UnchainedTV: What is the state of the global vegan scene in food & fashion?

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Oh, we are in the midst of a

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revolution or is it an evolution?

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As many, many people go out of their

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way to try to convince the world we

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don't need to kill kangaroos for shoes.

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We don't need to kill chickens for chicken

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wings.

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These are made from cauliflower and they're delicious.

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And we're gonna talk to the chef.

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We don't need to kill cows to make

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burgers.

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These are quinoa burgers with a perfect protein

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in them.

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So how are we doing?

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How are we convincing 8.1 billion humans

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that the ways of old not working for

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us now?

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We've got two incredible authors with us today.

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Jonathan Ohan of Fake Movement and Healthy Voyagers.

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Carolyn Scott Hamilton.

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They are amazing.

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I'm gonna start with Carolyn.

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Carolyn, you do everything you can to convince

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the public that you don't need to kill

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animals to have a fabulous, fabulous dish.

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How are we doing?

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How are we doing?

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Great, great.

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How are you?

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How are we doing as a movement to

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wake people up?

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I think I've been vegan for 26 years

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now and I am shocked and excited at

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how far we've come.

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26 years ago, people would look at me

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and say, oh my gosh, that's gotta be

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so hard.

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No one had heard of it.

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It was just kind of starting grassroots.

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And now the fact that I hear vegan,

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plant-based everywhere around the world, it's, I

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think we're doing really well.

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We still have quite a bit of a

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ways to go, but I've seen it just

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go leaps and bounds ahead further than I

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ever expected it to go, especially in this

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short amount of time.

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Well, I love the fact that you are

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positive about this because there are so many

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people who are saying right now we're under

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attack.

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We've got nasty articles being written about vegans

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and veganism and there's sort of a campaign

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being waged against veganism probably because we are

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successful.

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So I wanna bring in Jonathan Ohayon in.

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He's an amazing author of this book and

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we're gonna get to your book too, Carolyn,

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but this one is just out and it's

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a very provocative title.

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The Fashion Industry Does Not Want You to

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Read This Book.

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Oh my gosh, Jonathan, tell us why the

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fashion industry does not want you to read

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your book.

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Because they want to keep using greenwashing with

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us and to keep sending us things while

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we don't know what it truly is.

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So that's why they don't want you to

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be educated because they know that this is

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the power.

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The power is education.

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And yeah, I love to say we're all

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superhero.

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Our superpower is choice and the responsibility we

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have is education.

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That's how we will be able to make

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those choices.

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So that's why they don't want you to

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read this book.

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What are some of the things in the

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book that are alarming?

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Oh, there's over 70 questions.

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Each question could be a whole book on

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his own.

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So there's so many problem.

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I talk about the way we treat humans,

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the way we treat, of course, animals, the

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way we treat our environment.

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So it will be very hard to just

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pick one, but yeah, there's so many different

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example of the thing they don't want you

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to read.

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Well, I think this is a fascinating book.

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And one thing I really love about it

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is that, people go, oh, Amazon.

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Well, you are only printing out books after

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they are ordered.

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So there is no waste of like printing

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20, 30, 40,000 books.

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I hope it sells 40,000, but if

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it doesn't, there's no trees that are gonna

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be killed and it's also available on Kindle.

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So why did you choose that?

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And to me, it's obvious, but maybe people

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don't understand because what it means is that

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no tree has to be cut down if

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somebody doesn't buy that book.

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Exactly.

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A lot of people ask me, so how

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many did you print?

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And I print zero because that's the beauty

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of it.

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So you upload your book on Amazon and

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basically it's print on demand.

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So once someone place an order, they will

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print the book and then they will ship

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it.

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So yeah, this is why I choose this

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system.

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Love it.

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So Carolyn, you have a new series on

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Unchained TV.

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We are so delighted to have you on

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Unchained TV.

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We're thrilled.

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It's dozens and dozens of recipes.

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You've got all the favourite foods, the burgers,

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the wings, the enchiladas.

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And you did that on purpose, right?

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Because people generally say I could never give

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up, blah, blah and you're saying they don't

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have to give that up.

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That's true.

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And that's been my mission ever since I

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started Healthy Voyager.

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I started my travel show in 2006 before

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social media even started.

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And in that, having been a chef, I

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thought, you know what?

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Let me start taking all these traditional foods

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that I'm trying all over the world and

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veganize them so that people who either travelled

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and didn't get to try that food or

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grew up eating some sort of traditional food,

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missed having that food, could enjoy it in

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their own homes and not have to sacrifice

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flavour.

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So I launched two, well now three cookbooks

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and the cooking show.

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And I feel like I've helped kind of

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push the movement forward to prove that vegan

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food is delicious, that eating ethnic international foods

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is easy to do in your own home,

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vegan style.

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So I'm really excited that you guys are

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airing my show on Unchained.

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Yeah, and your book is called Global Kitchen,

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150 Plant-Based Recipes from Around the World.

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Oh my gosh, just even thinking of 150

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plant-based recipes is enough to blow my

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mind.

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I really have to ask you, how did

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you become this chef extraordinaire?

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I started kind of teaching myself on my

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own in the early days and then I

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went to culinary school and then I just

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kind of mixed everything I grew up with

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as a kid, I'm Colombian and French.

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So everything I learned from my grandmas, I

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always loved being in the kitchen mixed with

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traditional culinary training.

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I just love veganizing.

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And that actually is the original book.

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I released the 10th anniversary edition and now

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it has 175 recipes.

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So this is the one that's available on

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Amazon now.

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The previous one is now, I think out

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of print.

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So this is the one you wanna look

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for.

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It's the same book, just updated and with

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more recipes.

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All right, well, we've already got a caller

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to question you about our question.

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Our greater question is, how are we doing

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when it comes to convincing the world that

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we don't need to kill animals for a

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purse, a jacket, shoes, chicken wings, or a

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burger?

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Neelofar in Dallas, Texas, your question or thought.

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Hi, this question is for Jonathan Ohayoun because

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you're from Belgium.

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If we assume that Western Europe is walking

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on the frontiers of veganism, are you guys

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considerably ahead of the US in terms of

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the vegan scene?

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Western Europe has a population of about 200

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million US.

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We are at a population of 335 million.

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If let's say we give the United States

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one star as far as the veganism scene,

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how many stars would you give to Europe?

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Thank you.

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Go ahead, Jonathan.

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I'm not sure I understood right the questions.

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So you're saying that- Let me just

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say this.

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I understood the question.

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United States is often behind Europe.

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We're behind when it comes to environmental protections,

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cruelty-free, cosmetics, all sorts of things.

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When it comes to the vegan movement in

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general, how far is Europe ahead of the

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United States?

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Yeah, it's funny because I see it a

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little differently.

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I actually think that the US is a

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little forward.

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We have so many vegan options, way more

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than in France from my perspectives.

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I think it's a fight.

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It depends what we talk about.

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If we talk about food, I think the

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US is way above the French.

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When you go to a restaurant or somewhere

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and you ask for vegan options, people know

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what you talk about.

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In France, they don't understand as much as

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in the US.

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That's my perspective.

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Regarding textile, yeah, there's more law in France,

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but the US is about the same.

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That's why people produce overseas.

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It's because, yeah, I think it's about the

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same.

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I wouldn't say that one is better than

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the other.

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Well, I will say this.

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Here in the United States, we have more

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protests.

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Now, there are a lot of protests in

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England.

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I'll give you that.

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And in fact, we profiled a group called

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Animal Rising, which does incredible protests.

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But we kind of take the cake for

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protests about fashion.

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I want to show you one or two

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that are pretty darn interesting.

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This one just happened a couple of days

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ago in New York City against Adidas for

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using kangaroo leather on shoes.

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Kangaroos are not shoes!

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Kangaroos are not shoes!

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Adidas.

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Stop killing kangaroos to make soccer cleats.

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Stop the torture, stop the pain.

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Adidas football is not good.

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Kangaroos are not shoes!

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So here they go.

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They may be trying to go into the

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store.

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Let's see, maybe some of them will get

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in.

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This is called a disruption when they go

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inside.

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Adidas football is not good.

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Kangaroos are not shoes.

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Stop the torture, stop the pain.

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Stop the torture.

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It's clear, kangaroos are not shoes.

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That's the message.

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We're the largest slaughter of land-based mammals

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in the entire world of kangaroos.

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00:10:37,790 --> 00:10:40,450
One million kangaroos are gunned down in the

278
00:10:40,450 --> 00:10:43,190
dark of night and Adidas hunters steal their

279
00:10:43,190 --> 00:10:44,430
skin to make soccer shoes.

280
00:10:44,830 --> 00:10:46,350
Kangaroos are not shoes.

281
00:10:46,350 --> 00:10:48,490
If Nike, Puma, and New Balance can make

282
00:10:48,490 --> 00:10:51,950
the switch in 2023 for kangaroo skin to

283
00:10:51,950 --> 00:10:54,410
cruelty-free material, then so can Adidas.

284
00:10:54,570 --> 00:10:55,970
Kangaroos are not shoes.

285
00:10:56,130 --> 00:10:57,050
Stop the torture.

286
00:10:58,330 --> 00:11:02,130
There you go, a very intense protest.

287
00:11:02,970 --> 00:11:06,290
And I know that the head of Adidas

288
00:11:06,290 --> 00:11:09,650
has responded and said, we're not gonna respond

289
00:11:09,650 --> 00:11:12,090
to protests, but I have a feeling that

290
00:11:12,090 --> 00:11:16,150
that's primarily what these companies respond to is

291
00:11:16,150 --> 00:11:17,250
pressure campaigns.

292
00:11:17,710 --> 00:11:19,290
And by the way, Adidas is invited on

293
00:11:19,290 --> 00:11:20,070
any time.

294
00:11:20,410 --> 00:11:22,890
Thanks to Danny Rukin for providing that video.

295
00:11:23,370 --> 00:11:26,230
So, you know, that's one side of the

296
00:11:26,230 --> 00:11:26,670
equation.

297
00:11:26,890 --> 00:11:29,450
On the other side of the equation, when

298
00:11:29,450 --> 00:11:31,390
I just am out on the streets and

299
00:11:31,390 --> 00:11:32,910
I live here in LA, I was just

300
00:11:32,910 --> 00:11:34,570
in Washington, DC, I was just in New

301
00:11:34,570 --> 00:11:36,390
York City, and I look at people's feet,

302
00:11:36,790 --> 00:11:38,470
it used to be that everybody was wearing

303
00:11:38,470 --> 00:11:39,170
leather shoes.

304
00:11:39,170 --> 00:11:42,130
And now I see the vast majority of

305
00:11:42,130 --> 00:11:44,950
people are not wearing, in my opinion, I

306
00:11:44,950 --> 00:11:46,190
look at people's feet.

307
00:11:47,130 --> 00:11:48,570
I've done this for a while, it seems

308
00:11:48,570 --> 00:11:50,590
more and more people are wearing non-leather

309
00:11:50,590 --> 00:11:53,870
shoes as just an unintended consequence, not as

310
00:11:53,870 --> 00:11:55,110
a political statement, Jonathan.

