UnchainedTV: Transform Yourself with 2 Fantastic New Vegan Books

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Welcome to the Unchained TV podcast with me, your host, Jane Velez Mitchell.

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Guess what, folks, we got some bad news for you.

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Veganism is under attack by advertiser-based mainstream media.

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Take a look at some of these headlines, very slanted, and these are not just

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like small publications, some of the biggest publications in the world.

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And that's why vegan books are a crucial tool to counteract this misinformation campaign.

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And now, breaking news, we've got two new extraordinary vegan books out,

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and we're going to talk to the authors about these books, Vegan Transformation and Life Veganized.

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So, let's start with the Vegan Transformation. Angela Crawford, you are a psychotherapist,

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a therapist, and you have talked about how veganism, contrary to how everybody tries

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to make it seem like it's some extraordinary sacrifice, it's actually a gift and something

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that makes us happier and healthier and more in tune with our better nature.

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Can you elaborate what the big points you make in your book are regarding that?

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Yeah, I'm happy to. I'm so thrilled to be here.

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I researched this book by interviewing vegans who have been vegan for varying lengths of time,

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and it was about the emotional, social, and spiritual changes in their life with being vegan.

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There's a lot of books that look at more of the health and the environmental and ethical aspects

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of our vegan lifestyle, but what happens when we align with our ethics in terms of our emotional

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well-being? And what I found through surveys and interviews with vegans about how they felt their

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life had changed emotionally and spiritually, there were so many positive benefits, even though

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there can be challenges because we are still a minority in the world as far as the numbers

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of people that are vegan compared to omnivores. So there are some social challenges people face,

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but there was also so many blessings that people felt as they align with this lifestyle.

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Emotional fulfillment, greater sense of purpose and peace, spiritual alignment,

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true connection with other people who share their values, and also health empowerment.

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You know, often we're taught we don't have much control over our health other than taking pills,

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but I interviewed many people who found that by changing their lifestyle and becoming fully

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plant-based and vegan, that they transformed their health, things that they were told

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couldn't heal. So there was an empowerment that came with that. When we align with our values,

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it's beneficial to us as well as to those that we're helping through our life change.

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Of course. I mean, you think about people who, for example, do something, and none of us is perfect,

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obviously, but let's say somebody who commits a terrible crime, you know, there's those old

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songs about the criminal returning to the scene of the crime and how they're often haunted by

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guilt and remorse and reliving what it is that they did. Well, I mean, if you think about the

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violence involved with eating animals, on some level, everybody knows that they're contributing

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to the killing of these animals, and that's got to have a psychological impact, even if it's

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completely unconscious, Angela. Yes, definitely. You're speaking to research that shows how we

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treat animals and how we treat other beings relates to how we treat humans and our own mental health

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and well-being. And the people I interviewed said that when they aligned with their values by eating

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a fully plant-based vegan diet and making other choices also that were compassionate and cruelty

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free, they felt a sense of freedom they hadn't anticipated. You know, sometimes we do fear that

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it will be restrictive or depriving, but the people I interviewed, for the most part, found that

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they felt so much freer and better and more authentic. And, you know, a really great quote

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is that even if sometimes we're challenged as we learn about what happens to animals, it brings up

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tough emotions. There's also freedom and peace that we can make different choices.

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I love it. And now we're going to get into our second author's book, which is Life Veganized. I

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love the title. I think it kind of reflects you as a very modern person who is on the

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cutting edge of social media. Stephanie, you have decided at some point you're going to devote your

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life and your career to promoting the plant-based lifestyle. How did you come up with this book,

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Life Veganized, and what is the key point, the elevator pitch? Yes. So this is something that

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I've wanted to do for a long time, but I did just turn 32 last month and I went vegan at 16. So I've

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now been vegan for half of my life. So I thought this was a great time to write this book. I am

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asked very often, you know, vegans are usually asked like how they went vegan and when. And

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going vegan at 16, it's kind of, it is a unique story. So I wanted, I wanted to put it down,

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put it out there. And I think that as far as veganism goes, my view of veganism,

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it's more of like a simplistic view where life veganized, that was, that was my old handle of

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all my social media channels before. And the way that I came up with that name was because I wanted

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to show people that no matter what kind of life you have, you can live it in a vegan way. So I

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was living in the Midwest when I went vegan. I was 16. My family was on welfare. We were on food stamps

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and I went vegan in the middle of all of that. And it actually wasn't difficult at all. I didn't

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know how to cook either. But I, that, that's all it really is. It's just a very simplistic view

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that you can be vegan no matter what your circumstances are. And then in this book that

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I wrote, I talk about how I went vegan, but then how my life has been the past 16 years

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as a vegan throughout my twenties. I've moved across the country a few times. I've worked

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different nine to fives. I've worked in food service. I have been homeless and lived in my car

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in my early twenties, a couple of different times, and I was vegan through all of it.

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And it's never been a challenge. Fascinating. And you know, what I find particularly fascinating is

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that you didn't find it a challenge and you also didn't have the disconnect. I'll give you an

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example. I had lunch with a lovely lady, really super, super kind and wonderful. And she was

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telling me about how much she loved animals. And I said, all animals. And she said, all animals.

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And she was eating ham. And I just went like this. What about that? Now, of course I was accused of

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being rude, silently accused of being rude with a lot of eyebrows. But the point was that the

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disconnect was so profound, a good person, a kind person, but unable to make that connection.

