UnchainedTV - TransFARMation: The Movement to Free us from Factory Farming

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Welcome to the Unchained TV podcast.

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I am your host, Jane Velez Mitchell.

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Wow, do we have an extraordinary guest for you today.

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The amazing Leah Garces, President of Mercy for Animals,

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and she is the author of this blockbuster game-changing

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new book, Transformation,

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the movement to free us from factory farming.

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Amazing, it's truly a game changer without further ado.

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Oh, let's go straight out to Leah Garces herself.

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Leah, just tell us in essence why you wrote this book.

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What is your bottom line message?

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Yeah, I wrote this book because I wanted to tell a story

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about people and animals closest to factory farming

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and how they were finding a way out to give us all hope

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that if they can find a way out,

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we can all find a way out of factory farming.

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Well, it's so extraordinary

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because I think it's the thing that our society needs

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more than anything else right now.

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And it's not just a book, it's a movement

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and Mercy for Animals has taken a lot of action.

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You've actually sent us some video

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of what you've been up to.

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So let us show that video

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and then we will discuss it on the other side.

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One, two, three.

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Ah!

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Woo!

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We are here for a ribbon cutting ceremony

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of our very first transformation hub here in North Carolina.

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It demonstrates everything we're moving away from

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and everything we're moving towards,

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which is a life after factory farming.

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It is so significant we're doing this in North Carolina.

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North Carolina has some of the highest concentration

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of both pig and chicken factory farms

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and it's growing.

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So we are right in the heart of it,

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showing that we are resisting factory farming

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and building a new, better way.

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My family is very, very excited

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because they used to work with me

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at the poultry house back then.

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And right now, I transitioned from poultry to a greenhouse.

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They're very excited and very happy for me

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on what I've been doing.

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Oh, wow.

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One of the big takeaways that I got watching this

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is that the chicken farmers

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are not the bad guys necessarily.

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They're also victims of industrialized animal agriculture.

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They are also trapped in this terrible system

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that leaves them in debt.

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Tell us about that

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and what happened with that particular farm.

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Yeah, Jane, the typical system

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is that there is a person living

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in some rural part of America

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and they wanna maintain a way of life.

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They want to either stay on the land

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because their family has owned it for generations

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or they want to raise a family there.

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And there's not a lot of employment.

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And so the chicken industry comes to town

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and they offer them a contract.

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And they say, all you have to do

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is take out about a million dollars or more from the bank

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to build structures, to build a factory farm.

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And we'll arrange that loan for you.

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And then we will bring you chickens.

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And with the money that you get per flock,

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you get to pay back that loan.

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So it's like a mortgage.

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They take these giant loans out.

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And at first it seems great

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because they're their own business person.

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They're living out their life

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in the rural area they wanted to,

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but it's a factory farm.

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So chickens start to get sick, they start dying

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and the farmers don't get paid

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if those animals don't make it.

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And so the mortgage stays the same

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but the payment starts getting less and less and less.

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And soon they realize that they're completely trapped

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and they are essentially all but indentured servants.

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And by then it's too late, they're stuck

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and they're stuck in this cycle of debt.

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And not only that, if they get close to paying off

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their debt, what happens is the company comes back

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and says, actually we need you to do some upgrades now.

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We need you to take another million dollars

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because the technology has changed.

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We need you to have new systems in place.

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And then they take another loan out

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and then they're behind again and again and again.

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And this happens to farmers all over the country.

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It is the way that chickens are raised in this country.

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And it's through this indentured servitude

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that contract farmers are stuck in.

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So let me ask you a question.

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How do they make that transition?

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You describe basically a farm in North Carolina

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going from poultry farming to plant-based

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and I'd love to know more about what plants.

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And how can they afford to make that transition

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when they're already in debt?

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Can you work us through the process?

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Because obviously this would be an amazing thing

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to happen at scale.

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Yeah, and that's a really good question.

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So most of the farmers that we work with

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are very close to paying off their debt

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and they're at that point at which the company

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is telling them that they need to get another loan out.

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And they're trying to decide, do we get further in debt?

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Do we keep going or do we make a change?

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And so this in one farmer in Texas,

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they said, no, we're not getting another loan out.

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We wanna make a change now.

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And that's how they got in touch with us

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and made the transition to hemp in that case.

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With Tom Lynn, he had been raising chickens with a company

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and they dropped his contract very suddenly.

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And he was looking for an alternative way

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to make ends meet.

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And that's how he got in touch with us.

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So in truth, if you add up all of the debts

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that poultry contract farmers have,

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it's about $5 billion.

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So we cannot solve this by like one by one by one.

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We are going to eventually need government intervention.

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We're going to need big changes at scale.

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Right now, we're just trying to do proof of concept.

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We're trying to show this is the roadmap.

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Farmers don't wanna do it like this.

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If they're given an alternative,

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they will move away from industrial animal agriculture

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to specialty crops like mushrooms and microgreens

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like you see in these videos.

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There is the need for government and policy change

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and subsidy shifts in order for this to succeed at scale.

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Well, it's funny you should mention that

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because I was reading the New York Times today

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and let me just show you,

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by the way, you're looking at footage

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of this transformed poultry warehouse

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that has now become this gorgeous

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and sustainable and peaceful greenhouse producing,

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I believe, microgreens.

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Yep, that's right.

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That's absolutely fantastic.

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Look how clean it is compared to what a poultry,

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CAFO-

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Yeah, literally where they were raising chickens before

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and we took the roof off.

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We put corrugated plastic kind of material in there

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and we're now growing microgreens,

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which is when we looked at the different products

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that farmers could make the most money on,

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specialty mushrooms was the highest profit margin

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and microgreens are the second.

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And there's other things like strawberries and blueberries

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and tomatoes and zinnia and like flowers

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and a ton of other options.

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And the great thing about this too

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is unlike chicken farming where you can only do chickens

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and that's it and you have to do it

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the way the company tells you to do it

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and you're not allowed to innovate or do anything better.

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In this case, you can change your mind.

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You can innovate as a farmer

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as most farmers are very innovative, hardworking people.

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They're given that freedom, that true economic freedom

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that is denied in a factory farm setting.

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And Tina says he will make millions.

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I think we all hope she's right.

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Here's a question from one of our viewers.

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Do these reformed farmers become ambassadors

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and assist with transitioning

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their animal farmer neighborhoods?

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That is such a great question.

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So part of Mercy for Animals Transformation Project

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is to do exactly that,

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is we're trying to get eight to 10 farmers each year

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who become spokespeople in their communities.

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And they're really speaking about how to change,

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why to change and even stopping and preventing

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future farmers from making the same mistakes

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they did in the past.

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And we have a program that farmers can move through

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where they even get media training.

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We want this to be a ripple effect

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where no one owns the idea and it's available to anyone.

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We make the blueprints available,

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the economic, the agriculture, you know,

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spreadsheets available to any farmer who wants it.

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And it's all about getting the idea out there

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and creating that ripple effect

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so anyone can transition who wants to

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away from factory farming.

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So here's the book,

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Transformation, The Movement to Free Us

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from Factory Farming.

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I am listening to it on Audible as I walk my dogs

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and I'm enjoying every second of it, learning so much.

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So you can order it by just going to beacon.org,

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B-E-A-C-O-N.org forward slash transformation.

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Not transformation, even though it's a transformation,

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it's transformation, a play on words.

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I urge everybody to get it, whether you get it,

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Kindle or hard copy or Audible,

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do it because it's a roadmap for saving our planet,

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saving our society, saving animals, saving our health.

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And to that end, I wanna talk a little bit about,

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okay, the New York Times.

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This is the front page of the New York Times today.

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And I'm not talking partisan politics here.

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I'm talking about a $2.4 trillion debt

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according to the nonpartisan budget office.