311
00:11:56,170 --> 00:11:57,770
Yeah, yeah, I totally agree.

312
00:11:57,930 --> 00:11:59,250
And that's what we need to do.

313
00:11:59,310 --> 00:12:01,970
We need to shift our mindset and stop

314
00:12:01,970 --> 00:12:05,190
to putting leather on a pedestal.

315
00:12:05,370 --> 00:12:08,130
Leather is horrible and we need alternatives.

316
00:12:08,130 --> 00:12:11,290
You can use amazing shoes made of organic

317
00:12:11,290 --> 00:12:14,750
cotton, organic hemp, and yeah, we don't need

318
00:12:14,750 --> 00:12:15,050
leather.

319
00:12:15,550 --> 00:12:17,250
And I find it funny how people, I

320
00:12:17,250 --> 00:12:19,250
mean, funny, it's not funny, but how people

321
00:12:19,250 --> 00:12:22,790
get offended and they get disgusted when we

322
00:12:22,790 --> 00:12:25,450
talk about kangaroo leather or dog leather, because

323
00:12:25,450 --> 00:12:27,150
it is something, it exists.

324
00:12:27,830 --> 00:12:29,850
And what about cow leather?

325
00:12:29,950 --> 00:12:31,890
What is the difference between a kangaroo and

326
00:12:31,890 --> 00:12:32,190
a cow?

327
00:12:32,310 --> 00:12:33,230
They are both beings.

328
00:12:33,770 --> 00:12:37,030
And yeah, I'm happy that this helps people

329
00:12:37,030 --> 00:12:37,970
to make the connection.

330
00:12:38,510 --> 00:12:41,010
But yeah, the next step is to make

331
00:12:41,010 --> 00:12:43,330
people realise that there's no difference between a

332
00:12:43,330 --> 00:12:44,110
kangaroo and a cow.

333
00:12:44,950 --> 00:12:45,510
Absolutely.

334
00:12:46,490 --> 00:12:48,910
We've got more callers lining up.

335
00:12:49,070 --> 00:12:50,350
Let's go to our callers.

336
00:12:51,010 --> 00:12:54,310
Lindsay in Tarzana, California, your question or thought

337
00:12:54,310 --> 00:12:55,770
for our fabulous panel.

338
00:12:55,990 --> 00:12:59,090
We've got Jonathan Ohio, author of the new

339
00:12:59,090 --> 00:13:01,350
book, The Fashion Industry Does Not Want You

340
00:13:01,350 --> 00:13:02,030
to Read This Book.

341
00:13:02,230 --> 00:13:05,830
And Carol Scott Hamilton, author of Healthy Voyager's

342
00:13:05,830 --> 00:13:09,370
Global Kitchen, a new edition just out, as

343
00:13:09,370 --> 00:13:12,150
well as a fabulous series on Unchained TV.

344
00:13:12,350 --> 00:13:13,210
What's your question?

345
00:13:15,730 --> 00:13:17,390
Question is more of a comment.

346
00:13:17,590 --> 00:13:20,190
I'm actually on the road, so hopefully you

347
00:13:20,190 --> 00:13:21,630
can hear me and I can hear you.

348
00:13:22,090 --> 00:13:24,010
I just wanted to say regarding the book

349
00:13:24,010 --> 00:13:29,970
about eating during travel, being able to have

350
00:13:29,970 --> 00:13:31,950
vegan food while travelling, I think that's an

351
00:13:31,950 --> 00:13:36,010
amazing, necessary thing for myself and many other

352
00:13:36,010 --> 00:13:36,690
vegans.

353
00:13:37,070 --> 00:13:38,670
I did have a question actually.

354
00:13:39,430 --> 00:13:43,490
Nike kind of caved very quickly, thankfully to

355
00:13:43,490 --> 00:13:44,550
the pressure campaign.

356
00:13:45,150 --> 00:13:47,790
Why do you think Adidas is resisting since

357
00:13:47,790 --> 00:13:50,130
you are an expert, you both are experts?

358
00:13:50,810 --> 00:13:52,790
I'd like to get your opinion on that.

359
00:13:54,170 --> 00:13:54,730
Jonathan.

360
00:13:55,590 --> 00:13:56,430
Thank you.

361
00:13:56,670 --> 00:14:00,550
Hey, I'm sorry it gets a little bit.

362
00:14:00,550 --> 00:14:06,510
What is the reason why Adidas is not

363
00:14:06,510 --> 00:14:09,590
responding the way Nike, Puma, and New Balance

364
00:14:09,590 --> 00:14:12,070
responded by stopping the kangaroo leather?

365
00:14:15,610 --> 00:14:17,630
Oh, I have no idea.

366
00:14:17,770 --> 00:14:18,930
Maybe we're not loud enough.

367
00:14:19,370 --> 00:14:21,250
It's, let's say, I think the problem is

368
00:14:21,250 --> 00:14:23,690
the educators are not educated.

369
00:14:23,950 --> 00:14:25,910
They keep buying goods that they probably don't

370
00:14:25,910 --> 00:14:26,190
know.

371
00:14:26,310 --> 00:14:28,690
It's kangaroo leather, because when you take the

372
00:14:28,690 --> 00:14:30,230
label, it doesn't say kangaroo leather.

373
00:14:30,230 --> 00:14:33,530
It say either genuine leather or okay leather.

374
00:14:34,130 --> 00:14:36,070
They might think it's a type of leather,

375
00:14:36,570 --> 00:14:38,110
but most of people, if we go on

376
00:14:38,110 --> 00:14:40,090
the street and we ask them, would you

377
00:14:40,090 --> 00:14:40,930
wear kangaroo leather?

378
00:14:41,110 --> 00:14:42,450
Most of them will say, oh no, this

379
00:14:42,450 --> 00:14:42,930
is horrible.

380
00:14:43,290 --> 00:14:44,250
I wouldn't.

381
00:14:44,750 --> 00:14:46,630
So yeah, again, I think it's the lack

382
00:14:46,630 --> 00:14:47,410
of education.

383
00:14:47,610 --> 00:14:50,290
We need to educate people and then people,

384
00:14:50,850 --> 00:14:52,770
meaning the consumers, are the one who will

385
00:14:52,770 --> 00:14:53,750
make this shift.

386
00:14:56,150 --> 00:14:58,550
Yes, very, very interesting.

387
00:14:59,150 --> 00:15:01,590
My theory is that they feel like they

388
00:15:01,590 --> 00:15:02,750
can get away with it.

389
00:15:04,010 --> 00:15:07,530
These companies, in my opinion, they only respond

390
00:15:07,530 --> 00:15:09,990
when it's, it's like a mathematical calculation.

391
00:15:10,630 --> 00:15:13,130
If it's costing them more in terms of

392
00:15:13,130 --> 00:15:15,990
their brand, in terms of their global image,

393
00:15:16,090 --> 00:15:19,450
in terms of dollars and cents to keep

394
00:15:19,450 --> 00:15:23,410
the kangaroo leather on because of all these

395
00:15:23,410 --> 00:15:26,550
protests, that's the ultimate reason when they will

396
00:15:26,550 --> 00:15:27,290
take it off.

397
00:15:27,290 --> 00:15:29,550
It's not like they're gonna have a change

398
00:15:29,550 --> 00:15:31,790
of heart or suddenly care about kangaroos.

399
00:15:31,890 --> 00:15:33,050
That's my humble opinion.

400
00:15:33,370 --> 00:15:35,330
I invite Adidas on anytime.

401
00:15:35,810 --> 00:15:37,870
And I also think when it gets personal,

402
00:15:38,330 --> 00:15:43,370
before any of these campaigns happen, organisations, including

403
00:15:43,370 --> 00:15:48,290
members of parliament from Australia have written letters

404
00:15:48,290 --> 00:15:52,910
politely urging these companies to stop, in this

405
00:15:52,910 --> 00:15:57,710
case, the largest slaughter of land-based wildlife

406
00:15:57,710 --> 00:15:58,910
in the world.

407
00:15:59,830 --> 00:16:01,990
And so it's not like people just wake

408
00:16:01,990 --> 00:16:03,670
up and start charging into stores.

409
00:16:04,030 --> 00:16:06,310
There's a whole thing that has happened prior

410
00:16:06,310 --> 00:16:09,450
to that where people are begging and pleading

411
00:16:09,450 --> 00:16:14,330
with people, these executives, to stop for environmental

412
00:16:14,330 --> 00:16:15,030
reasons.

413
00:16:15,350 --> 00:16:19,970
I mean, we have reduced wildlife biomass to

414
00:16:19,970 --> 00:16:23,870
4% of total mammal biomass on this

415
00:16:23,870 --> 00:16:30,250
planet while increasing livestock biomass to 62%.

416
00:16:30,250 --> 00:16:32,410
And if you think about that, what that

417
00:16:32,410 --> 00:16:35,970
means is that most animals, most living beings

418
00:16:35,970 --> 00:16:38,770
on this planet were born to be paged,

419
00:16:39,170 --> 00:16:42,370
tortured, and killed at a very young age.

420
00:16:42,510 --> 00:16:47,670
And there is something profoundly, morally, environmentally, and

421
00:16:47,670 --> 00:16:49,810
spiritually wrong with that fact.

422
00:16:50,190 --> 00:16:54,370
And we wonder why our lives are in

423
00:16:54,370 --> 00:16:57,050
such turmoil, our world is in such turmoil.

424
00:16:57,770 --> 00:16:59,050
I mean, my God.

425
00:16:59,490 --> 00:17:02,830
So it's not like people haven't asked nicely.

426
00:17:03,390 --> 00:17:05,849
They ask nicely, it just doesn't work.

427
00:17:06,910 --> 00:17:09,750
So I wanna get back to the other

428
00:17:09,750 --> 00:17:10,650
side of this equation.

429
00:17:10,890 --> 00:17:13,089
Fashion is very controversial right now, but so

430
00:17:13,089 --> 00:17:13,690
is food.

431
00:17:13,829 --> 00:17:16,210
And it doesn't have to be that way.

432
00:17:16,210 --> 00:17:20,609
Carolyn, I wanna play a video of one

433
00:17:20,609 --> 00:17:22,810
of your many, many cooking segments.

434
00:17:23,050 --> 00:17:26,270
And they offer a way to have all

435
00:17:26,270 --> 00:17:29,810
this comfort food that people say they can't

436
00:17:29,810 --> 00:17:34,950
live without, a healthier version with better ingredients

437
00:17:34,950 --> 00:17:40,230
that have better qualities, antioxidants, anti-inflammatories, perfect

438
00:17:40,230 --> 00:17:41,890
proteins, all the amino acids.

439
00:17:42,850 --> 00:17:44,450
It's a win-win-win.

440
00:17:47,890 --> 00:17:50,270
Hi guys, it's me, Carolyn Scott-Hamilton, and

441
00:17:50,270 --> 00:17:52,490
welcome to another episode of the Healthy Voyager's

442
00:17:52,490 --> 00:17:53,270
Global Kitchen.

443
00:17:53,450 --> 00:17:55,950
It's summer grillin' season, and we're making a

444
00:17:55,950 --> 00:17:57,710
buffalo black bean quinoa burger.

