UnchainedTV: Woman on a Mission: Save the World's Elephants!

0:00 are so excited to have an extraordinary woman with us today. Today we're going to meet a woman on a mission to save elephants. Sangita Iyer, who made the award-winning documentary Gods in Shackles, says we dream of a day when people and elephants can live harmoniously. Too many elephants are getting killed in conflicts with humans. We simply cannot allow them to disappear from the face of this earth. There are less than 40,000 Asian elephants in the world. Around 60% of them, and that means 27,000 elephants or more, wander the jungles of India.

0:46 The problem is this, 80% of the elephants' habitats have been occupied by people. In other words, people and elephants are sharing 80% of the land mass in India. You are looking at some of the video that Sangita Iyer has taken herself as she tries to wake the world up and get the world's help. Sangita, tell us, what is your mission? Thank you so much. It's nice to see you and good to have you. Thank you for having me. My mission is to do everything possible to protect the endangered Asian elephants, particularly in India.

1:26 As you clearly mentioned, 55% to 60 % of the Asian elephant population is in India. I'm doing everything I can to save them. At the same time, 18% of the world's human population is also in India. 18%, can you believe? 1.41 billion people. India is the most densely populated country on the planet. These two dominant species are trying to sustain themselves and exist. Coexistence peacefully is critically important. That's what I'm trying to do through my organisation called Voices for Asian Elephants.

2:08 Now, you hit the world stage big time with your award-winning documentary, Gods in Shackles. This is just one of the many, many headlines that you got. This one from the BBC. This is in 2020, the woman trying to save India's tortured elephants. You really brought to the world's attention that these so-called temple ceremonies, where these animals, these sensitive, intelligent, social beings are shackled and paraded and forced to submit to fireworks and all sorts of...

2:50 You see right here, this is the middle of a festival. There's giant fire. It's absolutely horrifying. It seems like the world did not know about this. They did not know this is the shackle. You can see a man's leg on the left. You can see the injuries to these elephants on the right. The idea that all of this is being done in the name of religion and spirituality, why did you decide that you had to devote your life's work to exposing this horror? Because that is the tragic paradox, is that in India, elephants are worshipped as Lord Ganesh.

3:30 Lord Ganesh is the embodiment of elephants. Lord Ganesh is considered to be the wisest Lord and the one that actually blesses people with prosperity, etc. To make this God happy, they are actually exploiting and abusing God's own creations. That's the tragic paradox that I found. This is true even in the wild. I felt that India is considered to be one of the most ancient spiritual countries in the world. Hinduism, which is what India is grounded in, is actually based on Ahimsa.

4:12 Ahimsa is non-violence. Everything being inflicted upon these supremely intelligent animals, everything is violent. I felt that I needed to make sure that people realise that no God would want God's own creations to be abused. It's not going to make God happy by witnessing God's own creations being treated so horribly, all in the name of culture and religion. But there are a select few elephant owners, so to speak, who actually mint money. They've made it their business, literally, to commercialise these elephants that are considered India's heritage animal and a Schedule 1 animal, which means they deserve the maximum protection, but they are still being captured from the wild and exploited for profit in the name of culture and religion.

5:06 A lot of people are blindsided by it, so I needed to expose that. You did an award-winning documentary. It really got global attention, but you also have a channel on Unchained TV, our non -profit global streaming network. You've covered some of the same issues. I took this off of one of your shows on Unchained TV. Let's watch it. We'll talk about it on the other side. The city of Trishul in the southern Indian state of Kerala is bustling. Tourists from all over the world arrive in droves to greet the dawn of Trishul Puram. It's the annual festival that marks a special date on the Hindu astrological calendar.

5:50 It's the largest gathering of male Asian elephants in the world. So what was used perhaps 80, 50, 100 years back, and that was used as a symbol of royalty, or as a symbol of religious function, and only very wealthy landowners would keep elephants. Now it has come down to the common people who also want to enjoy the elephant. The elephant's role is simple. Stand shackled beneath the scorching sun and display their majestic tusks. In the wild, elephants wander across vast areas for up to 16 hours a day, grazing on a wide variety of vegetation and drinking at least 200 litres, just under 55 gallons of water a day.

6:34 But in these festivals, they are deprived of food, water, and shelter. Even blind elephants are paraded in these festivals. Suparna Ganguly, founder of Wildlife Rescue and Rehabilitation Centre, launched the first ever investigation of captive elephant welfare across India in 2014. It was never in any of India's religious texts, or in any Hindu religious texts, to that extent Christian, Islam, nobody mentions the usage of elephants anywhere. But unfortunately, when it is a very glamorous animal, and in functions and parades, it can look spectacular.