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Why do you think, Stephanie? And this is something that perplexes me. It has nothing to do with

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intelligence. It has nothing to do with how successful you are. Some people make the connection

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and some don't, no matter what you say. What was it about you, Stephanie, that allowed you to make

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the connection? I love that you asked this, because this is what I talk about near the

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beginning of it, is that ever since I was like maybe like three years old, I always knew that

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one day I would not eat animals. And I spent, I'm from Columbus, Ohio, but I spent several years as

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a child in a small farm town growing up there. And our neighbors, people that we knew that I went to

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school with, they're all families of like hunters and farmers. And I think that growing up in that

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environment, you would think it raises hundreds and farmers. But I think that that was definitely

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something that actually drove me to the life that I have now. Because ever since I was very,

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very little, I thought, I'm going to be vegetarian one day. I don't want to eat animals. I love

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animals. I really care about them. And we had deer roaming in our backyard. We had all types of

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wildlife. And because I've eaten deer when I was a kid, but we also had them in our backyard.

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And I think that that, like it kind of had a reverse effect where like, you know, I was almost

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in 4-H as a kid, but I was like too shy to like do anything, you know. So I didn't do that. But like

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I almost did 4-H. And like, I think that that was actually what made me make the connection. Like

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I always felt like I was in close contact with wildlife and animals and even farms and farm

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animals. And then after I went vegetarian at 15, and then I accidentally read a book about veganism

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at 16, and then went vegan right away. Well, that raises the whole issue of how important it is

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to have vegan books. I would say documentaries and books are two of the leading ways that people go

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vegan. Yes, it's social media. And social media is very important. And we at Unchained TV embrace

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social media. And I know Stephanie, you're a whiz at it. But sometimes 30 seconds won't do it.

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Whereas an entire documentary, like an Earthlings, like a Dominion, like a Forks Over Knives,

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all these films that we have on Unchained TV, the streaming network you see behind me,

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we're the world's only plant-based animal rights streaming television network.

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Those long form have a tendency to convince people more thoroughly. They can't dismiss it.

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The same thing with books. So Angela, what is the impact you hope your book has?

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Because you did a lot of research, you spent a lot of time, you are a doctor, you are a

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psychologist. This was a huge investment. Why did you feel your book, The Vegan Transformation,

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was worth all of that effort? Well, like many people I had when I first was moving in the

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direction of veganism thought it would be too hard. I thought it would be depriving. And then

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as I learned what I learned about factory farming and animal agriculture, and I just knew I couldn't

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keep eating meat anymore. Something broke through that disconnect that you were describing. I think

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it was a mixture of things like you mentioned, books and documentaries. And so as I embraced a

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lifestyle, I found my life opened up. Similar to Stephanie, I had not been a cook. I hadn't really

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enjoyed food prep. And now I was making all these delicious plant-based meals that were really

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wonderful. And I found my voice. I am definitely an introvert. I don't have all that social media

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that Stephanie does, although I'm growing into that. But becoming vegan, it helped me find a

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greater sense of purpose and a determination to share this. And I wanted to bring my gifts,

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which is psychotherapy and psychology, to this movement. And because that piece about how we

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change internally was missing from a lot of what I was reading, I wanted to learn more about it

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through talking to vegans and seeing their experience and sharing that part of it that

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we change inside in so many ways that are truly transformative and not depriving but actually

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make our lives fuller. That is the key. And this book, The Vegan Transformation, you can get it on

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Amazon. You can also get it at AngelaCrawfordPhD.com. I urge you to click on that. It's a

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great book to give to people. And there's seven transformational aspects that you have outlined.

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Living aligned with core values, extending compassion to all sentient beings,

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sense of purpose in creating a kinder, healthier world, connection with others who share similar

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values, greater emotional fulfillment and well-being, taking charge of health through

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plant-based nutrition, deepening spirituality, interconnectedness with all life. I love how you

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break that down. Now, to me, what's so important is there are so many people right now who are

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suffering from depression. And I remember somebody called me once and they said, I'm really suffering

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from depression. I didn't know her that well. And I probably didn't express it the right way,

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but I said, why don't you try? Well, I definitely didn't say it the right way.

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But what I did indicate was maybe she should try a plant-based diet. And this was my thought.

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Your gut biome determines your serotonin levels. Your serotonin levels determine your mood.

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So this old saw about eating an apple a day, by the way, we recently profiled the green smoothie

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challenge, which the plant-based treaty has undertaken, and I've embraced it. And I'm

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having a kale smoothie every day, which is a super food. And it's unbelievable. But these

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old saws about an apple a day keeps the doctor away. It also keeps maybe the depression away.

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And it's not just sort of an urban myth or a myth. There's actual science behind it, Angela.

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Yeah, there is. There's a whole section in the book exactly on what you're saying,

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a chapter called Authentic Fulfillment. And what I found through researching the literature is that

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those of us that eat more fruits and vegetables and other whole plant foods, there is a link

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between that and emotional well-being. And I will acknowledge that mental health is complex,

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that in my work in the past as a psychotherapist, it wasn't that solely changing nutrition would

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always fix everything, but it's a really important foundation. If we're not getting

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exactly what you described, the foods that support our microbiome and our nervous system

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and our whole well-being, it's going to make it harder for our mental health and for the other

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lifestyle changes that we might want to make to have as much impact. So 100% what you're saying,

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eating those kinds of foods that support our body and our gut and our brain, all of those help a lot.