445
00:17:57,950 --> 00:17:59,790
Good general hot sauce for all sorts of

446
00:17:59,790 --> 00:18:00,030
things.

447
00:18:00,450 --> 00:18:03,870
All right, so we'll flip these guys over

448
00:18:03,870 --> 00:18:05,850
one more time just to seal in the

449
00:18:05,850 --> 00:18:09,630
flavour of this hot sauce on those.

450
00:18:12,670 --> 00:18:13,750
Yeah, grill it.

451
00:18:16,660 --> 00:18:18,080
Yeah, those are gonna, like the fun thing

452
00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:20,200
about using quinoa too when you're making a

453
00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:23,920
burger is that it gets crispy too and

454
00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:24,240
crunchy.

455
00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:25,240
Wow, look at that.

456
00:18:25,420 --> 00:18:26,920
Look at that, big mouth burger.

457
00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:27,660
Huge.

458
00:18:27,660 --> 00:18:28,480
That's good stuff.

459
00:18:28,820 --> 00:18:29,920
Now, okay, we'll see.

460
00:18:30,100 --> 00:18:31,760
The bread is really big here.

461
00:18:31,980 --> 00:18:32,200
All right.

462
00:18:32,380 --> 00:18:33,580
All right, you first.

463
00:18:37,360 --> 00:18:38,680
Mm, mm, really good.

464
00:18:39,220 --> 00:18:39,780
It's pretty good, huh?

465
00:18:39,780 --> 00:18:40,580
Yeah, I'm not kidding.

466
00:18:40,700 --> 00:18:43,080
I mean, you know, I mean, I'm not

467
00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:44,540
a vegan eater.

468
00:18:44,740 --> 00:18:44,940
Yeah.

469
00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:45,920
And this is really good.

470
00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:46,960
The spice is great, by the way.

471
00:18:48,180 --> 00:18:51,660
All right, Carolyn, here he is.

472
00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:54,360
He's not a vegan eater, but he loves

473
00:18:54,360 --> 00:18:55,500
the vegan food.

474
00:18:55,980 --> 00:18:57,180
What's your takeaway on that?

475
00:18:57,240 --> 00:18:59,500
Because the burger, I chose that because it's

476
00:18:59,500 --> 00:19:00,180
the ultimate.

477
00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:02,980
It's really the ultimate battleground when it comes

478
00:19:02,980 --> 00:19:04,560
to food is the burger.

479
00:19:05,580 --> 00:19:08,720
Yeah, I think that's a good gateway into

480
00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:09,860
the non-vegans, right?

481
00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:11,600
That and some kind of pasta dish.

482
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:13,820
And I get that a lot, and I've

483
00:19:13,820 --> 00:19:14,980
been getting that for years.

484
00:19:14,980 --> 00:19:18,580
A majority of my followers aren't even vegan.

485
00:19:19,260 --> 00:19:22,520
And I love that I get comments all

486
00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:22,980
the time.

487
00:19:23,060 --> 00:19:24,660
Oh, wow, I never would have known this

488
00:19:24,660 --> 00:19:25,160
was vegan.

489
00:19:25,540 --> 00:19:27,300
Oh, I didn't know vegan could taste so

490
00:19:27,300 --> 00:19:27,640
delicious.

491
00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:31,160
I think, you know, there's still such a

492
00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:34,560
weird myth of like, you know, 70s health

493
00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:38,260
food, you know, of like dry, tasteless, nothing

494
00:19:38,260 --> 00:19:38,840
food.

495
00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:42,920
And we've come such a long way, not

496
00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:46,820
just with, you know, inventing cool alternatives or

497
00:19:46,820 --> 00:19:49,580
recipes, but all the alternatives that exist now

498
00:19:49,580 --> 00:19:52,980
for vegan meats, vegan cheeses, which is the

499
00:19:52,980 --> 00:19:53,720
one I get the most.

500
00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:55,020
Oh, I could never give up cheese.

501
00:19:55,100 --> 00:19:56,580
I'm like, you can.

502
00:19:56,780 --> 00:19:59,240
And now it's so easy.

503
00:19:59,460 --> 00:20:00,920
You know, back when I started, there was

504
00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:01,580
no such thing.

505
00:20:01,660 --> 00:20:05,080
I think we had Tofurella, which was terrible.

506
00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:06,980
And I thought to myself, well, I'll just

507
00:20:06,980 --> 00:20:08,400
have to give up cheese and make some

508
00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:09,660
kind of funky sauces, right?

509
00:20:09,660 --> 00:20:13,560
But now we have come so far and

510
00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:16,820
the amount of vegan cheeses and alternatives are

511
00:20:16,820 --> 00:20:17,820
just mind blowing.

512
00:20:17,940 --> 00:20:18,920
And this is worldwide.

513
00:20:19,260 --> 00:20:21,420
And it's funny that you guys were talking

514
00:20:21,420 --> 00:20:22,260
about in Europe.

515
00:20:22,540 --> 00:20:25,900
When I'm in Europe, the amount of vegan

516
00:20:25,900 --> 00:20:28,960
options at restaurants, as well as in the

517
00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:30,360
markets are just astounding.

518
00:20:30,620 --> 00:20:34,480
I'm so excited to see the constant growth

519
00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:35,380
in that space.

520
00:20:36,140 --> 00:20:37,260
I agree.

521
00:20:37,260 --> 00:20:41,100
It's funny because Jonathan, you're from France and

522
00:20:41,100 --> 00:20:42,440
I haven't been to France for a while.

523
00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:45,040
And when I was there years ago, I

524
00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:47,180
think it was like 2012, there were no

525
00:20:47,180 --> 00:20:48,540
vegan options that I could find.

526
00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:51,020
But I've heard that that's changed.

527
00:20:51,120 --> 00:20:53,120
Now, when I went to Berlin and on

528
00:20:53,120 --> 00:20:57,380
Unshamed TV, we have an entire mini doc

529
00:20:57,380 --> 00:20:58,460
on vegan Berlin.

530
00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:01,080
It was so vegan that I actually had

531
00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:03,900
to stop videotaping because we couldn't get a

532
00:21:03,900 --> 00:21:04,680
couple of blocks.

533
00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:06,520
The same thing for London.

534
00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:09,260
So it really depends just like in the

535
00:21:09,260 --> 00:21:11,520
United States, there's Texas and then there's LA.

536
00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:14,500
It depends on where you are in Europe.

537
00:21:14,820 --> 00:21:17,140
We've got another caller, Paige from Los Angeles,

538
00:21:17,300 --> 00:21:19,180
your question or thought for our fabulous panel.

539
00:21:23,150 --> 00:21:23,490
Paige.

540
00:21:26,220 --> 00:21:26,660
Hello.

541
00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:28,860
Yes, Paige, your question or thought.

542
00:21:30,020 --> 00:21:30,600
Thank you.

543
00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:31,020
I'm sorry.

544
00:21:31,120 --> 00:21:31,640
Yes, great.

545
00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:33,240
Hi, thank you.

546
00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:35,200
I know we were talking about food and

547
00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:37,060
cheese here, but I wanted to circle back

548
00:21:37,060 --> 00:21:38,560
to Jonathan's book, which I have in my

549
00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:38,880
hand.

550
00:21:39,860 --> 00:21:40,300
Incredible.

551
00:21:40,300 --> 00:21:43,080
And one thing I've noticed is there's so

552
00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:46,420
much conversation about the greenwashing, right?

553
00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:50,360
As well as vintage, retro, transparent, zero waste,

554
00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:53,260
all these terms, these buzzwords and terms, it

555
00:21:53,260 --> 00:21:54,380
kind of gets confusing.

556
00:21:54,580 --> 00:21:55,840
Where do you shop?

557
00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:57,240
How do you shop?

558
00:21:57,340 --> 00:21:59,440
And then also, I know I brought this

559
00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:01,760
up when we were in person, wool.

560
00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:03,740
A lot of people come up to me

561
00:22:03,740 --> 00:22:06,540
at the LA Fashion, the LA Fur Vigils

562
00:22:06,540 --> 00:22:08,720
that we hold, with the signs that say,

563
00:22:08,820 --> 00:22:11,040
I am not wool, which are the sheep.

564
00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:15,200
Can you please advise us the best way

565
00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:18,240
to answer that question of, is it wool

566
00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:18,720
ethical?

567
00:22:20,500 --> 00:22:21,640
Great question.

568
00:22:21,780 --> 00:22:22,160
Jonathan.

569
00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:26,180
Yeah, it's not ethical at all, especially nowadays.

570
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:31,420
Basically before, the wool were having their hair

571
00:22:31,420 --> 00:22:34,460
growing during the winter to protect from the

572
00:22:34,460 --> 00:22:34,700
cold.

573
00:22:35,180 --> 00:22:39,800
And when the summer arrived, the wool will

574
00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:42,580
naturally fall, which is normal.

575
00:22:43,900 --> 00:22:47,840
But now they genetically choose them to breed

576
00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:51,560
them into this kind of sheep that have

577
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:54,080
wool that keep growing and never stop growing.

578
00:22:54,420 --> 00:22:56,940
And so like that, they can produce more.

579
00:22:57,500 --> 00:22:59,740
The way they shred them is horrible.

580
00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:01,540
You can Google it, you will see there's

581
00:23:01,540 --> 00:23:03,940
so many horrible videos about this, because they

582
00:23:03,940 --> 00:23:07,100
don't get paid per sheep, but they get

583
00:23:07,100 --> 00:23:10,260
paid per hour, but per sheep.

584
00:23:10,660 --> 00:23:13,780
So the more sheep they can have, the

585
00:23:13,780 --> 00:23:17,340
more wool they can have per day, the

586
00:23:17,340 --> 00:23:18,340
more they're gonna make money.

587
00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:19,940
So that's why they go super fast.

588
00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:22,400
The sheep are very scared.

589
00:23:22,740 --> 00:23:24,700
But that's not only that, it's their entire

590
00:23:24,700 --> 00:23:25,700
life that is suffering.

591
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:28,080
They have to do a nose sling, which

592
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:30,720
is basically cutting a piece of the tail

593
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:32,640
so they don't get infected.

594
00:23:33,180 --> 00:23:35,040
They do it without anaesthesia.

595
00:23:35,620 --> 00:23:37,420
And one of the worst thing I ever

596
00:23:37,420 --> 00:23:39,420
watched is what they call the dipping.

597
00:23:40,120 --> 00:23:42,060
So there's a cage where you can have

598
00:23:42,060 --> 00:23:43,060
maybe 10 sheep.

599
00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:45,640
They're gonna put 15 to 20 sheep inside.

600
00:23:45,740 --> 00:23:47,240
So they are compacting this cage.

601
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:51,160
And this cage will slow being totally submerged

602
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:52,720
in a pool of pesticides.

603
00:23:53,180 --> 00:23:54,840
And this is to kill all the flea

604
00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:57,120
and all the little insects that can be

605
00:23:57,120 --> 00:23:57,480
on them.

606
00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:00,780
And they are inside this pool, completely submerged

607
00:24:00,780 --> 00:24:03,280
for like 10, 20 seconds, and then it

608
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:03,920
goes up slowly.

