morning quarterback everyone's things there.

15:54 The way we see it is it was a tragedy for everybody. We know whoever had to take that shot is probably still living with that decision in that moment today. It is another form of cruelty that is on everybody. It's crazy to think that people go spend all their time, money, and lives to become zookeepers only to potentially have to shoot the very animals they love. Oh, yeah. I mean, this is a bad setup for everyone because the premise is let's take animals from the wild or breed them in captivity and keep them in animal prisons. All right. We've got so many callers. This is touching a nerve. Tiffany in Los Angeles, your question or thought for the makers of Harambe.

16:36 Hi, Jane. Thank you for taking my call. To be honest, I haven't seen the movie yet, so I will watch it on Unchained. Thank you both for making this movie. My question is how did you become interested in making this? What brought you to decide to make the film? Thank you. Thank you. That is a really great question, you know, because we have always been very focused on pollution, environmental rights, and animal rights as filmmakers and storytellers. We ended up meeting the man who took the viral image of Harambe, and he said, I want to do something positive with this that can help gorillas today.

17:17 We thought, let's tell Harambe's true story, not just those last few moments that he's remembered for, but let's tell his whole life story so people can get a sense of what he's been through. That will give everybody an opportunity to reconsider the idea of gorillas in captivity. I agree, Jane, every animal should actually be out of captivity, but hopefully with an animal that shares 98% of our DNA, maybe people can relate and understand him and understand that we need to build these, you know, we already have understanding of how their minds work and how their logic works. They are sentient. And, you know, so when we found all of these things, and then we linked up with Born Free and learned about zookosis, which is absolutely a terrible, terrible psychological issue that occurs to animals that are forced to be in captivity or born in captivity.

18:08 We all got to touch that with COVID and everybody got a little stir crazy. We decided we had a great opportunity to try to fight against the idea that captivity is essential and that it needs to be there for education because we know that there are so many more ways, and you're not even going to learn about the animals properly inside of the zoo. All right, Annie and Sherman Oaks, your question or thought? Hi. Yes. Thank you for having the show, Jane. And thank you for making this movie amazing. Thank you. This is long overdue. I still cry when I think of Harambee. I know the suffering they go through being locked up.

18:48 During COVID, people that do not relate to animals in zoo and think that we're getting education. They need to remember during COVID how psychotic they went. These animals are innocent, being kidnapped, taken away and forced into being locked up. I want to know, is there any kind of way that we can have a class action lawsuit against all zoos because they're prison for every single being, not only Harambee, the innocent, beautiful, intelligent, going extinct species, but all animals? I love it. That's an excellent question. Is there a possibility of taking overall legal action?

19:30 Because it's just like it's never just one factory farm doing the bad thing. It's all zoos. Eric? Yes. We have linked up with the non-human rights project, and they're actually working on, they tried to work on getting freedom for primates previously. Now they are fighting for elephants, which are other keystone sentient beings that are facing the same thing. They do try one by one. What we would love to see would be to not only have the captivity, but the ability to breed, just like with the recent Big Cat Safety Act, where they stopped breeding in roadside zoos.

20:11 We have some friends that were instrumental in making that happen. We would love to see the same thing with major zoos and with breeding, especially if we can start with our endangered animals. We don't have enough for the world to operate right now. To have one that's just sitting there locked away and then executed is absolutely, it's against the idea of saving the animals. I think as a nation, as we continue to rethink our relationship to the world around us and the sentient animals, especially around us, and all nature around us, I think we're headed towards a movement where, you know, we're personally, we're vegan, and so we do always try to fight for all animal rights.

20:56 And I think that as that also continues, we're finding this holistic movement where everybody says, I don't want to do this. And when people learn about zookosis, this is our biggest one we found so far. When people learn about zookosis, you can't unlearn it. And when you learn that they're being psychologically damaged by being in these exhibits that people think maybe you're okay for them, you start to rethink what's there. And I see a big change in our society, and I think there's a really strong possibility we can change this. Now, I urge everybody, watch Harambee. It's streaming for free. That's Unchained TV right behind me. On my Samsung TV, you can download it on Samsung TV, Amazon Fire Stick, Roku device, Apple TV device.