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So somebody wanted to know, Stephanie, what was the book that you read at age 16

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that had such an impact on your decision to go vegan?

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It was called Skinny Bitch. In the early 2000s, it was making the rounds around Hollywood and

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all of the celebrities and things like that were reading it. It was a huge thing. And it

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was advertised as a diet nutrition book. And I was very into nutrition, diet, fitness,

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as a preteen teenager. So I read Skinny Bitch, and it starts talking about how you can be

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healthy and you don't smoke cigarettes, don't drink alcohol in order to be skinny and healthy.

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And I'm 16, so I'm like, I don't do that anyway. That's great. And then there was a chapter in the

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book at the very beginning, it talks about how you shouldn't eat meat to be healthy and skinny

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and in shape. And I thought, wow, the people who wrote this, the women who wrote this are vegetarian.

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And then they start talking about the dairy and egg industry. So long story short, it goes into

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that. And I couldn't look at dairy and eggs the same after reading that book.

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It's so fascinating that you talk about this, because that was, you know, there was the first

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way. Well, there's been many waves of veganism. I mean, it's as old as time. And there's a great

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film, Christ's Piracy, that discusses that in depth. But what I found fascinating is that the

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actual word vegan is not that old. It actually stemmed from the vegetarian society having a rift,

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and there were non-dairy vegetarians who wanted to have their own newsletter, and they were denied.

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So they created their own newsletter, and they took the first two letters of vegetarian and the

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last two letters of vegetarian, put them together, and that became vegan. And it wasn't really until

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just mid-20th century that it started even going into the dictionaries. And like,

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growing up, I didn't have the word vegan. We were primarily pescetarian in my household, but

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the word didn't even really enter the lexicon until like, well, very, very recently. So it's hard to

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see change in real time. We might say, why is it taking so long? But in reality, it's accelerating

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very quickly. However, there has been a backlash. When Beyond Meat became the most successful

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initial public offering in years in 2019, the meat industry said, oh my gosh, we are going to

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have to counteract. And they sure did. And it's kind of reached a crescendo. I just picked out

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three recent headlines that are very terrifying to me. Meat is back on plates and in politics

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after years in which plant-based was the mantra. Meat once again dominates the national conversation

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about dinner. That's the New York Times. Yes, I urge everyone, subscribe to the New York Times

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because subscribers can comment. I commented basically calling out the article. It was

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published and I got something like 48 recommends. So it's very important to subscribe to the New

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York Times, the most important newspaper in the world, and have the ability to comment.

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Here's another one from the New York Post. New research is bad news for vegans, even if you eat

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plant-based protein. Again, what about all the research that shows that the blue zones, people

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living the longest lifespans, the healthiest lives are living a plant-based diet? And then here's

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another one from BBC Science of all places. Even protein-rich vegan diets may fall short on key

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nutrient studies suggest. Now, I think all of these are what I would call hit pieces. Please, I invite

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any author of those articles on at any time. I would love to dialogue with you. Prove me wrong

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because in my opinion, they were unbalanced articles. What can we do about it, Angela? And

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do you address this in your book at all? Yeah, this came up in the book. I had spoken with you

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actually early in my research process and you pointed out to me some articles that were claiming,

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for example, that vegans were depressed. And so I looked more closely at those. And what I found

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when I got to the root of what those articles were based on, most referenced a meta-analysis study

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that was actually funded by the beef industry. And T. Colin Campbell, who wrote the China study,

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speaks to this, that you really have to look at who is funding the research. And as you say,

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are they giving a balanced perspective on what research is out there? The plant-based doctors

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that I highlight in my chapter on health empowerment, they have shown with really

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awesome strict science studies that a plant-based diet has so many benefits for our health. And

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Dean Ornish showing that we can open up our blood vessels through a plant-based diet and reverse

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heart disease. I'd really like to see how these studies can really counter that strong research.

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Yeah, and you know, I do always give a chance for people who comment to make their comments.

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So we have a comment here that I would like to put up. And this is John Harriman Corcoran.

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Great respect and fondness, Jane, of course. However, I believe if God had wanted everyone

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to be vegans, he wouldn't have invented ham and cheese sandwiches. Now, let me just

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respond to that. I'll give you all the chance to respond to it.

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John, I just want to show you some images of pigs heading into slaughter. Here in Los Angeles,

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there was a Farmer John slaughterhouse owned by Smithfield, which is owned by the Chinese

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and is the largest meat pig killer in the world. And so we used to bear witness at these

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vigils, basically trying to offer comfort to pigs who were going into the slaughterhouse.

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And there's one looking up. They're killed generally at about six months of age,

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and they are terrified. And we would try to offer them water and a little comfort and say things

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like, we love you. Pigs, by the way, it shouldn't matter, but they're smarter than dogs. Some consider

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them the fifth largest, the fifth most intelligent species on the planet. And I got to tell you,

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I had people who said they would go to these vigils and didn't show up. It's difficult.

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Here's pigs kept in gestation crates the size of their bodies, never able to turn around.

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They go psychotic. You know, if you did any of this to a dog for a week, you'd be charged with

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animal cruelty. And here's an image of pigs in a Canadian facility covered in dirt. It's

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really almost unimaginable what these animals go through. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

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It is truly, truly, well, I'd say it makes me embarrassed to be a member of the human species.