609
00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:07,320
So it's a lot of horrible practises like

610
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:08,040
that that they have.

611
00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:12,560
And yeah, definitely wool is horrible, especially you

612
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:13,620
have so many alternatives.

613
00:24:13,820 --> 00:24:14,920
You have organic cotton.

614
00:24:15,260 --> 00:24:16,840
You're asking where you can find those.

615
00:24:17,300 --> 00:24:18,440
There's many places online.

616
00:24:19,120 --> 00:24:21,880
There's a marketplace that actually I'm gonna start

617
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:25,000
helping them to develop in US called Shop

618
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:25,840
Like Give Them.

619
00:24:26,230 --> 00:24:28,700
Yeah, on fakemovement as well, fakemovement.com.

620
00:24:29,980 --> 00:24:31,920
But yeah, the marketplace shop like you give

621
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:35,200
them, you have, I think, hundreds of brands

622
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:39,580
already inside from Europe, US, from everywhere.

623
00:24:39,900 --> 00:24:42,820
So yeah, you can find solution easily online.

624
00:24:43,580 --> 00:24:44,760
All right, wonderful.

625
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:47,620
We're gonna go to our next caller, Tiffany

626
00:24:47,620 --> 00:24:49,660
in Los Angeles.

627
00:24:49,780 --> 00:24:51,660
Your question or thought for our fabulous panel.

628
00:24:52,060 --> 00:24:53,580
Where are we when it comes to the

629
00:24:53,580 --> 00:24:54,900
vegan movement in food and fashion?

630
00:24:56,660 --> 00:24:59,180
Thank you, Jane, for taking my call.

631
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:03,060
And Carolyn, it looks like lunchtime and you're

632
00:25:03,060 --> 00:25:04,780
showing these beautiful burgers.

633
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:08,140
And Jonathan, I'm excited to order both of

634
00:25:08,140 --> 00:25:08,680
your books.

635
00:25:08,900 --> 00:25:11,340
And I was wondering how, all right, do

636
00:25:11,340 --> 00:25:14,000
you have a background in fashion or what

637
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:16,200
was your inspiration for this book?

638
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:18,500
Was there an incident or something that happened?

639
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:24,780
Yeah, so all my life I was into

640
00:25:24,780 --> 00:25:25,280
fashion.

641
00:25:25,700 --> 00:25:28,660
Both my grandfather and grandmother were tailor.

642
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:30,120
They had their own store.

643
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:31,780
They even used to sell fur.

644
00:25:32,460 --> 00:25:35,020
They were teaching me how to recognise real

645
00:25:35,020 --> 00:25:36,080
fur from fake fur.

646
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:39,220
They even had fur made of cats, like

647
00:25:39,220 --> 00:25:41,380
crazy, but it was like very long time

648
00:25:41,380 --> 00:25:41,580
ago.

649
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:44,360
And also since I'm a kid, I'm working

650
00:25:44,360 --> 00:25:47,580
with my dad on the street market, selling

651
00:25:47,580 --> 00:25:49,960
bags, selling gloves.

652
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:54,160
So I've always been around this entrepreneur fashion

653
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:55,260
life.

654
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:58,960
And recently, I mean, recently, 10 years ago,

655
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:03,200
when I became vegan, with me, my dad

656
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:05,740
and my brother, we built a brand called

657
00:26:05,740 --> 00:26:06,320
Arsayo.

658
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:09,460
It's a backpack brand and we try to

659
00:26:09,460 --> 00:26:12,980
always make it as sustainable as possible.

660
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:14,880
It was vegan already, but we wanted to

661
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:16,520
be more and more ethical every time.

662
00:26:16,580 --> 00:26:19,360
So we tried new alternatives and I created

663
00:26:19,360 --> 00:26:21,800
the fake movement, which stands for fashion for

664
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:25,300
animal kingdom and environment out of necessity because

665
00:26:25,300 --> 00:26:27,760
I couldn't find places where I could probably

666
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:32,120
showcase the backpack that we created.

667
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:34,620
And yeah, that's how everything started.

668
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,480
I create ethical fashion pop-ups.

669
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:39,340
Then we had a vegan fashion museum.

670
00:26:39,620 --> 00:26:41,460
We had fashion show all over the world

671
00:26:41,460 --> 00:26:43,340
in Tel Aviv, Los Angeles, Paris.

672
00:26:44,140 --> 00:26:46,660
And yeah, that's how I realised that the

673
00:26:46,660 --> 00:26:50,740
biggest gap in the fashion industry was education.

674
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:53,360
And I realised I have to write this

675
00:26:53,360 --> 00:26:53,600
book.

676
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:55,080
I did it out of necessity.

677
00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:57,480
I never see myself as an author.

678
00:26:57,780 --> 00:27:00,280
It was just that we need a book

679
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:00,680
like that.

680
00:27:00,740 --> 00:27:01,940
So that's how I did it.

681
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:04,640
And can you get the, people wanna know

682
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:05,680
where can they get the backpack?

683
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:06,640
Can they get it?

684
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:10,180
It's a cork backpack because I have it

685
00:27:10,180 --> 00:27:11,280
and it's fabulous.

686
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:15,140
Can they get it on savemovement.com, fakemovement

687
00:27:15,140 --> 00:27:15,660
.com?

688
00:27:16,500 --> 00:27:18,540
Yes, you can find it there or directly

689
00:27:18,540 --> 00:27:21,840
on the website, arsayo.com, A-R-S

690
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:22,680
-A-Y-O.

691
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:24,800
And we have different, we have a synthetic,

692
00:27:25,100 --> 00:27:27,300
we have cork, we have apple leather, we

693
00:27:27,300 --> 00:27:28,720
have different fabric.

694
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:31,720
Of course, cork being for me the best

695
00:27:32,360 --> 00:27:33,480
as well as apple leather.

696
00:27:33,980 --> 00:27:36,180
But yeah, we have different style, different fabric,

697
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:37,840
different pricing, so yeah.

698
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:41,580
Yeah, well, I have it again, the cork.

699
00:27:41,780 --> 00:27:43,320
And at first when I got it, I

700
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:45,680
thought, let's see how long this lasts, right?

701
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:48,860
Brainwashing, conditioning, it is the sturdiest.

702
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:52,000
I have thrown it around, it's gotten stomped

703
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:55,480
on and the cork is just, it's immutable.

704
00:27:56,140 --> 00:27:58,300
And it's a beautiful bag, keeps the colour,

705
00:27:58,500 --> 00:27:59,200
keeps the shape.

706
00:27:59,360 --> 00:28:00,720
It's really, really amazing.

707
00:28:01,360 --> 00:28:03,540
I just wanna talk a little bit about

708
00:28:03,540 --> 00:28:05,620
what you said, is that here we are

709
00:28:05,620 --> 00:28:06,760
in the 21st century.

710
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:08,740
You know, we're talking about putting people on

711
00:28:08,740 --> 00:28:09,080
Mars.

712
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:11,460
We're talking about driverless cars.

713
00:28:11,620 --> 00:28:13,640
We're talking about artificial intelligence.

714
00:28:13,860 --> 00:28:16,320
We're talking about robots that are gonna replace

715
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:16,820
humans.

716
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:19,200
And yet somehow we still can't get our

717
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:22,060
head around the idea that, hey, you don't

718
00:28:22,060 --> 00:28:23,640
need to kill a cow to have a

719
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:24,520
frigging purse.

720
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:27,500
And this was New York Fashion Week and

721
00:28:27,500 --> 00:28:30,000
Anna Wintour and all sorts of fashionistas were

722
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:33,420
there as animal activists took over the runway

723
00:28:34,380 --> 00:28:39,340
and they paraded proudly until they were tackled.

724
00:28:39,420 --> 00:28:40,840
You'll see that in a second, but their

725
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:42,660
message is, leather kills.

726
00:28:43,340 --> 00:28:44,900
Coach, leather kills.

727
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:46,720
We invite coach on anytime.

728
00:28:47,100 --> 00:28:48,540
But you know, it doesn't take a brain

729
00:28:48,540 --> 00:28:50,920
surgeon to know that, hey, if you're gonna

730
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:53,120
have a product with leather, an animal died.

731
00:28:53,380 --> 00:28:57,380
And yet it seems like while we embrace

732
00:28:57,380 --> 00:29:01,200
all the modern conveniences, you know, and I'm

733
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:03,420
asking things on chat GPT now, you know,

734
00:29:03,540 --> 00:29:04,460
whip up a recipe.

735
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:05,920
There she is getting tackled.

736
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:07,900
The amazing activist, Jamie Logan.

737
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:08,680
Yep.

738
00:29:09,100 --> 00:29:11,680
But it's somehow all these fashionistas and these

739
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:14,160
people are taking private planes and oh my

740
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:17,200
gosh, using artificial intelligence and embracing robots.

741
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:20,800
They can't get their new guns around the

742
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:22,620
concept that you don't have to kill a

743
00:29:22,620 --> 00:29:27,260
cow or a kangaroo or any of animal

744
00:29:27,260 --> 00:29:30,040
to have a frigging purse or shoes.

745
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:32,860
You know, I don't, you're nodding your head,

746
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:33,100
Carolyn.

747
00:29:33,180 --> 00:29:34,600
I know you're in the food space, but

748
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:38,140
what is this cognitive dissonance that doesn't wanna

749
00:29:38,140 --> 00:29:38,740
go away?

750
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:39,960
Well, it's funny.

751
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:41,860
I was thinking about a conversation I had

752
00:29:41,860 --> 00:29:43,060
with a friend years ago.

753
00:29:43,220 --> 00:29:47,160
And I remember her saying, well, since they

754
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:48,820
have to kill the cow for meat anyway,

755
00:29:49,100 --> 00:29:50,260
they may as well use the leather.

756
00:29:50,420 --> 00:29:51,680
I said, no, no, no, no.

757
00:29:51,980 --> 00:29:54,920
Those are two completely different factories.

758
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:58,460
They have animals just for leather and they

759
00:29:58,460 --> 00:29:59,640
have animals just for meat.

760
00:29:59,780 --> 00:30:01,080
And it blew her mind.

761
00:30:01,380 --> 00:30:04,360
I said, no, it's not like none of

762
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:05,380
the animal goes to waste.

763
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:06,880
That's not how it works.

764
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:08,460
It's totally different.

765
00:30:08,540 --> 00:30:10,620
She's like, oh, and I think that's the

766
00:30:10,620 --> 00:30:10,840
thing.

767
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:14,320
I think people don't realise that it's a

768
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:18,720
completely separate animal, literally, that's being used for

769
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:21,820
fashion versus meat, which shouldn't be used at

770
00:30:21,820 --> 00:30:22,140
all.

771
00:30:22,380 --> 00:30:24,920
But I think people are thinking, well, they're

772
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:26,320
using them for food anyway.

773
00:30:26,460 --> 00:30:27,640
They may as well use their skin.

774
00:30:27,740 --> 00:30:30,220
I'm like, that's totally not how it works.

775
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:31,900
And I think that's what it is.

776
00:30:31,940 --> 00:30:33,700
People just don't connect those dots.