21:39 You can watch Unchained TV on your phone. You can watch it online. Just go to unchainedtv.com and click streaming now. Boom. I want to ask you about zookosis in specific. But first, let me play a clip from your trailer that features prominent people speaking up about this entire issue of zookosis and saying essentially that zoos are animal prisons, and the animals inside them are experiencing severe psychological distress.

22:22 We value our freedom. And we put these beautiful creatures who we say we want to look after and save in prison, because that is what zoos are. 600 million zoo visits a year. We are fundamentally mis-educating people, misleading them about what these animals are, their role in the natural environment. All of that is effectively lost. They're not ornaments. Here's a complex autonomous being locked in a cage. This isn't acceptable. Once you engage with and contribute to selective compassion, you actually have gone on the journey of reducing your natural compassion.

23:07 Zookosis, wild creatures kept in confinement, which they cannot really tolerate. It does drive them crazy. If you can't leave, you're in jail. The zoo is here. And we can make an informed choice about whether we go and patronise and fund through our buying a ticket or not. The zoo just wants to forget about Harambe, because their part of it was, you know, the bad part of it. And so it seems like I'm the only one in Cincinnati fighting for Harambe's rights and say, hey, you need to remember him. He was a part of this city. And now you're acting like he's not.

23:49 And that was one of the key players in your amazing film. Peter Egan, the famous actor who you may remember from Downton Abbey, is the narrator and plays himself in this film. So I personally will say that when I lived in New York City and I was in Central Park and people would say, which way is the zoo? I said, I'm not going to tell you because I don't believe that you should go to the zoo. I don't think it's healthy psychologically for your kids. When I was a kid, my father took me to the Central Park Zoo and I would get depressed because I saw these animals and they were clearly miserable, clearly to a child. It's funny how children can sometimes see what the adults repress to the point they can't see them.

24:33 So tell us about Zookosis. This was, I mean, we didn't even know about Zookosis when we started the movie. So we learned along with the audience. First of all, it was understood by animal behaviourists back in the 50s and 60s when they started to travel around and understand how animals behave differently in captivity than in nature. There's a lot of great examples of that that we have, especially in the movie, to talk about. But one thing that people need to remember also is in 1973, the Endangered Species Act was passed, which meant that any animals that were left over from poaching could no longer be imported into zoos.

25:21 Since then, the zoos created a workaround to breed different endangered animals and trade them for free amongst other zoos. So you have babies that are being born to sell tickets. Zoo babies are very popular. These animals are never going to understand freedom, but they're never going to forget what it is either. It's their instinct. We've seen a lot of animals successfully rehabilitated into the wild, whether it's through rewilding programmes, even dolphin programmes. They have gorilla programmes now. And so Zookosis is this psychological effect where they're born into a world they don't understand and are held captive.

26:02 So there's a lot of things that they can no longer do in captivity that they normally would do. One would be calling to other gorilla groups. They're very communicative and they all speak to each other. Without that communication, they start to lose their sense of what's happening. They're not allowed to climb trees. One of the biggest things is gorillas climb trees. They love being in trees. They eat from the trees. They'll sleep in the trees. And to this day, I've never seen a gorilla be allowed in a tree in a zoo. So they take their natural habits, they transform them into habits that'll be good for the viewer, the audience member, sit there on that log.