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There it is, a Canadian pig facility that had a very high rating by the Canadian government,

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and they are covered in their own feces. Now, I just ask you, John, if you're still watching,

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do you still think it's funny? Do you still think it's a big joke? Look into the eyes of that being.

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Just look into the eyes of that being and maybe look in the mirror and just think about it.

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That's what I would have to say. What would anybody else like to say about this? Stephanie?

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Um, well, I mean, my first thought, I mean, I guess I'm on Unchained, so I'm probably allowed

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to say this, but like, if you said something similar, but compared it to, what is the comment?

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If God, whatever, okay. If you compared this to physical or sexual abuse against a human,

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well, they wouldn't make whatever so desirable, so appealing. That would have a very different

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response from people. Do you get what I'm saying? I'm trying not to, like, be too whatever.

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Right, right.

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If we're comparing this to, like, the abuse of humans, it'd be horrific to say something like

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that, but because it's an animal, because there is so much disconnect, that just goes to show how

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much disconnect there really is in general. And how about you, Angela? What would you say to

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the gentleman? Well, I resonate with what both you and Stephanie said, you know, 100%, and I guess I

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reflect on what I've learned from Dr. Melanie Joy, who wrote the book Why We Love Dogs, Eat Pigs,

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Wear Cows, how I was once deeply conditioned to believe, as so many of us are, as we all are,

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really, that eating animals is, quote, unquote, normal, natural, and necessary.

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And yet, you know, when something breaks through, when we see, you know, whether you could argue

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it ever was normal, natural, or necessary, it is not natural now, what you're showing us.

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And those of us that are vegan discover it isn't necessary. And as far as the normal part,

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you know, you can call something normal because it's happening a lot, but that doesn't make it

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okay. And that's something I've come to realize, and many of us come to realize, there have been

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past atrocities all through history that were normalized at the time, but we now know we're

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not okay. And I think that's so true when you look more closely at current animal agriculture.

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Yeah, and it gets back to the woman who was saying she loved all animals while eating a

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slice of ham. And, you know, a lot of Americans underestimate the amount of meat they eat,

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and the average American eats 66.18 pounds of pork alone per year. And tragically,

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not to be Debbie Downer, but the consumption of animals is on the rise, it is not going down.

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So this is why I bring this up. Now, let's also talk about the climate crisis, because

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you don't need me to tell you that the world's in the midst of a climate crisis.

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And we're seeing more and more devastating wildfires, floods, tornadoes, extreme weather.

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There's a lot of talk about fossil fuels, but there's not as much talk about the impact of

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animal agriculture. Just the other day, we had a well-known scientist on who has just submitted a

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paper making the case that animal agriculture is the leading cause of climate change.

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He is willing to debate anybody anytime. And I'm not a scientist, but it's a very big subject. So

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it depends on how you analyze it and how you frame it. So with all that being said, I would

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like to point out an article that was in the New York Times, not so long ago, that made the point

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that researchers who examined the diets of 55,500 people found that vegans are responsible

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for 75% less in greenhouse gases than meat eaters. So if you really think about that,

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that means that if we all reduced our meat consumption and became plant-based,

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we would all collectively reduce human greenhouse gas emissions by 75%. And right there,

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that is a solution to the climate crisis. Now, the reason I mentioned that, getting back to

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the mainstream media slanted coverage of this entire issue, that was in the New York Times.

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It was kind of buried, but it was there. And nobody picked it up. It wasn't picked up by CNN,

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by MSNBC, by Fox News. I looked. I said, well, surely they have to say something about that's

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the solution to the climate crisis. No. And that was an Oxford University study. That was not a study

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by just some random group of people. Stephanie, how do we counteract this

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onslaught of basically misinformation and a blackout on this solution?

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I think it's more of a long game. When you go to any type of media, news outlets, whether it's

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vegan, climate-related or not, you can find coverage supporting any argument, both sides,

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on any topic. Now, you mentioned to me the other day that, not that New York Times article,

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but the one slandering veganism. And I found it and read it and took some notes. But it's

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interesting that you pointed out that article that's pretty pro-vegan. And then the other day,

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they come out with this one that's completely against veganism. But I think that as far as what

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we can do, do our own research, understand that no matter what you believe or what you find to be

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true, there will be an article or some type of news out there that is completely trying to

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discredit everything. You can find anything on the internet to support any argument. But it's

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important to think for ourselves, question things, and then just continue to focus on ourselves and

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our corner of the world. We can control ourselves and we can control our own actions.

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So try not to get discouraged by those types of articles that are trying to be pro-meat,

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that kind of thing. And just know that peace starts on your plate.

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And getting back to the gentleman who said God wouldn't have created ham and cheese sandwiches,

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God wouldn't have created vegan ham and vegan cheese sandwiches. Karen LaCava,

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who is a well-known plant-based chef and caterer, has commented, that's why we can now have vegan

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ham and cheese sandwiches that are even tastier and humane. So there you go. Somebody upstairs

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is coming up with a lot of good vegan products. And the other thing I want to just point out while

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we're talking is that these vigils, even though Farmer John, the Smithfield-owned slaughterhouse,

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closed down because of a lot of those protests, there were huge protests, celebrities were coming.