777
00:30:34,220 --> 00:30:37,120
Yeah, I mean, people tell themselves fairy tales,

778
00:30:37,420 --> 00:30:38,640
but for what?

779
00:30:38,860 --> 00:30:39,800
Do they tell themselves?

780
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:43,400
I mean, I'm actually astounded at the rapidity

781
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:48,580
with which the artificial intelligence technology has been

782
00:30:48,580 --> 00:30:49,120
embraced.

783
00:30:49,340 --> 00:30:51,720
I mean, literally people that I think can't

784
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:56,440
even figure out how to programme their television

785
00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:59,180
are working with artificial intelligence.

786
00:30:59,300 --> 00:31:01,520
No problem, no problem.

787
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:04,620
Well, why is it so difficult to figure

788
00:31:04,620 --> 00:31:06,640
out that you can have a beautiful, sustainable

789
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:08,600
purse without killing an animal?

790
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:11,480
And there's the status too.

791
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:12,940
I wanna talk about that in a second,

792
00:31:13,020 --> 00:31:15,920
but we've got, I believe, another caller, Annie,

793
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:17,840
in Sherman Oaks, your question, who thought?

794
00:31:18,020 --> 00:31:19,400
Annie just dropped off, I'll let you know

795
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:19,920
if she calls back.

796
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:21,140
Oh, she dropped off, okay.

797
00:31:21,540 --> 00:31:23,480
Well, I wanna get to this point, and

798
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:24,400
that is status.

799
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:28,340
I was recently going to the Vegan Women's

800
00:31:28,340 --> 00:31:30,680
Summit, and I decided to get a cup

801
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:33,460
of coffee, and I normally don't shop in

802
00:31:33,460 --> 00:31:35,580
fancy stores at all, right?

803
00:31:35,700 --> 00:31:37,240
I don't really shop in stores much at

804
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:37,400
all.

805
00:31:37,860 --> 00:31:40,300
But I went in because I was killing

806
00:31:40,300 --> 00:31:43,880
time, and I saw all these fashionable stores

807
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:46,960
right in West Hollywood, like the hipster Ground

808
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:51,220
Zero, and there's cashmere, and there's leather, and

809
00:31:51,220 --> 00:31:53,920
there's all these things, and I realised they're

810
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:55,940
still status symbols.

811
00:31:56,860 --> 00:31:59,960
Oh my God, how, you know, because vegan

812
00:31:59,960 --> 00:32:02,320
leather, love him or hate him, I know

813
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:07,540
he's extremely controversial, and he's torturing monkeys, according

814
00:32:07,540 --> 00:32:11,280
to a lot of complaints with his Neuralink

815
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:13,600
company, and he's invited, Elon Musk, I would

816
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:15,380
love to talk to you, please come on.

817
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:20,880
But he did make vegan leather fashionable in

818
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:23,640
cars, and I thought that was incredible.

819
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:26,240
I thought that was a huge leap for

820
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:30,880
humanity that suddenly vegan leather was a status

821
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:31,320
symbol.

822
00:32:32,060 --> 00:32:34,680
So far, a cry from when I bought

823
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:36,140
a car and tried to beg people to

824
00:32:36,140 --> 00:32:37,640
put vegan leather in it so it didn't

825
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:41,320
have real leather, and basically I got a

826
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:43,400
car that wasn't very well made as a

827
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:47,560
result, but you know, there seems to be

828
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:48,200
a divergence.

829
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:53,440
In some areas, vegan leather and sustainable materials

830
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,720
are becoming super hip, but yet there's still

831
00:32:56,720 --> 00:33:00,180
this old school kind of, I would say

832
00:33:00,180 --> 00:33:04,640
19th century mentality that equates dead animals with

833
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:05,720
status, Jonathan.

834
00:33:06,340 --> 00:33:09,500
Yeah, I think the number one mistake people

835
00:33:09,500 --> 00:33:11,380
make as well with leather is to see

836
00:33:11,380 --> 00:33:12,280
it as a by-product.

837
00:33:12,820 --> 00:33:14,580
Leather is not a by-product, it's what

838
00:33:14,580 --> 00:33:15,880
we call a co-product.

839
00:33:16,980 --> 00:33:18,460
So when you call it a by-product,

840
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:21,360
you feel like, oh, instead of wasting this,

841
00:33:21,460 --> 00:33:23,980
we should use it and wear it because

842
00:33:23,980 --> 00:33:25,580
it's better for the environment, it's better for

843
00:33:25,580 --> 00:33:27,500
the planet, but it's not this at all.

844
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:31,260
A by-product will be to actually, once

845
00:33:31,260 --> 00:33:33,060
you remove the skin, to put it directly

846
00:33:33,060 --> 00:33:35,380
on you, which is impossible because it's gonna

847
00:33:35,380 --> 00:33:37,580
rot, it's gonna smell, it's gonna be horrible.

848
00:33:37,900 --> 00:33:39,220
So it has to go through a whole

849
00:33:39,220 --> 00:33:39,840
process.

850
00:33:40,500 --> 00:33:42,920
We call it tanning, is to make sure

851
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:44,640
that it doesn't biodegrade anymore.

852
00:33:45,220 --> 00:33:47,420
We use horrible chemicals that are made to

853
00:33:47,420 --> 00:33:49,980
burn the hair, to bleach the colour, to

854
00:33:49,980 --> 00:33:53,840
make it completely flat and so it won't

855
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:54,440
biodegrade.

856
00:33:54,780 --> 00:33:56,320
So this makes it a co-product.

857
00:33:56,740 --> 00:33:59,320
I love to talk about cotton, for example,

858
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:02,540
to give the understanding of the difference between

859
00:34:02,540 --> 00:34:03,820
by-product and co-product.

860
00:34:04,580 --> 00:34:06,900
When you harvest cotton, you are left with

861
00:34:06,900 --> 00:34:07,639
the cotton seeds.

862
00:34:08,020 --> 00:34:09,760
If you use these cotton seeds and you

863
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:11,360
sell it, you can sell it as a

864
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:11,840
by-product.

865
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:14,800
But if you crunch it and you modify

866
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:17,159
it to make cotton seed oil, this becomes

867
00:34:17,159 --> 00:34:19,480
a co-product because there's a whole production

868
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:19,820
behind.

869
00:34:20,219 --> 00:34:21,620
And that's what's happening with leather.

870
00:34:21,940 --> 00:34:24,040
It's a co-product, which means that it's

871
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:25,840
a brand new product on its own.

872
00:34:26,020 --> 00:34:28,360
And it's one, I mean, not one of

873
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:31,940
the most, it's the most horrible product for

874
00:34:31,940 --> 00:34:32,500
the environment.

875
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:37,560
They usually produce it overseas because producing this

876
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:40,080
with chromium and all these chemicals create a

877
00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:41,020
lot of waste water.

878
00:34:41,699 --> 00:34:43,719
And it's very hard to recycle this water,

879
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:46,580
especially with the low you have in Europe

880
00:34:46,580 --> 00:34:47,320
and the US.

881
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:48,659
So they produce overseas.

882
00:34:48,940 --> 00:34:50,600
So then they can just dump this water

883
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:53,159
on the river because there's no low where

884
00:34:53,159 --> 00:34:54,659
they produce it.

885
00:34:54,980 --> 00:34:56,680
And you have kids that are playing in

886
00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:59,980
those river that are fishing, that are depending

887
00:34:59,980 --> 00:35:02,380
on those resources on this water.

888
00:35:02,740 --> 00:35:04,700
And they just throw all these chemicals in

889
00:35:04,700 --> 00:35:05,160
this water.

890
00:35:05,780 --> 00:35:09,100
So people don't realise the impact that the

891
00:35:09,100 --> 00:35:10,240
leather has on their environment.

892
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:12,660
And I think if they do, again, I

893
00:35:12,660 --> 00:35:14,120
go back to this, to the education.

894
00:35:14,580 --> 00:35:16,840
If they knew what is the impact of

895
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:18,680
the leather, I don't think they will want

896
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:19,720
to wear that.

897
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:21,720
They will realise- Yeah, but I remember

898
00:35:21,720 --> 00:35:26,120
talking to this so-called environmentalist, top environmentalist

899
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:27,500
when I was in New York and media.

900
00:35:27,780 --> 00:35:29,760
And I looked down and she had like

901
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:32,120
a Birkin bag or one of those status

902
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:32,700
bags.

903
00:35:32,900 --> 00:35:35,400
And I thought, you know what?

904
00:35:36,420 --> 00:35:38,700
You're playing both sides of the fence here,

905
00:35:38,780 --> 00:35:39,060
lady.

906
00:35:39,380 --> 00:35:42,280
Either you're an environmentalist or you're a status

907
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:45,200
seeking, low self-esteem queen.

908
00:35:46,060 --> 00:35:47,440
You gotta choose one.

909
00:35:47,720 --> 00:35:48,920
You can't be both.

910
00:35:49,180 --> 00:35:50,640
All right, we've got some more callers.

911
00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:54,000
Annie in Sherman Oaks, quick question or thought.

912
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:56,800
Oh, hi, yes.

913
00:35:56,880 --> 00:35:58,220
Thank you for having this so, Jane.

914
00:35:58,520 --> 00:35:59,860
And oh, Jonathan, you're awesome.

915
00:36:00,660 --> 00:36:02,900
And Carolyn, oh my gosh, I'm so excited.

916
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:06,380
The books and what you're doing, amazing, amazing.

917
00:36:06,780 --> 00:36:09,020
The chemicals, can you tell a little more

918
00:36:09,020 --> 00:36:09,520
about it?

919
00:36:09,580 --> 00:36:11,280
That was something that I wanted to address.

920
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:12,920
You read my mind, Jonathan.

921
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:15,320
People don't seem to understand that how much

922
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:17,740
of this chemical is dangerous for even the

923
00:36:17,740 --> 00:36:20,000
people that are, they don't understand that these

924
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:23,220
industries are oppressing humans as well as the

925
00:36:23,220 --> 00:36:24,480
animals and the environment.

926
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:26,880
Everything is going in our soil, water, and

927
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:27,200
air.

928
00:36:27,820 --> 00:36:30,900
And we do protest urban outfitters of the

929
00:36:30,900 --> 00:36:33,600
kangaroos or we organise all this, H&M.

930
00:36:33,720 --> 00:36:36,580
I mean, they're all, it's so prominent, it's

931
00:36:36,580 --> 00:36:37,200
disgusting.

932
00:36:38,180 --> 00:36:39,100
So, you know, how- All right, thank

933
00:36:39,100 --> 00:36:39,320
you.

934
00:36:40,180 --> 00:36:42,240
Okay, we're gonna get you to answer the

935
00:36:42,240 --> 00:36:46,520
question, Jonathan.

936
00:36:48,140 --> 00:36:50,740
Yeah, it's chemicals that go into the water.

937
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:53,860
And Annie's point is that if you're an

938
00:36:53,860 --> 00:36:58,800
environmentalist, if you care about marginalised communities, this

939
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:01,860
chemical-filled water is not going into the

940
00:37:01,860 --> 00:37:03,300
sewers in Beverly Hills.