7:17 So you can watch more of that on Unchained TV, our global streaming network, if you haven't downloaded it. You can download it on your phone. You can download it on any television using an Amazon Fire Stick, a Roku device, or an Apple TV device. It's on all Samsung TVs. And you can also watch online, just go to unchainedtv.com. So what have the religious leaders said when you confront them about torturing animals and claiming that this is some kind of spiritual religious experience? So there are a lot of Hindu priests that are speaking out right now. In fact, I did interview a Hindu priest in my film, Gods and Shackles.

8:02 And I want to announce today that I'm willing to give you the entire film that you can actually share. This is incredible. Thank you. Wow. We're doing this on Unchained TV. What a gift. What a gift. The world needs to see this. Go ahead. Yeah, thank you. And you are a gift. You are a gift because you're giving the elephants the opportunity to be screened and to be watched and so to educate people. So anyway, so this priest, he talks about the fact that the elephant owners are exploiting these elephants. It has nothing to do with cultural religion. And when he became the priest of this particular temple, he stopped using this elephant for parading.

8:48 Instead, he had the priests walk around doing exactly the same things that the elephants do. And he said, we can still, you know, embrace our culture and traditions. All right. We've got so many callers lined up. Everybody is interested in this subject. Annie and Sherman Oaks, your question or thought? Annie? Can you hear me? Yes. Yes. Yes, I can. Yes, I can. Go ahead. Thank you so much for this. And Sangita, I cried Gods and Shackles so powerful. What motivated you? How did and how long did it take you?

9:30 How much work did it take you to actually go through and show the reality? Because I know there's a lot of rebellion against it. Go ahead. That's a good question. That's a good question. Your answer, Sangita? Yeah. Well, thank you, first of all, for your kind words. What really inspired me was their suffering, actually. And this is Lakshmi. It is her eye that you just saw. She was blinded. And I actually covered her entire story in this film, Gods and Shackles. And yes, there is a lot of rebellion. And I am also cyber bullied frequently. And there are so many of these temple owners, actually elephant owners, excuse me, who try to suppress my voice.

10:13 But actually, it gets only louder because I don't allow them to suppress my voice, nor do I allow them to hide reality. They distort the truth. And they try to make me appear like a bad person, projecting their own insanity on me. And I'm like, no, no, no. Don't shoot the messenger. Focus on what I am saying and try to use that to bring forth changes. We live in a modernised world. And elephants belong in the wild. This planet does not belong to human beings alone. We share this magnificent web of life with so many other species on the planet.

10:55 We need to make sure that whatever we do, we honour and revere and respect all of these creatures of the earth. And one of the other reasons is, of course, I love elephants. I consider elephants to be my soul animals. And I wanted to do anything and everything I can. And this was the best I could do, which is to produce this film. I want to grab these callers while they're there. Renee in Los Angeles, your question or thought for Sangeeta Iyer. Hi, first of all, thank you so much. Everything that each of us does is so critical.

11:35 And ironically, I just saw an article come up, Jane, I sent it to you. It's entitled, How Israel Became the Global Centre of Veganism. And it's all about the animal rights movement for compassion in Israel. And even in the marches, the Israel Arab and Jewish vegans marched together for animal compassion and animal activism. So you are a small part of an international movement. And every piece matters, everyone that hears your story, and your motivation is going to be inspired and hopefully change their lifestyle.

12:18 Because the way that they look at animals and how we treat them. So I just wanted to say that I respect you tremendously. And I'm sure it's been a long and painful journey, but you are making a difference. Oh, thank you so much. Appreciate it, Renee. And actually, Jane, I mean, we can't do this alone. Jane partners with everybody. She collaborates and she gives so many of us the opportunity to speak on her beautiful Unchained TV and exposes these atrocities. And so you guys can just take what you're listening here or watching and just share, share everywhere.

12:58 We've got the social media and let us create awareness and this movement that you talked about, Renee. Wow, that is so powerful. And I just thank you so much, Renee. And she's a wonderful supporter of animal rights here in Los Angeles. So glad she was able to call in Michael in Los Angeles, your question or thought for Sangeeta Iyer of Voices for Asian Elephant Society. Yes, good morning, everyone. Thank you, Jane, for having the show. And thank you, Sangeeta, for all you're doing. My question is, you know, in India, are there any animal protection laws in place to help these endangered species?

13:38 I just wonder how much support you're getting from the government. Yeah, thank you. That's such an important question. And yes, there are several animal protection laws, wildlife protection laws, forest protection laws. The problem is not about having these laws, but the problem is in implementing these laws. And that's where, you know, it's not being enforced. And so there is a problem with that. And as a result, and there's corruption, you know, corruption is rampant. I don't need to say that a lot of people know that this is the situation in India and in many countries, not just in India.

