Why Music Icon Moby Is Praising Chicken Rescue Defendant Zoe Rosenberg

0:03 You are watching a moment in history. The defense case has begun in the trial of Zoe Rosenberg, what's being called the Chicken Rescue Trial, and it's going to be really historic as Zoe says it was worth it all to rescue these four innocent beings that she rescued from a slaughter truck way back in 2023. This is the moment that everybody's been waiting for since June 2023. You're seeing her commit the alleged crime for which she is charged, rescuing four chickens from a slaughter truck in Sonoma County, California.

0:50 She could do five years in prison and we are going to hear from a very special guest in just a moment who will bring us an entirely new perspective in this case. But first, let's go straight out to the courthouse where our reporter Matthew Zirbel is standing by as supporters of Zoe Rosenberg gather to enter the courtroom in just a couple of minutes. So without further ado, we are going to go straight out to Matthew Zirbel. Matthew, just give us a sense of what's happening there, the intensity, the emotion.

1:32 Yeah Jane, well we've got a lot of people gathered and this is still early. We're expecting I think a good number of people more to gather as we get a little bit closer to the start of court which is in about a half an hour now. So we're all very excited to hear Carla and Rocky's testimony today. Carla, especially being able to testify as an expert witness, will be able to say just a little bit unfortunately, but a fair bit of what she was experiencing, what her conclusions were about the chickens that she rescued. And so the trial is about to really shift from what happened to why it all happened.

2:12 And there's a picture of Carla. She was the one who took in the chickens after Zoe Rosenberg rescued them. Can you flesh that out a little bit? Yeah, unfortunately I don't know the full timeline of events afterwards. So I'll be learning in court along with the jury, but I believe so. I believe she took in the chickens, did the initial caregiving, sent her report over to Dr. Rosenberg. Thank you so much. We'll be back to you in a second. Now our very special guest. This is Tracy Glover and she runs a Sweet Peeps Chicken Sanctuary in Alabama.

2:54 Tracy, who are you with? You've been following this case. What are your thoughts and feelings about it? Hi, yeah, thanks so much for having me. This is Jasmine and Jasmine is the same kind of chicken that Zoe rescued, a Cornish cross. She also was rescued from a factory farm about six years ago. And when I watch the footage of the rescue, all I can think is about my chickens. So I currently have 24 right now and every single one of them, I mean, they're sentient beings.

3:36 So, you know, to see them crammed into that crate, I just can't imagine that they're not having like wings broken or bones broken. I mean, they're living beings. They're not things. And it just, I can't even quite put into words how much it hurts my heart to think about somebody like Jasmine being treated like that. Jasmine and every other chicken here is an individual. They are intelligent, they are sensitive, they have emotions. They're not different in any relevant way from our dogs and our cats. I also have dogs and cats and, you know, they're all individuals.

4:19 But the bond I have with the chickens is the same. And I just, you know, if we wouldn't do it to dogs and cats, then I don't, you know, we shouldn't be doing it to chickens. So many people have talked about this case as really highlighting a cultural divide. When the officer in the prosecution's case testified, he referred to the chickens as products and said, I wouldn't interact with these products because of contamination risk. What is your reaction to that? Essentially, I mean, let's face it, to give him a little leeway, everybody who buys chickens in the store when they're dead refers to them as products essentially.

5:08 Right. I mean, it's just such a fiction. It's such a, it's so counter to reality. Um, you know, I mean, again, like, yeah, when people buy animal products in the store and they are already, you know, they've already been slaughtered and cut up and they don't resemble the living being that they were. But like, especially you're talking about these animals at the slaughterhouse, they're obviously not things, they're living beings. Like, I mean, I think it, though, it reflects so, um, accurately the way that they're treated.

5:48 Like if they were things, it would be okay to treat them like in the industry does. But, um, it's just such a lie. It's, it's such a, I mean, I think it's, it's like the lie that we have to tell in order to be able to do to them what we do. But, you know, you, you just, it's just not reality. Um, it's like we can, you know, when you see the animals themselves and especially, I mean, I wish everybody had a chance to get to know them as individuals. Um, because it's, it just puts the lie to that whole, um, story that we've been told, you know, I think our whole lives in this society that chickens and the other animals that we eat are, um, fundamentally somehow different from other living beings like dogs and cats.