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Joaquin Phoenix was there after winning one of the major acting awards and it was getting huge

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publicity. So I think they decided it's actually not working for us. Let's close this down and put

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this slaughterhouse somewhere where nobody can find us in the middle of nowhere. But it was a

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huge success, but the vigils are still happening around the world by the Save Movement. And you

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have someone here pointing out chicken vigil happening the first Friday of the month in Chinatown

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by Animal Alliance Network in Los Angeles. So go to the Save Movement if you want to look at

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what's really happening and be part of the solution. I will say one other thing. There was a couple

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and the wife wanted to go to the vigil and she then called me up right before we were

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supposed to head off and said, my husband can't go. He thinks he'll be sick. Nevertheless,

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they did not then say, it's so awful, I'm going to stop eating animals. That's another part of the

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disconnect. Even when there's an acknowledgement of what's really going on is morally reprehensible,

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the habit continues. I liken it to alcoholism. I'm 30 years sober and I have to tell you it's

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a miracle because before I got sober 30 years ago, I couldn't go a day without a drink. I'd say,

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I'm not going to have a drink tonight. And then the nighttime would roll around and I would be

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drinking again. And I hit bottom at a party in West Hollywood. And I had a friend who was

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helping me, willing to help. I had an action point to get help and I never had a drink again.

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I think the key is that I had an action point. So what is the action point that we can give people

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so that when they have that moment of, oh my God, this is horrible. I shouldn't be participating.

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What they say about alcoholism and I think it applies to meat eating is it's a disease of

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amnesia. You forget, we have a tendency to romanticize, let's say the Chardonnay or the

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Martini and not remember, oh, the blackout or the stumbling home or the embarrassing things that

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were said. It's a disease of amnesia. How do we counteract that Angela? And you're a therapist.

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So you're the person to talk to. Yeah. Well, I agree with you that for most of us, there's some

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point that awakens us to wanting to make a change. And so if we're trying to encourage

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others, one thing I think is helpful is to meet people where they are and share in ways that

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resonate with them. If it's someone having a health issue, it's okay to come from the health

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angle to help them see that eating plant-based could help them heal some horrible disease they

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have and have a better life. If they are open to compassion for animals, then certainly sharing

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your own journey and teaming up with them. If we're coming from the angle of, I once thought

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those same things. I once believed that I had to eat meat or that I wouldn't be okay. And I once

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believed animals were treated humanely. And then this is what I learned. Sharing your own story can

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sometimes make people be more open and feel more curious to understand your journey and to start to

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think, well, maybe I could do that too. And I think one other piece of it is when people do make a

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change and they start on the vegan path, they need support. The research suggests that the biggest

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reason that people start to be vegan, but then don't sustain it. One is that they might only be

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doing it strictly for health reasons and not have enough grounded other reasons like the compassion

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for animals and the environment. But another reason is the social situations. Because we are social

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creatures, if we're in settings where we're the only vegan and we don't have any support, that

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can make it a lot harder. And so if we're helping people on the vegan journey, we need to also

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connect them with supports that help them through the challenges and help them to see that this is

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doable and to learn the skills that will make this easier and easier. I hope in time there's a tipping

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point where there's so much vegan food and vegan support that it becomes more and more an inviting

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path for more people. Well, we at Unchained TV, the world's only vegan streaming network, provide

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that support with literally hundreds of cooking shows that are free to watch. It looks like salmon,

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it tastes like salmon, but let me tell you, it's plant-based y'all.

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Plant-based in the birds, plant-based in the birds.

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I bought a tofu press because I eat a lot of tofu. This one makes it so easy. You just slide it in.

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And then you just turn it. And see already how the marinade is making the tofu turn

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the same color as a salmon filet. But turn it over on its side.

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You want to make sure it doesn't stick. Mirror, mirror on the wall, who's the greatest chef of all? It is I.

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Seitan is a high protein vegan alternative to chicken and it's so delicious. It's nutritious

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and it's made from vital wheat gluten. So we're just going to massage the tail. I like to think

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about food in terms of micronutrients, right? Do you need to make sure that you're putting food in

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your body that is repairing not only the muscular system, but also your gut and your brain, right?

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And just every aspect of you. So we do everything we can at Unchained TV to try to give people that

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support. And a lot of people have said they've gone vegan watching Unchained TV videos. And we

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provide the recipes online as well, written, so that people can follow the recipes and reenact.

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We talk about the nutritional content. There you just heard Dotsie Bausch, who is a vegan Olympian,

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talking about how she eats kale all the time. You know, these videos have a profound impact on me

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too. I was an ethical vegan who went vegan for the animals and I didn't really think twice about,

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oh, the nutrition. And thanks to uploading all these videos, I've become much more interested

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in having nutritionally complete meals and eating a lot of super healthy things. Not to say that

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I'll pass up that vegan croissant when it comes my way. But the point is that I think I'm trying

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to do everything I can. Stephanie is trying to do everything she can. You are trying, Angela,

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to do everything you can, but we're up against a behemoth. It's a David and Goliath battle.

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As Dr. Silas Rao, who was a brilliant systems analyst and a vegan advocate, said to me,

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Jen, we're all being factory farmed. They need people to get sick so they can sell them the drugs.