14:18 Corruption is rampant and it's destroying our planet on all levels in all countries. And it's no different in India. And so to answer your question once again, it's like there are so many laws, but who's enforcing it? And do you have the courage to really enforce it genuinely and authentically rather than just say, oh, I'm enforcing the law and then under the table, get some, you know, some benefit. So that's the challenge everywhere around the world. Wow. And the video that you've taken is so extraordinary. I love the comments, but I also just want to see the video of these animals.

15:00 You are doing very specific work to save these animals who are losing their habitat to the never ending human encroachment. As you mentioned, there's only about 25,000 left in India of these Asian elephants. A lot of them get hit by trains and you have worked very, very ferociously to create technology to help them avoid that. Tell us about that technology. Yes, I am so excited. I'm so happy you asked that question, Jane, because I remember when we were planning to feature this film called Deadly Tracks on your channel, you were like, yeah, we need to give hope.

15:42 And I am here to give hope because we actually partnered with a local conservation organisation and a couple of them actually, and we created this amazing groundbreaking technology called EleSense. And this EleSense technology, it detects elephants around 500 to 750 metres in the surrounding areas. It detects the presence of elephants through laser and thermal detectors. And then it sends out an SMS message to the forest department, the railway department and our team. And then they send a walkie talkie message to the train pilots to slow down.

16:25 And just by doing this, we have averted 637 elephant deaths between January and December 21st of 2023. And now we are getting ready to expand it. And I am so excited to be able to return to India and to be able to expand this project, launch our phase two, and just instal this in Buxa Tiger Reserve, where just recently, towards the end of November 2023, three elephants, including a newborn baby elephant, were killed. And that was just really gut-wrenching. And one pregnant elephant was killed towards the end of August of 2023.

17:08 We gotta stop this. And so we are so excited to be able to launch this in that area and hopefully avert more tragedies. And that's why your donations to vfaes.org, you see it there on your screen, will go directly to raising the funds to buy that technology and put it into place. It's not free. More about that in a second. We've got another caller, Sarah Unhold. Your question or thoughts, Sarah in LA. Hi. My question is, I rode an elephant when I was about four years old at the zoo in Louisville, Kentucky. And I saw recently it was one of the worst zoos ever.

17:52 I think all zoos are prisons where animals go to die. But my question is, what are the actual elephants that they use for people to ride them? And what do you have going on that people could do like today to help educate people that, you know, we didn't know that was wrong? You know what I mean? Good question. Good question. Sangeeta. Yeah, so I've produced this film called Brutal Elephant Rides. It is again on Unchained TV. Just go and watch it. It's only six or seven minutes long. And I explain the scientific reasons behind why people should not ride elephants.

18:34 They use all kinds of elephants, African and Asian elephants. Africans have African elephants have like a convex kind of back. Asian elephants have a concave back and protruding spine. And when people sit on their backs, it really, really hurts their spine. And there's a string that goes underneath their tail. They can't poop. They can't do their stuff. It's just gut-wrenching. Imagine somebody doing that to human beings. I mean, we're not going to tolerate that, would we? We do this for horses as to the horses as well. Horseback riding, elephant back riding. These things should become a thing of the past, honestly, because we consider ourselves to be highly evolved.

19:18 There are so many, you know, articles and research material and videos. And look at this one that you're just watching. Five people, five people and a rider on these elephants. It's disgusting. And I want to say something about my own experience when I went to India 30 years ago. And I was very ignorant at the time. And, you know, to this day, I am ashamed that I didn't know better. I rode an elephant with my mother. I guess you could consider the work I'm doing right now with you a living amends to make up for that. But it brings tears to my eyes because I feel so guilty.

19:58 I didn't know any better. Like most tourists, I was like, there's elephants. I love elephants. Let's ride them without any thought process. Are you working with, and please forgive me, elephant community, you know, shame on me. But that was 30 years ago. I didn't know better. I know better now. And now we can spread the word to other people not to do the same. Don't ride camels either. Don't ride donkeys either, wherever you are. But let's talk about elephants. A lot of these tour package groups, online travel agencies will encourage and build a package that includes an elephant ride. Is there any kind of campaign to get them to stop that?

20:41 So, yeah, thank you. That's a great question. First of all, I want to say to you, there's no need to be ashamed. We all do ignorant things because we are not aware. And your salvation is by doing what you're doing right now. You know, you're healing by actually sort of repenting and whatever, like you're spreading these beautiful messages. So please don't feel ashamed. And nobody should feel ashamed, especially if you did this out of ignorance. But if you did this intentionally, knowing what's going on, then it is definitely shame on you. Okay. But to answer your question with regards to campaigns, yes, in the UK, the Born Free Foundation has been doing a tremendous job with campaigns.