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And yet still, despite all this,

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the subsidies remain entrenched in these bills.

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What drives me crazy is that we could radically

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reduce healthcare costs and make people healthier

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and give taxpayers more of their money back

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if we stop subsidizing animal agriculture.

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You talk about this in your book,

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the subsidies to animal agriculture,

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how they affect consumer buying patterns.

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I don't call it capitalism.

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I call it corporate socialism

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because so much money is going to prop up this industry

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and it's our tax dollars going to prop up the industry.

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Can you break it down for us?

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Could you really talk about this

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very eloquently in your book?

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Yeah, I recently heard Ethan Brown from Beyond Burger

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put it so succinctly.

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He said, factory farming is held together by duct tape,

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subsidies, and antibiotics.

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And really there are two pillars

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that allow for factory farming to persist.

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And one is subsidies and two is antibiotics.

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And in the case of subsidies,

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so much money is going to prop up this system.

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It's a fraction.

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A fraction goes to nuts and berries.

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When you find it cheaper to buy chicken nuggets

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than blueberries,

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there is something really wrong with this system.

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And it wouldn't be,

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so one of our proposals

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is that we really need to shift these subsidies

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away from factory farming

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and towards transitioning farmers

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towards healthier food systems.

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And it wouldn't be the first time

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that we have done something like this.

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In the Reagan administration,

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there was a Tobacco Reform Act.

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And that was where,

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because there were health concerns,

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the administration said,

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we are no longer going to support tobacco farming.

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Before that,

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it was all supported by government subsidies,

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government support, government quotas.

268
00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:57,720
And the government said no more.

269
00:11:57,940 --> 00:11:59,660
And they did a buyout program.

270
00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:01,180
It was like a big program

271
00:12:01,180 --> 00:12:04,460
where farmers could opt out of tobacco farming

272
00:12:04,460 --> 00:12:06,240
and transition to something else.

273
00:12:06,580 --> 00:12:08,260
And they were given a certain period of time.

274
00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:10,520
And overnight, within one year or two years,

275
00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:11,500
half of the farmers,

276
00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:13,280
when they were offered this buyout,

277
00:12:13,680 --> 00:12:14,660
transitioned to something else.

278
00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:17,040
They got out of tobacco farming.

279
00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:19,220
So we have a real model

280
00:12:19,220 --> 00:12:21,140
for how we can move away.

281
00:12:21,500 --> 00:12:23,220
And we've done it before in history

282
00:12:23,220 --> 00:12:24,980
where we can move away from factory farming.

283
00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:26,600
It only exists now

284
00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:28,700
because of the support that it receives

285
00:12:28,700 --> 00:12:29,700
through government subsidies.

286
00:12:29,780 --> 00:12:31,360
Right now, even through avian flu,

287
00:12:31,580 --> 00:12:34,900
where we're supporting through purchasing

288
00:12:34,900 --> 00:12:37,220
of when animals get sick,

289
00:12:37,300 --> 00:12:38,820
they're being reimbursed

290
00:12:38,820 --> 00:12:41,000
when these animals are killed.

291
00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:43,620
Instead of getting to the root of the cause

292
00:12:43,620 --> 00:12:44,920
and saying, why are these animals sick

293
00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:45,520
in the first place?

294
00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:48,060
Because they're in filthy squalor conditions

295
00:12:48,060 --> 00:12:49,620
where disease spreads easily.

296
00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:53,520
So I really believe we already have a model

297
00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:56,720
in history where this has occurred.

298
00:12:56,900 --> 00:12:57,960
And we could repeat that.

299
00:12:58,120 --> 00:12:59,620
Cory Booker has tried to do that

300
00:12:59,620 --> 00:13:02,060
through the Farm Systems Reform Act.

301
00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:03,080
And in that proposal,

302
00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:08,560
he says that farmers would be given a debt cancellation

303
00:13:09,100 --> 00:13:11,680
for any debt they have around contracts

304
00:13:11,680 --> 00:13:13,480
and poultry or pigs.

305
00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:15,200
And then they could transition

306
00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:16,800
and get a certain amount of money

307
00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:18,800
to transition to healthier food systems.

308
00:13:18,980 --> 00:13:19,900
And so we have a model

309
00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:22,440
and I feel like it's just time

310
00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:23,980
to start moving towards that model.

311
00:13:24,020 --> 00:13:25,360
And it very much fits honestly

312
00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:27,040
with this idea of like no government waste.

313
00:13:27,140 --> 00:13:28,580
We're wasting tons of money

314
00:13:29,580 --> 00:13:32,320
just subsidizing and propping up factory farming.

315
00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:34,600
I mean, that's the thing.

316
00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:37,160
This is the era of let's cut.

317
00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:39,360
We had Doge trying to cut everything

318
00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:41,760
and obviously it was very controversial.

319
00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:43,400
I'm not getting into that,

320
00:13:43,460 --> 00:13:44,820
but if you are gonna cut

321
00:13:44,820 --> 00:13:47,100
and your idea is to cut,

322
00:13:47,300 --> 00:13:51,040
why not cut what is the most environmentally

323
00:13:52,380 --> 00:13:53,740
destructive industry,

324
00:13:54,060 --> 00:13:55,200
terrible for our health,

325
00:13:55,660 --> 00:13:57,940
just devastating in so many ways.

326
00:13:58,200 --> 00:13:59,480
And to that end,

327
00:13:59,960 --> 00:14:02,720
Mercy for Animals was featured recently

328
00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:03,940
here in Los Angeles.

329
00:14:03,940 --> 00:14:06,160
We had LA Climate Week.

330
00:14:06,220 --> 00:14:07,280
As part of that,

331
00:14:07,560 --> 00:14:09,820
we had the West Hollywood Food Day

332
00:14:09,820 --> 00:14:11,240
with Plant Based Treaty

333
00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:12,860
and the city of West Hollywood

334
00:14:12,860 --> 00:14:14,720
discussing food systems.

335
00:14:15,180 --> 00:14:18,200
Mercy for Animals had a representative there

336
00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:20,240
and she made some incredible points

337
00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:23,120
about the destructiveness of animal agriculture

338
00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:26,560
and how we have to address this as a society.

339
00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:29,340
Along with a delicious plant-based spread,

340
00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:32,460
speakers laid out why going plant-based

341
00:14:32,460 --> 00:14:34,580
is absolutely crucial.

342
00:14:34,860 --> 00:14:36,620
Animal agriculture is one of the leading causes

343
00:14:36,620 --> 00:14:39,180
of climate change and water and air pollution,

344
00:14:39,300 --> 00:14:41,140
but it is the single leading cause

345
00:14:41,140 --> 00:14:43,380
of deforestation, species extinction,

346
00:14:43,660 --> 00:14:46,260
biodiversity loss, ocean acidification,

347
00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:48,000
ocean dead zones, soil erosion.

348
00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:50,300
I mean, there are so many things

349
00:14:50,300 --> 00:14:53,180
that this industry contributes to.

350
00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:55,520
And I think that's a really great way

351
00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:57,720
to start relating to other people.

352
00:14:57,940 --> 00:14:59,180
Everyone cares about something

353
00:14:59,180 --> 00:15:01,140
and we can tap into their passions

354
00:15:01,140 --> 00:15:02,440
to drive them to action.

355
00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:04,700
West Hollywood has now made history.

356
00:15:05,220 --> 00:15:07,320
All of their official city events

357
00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:09,560
are now plant-based by default.

358
00:15:10,100 --> 00:15:12,000
West Hollywood Mayor Chelsea Byers

359
00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:13,720
revealed that all she needed

360
00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:16,500
was a little push from advocacy groups.

361
00:15:16,660 --> 00:15:18,180
What it took for me was just hearing

362
00:15:18,180 --> 00:15:19,440
that this idea was out there.