26:44 And we learned about hot wires in zoos. There's electric wires all over the place in the greenery to keep the animals from eating it. I mean, can you imagine if really a gorilla was acting the way they wanted to, they'd be climbing the trees, eating all the leaves. And when you look at their exhibits, you'll notice there's a lot of greenery. It's not fake. It's just electrified to shock them. So they don't know what's happening. They're now on a human schedule. They're going to eat at 8 a.m., have lunch at 4 p.m. That's extremely unnatural. And the diets that they're supposed to have, they don't have, and they're supposed to change all the time. So that creates a lot of heart issues and a lot of the gorillas will die earlier with heart disease and other issues as well.

27:29 So zookosis is the psychological devastation to these animals. And when you go to a zoo and you see them just sitting there going that's what's happening, they've shut down internally. And as Peter says, you're not going to learn anything from them because they're shut down and they're closed off. I'd also like to add that Ian Redmond, our biologist, mentions that the animals are bred for different characteristics or traits. So they will become more docile or they'll do certain behaviours that the zoo likes. So generations after generations, are you still looking at a gorilla or any other animal that's bred for certain traits?

28:19 Well, what struck me as I was researching this is that gorillas are our closest relatives in terms of our DNA. They're also the largest primates. So they are really as close as we're going to get to our ancestors because we stem from them. And that is the real tragedy that we are persecuting the very beings who are our own ancestors. Once again, you can watch Harambe for free on Unchained TV. I hope you do. Let's take a moment to learn a little more about Unchained TV. So it's a vegan Netflix.

29:00 Okay, that's the craziest thing I've ever heard. I love Unchained TV. Unchained, Unchained TV. Your life will change. It's just that easy. Unchained TV has all sorts of content for everybody. Unchained TV changed my life. Unchained TV is crushing it. I love Unchained TV. Unchained TV is my go-to. Unchained TV, who knew? Unchained, baby, yeah. All right, now you and I have something in common. And this is the personality side, the backstory of this incredible team.

29:40 Eric is a former paparazzi and he worked at TMZ, of course, the very well-known tabloid celebrity gossip site run by Harvey Levin. I also worked for Harvey Levin as a reporter on the precursor to TMZ, which was called Celebrity Justice. Interestingly enough, Harvey allowed me to do a lot of animal rights stories. I worked with PETA and other groups to get stories about celebrities advocating for animals on, and we won a couple of Genesis Awards. So TMZ paparazzi turns environmental activists.

30:22 Tell us your story. This is one of the headlines that really intrigued me. I'm like, wow, we have so much in common. I was a crime reporter for many years, decades, and yet my true passion was animal rights and still is. We have that in common. It's funny that Harvey would be at one of our intersections in time. For me, I was there at the beginning of TMZ and my job was to work at the airport. So I created that environment there on that television show. What I learned was how to think quickly, how to come up with good questions, and how to get people to interact with you while you're changing your lenses, walking backwards, and still getting a nice video or image.

31:15 So the training ground was incredible. One day I thought to myself, I'm battling cancer over and over, and what am I doing with my life? I want to go do something that will have an impact. So I wanted to take those skills that I had learned at TMZ. I had grown up in production, but this was a whole new world. I wanted to take those skills and take them to something that was important that could make a difference. So for me, it was a big transition to just say, you know what? I'm going directly into conservation and see what I can do and see how I can help out. So it was a big motivator for me to change over there. Plus, it was okay to not have celebrities getting mad at us anymore.

31:59 Oh, yeah. I chased a few celebrities down the street myself. And I agree with you, and I also relate to using the skills. Because the one thing you learn when you are reporting... I used to have a morning meeting with Harvey at 7 a.m. I had to have three story ideas, and the story had to be shot and edited by something like 11.30 in the morning. I mean, we work super, super, super, super fast. And we need to teach those skills to animal rights activists so that they can get things done quickly. I don't think a lot of the folks have any clue as to how fast we worked, because that deadline's breathing down our neck.