21:30 Pren, which is pro elephant network that I'm a part of, they also have launched several campaigns. It's not just as a package included, even in these temples, they've started including elephants that are tethered behind the temples as packages. And so I have actually launched a high court case in Kerala against a temple that actually owns some 49, 50 elephants, all of them crammed inside like an elephant factory farm. And it's disgusting what's happening there. So, but over the last year, I've been fighting alone.

22:11 And this year, we're going to continue with the fight, Supreme Court case, Supreme Court cases, high court cases, a lot of these kinds of campaigns, you know, to have people sign the petition. And when you see a petition, guys, take a second to sign, it's not going to really cost you anything to take just 30 seconds, 40 seconds. You can go to bfaes.org, you can donate there, you can also sign petitions and get involved. Obviously, Sangeeta cannot do this alone. She has a small team, but it requires donations. I mean, to be able to how much does it cost for each implementation of a device that would prevent a train hitting an elephant or elephant family like that package?

23:02 What does that cost? So it's not just one device, per stretch of eight kilometres, we need 40 devices and 4440 devices of installation, preparation, organisation, and the whole works collaboration with everybody like and even creating the device from the scratch, getting the components, all of that inclusive, it's about $50 ,000. But it's, yeah, it's nothing, right? It's like an eight kilometre stretch, and you have 40 devices. And if it can save 637 elephant, I mean, avert 637 elephant deaths, then is it worth it?

23:43 You know, that's the question we asked, because we are already producing results, amazing results. And so that was a pilot project. And now we are getting ready to launch our second phase. Let's go to questions that are online. There are people watching. We're on all different platforms on our streaming network, which is behind me, as well as Facebook, as well as YouTube, LinkedIn, Twitter, X. Okay, so Bruce wants to know, and this is an important question. Can you respond to Britain's law, Low Welfare Activities Abroad Act, the UK does have funds designated to help with elephant welfare in the range country, specifically India?

24:30 Yeah, that's a really brilliant question. Speaking of which, I was invited to speak at the UK Parliament in June of 2023. And I'm closely working with a member of the Parliament called Henry Smith. He is he's the one that actually pushed this law that you're talking about forward. And he's done an amazing job campaigning. He's our caution. It's escaping me. He is one of our patrons. And he has been incredibly supportive. So yes, we are working with them. The problem is every government is afraid of, you know, ruffling feathers with the with other countries, and they're trying to be cautious and and, you know, there's always this backlash of, oh, you being, you know, the the kind of people who dominated our country, why are you coming back and telling us what to do?

25:29 There's all these, you know, reverse racism happening, and they use everything possible to really not address the issue. That's the whole problem. Like, if we just kind of peel off all these nasty layers, and just get to the bottom of it, the problem is we are talking about protecting elephants. We're not talking about racism. We're not talking about, oh, colonialism, that you guys dominated our country, and now you're coming back to tell us what to do. No, we are experiencing these things. And of course, you know, as, as a, you know, partner nation, we are providing you with certain amounts to do certain things.

26:12 What are you doing? You know, and so they do have the right to ask, but everybody is kind of kind of walking on eggshells, you know, so that's, that's the whole issue. I understand what you're saying, Bruce. Thanks for that question. Wow, yeah, the elephants don't know. I always say here in the United States, they don't know if you're Democrat, Republican, liberal or conservative. If you are being tortured, you just want to stop being tortured. So this is really a fascinating conversation. And I'm sorry to say, but similar issues are happening with different species all over the world. Just last week, on this very show, we were talking about the war against kangaroos in Australia, and how kangaroos are not shoes, and how the Australian government sides with the people killing the kangaroos.

27:07 And that's why there is now an Animal Justice Party in Australia to fight for the kangaroos. Because as the member of parliament we had on Emma Hearst said, even the Environmental Party is in favour of wiping out these kangaroos. And they claim their pests and they claim they're rising in numbers when the research shows they're dramatically dropping in numbers. And if we lose all this wildlife, we're going to go too. And we're at the point now where we have reduced mammal wildlife biomass to only 4 % of total mammal biomass, where we've increased the biomass of livestock, meaning animals raised to be killed for food, to 62%.

27:55 So we're really barreling toward mass extinction. So it's just insane to me that people don't see this for what it is, and they just buy this, oh, they're pests, or it's religious, or there's no excuse for animal abuse. Yeah, I just want to say one thing very quickly. The National Academy of Sciences has produced a research which suggests that humans make up only 0.02% of the earth's biomass. And yet our species has managed to decimate 83% of the wildlife.