6:36 Um, and, uh, I mean, I don't know, just to hear them talk about his products is it's, it's just, it's just insanity. It's like, it's, it's, it's, it's insane. It's so disconnected from the reality. Like this is obviously not a product. Jasmine is not a product. Jasmine is a living being, um, who feels pain and, and on the other side, like feels joy. Like, you know, the animals at sanctuary, the animals here, they're such a joyful, happy, sweet, little people. They feel safe here. And that's the other thing is like, just thinking about, you know, my, my whole goal, my whole mission here is to keep these animals safe and to make them feel safe.

7:16 Um, and to see all those animals in the video, um, uh, with the you just know that those animals are terrified and they're babies. Um, you know, I mean, I see here all the time, if there's, you know, a Hawk or something and one of the chickens will spot the Hawk and, you know, you can see the fear on their faces and they run for cover or, you know, if, if a strange person even comes onto the property, they don't know if they can trust them or not. And you could just see it in their faces. They look to me like, is this person okay? Is this situation okay? Um, and I mean, again, these are babies or, you know, what, six, maybe eight weeks old. They're just these innocent, fragile, I mean, fragile and to cram them in there like that.

8:02 Um, I mean, if they, again, if they were products, if they were inanimate objects, that would be fine, but they're not, they're living beings. Um, and they're trying, you know, I can't even imagine the trauma of that baby right there, the fear, um, just, just the misery of, of their whole existence. And every chicken that was shoved back there, they're dead, right? Right. Right. 4,000 chickens, approximately according to the defense in every truck. And one of the reasons I just want to state why this is an historic trial is that it really goes to the heart of animal agriculture companies aside, chickens are the most killed by far.

8:44 This is figures from 2022, more than 75 billion chickens. If you were to remove chickens from the food chain, the number of animals kill would drop by 95% approximately. Now, let me say this, uh, Purdue is invited on any time. They say they have high animal welfare standards, no cages or crates. Well, okay. But obviously that's not true during transportation because they were transported in crates in the truck. Um, so we invite them on any time to discuss that. And, um, also they have an entire website devoted to their record on animal welfare, corporate .purduefarms.com forward slash responsibility forward slash animal care.

9:31 They say they're a leader in animal welfare, dedicated to the highest standards of animal care and give their bird space to roam to the outdoors. And basically say DXC is an extremist group with the ultimate goal of ending animal agriculture. So before we move on and go back to court, what is your reaction? And again, we invite them on any time and, and that those trucks are industry standards. They're not unique to this company or any company, but right. Just in the transportation, what would you say? Yeah. I mean, like one thing too, that in, um, in that list of, you know, humane, uh, conditions, um, and it says the ability to express their natural behaviors.

10:17 I don't even know how they could make that claim. Um, I mean, there's obviously nothing natural about that truck, but also, you know, I don't know where they're coming from. Um, but for sure in that moment, they're still alive. And, um, that's just, uh, uh, I mean, I don't know how a living being, like how you could think that they wouldn't be injured, um, treating them like that. Um, yeah. I mean, I just think it's, it's, uh, it's a lot of propaganda on that. I'm, you know, it seems to me, this is a crate. Yeah. That's a crate.

10:57 And this is not natural. There's nothing natural about being packed in like, like this. Um, uh, it's just, um, yeah, I mean, it's, it's got to be, I'm sure that there are, if there, if there are 4 ,000 birds on that truck and Zoe rescued four, I mean, I bet, I can't imagine how many more had have injuries or other, um, you know, health issues besides just again, like the, the real, you know, these are emotional, sensitive beings. Like imagine if we did that to dogs or cats, just how, how, how terrified they would be. Um, so, I mean, I don't know. I think, uh, like you say, though, I mean, there's so much that is considered standard industry practice that is, that's legal that leads to tremendous suffering.