363
00:15:19,660 --> 00:15:22,000
When Mercy for Animals started knocking on my inbox

364
00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:24,620
and asking me as somebody who was situated

365
00:15:24,620 --> 00:15:26,160
as, you know, in my bio,

366
00:15:26,340 --> 00:15:27,860
it said I cared about climate change.

367
00:15:28,140 --> 00:15:30,220
Our city was a city in our climate action plan

368
00:15:30,220 --> 00:15:31,700
that addressed factory farming

369
00:15:31,700 --> 00:15:34,600
and mass agriculture as a problem with climate change.

370
00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:36,760
So there was sort of all of this in a matrix

371
00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:37,720
that would line up and be like,

372
00:15:37,820 --> 00:15:39,560
yeah, that makes sense to go target them.

373
00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:41,300
But now what else makes sense?

374
00:15:41,860 --> 00:15:45,320
So you are doing so much at Mercy for Animals.

375
00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:48,360
The organization was mentioned several times

376
00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:53,240
also by an official from the LA County Supervisor's Office

377
00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:56,240
who talked about all the ways you're working

378
00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:58,020
with the LA County Supervisors.

379
00:15:58,020 --> 00:16:03,600
The most populous county in the United States

380
00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:07,700
with a population greater than 40 US states combined.

381
00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:10,900
So first of all, kudos to all those things

382
00:16:10,900 --> 00:16:11,660
that you're doing.

383
00:16:12,220 --> 00:16:13,480
Tell us a little bit about that

384
00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:15,180
because it seems like you're having some impact

385
00:16:15,180 --> 00:16:17,820
on local governments and yet the federal government

386
00:16:17,820 --> 00:16:19,420
seems to remain immovable.

387
00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:21,220
Yeah, I think the federal government

388
00:16:21,220 --> 00:16:23,240
is a really challenging place to make progress,

389
00:16:23,540 --> 00:16:26,320
but cities and states and counties

390
00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:28,980
are a wonderful place to make progress, especially cities.

391
00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:31,020
And as you just pointed out,

392
00:16:31,140 --> 00:16:35,260
West Hollywood has adopted a plant-based by default policy,

393
00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:36,760
which means that all of their events,

394
00:16:36,860 --> 00:16:39,400
and they host a giant pride event, by the way,

395
00:16:39,460 --> 00:16:40,720
like a massive pride event,

396
00:16:40,780 --> 00:16:43,680
one of the most attended pride events in the country.

397
00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:45,900
And everything there that is hosted by the city

398
00:16:45,900 --> 00:16:47,400
will be plant-based by default.

399
00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:52,740
And this is a very good policy

400
00:16:52,740 --> 00:16:55,920
in terms of what we call nudge, don't judge.

401
00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:58,340
We were inviting people to try plant-based

402
00:16:58,340 --> 00:16:59,680
without forcing it on them.

403
00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:01,300
So you're saying, we're not taking away your options.

404
00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:03,339
You can still add them if you want to,

405
00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:06,000
but our first offering will be plant-based.

406
00:17:06,180 --> 00:17:08,000
And there's been studies done that,

407
00:17:08,579 --> 00:17:10,980
there was a study done where you compared a conference.

408
00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:15,859
In one conference, they offered the meat as the default

409
00:17:15,859 --> 00:17:17,200
and you had to add the vegan option.

410
00:17:17,300 --> 00:17:19,140
And the other one, they had the vegan

411
00:17:19,140 --> 00:17:22,180
and you had to add the meat as the default.

412
00:17:22,540 --> 00:17:23,280
And when they did that,

413
00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:26,280
there was an 80% reduction in meat consumption

414
00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:28,680
when you had the vegan by default policy.

415
00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:31,840
Meaning most people are just going along with the flow.

416
00:17:32,020 --> 00:17:33,040
They're going with the flow.

417
00:17:33,540 --> 00:17:36,040
And very few, especially for one meal,

418
00:17:36,140 --> 00:17:38,080
are just gonna add it on intentionally

419
00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:39,300
and choose to have it.

420
00:17:39,360 --> 00:17:40,480
They're willing to try things

421
00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:41,740
that are just put in front of them

422
00:17:41,740 --> 00:17:43,300
and that everyone is doing around them.

423
00:17:43,380 --> 00:17:45,200
So we're really capitalizing

424
00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:49,520
on that sort of psychological flow that people are in.

425
00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:52,740
And we're looking at counties and cities

426
00:17:52,740 --> 00:17:56,200
that could adopt a default policy.

427
00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:58,820
And really most counties and cities

428
00:17:58,820 --> 00:18:01,460
have some kind of policy around reducing emissions.

429
00:18:01,540 --> 00:18:03,040
And what's become very, very clear

430
00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:05,820
is we are not going to reach our climate change goals.

431
00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:07,760
That goal of reducing,

432
00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:10,760
keeping the planet no hotter than 1.5 degrees Celsius

433
00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:12,540
if we don't address food.

434
00:18:12,860 --> 00:18:16,040
And within food, if we don't address meat, dairy, and eggs.

435
00:18:16,580 --> 00:18:19,240
And Mercy for Animals sees this as a priority

436
00:18:19,570 --> 00:18:24,060
in terms of a way to tackle reducing suffering of animals

437
00:18:24,060 --> 00:18:25,780
and a way to tackle ending factory farming.

438
00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:31,380
Yes, and reducing the suffering of animals, obviously key.

439
00:18:31,740 --> 00:18:34,860
And we don't wanna give you too much unpleasant footage.

440
00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:39,020
People don't wanna see it, but yet that is the reality.

441
00:18:39,500 --> 00:18:42,560
There's no nice way to kill more than 80 billion animals,

442
00:18:42,740 --> 00:18:45,700
which is what we're doing in today's society.

443
00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:48,700
And sadly, let's just talk a little bit

444
00:18:48,700 --> 00:18:50,440
about the unfortunate stats.

445
00:18:50,620 --> 00:18:52,760
The meat consumption is still going up.

446
00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:55,580
You address this in your book saying that

447
00:18:55,580 --> 00:19:00,080
from 2007 to 2014, meat consumption actually declined

448
00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:03,280
and then it turned around and started climbing again.

449
00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:04,940
What do you make of it?

450
00:19:05,580 --> 00:19:07,820
Yeah, and I don't know if you remember, Jane,

451
00:19:07,900 --> 00:19:09,880
that moment where we were like, we're winning, we're winning.

452
00:19:10,120 --> 00:19:11,760
And it wasn't, we were not winning.

453
00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:16,360
What was happening was that other economic factors

454
00:19:16,360 --> 00:19:20,040
were playing, were causing some decision-making.

455
00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:22,120
So meat prices went up.

456
00:19:22,340 --> 00:19:23,360
That was the big factor.

457
00:19:23,820 --> 00:19:27,980
So we had the recession in 2008.

458
00:19:28,180 --> 00:19:30,160
So people had less money to spend.

459
00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:33,180
And then we had corn prices just skyrocket.

460
00:19:33,420 --> 00:19:34,520
Corn is fed to chickens.

461
00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:36,320
Chicken prices went up as a result.

462
00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:39,200
And then there was also some disease outbreaks in pigs

463
00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:43,380
that caused further problems in terms of price.

464
00:19:43,380 --> 00:19:46,920
So basically the cost of meat went up dramatically

465
00:19:47,500 --> 00:19:49,540
and people had less money to spend.

466
00:19:49,740 --> 00:19:53,380
So that combination meant people started eating less meat.

467
00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:55,620
And we thought we were winning,

468
00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:57,860
but it turned out it was just economic,

469
00:19:58,580 --> 00:20:00,940
economy playing, putting into play.

470
00:20:01,580 --> 00:20:04,380
And, but that does give us a clue, I think,

471
00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:07,100
as to what we need to do.