28:37 Imagine 83% of the wildlife we have decimated. Every single day, every 24 hours, 150 to 200 species of birds, mammals, reptiles are going extinct because of our activities. So at some point, we need to take action. And as Jane so beautifully said, when these species become extinct, we are actually going to collapse along with this magnificent web of life. It's so scary. We're going to take a short break here on Voice America Radio, but we're staying alive on the Unchained TV network. We're staying live on all of our socials.

29:18 We'll be back in a second. Thank you so much for that. Always love that music. And I always take this opportunity to tell folks about our streaming network. You can download this streaming network, and it's absolutely free. You can download it on your phone. You can download it on your TV. It's on all Samsung TVs. You can also get it via Amazon Fire Stick, your Roku device, your Apple TV device, all those little devices. You just put an Unchained TV one word, and it pops right up. And people actually don't believe this. They say, well, what's your angle? Well, there is no angle except trying to save the planet, because it doesn't matter how much money you have.

29:58 If there's no planet, it doesn't matter. Okay, so we are free. We give away the content for free just to wake people up because the mainstream media is not covering the story. Yes, brilliant manoeuvres by people like Sajita Iyer to do an entire documentary could result in an article. So you had an article in the BBC about saving elephants from torture in temples. But you had to spend years, risk your life, and spend pretty much all your money to get that done to get one article in the BBC and other articles.

30:44 But the point is that it shouldn't require heroic, extraordinary efforts, Herculean efforts to get these issues that are so important covered by the mainstream. And when we come back, I want to find out if Indian media is telling your story, because this is a story really about India. And these 25,000 elephants that still exist in India, it's going to require a group effort. You're doing everything you can to save India's elephants. But it's going to require the government. It's going to require corporations. It's going to require donors from around the world for you to achieve your vision.

31:28 Just saving them from the train tracks is $50,000 for one short period of train tracks. So we're going to come back right now to our broadcast. We thank Voice of America for giving us this chance to speak. You are listening to Unchained TV. To reach the show today, call in to 1-866-472-5788. That's 1-866-472-5788. You may also send an email in to jane at unchainedtv.com. Now back to the show. We are talking to Sangeeta Iyer.

32:08 She took this video. She has devoted her life to saving India's elephants. They are in trouble, people. They need our help in order to survive. She has documented some of the biggest problems. The fact is India is one of the world's most populous nations, and more and more people are encroaching on the elephant's habitat. There's also the trains, and she has unveiled a plan that is already saving elephants' lives to put high-tech frequencies where the train operators know there's an elephant and can avoid killing them. It has already saved a lot of lives.

32:49 She's also got a campaign against elephant riding, and perhaps most notably with her film Gods and Shackles, which won so many awards, she is fighting the abduction and breaking of these animals for use in temple ceremonies. Why you? Sangeeta, tell us what your story is and why you decided to devote your life to this cause. Before I do that, I just wanted to quickly say that the footage that you saw, yes, I filmed it on my own, but I could not have done it without the support of National Geographic Society. They believed in my mission, and I produced this 26-part short docu-series of which nine of them are streaming on NatGeo, multiple NatGeo channels, and the rest, and including the ones on NatGeo, are streaming on Unchained TV as well.

33:42 So my journey began when I was a three-year-old child. My grandparents used to take me to this temple. I was born and raised in the southern Indian state of Kerala, and my grandmother, actually, she would just take me to the temple and just leave me at the feet of a bull elephant, and the two of us would hang out, and this bull would take care of me like I was his own child. He would just hold me, and I mean, I had no fear at all. It's almost like I was looking forward to it while my grandparents went into the altar and prayed and worshipped. I just hung out with the So the love, my love for elephants goes really, really deep, and then one day when I became a teenager, my grandma actually told me a story, and she said that, Sangeeta, do you know when you were four or five years old, you once asked me this question, how come that chain has a shackle, and how come I don't have anything like that on my legs?

34:40 So my smart grandma, she went out and bought like anklets, and she wore me the anklets, and she said, look, now you have it too, and I said, no, no, but their anklets are tied together. They can't even move their legs, but I can walk freely, and my grandma said I became totally speechless. So now when I look back at that story, which is actually documented in my book, Gods and Shackles, I think that my destiny had been carved out when I was, you know, three or four years old, because I was paying deep attention, and I started asking profound questions to my grandma and my grandpa, and then, of course, life took over.