11:43 That's tremendously cruel and we can't share it with who they really are. Um, and so we have to about who they are. I mean, like Jasmine, again, she was rescued from a factory farm over six years ago. Um, uh, you know, the typical age that these birds are sent to slaughter is six to eight weeks old. The birds in that crate in the video, they're six to eight weeks old max. They look older because they've been so genetically manipulated to grow so big that they appear to be almost like adults, but they're babies. I promised they were peeping. They were peeping like chicks peep. Um, and, um, they can have, uh, you know, like their lives, obviously like you said, the rest of them, the rest of them have all been sent to slaughter.

12:27 Whereas the four that Zoe rescued right there, they're getting to live the lives that they deserve to have. Um, I mean, Jasmine for one, again, this is like one bird, every single one. I see how she's nuzzling under your arm. She would stay. I mean, sometimes like, again, if there's like a good treat or something, she might, you know, decide she wants to go somewhere, but otherwise she'll just sit in my arms. Like when I go out into the yard, they all come over to me. They all want attention. They all want to have their little like heads rubbed and their cheeks rubbed. And they're just, they like to snuggle. I mean, they're so, and they, you know, and again, they all have these individual personalities. They're so much smarter than people know.

13:08 Um, you know, I did this film for you or with you. Um, and one of the chickens in that film, sunshine is we featured. And, um, she's one of the chickens who sleeps in the house at night. And like every night at bedtime, she comes, she goes outside during the day to be with her sisters. But every night at like dinnertime, she comes to the door and she waits for me, like on the dot, like she doesn't wear a watch, but she knows what time it is. And then I opened the door. I have to open like four doors. She just knows the whole way through the yard and then through the porch and then through the house. And she makes her way to her own little kennel. Uh, I mean, they're, they're so much smarter than, than people know. Um, and I think, you know, we have this like misconception that if they, if, if, uh, if they're, if they're stupid enough, then like they're suffering, then they can't suffer or something.

13:55 And that just doesn't make any sense. Like, like babies, babies can suffer. I mean, we know, you know, it's like, it doesn't make sense. And it's not true. Like, even if they were not smart, it wouldn't be okay to treat them the way that we treat them just as in the same way that it's not okay to treat, uh, you know, somebody with like a mental disability or a baby or, uh, you know, a senior, um, you know, you had mentioned dogs and what's interesting is, of course, there is as it, there should be an uproar about what some other societies and not very many, and there's animal rights movements in all those societies, but look what is done to these dogs going to market for food and Americans are outraged, screaming at the top of their lungs as they should be.

14:44 Right. But you make the point that chickens are not that different. We really want to draw the line at chickens. Final comment. I think I would, you know, reiterate what you said that, um, if you want, if we want to reduce the greatest amount of suffering as fast as possible, like just stop eating chickens, a lot of people, you know, they, as they're, as they see the, um, environmental implications and everything of eating meat, you know, they often want to, we'll start with the larger animals and that they end up eating more of the smaller animals, which means more animals dying and more suffering. Um, I think just, you know, to, to, to reiterate they're, they're sensitive, emotional beings with like rich inner lives and they don't want to suffer and they want to live.

15:29 And so just, um, give up eating chickens and you can do so much good. You can reduce so much suffering in the world. And before you go, can you just, just bring Jasmine a little closer to the camera so we can see her beautiful face. Yeah. Thank you Jasmine for being our very special guests. We have an exclusive with Jasmine, the chicken at the Sweet Peeps Animal Sanctuary in Alabama. Thank you so very much. Appreciate you. Appreciate you. All right. We're going to go out now to, back to Matthew. Okay. We've got 15 minutes till the start of the defense case.

16:11 Um, just give us a sense of the importance and the drama of this moment. Yeah. This is going to be the turning point where we get to talk about how the chickens were treated. What's like the situation that they found themselves in was immediately after the rescue. And so this is really where we get to talk about all the things we've been trying to get in. And it's very fortunate that we've been able to get in Zoe's, all of this is on the basis of Zoe's ability to say, I had a necessity defense. Now she's not allowed to argue in court that the necessity defense actually applies here.