472
00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:10,060
And what I think needs to happen is meat, dairy and eggs

473
00:20:10,060 --> 00:20:11,700
needs to bear the true cost,

474
00:20:11,700 --> 00:20:13,400
which is why we need to get rid of the subsidies.

475
00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:16,960
We can't outsource the pain and suffering

476
00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:20,020
to vulnerable populations like workers, farmers and animals.

477
00:20:20,860 --> 00:20:23,640
And if we had the true cost,

478
00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:25,400
if we had the true cost of meat,

479
00:20:25,500 --> 00:20:28,560
it would be probably four or five times what it costs.

480
00:20:28,860 --> 00:20:30,360
And that would automatically cause people

481
00:20:30,360 --> 00:20:32,420
to eat dramatically less as a result.

482
00:20:33,220 --> 00:20:36,300
I love the fact that you're focusing on poultry farms,

483
00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:40,040
although I know you're also gonna include pig farms,

484
00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:42,560
hog farms, because chickens are by far,

485
00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:43,900
if you look at these stats,

486
00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:47,220
the number one animal for food.

487
00:20:47,900 --> 00:20:52,000
And so if we actually just won on chickens,

488
00:20:52,860 --> 00:20:54,680
that would be extraordinary.

489
00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:59,100
And some of these chickens are killed for eggs.

490
00:21:00,060 --> 00:21:01,620
Male chicks are macerated.

491
00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:05,700
Now with bird flu causing egg prices to go up,

492
00:21:05,780 --> 00:21:08,800
you're seeing a skyrocketing consumption

493
00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:10,140
of plant-based eggs.

494
00:21:10,460 --> 00:21:13,480
We've interviewed Josh Tetrick, the founder of Just Eggs,

495
00:21:13,620 --> 00:21:17,940
and he's told us that his sales are shooting up.

496
00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:19,280
So there is an alternative.

497
00:21:19,540 --> 00:21:20,980
It's not a sacrifice.

498
00:21:21,460 --> 00:21:24,360
So let's get back to the chicken farm

499
00:21:24,360 --> 00:21:27,480
that you've transitioned and tell us,

500
00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:30,740
it seems like, wow, it's fantastic,

501
00:21:30,940 --> 00:21:33,720
but it's obviously a very in-depth process.

502
00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:37,940
What I've heard is that some of these chicken warehouses

503
00:21:37,940 --> 00:21:42,080
are so filled with toxicity and dirt

504
00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:44,760
that they can't be easily transitioned

505
00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:47,820
because they're just so filthy and so toxic.

506
00:21:48,060 --> 00:21:49,620
So what are some of the challenges?

507
00:21:50,420 --> 00:21:51,080
Yeah, certainly.

508
00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:53,380
I mean, we can't grow things right in the ground

509
00:21:53,380 --> 00:21:56,120
in these places because it's full of dust and ammonia

510
00:21:56,120 --> 00:21:57,580
and toxicity, as you mentioned.

511
00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:00,160
So that would be brought into the plants

512
00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:01,400
and then we couldn't sell those.

513
00:22:01,500 --> 00:22:04,900
So one of the most viable options is mushrooms.

514
00:22:05,500 --> 00:22:09,680
And Tom Lim in this clip that you're seeing here,

515
00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:12,500
he's actually growing mushrooms in a container.

516
00:22:12,780 --> 00:22:16,880
So imagine like a cargo container, we put HVAC in it.

517
00:22:17,220 --> 00:22:20,180
We have the old shelves that used to be used for chicken,

518
00:22:20,500 --> 00:22:23,940
like barriers and dividers are being used.

519
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:26,060
And so that's a contained environment

520
00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:27,540
that can be put anywhere.

521
00:22:27,700 --> 00:22:29,720
It could be put inside the greenhouse

522
00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:32,380
or it could be put outside of the greenhouse.

523
00:22:33,060 --> 00:22:34,520
So that's a really viable option

524
00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:37,460
when the ground isn't safe.

525
00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:39,980
The other is what you're seeing in these clips,

526
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:41,660
which is these raised beds.

527
00:22:41,780 --> 00:22:42,920
So putting in raised beds,

528
00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:46,420
but then you're using the warehouse as a greenhouse.

529
00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:49,580
So you reconstruct it, it's the same frame,

530
00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:52,660
but you're allowing light to come in and air to come in.

531
00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:58,280
So there's definitely challenges in using the equipment

532
00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:00,140
and sort of upcycling the equipment,

533
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:02,800
but these farmers are so creative

534
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:05,460
and they're so willing and innovative

535
00:23:06,120 --> 00:23:08,480
that we're coming up with all kinds of solutions.

536
00:23:08,660 --> 00:23:09,780
And this is just one option.

537
00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:12,000
This is sort of one way a farmer's doing it.

538
00:23:12,060 --> 00:23:13,700
We have another farmer in Iowa

539
00:23:14,340 --> 00:23:16,140
who's strictly doing mushrooms

540
00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:19,040
and that's the Fauborg family.

541
00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:21,820
And they used to raise pigs for a company.

542
00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:24,700
We have others that are doing,

543
00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:25,720
they used to raise chickens

544
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:29,420
and they're growing cherry tomatoes and zinnia.

545
00:23:29,970 --> 00:23:32,800
So the options are kind of unlimited

546
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:35,720
depending on how a farmer, what they're motivated by

547
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:37,500
and also what their local market looks like.

548
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:39,280
So the one that's doing zinnia

549
00:23:39,650 --> 00:23:41,180
and she's also doing peppers,

550
00:23:41,460 --> 00:23:44,240
like ghost peppers and tomatoes,

551
00:23:44,620 --> 00:23:48,660
she's got a partnership with a local caterer

552
00:23:48,660 --> 00:23:50,040
who will just take everything

553
00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:51,740
and anything she has that is fresh.

554
00:23:51,940 --> 00:23:54,700
So she grows this stuff, she brings it to the caterer,

555
00:23:54,740 --> 00:23:57,040
he does like weddings and events and things like that.

556
00:23:57,240 --> 00:23:59,000
So it kind of depends on the local market too.

557
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:01,780
But what it does allow for is a lot of economic freedom,

558
00:24:02,360 --> 00:24:06,000
a lot of innovativeness from the farmer

559
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:09,280
and really building that local economy.

560
00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:13,580
I wish that every single member of Congress

561
00:24:15,100 --> 00:24:17,680
were forced to read your book.

562
00:24:18,100 --> 00:24:20,160
Is there any way you can deliver it at least

563
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:23,840
to every single congressional office and give it to them?

564
00:24:24,220 --> 00:24:27,160
I'd be happy to start a Kickstarter to make that happen.

565
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:27,880
You know what?

566
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:29,300
That's not a bad idea, Jane.

567
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:30,180
I like that idea.

568
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:31,380
I might circle back with you

569
00:24:31,380 --> 00:24:33,980
and bring the book to Congress.

570
00:24:34,220 --> 00:24:35,120
I love that idea.

571
00:24:35,860 --> 00:24:36,300
Absolutely.

572
00:24:36,820 --> 00:24:39,180
I mean, it would be also great

573
00:24:39,180 --> 00:24:40,620
from a social media perspective

574
00:24:40,620 --> 00:24:43,000
to show you delivering the books

575
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:44,700
and then follow up and say,

576
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:46,800
have you read the book?

577
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:48,680
Because there's solutions there.

578
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,680
They say there's no way to convince somebody

579
00:24:53,460 --> 00:24:57,780
of a solution that's going to cost them money.

580
00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:01,660
But truly, I think what's happening right now

581
00:25:01,660 --> 00:25:03,960
with such a focus on saving money,

582
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:07,480
it can be, I would call politically neutral.

583
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:10,980
This is not a left or a right even issue.