35:22 I moved to Mumbai with my parents. Of course, we still had elephants there. You know, in Mumbai, there are some places where there are elephants, and every time I saw an elephant, my heart would skip a beat. It's almost like this is my love, the love of my life, and then, of course, I moved to Canada, and I've been living here for 35 years, so I mean a lot happened in between, but about 12 years ago, I returned to Kerala where I was born, and one of my friends said I want to take you to the temples there so you can see what's happening with the elephants, because he knew that I love elephants, and I said, okay, I'll bring a camera, and I brought my camera, and I started filming as a videographer, and I was utterly devastated.

36:11 All this footage that you're seeing, I gathered this with my mini camera, hidden camera, and I shared it, and I used it to produce my short films, and then, of course, I hired another camera person to film some of the things that you saw in Gods and Shackles, but the images that you're seeing now, those were filmed for the 26-part short docu-series, The Wild Elephants, and so began my journey in 2012, 2013, and I gathered approximately 400 hours of footage and then produced this film, Gods and Shackles. Little did I know that it would garner the attention of the United Nations General Assembly, where it was screened and nominated for the World Wildlife Day.

36:57 It was just really touching, and it won approximately 12 International Film Festival Awards, even the most prestigious Indian Film Festival Award, and I was so humbled to receive an award from the President of India for this documentary, so all these things, I mean, it's not, I'm not bragging about all the things. You have to say, you know, you have to say what you've accomplished, so people can understand and know why they should support you. Oh, thank you, and I say this because I didn't produce the film to win anything. I produced the film just so people get to see the suffering of the elephants, and they, you know, they try to help them, they change their habits, they change their mindsets, and thinking it is happening, and hey, I'm going to tell you something else.

37:50 Okay, so after my film had been launched, and over the last, say, five, six years, people have started getting a feel that, oh my God, this is not right, this is not right. Guess what? They've started launching robotic elephants in Kerala, and many temples, many temples are now using, and I am so proud to share with you, this is the news that I'm breaking here, that our organisation, Voices for Asian Elephants, is going to be launching a robotic elephant. I'm so excited. I can't tell you when, where, and how, but very soon, because I don't want the saboteurs to come and sabotage our efforts, so I'm excited, so excited that one step at a time, we're really making changes, and then in June 2023, remember you talked about people occupying the space, Jane, what we did was we bought a four-acre plot of land in Kerala, and we are rewilding this land, so what, I mean, you may think, oh, it's just four acres, but here's the thing, you have a forest patch on one side, and then on the other side, and in the middle, you have tea plantations, you have, you know, rubber plantations, so what we did was we bought that four-acre space in between these two forest patches, cleared up the whole thing, and connected, so we have created a corridor, and 340 plus elephants can now wander that space freely and happily without any

39:21 concerns, because we have created the safe place, safe space, there is no, there are no electrical fencing, there are no wells, I'm returning to India to see all of this, and again, I'm not saying when exactly, but very soon, and I'm just so excited that we're going to continue to do this work, and make sure that elephant, we protect elephants in every which way, but again, like Jane said, all of these projects require funding, so anything you can do to support, you'll be part of our wonderful elephant-saving mission, so thank you so much, Jane, this is awesome. Wow, this is so exciting, you've heard it here, breaking news, this is the first time this has come out, that robotic elephants are going to be used in India in place of actual elephants, and you know, when one's a success, everybody's going to want to follow, so are you saying, this is fascinating, I think this is big, and you know, we could always appeal to the idea that so much technology is coming out of India right now, you know, in other words, not sell it even on an animal rights basis, but sell it on, this is the future, this is technology, don't you want to be the leader in a technological revolution, and so that's another way to get like the government on board, just even leave animals out of it, so is this for temples?

40:47 Yeah, this is for a temple, this is for a temple in the bordering state, so there's this little, I can't discuss more details, because I know, leave it, oh, we've got a caller actually, is Jose still on hold, I'm sorry, he's been waiting a while, Jose, sorry to keep you waiting, your question or thought. No, it's totally fine, no, no, it's very fascinating hearing about the electronic elephants, I think that's a brilliant idea, it'll still bring tourists in, and but you know, obviously there'll be no animals involved, I just wanted to say thank you for defending the elephants, I think they're beautiful creatures, I just had a quick question, why do you believe the people of India ignore the non-violent religious principle of Himsa?