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It's a giant PR machine that's conditioning people to not act in their best

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interests. Just like people used to be encouraged to smoke. When I was a teenager, I smoked because

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I wanted to be cool. Then all of a sudden, society decided smoking isn't cool. And guess what? I

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stopped smoking so I can be manipulated. How do we do the same thing that happened to smoking

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for meat eating? And how do we counteract this Goliath? Stephanie, not a difficult question,

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I might add, right? How do we save the world of veganism? I think that, of course, the facts are

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important. I think, you know, I myself, you know, my journey, I feel like my purpose, what I'm trying

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to do in the long run is just continue promoting veganism, continue supporting the vegan movement,

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supporting vegan businesses, amplifying the voices of vegans in the community. And that,

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I mean, narrative. But I think that that's, that's all we can do. When, you know, that article,

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that New York Times article, that's like, you know, demonizing veganism. I was talking about,

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I was comparing veganism to like a trend. And veganism would be a trend, if it wasn't so

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sustainable, environmentally, and as far as health benefits. And that's something that people that we

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are becoming more aware of as a society is how healthy veganism is. Things can look bleak and

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dark, as far as meat consumption rising. However, I mean, you're hearing of all types of people

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living all types of vegan lifestyles. Pregnant women are still vegan throughout their pregnancies,

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we're raising vegan babies from birth. That's something that you wouldn't have heard of a long

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time ago. So I do think that veganism is growing, and the education is getting better around vegan

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issues. And that's all we can do. And I do think that all in all, we're doing a pretty good job

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trying to fight against the system and a society that tries to push meat so much.

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Again, you're listening to Stephanie Stevens, the author of Life Veganized. I want to tell

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everybody where you can get these books. So I want to show the covers and I do have a hard copy of

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the other book. We're going to get into that in one second. But these are really fabulous books to

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give people as gifts. So I'm going to put up, you can get The Vegan Transformation on

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Amazon, but you can also get it at AngelaCrawfordPhD.com. So think about it,

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The Vegan Transformation. It's a great book to give to people if you're already vegan. And if

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you're not vegan, if you're veganish or vegan curious, or just want to improve your health or

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for whatever reason, want to be less depressed, you can give it to yourself. And as far as

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Stephanie Stevens, this is an ebook. So it's not in print, but it's an ebook. And you can go to

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StephanieVStevens.com and there's a 20% promo code. If you put in Unchained TV, one word,

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you get 20% off that book. So these are, I think, really important tools that we can use

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to make change. And one of the things that I wanted to bring up, when I have people come over,

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I get a lot of books sent to me. And then once I look through them and read them,

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I don't want them just sitting on my mantle, not changing lives. I want to

384
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give them away to people so that other people can wake up. Here's something I've found,

385
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:31,020
and it may be totally just coincidence, but I have books on my mantle. And if somebody comes

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00:42:31,020 --> 00:42:37,560
and let's say a plumber, an electrician, working on the internet, whatever. And if they do a good

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job and they're nice, I go, look, I want to give you a little gift for you and your partner or

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00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:49,880
whoever. And I find that the most unlikely people are the most passionate about being happy about

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00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:56,300
getting this information. I had a plumber here who was like, oh my God, I can't wait to read this

390
00:42:56,300 --> 00:43:04,980
book. And yeah, my wife wants to do more vegan cooking and really thank you. I was like, oh,

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wow, that's great. Then there's other people who are like, not that I hang out with Rhodes scholars,

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but we know these elitists, people who are highly intelligent, highly successful,

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call themselves environmentalists, basically do a lot of extraordinary work and yet they can't get

394
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:33,400
it. Even though they're so smart, they can understand things that go over my head,

395
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like the nuances of the Mueller report, for example. How do you account for that discrepancy?

396
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Because that is one thing that really torments me. People who are so smart, but can't get the

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00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:53,720
simple concept that unnecessarily killing these animals and whether you like it or not,

398
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you're ordering the hit. Every time you buy a piece of meat or dairy, you are ordering the hit.

399
00:44:01,620 --> 00:44:06,020
They can't get that there's something deeply wrong with that. Angela.

400
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:14,020
Yeah. There's deep, both social and I think psychological factors that play into that.

401
00:44:14,020 --> 00:44:21,900
The social is that we are indoctrinated our whole lives to eat meat and dairy. As you mentioned,

402
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:29,240
the lobbying and the advertising and all the messaging we get supports this idea of eating

403
00:44:29,240 --> 00:44:36,900
meat. I think it's so prominent in our culture. It takes something special to break through that.

404
00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:46,500
You add in also our personal addictions to certain foods, our personal memories with foods. We were

405
00:44:46,500 --> 00:44:53,300
raised with certain foods and we attach emotional meaning to them. I try to understand why it's hard

406
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sometimes for people from those standpoints. Sometimes when something breaks through,

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00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:04,880
just some piece of information clicks with us where we become curious to learn more and go

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00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:14,600
beneath all that we've been conditioned and indoctrinated and just raised to believe and

409
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:22,900
think. We break through that to some new idea that once we understand it, it really makes total sense

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that of course animals suffer. I'm a compassionate person. I don't want to cause harm and I have

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other choices, but it really takes a breakthrough of some sort. I do believe that when there's more

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00:45:33,580 --> 00:45:40,100
vegans over time, it will take less to break through. Right now, I think that social factor is

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00:45:40,660 --> 00:45:51,220
a big deterrent that can get in the way. It's really fascinating. I do want to ask a

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follow-up question. Is there a certain personality type? In other words, when people want to sell

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00:46:00,180 --> 00:46:06,740
products, and Malcolm Gladwell has written about this, how trends accelerate and grow.