16:52 The judge has ruled that it does not, unfortunately, but she does get to argue because she's being charged with conspiracy that her belief in necessity meant that she was not planning to do anything illegal. And that was because of her good faith belief that it was legal to rescue chickens when they're being abused. And for good faith belief that the chickens at the slaughter house were being abused. And so that's informed by the jury, the actual conditions of the chickens, which Carla will be able to testify to. And that's why all of that is able to be discussed in court. And it'll be really interesting to see how much of it gets to get thrown to the jury and what the jury will make of it.

17:35 Wow. Okay. This is very exciting. I want to bring in first our legal analyst, Justine Block. Now, one of the things that happened, of course, when the prosecution ends its case in chief, there is this opportunity before the defense starts for the defense to say, they didn't make their case, throw it all out. That's what the defense tried to do. The judge did not throw the case out, but he did make a ruling eliminating one of the aggravating factors. Can you tell us about that? Because that is a victory for the defense. Sure, Jane. What happened after the prosecution rested their case is that the defense asked for a directed verdict, basically saying that, would the judge acquit the defendant because the prosecution failed to present legally sufficient evidence to prove their case?

18:30 So as you mentioned, the judge did not acquit on the three charges that the defense brought up and had made arguments to ask for those charges to be dropped. It's very unusual, very rare that that would happen. So those charges, there's total of four charges. So those are still proceeding. However, there was a success, as you mentioned, on an aggravating factor. There were two aggravating factors and both of them relate to the felony conspiracy charge. And those are factors that are considered in sentencing. If Zoe is found guilty and convicted on felony conspiracy and those aggravating factors that the prosecution put in their complaint are one that the crime indicates planning, sophistication, or professionalism, the judge did not dismiss that factor.

19:25 And the second factor is inducement or leadership of co-conspirators. So the judge agreed with the defense that the prosecution didn't present enough evidence in their case to support that aggravating factor. However, he did leave a little room for the prosecution to bring it up again after the defense rests and for the judge to reconsider whether that aggravating factor would apply depending on the testimony presented by the witnesses. If Zoe testifies, it would be on her testimony and potential rebuttal witnesses as to that aggravating factor.

20:07 A very good summary. So it was a victory for the defense, but it could come back. The judge could reconsider. And basically the aggravating factor is she's a leader and she inspired others to commit crimes. And the judge said, no, there's not enough evidence to show that she was in any kind of leadership position. But after she testifies, after the defense case, they could come back and rebuttal. And I get the feeling because the prosecution only called, correct me if I'm wrong, three witnesses, a cop and two employees, that they're planning on some big monster rebuttal case. We'll see if that happens.

20:48 Certainly they're trying to think outside the box because other defendants in similar cases have been acquitted. Notably Alexandra Paul, the former Baywatch actress who also rescued a chicken. She was acquitted in another county. So they're changing the game up a little bit. So let me get to some really exciting news. Our reporter, Michelle Celestino with Unchained TV ran into Moby, the music icon over the weekend. And she asked him about this case and what he thought about it. And I've got his soundbite coming up here in a second. And where is it?

21:29 Just so you know, we have many, many soundbites that we accumulate here for, here it is. Let's listen to Moby. And essentially Moby is calling Zoe Rosenberg a hero. This is news. So the fact that the Chronicle and Yahoo News are covering it and calling it a chicken rescue trial, I think that's great. I mean, yeah, so it's people want to do the right things, but I feel like everyone's just so overwhelmed. He made a movie last summer and Zoe was in the movie. What I would say to Zoe, because I've never been in that situation, so I can't be so presumptuous as to say I understand it. But when you look at history, the number of people who've been where she is, the people who've been arrested and persecuted for their ethical beliefs, she's certainly in good historical company.

22:23 She's in company with Cesar Chavez and Martin Luther King Jr. and on and on and on with the suffragettes. So many people have been arrested for doing the right thing. So I don't know if there's any comfort in that, but she's certainly on the right side of history. And thank you to our reporter, Michelle Celestino, for getting that interview. Tiffany Brunelli, former law enforcement investigator turned Direct Action Everywhere member. What's your reaction to what Moby had to say? Oh, she's definitely on the right side of history. Just to put her up there with Martin Luther King and the others he mentioned.