41:35 Thank you. Whoa, what a great question, thank you, Jose, sorry, once more, what was the question? Why do the people of India ignore the spiritual principle, I don't know much about this religion, or any religion, so I don't want to say the wrong religion, but the principle of a Himsa is a religious principle, and that's non-violence, and yet violence is being ignored. Yeah, yeah, I got it, okay, sorry, that I missed that word ignored, okay, so I, you know, that's a good question, I don't have a straightforward answer, if I said I did, then I would be lying, but what I think is going on, is that the elephant mafias, as I call them, the elephant owners, they are brainwashing, I mean, we see brainwashing happening in the United States right now, I mean, and in different parts of the world, everywhere, so there are these memes that they put out, saying, oh, this is part of our culture, this is part of our traditions, we got to do this, and so there are so many gullible people who buy into that, and these people, they don't see, they don't go behind the scenes to investigate the way I did, and even if somebody like me said, you know, that these things are happening, they would feel sad, you know, when the movie was being screened across India, so many, in the thousands, in the droves, people showed up in theatres, and to talk

43:06 to me, to touch me, and all these kinds of things, I'm like, let's just, I'm not, I'm just a messenger, the message here is that we actually live up to our, you know, whatever, ahimsa, which is what India is grounded in, ahimsa is not a religious principle, but it is something that India is grounded in, and it was actually launched by Mahatma Gandhi, and you know, he said, the greatness of a nation and its moral progress is determined by the way the elephant, I mean, the animals are treated, of course, I said elephants are treated, but yeah, that's, that's, that's, that's what it is, and so when these people are brainwashed, they just don't know what to do, and you create awareness, you're empowering them, I've launched my second NatGeo project, where we are actually talking to school teachers to start implementing ecological principles in their curriculum, and this is something that I'm going to be launching, it's going to be completed next year, so we're starting now from scratch, so I'm doing, on the outside, these films, etc., we are launching, and then we are doing the projects, and then we are going into schools, and then we're helping teachers create curriculum units, I mean, it's all, like, we're leaving no stone unturned, and ultimately, I just hope that it resonates with people, and they, and they are speaking out, like I said, and a lot of temples are now embracing and, you know, using robotic elephants, and we are

44:36 going to be launching one, so it takes time, these practises have been instilled in their minds over the centuries, so it's going to take at least a few years for us to make them unlearn these things, and then learn the new things, right, so it's a process. So are you going to be doing a video, a short documentary on the robotic elephants? Yes. Because that, I think, would be a really good way to, you know, popularise it, it could be something that makes more money. I hate to say it, but it always comes down to follow the money, and if you can make more money showing robotic elephants than you can with that, with real elephants, then people will jump on board with it, and so maybe you can partner with some, you know, India is so high-tech now, there are tech billionaires who are Indian, who might want to partner with you on a for-profit basis for that aspect of it.

45:39 It reminds me of the circuses, you know, when the circuses were attacked for using animals, they said, well, you know, you're putting us out of business. No, what happened was Cirque du Soleil came around, well, first of all, PETA and a lot of incredible organisations protested for years, so they attended many of those protests, but at the same time Cirque du Soleil was showing more spectacular performances with people who have a right to say, yes, I want to do this, or no, I don't want to do this, and they were becoming more interesting than the elephant and the animal-based circuses, so the combination of the protests and the innovation of Cirque du Soleil really put Ringling Brothers, Barnum & Bailey out of business.

46:27 Now they claim they're coming back without animals, but it's a very similar kind of situation of what you're talking about with the elephants. Absolutely, and you hit the nail right on because I think that, you know, with India launching all kinds of scientific mechanisms into, they've entered the solar system, the lunar system, and they've got all these robots everywhere, I'm sure that they could take pride in, you know, implementing technologies, and these robotic elephants are created by Indian technologists and Indian artists, and this EleSense device that I talked to you about, it is actually developed by the local technical people who understand the local terrain and who are also conservationists, so it's a combination of, we are actually partnering with a combination of different kinds of people, conservationists, technologists, and like you said, if, you know, we would love for like a billionaire tech person to join us and support our efforts, and even companies, it takes time, this is the first time we are launching, and so once we have this thing and once we produce a short film or film or whatever we choose to do, it will get some mileage, I think, and people will, you know, see this and say, hey, not only is it that it's not good, it's, I mean, that animals are protected, but also it is safer for humans,

47:59 because when elephants are paraded in festivals, they run amok, they're stampede, and so many hundreds of people get killed every single year. Wow, well, that's another thing, so we only have a little bit of time, I have a couple of questions, you said that you got an award from the President of India, so what I don't understand is how is the President of India seeing, maybe it was the previous President, I don't know, a President of India, seeing this film, Gods and Shackles, and being so moved by it that you get an award, but at the same time, they're not responding politically to the answer, the solution, which is to crack down on these temples abusing elephants.

48:45 Yeah, so it was a previous President, and I hope to meet the new President, I mean, I really don't have an answer for that either, but that's a really good question, and the sad reality is that because of the tremendous increase in human population, they're more focused on development, and actually reckless development, and because humans are their vote banks, animals cannot vote, at the end of the day, that is what it boils down to, politics plays a toxic role everywhere around the world, it's really toxic, and it's spewing poison everywhere, and you know, disinformation, misinformation, as we all know is happening right now, and one of the things is that some people, they want to do the right thing, but they just don't have the courage, they just don't have the courage to do or say things, because they don't want to offend others, or they don't want to lose their position, you know, so again, it's just a matter of...