941
00:37:03,980 --> 00:37:06,860
There's no slaughterhouses in Beverly Hills or on

942
00:37:06,860 --> 00:37:07,560
Park Avenue.

943
00:37:08,240 --> 00:37:09,440
And this is what the other thing I

944
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:13,320
don't get is that it's hurting the very

945
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:15,720
people that a lot of the folks who

946
00:37:15,720 --> 00:37:18,140
use these products purport to wanna help.

947
00:37:19,940 --> 00:37:22,660
Yeah, I actually, in the book, I put

948
00:37:22,660 --> 00:37:26,020
a list of 50 chemicals, the most common

949
00:37:26,020 --> 00:37:28,440
used in the leather industry, but you can

950
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:31,620
have- Basically, when they tan the leather,

951
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:33,200
they do their own recipe.

952
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:37,080
So each tanning factory have their own recipe.

953
00:37:37,460 --> 00:37:39,600
So you can have anywhere between 50 to

954
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:41,640
250 different chemicals.

955
00:37:42,100 --> 00:37:43,680
And those chemicals, of course, are horrible.

956
00:37:44,100 --> 00:37:45,320
The worst of them is chromium.

957
00:37:45,660 --> 00:37:47,340
So some people tell you, but it's okay,

958
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:50,060
they use chromium-3 because chromium-3, it's

959
00:37:50,060 --> 00:37:52,040
actually an oligo element that is good for

960
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:52,520
the humans.

961
00:37:52,940 --> 00:37:54,080
But what they don't tell you is that

962
00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:56,700
once you go through the process and you

963
00:37:56,700 --> 00:37:59,360
get heated, it becomes chromium-6, which is

964
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:00,540
extremely carcinogenic.

965
00:38:01,060 --> 00:38:02,620
In those countries, you can see they have

966
00:38:02,620 --> 00:38:04,540
their hands that is completely bleached.

967
00:38:05,380 --> 00:38:08,340
They have a problem of asthma, of many

968
00:38:08,340 --> 00:38:09,080
different diseases.

969
00:38:09,240 --> 00:38:10,160
They die very young.

970
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:14,300
At 30 years old, they get disease that

971
00:38:14,300 --> 00:38:15,620
make them dead.

972
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:18,580
There's many documentary about this.

973
00:38:18,580 --> 00:38:21,440
And yeah, also for us, when we wear

974
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:24,480
it, there was this other documentary where this

975
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:28,920
guy in the shipping, he's taking all the

976
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:31,620
container to see the level of chromium in,

977
00:38:33,060 --> 00:38:35,320
I mean, chromium and other different chemicals in

978
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:35,780
the container.

979
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:38,720
And he explained that there's not enough people

980
00:38:38,720 --> 00:38:39,440
to check that.

981
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:42,380
So 99% of the container just come

982
00:38:42,380 --> 00:38:42,980
in the country.

983
00:38:43,260 --> 00:38:44,700
They cannot check them.

984
00:38:44,700 --> 00:38:48,700
So you have a lot of chromium everywhere

985
00:38:48,700 --> 00:38:50,180
and you wear that on you.

986
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:53,460
And then this can affect you as well.

987
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:54,740
And it has been proved.

988
00:38:54,820 --> 00:38:55,720
There's many study as well.

989
00:38:55,860 --> 00:38:57,140
I talk about it in the book.

990
00:38:57,600 --> 00:38:57,780
But yeah.

991
00:38:59,180 --> 00:39:01,480
I mean, you're scaring the wits out of

992
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:02,860
me, but I'm not that scared because I'm

993
00:39:02,860 --> 00:39:03,660
not wearing leather.

994
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:05,020
I'm not wearing fur.

995
00:39:05,140 --> 00:39:06,260
I'm not wearing cashmere.

996
00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:07,500
I'm not wearing silk.

997
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:08,720
And guess what?

998
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:10,280
Here I am, okay?

999
00:39:10,380 --> 00:39:12,340
I'm surviving just fine, thank you.

1000
00:39:12,340 --> 00:39:13,780
And actually saving a heck of a lot

1001
00:39:13,780 --> 00:39:14,100
of money.

1002
00:39:14,100 --> 00:39:14,880
That's one thing.

1003
00:39:15,500 --> 00:39:19,340
Being an environmentally conscious consumer means consuming less

1004
00:39:19,340 --> 00:39:21,840
and it saves you money.

1005
00:39:22,220 --> 00:39:24,840
I wanna talk to you about how you

1006
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:29,120
also try to, Carolyn, approach people from the

1007
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:30,740
standpoint of tradition.

1008
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:33,760
Because tradition is one of the biggest excuses

1009
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:40,160
that people use to validate their, I would

1010
00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:41,740
call it sometimes mediaeval choices.

1011
00:39:41,740 --> 00:39:44,120
Let's look at another quick clip of one

1012
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:46,740
of your amazing recipes, now streaming on Unshade

1013
00:39:46,740 --> 00:39:48,420
TV, and we'll get you on the other

1014
00:39:48,420 --> 00:39:48,760
side.

1015
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:53,680
Hey guys, it's me, Carolyn Scott Hamilton, the

1016
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:54,320
Healthy Voyager.

1017
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:56,660
And welcome to another holiday edition of the

1018
00:39:56,660 --> 00:39:57,940
Healthy Voyager's Global Kitchen.

1019
00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:00,560
Today, we're making a vegan shepherd's pie.

1020
00:40:00,720 --> 00:40:02,440
And it's perfect for this time of year

1021
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:04,060
because you can make it ahead of time.

1022
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:05,320
You can put it in the freezer.

1023
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:07,700
It's nice and crispy and golden brown.

1024
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:09,460
The potatoes are a little bit of the

1025
00:40:09,460 --> 00:40:10,120
sauce bubbled up.

1026
00:40:10,180 --> 00:40:10,700
That's all right.

1027
00:40:10,700 --> 00:40:11,920
It just makes it pretty.

1028
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:14,620
So we're gonna serve some up so you

1029
00:40:14,620 --> 00:40:18,960
can see how nice it looks once you've

1030
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:19,900
gotten it out.

1031
00:40:20,020 --> 00:40:20,980
And it's shepherd's pie.

1032
00:40:21,220 --> 00:40:23,780
It's not like lasagna or anything like that.

1033
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:25,700
So it can be a little messy to

1034
00:40:25,700 --> 00:40:28,480
get out, but we will do our best.

1035
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:29,780
But that's kind of the fun part of

1036
00:40:29,780 --> 00:40:30,340
shepherd's pie.

1037
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:31,460
All right.

1038
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:34,500
Wow, that made me hungry.

1039
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:37,000
I don't think there's anything more traditional than

1040
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:37,760
shepherd's pie.

1041
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:40,080
It makes me wanna have an Irish accent.

1042
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:41,900
I am half Irish, so I can do

1043
00:40:41,900 --> 00:40:42,120
that.

1044
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:42,760
All right.

1045
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:47,740
So Carolyn, what's this hang up that people

1046
00:40:47,740 --> 00:40:48,940
have with tradition?

1047
00:40:49,380 --> 00:40:51,160
Actually using it as a cudgel.

1048
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:56,040
I'm often reminding people that the first fast

1049
00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:59,720
food hamburger, the first cheeseburger was invented in

1050
00:40:59,720 --> 00:41:00,320
1920.

1051
00:41:00,660 --> 00:41:01,140
Take it away.

1052
00:41:02,140 --> 00:41:06,600
Yeah, I think we're just programmed and most

1053
00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:10,920
people are programmed to believe that the way

1054
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:12,900
things have always been is as they should

1055
00:41:12,900 --> 00:41:13,160
be.

1056
00:41:13,660 --> 00:41:15,240
But if that were the case, we'd all

1057
00:41:15,240 --> 00:41:16,340
still be living in caves.

1058
00:41:16,820 --> 00:41:20,820
So progress is the thing here, right?

1059
00:41:20,820 --> 00:41:21,720
We wanna move forward.

1060
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:22,440
We wanna learn.

1061
00:41:22,540 --> 00:41:23,220
We wanna grow.

1062
00:41:23,980 --> 00:41:26,540
And tradition is the excuse that people use

1063
00:41:26,540 --> 00:41:27,240
for so many things.

1064
00:41:27,420 --> 00:41:30,180
Being Hispanic, I would get that a lot

1065
00:41:30,180 --> 00:41:32,320
early on in my vegan days.

1066
00:41:32,460 --> 00:41:34,660
Like, oh, well, what do you do being

1067
00:41:34,660 --> 00:41:36,220
vegan with your family?

1068
00:41:36,220 --> 00:41:38,220
I'm like, I'll cook my own stuff or

1069
00:41:38,220 --> 00:41:39,800
I'll cook for them.

1070
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:42,700
And it's grown so much that my family

1071
00:41:42,700 --> 00:41:43,340
is now vegan.

1072
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:45,400
My mom, my dad, a couple of cousins

1073
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:46,240
and their children.

1074
00:41:46,940 --> 00:41:49,760
I actually have another cookbook that just came

1075
00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:49,960
out.

1076
00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:53,560
This one, it's all about Latin American vegan

1077
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:54,000
recipes.

1078
00:41:54,700 --> 00:41:56,260
So it's a bunch of different Latin American

1079
00:41:56,260 --> 00:41:56,840
countries.

1080
00:41:57,600 --> 00:41:58,900
And you know- What's it called?

1081
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:00,720
Put it right in the camera.

1082
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:02,240
Want people to see it so they can

1083
00:42:02,240 --> 00:42:02,820
get it.

1084
00:42:02,820 --> 00:42:04,680
Cause this really interests me.

1085
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:07,520
Latin American, the healthy voyage.

1086
00:42:07,700 --> 00:42:09,080
This is out just now.

1087
00:42:09,220 --> 00:42:10,520
You are very prolific.

1088
00:42:10,940 --> 00:42:12,080
I have to say, it's hard to keep

1089
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:12,720
up with you.

1090
00:42:13,540 --> 00:42:15,800
I was gonna interview you and I'm like

1091
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:19,040
exhausted just coming up with all the incredible

1092
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:20,560
achievements that you have.

1093
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:22,980
All the cookbooks, all the cooking episodes.

1094
00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:25,200
You know, when you agreed to send me

1095
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:27,780
some episodes and I was so thrilled.

1096
00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:29,320
And then I got like 40 of them.

1097
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:30,360
I'm like, wow!

1098
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:32,680
This woman really knows how to cook.

1099
00:42:33,540 --> 00:42:36,500
So yeah, I don't buy the tradition argument.

1100
00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:39,000
I mean, it's absolutely ridiculous.

1101
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:42,520
And even when it comes to, let's say,

1102
00:42:42,720 --> 00:42:45,480
the Latin culture in general, which is so

1103
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:46,400
many different cultures.

1104
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:47,980
And that's one of my things.

1105
00:42:48,060 --> 00:42:49,100
I'm Puerto Rican and Irish.

1106
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:51,260
Puerto Rican culture is so different than the

1107
00:42:51,260 --> 00:42:52,020
Mexican culture.

1108
00:42:52,060 --> 00:42:54,320
That's different from the Cuban culture, the Argentinian

1109
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:55,680
culture, on and on and on.