32:43 If you have to determine a story, shoot it, write it, edit it, and have it ready to go out before noon of the same day, that is an incredible training. And I try to use that myself. What are your thoughts on that? Exactly, exactly that. The fact is, it was live television every day, so we had to produce. And the thing is, when you start to look at any story, you can start to find a unique angle, you can start to find a unique way. And the other thing was, I really learned how to approach people that did not want to talk to me. Every now and then you get attacked, like where it happened to me a few times, unfortunately, semi-high profile.

33:26 But for the most part, how do you get somebody that normally wouldn't give you the time of day to talk to you? And that is one of the bigger things, because as conservationists, environmentalists, vegans, we believe in outreach and we believe in discussing things. We want to bring, like we tried to get the zoo involved several times in this movie. They refused, refused, refused. So we're always wanting to talk to the other side, wanting to bring everybody in, because until we get a big, inclusive discussion, the solutions are going to be more challenging. So I think that really made a big impact on how we wanted to do things. We wanted to try to be inclusive, friendly to everybody, and respectful to everybody that we have involved in our conversations.

34:10 Yeah, and that was definitely something that it taught me. And as well as, yes, making sure that we don't miss our deadlines. Yeah, and we've got some good news here. Nilo Farr says she's subscribed to Harambe, and she's going to plan a screening in Dallas, Texas. And she would love the two of you to be present for a Q&A session. And remember, you can watch this on Unchained TV, our free streaming network. Just go to watchunchainedtv.com. You can go to unchainedtv.com and just click watch now, stream now, and boom, you can watch it immediately.

34:50 So I hope everybody takes advantage, because I have to say, I also review a lot of animal rights environmental films. And what I really love about your film is it doesn't come off as preachy. It comes off as something that is like literally a true crime movie, like, oh, my God, it's shot and produced in an exciting way. And that's not to say it's exploitive. It's telling Harambe's story in a way that's going to get people to watch. We have to get people in the tent if we want them to watch. And just playing sad music and preaching ain't going to cut it. Your thoughts? So right, you know, Harambe's story is every captive animal story, and especially for zoo animals.

35:37 It's really something we wanted to dive into Harambe's story, but also show how it's connected to every other zoo captive animal there is out there. And we wanted to change that, you know. His death was, I don't want to say by design, but it was something that they had thought about. It's their protocol when something like that happens. And the next time it happens, it will happen again. And it's just really sad to see Harambe was replaced by Fiona, a baby hippo. And the sad, the really, the worst part is that it could happen to Fiona, too. So we want to make sure that that doesn't happen.

36:19 We're waging war on wildlife. Just today, I got a text that I couldn't even believe it. It was so disturbing. I want to make sure I have it right. I just texted somebody to say, can we stop this? CNN says Zimbabwe is going to call, call it what it is, kill, slaughter 200 elephants, defeat citizens left hungry by drought. This makes me insane. Oh, there we go. CNN. Now, when you click that, it plays. Zimbabwe has authorised a mass slaughter of elephants to feed citizens left hungry by the worst drought. Now, of course, I have tremendous compassion for anybody experiencing hunger.

37:02 In fact, if you want to end hunger worldwide, if we all transition to a plant -based diet, we could take all the food, which is a huge percentage of the food produced globally, that is fed to farmed animals, which is a very inefficient food source, and transition that food directly to people. We could end world hunger right now. You know, people don't realise 85 percent of the soybeans produced are fed to farmed animals. A huge percentage of all commodity crops aren't fed to people. They're fed to farmed animals. So if we reduce the number of farmed animals that we are raising and killing, billions and billions and billions of them every year, who are not just miraculously coming onto this planet, they are artificially inseminated by people, and took that food and diverted it to people, we could end world hunger.

37:56 We could live in a world of natural abundance where food is a right and everybody has whatever they need to eat. Instead, in our sick, sick, sick human supremacist mentality, we allow corporations to continue feeding all this food to artificially produced animals and then decide to kill elephants to feed people. It's so sick. It's so demented that I'm embarrassed to be a member of the human race. You know, that story really caught our attention because, you know, we've just been working a lot with elephants in Thailand, Africa, and a couple other areas here in the States, also in Canada.