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They do study groups. They do focus groups. They try to find out what makes people tick,

417
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:18,580
what's going to make different people choose to buy this product, for example.

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00:46:19,780 --> 00:46:25,120
I don't know that we've done those kinds of focus groups as a movement, but do you have any

419
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:32,360
inkling? Is there a certain type of individual, let's say, people who are curious to learn? I

420
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would think people who are curious to learn would be more likely to want to transition to plant-based

421
00:46:40,740 --> 00:46:46,880
than people who are, let's say, know-it-alls. I know everything. Any thoughts on that, Angela?

422
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:53,840
Yeah, I agree with you. I don't know of any studies that specifically differentiate

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00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:59,760
personalities, but I would agree with you. I think some traits that probably would be common in people

424
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:05,560
that are open to the message sooner rather than later would be people that are, as you say,

425
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:13,340
curious to learn. I do think people that are higher in empathy might also be more prone to

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00:47:13,340 --> 00:47:21,260
get the message about animals more quickly than others. Also, just people that are willing to step

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00:47:21,260 --> 00:47:29,420
out and be different. If we're really, really wired, and some of us have a harder time being

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different, I think for that person where I don't want to be different than my family or my friends

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00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:43,380
and how I eat, it's more of a breakthrough in that case that we have to make of, okay, it's okay to

430
00:47:43,380 --> 00:47:50,200
be different because I'm doing what's right for me. I think people that are more independent in

431
00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:53,680
that way, it might be an easier step for them in the beginning.

432
00:47:55,220 --> 00:48:01,000
Well, I mean, Stephanie, any social justice movement, if you think of the suffragettes

433
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:07,260
who were trying to get women the right to vote, which we only got universal suffrage in 1920,

434
00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:12,560
so it's not that long ago, and some people are trying to take us back.

435
00:48:14,180 --> 00:48:21,220
But if you think about that, the women who were standing up were daring to be different.

436
00:48:21,780 --> 00:48:28,920
They were not just wanting the social status of the moment, which frowned on women working

437
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:35,140
and frowned on women having opinions and frowned on women who wanted to live outside the home and

438
00:48:35,140 --> 00:48:39,760
have a career. They dared to be different. I mean, maybe there's a campaign in there

439
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:45,860
because now those women are heroes, but at the time, they were considered a big pain in the

440
00:48:45,860 --> 00:48:53,820
you know what. Yes. I love that this topic came up. This is actually, I speak on this

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00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:58,700
in the last chapter of my ebook. It's just like 32 pages, the whole thing. So it's like

442
00:48:58,700 --> 00:49:05,420
chapter four, unexpected lessons veganism has taught me. So we all know that the health benefits,

443
00:49:06,120 --> 00:49:13,360
the ethical benefits, and the, oh my god, health, ethical, environmental, things like that,

444
00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:18,120
like the obvious benefits of veganism. However, the unexpected lessons, one of the very first

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00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:23,200
points I make is that veganism taught me how to say no, and I write a couple paragraphs on that.

446
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Another one, veganism taught me how to be different, how to be independent. I quit eating

447
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:35,320
meat when I was 15 and went vegan at 16. So when I started working in nightclubs at 18, 19, 20,

448
00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:41,080
I was saying no to drugs and alcohol. Peer pressure has nothing on me because I've been

449
00:49:41,080 --> 00:49:50,160
saying no to meat and dairy-based dinners with my family since I was 15. So I think Angela had a

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00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:55,940
really, really good point that people that are more likely to go vegan, like you have to be okay

451
00:49:55,940 --> 00:50:01,800
with being different. And then on the other hand, I mean, I feel like there are a lot of people who,

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00:50:02,140 --> 00:50:05,920
you know, if you're an introvert or you're shy or you're worried about what other people will think,

453
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it can make it more difficult for you to be able to go vegan. Or if you do, you're just more shy

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00:50:13,460 --> 00:50:18,200
and reserved about it and you keep it more private, which I think is okay too. You know, if you're an

455
00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:22,400
introvert, a quiet person, a private person, you can still be vegan. You don't need to be loud

456
00:50:23,220 --> 00:50:28,660
in order to be a good vegan. But I think that that's really important is just

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if you can be okay with being different, that's really powerful.

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I love that you said that. And when I was reading your book and I didn't read the entire thing,

459
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but I was going through it and that really struck me and I learned something that I didn't know,

460
00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:57,260
which is that veganism can teach you how to say no. And I'm a big people pleaser. It's very hard

461
00:50:57,260 --> 00:51:03,640
for me to say no, except sometimes I'm like, if I don't say no, I'm going to be collapsed on the

462
00:51:03,640 --> 00:51:11,120
floor in the fetal position because I'm one person and I can't do everything. You know, with Unchained

463
00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:19,000
TV, people think that we are the vegan CNN Netflix, but we don't have hundreds of people.

464
00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:25,140
And so I've had to learn to say no. And it always hurts me when I do, because I want to say yes to

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00:51:25,140 --> 00:51:32,040
everything. But I didn't realize what you just said, that going vegan gives you the strength

466
00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:40,680
to learn to say no in other areas of your life. Boom. That is a very wonderful observation.