23:07 Yes, I agree. She's on the right side of history. And I just keep thinking about the quote or what the responding officer said that when he was asked by the prosecution, you know, did you check the condition of these animals? The prosecution even used the word animals. I still can't get around why the responding officer said, called the chickens products. I just, I can't imagine if he responded to a call of child abuse or even like a fighting dog ring, would he say products? Did the prosecution prep him on that? Did he come up with that himself?

23:49 It's just so distancing from the whole scenario. Like why would I check the products? It's hard for me to get my mind around that. Well, also what stood out to me is that he had indicated that he didn't investigate the products, the animals, the sentient beings, because he was not aware of any issues surrounding them, which according to the defense he had in a previous hearing, like a preliminary hearing stated that he was aware of a controversy. But my point is you have to be living under a rock.

24:31 It's not like this is happening in New York city where there's five boroughs and 8 million people. This area is relatively small and everybody who lives there knows about direct action everywhere and the gazillion protests and open rescues and all sorts of events that have been happening in Northern California for years now. I'll just point to one here, a massive open rescue where the police showed up in force again in Northern California in this general region. How could you not know about the claims of direct action everywhere that they have tried to submit to law enforcement for decades, not decades, excuse me, for many years, let's say a half a decade, saying essentially that there is ongoing animal cruelty at all these factory farms.

25:36 Essentially, and correct me if I'm wrong, but what direct action everywhere is saying is the institution of factory farming itself is inherently cruel. Industrialized animal agriculture that kills 140,000 chickens every minute on this planet is inherently cruel. The systems are inherently cruel. I find it very hard to believe that any law enforcement officer could be living in that part of California and not be aware that there is a controversy over the treatment of animals in these industrialized facilities, whether it be the factory farm or the slaughterhouse.

26:22 I'm going to go back to you, Tiffany, because you are a member of direct action everywhere and you're a former law enforcement investigator. Yes, Jane, I think that was all a great point. I remember I was up there for Wayne's sentencing hearing and rally when Zoe and Rocky and others were arrested. They must have had at least 10 officers just swarm us just to do those simple arrests during a rally. I don't know if they were planning on, we were going to get violent, but they know it's not a violent group. How big can this police department be, Petaluma Police Department?

27:04 These are sheriffs here that we're looking at. By the way, the young man with the rose and the light green jacket, that is Rocky Chow. He's going to be one of the first witnesses. Then the other first witness is going to be Carla Cabral, who is a well-known animal activist in her own right. Yes, she has been arrested in a recent goat rescue. She is on the witness stand probably two minutes away from taking the stand right now as the first witness in the defense, the one who received the four chickens, we are told.

27:49 Obviously, I can't predict what's going to be said on the stand, but this is what's been reported. These are the four chickens who are living their best life now after having been rescued. This is the healthy version of them. Of course, the version that they're going to be talking about is the version of what happened to them minutes after this rescue. Carla Cabral is going to testify. The allegations are that they had scratches, they had bruises, they were traumatized, and they also had bacteria. We could hear from Carla Cabral as a defense witness.

28:29 Additionally, another witness is going to be Zoe Rosenberg's own mother. Zoe Rosenberg's own mother, the defendant's mother, is a veterinarian. She also is going to testify. As we bring this together, this all could happen before Zoe takes the stand. Just to recap and review, we're going to have Carla Cabral, we're going to have Rocky, we're going to have Dr. Rosenberg, Zoe's mother, and we may also have this woman.

29:13 Let me get to her image, Raven Deerbrook. She is a famed undercover investigator who is most notable for having gone into a pig slaughterhouse and been one of the only people on the planet to videotape the pig gas chambers, uncovering to the world that these pigs scream and writhe to death as they are slowly suffocated. Very different from the, oh, they just fall asleep peacefully storyline that the public has been given. These are hardcore, although nonviolent in the extreme, extreme in their nonviolence, animal cruelty investigators.

29:56 This woman literally risked her life. I interviewed her after that and she said she was just literally moments away. If she had not grabbed on one thing and pulled herself out, would have died in the gas chamber. It's fair to say that whatever you have to say about these folks, however you feel about them, they are courageous. Zoe Rosenberg is actually, in her own words, potentially risking her life as she has a lifelong from birth type one diabetes and a health problem that she was born with that requires her to have medication and all sorts of equipment that she was told, or she said that law enforcement told her that they can't always provide behind bars.