584
00:25:11,180 --> 00:25:14,040
It's a question of a waste of taxpayer money,

585
00:25:14,120 --> 00:25:16,200
which is a bipartisan concern.

586
00:25:16,660 --> 00:25:19,520
And I think that there's a way to bypass

587
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:22,900
the partisan political divide

588
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:26,440
and just say, this is a complete waste of money.

589
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:29,480
And the amazing thing is that

590
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:34,100
if they were to stop subsidizing animal agriculture,

591
00:25:34,620 --> 00:25:39,800
making the true cost of cheap hamburgers,

592
00:25:40,500 --> 00:25:42,540
double cheeseburgers, milkshakes,

593
00:25:43,100 --> 00:25:44,860
what they should cost,

594
00:25:45,180 --> 00:25:46,860
people would switch to healthy food

595
00:25:46,860 --> 00:25:50,060
and the healthcare costs in America would drop.

596
00:25:50,300 --> 00:25:52,240
In your book, you talk about the fact

597
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:54,640
that processed meat is cancer causing,

598
00:25:55,060 --> 00:25:57,380
that red meat is a likely carcinogen,

599
00:25:57,620 --> 00:25:59,780
that people are dying of heart attacks

600
00:25:59,780 --> 00:26:02,080
from food packed with cholesterol.

601
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:04,340
There's no cholesterol in vegan products.

602
00:26:04,860 --> 00:26:07,920
I mean, it's a win, win, win, win, win,

603
00:26:07,980 --> 00:26:09,500
like for everybody moving away

604
00:26:09,500 --> 00:26:11,140
from this unhealthy food system.

605
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:12,700
I always tell people about chicken.

606
00:26:12,700 --> 00:26:19,060
Chicken is so unbelievably unsafe in this country.

607
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:21,820
It concerns me when anybody is eating it.

608
00:26:22,380 --> 00:26:25,860
It literally has to be dipped in chlorine in this country.

609
00:26:26,380 --> 00:26:28,020
Chicken is dipped in chlorine

610
00:26:28,580 --> 00:26:30,660
before it is sold to consumers.

611
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:34,180
And if you don't believe me, Google that, it's true.

612
00:26:34,420 --> 00:26:38,200
And it's so true that Europe will not accept our chickens

613
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:39,440
because it's dipped in chlorine,

614
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:41,540
because that's against the law in Europe.

615
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,620
So, and why is our chicken dipped in chlorine?

616
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:46,720
Because it's full of salmonella,

617
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:48,320
it's full of campylobacter.

618
00:26:49,020 --> 00:26:52,820
It has, chicken is considered one of the highest sources

619
00:26:52,820 --> 00:26:54,840
of campylobacter poisoning in this country.

620
00:26:55,460 --> 00:26:57,680
And it's concerning to me

621
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:00,120
that we have a food system like that.

622
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:04,740
And if you add in the fact that all of our meat

623
00:27:04,740 --> 00:27:07,080
is propped up by antibiotics

624
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:10,980
and antibiotics are being used to protect these animals

625
00:27:10,980 --> 00:27:12,940
in filthy environments.

626
00:27:13,380 --> 00:27:14,760
And instead of cleaning up the environment,

627
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:16,260
we're just feeding them antibiotics

628
00:27:16,260 --> 00:27:18,480
to both protect them from disease,

629
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:21,100
but also to help them grow faster

630
00:27:21,100 --> 00:27:22,720
because they discovered the antibiotics

631
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:25,300
help the animals grow really, really big, really fast.

632
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:29,080
And we're wasting vital antibiotics

633
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:30,720
that could be used for ourselves.

634
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,400
And we may have a future where antibiotics don't work

635
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:36,960
because we've wasted them on tortured animals, essentially.

636
00:27:37,620 --> 00:27:41,500
By the way, we get a great comment from one of our viewers.

637
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:43,020
This is a very interesting program.

638
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:45,500
As an abolitionist, I would not have given a moment

639
00:27:45,500 --> 00:27:46,840
to animal welfare groups,

640
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:49,000
but this program is changing my view on MFA,

641
00:27:49,120 --> 00:27:51,040
which is doing excellent work for animal liberation.

642
00:27:51,660 --> 00:27:54,180
Oh, thank you, I appreciate that.

643
00:27:54,580 --> 00:27:56,800
Yeah, I will say like, I'm both,

644
00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:59,380
I'm an abolitionist and I'm a pragmatist.

645
00:27:59,620 --> 00:28:05,100
So I both think about, and the kind of way I look at it,

646
00:28:05,100 --> 00:28:07,360
the analogy I often use is imagine

647
00:28:07,360 --> 00:28:10,000
that you're a prisoner in death row

648
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:12,160
and you're in horrible conditions.

649
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:14,280
Would you want somebody advocating

650
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:17,440
both for making your conditions less horrible

651
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:19,100
while also at food?

652
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:21,560
I don't want a single animal to suffer for that.

653
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:23,960
And I think of the pragmatic steps to get there,

654
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:25,800
which is like increasing the cost

655
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:29,040
and making it, internalizing the cost

656
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:31,740
so that people eat less and move us in the right direction.

657
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:33,480
I think we need both of those approaches.

658
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:36,280
Absolutely, I agree with you a hundred percent.

659
00:28:36,740 --> 00:28:39,740
And, you know, I just wanna say that

660
00:28:40,420 --> 00:28:43,600
you raise the issue of cruelty to animals.

661
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:46,280
And one of the most unconscionable aspects

662
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:49,040
of industrialized agriculture is what they're doing

663
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:51,580
to chickens and other animals, pigs,

664
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:55,480
culling them in a process called ventilation shutdown,

665
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:57,560
VSD or VSD plus.

666
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:02,640
This is a very sick, it makes my stomach just go in knots

667
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:03,460
when I look at this.

668
00:29:03,900 --> 00:29:06,940
They're roasting this poor animal alive as a test.

669
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:10,240
Ventilation shutdown has been described

670
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:12,780
as a brutal painful method of animal depopulation.

671
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:14,640
These mass killings deviate

672
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:16,240
from normal slaughterhouse procedures

673
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:20,680
and are now being used in the pork and poultry industries.

674
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:22,900
And according to one report,

675
00:29:23,020 --> 00:29:25,160
more than 300 million poultry birds

676
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:26,760
have been killed since 2021.

677
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:28,880
I know the figure is even higher now.

678
00:29:29,420 --> 00:29:32,160
Unfortunately, instead of putting these companies

679
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:36,440
out of business, again, the taxpayers are being forced

680
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:38,420
to subsidize this horror.

681
00:29:39,500 --> 00:29:41,740
2000 veterinarians have signed a letter saying

682
00:29:41,740 --> 00:29:44,220
it is not acceptable.

683
00:29:44,780 --> 00:29:46,820
Oh, what are your thoughts on ventilation shutdown?

684
00:29:47,300 --> 00:29:48,940
Yeah, I'm so glad you brought this up

685
00:29:48,940 --> 00:29:51,640
because I feel like it's really gone under the radar lately.

686
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:54,020
You know, ventilation shutdown,

687
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:57,180
imagine like you're on the New York City subway.

688
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:00,460
Imagine you're, it's crowded, it's rush hour.

689
00:30:00,660 --> 00:30:04,060
And then all of a sudden all the windows are blocked.

690
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:06,680
All of the ventilation is shut

691
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:09,560
and you're inside of this thing with tons of people.

692
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:12,720
It gets hotter and hotter and hotter and hotter.

693
00:30:12,900 --> 00:30:14,940
There's less and less oxygen until you pass out

694
00:30:14,940 --> 00:30:15,600
and then you die.

695
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:18,120
That is what happens in ventilation shutdown.

696
00:30:18,580 --> 00:30:22,780
This is an approved method for disposing of sick animals.