38:44 And, you know, it's mismanagement leading to more mismanagement. But one thing we always find is poaching itself is indicative of poverty. And one way we can end poaching is to end world hunger and end that poverty that creates the opportunity for exploitation for people that are trying to just survive each day from major companies, other corporations, poachers, syndicates, things like that. So one of the ways we need to save the animals is to save the people. And the best way I think that we can do that is like you're saying, we fully believe that Peter Egan always says, to align our stomachs and our hearts together.

39:24 Because, you know, we need to approach the world with more love and empathy and compassion in order to get more of it circulating in order to save all the animals. And, you know, not only the fact that elephant meat is, I mean, that's even a terrible, terrible resource for them to give people. That's the equivalent of them feeding people dolphin and whale meat in Japan, as we learned in the cove, is extremely dangerous and in no way beneficial to the people eating it as well. Is there anything, my understanding is you just got back from Africa, is there anything we can do to stop this? I mean, I just, my mind is just blown by the sheer stupidity of this decision and that people are sort of accepting it.

40:12 Oh, this is what they're going to do. Hell no. I mean, do we need to go to the Zimbabwe consulates and the Zimbabwe embassy and have protests? What can we do right now to contact hunger organisations and say, don't let this happen. Send food. Send food there that people can eat. Exactly. There are so many companies that can step in right now that can be world food banks, all types of groups that can come in and help these people. I mean, I've never even heard of anybody offering elephants as a meat source anywhere. So the fact that that's not even outraging people, it's, I mean, it's so out of the ordinary.

40:53 I think what we need to do is make sure for one, the story stays going. You know, a lot of times in conservation, we get shocked and we get upset and we want to turn ourselves off, but we have to remember that as bad as humans are, we're also the solution. So the kind ones of us need to find solutions to fight against the ones that are purely exploitative. And I think, you know, we do need to let Zimbabwe know this is a no -go. You know, a lot of these countries are based on tourism. We were just in Tanzania. They have an amazing programme to save their animals. You can't coach, you can't do any of that. Tanzania. They are completely on top of keeping all elephants wild.

41:34 There are no captive elephants there. We're really amazed by. So, you know, these countries need to remember that if they're going to do this, they're going to have to pay the price. And I do think we should be out there, you know, mobilising and being in front of the Zimbabwe embassy, doing as many different ways to have our voices heard and to not let the story disappear. Where are you located right now? Where are you right now? Right now we're in Florida and we'll be back in LA next week. So you might see us out in front of the embassy there. Well, we should, I would be willing to organise a protest. We protest.

42:23 I The Turkish consulate in LA, I should say, but there were also demonstrations at consulates and embassies around the world. We protested against Turkey's decision to try to kill all the stray dogs and cats. We did several demonstrations there. There's been demonstrations, I believe against the Denmark consulate here in Los Angeles for the apprehension of a Sea Shepherd captain, co-founder, Paul Watson. So we could organise a very fast demonstration at the Zimbabwean consulate here in Los Angeles. I think it's something we should consider.

43:04 These elephants cannot speak for themselves. Elephants are endangered. We do stories all the time about the problems with elephants being under assault in India and Africa, you know, all over the place. And just to go out and proactively kill them is just completely insane. Let's talk about it. I think we should organise a protest for what day of the week now people who are watching get to see how animal rights happens. What day of the week are you back from in LA? I'll be back around the 27th of September. So maybe we could do like any day after that, maybe next week, the week after would be great.

43:51 Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think we might have to do something on my birthday, September 20th. Well, that's a Sunday, maybe Monday, September 30th. If it's not too late. I don't know when they're going out to kill these animals. It's never too late. Well, it is. If they say they're going to kill them, I'd like to know when they're going to kill them. I mean, it's just insane. Our human supremacy is at the root of all of this. And, you know, is it changing? You're an observer of this scene. Is it getting any better or is it getting worse? You know, it's tough.