30:44 Let's listen to something else that Zoe had to say about the prosecution's case. Remember it was one law enforcement officer and two people who work for the company. And one was a woman. Let's listen to this. She testified that I caused about $28,000 in losses on June 13th and about $75 ,000 in losses on the following Saturday in overtime that they had to pay employees during cross-examination. She was asked about footage that was taken on the of birds flailing who clearly were not stunned properly. And she was a bit dodgy with those questions.

31:25 She also admitted that birds sometimes eat condemned chickens out of the dumpster, which is very concerning because wild birds can be getting sick from those chickens. In fact, a lot of the birds who are thrown in the dumpster are thrown in the dumpster because they are infected with concerning bacteria. So a couple of things, I'm going to go back to Tracy in a second to talk to her about this idea of the other birds, wildlife eating the condemned birds. But when it comes to money, Justine Block, you're our attorney. So they're saying it cost, I think she said $28,000 the night of, and then more from lost overtime for a total of almost $100,000.

32:12 What are your thoughts on that? I mean, how important is the money? I always say, follow the money. What's going on there with that witness's testimony for the prosecution is I'm gathering that the prosecution's trying to prove their elements of the crime of trespass Remember, there's two counts of trespass. And one of the trespass counts has to do with committing the trespass by entering lands for the purpose of injuring property or property rights with the intention of interfering or obstructing or injuring the lawful business.

32:56 And that's just part, I'm quoting part of the charge, because that's what the prosecution's trying to show is this action by Zoe on the property of removing the chickens interfered with their business. And so they are saying they suffered damages, financial damages. But from what I gathered on the expos about the back and forth, it's hard to say without hearing it myself, but it seems very weak in terms of the intent. So I'm looking forward to hearing what the defense witnesses say about about this about the situation and more about Zoe's intent because it she specifically what she wasn't going there to interfere with their business, she was going to rescue the chickens and keep them from from being they were sick.

33:52 So she you can see in the video where she's pulling out the chickens, she's sorting through to identify which ones are sick. And the defense's position, as I understand, has been to say, well, these chickens probably wouldn't have been slaughtered for food consumption. Anyway, if they're sick chickens, they are removed from the line, they may not even be stunned. And and they're suffering. If they're not stunned, they're hanging upside down and not and just stunned and flailing their arms or their wings are flailing. And so the argument and position, as I understand, is what the defense is trying to say is that these animals may not even been sold for food.

34:38 So how is that even interfering with their business if they're just discarding these animals, the sick birds into piles, they're not entering the food chain is one and then this particular witness that testified about the financial damages, she couldn't say that that particular truck that Zoe's at with the 4000 chickens didn't go through the slaughterhouse that day. So then they may not have this particular truck may not have caused them and what Zoe's did in that video may not have directly caused them any financial losses. So they couldn't really tie that truck. So the witness that they had didn't really seem to deliver what the prosecution was wanting.

35:19 So I thought the defense was able to poke a lot of holes in it. And to leave enough for a reasonable doubt. All the defense has to show is reasonable doubt. And and so I thought that was good for the defense. And we'll see more about how they present this today. You raise a really important point. All it takes is one juror and I want to go back to Tracy Glover who runs the Sweet Peeps Animal Sanctuary in Alabama. Are you still there? Is that Jasmine or is that somebody else? I had somebody else for a minute Satya but Satya was more interested in seeing what kind of treats she could find but Jasmine so Jasmine popped back up in my lap.

36:02 I didn't want to keep playing the chickens upside down over and over but I mean as you see again I think in a way this is a defense of the company itself. These are standard procedures. Industrialized animal agriculture is killing 75 excuse me now it's really 80 or even 82 or 90 however you count it land animals alone billion billion every year. Is there any way to this is what DXC says there's no nice way to kill an animal who doesn't want to die.