49:56 You've gotten cyber bullied for standing up for the elephants, but it didn't stop you, I have a suggestion, get a Bollywood star to partner with the mechanical bull, and do a big media event unveiling the mechanical bull with celebrity, we live in a celebrity culture, and I don't care whether you're talking about India or Hollywood, celebrities bring out the media, and I think if you, unfortunately, I wish it could be from the perspective of be nice to animals, be kind to animals, but if you do it from a technology perspective, and you do it from a celebrity perspective, and kind of bury that other message a little bit, that really gets more mainstream coverage, do you have any Bollywood celebrities that you can reach out to?

50:48 I've tried, we keep trying, and there's one Bollywood celebrity, Abraham, John Abraham, who is actually an animal lover, he's actually a top-notch Bollywood star, and I mean, he lives in Mumbai, and the launch is taking place in the Southern Indian region, and at the end of the day, like whether he, you know, he has the time, because he's got shoot schedules, and all these things, right, so it's one of those things where, you know, they need to prioritise, they need to feel that this is really important, and they need to prioritise, it's not a lack of trying, but at some point it'll work, we are just waiting to sort of amp up our profile a little bit more, so celebrities will come and join us, and there are Bollywood celebrities who are working with PETA India, so that's really exciting, and I'm happy for that, and I'm happy for them, so yeah, it'll take some time, and we will make that happen, even if we don't have them at this time, maybe sometime in the future, because we're not going to stop launching robotic elephants, you know, so we're going to continue to do that a little bit, a few at a time.

52:03 Yeah, maybe you can partner with PETA on this, I mean, it sounds like it's right up their alley, I know they have a robotic animal that they have at the animal rights conferences, I think it's a cow, and it's super, super fascinating, it's always a big hit, it's one of the things that everybody likes to see, and so I can't believe all the things you are doing, and how are you getting this done, in other words, you have just listed so many projects, each one would be enough for one organisation, how do you get, how are you getting this done, how are you funding it? So, I have a really good team of board of directors, and of course, all of us are volunteers, and they, I have a good grant writer, our secretary is amazing, we have a few volunteers who are actually doing some fundraising, but obviously, it's not nearly enough, we are getting some funding just recently from, you know, top foundations, but we would love for people to start doing their own fundraisers, like you can log on, you can, you know, go to GoGiving, or whatever, like, I don't know what it's called, GoFundMe, or, you know, Global Giving, or whatever, you can launch your own campaign under our, and you can launch it under Facebook, you can do Facebook fundraisers, and go to our organisation, and choose our organisation to support us, so, yes, funding

53:34 is critically important, and it is something that we struggle for, but given that we are such, we are so focused on saving lives at the moment, we just sometimes feel that once we have all these results, more and more foundations will start supporting us, and just last year, like I said, you know, we had only one foundation the previous year, but last year, we had another foundation who came on board, and we hope to continue to follow that path, and show them, you know, scientific results that actually will inspire them to support our cause, and all of the people that have joined here today, like, anything you can do to support would be really appreciated.

54:15 Wow, well, I want to say you are just such an inspiration, and, you know, you told us the problem, but you haven't been stuck in the problem, you are providing solutions, and that's what I really love, because if you just document the problem, people get depressed, and they feel overwhelmed, and they are like, wow, but you are saying, hey, we can stop elephants in India getting hit by trains, we can create wildlife corridors with just a few acres, buying a few acres here and there, that connect elephants from one wild area to another, we can get robotic elephants, which was breaking news that we broke here on Unchained TV, to replace these tortured temple elephants, we can do campaigns to stop people from getting on elephants for rides when they are tourists, and you have just so much, and then there's all the videos you are doing, so I urge everybody, please support this organisation, one of the top organisations anywhere in the world, and India is, again, one of the most populous nations, and so it's so important, it will have such an impact, so donate at vfaes.org, that stands for Voices for Asian Elephant Society, you can go there, you can learn all about it, let's be part of the solution, and thank you so much, Sangeeta, for being on, we are huge fans, and everybody is saying, get her to come

55:46 back soon, more segments, please, she's a mover and shaker. Well, thank you, I mean, you are a great inspiration as well, I mean, we do this collectively, you know, you have been a tremendous voice for all of these animals, and thank you so much for all that you do, for the opportunities you provide, and we'll continue to work together, I can't do this alone, but thank you for your kind words, thanks so much. We will see you next time, Sangeeta,