697
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,580
It is unbelievably cruel and it should be illegal.

698
00:30:26,580 --> 00:30:31,220
But instead they get payouts from the government

699
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:33,540
for doing this, the companies themselves,

700
00:30:33,700 --> 00:30:34,320
the farmers themselves.

701
00:30:34,780 --> 00:30:37,360
So instead of a company having to pay for this,

702
00:30:37,540 --> 00:30:41,660
so if let's say Tyson were to have to actually pay for this,

703
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:44,240
you can bet that they would solve it.

704
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:46,680
But instead they're just getting a band-aid.

705
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:47,860
They're just getting a paycheck.

706
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:50,480
So they don't think twice about trying to solve this.

707
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:52,160
They think there's another bunch of chickens

708
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:53,780
that are gonna come along and it doesn't matter.

709
00:30:54,340 --> 00:30:57,120
So this is horrifically cruel.

710
00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:58,120
It's solvable.

711
00:30:58,300 --> 00:30:59,380
It should not be happening.

712
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:03,080
And if we made companies pay for this loss,

713
00:31:03,260 --> 00:31:05,600
for the loss of animals, they would solve it.

714
00:31:05,700 --> 00:31:07,100
They would not keep letting it happen.

715
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:08,920
But instead our tax dollars are going to pay

716
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:09,500
for this cruelty.

717
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:12,800
So, I mean, where does that leave?

718
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:15,900
It seems to me as we're discussing this,

719
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:17,940
and again, you gotta get this book

720
00:31:17,940 --> 00:31:19,200
because it's filled with hope.

721
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:20,560
What I like about the book is,

722
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:23,740
honestly, I deal with so much depressing content

723
00:31:24,260 --> 00:31:26,120
that sometimes I go, I can't handle it.

724
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:28,860
I just cannot watch another video of animals being tortured.

725
00:31:29,380 --> 00:31:30,900
But this book gives us hope.

726
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:33,420
And just in the title, it says,

727
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:36,640
the movement to free us from factory farming.

728
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:39,720
And first of all, how can people,

729
00:31:40,100 --> 00:31:41,820
the first thing you can do is get the book.

730
00:31:42,020 --> 00:31:43,600
I'm listening to it on Audible,

731
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:46,800
which is my preferred way of listening to books,

732
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:48,260
consuming books these days,

733
00:31:48,260 --> 00:31:49,120
because I have two dogs

734
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:50,940
that I walk long distances every day,

735
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:52,740
and I listen to probably three books a week.

736
00:31:53,220 --> 00:31:57,260
But you can go to beacon.org forward slash transformation,

737
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:00,520
and you can get this, however you like to read books,

738
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:04,820
Kindle, listen to them, hard copy, whatever, but get it.

739
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:06,800
So now that people have it,

740
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:08,720
how can they be part of the solution?

741
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:11,120
Obviously we need governments to change.

742
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:12,900
We need individual farmers to change.

743
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:16,080
We need the big ag monoliths to change.

744
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:17,440
But how about the average person?

745
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:21,200
Yeah, I really believe in the individual's ability

746
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:22,180
to change things.

747
00:32:22,340 --> 00:32:25,760
I think individual action creates collective action.

748
00:32:25,980 --> 00:32:28,180
Collective action puts pressure on markets,

749
00:32:28,180 --> 00:32:30,620
and market pressure puts pressure on the companies

750
00:32:30,620 --> 00:32:32,420
and the governments that we're trying to change.

751
00:32:32,900 --> 00:32:35,760
So your choices really matter,

752
00:32:35,980 --> 00:32:38,940
whether it's eating one forkful different

753
00:32:38,940 --> 00:32:41,220
or one plate different, one meal different,

754
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:44,580
a week different, or changing your whole diet, that helps.

755
00:32:44,580 --> 00:32:47,320
Every time you make a different choice in your diet,

756
00:32:47,420 --> 00:32:48,420
it's reducing suffering,

757
00:32:48,580 --> 00:32:51,620
and it's helping to support farmers and a food system

758
00:32:51,620 --> 00:32:53,860
that is more humane, sustainable,

759
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:57,060
and moving in the right direction away from factory farming.

760
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:03,020
And I went, Jane, I also feel sad and pessimistic sometimes,

761
00:33:03,020 --> 00:33:06,820
and I needed to write this book to show that there is hope.

762
00:33:07,140 --> 00:33:08,400
I went into the field,

763
00:33:08,460 --> 00:33:11,260
and I interviewed dozens and dozens of people

764
00:33:11,260 --> 00:33:14,120
who are fighting factory farming right where it is,

765
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:15,240
right next to factory farm,

766
00:33:15,300 --> 00:33:16,500
whether it be community members

767
00:33:16,500 --> 00:33:18,180
who are living next to factory farm,

768
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:20,640
farmers, even workers in the slaughterhouses,

769
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:21,860
and even animals.

770
00:33:21,860 --> 00:33:23,260
There's a whole section on animals

771
00:33:23,260 --> 00:33:25,040
who have escaped factory farms

772
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:27,200
and found places and sanctuaries.

773
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:30,320
So in my mind, if they can do it,

774
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:31,920
if these people who are, and animals,

775
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:34,680
these beings, every being who is right in the system

776
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:38,500
can escape it and can fight against it and build a new way,

777
00:33:38,660 --> 00:33:40,320
so can each and every one of us.

778
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:44,020
So I love the, I have to say,

779
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:45,840
I'm not just saying this because I thought of it,

780
00:33:46,060 --> 00:33:48,660
but I love the idea of you taking this book

781
00:33:48,660 --> 00:33:51,560
and going from office to office in Congress.

782
00:33:51,820 --> 00:33:54,760
And also state legislators too.

783
00:33:55,180 --> 00:33:57,880
I've gone up to Sacramento, I don't know how many times,

784
00:33:58,260 --> 00:34:00,140
and walked with various groups,

785
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:02,320
including Social Compassion and Legislation,

786
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:04,580
which does, tries to get legislation passed

787
00:34:04,580 --> 00:34:05,260
here in California,

788
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:07,719
and go from office to office chatting with people.

789
00:34:08,300 --> 00:34:10,420
A lot of times they're very inviting,

790
00:34:10,580 --> 00:34:12,040
and they're like, sure, let's take this.

791
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:13,900
Somebody comes out of an office, say,

792
00:34:13,980 --> 00:34:15,980
hey, we'd like you to read this.

793
00:34:16,300 --> 00:34:18,120
And then when there's social media going on,

794
00:34:18,139 --> 00:34:19,840
it puts a little pressure on them to read it.

795
00:34:20,020 --> 00:34:21,040
And if they don't read it,

796
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:22,179
that doesn't make them look good.

797
00:34:22,460 --> 00:34:25,179
If they do read it, maybe they'll wake up.

798
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:29,780
Do you see, given all the discussion

799
00:34:29,780 --> 00:34:32,980
about how we are facing this extraordinary deficit

800
00:34:32,980 --> 00:34:34,460
and we need to cut costs,

801
00:34:34,460 --> 00:34:35,980
and unfortunately, of course,

802
00:34:36,100 --> 00:34:39,440
there's a lot of controversy about programs

803
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:40,560
that are vital being cut,

804
00:34:40,780 --> 00:34:44,020
but is there any movement in the Farm Bill,

805
00:34:44,219 --> 00:34:47,900
which sets food policy for like the next five years?

806
00:34:48,139 --> 00:34:49,960
If you look at the subsidies,

807
00:34:50,219 --> 00:34:51,880
and please correct me if I'm wrong,

808
00:34:52,340 --> 00:34:55,080
a lot of the subsidies are packed into that Farm Bill.

809
00:34:55,219 --> 00:34:58,960
I know that they have not passed a final one yet,

810
00:34:59,140 --> 00:35:00,440
is my understanding,

811
00:35:00,620 --> 00:35:02,780
and it keeps getting kicked down the road.