36:43 Is there any nice way to kill 80 or 90 billion animals every year or which amounts to approximately 140,000 chickens a minute on this planet all the companies included. This is I think the essence of the case. All systems that we're seeing here are not unique to any one company. Right I mean I think that's what makes the case so hard I think all around is that the company is trying to defend these standard practices that are inherently causing tremendous suffering like even if everything goes right they're causing you know not just the death of these animals who want to live like all of us do but there's just inherent suffering in the process and then you have these other instances like things like you know chickens being boiled alive or not being properly stunned before they're slaughtered and even though that's like not supposed to happen it's to your point about when you're killing this many animals and like you know and it's all about the bottom line right so the faster you can kill the more animals the more profit and that's what it's all about and the and the faster you you do and you know the more animals you kill the more animals

38:13 will fall through whatever minimal care standards are set up and even those minimal care standards ensure suffering but it's also a guarantee when the lines are running that fast that animals will not even get the the bare minimum protections and so things like being boiled alive will are happening even if it's a fraction of that total number it's millions it's probably hundreds of millions of animals who are suffering like they're not just being killed they are being tortured before they're killed and they are not products they're not widgets they're sweet individual beings like jasmine like even right now like little jasmine was like she kind of wants to get she was thinking about getting up my off my lap and i'm gonna let her if she wants to because i don't want her to for a moment to suffer um you know just just uh she's an individual being and her individual needs need to be considered um that's just like the foundation of a compassionate society of like a base a society that that reveres kindness at all and the industry is the antithesis of a good society of a society where we care for the vulnerable and the innocent where kindness and compassion are revered and that's the you know what's so um just just twisted about this case is like here's this brave young girl who is moved to this to take

39:47 that you know to risk her own liberty and safety to um protect these innocent beings she's moved by kindness and compassion and we are contemplating jailing her and i have to believe that most people would be on her side but then it's like you look at like you know what are the repercussions of acquitting her and like what does that say about the industry and you you can't escape the the larger questions about whether or not this industry should exist and i think you know if we believe in kindness if we believe in compassion and if we think suffering is wrong then this industry should not exist i mean first of all i want to say that you're talking about the industry in general the figures that we're talking about are the industry in general 140 000 chickens killed every minute globally there's 8.2 billion humans at least on this planet and um unfortunately meat consumption continues to rise and that's why this trial is such an important trial historically because chickens are again the number one animal killed and uh you know the last question i have to ask you is why is it that and do you see people change their attitude toward chickens when they come to your sanctuary because it seems that particularly chickens i mean i've had people say to me i don't eat meat i just eat chicken

41:17 uh they they just have a special quality there's there's a wall yeah people who've woken up about pigs and cows just aren't waking up about chickens yeah yeah i don't know what that is but i have to admit that i mean i think before i started caring for chickens i was vegan um i had been for like 15 years before i took in my first rescues but i still think that i felt more of a connection with the larger mammals you know i don't know if it's like that they have these big eyes or if there's some like can you know some more instinctive connection because they're mammals and chickens are are birds i don't know what that is but you know i also think sometimes too it's that thing of especially like you know the the chickens that we raise for meat um cornish crosses they're all these big white birds the ones we lay we we raise for eggs are mostly these small white birds but they all just look indistinct it's hard especially to you know you hear the numbers and it just they just become like an undifferentiated mass when people come here and i put jasmine or fanny or jojo eloise into somebody's arms and they meet them people are stunned like people i don't have a lot of visitors here because it's a small sanctuary it's my home and more than anything i want to make sure that the animals here are safe and feel comfortable and aren't stressed out but whenever anybody does come and they get to hold one of these chickens especially and again because they're all individuals right some don't want to be

42:48 held so i i basically you know i asked like do you want to be held and there are some like jasmine who who loves to be held by she had made anybody you know she just wants to be snuggled all the time and people come and they meet them and they go like oh my god i had no idea is this what chickens are like i'll never eat another chicken again and they don't um and um so i think it has has a lot to do with like we don't know who they are even to you know i mean it's not very common anymore that people like grow up on farms but even the people i know who've grown up on farms have had the you know they've had chickens as a product to be exploited and so they haven't treated them they haven't you know it hasn't been like the norm to treat them with the gentleness and kindness that you need to treat them with for them to earn your trust or to earn their trust and so i you know i think people will come and they'll say like oh every farm i've ever been at the chickens run away from you they don't run from you like no of course they don't run from me they run to me because they know i'm safe so i just i don't know i think people don't know them um and they're presented as this amorphous mass they don't you know they don't see them as individuals um but they are that's what you're providing for us is an opportunity to see them as individuals it was great to meet jasmine so great to talk to you i hope you come back as this trial progresses apparently it's going to go through the end of the month uh final thoughts from our attorney jazz justine block and then we'll go over to