1110
00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:57,220
Different foods, et cetera.

1111
00:42:57,220 --> 00:43:00,900
But there is a growing vegan movement within

1112
00:43:00,900 --> 00:43:02,280
all of those countries.

1113
00:43:02,460 --> 00:43:05,660
And I've been told Mexico City has something

1114
00:43:05,660 --> 00:43:08,640
like 90 vegan restaurants and it's a hotbed

1115
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:09,300
of veganism.

1116
00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:10,860
Absolutely, yeah.

1117
00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:13,020
I eat so well in Mexico.

1118
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:15,720
Some of the best chefs in the world

1119
00:43:15,720 --> 00:43:18,500
exist in Mexico and vegan or not, they

1120
00:43:18,500 --> 00:43:21,120
know how to cook vegan food and really

1121
00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:24,080
celebrate plants and just make it so beautiful.

1122
00:43:24,300 --> 00:43:26,800
And in Colombia, where I'm from, it's become

1123
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:28,940
quite a big deal, especially in the bigger

1124
00:43:28,940 --> 00:43:32,600
cities like Bogota and like Cartagena, Medellin for

1125
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:33,020
sure.

1126
00:43:34,240 --> 00:43:36,880
Yeah, but all over the world, I've seen

1127
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:39,020
such a huge, huge movement.

1128
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:44,060
So I think as time kind of trudges

1129
00:43:44,060 --> 00:43:47,660
on, we're gonna see the excuse of tradition

1130
00:43:47,660 --> 00:43:52,180
go by the wayside because I've veganized pretty

1131
00:43:52,180 --> 00:43:55,580
much everything that I grew up with, foods

1132
00:43:55,580 --> 00:43:56,580
that I loved.

1133
00:43:57,820 --> 00:44:00,080
And in all the countries that I've been

1134
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:02,600
to, and I've been to 140 countries now,

1135
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:06,580
I have been able to enjoy their traditional

1136
00:44:06,580 --> 00:44:08,720
foods in a vegan way.

1137
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:11,700
So that excuse I think is gonna die

1138
00:44:11,700 --> 00:44:13,680
off fairly quickly, I hope.

1139
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:16,320
All right, we've got still more callers.

1140
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:17,560
This is a hot topic.

1141
00:44:18,240 --> 00:44:20,340
Michael in Los Angeles, your question or thought?

1142
00:44:21,940 --> 00:44:23,000
Oh, hi everyone.

1143
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:24,520
Thanks so much for taking my call.

1144
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:26,660
Yeah, this question is for Carolyn.

1145
00:44:27,220 --> 00:44:30,600
I was wondering, in all your travels, what

1146
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:32,960
do you consider to be the most vegan

1147
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:35,040
-friendly cities in the world?

1148
00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:35,920
Thank you.

1149
00:44:36,540 --> 00:44:39,320
Well, definitely Europe takes the cake.

1150
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:43,100
Anywhere in Germany, like Jane said earlier, Berlin

1151
00:44:43,100 --> 00:44:44,640
is like vegan Mecca.

1152
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:48,000
And all over Germany, they're so progressive when

1153
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:48,700
it comes to vegan.

1154
00:44:48,700 --> 00:44:52,300
A lot of Scandinavian countries, like wow, like

1155
00:44:52,300 --> 00:44:56,180
Stockholm had amazing vegan options and gourmet, beautiful

1156
00:44:56,180 --> 00:44:56,700
foods.

1157
00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:00,300
France is definitely becoming vegan, like Jane said

1158
00:45:00,300 --> 00:45:01,040
earlier as well.

1159
00:45:01,140 --> 00:45:03,680
London, it's very easy.

1160
00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:07,180
And Southeast Asia, and yes, Mexico.

1161
00:45:07,460 --> 00:45:10,660
So all over the world, it's popping up,

1162
00:45:10,740 --> 00:45:13,380
but I think my favourite places to find

1163
00:45:13,380 --> 00:45:18,220
great vegan food are Germany, Mexico, and Scandinavia.

1164
00:45:18,220 --> 00:45:19,300
And Southeast Asia.

1165
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:24,760
Yeah, well, again, Berlin, it blew my mind.

1166
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:30,100
The gourmet, the five-star, the vegan supermarket,

1167
00:45:30,460 --> 00:45:32,080
it was just so vegan.

1168
00:45:32,460 --> 00:45:35,020
It was shocking in a good way.

1169
00:45:35,460 --> 00:45:38,360
One more caller, Michelle in Los Angeles, your

1170
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:39,180
question or thought?

1171
00:45:40,980 --> 00:45:42,120
Hi guys.

1172
00:45:42,240 --> 00:45:44,240
Well, my question is both for Carolyn and

1173
00:45:44,240 --> 00:45:44,700
Jonathan.

1174
00:45:45,230 --> 00:45:49,840
How do we reinforce that vegan food is

1175
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:53,890
delicious and beautiful as well as vegan fashion?

1176
00:45:54,580 --> 00:45:56,620
I talked to Kip Anderson at the Christ

1177
00:45:56,620 --> 00:45:59,490
Thirsty premiere, and he's wearing this gorgeous leather,

1178
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:02,320
non-leather jacket, and he's like, this is

1179
00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:02,720
luxury.

1180
00:46:03,100 --> 00:46:05,300
And I think that's the perception that we

1181
00:46:05,300 --> 00:46:09,460
have to get across that it's compassionate and

1182
00:46:09,460 --> 00:46:11,940
it's luxurious and it's beautiful and the food

1183
00:46:11,940 --> 00:46:12,670
is amazing.

1184
00:46:13,270 --> 00:46:15,210
How do we change people's perceptions?

1185
00:46:17,550 --> 00:46:18,690
Jonathan, you wanna start?

1186
00:46:18,830 --> 00:46:20,970
That's the $24,000 question.

1187
00:46:22,370 --> 00:46:25,290
I think, again, I'm sorry I'm gonna repeat

1188
00:46:25,290 --> 00:46:27,070
myself again, but I think it's all about

1189
00:46:27,070 --> 00:46:27,630
education.

1190
00:46:28,130 --> 00:46:32,950
It's understanding how horrible leather industry, wool industry,

1191
00:46:33,210 --> 00:46:36,210
silk industry, all these industry are horrible and

1192
00:46:36,210 --> 00:46:38,590
how good it is to have vegan alternatives

1193
00:46:38,590 --> 00:46:40,670
for the environment, for the planet, for our

1194
00:46:40,670 --> 00:46:43,110
health, for the humans, for everyone.

1195
00:46:43,510 --> 00:46:46,150
So I will say again, I'm sorry I

1196
00:46:46,150 --> 00:46:49,130
repeat myself, but education is the number one.

1197
00:46:50,370 --> 00:46:53,970
Yeah, well, education, people say education.

1198
00:46:53,970 --> 00:46:56,910
We've got 8.1 billion human beings.

1199
00:46:57,230 --> 00:46:59,850
So the reason I started Unchained TV, which

1200
00:46:59,850 --> 00:47:02,530
is a 501c3 nonprofit, by the way, feel

1201
00:47:02,530 --> 00:47:04,230
free to donate, become a monthly donor.

1202
00:47:04,510 --> 00:47:07,650
We rely on monthly donors to sustain us,

1203
00:47:07,990 --> 00:47:10,750
but it's because we don't have time to

1204
00:47:10,750 --> 00:47:12,470
educate everybody one-on-one.

1205
00:47:12,950 --> 00:47:14,370
We're running out of time.

1206
00:47:15,110 --> 00:47:16,790
There's only nine boundaries.

1207
00:47:17,090 --> 00:47:18,690
And that's not me saying that, that's Sir

1208
00:47:18,690 --> 00:47:21,530
David Attenborough, who has a documentary called Breaking

1209
00:47:21,530 --> 00:47:22,170
Boundaries.

1210
00:47:22,870 --> 00:47:26,230
And there's nine boundaries, once we cross them,

1211
00:47:26,290 --> 00:47:28,630
there's no going back and our planet is

1212
00:47:28,630 --> 00:47:29,710
gonna become unlivable.

1213
00:47:30,070 --> 00:47:32,370
And we were already bursting through six of

1214
00:47:32,370 --> 00:47:32,530
them.

1215
00:47:32,790 --> 00:47:34,470
And one of them is wildlife extinction.

1216
00:47:35,090 --> 00:47:37,790
Again, we've reduced wildlife down to just 4

1217
00:47:37,790 --> 00:47:39,350
% of total mammal biomass.

1218
00:47:39,930 --> 00:47:42,970
And it's because they're killing kangaroos in Australia.

1219
00:47:43,150 --> 00:47:46,390
It's because people leave poison traps out here

1220
00:47:46,390 --> 00:47:48,550
where I live in LA, which I would

1221
00:47:48,550 --> 00:47:49,670
love to see be illegal.

1222
00:47:49,890 --> 00:47:51,750
And then, you know, it just goes right

1223
00:47:51,750 --> 00:47:54,650
up the food chain while we're simultaneously trying

1224
00:47:54,650 --> 00:47:57,630
to save the hawks and the owls and

1225
00:47:57,630 --> 00:47:58,350
all these animals.

1226
00:47:58,350 --> 00:48:02,430
And they're dying because people wanna use poison

1227
00:48:02,930 --> 00:48:04,770
when there are other solutions.

1228
00:48:05,210 --> 00:48:06,810
Okay, I had mice in my apartment.

1229
00:48:06,970 --> 00:48:08,150
I had it sealed.

1230
00:48:08,150 --> 00:48:10,430
I brought people in who sealed the entire

1231
00:48:10,430 --> 00:48:10,910
thing.

1232
00:48:12,310 --> 00:48:13,450
No more mice.

1233
00:48:13,930 --> 00:48:15,810
We didn't have to kill any mice to

1234
00:48:15,810 --> 00:48:16,630
make that happen.

1235
00:48:16,950 --> 00:48:18,730
And don't get me started.

1236
00:48:19,110 --> 00:48:20,470
We've only got a couple of seconds.

1237
00:48:20,890 --> 00:48:23,450
It's your turn, Carolyn, to answer that question.

1238
00:48:23,990 --> 00:48:27,790
I think that the vegan movement has crossed

1239
00:48:27,790 --> 00:48:30,850
the line of being kind of fringe to

1240
00:48:30,850 --> 00:48:31,350
cool.

1241
00:48:31,910 --> 00:48:35,870
Vegan restaurants, vegan fashion, vegan celebrities, I think

1242
00:48:35,870 --> 00:48:38,910
all of this becoming the new school of

1243
00:48:38,910 --> 00:48:41,790
what's cool is what's changing minds.

1244
00:48:42,950 --> 00:48:46,270
Regular restaurants, you know, mainstream restaurants, having vegan

1245
00:48:46,270 --> 00:48:50,290
options, just the insane amount of how much

1246
00:48:50,290 --> 00:48:53,110
I hear vegan, vegan, vegan in every aspect

1247
00:48:53,110 --> 00:48:55,710
of my life, from food to fashion to

1248
00:48:55,710 --> 00:48:56,150
celebrities.