44:32 You know, I am personally always optimistic about our ability to cause change. You know, when you look at stopping animal testing for cosmetics and the change over to that, although it has some issues, things can be changed. We do find more and more empathy growing further and further, especially as the vegan movement grows. People are a little bit less able to determine what they want to kill and what they want to love. And we need to love all of these animals and realise that, again, it's part of our biodiversity. Our success as a species depends on them. And we're all interdependent. We do see around the world always a series of some of the bad guys, but we find so many local people picking up the torch and fighting back and saying, no longer, we're not going to do this anymore, especially in places like Thailand, where we just were, where it is thousands and thousands of years of cultural normalcy to own elephants.

45:31 As a matter of fact, they're registered as motor vehicles in Thailand. But we have groups that are all for tourism. Now we have groups that are going in and they're unchaining them, which is why we love Unchain TV, because that is the best result. Unchain them, get them to a safe place. I think with the internet, we have a wider global community of activists and we have a lot more options now. And we just have to keep pushing and pushing and pushing and not maybe expect to see all the results we want in our lifetime, but to remember we can plant the tree and hopefully generations down can benefit animals and people. And you mentioned you were recently in Africa, I believe. Tell us about your other work, your other films.

46:16 Yeah, well, we saw a lot of wildlife in Tanzania and it was really, truly amazing and actually very inspirational. The way that they take care of their animals is just incredible. I've never seen anywhere in the world, actually. And it's really incredible to see that. And we can't really talk too much about that project, just that's about it for that one. But we do have some more projects coming out. Well, we also, you know, one thing about interesting about Africa is we wanted to show nature from a different perspective and we wanted to see it from a bird's point of view because they are off the ground.

46:56 And, you know, like when you get off land, sometimes you can see things better on land. So we went and actually followed a group of hang gliders that wanted to explore places like the Serengeti and other areas to get an idea of what was happening biodiversity wise, natural wise, and to do it in a way that required no oil and gas. So it's a completely all natural way of travel. So that was really interesting for us. We normally stick to activist pieces. We actually just finished a movie on Cancer Alley, which is a place down in Louisiana between New Orleans and Baton Rouge. It's an 85 mile stretch of the Mississippi River where it has 500 times minimum the national average cancer exposure and risk.

47:38 And it has over 200 petrochemical companies that are poisoning many communities that are dotted along the river. Us being a family that fights cancer a lot with my cancer and Sierra having to go through multiple radiations with me, multiple medicines, surgeries, you know, we want to stop environmental pollution that's causing cancer, especially for younger people. And we're learning that the cancer rates are skyrocketing right now due to environmental cancers. I have an environmental cancer. So we're very passionate about stories that attack the polluters that are attacking our environment. And the same with the people, the poachers that are attacking the animals that are also destroying the environment.

48:20 So I got to ask you, I am really blown away by how much you're doing. How do you fund this? You were a paparazzi. I mean, I'm sure you made some good money, but not to fund all of this, the travel, et cetera. How are you doing it? And also how do you manage to stay so prolific and so upbeat in the face of all this? Well, you know, I have to, I have to thank my cancer for staying upbeat because I was diagnosed 2005. I've had an environmental cancer. I've been battling it ever since. I've had over 13 surgeries. I've been through chemo multiple times.

49:02 I've been through radiation on different areas multiple times. I actually have a tumour right now in my neck that October 1st, we'll have a doctor's appointment to determine what kind of surgery we can do. But cancer taught me that every day really matters. And your frame of mind really matters because you always hit a point where you either have to throw it all away or pick it all up when you have cancer. I always say that it's either a death sentence or a life sentence. And if you're lucky enough to get a life sentence, I believe you really need to take advantage of that. So that's what really motivated us to get out into the field. We have a bunch of projects as well that we finished shooting that we're editing right now.