44:18 tiffany i just want to address about the the terminology as far as referring to the birds as products remember the um about the officer referring to the chickens as products terminology is so important and we've talked about this on other live panels is that um not only was officer referring to them as products another witness talked about the facilities as processing facilities instead of a slaughterhouse she didn't even want to say the word slaughterhouse the defense had to really press her to even say the word slaughterhouse so or that the chickens are slaughtered that it's instead of processing facility so these terms are really important and now that um the defense is going to present their case the jury's going to hear the other side of um the side that we're seeing we were seeing with meeting jasmine today that the individual lives that they're not that chickens aren't just products they are lives and that the the law is behind i do want to make a second point is that if the law is considering chickens and other farm animals as property and that's what the law is reflecting that's what we're up against and you see it all coming to a head in this trial are the jurors gonna see the chickens as food or as individuals

45:50 that that shouldn't suffer and be harmed in this industry and that and that they'll see the whole other side of the chickens as individuals so look forward to seeing how this plays out all right thank you excellent points uh we're also very appreciative to have an attorney by the way i found out that um the owner of the sanctuary the chicken sanctuary is also an attorney so you're not going to get away from us that quickly tracy we need our attorneys all right tiffany tiffany your final thoughts for today and i just want to thank tracy and jasmine i've i have never really until the last couple of years when i've gone to sanctuaries i've never been around chickens i didn't know how sweet they are and that you can actually hold them and that they actually know people by sight or sound i had i had no idea just sitting here watching her with jasmine she's such a good chicken mama it just reminded me of when i try and hold my dog and he wants to get down or you just forget and then you keep hearing these words products and and it's just i want to thank her for being on with jasmine and i'm excited to see the defense's case and see what they can get through to the jury i think it's going to be a very exciting week i agree i think ultimately we have to get back to the consumers none of this would be happening if consumers weren't lining up to

47:21 eat chicken and um you know i realize that compassion is curiosity having the curiosity the courage to be curious about how that food that you like ends up on your plate and i drive like everybody else down my local miracle mile and people are lined up around the chicken especially and we all know that there are now ad campaigns that are so cynical featuring a cartoon cow saying eat more chicken um this is well i think it's sad honestly i think whoever came up with that campaign probably thinks they're very clever but i would say i feel sorry for them um and here's somebody saying prayers for zoe rosenberg um somebody said tracy is my friend thank you for doing this it's debbie's birthday by the way happy birthday debbie happy birthday debbie and guys keep coming back guys and gals uh we are mimicking what they do on core tv what they do on all the major networks covering trials as i used to do on major networks including core tv and cnn headline news hln but we don't have the reach we rely on the people watching to share share share share hit that share button and go down there and share to as many groups as possible because there's a woman who is actually facing half a decade behind bars and because she suffers

48:53 from lifelong illnesses it could potentially she says be fatal she's willing to do that i think we at at the very least can be willing to hit that share button over and over and over again we're going to see you next time we still don't know whether this crazy case where the days change i've covered many criminal charges i've trials i've never seen one work when we're going to start tomorrow is always up in the air but we know we're going to be back thursday possibly tomorrow but we're told thursday for sure so please just watch on unshamed tv as well as uh on facebook for when it's coming up next unshamed tv is a 501c3 non-profit news network for the sustainable plant-based lifestyle you can get it on your phone you can watch it online unshamed .tv it's absolutely free mostly volunteer run including myself a volunteer and we need your support so download unshamed tv it's right there on your phone it's on your tv it's on my tv behind me and there are two thousand more than two thousand videos about all aspects of this movement and lifestyle see you next time