467
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:47,620
Jeez. You know, this is a pretty fascinating conversation, Angela. I think it could be the

468
00:51:47,620 --> 00:51:56,240
most important issue of our time since let's face it, getting the culture to go plant-based

469
00:51:56,240 --> 00:52:02,340
is possibly what's going to be needed if we are to save our planet from a climate apocalypse.

470
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:11,160
Yeah. Yeah. What you're saying is so true. And so I, you know, I resonate with what Stephanie

471
00:52:11,160 --> 00:52:17,900
shared because I also found the strength to overcome those people pleasing tendencies that

472
00:52:17,900 --> 00:52:26,220
were within me that you also shared. And so I do feel veganism can be a path to our inner growth

473
00:52:26,240 --> 00:52:33,800
that can be helpful for us as much as it is for the world. And I think that's part of what I wanted

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00:52:33,800 --> 00:52:40,280
to convey through my book is that it's so interconnected when we choose our own well-being

475
00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:45,020
through plant-based nutrition, through a vegan lifestyle, through aligning with our values.

476
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:51,860
It also ripples into helping all these other things we care about. And then it comes back to

477
00:52:51,860 --> 00:52:56,920
us because when I'm caring about all sentient beings and I'm caring for the planet, it makes

478
00:52:56,920 --> 00:53:02,520
my life better too. So it's discovering it's worth breaking through whatever might be a little

479
00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:10,740
challenging to learn how to navigate all those, you know, to speak up, to say no, to lead in the

480
00:53:10,740 --> 00:53:17,960
ways you can, to learn the practical cooking skills or food prep skills. All of that is worth

481
00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:23,000
because what we gain and what we share beyond ourselves.

482
00:53:23,620 --> 00:53:28,520
We are just about out of time. This has been a fascinating conversation. I don't know about you,

483
00:53:28,560 --> 00:53:35,300
but I could talk about this for hours. I urge all of you get these books. It's a great holiday gift,

484
00:53:35,440 --> 00:53:45,540
a birthday gift for someone or read it for yourself. Absolutely brilliant books that we

485
00:53:45,540 --> 00:53:52,160
need to support. And I'm so really honored that I was able to have a discussion with these two

486
00:53:52,160 --> 00:54:00,500
amazing authors, Vegan Transformation and Life Veganized. So I think we'll do final thoughts.

487
00:54:01,260 --> 00:54:06,840
What is your final thought, Stephanie, as we wrap up this whole discussion?

488
00:54:09,140 --> 00:54:16,500
Well, I think I, as far as my part, I'm just trying to do my part to promote the vegan movement,

489
00:54:16,500 --> 00:54:21,500
get us closer to a vegan world, which I do think we can achieve one day. I think that

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00:54:21,500 --> 00:54:27,240
educating people is the key to moving towards that, to having a better future.

491
00:54:27,760 --> 00:54:32,000
I have a lot of faith in humanity. I think that a lot of people would be vegan if they knew the

492
00:54:32,000 --> 00:54:37,460
truth about the ethical aspects, environmental, the health benefits, that kind of thing. So I'm

493
00:54:37,460 --> 00:54:44,080
just trying to do my part to spread the word and give people a good why. Excellent. Angela,

494
00:54:44,080 --> 00:54:50,420
your final thought? Yeah, I am inspired by the vegans I met through my research

495
00:54:51,120 --> 00:54:59,060
and both of you and other vegans that I know, because in living our values and really

496
00:54:59,060 --> 00:55:04,760
discovering that we can make a difference through our food and other choices and through this

497
00:55:04,760 --> 00:55:11,820
lifestyle, it has such an impact on so many things that matter to all of us. And so I just

498
00:55:11,820 --> 00:55:20,000
would focus on that we can be role models for what matters. And we can also focus on the positives

499
00:55:20,000 --> 00:55:24,540
that we gain through this, because yes, there are a lot of negative things we're trying to overcome,

500
00:55:24,540 --> 00:55:30,040
but there's also so many positives that people can look to as they move in this direction

501
00:55:30,700 --> 00:55:36,320
of being vegan. I want to thank you both for taking the time. I know you're very busy

502
00:55:36,320 --> 00:55:42,780
women doing so much. I also would urge everybody who watched and thank you for watching,

503
00:55:43,020 --> 00:55:47,520
share it out if you're watching on social media, and you can also share it out if you're watching

504
00:55:47,520 --> 00:55:55,160
Unchained TV on your phone, you can literally text this or any other episode to your friends. So

505
00:55:55,160 --> 00:56:00,840
first you got to download Unchained TV, we're the world's only vegan streaming television network,

506
00:56:00,840 --> 00:56:06,440
again, available on your phone available at unchainedtv.com. And it's on your TV. If you've

507
00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:11,840
got an Amazon Fire Stick, a Roku device, or an Apple TV device. It's also on all Samsung and LG

508
00:56:11,840 --> 00:56:17,540
TVs as well. So it's a vegan Netflix. Okay, that's the craziest thing I've ever heard. I love Unchained

509
00:56:17,540 --> 00:56:24,180
TV. Unchained TV, your life will change. It's just that easy. Unchained TV has all sorts of

510
00:56:24,180 --> 00:56:31,700
content for everybody. Unchained TV changed my life. Unchained TV is crushing it. I love

511
00:56:31,700 --> 00:56:38,620
Unchained TV. Unchained TV is my go to. Unchained TV. Who knew? Unchained baby.