812
00:35:03,240 --> 00:35:06,500
Is there any effort to get into that Farm Bill

813
00:35:06,500 --> 00:35:08,780
and get rid of some of those subsidies

814
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:12,800
that are literally destroying the health of Americans,

815
00:35:13,060 --> 00:35:14,500
accelerating climate change,

816
00:35:14,700 --> 00:35:16,200
creating the budget crisis?

817
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:19,700
The list goes on and on,

818
00:35:19,940 --> 00:35:22,200
and it's right there staring them in the face,

819
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:24,140
and for some reason, they can't see it.

820
00:35:24,620 --> 00:35:26,720
I mean, I really like your idea, Jane,

821
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:28,520
and we may be circling back on this.

822
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:31,220
I don't think there's enough going on in the Farm Bill.

823
00:35:31,220 --> 00:35:33,500
It's always extremely difficult, I mean,

824
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:35,800
to address subsidies,

825
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:39,260
and we always have to try kind of backdoor entrances on this

826
00:35:39,260 --> 00:35:41,000
to try to get something through.

827
00:35:42,660 --> 00:35:44,460
So not enough is being done.

828
00:35:44,720 --> 00:35:47,540
I like your idea, so maybe we'll be circling back

829
00:35:47,540 --> 00:35:50,360
and thinking about how to do what you're talking about.

830
00:35:50,460 --> 00:35:51,460
I mean, at the very least,

831
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:53,300
it'll lay down seeds for the next Farm Bill.

832
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:56,400
Yeah, and Tina Walker's like,

833
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:58,420
put them in libraries as well as schools,

834
00:35:58,640 --> 00:35:59,940
college, universities.

835
00:36:00,620 --> 00:36:02,940
Yeah, we're in 400 or so libraries now.

836
00:36:03,060 --> 00:36:05,540
And by the way, all of the proceeds to this book

837
00:36:05,540 --> 00:36:06,940
go to Mercy for Animals,

838
00:36:07,240 --> 00:36:09,820
and so it's feeding the work that we do.

839
00:36:10,500 --> 00:36:12,800
And yeah, the last number I had

840
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:14,300
was we're in over 400 libraries,

841
00:36:14,300 --> 00:36:15,960
so you should be able to get it out of your library.

842
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:17,240
If not, you can ask for it.

843
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:19,220
Yeah, but I think it's very important

844
00:36:19,220 --> 00:36:20,980
for people to buy the book

845
00:36:20,980 --> 00:36:24,080
because when it becomes a New York Times bestseller,

846
00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:26,220
that also gives it a lot of credibility.

847
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:29,380
And so I urge everyone as an act

848
00:36:29,380 --> 00:36:33,560
of supporting this movement to order this book now.

849
00:36:33,980 --> 00:36:36,800
Again, Beacon, B-E-A-C-O-N.org,

850
00:36:37,260 --> 00:36:39,060
Forged Last Transformation.

851
00:36:39,500 --> 00:36:41,120
So we only have a couple of minutes.

852
00:36:41,240 --> 00:36:44,340
I wanna go into a little bit of in-depth

853
00:36:44,340 --> 00:36:46,960
on exactly how this works.

854
00:36:47,540 --> 00:36:50,460
You've seen the B-roll and the celebration,

855
00:36:50,460 --> 00:36:53,900
but we do have a one on the details.

856
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:56,740
Let's break it down because a lot of people

857
00:36:56,740 --> 00:36:58,960
are still wondering whether it's mushrooms

858
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:04,640
or how do you decide what product to grow

859
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:05,940
in place of animals?

860
00:37:05,980 --> 00:37:07,440
Hi, my name is Kalomi Joshi.

861
00:37:07,740 --> 00:37:09,780
I'm the demonstration hub project manager

862
00:37:09,780 --> 00:37:12,380
with the Transformation Project at Mercy for Animals.

863
00:37:12,720 --> 00:37:13,980
So on Tom Lind's farm,

864
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:18,980
he was producing 100,000 chickens probably monthly.

865
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:21,540
And what we have done is taken that

866
00:37:21,540 --> 00:37:24,600
and shifted that operation to something more sustainable

867
00:37:25,170 --> 00:37:29,260
and plant-based and achievable for farmers like Tom Lind.

868
00:37:29,460 --> 00:37:31,160
We have our irrigation system

869
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:34,040
that you'll see the pipes coming into the raised bed.

870
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:36,340
Well, anything we could repurpose, we did,

871
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:38,960
but the plumbing and irrigation is all new.

872
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:40,860
Also just because the design of it

873
00:37:40,860 --> 00:37:42,760
is different for the plants.

874
00:37:43,620 --> 00:37:46,400
Along the wall, just so you're aware, this is a cool wall.

875
00:37:47,100 --> 00:37:48,700
And if we actually walk towards it,

876
00:37:48,700 --> 00:37:51,060
it has an AC type of feel,

877
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:54,060
but it helps with the fans,

878
00:37:54,260 --> 00:37:57,080
which pulls this cool air across the greenhouse.

879
00:37:58,140 --> 00:37:59,960
That's basically a cardboard structure

880
00:37:59,960 --> 00:38:01,420
with water going through it.

881
00:38:01,620 --> 00:38:05,400
And we're doing a little bit of physics

882
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:06,940
to get this cool air across.

883
00:38:07,180 --> 00:38:08,580
I'm assuming this is newer, right?

884
00:38:09,220 --> 00:38:09,860
This is new.

885
00:38:10,100 --> 00:38:11,300
This is similar thing for the chickens, right?

886
00:38:11,420 --> 00:38:11,840
That's right.

887
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:13,180
Same idea, but it's for greenhouses.

888
00:38:13,340 --> 00:38:14,880
Correct, that is right.

889
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:16,880
Probably in about two to three weeks

890
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:19,040
is the turnaround time for these seeds

891
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:20,400
before they're transplanted

892
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:22,520
into their respective growing systems.

893
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:30,060
Yeah, we bring some farm ones for the buckets.

894
00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:39,480
So exciting.

895
00:38:40,980 --> 00:38:42,540
Let me ask you this.

896
00:38:42,780 --> 00:38:45,500
How many do you think you're going to get going?

897
00:38:45,860 --> 00:38:48,080
I know you said you wanted some of these farmers

898
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:50,460
who make this transition then to become ambassadors.

899
00:38:51,300 --> 00:38:52,820
What are we, let's talk numbers.

900
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:54,480
I mean, how can we spread this?

901
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:56,860
Yeah, at the moment we have capacity

902
00:38:56,860 --> 00:38:59,560
and funding for eight to 10 farmers per year.

903
00:38:59,700 --> 00:39:02,580
So we think of it like how we do undercover investigations.

904
00:39:03,020 --> 00:39:04,560
When we do an undercover investigation

905
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:05,420
into factory farming,

906
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:06,740
we're shining a light on this darkness.

907
00:39:06,980 --> 00:39:07,740
We're telling a story.

908
00:39:08,100 --> 00:39:11,100
This is the cruelty that is involved in factory farming.

909
00:39:11,100 --> 00:39:13,920
And it is used as a sort of a beacon

910
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:16,060
to draw attention to the change that's needed.

911
00:39:16,060 --> 00:39:18,100
This is the same thing we're doing with transformation.

912
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:20,400
We're doing eight to 10 transformations a year

913
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:21,860
and we're drawing attention

914
00:39:21,860 --> 00:39:23,980
to this is the struggle that farmers have.

915
00:39:24,420 --> 00:39:26,480
This is the path that we need to take

916
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:29,020
to get toward a better food and farming system.