49:44 The challenge is funding. It's very hard to get funding, especially to talk about these topics. Sometimes we get people that are willing to step in and help us. Very often we'll have to go and work on projects, save up a little bit of money and go for unbelievably low budgets and go live somewhere in rough conditions to just get the movie done. New Orleans, it took us about three or four trips because we couldn't afford to stay there to shoot as long as we could. So it's a challenge. But the thing is, it's important. It's the most important thing that we can do in our lifetime. So we don't let any constraints stop us. If we have $800 to make a movie, we'll figure out how to do that.

50:29 And we'll beg, borrow. Let me say that Harambee is produced like it's a multi-million dollar production. And I think one of the reasons is that you have all the skills. So you don't have to hire an editor. You don't have to hire a cinematographer. And then going back again to your training as a paparazzi, you know how to grab things. You know how to get those dramatic moments. Because one of the things with paparazzi is every second counts. If you're too slow in taking your camera out, boom, it's gone. In fact, when I worked at Celebrity Justice, and this was before reporters started carrying around these things that just basically, we had cell phones, but people weren't using them the way they were using them today.

51:17 And I got myself a camera and started recording things because by the time the cameraman got his camera out of the back of the truck, the person who we were trying to videotape was long gone. And I got some blowback as a reporter for doing that. People were basically saying I was trying to put somebody out of a job. No, I was just trying to capture the moment. But you have these priceless skills that allow you to do stuff that would normally require a large crew of people. So I am so impressed. I can't wait. First of all, I want to thank you for allowing us to stream Harambe, this incredible movie, on our streaming network, Unchained TV.

52:02 And I'm urging everybody, watch it. That's Unchained TV behind me. And you can just literally find Harambe and click on it and watch it for free on your TV. We are on all streaming devices, Amazon Fire Stick, Roku device, Apple TV device. You just download it. You can also watch it on your phone if you want to, or you can watch it on a laptop. We do a free programming on Unchained TV. So wow. I am very, very inspired. And somebody else said that, that they are inspired by you because you're not just sitting there and complaining about the terrible conditions and the situation with animals.

52:50 You are really taking action rapidly, constantly, like you're on a breaking news story at all times. Is that just my imagination, Eric? That is how we do it. Because it is a breaking news story, right? Every second does count. And we are just part of a very large army fighting for a better future. And we have found family everywhere. And we're so happy to be on Unchained because we have a place now where we can really connect with a larger community and family that is going to be here to talk about all of these topics as we move forward, because they're all interrelated. Yes. And just for the record, Unchained TV is expanding to fast channels, free ad supported television channels, where we can then reach other audiences.

53:39 Because one of the reasons why I started Unchained TV is I had gone to one too many animal rights screenings where every single person in the room was already on board. And I thought, wow, we are in an echo chamber, in a bubble. This crucial information has to go out to the general public, not just people who are looking for it, but people who want free programming and they want something to watch. And a lot of times people want to watch something educational. I know I do. Sure, there are times when I want to watch basically just some Agatha Christie and unwind with some popcorn. But I also like to watch documentaries and learn something.

54:22 So I'm so excited to be collaborating with you. You're my heroes. Keep going, keep fighting the good fight. And I just was tickled that we had this backstory in common of both having been in the tabloid world and done our fair share of chasing celebrities and are now both using those skills to hopefully help animals. So I just want to thank you so much. And people are just sending well wishes, all the best for your health. Yes. Thank you. Eric is so inspiring and amazing. Thank you for all you do.

55:02 You inspire us. So know you're inspiring a lot of people. And again, everybody out there, you know, check out Unchained TV. We've got a lot of fun programming as well as incredible documentary. Discover Unchained TV and transform your life for free. Unchained TV is a nonprofit organisation producing plant based content filled with tips and tricks to spice up those healthy veggies, grains and legumes. For more information on Unchained TV productions, just visit unchained tv.com.

55:43 That's