1249
00:48:56,350 --> 00:48:59,050
I think that's what needs to keep happening,

1250
00:48:59,450 --> 00:49:00,490
proving that it's cool.

1251
00:49:00,690 --> 00:49:02,470
And it's not just some fringe hippie thing

1252
00:49:02,470 --> 00:49:03,690
from, you know, 30 years ago.

1253
00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:06,030
Oh, I agree with you entirely.

1254
00:49:06,390 --> 00:49:08,250
And, you know, one of the reasons we're

1255
00:49:08,250 --> 00:49:10,870
doing this today is that The Guardian, which

1256
00:49:10,870 --> 00:49:15,910
is a very, very respectable, journalistic organisation that

1257
00:49:15,910 --> 00:49:17,150
happens to be independent.

1258
00:49:17,550 --> 00:49:19,810
So it's not beholden to its advertisers.

1259
00:49:19,990 --> 00:49:21,870
So it does a lot of articles that

1260
00:49:21,870 --> 00:49:25,670
you don't see in other mainstream media that,

1261
00:49:25,870 --> 00:49:27,450
well, look at their commercials, meat, dairy, and

1262
00:49:27,450 --> 00:49:28,110
pharmaceuticals.

1263
00:49:28,110 --> 00:49:29,150
They're not gonna cover this stuff.

1264
00:49:29,450 --> 00:49:31,610
And The Guardian reported that the meat industry

1265
00:49:31,610 --> 00:49:37,410
has a ginormous like Pentagon slash newsroom style

1266
00:49:37,410 --> 00:49:41,190
facility in Colorado, where they send out negative

1267
00:49:41,190 --> 00:49:43,890
stuff about veganism and they try to make

1268
00:49:43,890 --> 00:49:45,410
it sound unhealthy.

1269
00:49:45,670 --> 00:49:47,450
And they try to, and this is 24

1270
00:49:47,450 --> 00:49:48,630
seven, 365.

1271
00:49:49,730 --> 00:49:51,790
And they also have something called a Masters

1272
00:49:51,790 --> 00:49:54,950
in Beef Advocacy, where they train all these

1273
00:49:54,950 --> 00:49:57,330
social media people to go out and advocate

1274
00:49:57,330 --> 00:49:57,990
for meat.

1275
00:49:58,510 --> 00:50:00,810
That's one of the reasons why you're seeing

1276
00:50:00,810 --> 00:50:05,310
nasty articles popping up where quote unquote mainstream

1277
00:50:05,310 --> 00:50:08,410
writers are attacking veganism because look, I was

1278
00:50:08,410 --> 00:50:10,050
in media for 38 years.

1279
00:50:12,410 --> 00:50:15,070
These things happen in waves, they happen in

1280
00:50:15,070 --> 00:50:16,970
trends and people don't do the kind of

1281
00:50:16,970 --> 00:50:18,150
fact-checking they should.

1282
00:50:18,890 --> 00:50:22,230
For example, they talk about some vegan burgers

1283
00:50:22,810 --> 00:50:23,570
being processed.

1284
00:50:23,790 --> 00:50:26,370
Well, first of all, there's not all processes

1285
00:50:26,370 --> 00:50:31,170
created equal because processed meat is officially cancer

1286
00:50:31,170 --> 00:50:31,630
causing.

1287
00:50:32,030 --> 00:50:35,330
According to the World Health Organisation, processed vegetables

1288
00:50:35,330 --> 00:50:38,690
are not officially cancer causing at all, they're

1289
00:50:38,690 --> 00:50:39,750
in fact good for you.

1290
00:50:40,090 --> 00:50:41,350
So if you took a mango and a

1291
00:50:41,350 --> 00:50:44,190
banana and stuck it in a smoothie machine,

1292
00:50:44,570 --> 00:50:45,530
that would be processed.

1293
00:50:45,750 --> 00:50:47,230
That doesn't mean it's unhealthy for you.

1294
00:50:47,610 --> 00:50:53,490
But they're twisting, they're using terminology to try

1295
00:50:53,490 --> 00:50:55,730
to scare people off because we are growing

1296
00:50:55,730 --> 00:50:56,390
so fast.

1297
00:50:56,390 --> 00:50:59,250
So we only have a couple of minutes.

1298
00:50:59,370 --> 00:51:01,690
I wanna get final thoughts from each of

1299
00:51:01,690 --> 00:51:02,050
you.

1300
00:51:03,150 --> 00:51:05,630
Yes, we've come far, but how do we

1301
00:51:05,630 --> 00:51:08,230
get over the finish line to hit the

1302
00:51:08,230 --> 00:51:08,790
tipping point?

1303
00:51:08,830 --> 00:51:11,070
Because we are running out of time.

1304
00:51:11,210 --> 00:51:16,570
Jonathan, Jonathan.

1305
00:51:17,190 --> 00:51:20,570
Again, I say to Caroline, can you hear

1306
00:51:20,570 --> 00:51:20,770
me?

1307
00:51:21,410 --> 00:51:22,790
Sorry, my reception is a little bad.

1308
00:51:22,810 --> 00:51:23,970
I'm gonna start with Caroline, you broke up

1309
00:51:23,970 --> 00:51:24,350
a little bit.

1310
00:51:24,410 --> 00:51:25,990
Let me start with Caroline, see if your

1311
00:51:25,990 --> 00:51:27,090
signal gets better.

1312
00:51:27,170 --> 00:51:27,690
Go ahead, Caroline.

1313
00:51:28,310 --> 00:51:30,530
I've always been an advocate for leading by

1314
00:51:30,530 --> 00:51:31,050
example.

1315
00:51:31,690 --> 00:51:35,350
Having been vegan for so long, showing that

1316
00:51:35,350 --> 00:51:37,230
I can travel the world, I can have

1317
00:51:37,230 --> 00:51:38,830
fun with my friends and have a social

1318
00:51:38,830 --> 00:51:40,910
life and do all the things that everyone

1319
00:51:40,910 --> 00:51:45,050
else does normally as a vegan, I think

1320
00:51:45,050 --> 00:51:47,870
has been proof positive for now almost three

1321
00:51:47,870 --> 00:51:51,390
decades that people are starting to realise that

1322
00:51:51,390 --> 00:51:54,090
it's not difficult and that you're not gonna

1323
00:51:54,090 --> 00:51:55,970
lose your social life because of it.

1324
00:51:55,970 --> 00:51:58,850
And if we continue to be positive and

1325
00:51:58,850 --> 00:52:01,530
showcase the best of veganism, I think that's

1326
00:52:01,530 --> 00:52:02,910
gonna continue to push it forward.

1327
00:52:03,510 --> 00:52:04,630
Very well said.

1328
00:52:04,770 --> 00:52:05,810
Jonathan, we're back to you.

1329
00:52:06,910 --> 00:52:07,890
Yeah, can you hear me?

1330
00:52:08,150 --> 00:52:08,270
Good.

1331
00:52:08,690 --> 00:52:08,790
Yes.

1332
00:52:09,670 --> 00:52:12,090
Yeah, like I was saying, education, but the

1333
00:52:12,090 --> 00:52:14,490
next step of education is then to educate

1334
00:52:14,490 --> 00:52:16,470
others, to become an activist.

1335
00:52:16,870 --> 00:52:21,070
And activist doesn't mean to scream at people,

1336
00:52:21,290 --> 00:52:24,110
it's just to be active and to talk

1337
00:52:24,110 --> 00:52:26,350
to people, to educate them, to plant seeds,

1338
00:52:26,610 --> 00:52:28,230
to if they already have seeds, to just

1339
00:52:28,230 --> 00:52:30,410
put some water and make sure that this

1340
00:52:30,410 --> 00:52:35,430
grow in people's mind and yeah, help people

1341
00:52:35,430 --> 00:52:38,270
to understand the ramification of their choice.

1342
00:52:39,190 --> 00:52:42,930
Well, I end with this video of the

1343
00:52:42,930 --> 00:52:45,790
New York Fashion Week Coach Runway Show being

1344
00:52:45,790 --> 00:52:50,270
disrupted by advocates who are trying to educate.

1345
00:52:50,890 --> 00:52:51,990
This wasn't violent.

1346
00:52:51,990 --> 00:52:55,610
In fact, they themselves were tackled very roughly

1347
00:52:55,610 --> 00:52:57,350
at the very end, at least the one

1348
00:52:57,350 --> 00:52:58,950
holding the sign, Jamie Logan.

1349
00:52:59,730 --> 00:53:03,730
But this is what you would call nonviolent

1350
00:53:03,730 --> 00:53:09,130
confrontation to let people know, it's like, there

1351
00:53:09,130 --> 00:53:11,110
she gets, oh, look, there she goes, there

1352
00:53:11,110 --> 00:53:12,450
she goes, there she goes, right?

1353
00:53:13,330 --> 00:53:17,630
It's like, if you could just tell people,

1354
00:53:17,810 --> 00:53:21,550
here's the reality, the killing of animals is

1355
00:53:21,550 --> 00:53:22,790
destroying the environment.

1356
00:53:23,250 --> 00:53:25,150
It's terrible for the people who are forced

1357
00:53:25,150 --> 00:53:26,990
to do the killing or the tanning.

1358
00:53:27,510 --> 00:53:29,410
It's terrible for people who have to live

1359
00:53:29,410 --> 00:53:31,890
next to slaughterhouses or factory farms.

1360
00:53:32,350 --> 00:53:35,150
It's also terrible for your health when it

1361
00:53:35,150 --> 00:53:36,790
comes to eating or wearing it.

1362
00:53:37,030 --> 00:53:40,390
It's terrible for the environment because it's a

1363
00:53:40,390 --> 00:53:45,250
leading cause of climate change, the deforestation, the

1364
00:53:45,250 --> 00:53:48,810
wildlife extinction, the habitat destruction, the human world

1365
00:53:48,810 --> 00:53:52,270
hunger, because we're feeding a huge percentage of

1366
00:53:52,270 --> 00:53:54,190
the food that we produce, not to people

1367
00:53:54,190 --> 00:53:56,270
who are starving, but to cows.

1368
00:53:56,730 --> 00:53:59,410
Most people don't know the majority, the vast

1369
00:53:59,410 --> 00:54:01,490
majority of soybeans produced is fed to farmed

1370
00:54:01,490 --> 00:54:01,830
animals.

1371
00:54:02,530 --> 00:54:05,230
So we tell people these facts when they

1372
00:54:05,230 --> 00:54:08,030
don't listen, then you do the protest.

1373
00:54:08,630 --> 00:54:11,050
But I don't have the answer.

1374
00:54:11,210 --> 00:54:13,050
If I had the answer to what is

1375
00:54:13,050 --> 00:54:15,610
going to change people, I would reveal it.

1376
00:54:16,610 --> 00:54:19,650
I think there's many, many, many answers depending

1377
00:54:19,650 --> 00:54:21,190
on who those people are.

1378
00:54:21,750 --> 00:54:24,570
We have to really throw all this against

1379
00:54:24,570 --> 00:54:26,170
the wall and see what sticks.

1380
00:54:26,670 --> 00:54:28,350
Different people are gonna respond to health.

1381
00:54:28,530 --> 00:54:30,690
Different people will respond to the environmental issue.