917
00:39:29,020 --> 00:39:31,340
And we want to use those eight to 10 transitions

918
00:39:31,340 --> 00:39:34,380
to draw attention and build roadmaps

919
00:39:34,380 --> 00:39:35,420
towards a better system.

920
00:39:36,500 --> 00:39:38,220
Wow, it's just so amazing.

921
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:41,300
And I really feel like everybody needs to take part

922
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:44,140
by buying the book, first of all,

923
00:39:44,140 --> 00:39:45,440
that is super important,

924
00:39:45,580 --> 00:39:47,760
getting up to date on all the facts

925
00:39:48,240 --> 00:39:52,100
and then supporting Mercy for Animals as well.

926
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:55,440
The book, all the proceeds go to Mercy for Animals

927
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:57,760
and you're doing all this incredible work.

928
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:02,200
So I just want to say, wow, I'm really blown away.

929
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:06,140
And Tiffany says, eight to 10 farms, excellent.

930
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:10,280
And then if you have this sort of exponential growth,

931
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:14,280
if those eight to 10 farms each get eight to 10 farms

932
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:15,680
and eight to 10 farms,

933
00:40:16,900 --> 00:40:19,240
I wonder, my final question is,

934
00:40:19,660 --> 00:40:21,820
okay, the farmers are gonna make more money

935
00:40:21,820 --> 00:40:23,340
because one of the shockers in the book

936
00:40:23,340 --> 00:40:26,500
was how little these farmers make per chicken.

937
00:40:26,780 --> 00:40:28,160
Can you break that down?

938
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:31,360
And if indeed the farmers themselves

939
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:32,660
are gonna make more money

940
00:40:32,660 --> 00:40:34,740
than it's in their self-interest,

941
00:40:35,180 --> 00:40:36,620
wouldn't that translate to,

942
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:39,240
let's say the local government of North Carolina saying,

943
00:40:39,240 --> 00:40:42,060
well, yeah, let's support this.

944
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:45,120
And the reason I think about that is I also remember

945
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:49,000
covering a terrible storm

946
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:51,760
where a lot of these concentrated animal feeding operations,

947
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:53,880
and I believe it was in the Carolinas,

948
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:55,160
were right in Florida.

949
00:40:56,140 --> 00:41:02,480
And yet they just basically keep doing the same thing

950
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:04,220
even as climate change worsens

951
00:41:04,220 --> 00:41:05,200
and those farms,

952
00:41:05,660 --> 00:41:08,160
those concentrated animal feeding operations,

953
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:10,500
I don't call them farms, factory farms,

954
00:41:11,060 --> 00:41:13,460
CAFOs are gonna get wiped out again.

955
00:41:14,220 --> 00:41:17,000
How about going to like the North Carolina government

956
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:19,880
and seeing if they wanna get involved

957
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:22,380
if indeed the federal government is so intransigent?

958
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:26,320
Yeah, I think that's exactly the direction we wanna go in.

959
00:41:26,820 --> 00:41:28,720
I mean, a farmer, this will shock people,

960
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:32,880
a chicken farmer makes 5 cents per pound of chicken,

961
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:34,420
5 cents.

962
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:37,340
A chicken is about four pounds to six pounds.

963
00:41:37,340 --> 00:41:40,420
So we're talking about 20 cents per chicken

964
00:41:40,420 --> 00:41:41,200
that they're making.

965
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:42,180
It's unbelievable.

966
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:43,820
And you are paying at the grocery store

967
00:41:43,820 --> 00:41:47,280
a dollar per pound, so like $4 for a chicken.

968
00:41:48,500 --> 00:41:50,560
So they're receiving a fraction.

969
00:41:50,980 --> 00:41:52,580
The rest is going to the company

970
00:41:52,580 --> 00:41:54,360
and to all of the other marketing

971
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:56,800
and distribution processes.

972
00:41:57,600 --> 00:41:59,660
So a farmer has a vested interest

973
00:41:59,660 --> 00:42:01,160
in transitioning something like mushrooms

974
00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:02,140
if they can sell it directly,

975
00:42:02,220 --> 00:42:04,340
where they could make $6 a pound.

976
00:42:04,460 --> 00:42:06,360
They could make so much more money

977
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:09,540
for a specialty mushroom like a shiitake mushroom.

978
00:42:10,100 --> 00:42:13,640
And so it's really getting the money right to the farmer,

979
00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:16,660
right in the economy that is most needed,

980
00:42:16,820 --> 00:42:17,780
right in that rural economy,

981
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:20,220
rather than winding the pockets of 100 people

982
00:42:20,220 --> 00:42:22,060
that have nothing to do with raising the chicken

983
00:42:22,540 --> 00:42:23,400
and doing the farming.

984
00:42:24,100 --> 00:42:26,180
Wow, well, I just wanna say thank you.

985
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:28,420
I know you're an extraordinarily busy person

986
00:42:28,420 --> 00:42:32,080
for taking this time to talk to Unchained TV.

987
00:42:32,340 --> 00:42:35,360
Everybody out there, get this book, okay?

988
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:37,100
I'm telling you, you need to get it.

989
00:42:37,540 --> 00:42:38,800
It's a fun read.

990
00:42:40,020 --> 00:42:42,720
I like the way you break up the personal stories

991
00:42:42,720 --> 00:42:44,400
with sort of the policy issues.

992
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:47,180
Just as like when you're getting a little bit on the policy,

993
00:42:47,380 --> 00:42:48,900
boom, we get another personal story.

994
00:42:49,180 --> 00:42:51,400
So it's very well woven.

995
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:54,860
And I wanna just, because I know how people are,

996
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:56,140
what, where do you get it?

997
00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:57,180
People are still asking.

998
00:42:57,300 --> 00:42:58,860
Yes, of course you can get it on Amazon.

999
00:42:59,240 --> 00:43:01,720
And if that's where you wanna order it, go ahead,

1000
00:43:01,720 --> 00:43:05,720
but you can go to beacon.org forward slash transformation

1001
00:43:06,340 --> 00:43:07,640
and get it as well.

1002
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:10,180
And I urge everybody to do that immediately.

1003
00:43:10,820 --> 00:43:14,420
And of course, while we're asking folks to do that,

1004
00:43:14,460 --> 00:43:18,180
we always ask people to please download Unchained TV.

1005
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:19,880
We are the world's only

1006
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:22,420
a nonprofit vegan streaming network,

1007
00:43:22,580 --> 00:43:27,000
absolutely 100% free, 2,000 videos and counting.

1008
00:43:27,220 --> 00:43:28,840
You can download us on your phone

1009
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:30,800
and text those videos to your friends.

1010
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:33,180
You can download those on the TV.

1011
00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:36,100
There's the TV behind me that is playing this.

1012
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:38,280
I'll be playing it as soon as it's over to watch it.

1013
00:43:38,620 --> 00:43:40,920
And you can also watch it online.

1014
00:43:41,420 --> 00:43:42,800
So please do that.

1015
00:43:42,900 --> 00:43:44,580
So it's a vegan Netflix.

1016
00:43:44,860 --> 00:43:46,760
Okay, that's the craziest thing I've ever heard.

1017
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:48,020
I love Unchained TV.

1018
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:50,020
Unchained, Unchained TV.

1019
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:52,160
Your life will change, it's just that easy.

1020
00:43:52,500 --> 00:43:55,460
Unchained TV has all sorts of content for everybody.

1021
00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:57,940
Unchained TV changed my life.

1022
00:43:57,940 --> 00:44:01,060
Unchained TV is crushing it.

1023
00:44:01,220 --> 00:44:02,720
I love Unchained TV.

1024
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:04,720
Unchained TV is my go-to.

1025
00:44:05,060 --> 00:44:05,820
Unchained TV.

1026
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:06,800
Who knew?

1027
00:44:07,540 --> 00:44:09,260
Unchained, baby, yeah.